The Lass Word: Is Criticism of Myers Valid?

Coaches sending different message than fans.

I can’t help but notice lately that a lot of Green Bay Packer fans are on the bandwagon to get rid of Josh Myers.  A popular narrative has developed that Myers is the weak link on the team’s offensive line.  There seems to be a clamor for the former Ohio State star to be replaced by moving either Zach Tom or Elgton Jenkins to center. 

That sentiment gained great momentum when ESPN’s Rob Demovsky recently told a sports talk show that he doesn’t think Myers will be on the team next year, and that there are opinions within the Packers organization that Tom has Hall of Fame potential as a center.  Fans also took notice of rankings put out by organizations such as Pro Football Focus, rankings which list Myers below most of his offensive line teammates, and among the bottom of centers across the NFL.   As Myers enters the final year of his rookie contract, many supporters of the green and gold seem to feel it is a foregone conclusion that Myers will be allowed to walk next year to provide room for Tom or Jenkins or rookie Jacob Monk to step in.   

What makes this intriguing to me is that the signals coming from the Green Bay coaching staff seem to be completely different.  Offensive coordinator Adam Stenavich, asked during the 2023 season about replacing Myers on the O-line, remarked “Josh Myers is playing the best he’s played in his career.  I think he’s playing really well. So, I don’t think right now that is the best move for us because he is one of our best five players.” 

Long time Packers beat reporter Tom Silverstein recently wrote this for packersnews.com:  "The most common opinion among media and fans is that right tackle Zach Tom is going to replace center Josh Myers, forcing the 2021 second-round draft pick either to guard or the bench (and possibly a trade before the season starts).   Here’s the reality: the Packers like Myers and they don’t anticipate moving him out of the starting lineup.  Myers, whether you believe the Packers or not, had a solid finish to last season after struggling out of the gate. He did give up too many pressures overall as a pass blocker (14 pressures, five quarterback hits), but not as many sacks as many think he did.” 

I’m always a bit cautious in using PFF stats. They often seem contradictory and counter intuitive. For example, they have given Myers a lower 2023 rating in both run blocking and pass blocking than Tom, Jenkins and Rasheed Walker. Myers is rated higher than Sean Rhyan in both categories. Yet PFF’s figures show that Myers allowed fewer sacks than Walker. He allowed fewer quarterback hits than Jenkins or Walker. And he allowed fewer “hurries” than Tom, Jennings or Walker. 

Myers had six penalties flagged against him, four less than Walker, and just one more than Jenkins. Keep in mind Jenkins missed two games.  

No doubt one of the factors leading to the discontent over Myers’ play is the inevitable comparisons with Chiefs center Creed Humphrey. Myers was taken with pick number 62 in the second round of the 2021 draft. Humphrey, generally considered the top prospect at the center position going into the draft, was grabbed up on the very next pick by the Chiefs. The careers of the two prospects were destined to be examined side-by-side. So far, Humphrey has been voted to the Pro Bowl twice and consistently ranked among the best snappers in the league. Myers has not achieved such recognition. 

During a locker room interview before the divisional playoff game against the 49ers, Myers indicated to beat writers that he feels he is part of an offensive line that can be special right now. “Man, it feels great. We definitely feel like we’ve got lightning in a bottle a little bit right now,” he said. “I feel like everything’s coming together collectively.” 

Despite being a lightning rod for fan criticism, Myers enters training camp as the unquestioned starter at center. Zach Tom may or may not be better at the position, but at this point the coaches show no inclination to find out. They value Tom too much as a right tackle, and feel Jenkins’ best spot is at left guard.  

A year from now Green Bay will have to decide whether to let Myers walk. He hopes to use this season to make that decision much harder.  

 

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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

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Comments (48)

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T7Steve's picture

July 08, 2024 at 06:38 am

As long as he has to fight every day for the right to be the starter, and proves he's the best, I'll buy it.

I never really liked it that a second or third ("edit" year) player was considered before camp even starts, the unquestioned #1 starter. If it's just us or the media that think it, ok. As long as the player and the coaches think he still has to prove and improve himself.

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GregC's picture

July 08, 2024 at 07:25 am

There's no mention of run blocking in the article. I think that's the area where Myers struggles most. But it's harder to measure than pass blocking.

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LambeauPlain's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:29 pm

This was my observation too, Greg.

IMO, given the investments in the run game, run blocking...Myers weakness...is going to be even more important this season. And the C/RG middle has been very mediocre to help make it go.

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Guam's picture

July 08, 2024 at 07:38 am

I'm always a bit skeptical about comparisons between tackles and interior offensive linemen when talking about pass protection. Tackles are on islands and are always 1v1 against defensive ends/OLBs. Centers are often in three versus two situations where the center and both guards block two defensive tackles. That makes comparative stats about sacks, hurries, hits and penalties hard to evaluate. It is much easier to be successful two versus one than one versus one and centers should in 2v1 about half the time in pass pro.

I think the eye test is just as important as stats for a center and lots of folks with better evaluation skills than me have questioned Myers' abilities. He is certainly behind Jenkins, Tom, and Walker in my ranking of Packer O-linemen.

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T7Steve's picture

July 08, 2024 at 08:11 am

Didn't they even consider taking away his calls for blocking adjustments at the line? Can't remember if the was last season or previous. That's his most important job besides putting the ball in Love's hands.

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Guam's picture

July 08, 2024 at 10:01 am

I seem to remember Rodgers taking over the line calls in his last season with GB. However my memory is also highly suspect.......

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T7Steve's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:50 pm

Go back in the "news" to Dusty's "Passing Chronicles" from last Wednesday and watch him get shoved back and almost ruin a TD against the Vikings.

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Razer's picture

July 08, 2024 at 07:48 am

If we want to run the ball more effectively and control the line of scrimmage we need better guard and center play. By now, Myers should have established himself as a above average center and that has not happened. He's good enough and that is about it. That won't earn him a second contract nor should it. It is always the Creed Humphrey context that ruffles my feathers. Got to get those high draft picks right.

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Packfansincebirth's picture

July 08, 2024 at 08:20 am

Agreed! Two words will ALWAYS be mentioned when discussing Josh Meyers: Creed Humphrey.

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10ve 💚's picture

July 08, 2024 at 11:45 am

With a name like Creed... how can you forget! 😃

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Bitternotsour's picture

July 08, 2024 at 09:21 am

fans can't seem to fathom that center play is directly dependent on the guard play. for the first half of the season Jenkins was recovering from injuries and he wasn't what we expect Jenkins to be. The right guard was a mess almost all year and that impacts how your center performs. If the guards are firing, Myers is a really good center, like it or not.

He may or may not earn a second contract, but he's the center in 2024/25. End. Of. Story.

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Leatherhead's picture

July 08, 2024 at 09:44 am

I agree with BNS. I also think that any time you have a 5 man offensive line, one of those will have a lower PFF score than the other 4, and fans will jump on that to show their acumen.

I've watched every snap Myers took. He is not responsible for very many negative plays. There is a reason the coaches like him.

As regards the second contract, most of the Centers in the league are first contract guys. Only a few get second deals.

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GregC's picture

July 08, 2024 at 11:01 am

I don't think fans would have a problem with it if the lowest rated O-lineman on the team still had a good rating. But it says here that Myers is one of the lowest rated centers in the league. Like most people, I'm mostly going by what I read, as I don't have the time or the knowledge to make a full judgement on an O-lineman, especially an interior O-lineman. All I can say first-hand is that I don't see him making huge errors out there or getting his ass kicked. But I can't say anything about the finer points of run blocking. I'm encouraged that you like what you see from him after watching every snap. I'm always interested in hearing informed opinions.

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Bitternotsour's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:44 pm

Who gets to rate him? Obviously the Packers have him rated highly, or he wouldn't have his job. People that rely on amateurs at PFF are poorly served. Watch the games. Judge the results. Myers was the starting center on an ascendent offense, and they steamrolled the Cowboys in the playoffs. They shut down the Cowboys pass rush. The weeks before they destroyed the vaunted Vikings attacking defense. They stoned their exotic blitzes. They made them look like a college team. They still own the Bears.

What exactly do you think you deserve beyond that?

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Leatherhead's picture

July 08, 2024 at 02:38 pm

Does it say that Myers has been part of an above average offensive line since he's been here?

We're a passing team. We want out linemen to be pass blockers. Run blocking, not as important.

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dobber's picture

July 09, 2024 at 09:45 am

...and Myers won't look any better this season--or have much chance to convince his detractors he deserves another contract--if Rhyan (or whomever fills that spot) isn't a competent RG.

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LambeauPlain's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:35 pm

I have watched Myers snaps too. We must be looking at different plays.

Myers is ok pass blocking. I see that.

But when run blocking, if he has to quickly move in space to hit his target and/or get to the second level, he's lousy...almost timid. It's really strange how he tends backs off in the run game in space...kind of a big deal in the wide zone run blocking scheme the Packer run.

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Leatherhead's picture

July 08, 2024 at 02:42 pm

Again, we're a passing team. That's the first priority.

So he's not a good run blocker. And yet, he's out there with Newman and Walker and we still finished in the top half in rushing yards/attempt. I guess that Tom and Jenkins must really be good.

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dobber's picture

July 09, 2024 at 09:46 am

If you can't protect your QB, he's going to get hurt.

Very few teams can win on their backup QB.

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Guam's picture

July 08, 2024 at 10:10 am

I don't think many people are questioning Myers as the center for this year. However I do think he needs a pretty good season to see a second contract. He has been average in his first few seasons.

The Packers needed a back up center so drafting Monk wasn't a great surprise, but I think it also puts some pressure on Myers to step up if he wants that second contract. Monk might be good enough to seriously challenge Myers in 25/26.

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Bitternotsour's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:26 pm

succession is key. guys get older, slower, and more expensive. I'd be shocked if Jenkins gets a third contract. in hindsight, wouldn't we all like to have that third Bakhtiari contract back?

the league is a youngsters league except in key spots. QB, corner, and left tackle mostly. very little graceful aging in the nfl.

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LambeauPlain's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:38 pm

I expect Mr. Monk is going to question if Myers is the starting C this season.

This kid is going to be fun to watch in camp. I liked Barton but it seems according to Duke coaches and fans, Monk may have been the better player.

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Spock's picture

July 08, 2024 at 09:42 am

"...a lot of Green Bay Packer fans are on the bandwagon to get rid of Josh Myers." No, a lot of Packer fans want to get RID of Rouse Newman, they just want to replace Myers at center. I think fans are fine with keeping Myers as a backup.

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GregC's picture

July 08, 2024 at 10:40 am

He'll start this year, but he will need to play better to be worth keeping next year. At this point in his career, he'll be too expensive to keep as a backup. If he has even a halfway decent season, someone is bound to offer him Jon Runyan money, and I don't think it will be the Packers.

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stockholder's picture

July 08, 2024 at 11:01 am

Myers is are starting center-
Of Course Gute should have drafted
Humphrey. But he didn't.
Regardless -
Gute will sign Myers again.
Because Tom will stay at RT.
This isn't-
Cory Linsley vs JCTretter.
But what it is - it is.
NFL Centers are hard to get.
Didn't Linsley and Tretter sign
elsewhere and still prove themselves?
Myers does have that
Day in day out ability.
He may not be All Pro yet-
But given time. He will be.

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LLCHESTY's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:27 pm

"Myers is are starting center-"

That 1st line says just about everything you need to know about Stockholder. Luckily he puts as much thought behind his statements as he does his Grammer.

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Bitternotsour's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:37 pm

i see what you did there

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stockholder's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:58 pm

Thinking that you can judge someone's intelligence by their spelling and grammar is so incredibly wrong with you

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Johnblood27's picture

July 08, 2024 at 02:33 pm

Duh, gee Tennessee, Im not as think as you dum I am...

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LLCHESTY's picture

July 08, 2024 at 06:34 pm

Is it though? Intelligence has to be nurtured, someone's spelling and grammar points to exactly how much effort they put into that nurturing.

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Bitternotsour's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:36 pm

I've never studied Humphrey, but he is running in front of the best offensive scheme in football, with the best coach and the best overall line. As I've noted before, it's much easier to be a great center when you have great guards running beside you. It's also easy to look pretty good when Patrick Mahomes just breaks the pocket when he's pressured and makes mind blowing plays on the run. Add to that a safety valve like Travis Kelce cleaning up any messes, and you have a team of high recognition. If Love continues his ascent as I suspect, I expect Myers to be held in similar esteem to Humphrey

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dobber's picture

July 08, 2024 at 01:34 pm

JC Tretter couldn't stay healthy--he missed more games than he played--and with the Packers having an all-pro C in Linsley, Tretter would've needed to be resigned at competitive money to play a position that wasn't regarded as his best...or one he'd played a lot. The Packers--and TT--made the right call in letting him walk based on the info on hand.

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Bitternotsour's picture

July 08, 2024 at 05:03 pm

you can't keep them all

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dobber's picture

July 09, 2024 at 09:41 am

That, friend, is the gist of roster management in the modern NFL.

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LambeauPlain's picture

July 08, 2024 at 12:47 pm

I expect Myers may start at C, but keep an eye on Monk a few games in.

Monk may be similar to Jenks, who after a few games and practices during the season, was an obvious starter in waiting. When Lane Taylor got dinged in week 3, Jenks replaced him as starter and never looked back.

I think Monk could follow the same path to the starting 5 at C.

Steno saying Myers was playing the best football of his career was mostly blowing smoke. I understand it. What's he going to say "I selected him to be with the best 5 but now realize I was wrong." ? Plus Steno said this early in the season when Myers was struggling as bad as "hello, NEEEWMAN!".

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Leatherhead's picture

July 08, 2024 at 02:48 pm

Jenkins was a mid 2nd round pick, which is really high for an interior lineman. That's a validation by the personnel people in the league that he has above average potential.

Monk was the 163 player taken. He was the 9th offensive lineman taken on Day 3. That means that he might be a player, but you don't draft a guy with the 163rd pick expecting him to break into the starting lineup, especially on a pretty good team.

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Bitternotsour's picture

July 08, 2024 at 04:15 pm

this is not to say that O-line guys drafted by the packers in later rounds haven't been world beaters. just to say that it will be a big time win if they actually outcompete and win a spot.

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dobber's picture

July 08, 2024 at 01:23 pm

So far, the Packers have three players starting on their OL who have been touted as having their best NFL position being C. When Jenkins came in, he was expected to play C. Tom is supposedly a really good C (although he's played very few snaps there). Myers is a C and has played a lot of snaps. Monk appears to be a C, but it remains to be seen what their plans are for him.

I fully believe that part of the discussion centers around what you lose when you move a guy: so if Jenkins were playing C, would his replacement at LG result in an overall negative on the OL even if Jenkins (or Tom at RT, if you prefer) is a superior C? In the end, I think what we're seeing is either that 1) the current position alignment really does put their best 5 on the field, or 2) the step down at LG or RT is large enough that they can't take that risk (which is approximately saying the same thing as 1). Do you draft Monk if you expect that you're going to retain Myers? It's not like Monk was a day 1 or day 2 pick, but he has developmental starter written all over him...and if you're going to pay Jordan Love, you're limited on who you can pay after that.

Some have hammered Jenkins and said that he got his payday and isn't playing as hard...I'll remind people that Jenkins WAS playing between two really good OL (Bakhtiari and LInsley), then blew out his knee, came back in 8 months, played out of position, then finally went back to LG--leaving the question: did he benefit from Walker playing better or did he allow Walker to get better? This season will say a lot. He needs to be his pre-injury self and that will take pressure off Myers, too.

In the end, this is the most important position group on the field (QB aside), and the Packers need to get it right. A recent article in the "swipe left click-bait media" used PFF data and rated the Packers 2024 OL as LAST in the NFCN mostly on the uncertainty at RG and Myers' play at C. I don't buy that--Detroit's front-line is better, but the IOL of both the Bears and Vikings are a mess. Still, a recent article here said that the Packers' offense is essentially unstoppable...I disagree: one or two key injuries on the OL can derail this thing pretty fast.

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Leatherhead's picture

July 08, 2024 at 03:30 pm

Yeah, it's about the best unit, not necessarily the 5 best, and if they protect the QB, we're in business.

THE LAST IN THE NFCN stuff. Or 14th overall, if I read that article correctly. You know that I don't think PFF is the Bible, and this is one of the many reasons why.

I think the Packers/Gutekunst have done a good job of recovering from the Bakhtiari Mess. I mean, yes, bad luck, and we were in plugging the hole mode for quite a few games with Jenkins and Nijman and Tom and Walker plugging the gap. But let's be clear: These were stopgap. THE PLAN was that Bakhtiari was going to be a player for us for years, and that didn't happen, naturally.

Now, we've spent a high draft pick on one of the best LTs in the draft, and two rookies to help our interior line. Tom and Jenkins are studs at their respective positions. Myers is a guy on the fat part of the bell curve, maybe on the low side, but he's an NFL starting center, and when he leaves Green Bay, he'll be a starting Center for somebody else.

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dobber's picture

July 09, 2024 at 09:57 am

"You know that I don't think PFF is the Bible"

Any rating system is inherently biased...it's cooked right into the evaluation process. Sadly, for OL in particular, we don't have much else to go by. That said, the cherry-picking of data by chuckleheads in June to build articles of the type I mentioned, runs rampant through the internet. I don't think I bothered to finish reading that one.

"THE PLAN was that Bakhtiari was going to be a player for us for years, and that didn't happen, naturally."

I come back to the fact that the Packers drafted Jason Spriggs looking for flexibility in how they handled the OT situation...he could be the heir at LT or flop over to the right side and replace oft-injured Bryan Bulaga. Spriggs was a dismal failure, they were backed into a corner and forced to give Bakhtiari the big contract, and then he got hurt. That said, they had pretty good luck keeping the OL together absent Bakhtiari and plugging in Walker, and he had a good run to finish the season, but you're absolutely right: there was precious little behind their starters at the end of 2023.

They've added some young talent in the draft and a vet who can play if called upon. I don't know how many of those young guys will be ready to play this season, but some will need to. I have no idea how they plan to put all this all together, but it's been a long time since the Packers' OL has been a problem so I trust the staff to get these guys figured out. There's clearly a plan here.

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Leatherhead's picture

July 09, 2024 at 11:50 am

I think you're right that it was really the way Spriggs didn't work out that put us in a tight spot regarding Bakhtiari, and when Bakhtiari went down (that's 2020) we found ourselves seated on the throne with no toilet paper handy.

So we adapted and plugged in different guys. Like you, I have a lot of trust with the organization and the Oline. And yes, there's clearly a plan, the plan isn't to draft a premiere LT with your first round pick and then convert him to RG.

IMO, The Plan involves Morgan and Tom at tackle, Jenkins and Rhyan at guard for the next two seasons. Myers will depart after this season and we'll either install Monk as a starter, or more likely, draft a top C and start him from Day 1. Of the FAs in 2026, obviously Tom is the guy you want back, but Walker might be a nice, more affordable, option.

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Leatherhead's picture

July 08, 2024 at 03:51 pm

Some other observations.

Looking at what the Packers have done to this point, Jenkins and Tom are two studs at their position. Jenkins is getting well paid, and might be unaffordable in two years. Tom is a massive bargain, and he'll probably be a priority re-sign, even if it means parting ways with Jenkins.

The recap on Jenkins is totally on target. He was drafted really early for an interior lineman, and he was touted then as a very versatile guy. And he has played every position on the offensive line except Right Guard. So why did we draft Myers to play Center? So Jenkins could play somewhere else, and it worked. Tom was another bullseye from the personnel people, and they moved him around his rookie year before he went to RT, where he will continue to excel for two more years on a rookie deal.

The problem, as I see it, isn't our starters, it's that we don't have very much behind them. Two Day 3 rookies, a mediocre FA on a make good deal....not inspiring.

We might be able to survive one, or two, injuries, but after that we don't have any more good choices.

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Ferrari-Driver's picture

July 08, 2024 at 01:27 pm

Ken Lass: "A year from now Green Bay will have to decide whether to let Myers walk. He hopes to use this season to make that decision much harder."

Or "easier" If he excels significantly on the one hand and on the other hand "easier" if his play deteriorates by a like amount.

The tougher decision comes into play if his performance hovers around the level of play where the Packers aren't sure to keep him or let him go in free agency and look to replace him.

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Johnblood27's picture

July 08, 2024 at 02:38 pm

If unsure, let him go...

There are a LOT of pretty good players available as replacements each and every year.

Not to mention that Jenkins, Tom or Monk could supply an "in-house" replacement if the best option to increase talent is at G or T so the guys they have now can be replaced with a quality player.

Meyers has a LOT to prove this season. My money says he is a lame duck this year while Monk builds some experience and grows. Meyers will not get a second contract in GB.

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Leatherhead's picture

July 08, 2024 at 03:37 pm

JB, I'm pretty confident that Myers will leave after this season. Some other team is going to pay for his veteran stability. Remember, Runyan got $10M/year, and we're looking at Tom, Walker, and Rhyan all becoming FAs in two seasons, plus Jenkins salary will have escalated to the point where he might be unaffordable.

We've got a two year window, the only guy we'll lose is Myers. Our interior backups are a couple of Day 3 rookies. That's not good.

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The_Baloney_Stops_Here's picture

July 08, 2024 at 09:04 pm

Yes and no. While you hope for a better return with a 2nd round pick, top 10 picks bust all the time so you cant be too mad at getting a decent starter late in the 2nd round. They cant all be pro bowlers. Not to mention, the guy played hurt last year. He had an obvious shoulder injury to the point his left arm was nearly useless. Didnt miss a single game. He's a warrior and hes earned my respect.

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Johnblood27's picture

July 09, 2024 at 08:36 am

keep on slicing that sausage... it never stops!

something has to give here.

If Meyers shoulder injury was soooo obvious that his arm was completely useless then the philosophy of the coaching staff, from HC MLF on down, of playing the best 5 is just a bunch of bullshit. There is absolutely NO WAY that a one-armed below average center was one of the best 5 OL on the GBP roster.

Soooo...

Either Meyers was not as injured as you say and use an excuse for his sub-average play and warrior-ness...

OR...

The coaching Staff of the GBP are hypocritical liars and/or absolutely terrible judges of football player abilities.

Im gonna have to go with the former over the latter here.

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HarryHodag's picture

July 09, 2024 at 10:40 am

My main criticism is with the Packers personnel dept. on this one. Creed Humphrey has been an all-star selection. He was selected by Kansas City one pick after Myers. I remember all the legit scouts I follow said Humphrey was the better prospect of the two and that has panned out.
Myers is not bad it's just that he's not that good. If there is a potential upgrade at center(there's two already on the offensive line) then that should be explored as part of the 'five best'.

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