The Packers Young Receivers are Really Good

Today's article features the Packers young wide receiver core and the progress they've made as a group this offseason.  

One encouraging sign from the offseason programs thus far has been the development of Aaron Rodgers young receiving core.  Last season the old guard was hammered with injuries forcing young receivers like Marquez-Valdes-Scantling, Equanimeous St. Brown, and Jake Kumerow to take meaningful snaps during the majority of the season.  

Their experiences both good and bad from 2018 seem to have paid dividends, and this trio of young receivers look poised to make significant gains in 2019.

Early reports have indicated Equanimeous St. Brown, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, and Jake Kumerow have all made strides in their development and are transitioning smoothly into Matt LaFleur's fresh, innovative offense.  

Aaron has not been able to overthrow MVS and has developed a lot of continuity and trust with Jake Kumerow while ESB and Geronimo Allison figure to have unlimited potential both inside and outside as well as on some jet sweep opportunities.  

I think it is safe to say from professor Rodgers assessment, that Jake Kumerow will be a premier target in the scramble drill, sideline throws, as well as in the red zone.  Translation: Kumerow is going to have a breakout season in 2019.    

As training camp approaches, many will write countless articles about the Packers wide receiver battle.  I am here to tell you, that the Packers wide receiver position battle is already sown up (barring injury).  Here is a pretty good indication of who the Packers will keep on their week 1 53 man roster:

Wide Receivers (6):

1. Davante Adams

2. Geronimo Allison

3. Marquez Valdes-Scantling

4. Equanimeous St. Brown

5. Jake Kumerow

6. J'Mon Moore* (Purely for depth and special teams) 

*Special Teams: Trevor Davis- I could see Trevor Davis seeing very personalized and limited receiver and jet sweep reps in LaFleur's offense. 

My Outlook:

All signs indicate a tremendous amount of growth from this young wide receiver core which could yield a top 5 offensive group in the very near future.    

-------------------

David Michalski is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @kilbas27dave 

NFL Categories: 
7 points
 

Comments (141)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Coldworld's picture

June 12, 2019 at 04:57 pm

Long way to go yet, not a pad in sight. It’s not that I disagree on the names, but the order could shift considerably.

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jannes bjornson's picture

June 12, 2019 at 06:16 pm

Six WRs will make the squad. A couple of them will be returning Kicks and/or punts. The seventh guy is taking up too much space. The defense needs the depth up front.

1 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

June 13, 2019 at 02:02 am

5/6 WRs: probably the six named in the article;
3 RBs: Jones, Jamaal, and there will be a 3rd guy;
3/4 TEs: Could go with 3. $550K to Lewis. Tonyan?
2/3 QBs: AR + Kizer and Boyle on the bubble, or both?
8/10 OL: LT, OC, RT, + Turner, Jenkins, Taylor. 2/4 more.
22/26: 24 is common, but GB has kept 25 and 26 on O.

RB: Dexter Williams, Bibbs? Carson?? Vitale??? At least 1.

No more than 3 additional offensive players, two of whom must be OL:

OL: Madison = good bet/bubble. Spriggs = bubble.
McCray, Patrick, Pankey, DeBeer, Nijman, Light.
QB: At least one of Kizer, Boyle. I'd keep both.
WR: Trevor Davis? Lazard?? Redding???

6/7 DL: Daniels, Clark, Lowry, Adams, Lancaster, Keke. Fadol?
2/3 ILB: Martinez, Burks. Really could use a 3rd guy.
4/5 OLB: Smith, Smith, Gary, Fackrell. 1 more?;
5 CBs: King, Alexander, Jackson, Tramon, Tony Brown;
3/5 S: Amos, Savage, Greene.
20/25

ILBs: Crawford, Bolton, Summers - at least 1
OLB: Gilbert, Donnerson, Roberts ($72K guaranteed).
DBs: Redmond, Jamerson, Hollman, Josh Jones,
DL: Looney????

Injuries are always a possibility. Picking up a player is possible. Apparently there are some rumors about trading Daniels. A trade or cutting of Josh Jones would be unsurprising.

4 points
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stockholder's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:16 am

6 wrs plus Davis=7, 3 TE. Graham, Jace, Bob or Lewis. 10 OL include Spriggs. 3 QBs Kizer , Bubble Boyle, 3 Rbs -= 26// Defense Line 6 Yours are fine. 3 ILBs Martinez Burks, Summers, OLBs 5 Donnerson over Gilbert. CBs 6 King, Alexander, Jackson, Tramon, Tony Brown; Hollman 4 = S include Jones! (Trade ??) Carpenter over Hollman if ready.

0 points
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Packers2020's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:18 am

Agree Cold

I also do not think we keep 7 WR's. Davis is gone or Moore is gone most likely.

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stockholder's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:28 am

I sure would Love to put a Bet on Davis staying.

2 points
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Jonathan Spader's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:16 pm

Davis really bombed it in 2018. Sorry bad airport joke.

4 points
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wildbill's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:25 pm

I am happy with our WR group, just praying Adams doesn’t get hurt

2 points
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Packers2020's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:21 am

Sorry Wildbill,

If we had a good WR group, we would have a #2 WR that could step in should Adams get hurt. We don't. We do not even have a #2 at this point.

I respectfully disagree with you.

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PeteK's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:19 am

Can't name a team that could replace an Adams with their #2 . Maybe hold it together for awhile.

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John30856's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:20 pm

Why would you even say that???

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Lare's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:25 pm

Let's face it, last season ended up being something of a lost season under the McCarthy regime. However, that ends up working in the favor of a number of young players (like the WRs) as giving them a year of NFL experience.

Looks to be a talented group, hopefully they'll do well. Will be interesting to see how they do in the LaFleur scheme.

5 points
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Bure9620's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:29 pm

Agree, loads of Talent here, I am still on the Equinemious St. Brown wagon, he is just a smooth athlete at 6'5" and he had one of the lowest drop rates, his "true catch" rate, yes there are metrics here, is over 80%. He is a massive athletic target. I predict St. Brown supplants Allinson as the primary slot player. Red zone matchup problem as well.

I would like to see a red zone spread look of Graham (6'7"), MVS (6'4") St. Brown (6'5") Kumerow (6'4") and Adams

11 points
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Tundraboy's picture

June 12, 2019 at 10:04 pm

I see the same in ESB.

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NJMagic's picture

June 12, 2019 at 10:45 pm

Smooth routes yes, athletic yes, but I don't see ESB highpointing the ball and fighting through catches in the air. If he can work on that aspect... 100% red zone threat.

0 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

June 12, 2019 at 11:09 pm

NJMagic,
Why do say that? What has given you any indication ESB cannot do this?

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PeteK's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:22 am

Take a look at last years stats and videos.

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Branden Burke's picture

June 15, 2019 at 08:52 am

Esb's downfalls are he is a little more finesse and his release isn't particularly good. Half of getting open in this league is route running (which he does ok) and release. The other half is scheme and physical ability. If he gets his footwork and release down, adds some upper body strength, he will do really well.

0 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

June 12, 2019 at 11:08 pm

Bure,
Agree immensely! I think ESB is going to surprise many around the NFL how good he is. He will have a great season!

0 points
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Freezn's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:40 am

I Believe we will have a very fast large set of receivers that will create a lot of problems for apposing secondaries. We are big fast and will really be an improvement this year.

0 points
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DavidMichalski's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:37 am

I also think ESB has a great second season. I think he has a chance to be a pro bowl caliber player. I also agree that he could supplant Geronimo as it seems there's always a hiccup with him at some point during the year. I think Aaron's gushing about Kumerow not only ends the debate about him making the team, but it also tells us he's going to get a lot of targets and have a chance for a big year. Finally, I think J'Mon Moore could be a casualty next year.

-1 points
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PeteK's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:48 am

ESB was behind MVS in all receiver categories last season, and that will be the same this season. Even with a small sample ,we could see that there was a connect with Kumerow and AR. I'm just glad all the young receivers got that rookie season under their belt and are ready to improve. Wishing for a group similar to Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones. Guard play and Bulaga will be keys to this offense exploding to top level.

0 points
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flackcatcher's picture

June 13, 2019 at 06:12 pm

Until I see this WR group in the new system, I am taking a wait and see stance. I would only add, because of their injury history, Kumerow and Davis may be on the bubble. Outside of that, unlike the defense which we saw last year, none of us know how the players will respond in the new offensive. (If Rodgers, for some reason goes full 'mad gunslinger route', then all bets are off-:)

0 points
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Branden Burke's picture

June 15, 2019 at 09:33 am

ESB will never be a pro bowl player until he masters his release and route running. If he can master those, then he can be great.

Ignore the terrible music and watch Adams 2018 to 2019 highlight video. It shows several routes. His mastery of route running and release is what makes him get open. His short area quickness is elite, even though his straight line speed is just average.

Then watch st. Browns highlight video. He relies purely on his physical ability. He has a poor release and just runs to open field, which works ok. Improved route running will force him open even when the coverage is tight. He is missing half of his toolbox. A pretty important part of it really. There have been offensive lineman that have outran Jarvis Landry in a straight line. His mastery of his release and route running is what makes him great. Antonio Brown and Donald driver both made careers from it. Gotta master it to go to the next level.

0 points
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DavidMichalski's picture

June 15, 2019 at 11:06 am

I think the key here is Davante's evolution. Believe it or not, people gave up on Davante after his second season, who's to say St. Brown doesn't continue to improve and develop into a pro bowl caliber receiver; as you said, he has the physical ability.

1 points
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Swisch's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:28 pm

The Packers churn out excellent wide receivers the way the state of Wisconsin churns out golden butter.
Now, once again, no margarinal talent here -- only the cream on the top.
Yes, there are a lot of maybes in the receiving corps (including tight end and running back), but I am exceedingly excited to see this offense develop into one of the best in the NFL as early as this season.
Aaron Rodgers is going to be rejuvenated, because his pass catchers are going to be on a roll.

6 points
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4thand1's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:34 pm

I'm not going to get overly optimistic, but it won't be easy this year. This team is loaded with talent.

2 points
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Bearmeat's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:37 pm

I'm really excited about the WRs. As long as Adams stays healthy, this is going to be - at the floor - an effective unit. And its ceiling is a unit that strikes fear into opposing DC's.

3 points
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IceBowl's picture

June 12, 2019 at 07:35 pm

Bearmeat,

Yes our WR's should be looking good to all of us, Great physical talents.

But what will "strikes fear into opposing DC's" is ARod deploying them.

5 points
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Bearmeat's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:37 pm

Right!

1 points
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Freezn's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:45 am

The fun part in all of this offseason stuff is that no one knows the packers new offense and I believe Aron will have a hay day with apposing defenses. As it will be a totally different offense and no tape to go on. WE will be feeding on defenses and our defense will be feeding on offenses. This will be a scary team to play

-1 points
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Since'61's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:38 pm

Only 3 more months of Hype to go. Hype, hype and more hype. Thanks, Since ‘61

7 points
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IceBowl's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:43 pm

Since '61,

Plenty of time for a trip to "Wonderland." Let's go!

0 points
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Tundraboy's picture

June 12, 2019 at 10:06 pm

True only hype. But sure beats the last few years.

3 points
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Guam's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:41 pm

I love the optimism, but it is still the underwear season. I will be more impressed if they perform as advertised when the pads are on. Hopefully we see a similar article late in August...….

5 points
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Wilment's picture

June 12, 2019 at 05:53 pm

I think our wide receiving core group could be excellent. Their fortunes will mirror the ability of the oline to keep Aaron upright....upright healthy Aaron Rodgers is the key.

7 points
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jeepingmakooi's picture

June 12, 2019 at 06:11 pm

Chuuuu chuuuu hype train.comjng through.. I'm on board though

0 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

June 12, 2019 at 06:47 pm

Great to know Aaron's core is looking so good. I'd read he was doing heavy ab work in the offseason. Also, fantastic news that the battle is already sown up even if many will write countless articles about it. As they reap, so shall they sow, and count, I guess.

Anybody know how Trubisky's core looks? Is he able to sew?

-5 points
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DavidMichalski's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:48 am

Glad to see you haven't lost your hard-on for me ;) We all know Trubisky's core is busy chugging beers

-2 points
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CoachJV's picture

June 12, 2019 at 06:52 pm

I'm not blasting the author... but Kumero saw NO meaningful snaps last season. He F'd up his shoulder while showing off and missed all of the season until like... what... Week 15 or 16??

Otherwise, good article. I love that these young guys are coming on strong. Not convinced on Davis... we'll see.

GPG!

3 points
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TheBigCheeze's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:31 pm

JV...what matters is that Kumerow looked great from what few opportunities he had....stop the hate.....

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IceBowl's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:46 pm

TheBigCheeze,

I've not seen Kumerow look bad. Not last year. And now ARod talks him up even more.

He does the little things, and catches the ball.

4 points
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John30856's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:25 pm

Agrred cheese. some just have to be negative and worry. Yep lots could happen lol

0 points
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DavidMichalski's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:43 am

I think your point is valid, however, when Aaron spends a minute gushing about all of the little things he does...that speaks volumes to me. Aaron is so particular and detail oriented that I think Kumerow having a big season is now a real possibility.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 11:51 am

I see Kumerow as being the second Allison. Neither are uniquely physically gifted at this level but both have a feel for where to be to get open and react as plays unfold.

I think Allison is the younger of the two. My one concern is whether we need two of that type in the roster. I think the second is the ideal last WR (excluding any return specialist) if we did keep 2, but if Davies makes it as a WR, one may not as the pipeline needs to be based on upside and youth, at both returner and WR.

We won’t see how the competition is really shaking out till the pads go on, plays are contested and the return competition really gets going in camp.

0 points
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Sean-Luc Shanahan's picture

June 12, 2019 at 07:28 pm

I think Davis could nab moore’s Spot. If Moore doesn’t show up at training camp he could be cut

1 points
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Jonathan Spader's picture

June 12, 2019 at 09:17 pm

Davis is in a conteact year Moore is in year 2. You're not going to cut Moore for Davis unless Davis really does well and Moore really does poorly. I think Moore will surprise Packer fans like you that have already given up on him.

6 points
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2
Guam's picture

June 13, 2019 at 07:18 am

Agree JS. I am not a Moore fan, but he will have to play his way off the roster for the Packers to give up on a second year guy with his measurables. Davis is much more vulnerable to being cut as he has had time to demonstrate his potential and largely failed to date.

4 points
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Handsback's picture

June 13, 2019 at 07:40 am

As was pointed out to me on another site....both Davis and Moore were both picks that the coaches knew would take time to develop. Weather Davis is in a contract year or not, he knows this is his last opportunity to make this team. Can he stay healthy and contribute to ST and be in the mix for a WR position.
Moore is a high draft pick that didn't show much at all last year. This year, he hasn't made any impressions that people want to write about...not good. At least with Davis he was always penciled in on STs as a returner. Moore isn't a returner at this point. So does Green Bay get rid of a contributor, Davis, and have that spot taken by a non-contributor-Moore? To me it's a numbers game. There are 53 of them and you have to beat out players to nab a spot. Moore has to not only beat out Davis, but also another ILB or CB. This debate will continue until TC seperates the players and maybe Moore can turn it on then. One thing he has going for him....Davis always looks great in shorts and disappoints in pads.

4 points
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marpag1's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:41 am

"I think Moore will surprise Packer fans like you that have already given up on him."

I have no reason to give up on Moore since he is under a rookie contract and we have nothing to lose by letting him show his stuff in training camp. But it's hard to overstate just how disappointing his first year was. In a year that was wide open for young receivers to see action, Moore took 74 offensive snaps, and was targeted only 3 times. He caught two passes for 15 yards, and one of those he fumbled. If he wants to make the roster, he darn well better surprise a few people...

3 points
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Packers2020's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:28 am

I think both Davis and Moore could be cut and we keep an extra TE. Special Teams will be key.

We can all speculate but it is not just about what the 5th and 6th WR's can do at WR. It comes down to ST's. They both could get cut. And David could definitely make the team and Moore not make it.

We are not in the TT era anymore my friends.

-2 points
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Branden Burke's picture

June 15, 2019 at 11:39 am

Davis stinks at route running and footwork. Cal pretty much only used him on screens and streaks, and as a kick returner. And that's part of the reason his transition has been bad. He didn't really have to get himself open in college. It was his speed and poor defensive discipline. That's one area that Moore is light-years ahead of him in and why he is the much better prospect. He has Adams potential. Just needs to get it to click upstairs

0 points
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stockholder's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:42 am

(Really does poorly) Thats it! Allison, Kumero, and Moore are your bubble Wrs. The Ceiling maybe reached. Davis will get one more year because of his return ability. St.Brown and MVS must show the rookie mistakes are over.

-2 points
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Sean-Luc Shanahan's picture

June 12, 2019 at 07:28 pm

I think Davis could nab moore’s Spot. If Moore doesn’t show up at training camp he could be cut

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Adorabelle's picture

June 12, 2019 at 07:35 pm

Mr. Rodgers like Jake Kumerow. That bodes well for Jake Kumerow.

6 points
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Qoojo's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:03 pm

Not sure how anyone can get excited about glowing reports in mini-camps. Wait till the pads are on, and it's against 1s and 2s.

5 points
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IceBowl's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:27 pm

Qoojo,

This is a glowing reports sight. Aren't you glowing??

2 points
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Swisch's picture

June 12, 2019 at 09:45 pm

Although it's indeed incomplete, wide receiver is perhaps the best position to evaluate without the pads on.

1 points
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4thand1's picture

June 12, 2019 at 10:23 pm

Nobody glows, budda book budda boom

1 points
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IceBowl's picture

June 12, 2019 at 10:34 pm

4thand1,

"Nobody glows?" Here, now???? You disappoint me.

I am glowing!!!!!! "budda book budda boom" Happily.

Go CHTV!!!!

-1 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 06:49 am

In some ways, such as route running, but since there is no physicality, it doesn’t address how players deal with bumping, redirection and contested catches. Smaller receivers often shine as a result.

3 points
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Handsback's picture

June 13, 2019 at 07:41 am

So true......

1 points
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BoCallahan's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:49 pm

By the way, whatever happened to OldSchool? Did he get run off because he resorted to reason as opposed to good ol’ optimism, hype, and positive thinking?

-6 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 12, 2019 at 10:15 pm

Lol, just not facts or coherence

0 points
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IceBowl's picture

June 12, 2019 at 10:20 pm

BoCallahan,

You say ..... "By the way, whatever happened to OldSchool? Did he get run off because he resorted to reason as opposed to good ol’ optimism, hype, and positive thinking?"

Isn't that way of thinking just the same as your post???

-2 points
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BoCallahan's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:51 am

IB, I will have to admit, OS has a different way of looking at things. As I read through his conclusions I see that he has based them on detailed, subjective, reasoning. I may not agree with many of his conclusions but nonetheless, I know he has invested the time developing them. I enjoy reading them because they make me think about the game outside of my box.
As for me, I am an optimist. I am always looking for the best in a player and hoping all 53 make it to Canton. I would make a terrible GM. I have never cheered for any other team. If the Pack isn’t in the Super Bowl, I don’t watch it. Half out of anger and half out of disregard for any team not wearing green and gold. Yes, I willingly drink the cool aid!
I am a former basketball coach. I watch bb, not as a fan but as a coach. I try to diagnose the opposing coach and see if I can match or trump his movements. The players become chess pieces in the coach’s hand. I see OS doing the same thing with regard to football.
There is a danger in thinking like this. You can begin to trust your scheme more than you do your players. I believe this is the trap MM fell into. The result is that you fail to to change your scheme with the times.
Sorry for the rambling thoughts. It’s 4am.

4 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

June 13, 2019 at 06:00 am

Bo,
4 am or not well written! I am an old BB coach and I do exactly what you state as well.

1 points
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Demon's picture

June 13, 2019 at 12:32 am

Ive never seen anything reasonable from Old School. I would guess that he is seatching for some more useless stats to back up his next his wrong assessment of the Packers. When your opinions are as dumb as his are, that takes time.

-4 points
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IceBowl's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:23 pm

Demon,

By you own statement you must be blind!!!

-1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:46 am

Bo, I'm spending more time at another site which prohibits personal attacks. I have to admit, the incessant attacks by Demon/Samson are wearing on me.....I come here to talk football, not to engage in personal insults.

The owner of this site should disable the downvote feature, and warn people that engage in non-football discussions and personal attacks that they're going to be given timeouts. But this is his site and he can do what he wants.

I don't know which is worse : People who think that when you call a fact a stat it becomes untrue, or the people who aren't able to understand your argument (usually because they haven't read carefully) and so just attack instead.

The other day Demon said that I had said Rodgers sucked. Not true. And I corrected the record, and said that I think Rodgers is an above average QB. It got six downvotes. No explanations, no points made, no reasons....just six downvotes. Why?

So I'm spending more time elsewhere, and less here.

2 points
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dobber's picture

June 13, 2019 at 10:56 am

I agree that naming names and shaming names shouldn't happen here. In comparison to other boards, the discourse here is fairly civil, and many of us just don't read or respond to posts by people who we feel live too far on the personal/chest-thumping side.

In the pre-AllGBP/CHTV merger days, a change was made tagging the up and down votes with the name of the voter. It almost immediately eliminated down votes. People have asked for that here and I would certainly be in favor of it. In all honesty, I don't see any reason why a vote up or down can't stand by itself--if you want someone to explain a down vote, they should also explain an upvote...but if numbers of up and down votes mean that much to someone, they should probably examine why they're posting in the first place.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:01 pm

“...but if numbers of up and down votes mean that much to someone, they should probably examine why they're posting in the first place.”

Spot on. If you post to be popular, you aren’t posting because you have something worth saying. If you feel strongly, who cares that it’s not popular.

In my experience, serious consistent downvoting requires rudeness, contradictory assertions, misrepresentation of what you or others said or simply repeating obviously disproved assertions.

If I strongly disagree, I have no issue saying so and why. If I merely dislike the sentiment or manner I may downvote. Sometimes, when downvoted, I take that as a compliment, and sometimes I am surprised. Mostly what I look for is debate or an interesting idea or perspective. Sometimes we are all wrong and sometimes a comment triggers a different perspective or even change of view!

This get rid of the downvote thing goes against part of the character of this site. I hope it stays as it is. This is a way too medals-for-turning-up type issue for my liking.

4 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 11:58 am

I suspect you got the down votes for stating that Rodgers was just average, a theme of yours that has garnered a similar reaction before.

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:29 pm

Actually, I said he was ABOVE average, which fits my theme that some people are not good readers, and that people are what they want to see.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:13 pm

It’s the way you said it. For one who likes to complain that he is not read, you certainly like to take that liberty with others. Again, perhaps why you are getting negative reactions.

You made it clear that you do not believe that Rodgers is an elite QB but instead was “above average.” Are you surprised you got down votes or rebuttals?

Moreover, you now take two words out of context to alter the meaning of your original longer argument to assert that you were not read properly. Allow me to disabuse you, It was by others and by me, and well enough to know what your arguments and statements were.

You are entitled to your view. I disagree with it, but if you are going to defend it, don’t misrepresent it and don't be surprised it’s not popular here or elsewhere.

No down vote, and yet again an explanation.

0 points
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IceBowl's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:34 pm

This "downvote" argument is pretty silly.

It is just an opinion. We go back and forth with opinions throughout the whole blog. Some agree, some have other opinions. I made a silly post about Jordy being a diva. I got hammered with downvotes, but I had a fun experiment/experience. I did not take a hit to my retirement.

Blogs are opinion. They give every mothers son a place to spout off. In prison or on top of the world. Still opinion.

I get it that all don't agree, as I have expressed many times, but attacking each other is a child's prank. In the anonymity here, that will always be a factor.

"Bat shields up Robin."

0 points
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John30856's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:31 pm

Rodgers had a much better than average season last year. Just below his standards

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 02:49 pm

20th in Quarterback rating, 13th in passer rating. 18th in yards/attempt. 21st in TD percentage. 4th in yards lost by sacks.

None of that scream "much better than average". Best in the league at protecting he ball, but overall.....better than average, but not by a lot.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:14 pm

There you go. Busted leg, did you factor that?

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 02:49 pm

Duplicate

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John30856's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:29 pm

no reason, at this point, not to be optimistic

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IceBowl's picture

June 12, 2019 at 08:57 pm

OldSchool is still here, as of this morning.

We all get a vacation you know.

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Turophile's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:49 am

The two biggest groups of players on the offense (WRs and OL) are first stocked up, then given time to ascend to starter level. If they show some talent they are kept for a few years to bring on.

OL like Madison, McCray, Patrick, Pankey, Spriggs are brought on with the hope that one becomes a Lane Taylor type, able to eventually step in. Packers sometimes roll the dice on raw players, based on them being superior athletes, like Amichia, and they get a chance on that basis, but if they cannot develop quickly, they are soon gone.

Same applies to WR like Valdez-Scantling, St.Brown, Moore, Kumerow, Allison, Davis. Earlier WR stock-ups (Yancey, Dupre) didn't yield much and were discarded quite quickly, but from the current group, MVS, ESB, Kumerow Allison all have shown enough signs of being worth keeping (though Kumerow and Allison may end up fighting over one spot).

Davis is also a possible keeper as a WR/returner. His being kept may hinge on whether he looks a viable backup receiver, to pair with his return game.

D.Adams + Allison + MVS + ESB + Kumerow + Davis (if the Packers go that way) leaves Moore hoping 7 WRs are kept.

Because you often don't really know what you have until the developing players have had a little time to develop, it's hard to determine the best policy when this years cutdown to 53 comes. Will it be 5 WRs or 6, or 7 ? My current guess is 6/7 because so many are showing signs of being keepers.

3 points
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DavidMichalski's picture

June 13, 2019 at 08:57 am

I understand the skepticism of early mini-camp gushing, I myself wrote an article a couple of weeks ago telling everyone to pump the breaks. However, when Aaron spends a minute talking mostly about the fine details of one of his young receivers and the coach backs it up, I tend to take more weight in that assessment which is why I am buying in on Kumerow and the young wideouts. If the Packers strike gold it tends to be with wide receivers.

2 points
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SterlingSharpe's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:22 am

Yeah I agree, but Rodgers gushed about Kumerow last year too.

Look, I believe if Kumerow was forced to start and play most of the game, and Rodgers wanted to, he could get Kumerow into becoming an Adam Thielen type of producer. I think Jake has that much ability.

But Rodgers is too set on looking #17 way so often. And then Allison.... he has a pecking order and it's worked for him obviously.

I am old enough to remember 1996 when we lost Brooks & Freeman (this after losing Sterling in 1994). The cupboard was bare. The WRs struggled so bad we sucked in the middle of 96 with no WRs so much so that we had to bring in Andre Rison, which saved the season.

I just think if that happened now, I believe if forced, he'd trust and go to Kumerow enough he could get 5 catches a game easily.

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marpag1's picture

June 13, 2019 at 10:38 am

"... but Rodgers gushed about Kumerow last year too."

Also, there was that man-crush he had on Jared Abbrederis, which didn't really pan out either.

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John30856's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:32 pm

Guess you forgot Kumerow was hurt most of last year

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:26 pm

But players aren’t coaches.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:53 am

David, the cure for this minicamp gushing is simple: Focus on the only question that matters, "have we closed the gap between us and Chicago"?

They were the #1 defense last year, they won 12 games and the division. Trubisky was #2 in QB rankings and their drive success rate was one of the best in the league.

Did they get worse in the offseason? Better? Have we closed the gap enough? Because if we haven't, we're not winning the division and probably not going to the playoffs.

We were 1-5 in the division and were a narrow hair away from being 0-6 in the division. Our hopes for a better running game rest on the legs of a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy more than half a season. We have no backup QB, and without Adams our WR corps looks pretty pedestrian.

That's why I'm not gushing. Yes, it's nice to see the players working out and looking good, but the same thing is true of all 32 teams. We're going to find out in the Opener how good we are. Or aren't.

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marpag1's picture

June 13, 2019 at 10:27 am

Um....so the fact that players look good in practice has nothing to do with the question of whether or not we've closed the gap with Chicago? How do you talk about closing the gap without talking about the quality of your players?

2 points
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dobber's picture

June 13, 2019 at 10:57 am

"David, the cure for this minicamp gushing is simple: Focus on the only question that matters, "have we closed the gap between us and Chicago"?"

The only way you can answer the question is to play the games.

That makes the off-season pretty dull.

3 points
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Demon's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:03 pm

Our hopes for a better running game rest on the legs of a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy more than half a season.

Where did you find that stat? You cant be referring to Jones. In 2017 Jones carried the ball in 10 games. In 2018 he carried the ball in 12 games after serving a 2 game suspension. By my math Jones was healthy for 24 of 32 games. Granted he isnt Walter Payton but he hasnt missed half his games either.

If Jones truly had missed 50% of his games you would have a point. But he has'nt so you dont.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:40 pm

Duplicate

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:40 pm

Demon, with his own set of useless facts!!

By my math, 10 + 12= 22, not 24.

Two seasons, 214 rushes, 35 receptions. Available for 68% of his games. If you consider was knocked out of two games it's even less. Has never played a full season, even as a part-time player.

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Demon's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:10 pm

You misunderstood. Jones was not injured the first 2 games last year he was suspended.

In 2017 Jones carried the ball in 10 games. If you remember correctly Montgomery started games early in the season. Jones didnt play until after Montgomery and Williams got hurt.

You claim Jones to be injury prone and a part time player, yet you banged the drum loudly to bring Nick Perry back this year. Last I heard Perry was auditioning for Charmin commercials on TV.

3 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 03:07 pm

Doplicate

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 03:03 pm

I didn't say he was injured. He was unavailable.

Perry's career availability compares quite well with Jones. Jones has been available for 68% of games over his career, Perry at 72%.

Perry also took over 800 snaps the last two seasons,more than twice as many as Jones.

Read carefully: Jones is less durable than Nick Perry.

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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:16 pm

If we are getting pedantic, absence for reasons other than health does not equate to durability.

2 points
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Demon's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:56 pm

Thank you coldworld.

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Demon's picture

June 13, 2019 at 05:09 pm

OS I think it ironic that you get all butt hurt about being down voted. You claim you're the victim of insults, harassment and peronal attacks. Yet you have insulted my intelligence or reading comprehension how many times?

And you sir are the one whom roughly a month ago called another poster a dumbass. Anyone else remember that? Then you want the owners/moderators of CHTV to feel sorry for you and remove the upvote or down vote buttons because it hurts your feelings Grow a pair buddy!

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 06:00 pm

When you repeatedly misstated what I've said, what am I supposed to think? When you tell me facts are irrelevant, what am I supposed to think? When you tell me that 10 + 12=24, what am I supposed to think?

My feelings have nothing to do with the downvote. I think it encourages negativity and discourages expressing unpopular opinions.

And please stop obsessing on my nuts; you've done this a couple of times now and I think it's weird

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Demon's picture

June 13, 2019 at 06:14 pm

Just wow yeah you need CHTV to feel sorry for you. You're the victim.

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IceBowl's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:48 pm

Demon,

I would agree with OldSchools post at that time and post. The post was as he said. As are many others here. That is what a blog offers, every mothers son has an anonymous voice to spout whatever. And they sure do!!!!!

Just like you Demon!!

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Coldworld's picture

June 14, 2019 at 10:42 am

Really don’t see the problem as long as one is civil. We are all dumbasses in comparison to the professionals. If you hate this post, it doesn’t make me regret it. Negative or positive votes are like a canvas of reactions. I find those results interesting. It’s one of the distinctive features of this site for me. Like it, want to keep it as I see value in it.

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Coldworld's picture

June 14, 2019 at 10:50 am

We live in a world already too afraid of contrary feedback. I like the down as well as up vote feature. It’s one of the distinctive features of this site for me.

If someone doesn’t like what I say, let them down vote. I see the results as an indication of gut sentiment and that is interesting in itself. Moreover, if I express a view, I am throwing it out there for others to chew on and react to. Why else. It’s not like the folks at Lombardi care what we write. They know we are all dumbass couch commentators to a person.

Vote me up, vote me down, I’ll rake either over the 0/0 meh. I’d hope others take the same view as it fosters lively discussion. But if we throw an opinion out, we have to accept that others may disagree. If one is not up for that, probably shouldn’t post.

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Samson's picture

June 13, 2019 at 02:56 pm

Demon
Don't hurt yourself trying reason with Old School. --- He's only here to argue with whoever will take the time to argue with him.... He has what psychiatrists call the "contrarian complex".... To him, what's light is dark, what's sunny is cloudy, what's right is wrong, and so on....Somehow, someway, Old School needs to leave the dark & come into the light.

Old School will be eating a kitchen full of crow when GB overwhelms the NFL in season 2019.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 03:07 pm

Yet another Samson post that is not about football but is just a personal attack on another poster, 100%.

And then he downvoted me and upvoted himself.

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Samson's picture

June 13, 2019 at 03:16 pm

My mistake.
Another invitation to you..... Come out of the dark & into the light.
TT's gone. MM's gone. Joe Philbin isn't a HC anywhere. GB didn't draft Drew Lock to BU AR.... and on & on & on.

Comprende, Se·ñor?

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 03:48 pm

I have no idea what point you are trying tomake, if any.

2 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 11:54 am

So did I get downvoted here because I didn't understand something? I mean, saying you don't understand is something that should be downvoted?

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Demon's picture

June 13, 2019 at 07:44 pm

Samson, and dont forget that Gute did not trade down like P.O.S. has told us several times that he would.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 11:53 am

Ok, if that’s the way you want it. I tried to be civil. You're pretty brave behind that keyboard. IF you called me a P.O.S to my face I'd send you to the hospital, guaranteed. It's pretty sad when a punk like you is calling a Packer fan of 50 years and a veteran to boot a P.O.S. because he disagrees with you.

Eat shit and die you little piss ant. If you'd like to discuss this in person, I'll pay your travel expenses to San Antonio.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 11:59 am

In 2010, after Vikings had gone to the NFC Championship game the previous year, the Daily Norseman, Chris Gates, talked about how the Vikings were the clear class of the division and would overwhelm the NFC on their way to the Super Bowl.

Let the record show that didn't happen. In fact, Minnesota only had one winning season out of the next five and didn't win a playoff game again until 2017.

So I'm going to file your "overwhelm" comment away and bring it back at the end of the season. We'll see who eats the crow.

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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 12:05 pm

Old School Is correct, we won’t know anything about individuals until the pads are on and the young players ready to compete.

What I disagree with him on is that one can’t look at what the overall roster and philosophy indicates, for example depth, TE use, formation concepts. That and the coaching attitude is exciting as is the raw potential. We should learn more as Camp progresses.

We will learn more as the first games occur, but expect this to be a work in progress. New and young players in a new system (in effect on both sides of the ball). May not start to pay dividends till well into the season.

2 points
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DavidMichalski's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:08 pm

Old School,

I'm going to be focusing on positional groups I think have improved then bring the complete picture together towards the end of the offseason. Long story short, I think the team is improved, and I could see anywhere in between 8-8 and 10-6 (if everything fell perfectly) more likely I'm thinking 8-8, 9-7. I think with another draft and another free agent or two 2020 could be the year the Packers are a legitimate contender.

As far as addressing Trubisky, Pro Football Focus has him ranked 30th with a grade of 60.3. I personally think he's a mid to upper 20's QB who has a great coach calling plays in Nagy bc he accentuates safe routes, creative formations, and plays to Mitch's strengths. The Bears' defense, there's no argument it is significantly better than the Packers. Obviously, that doesn't mean Rodgers won't light them up but over the course of 16 games, I still give them the edge.

Right now I'd probably go with:

Bears 10-6, 11-5
Vikings 9-7, 10-6
Packers 8-8, 9-7
Detroit 7-9

In my opinion, the NFC North could be one of, if not the toughest divisions in football.

2 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 02:41 pm

David, I think we've improved, too. But not enough, especially if anything goes wrong.

As regards Trubiskey, I think he's being underestimated. You said that PFF had him at #30, but you neglected to mention in what measure.

In his second year in the league, he started 14 games and went 11-3. His passer rating was 16th. His QB rating was 4th. His net yards/attempt was 13th. He was 12th in the percentage of his passes that ended up in the endzone.

He's probably going to improve.

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Tundraboy's picture

June 13, 2019 at 03:03 pm

And for all those gaudy stats,how far did that take the Bares?

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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 03:05 pm

Farther than Rodgers took the Packers.

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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 04:22 pm

Two legs good one leg bad.

Seriously, if I hadn’t read Old School’s posts in prior years i’d think he was a Bears’ troll just reading recent chains.

3 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 13, 2019 at 06:03 pm

Yeah. Amazing that young legs don't get injured as much.

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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 06:41 pm

Quite a lot of young QB injuries, though I take your point.

The thing is, has nothing to do with my point that it is a highly relevant factor in the discussion of Rodgers’ performance last year.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 08:37 am

And the year before. And 2013. And 2015 it was His favorite receiver who was hurt.

Yes, under laboratory conditions where everybody is healthy, Rodgers is an outstanding QB. In the real world, he was a little better than average the last two years.

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Coldworld's picture

June 14, 2019 at 10:53 am

You seem to expect miracles from Rodgers. He is not so miraculous as to be unaffected by the quality of the team around him.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 11:50 am

Unlike all the other QBs in the league? Were any other QBs in the league affected by the team around him? Did 18 other QBs have better teams around them? A top WR, a Top LT, one of the Top TEs in the league, and one of the best rushing yards/attempt backfields in the league. But I guess he needs more, huh?

If it's all about the team around them, what do we need Rodgers for? Why not just get a scrub for a lot less money and put a team around him?

Miracles? No. Throw passes to receivers when they're open instead of hanging onto the ball for a sack that kills the drive. Does that take a miracle? I don't think so.

0 points
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dobber's picture

June 14, 2019 at 05:50 am

It always seems to me that QB injuries are far more a function of QBs getting hit than QBs traveling around the sun a few more times.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 08:45 am

I don’t know how old you are Dobber, but I assure you those trips around the sun count. That’s why the NFL doesn’t have a bunch of 50 year olds.

You get injured more easily. You heal more slowly. Ask any doctor.

Brady gets hit. So does Brees. Not every body holds up as well as Favre. Two broken bones in the last 2 years vs. two in the 10 previous years? And a concussion, too? And you don’t think age is a significant factor?

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dobber's picture

June 14, 2019 at 09:16 am

Older than you might think.

As I re-read my post, it wasn't worded very well, but really my point was that the OL improvements and an offense that relies more on timing and less on his improvisation will have a lot to do with the health of #12. Non-contact injuries happen to QBs, but not terribly often. As you look at #12's injuries over the years, many have occurred when he's been out of the pocket extending plays. That's part of what makes him special, but he's got to be mindful of the fact that he's not going to outrun defenders like he used to.

I would argue that age points to his getting caught more, but is unlikely yet to be a contributor to broken bones themselves. Bone strength might change some over his career, but for someone who is regularly involved in weight training and good nutrition, it's unlikely that his bone strength has changed enough that the injuries he's sustained as a result of those impacts would have been avoided in his 20s.

I'm still not convinced that they've adequately addressed OT and OT depth.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 14, 2019 at 11:00 am

On your OT point, I think that you may be correct, but one can’t do everything at once. Next year is supposedly a good OT draft, this year supposedly was not.

I don’t know about Turner. I know some Broncos fans who think he has what it takes to be a tackle based on his pass pro last year, but that still leaves us with Spriggs. That is perhaps better than most teams, many of whom have questions about their starter(s).

I wonder if Nijman and de Beer might be the kernel of a future solution. Both are physically and athletically impressive but raw. Nijman will be someone I will be watching in camp for sure.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 11:45 am

I agree about the improvements in the O-line. I think the O-line situation is a lot better than it was a year ago.

For example, at RT, a year ago, we had Bulaga coming back from a big injury and surgery and rehab. This year, he comes in healthy.

We also have three new guys. Turner is a proven NFL player, Jenkins brings a lot of versatility and talent to the interior, and Cole may push Spriggs for the remaining gameday active spot. We're healthier, and deeper, than we were a year ago at this time.

I also agree that if Rodgers could stay in the pocket more.....like Brady and Brees….and improvise less, it would probably lessen the odds of him taking the big hits. But I'm not really optimistic about this. Just like our previous QB was kind of hard-wired to force stuff under pressure, this QB seems hard-wired to try to hit the big play downfield instead of resorting to check downs. We'll find out soon enough and I hope I'm wrong.

The bone density stuff......I think 4 broken bones tells us that he doesn't have bones that are really break-resistant. And the three concussions worry me, too, since every concussion you take makes the next one more likely. I remember Troy Aikman taking a bunch in a short period of time and that was the end of the deal. He went from being a top QB to being out of the league by the time he was 35. And he had a pretty good line in front of him, too.

As I've said before, I think Gutekunst is running an enormous gamble by placing all of his eggs in the Rodgers basket.

0 points
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Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

June 14, 2019 at 08:51 am

Hey OS. I enjoy your posts, but if you live and die by the grounding of your arguments in statistics you need to get them right. I’m not going to check up on most of them, but the easy ones like division record kind of stick out. We were 1-4-1 last year and a (very) bad call from being 2-4. Not great of course, but not the 1-5 you say.

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Leatherhead's picture

June 14, 2019 at 11:35 am

You are right. We were one bad call from being 2-4. And one fantastic 4th quarter comeback from being 0-5-1. I forgot about the tie and was remembering that we only won one game in the division.

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CalPacker's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:09 pm

I agree. Can we all just say, once and for all, the proof is in the pudding--and just leave it at that? Yes, it's early, but we're fans, which means we're all interested in early indications of what kind of year we can expect. If I recall correctly, last year at this time there was very little positive talk coming from the players--so there's that.

1 points
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Rudedawg67's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:07 am

You know what else makes the receiving corps better? A greatly improved offensive line. Rodgers may have 5 seconds to throw the ball instead of 2 and give theses guys time to show what they can do in a game situation. Hopefully this will be the case.

3 points
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DavidMichalski's picture

June 13, 2019 at 01:09 pm

Absolutely, there should be optimism in the 2019 Offensive Line for sure.

1 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

June 14, 2019 at 12:45 am

I thought Jeremy's (IIRC) comment that the OL should be told to stop blocking after 2.5 seconds was very funny. It was funny in part because it has a kernel of truth. The ball also needs to come out on time.

2 points
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Doug Niemczynski's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:31 am

We shall see. There all good, but really, reallly good?

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Freezn's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:53 am

Time to throw for Aron is not good for apposing defenses he will pick them apart

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IceBowl's picture

June 13, 2019 at 09:18 pm

Looks like we have a "Hatfields and McCoy's" thread. Pretty amusing. But pointless.

Everything I post is absolutely correct, positively accurate, gets my approval, and you should agree with me. :-)

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

June 13, 2019 at 10:05 pm

Short threads then.

1 points
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Pierre's picture

June 13, 2019 at 10:29 pm

OL should be better...if they stay healthy...but who’s already thinking they would not be surprised if Bulaga goes down with an injury by game 2 or 3?

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Branden Burke's picture

June 15, 2019 at 08:48 am

I will say this, I think Moore will become a very good wr. Everyone roasted me when I said Adams would be a stud and replace Jordy as the #1 when they were all calling for him to get cut. I'm calling Moore too. At minimum, he looks to be a really good #3 from either the slot or the outside. I also said Adams had the potential to be great from the slot and was told I was wrong then too. We will see this year hopefully. Adams will be practically unguardable from the slot. He has the best release in the league. You will need 2 defenders to account for him in the slot because of his release.

Personally, I think last year green bay had one of the best WR drafts I have ever seen. Any one of the guys they drafted can become #1 wr's, and Jake could be a very solid, reliable #4 or #3. The guys that I think the least of in the group are Trevor Davis and Allison. Davis has shown bad footwork and release to this point of his career. Not a good route runner. More of a gadget player like Patterson, who is finally developing and can be a true weapon in Chicago. Allison is just a decent wr. Does everything well, nothing great. It would be tough to cut one of them. If I cut one, it's Trevor Davis. There are no camp bodies in that group. They all add something.

0 points
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