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The Packers Young Receivers are Really Good

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The Packers Young Receivers are Really Good

One encouraging sign from the offseason programs thus far has been the development of Aaron Rodgers young receiving core.  Last season the old guard was hammered with injuries forcing young receivers like Marquez-Valdes-Scantling, Equanimeous St. Brown, and Jake Kumerow to take meaningful snaps during the majority of the season.  

Their experiences both good and bad from 2018 seem to have paid dividends, and this trio of young receivers look poised to make significant gains in 2019.

Early reports have indicated Equanimeous St. Brown, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, and Jake Kumerow have all made strides in their development and are transitioning smoothly into Matt LaFleur's fresh, innovative offense.  

Aaron has not been able to overthrow MVS and has developed a lot of continuity and trust with Jake Kumerow while ESB and Geronimo Allison figure to have unlimited potential both inside and outside as well as on some jet sweep opportunities.  

I think it is safe to say from professor Rodgers assessment, that Jake Kumerow will be a premier target in the scramble drill, sideline throws, as well as in the red zone.  Translation: Kumerow is going to have a breakout season in 2019.    

As training camp approaches, many will write countless articles about the Packers wide receiver battle.  I am here to tell you, that the Packers wide receiver position battle is already sown up (barring injury).  Here is a pretty good indication of who the Packers will keep on their week 1 53 man roster:

Wide Receivers (6):

1. Davante Adams

2. Geronimo Allison

3. Marquez Valdes-Scantling

4. Equanimeous St. Brown

5. Jake Kumerow

6. J'Mon Moore* (Purely for depth and special teams) 

*Special Teams: Trevor Davis- I could see Trevor Davis seeing very personalized and limited receiver and jet sweep reps in LaFleur's offense. 

My Outlook:

All signs indicate a tremendous amount of growth from this young wide receiver core which could yield a top 5 offensive group in the very near future.    

-------------------

David Michalski is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @kilbas27dave 

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Fan friendly comments only: on Comments (129) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Coldworld's picture

Long way to go yet, not a pad in sight. It’s not that I disagree on the names, but the order could shift considerably.

jannes bjornson's picture

Six WRs will make the squad. A couple of them will be returning Kicks and/or punts. The seventh guy is taking up too much space. The defense needs the depth up front.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

5/6 WRs: probably the six named in the article;
3 RBs: Jones, Jamaal, and there will be a 3rd guy;
3/4 TEs: Could go with 3. $550K to Lewis. Tonyan?
2/3 QBs: AR + Kizer and Boyle on the bubble, or both?
8/10 OL: LT, OC, RT, + Turner, Jenkins, Taylor. 2/4 more.
22/26: 24 is common, but GB has kept 25 and 26 on O.

RB: Dexter Williams, Bibbs? Carson?? Vitale??? At least 1.

No more than 3 additional offensive players, two of whom must be OL:

OL: Madison = good bet/bubble. Spriggs = bubble.
McCray, Patrick, Pankey, DeBeer, Nijman, Light.
QB: At least one of Kizer, Boyle. I'd keep both.
WR: Trevor Davis? Lazard?? Redding???

6/7 DL: Daniels, Clark, Lowry, Adams, Lancaster, Keke. Fadol?
2/3 ILB: Martinez, Burks. Really could use a 3rd guy.
4/5 OLB: Smith, Smith, Gary, Fackrell. 1 more?;
5 CBs: King, Alexander, Jackson, Tramon, Tony Brown;
3/5 S: Amos, Savage, Greene.
20/25

ILBs: Crawford, Bolton, Summers - at least 1
OLB: Gilbert, Donnerson, Roberts ($72K guaranteed).
DBs: Redmond, Jamerson, Hollman, Josh Jones,
DL: Looney????

Injuries are always a possibility. Picking up a player is possible. Apparently there are some rumors about trading Daniels. A trade or cutting of Josh Jones would be unsurprising.

stockholder's picture

6 wrs plus Davis=7, 3 TE. Graham, Jace, Bob or Lewis. 10 OL include Spriggs. 3 QBs Kizer , Bubble Boyle, 3 Rbs -= 26// Defense Line 6 Yours are fine. 3 ILBs Martinez Burks, Summers, OLBs 5 Donnerson over Gilbert. CBs 6 King, Alexander, Jackson, Tramon, Tony Brown; Hollman 4 = S include Jones! (Trade ??) Carpenter over Hollman if ready.

Packers2019's picture

Agree Cold

I also do not think we keep 7 WR's. Davis is gone or Moore is gone most likely.

stockholder's picture

I sure would Love to put a Bet on Davis staying.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Davis really bombed it in 2018. Sorry bad airport joke.

wildbill's picture

I am happy with our WR group, just praying Adams doesn’t get hurt

Packers2019's picture

Sorry Wildbill,

If we had a good WR group, we would have a #2 WR that could step in should Adams get hurt. We don't. We do not even have a #2 at this point.

I respectfully disagree with you.

PeteK's picture

Can't name a team that could replace an Adams with their #2 . Maybe hold it together for awhile.

John30856's picture

Why would you even say that???

Lare's picture

Let's face it, last season ended up being something of a lost season under the McCarthy regime. However, that ends up working in the favor of a number of young players (like the WRs) as giving them a year of NFL experience.

Looks to be a talented group, hopefully they'll do well. Will be interesting to see how they do in the LaFleur scheme.

Bure9620's picture

Agree, loads of Talent here, I am still on the Equinemious St. Brown wagon, he is just a smooth athlete at 6'5" and he had one of the lowest drop rates, his "true catch" rate, yes there are metrics here, is over 80%. He is a massive athletic target. I predict St. Brown supplants Allinson as the primary slot player. Red zone matchup problem as well.

I would like to see a red zone spread look of Graham (6'7"), MVS (6'4") St. Brown (6'5") Kumerow (6'4") and Adams

Tundraboy's picture

I see the same in ESB.

NJMagic's picture

Smooth routes yes, athletic yes, but I don't see ESB highpointing the ball and fighting through catches in the air. If he can work on that aspect... 100% red zone threat.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

NJMagic,
Why do say that? What has given you any indication ESB cannot do this?

PeteK's picture

Take a look at last years stats and videos.

Branden Burke's picture

Esb's downfalls are he is a little more finesse and his release isn't particularly good. Half of getting open in this league is route running (which he does ok) and release. The other half is scheme and physical ability. If he gets his footwork and release down, adds some upper body strength, he will do really well.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Bure,
Agree immensely! I think ESB is going to surprise many around the NFL how good he is. He will have a great season!

Freezn's picture

I Believe we will have a very fast large set of receivers that will create a lot of problems for apposing secondaries. We are big fast and will really be an improvement this year.

David Michalski's picture

I also think ESB has a great second season. I think he has a chance to be a pro bowl caliber player. I also agree that he could supplant Geronimo as it seems there's always a hiccup with him at some point during the year. I think Aaron's gushing about Kumerow not only ends the debate about him making the team, but it also tells us he's going to get a lot of targets and have a chance for a big year. Finally, I think J'Mon Moore could be a casualty next year.

PeteK's picture

ESB was behind MVS in all receiver categories last season, and that will be the same this season. Even with a small sample ,we could see that there was a connect with Kumerow and AR. I'm just glad all the young receivers got that rookie season under their belt and are ready to improve. Wishing for a group similar to Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones. Guard play and Bulaga will be keys to this offense exploding to top level.

flackcatcher's picture

Until I see this WR group in the new system, I am taking a wait and see stance. I would only add, because of their injury history, Kumerow and Davis may be on the bubble. Outside of that, unlike the defense which we saw last year, none of us know how the players will respond in the new offensive. (If Rodgers, for some reason goes full 'mad gunslinger route', then all bets are off-:)

Branden Burke's picture

ESB will never be a pro bowl player until he masters his release and route running. If he can master those, then he can be great.

Ignore the terrible music and watch Adams 2018 to 2019 highlight video. It shows several routes. His mastery of route running and release is what makes him get open. His short area quickness is elite, even though his straight line speed is just average.

Then watch st. Browns highlight video. He relies purely on his physical ability. He has a poor release and just runs to open field, which works ok. Improved route running will force him open even when the coverage is tight. He is missing half of his toolbox. A pretty important part of it really. There have been offensive lineman that have outran Jarvis Landry in a straight line. His mastery of his release and route running is what makes him great. Antonio Brown and Donald driver both made careers from it. Gotta master it to go to the next level.

David Michalski's picture

I think the key here is Davante's evolution. Believe it or not, people gave up on Davante after his second season, who's to say St. Brown doesn't continue to improve and develop into a pro bowl caliber receiver; as you said, he has the physical ability.

Swisch's picture

The Packers churn out excellent wide receivers the way the state of Wisconsin churns out golden butter.
Now, once again, no margarinal talent here -- only the cream on the top.
Yes, there are a lot of maybes in the receiving corps (including tight end and running back), but I am exceedingly excited to see this offense develop into one of the best in the NFL as early as this season.
Aaron Rodgers is going to be rejuvenated, because his pass catchers are going to be on a roll.

4thand1's picture

I'm not going to get overly optimistic, but it won't be easy this year. This team is loaded with talent.

Bearmeat's picture

I'm really excited about the WRs. As long as Adams stays healthy, this is going to be - at the floor - an effective unit. And its ceiling is a unit that strikes fear into opposing DC's.

IceBowl's picture

Bearmeat,

Yes our WR's should be looking good to all of us, Great physical talents.

But what will "strikes fear into opposing DC's" is ARod deploying them.

Bearmeat's picture

Right!

Freezn's picture

The fun part in all of this offseason stuff is that no one knows the packers new offense and I believe Aron will have a hay day with apposing defenses. As it will be a totally different offense and no tape to go on. WE will be feeding on defenses and our defense will be feeding on offenses. This will be a scary team to play

Since '61's picture

Only 3 more months of Hype to go. Hype, hype and more hype. Thanks, Since ‘61

IceBowl's picture

Since '61,

Plenty of time for a trip to "Wonderland." Let's go!

Tundraboy's picture

True only hype. But sure beats the last few years.

Guam's picture

I love the optimism, but it is still the underwear season. I will be more impressed if they perform as advertised when the pads are on. Hopefully we see a similar article late in August...….

Wilment's picture

I think our wide receiving core group could be excellent. Their fortunes will mirror the ability of the oline to keep Aaron upright....upright healthy Aaron Rodgers is the key.

jeepingmakooi's picture

Chuuuu chuuuu hype train.comjng through.. I'm on board though

Coach JV's picture

I'm not blasting the author... but Kumero saw NO meaningful snaps last season. He F'd up his shoulder while showing off and missed all of the season until like... what... Week 15 or 16??

Otherwise, good article. I love that these young guys are coming on strong. Not convinced on Davis... we'll see.

GPG!

TheBigCheeze's picture

JV...what matters is that Kumerow looked great from what few opportunities he had....stop the hate.....

IceBowl's picture

TheBigCheeze,

I've not seen Kumerow look bad. Not last year. And now ARod talks him up even more.

He does the little things, and catches the ball.

John30856's picture

Agrred cheese. some just have to be negative and worry. Yep lots could happen lol

David Michalski's picture

I think your point is valid, however, when Aaron spends a minute gushing about all of the little things he does...that speaks volumes to me. Aaron is so particular and detail oriented that I think Kumerow having a big season is now a real possibility.

Coldworld's picture

I see Kumerow as being the second Allison. Neither are uniquely physically gifted at this level but both have a feel for where to be to get open and react as plays unfold.

I think Allison is the younger of the two. My one concern is whether we need two of that type in the roster. I think the second is the ideal last WR (excluding any return specialist) if we did keep 2, but if Davies makes it as a WR, one may not as the pipeline needs to be based on upside and youth, at both returner and WR.

We won’t see how the competition is really shaking out till the pads go on, plays are contested and the return competition really gets going in camp.

Sean-Luc Shanahan's picture

I think Davis could nab moore’s Spot. If Moore doesn’t show up at training camp he could be cut

Jonathan Spader's picture

Davis is in a conteact year Moore is in year 2. You're not going to cut Moore for Davis unless Davis really does well and Moore really does poorly. I think Moore will surprise Packer fans like you that have already given up on him.

Guam's picture

Agree JS. I am not a Moore fan, but he will have to play his way off the roster for the Packers to give up on a second year guy with his measurables. Davis is much more vulnerable to being cut as he has had time to demonstrate his potential and largely failed to date.

Handsback's picture

As was pointed out to me on another site....both Davis and Moore were both picks that the coaches knew would take time to develop. Weather Davis is in a contract year or not, he knows this is his last opportunity to make this team. Can he stay healthy and contribute to ST and be in the mix for a WR position.
Moore is a high draft pick that didn't show much at all last year. This year, he hasn't made any impressions that people want to write about...not good. At least with Davis he was always penciled in on STs as a returner. Moore isn't a returner at this point. So does Green Bay get rid of a contributor, Davis, and have that spot taken by a non-contributor-Moore? To me it's a numbers game. There are 53 of them and you have to beat out players to nab a spot. Moore has to not only beat out Davis, but also another ILB or CB. This debate will continue until TC seperates the players and maybe Moore can turn it on then. One thing he has going for him....Davis always looks great in shorts and disappoints in pads.

marpag1's picture

"I think Moore will surprise Packer fans like you that have already given up on him."

I have no reason to give up on Moore since he is under a rookie contract and we have nothing to lose by letting him show his stuff in training camp. But it's hard to overstate just how disappointing his first year was. In a year that was wide open for young receivers to see action, Moore took 74 offensive snaps, and was targeted only 3 times. He caught two passes for 15 yards, and one of those he fumbled. If he wants to make the roster, he darn well better surprise a few people...

Packers2019's picture

I think both Davis and Moore could be cut and we keep an extra TE. Special Teams will be key.

We can all speculate but it is not just about what the 5th and 6th WR's can do at WR. It comes down to ST's. They both could get cut. And David could definitely make the team and Moore not make it.

We are not in the TT era anymore my friends.

Branden Burke's picture

Davis stinks at route running and footwork. Cal pretty much only used him on screens and streaks, and as a kick returner. And that's part of the reason his transition has been bad. He didn't really have to get himself open in college. It was his speed and poor defensive discipline. That's one area that Moore is light-years ahead of him in and why he is the much better prospect. He has Adams potential. Just needs to get it to click upstairs

stockholder's picture

(Really does poorly) Thats it! Allison, Kumero, and Moore are your bubble Wrs. The Ceiling maybe reached. Davis will get one more year because of his return ability. St.Brown and MVS must show the rookie mistakes are over.

Sean-Luc Shanahan's picture

I think Davis could nab moore’s Spot. If Moore doesn’t show up at training camp he could be cut

Adorabelle's picture

Mr. Rodgers like Jake Kumerow. That bodes well for Jake Kumerow.

Gort's picture

Too bad that we missed an opportunity to draft a game changing WR in the first round of the draft !! ??

IceBowl's picture

Gort,

Tell us what drafted rookie WR will be a game changing player for us this year?

Takes most 3 years to settle in. A few accomplish it in 2 years. I hope we have 3 2nd year WR's that turn the lights on.

Gort's picture

Ice, I have a PhD in sarcasm.

IceBowl's picture

Gort,

Well at least I am paying attention.

I guess I have an Executive Doctorate at not understanding. So you got me.

I've not seen many posts from you, so I live and learn. LOL Love it.

Gort's picture

No worries.

I also lean towards the realistic and know about the difference between pre- season wonders and regular season gamers.

John30856's picture

right remember how many in here were ready to dump Davante after one year lol

David Michalski's picture

Davante had 38/446/3 a far cry from 3/15 and 1 fumble. The people who wanted to run Davante out are probably the same people that think Trubisky is better than Aaron; just a bunch of noise.

Bottom line: J'Mon has to open eyes or he could be out next year.

Coldworld's picture

Key point: next year not this. Too much upside, but we need to either ask Gute to not pick high upside raw players or learn to give them time.

Personally, I want high upside because that’s how you become a winner in this day and age. If you are not picking in the top ten every year, you either have to be incredibly lucky/brilliant (Bakhtiari) or take some downside and live with that.

Moore and Jackson are two examples. Time was and is needed with them. It was no secret before and after the draft and it shouldn’t be now. They need time and learning. Maybe that won’t happen, but if it does, then we will have Adams like gratitude.

Qoojo's picture

Not sure how anyone can get excited about glowing reports in mini-camps. Wait till the pads are on, and it's against 1s and 2s.

IceBowl's picture

Qoojo,

This is a glowing reports sight. Aren't you glowing??

Swisch's picture

Although it's indeed incomplete, wide receiver is perhaps the best position to evaluate without the pads on.

4thand1's picture

Nobody glows, budda book budda boom

IceBowl's picture

4thand1,

"Nobody glows?" Here, now???? You disappoint me.

I am glowing!!!!!! "budda book budda boom" Happily.

Go CHTV!!!!

Coldworld's picture

In some ways, such as route running, but since there is no physicality, it doesn’t address how players deal with bumping, redirection and contested catches. Smaller receivers often shine as a result.

Handsback's picture

So true......

IceBowl's picture

OldSchool is still here, as of this morning.

We all get a vacation you know.

Turophile's picture

The two biggest groups of players on the offense (WRs and OL) are first stocked up, then given time to ascend to starter level. If they show some talent they are kept for a few years to bring on.

OL like Madison, McCray, Patrick, Pankey, Spriggs are brought on with the hope that one becomes a Lane Taylor type, able to eventually step in. Packers sometimes roll the dice on raw players, based on them being superior athletes, like Amichia, and they get a chance on that basis, but if they cannot develop quickly, they are soon gone.

Same applies to WR like Valdez-Scantling, St.Brown, Moore, Kumerow, Allison, Davis. Earlier WR stock-ups (Yancey, Dupre) didn't yield much and were discarded quite quickly, but from the current group, MVS, ESB, Kumerow Allison all have shown enough signs of being worth keeping (though Kumerow and Allison may end up fighting over one spot).

Davis is also a possible keeper as a WR/returner. His being kept may hinge on whether he looks a viable backup receiver, to pair with his return game.

D.Adams + Allison + MVS + ESB + Kumerow + Davis (if the Packers go that way) leaves Moore hoping 7 WRs are kept.

Because you often don't really know what you have until the developing players have had a little time to develop, it's hard to determine the best policy when this years cutdown to 53 comes. Will it be 5 WRs or 6, or 7 ? My current guess is 6/7 because so many are showing signs of being keepers.

David Michalski's picture

I understand the skepticism of early mini-camp gushing, I myself wrote an article a couple of weeks ago telling everyone to pump the breaks. However, when Aaron spends a minute talking mostly about the fine details of one of his young receivers and the coach backs it up, I tend to take more weight in that assessment which is why I am buying in on Kumerow and the young wideouts. If the Packers strike gold it tends to be with wide receivers.

SterlingSharpe's picture

Yeah I agree, but Rodgers gushed about Kumerow last year too.

Look, I believe if Kumerow was forced to start and play most of the game, and Rodgers wanted to, he could get Kumerow into becoming an Adam Thielen type of producer. I think Jake has that much ability.

But Rodgers is too set on looking #17 way so often. And then Allison.... he has a pecking order and it's worked for him obviously.

I am old enough to remember 1996 when we lost Brooks & Freeman (this after losing Sterling in 1994). The cupboard was bare. The WRs struggled so bad we sucked in the middle of 96 with no WRs so much so that we had to bring in Andre Rison, which saved the season.

I just think if that happened now, I believe if forced, he'd trust and go to Kumerow enough he could get 5 catches a game easily.

marpag1's picture

"... but Rodgers gushed about Kumerow last year too."

Also, there was that man-crush he had on Jared Abbrederis, which didn't really pan out either.

John30856's picture

Guess you forgot Kumerow was hurt most of last year

Coldworld's picture

But players aren’t coaches.

Old School's picture

David, the cure for this minicamp gushing is simple: Focus on the only question that matters, "have we closed the gap between us and Chicago"?

They were the #1 defense last year, they won 12 games and the division. Trubisky was #2 in QB rankings and their drive success rate was one of the best in the league.

Did they get worse in the offseason? Better? Have we closed the gap enough? Because if we haven't, we're not winning the division and probably not going to the playoffs.

We were 1-5 in the division and were a narrow hair away from being 0-6 in the division. Our hopes for a better running game rest on the legs of a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy more than half a season. We have no backup QB, and without Adams our WR corps looks pretty pedestrian.

That's why I'm not gushing. Yes, it's nice to see the players working out and looking good, but the same thing is true of all 32 teams. We're going to find out in the Opener how good we are. Or aren't.

marpag1's picture

Um....so the fact that players look good in practice has nothing to do with the question of whether or not we've closed the gap with Chicago? How do you talk about closing the gap without talking about the quality of your players?

Gort's picture

We need "gamers". You won't find out who they are until the pads go on and people get knocked out of their cleats.

dobber's picture

"David, the cure for this minicamp gushing is simple: Focus on the only question that matters, "have we closed the gap between us and Chicago"?"

The only way you can answer the question is to play the games.

That makes the off-season pretty dull.

Demon's picture

Our hopes for a better running game rest on the legs of a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy more than half a season.

Where did you find that stat? You cant be referring to Jones. In 2017 Jones carried the ball in 10 games. In 2018 he carried the ball in 12 games after serving a 2 game suspension. By my math Jones was healthy for 24 of 32 games. Granted he isnt Walter Payton but he hasnt missed half his games either.

If Jones truly had missed 50% of his games you would have a point. But he has'nt so you dont.

Old School's picture

Duplicate

Old School's picture

Demon, with his own set of useless facts!!

By my math, 10 + 12= 22, not 24.

Two seasons, 214 rushes, 35 receptions. Available for 68% of his games. If you consider was knocked out of two games it's even less. Has never played a full season, even as a part-time player.

Demon's picture

You misunderstood. Jones was not injured the first 2 games last year he was suspended.

In 2017 Jones carried the ball in 10 games. If you remember correctly Montgomery started games early in the season. Jones didnt play until after Montgomery and Williams got hurt.

You claim Jones to be injury prone and a part time player, yet you banged the drum loudly to bring Nick Perry back this year. Last I heard Perry was auditioning for Charmin commercials on TV.

Old School's picture

Doplicate

Old School's picture

I didn't say he was injured. He was unavailable.

Perry's career availability compares quite well with Jones. Jones has been available for 68% of games over his career, Perry at 72%.

Perry also took over 800 snaps the last two seasons,more than twice as many as Jones.

Read carefully: Jones is less durable than Nick Perry.

Coldworld's picture

If we are getting pedantic, absence for reasons other than health does not equate to durability.

Demon's picture

Thank you coldworld.

Demon's picture

OS I think it ironic that you get all butt hurt about being down voted. You claim you're the victim of insults, harassment and peronal attacks. Yet you have insulted my intelligence or reading comprehension how many times?

And you sir are the one whom roughly a month ago called another poster a dumbass. Anyone else remember that? Then you want the owners/moderators of CHTV to feel sorry for you and remove the upvote or down vote buttons because it hurts your feelings Grow a pair buddy!

Old School's picture

When you repeatedly misstated what I've said, what am I supposed to think? When you tell me facts are irrelevant, what am I supposed to think? When you tell me that 10 + 12=24, what am I supposed to think?

My feelings have nothing to do with the downvote. I think it encourages negativity and discourages expressing unpopular opinions.

And please stop obsessing on my nuts; you've done this a couple of times now and I think it's weird

Demon's picture

Just wow yeah you need CHTV to feel sorry for you. You're the victim.

IceBowl's picture

Demon,

I would agree with OldSchools post at that time and post. The post was as he said. As are many others here. That is what a blog offers, every mothers son has an anonymous voice to spout whatever. And they sure do!!!!!

Just like you Demon!!

Coldworld's picture

Really don’t see the problem as long as one is civil. We are all dumbasses in comparison to the professionals. If you hate this post, it doesn’t make me regret it. Negative or positive votes are like a canvas of reactions. I find those results interesting. It’s one of the distinctive features of this site for me. Like it, want to keep it as I see value in it.

Coldworld's picture

We live in a world already too afraid of contrary feedback. I like the down as well as up vote feature. It’s one of the distinctive features of this site for me.

If someone doesn’t like what I say, let them down vote. I see the results as an indication of gut sentiment and that is interesting in itself. Moreover, if I express a view, I am throwing it out there for others to chew on and react to. Why else. It’s not like the folks at Lombardi care what we write. They know we are all dumbass couch commentators to a person.

Vote me up, vote me down, I’ll rake either over the 0/0 meh. I’d hope others take the same view as it fosters lively discussion. But if we throw an opinion out, we have to accept that others may disagree. If one is not up for that, probably shouldn’t post.

Samson's picture

Demon
Don't hurt yourself trying reason with Old School. --- He's only here to argue with whoever will take the time to argue with him.... He has what psychiatrists call the "contrarian complex".... To him, what's light is dark, what's sunny is cloudy, what's right is wrong, and so on....Somehow, someway, Old School needs to leave the dark & come into the light.

Old School will be eating a kitchen full of crow when GB overwhelms the NFL in season 2019.

Old School's picture

Yet another Samson post that is not about football but is just a personal attack on another poster, 100%.

And then he downvoted me and upvoted himself.

Samson's picture

My mistake.
Another invitation to you..... Come out of the dark & into the light.
TT's gone. MM's gone. Joe Philbin isn't a HC anywhere. GB didn't draft Drew Lock to BU AR.... and on & on & on.

Comprende, Se·ñor?

Old School's picture

I have no idea what point you are trying tomake, if any.

Old School's picture

So did I get downvoted here because I didn't understand something? I mean, saying you don't understand is something that should be downvoted?

Demon's picture

Samson, and dont forget that Gute did not trade down like P.O.S. has told us several times that he would.

Old School's picture

Ok, if that’s the way you want it. I tried to be civil. You're pretty brave behind that keyboard. IF you called me a P.O.S to my face I'd send you to the hospital, guaranteed. It's pretty sad when a punk like you is calling a Packer fan of 50 years and a veteran to boot a P.O.S. because he disagrees with you.

Eat shit and die you little piss ant. If you'd like to discuss this in person, I'll pay your travel expenses to San Antonio.

Old School's picture

In 2010, after Vikings had gone to the NFC Championship game the previous year, the Daily Norseman, Chris Gates, talked about how the Vikings were the clear class of the division and would overwhelm the NFC on their way to the Super Bowl.

Let the record show that didn't happen. In fact, Minnesota only had one winning season out of the next five and didn't win a playoff game again until 2017.

So I'm going to file your "overwhelm" comment away and bring it back at the end of the season. We'll see who eats the crow.

Coldworld's picture

Old School Is correct, we won’t know anything about individuals until the pads are on and the young players ready to compete.

What I disagree with him on is that one can’t look at what the overall roster and philosophy indicates, for example depth, TE use, formation concepts. That and the coaching attitude is exciting as is the raw potential. We should learn more as Camp progresses.

We will learn more as the first games occur, but expect this to be a work in progress. New and young players in a new system (in effect on both sides of the ball). May not start to pay dividends till well into the season.

David Michalski's picture

Old School,

I'm going to be focusing on positional groups I think have improved then bring the complete picture together towards the end of the offseason. Long story short, I think the team is improved, and I could see anywhere in between 8-8 and 10-6 (if everything fell perfectly) more likely I'm thinking 8-8, 9-7. I think with another draft and another free agent or two 2020 could be the year the Packers are a legitimate contender.

As far as addressing Trubisky, Pro Football Focus has him ranked 30th with a grade of 60.3. I personally think he's a mid to upper 20's QB who has a great coach calling plays in Nagy bc he accentuates safe routes, creative formations, and plays to Mitch's strengths. The Bears' defense, there's no argument it is significantly better than the Packers. Obviously, that doesn't mean Rodgers won't light them up but over the course of 16 games, I still give them the edge.

Right now I'd probably go with:

Bears 10-6, 11-5
Vikings 9-7, 10-6
Packers 8-8, 9-7
Detroit 7-9

In my opinion, the NFC North could be one of, if not the toughest divisions in football.

Old School's picture

David, I think we've improved, too. But not enough, especially if anything goes wrong.

As regards Trubiskey, I think he's being underestimated. You said that PFF had him at #30, but you neglected to mention in what measure.

In his second year in the league, he started 14 games and went 11-3. His passer rating was 16th. His QB rating was 4th. His net yards/attempt was 13th. He was 12th in the percentage of his passes that ended up in the endzone.

He's probably going to improve.

Tundraboy's picture

And for all those gaudy stats,how far did that take the Bares?

Old School's picture

Farther than Rodgers took the Packers.

Coldworld's picture

Two legs good one leg bad.

Seriously, if I hadn’t read Old School’s posts in prior years i’d think he was a Bears’ troll just reading recent chains.

Old School's picture

Yeah. Amazing that young legs don't get injured as much.

Coldworld's picture

Quite a lot of young QB injuries, though I take your point.

The thing is, has nothing to do with my point that it is a highly relevant factor in the discussion of Rodgers’ performance last year.

Old School's picture

And the year before. And 2013. And 2015 it was His favorite receiver who was hurt.

Yes, under laboratory conditions where everybody is healthy, Rodgers is an outstanding QB. In the real world, he was a little better than average the last two years.

Coldworld's picture

You seem to expect miracles from Rodgers. He is not so miraculous as to be unaffected by the quality of the team around him.

Old School's picture

Unlike all the other QBs in the league? Were any other QBs in the league affected by the team around him? Did 18 other QBs have better teams around them? A top WR, a Top LT, one of the Top TEs in the league, and one of the best rushing yards/attempt backfields in the league. But I guess he needs more, huh?

If it's all about the team around them, what do we need Rodgers for? Why not just get a scrub for a lot less money and put a team around him?

Miracles? No. Throw passes to receivers when they're open instead of hanging onto the ball for a sack that kills the drive. Does that take a miracle? I don't think so.

dobber's picture

It always seems to me that QB injuries are far more a function of QBs getting hit than QBs traveling around the sun a few more times.

Old School's picture

I don’t know how old you are Dobber, but I assure you those trips around the sun count. That’s why the NFL doesn’t have a bunch of 50 year olds.

You get injured more easily. You heal more slowly. Ask any doctor.

Brady gets hit. So does Brees. Not every body holds up as well as Favre. Two broken bones in the last 2 years vs. two in the 10 previous years? And a concussion, too? And you don’t think age is a significant factor?

dobber's picture

Older than you might think.

As I re-read my post, it wasn't worded very well, but really my point was that the OL improvements and an offense that relies more on timing and less on his improvisation will have a lot to do with the health of #12. Non-contact injuries happen to QBs, but not terribly often. As you look at #12's injuries over the years, many have occurred when he's been out of the pocket extending plays. That's part of what makes him special, but he's got to be mindful of the fact that he's not going to outrun defenders like he used to.

I would argue that age points to his getting caught more, but is unlikely yet to be a contributor to broken bones themselves. Bone strength might change some over his career, but for someone who is regularly involved in weight training and good nutrition, it's unlikely that his bone strength has changed enough that the injuries he's sustained as a result of those impacts would have been avoided in his 20s.

I'm still not convinced that they've adequately addressed OT and OT depth.

Coldworld's picture

On your OT point, I think that you may be correct, but one can’t do everything at once. Next year is supposedly a good OT draft, this year supposedly was not.

I don’t know about Turner. I know some Broncos fans who think he has what it takes to be a tackle based on his pass pro last year, but that still leaves us with Spriggs. That is perhaps better than most teams, many of whom have questions about their starter(s).

I wonder if Nijman and de Beer might be the kernel of a future solution. Both are physically and athletically impressive but raw. Nijman will be someone I will be watching in camp for sure.

Old School's picture

I agree about the improvements in the O-line. I think the O-line situation is a lot better than it was a year ago.

For example, at RT, a year ago, we had Bulaga coming back from a big injury and surgery and rehab. This year, he comes in healthy.

We also have three new guys. Turner is a proven NFL player, Jenkins brings a lot of versatility and talent to the interior, and Cole may push Spriggs for the remaining gameday active spot. We're healthier, and deeper, than we were a year ago at this time.

I also agree that if Rodgers could stay in the pocket more.....like Brady and Brees….and improvise less, it would probably lessen the odds of him taking the big hits. But I'm not really optimistic about this. Just like our previous QB was kind of hard-wired to force stuff under pressure, this QB seems hard-wired to try to hit the big play downfield instead of resorting to check downs. We'll find out soon enough and I hope I'm wrong.

The bone density stuff......I think 4 broken bones tells us that he doesn't have bones that are really break-resistant. And the three concussions worry me, too, since every concussion you take makes the next one more likely. I remember Troy Aikman taking a bunch in a short period of time and that was the end of the deal. He went from being a top QB to being out of the league by the time he was 35. And he had a pretty good line in front of him, too.

As I've said before, I think Gutekunst is running an enormous gamble by placing all of his eggs in the Rodgers basket.

Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

Hey OS. I enjoy your posts, but if you live and die by the grounding of your arguments in statistics you need to get them right. I’m not going to check up on most of them, but the easy ones like division record kind of stick out. We were 1-4-1 last year and a (very) bad call from being 2-4. Not great of course, but not the 1-5 you say.

Old School's picture

You are right. We were one bad call from being 2-4. And one fantastic 4th quarter comeback from being 0-5-1. I forgot about the tie and was remembering that we only won one game in the division.

CalPacker's picture

I agree. Can we all just say, once and for all, the proof is in the pudding--and just leave it at that? Yes, it's early, but we're fans, which means we're all interested in early indications of what kind of year we can expect. If I recall correctly, last year at this time there was very little positive talk coming from the players--so there's that.

Rudedawg67's picture

You know what else makes the receiving corps better? A greatly improved offensive line. Rodgers may have 5 seconds to throw the ball instead of 2 and give theses guys time to show what they can do in a game situation. Hopefully this will be the case.

David Michalski's picture

Absolutely, there should be optimism in the 2019 Offensive Line for sure.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I thought Jeremy's (IIRC) comment that the OL should be told to stop blocking after 2.5 seconds was very funny. It was funny in part because it has a kernel of truth. The ball also needs to come out on time.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

We shall see. There all good, but really, reallly good?

Freezn's picture

Time to throw for Aron is not good for apposing defenses he will pick them apart

IceBowl's picture

Looks like we have a "Hatfields and McCoy's" thread. Pretty amusing. But pointless.

Everything I post is absolutely correct, positively accurate, gets my approval, and you should agree with me. :-)

Coldworld's picture

Short threads then.

Pierre's picture

OL should be better...if they stay healthy...but who’s already thinking they would not be surprised if Bulaga goes down with an injury by game 2 or 3?

Branden Burke's picture

I will say this, I think Moore will become a very good wr. Everyone roasted me when I said Adams would be a stud and replace Jordy as the #1 when they were all calling for him to get cut. I'm calling Moore too. At minimum, he looks to be a really good #3 from either the slot or the outside. I also said Adams had the potential to be great from the slot and was told I was wrong then too. We will see this year hopefully. Adams will be practically unguardable from the slot. He has the best release in the league. You will need 2 defenders to account for him in the slot because of his release.

Personally, I think last year green bay had one of the best WR drafts I have ever seen. Any one of the guys they drafted can become #1 wr's, and Jake could be a very solid, reliable #4 or #3. The guys that I think the least of in the group are Trevor Davis and Allison. Davis has shown bad footwork and release to this point of his career. Not a good route runner. More of a gadget player like Patterson, who is finally developing and can be a true weapon in Chicago. Allison is just a decent wr. Does everything well, nothing great. It would be tough to cut one of them. If I cut one, it's Trevor Davis. There are no camp bodies in that group. They all add something.

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