The Lass Word: High Hopes & Low Expectations

Get your mind in the right place.

Training camp week is here.  Is your Green Bay Packers coffee mug half-full or half empty as you look forward to the season?  Here’s how you can tell: 

Half Empty:  You expect a six or seven win season, and a third or fourth place finish in the NFC North. 

Half Full:  You anticipate a team that gets steadily better every week, and by December begins to peak and realize its potential, stringing together victories and making the playoffs.  Then, with all post season opponents looking past them, makes a deep run. 

 

Half Empty:  You look for Jordan Love to start off struggling to read NFL defenses and figure he gets off to a slow start. 

Half Full:  Three years on the sideline observing the savvy of Aaron Rodgers will have taught Love to analyze and react effectively to what he sees across the line of scrimmage, resulting in surprisingly good poise and execution. 

 

Half Empty:  You expect Christian Watson to be in and out of the line-up much of the season with a continuation of the nagging injuries he seems prone to. 

Half Full:  An offseason of building up his body, combined with the emergence of other receiving alternatives to lessen the amount of hits he takes, and his California workouts with his quarterback, result in a seventeen game injury-free season, and stats that place him among the league’s elite receivers. 

 

Half Empty:  You’re girding for the prospect of Green Bay’s offensive line likely suffering the normal amount of injuries, resulting in the necessity to shuffle the front five, forcing guys like Jake Hanson and Sean Rhyan into the line-up, greatly reducing the effectiveness of the unit. 

Half Full:  You’re pretty sure the starting five of Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Myers, Runyon and Nijman will not only stay healthy, but jell together with greater consistency as the season goes on, paving the way for a devastating running game, which in turn opens up passing lanes for Love. 

 

Half Empty:  You fully expect a defense that remains essentially what it has been under Joe Barry.  Middle of the pack. 

Half Full:  You see the development into stars of players like Quay Walker, Devonte Wyatt and Eric Stokes, a return to greatness for Rashan Gary, a big farewell season for Preston Smith, a first team All Pro campaign for Jaire Alexander.  A unit so talented that it can overcome questionable coaching to be top five in the league. 

 

Half Empty:  You feel Keisean Nixon’s return stats come back down to earth as opponents begin to game plan and adjust their coverage units to contain him, or just kick the ball away from him. 

Half Full:  Those adjustments result in short kicks which give the Packers great field position anyway, eventually resulting in teams going back to having to kick the ball deep, whereupon Nixon gets chances again and continues his incredible string of long returns. 

 

Half Empty:  You fear a long and painful search for a consistent place kicker to replace the legend that was Mason Crosby. 

Half Full:  Despite a less than consistent college accuracy percentage, Anders Carlson immediately adapts to the cold climate and the NFL talent level to overcome his erratic record and become the man for years to come. 

 

Half Empty:  You figure you will wince as you watch losses begin to mount up and the hope of the playoffs fade, and then have to listen to Matt LaFleur constantly answering questions about his job security. 

Half Full:  You have no doubt that, by December, LaFleur’s team is the surprise talk of the league and he is being touted as the favorite to win the Coach of the Year award he has come so close to winning in the past.   

 

Half Empty:  You buy the hype about the Lions and the Bears.  You think the Lions are sure fire division winners and the Bears had so much cap money and high draft picks that they can’t help but get better and possibly surpass Green Bay. 

Half Full:  You understand that the Packers were one quarter away from beating the Lions and going to the playoffs last year.  You also know the Lions will play a second place schedule this season, not a last place one,while Green Bay plays a somewhat easier third place slate.  As for the Bears, you fully comprehend that any team that goes 3-14, no matter how weak the supporting cast, must have a below average quarterback. 

 

Half Empty:  You are a fan of CBS Sports commentator Adam Schein, who has predicted Green Bay will be the second worst team in the NFL this season, and who claims Brian Gutekunst ruined the franchise by trading Davante Adams and Aaron Rodgers in consecutive years.

Half Full:  Unlike Adam Schein, you actually follow the Packers, and understand that, prior to the 2021 season, the franchise didn't have the money to pay Adams because of the Aaron Rodgers contract, and subsequently Adams informed the team following the season he would not play for them again. He left the team no choice but to trade him.  Rodgers had made up his mind he was done playing in Green Bay, admitting he was 90 percent sure he was going to retire going into his darkness retreat.  Perhaps, you are more of a fan of ESPN commentator Dan Orlovsky, who feels that if Jordan Love is even just average, the Packers are talented enough to be in the playoff hunt.

 

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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.

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10 points
 

Comments (63)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
greengold's picture

July 24, 2023 at 06:05 am

FULL to the brim.

LFG GPG

12 points
12
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Guam's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:18 am

You and NickPerry carry the "G" better than anyone else GreenGold! I love your optimism!

I think you once called me the "cautious voice of reason" and I still fall into that category. I think the Packers have more talent than many national writers are giving them credit for, but I see question marks with the inexperienced passing game and the coaching staff. I think the passing game develops steadily over the season and will be much better at the end of the season than at the start.

The coaching staff I just don't know about. LaFleur wasn't able to make in-game adjustments even with Rodgers, how does he make them with an inexperienced QB1? Barry will have talent to work with, but his scheme is so passive that I fear that talent might get masked by a scheme ill suited to them. We will see what the season brings.

I still believe the Packers could win this division and finish with 10 wins. That would be a full cup for me in 2023.

4 points
7
3
greengold's picture

July 24, 2023 at 10:15 am

Thanks Guam! My nature is both positive & optimistic. But, the analytics aren’t lost on me, nor the issues we’ve witnessed.

***LONG POST

Some things add up to me, some things don’t. Like, I don’t think these are stupid people running the show at 1265. Murphy has his deficiencies, has made his errors. Haven’t we all?

The ones I’m pointing to are Gutekunst, LaFleur & Barry. Bisaccia has my complete confidence, 100%.

What doesn’t add up to me with Gutekunst are some of his errors, ones we as fans could instantaneously point out in real time from afar, that distance of a fan’s perspective. But they do add up in that every GM makes that mistake numerous times, with the best of the best limiting them as their careers progress. Personally, I see him now working at a very high level, possibly ascending these last 2 years, and consider us fortunate.

I don’t know about the coaches either, but here’s what makes sense to me:
1. LaFleur got cockblocked.
2. Barry didn’t have all the players.
3. Bisaccia is a go.

LaFleur is no dummy. Lost in many discussion involving him & his leadership is the total & complete buy-in from current players. A ton of proving remains from here on out. But… that buy-in! I like what we’ve seen, 2 days before TC.

You currently hear no dissent. Zero. Aaron Rodgers was loaded with dissent. He did what he wanted, not what LaFleur wanted, and my belief is that was mandated upon LaFleur by Murphy.

I saw that spin out of control Draft Day 1, 2021 and had ZERO HOPE for our Packers ultimate success from that point on thru his being traded. Packers success to me is winning Super Bowls. Period. There should be no other quest.

Thank God, that is over. Now, we’re back in business.

As for Barry, I can’t help but feel this D is the brainchild of both LaFleur & Gutekunst, and Barry was offered a partnership in developing what we will see beginning 2023. That’s my guess.

It adds up when you consider:
1. LaFleur stated such in presser after Barry’s hiring.

2. It was going to require a minimum of 1/2 of 3 drafts before Gutekunst could assemble the players needed to run that, given cap restraints.

3. There’s not been one instance of holding Barry’s feet to the fire.

Lastly, these guys are planners. They planned that intricate navigation of moving AR out, which as you elegantly stated was needed by both sides. I wouldn’t doubt if they didn’t spend 2 years working with the Jets on that.

Add it up. AR sure seemed 100% out in GB 2022.

They plan years out for the development of their players. It’s not out of the realm of possibility they knew with only limited resources, that Defense we were promised wouldn’t begin to be fully staffed with players to run it until year 3.

We ALL got pissed off last year because nothing made sense on D. You know what would make sense about that? If The Packer brass decided the season was a wash with malcontented, lame duck AR, a defensive roster only 2/3 built out with scheme specific players, and they pointedly limited what they put on film. Yes? No? I’m going with a resounding YES!

It’s exciting. Now we get to see Matt and his Offense, Barry and his Defense, Joe and his STs. 2023 has a “Year 1” feel to it, but with years of dedicated planning & talent ready to go.

Apologies for the length.

LFG GPG

0 points
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

July 24, 2023 at 09:16 am

I knew that and sometimes a little spills over the top.

5 points
6
1
NickPerry's picture

July 24, 2023 at 06:18 am

LOL...If my "Self Proclaimed #1 Homer" status of the Green Bay Packers isn't enough, I'm not sure what more can add that I haven't all offseason. Maybe I'm delusional, but I will ALWAYS be full to the top on the GBP until it's obvious I can't be, and then I'll still be at least half-full.

The Lions come back to earth, the Vikings REALLY come back to earth, and the Bears still SUCK!

15 points
17
2
BradHTX's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:37 am

NickPerry: The definition of “All Gas, No Effin’ Brakes!”

3 points
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NickPerry's picture

July 24, 2023 at 06:25 am

"You are a fan of CBS Sports commentator Adam Schein, who has predicted Green Bay will be the second worst team in the NFL this season, and who claims Brian Gutekunst ruined the franchise by trading Davante Adams and Aaron Rodgers in consecutive years.

This due is a "Clickbait" whore, Adam Schein LOVES Aaron Rodgers, not the Packers. Sometimes I would listen to Schein every once in a while on the way to the office after a big Packers victory. He gave ALL the credit to Rodgers, ALWAYS, and very little to the other 52 players and coaches who also played in the game.

He's a PUTZ!

11 points
14
3
ReaganRulz's picture

July 24, 2023 at 06:55 am

“Surprise talk of the league”. Yes Please!!

Maybe adding Tom as a starter on the OL would make it more tasty. But the lineup with Nijman and Myers listed should work kinda like powdered creamer vs. real creamer!!

Also interesting to see a trend around the league of rookie TE’s having more impact from Day One. Just saw another TE article on LaPorte in Detroit. This may all be secret messaging to motivate the players, but I still hope this trend comes true in GBP Land!!

7 points
7
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Ferrari-Driver's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:07 am

I tend to be optimistic, but what I expect and want to see is a team that comes out from the start of the season and every single game playing with enthusiasm, confidence in that they are well prepared, and give us 60 minutes of relentless effort to win.

16 points
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NickPerry's picture

July 24, 2023 at 02:40 pm

YES!!

1 points
1
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stockholder's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:10 am

I'll take the 1/2 Full.
All the way to a .500 season. No playoffs.
I feel scammed. Not because Adams left.
And not because Rodgers was finally traded.
But it's obvious there are a lot of questions.
And I just don't feel Love can make players better.
Players will leave because God will tell them too.

-18 points
3
21
Oppy's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:18 am

You should take up gardening.
You will learn how to prune a tree for growth.

12 points
14
2
CentralPA_PackFan's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:40 am

Good analogy! Nature's version of the old "Addition by subtraction."

5 points
7
2
Packers0808's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:29 am

Shortman in so many ways!

4 points
6
2
packer132's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:05 am

SH: I wish I had your ability to see into the future. Love won't make players better? What? Did you think Rodgers would make players better in his first year of starting for the Packers? I am happy to read all the other posts by Packer fans who are excited for the season. You have already given up before training camp. I really feel sorry for you.

8 points
11
3
lou's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:34 am

Excellent article breaking down the possible highs and lows of a long season, if the team can have more highs than lows in the categories listed the playoffs are a possibility. Enjoyed your reference at the end reminding everyone why Reggie White signed with the Packers, a little humor is always good. And by the way remember when they thought Reggie was going to be out for he season and he showed up at Holmgren's house and said he was healed - and he was, a Miracle.

5 points
5
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stockholder's picture

July 24, 2023 at 10:01 am

I’ll just keep being independent.
Self - Confidence goes a long way,
{ if you don’t want to be Nonconformist.}

-1 points
3
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HawkPacker's picture

July 24, 2023 at 11:49 am

Ok Stock. Here is a test.

The packers have two excellent RB's and either can start. One is Aaron Jones and who is the other?

1 points
4
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T7Steve's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:39 pm

Your glass is half full of vinegar or oil?

-1 points
1
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mnbadger's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:50 pm

Stkhldr, I don't feel scammed, but you still had me in agreement right up to the last sentence.
Please list the players that have god as an inner circle confidant and/or agent that will be told to leave.
Where would god tell a player to go?
I always thought Lambeau was god's house?
Is he telling them to go because they no longer bring value toward winning super bowls? If so, I'm all in favor of his holy guidance. a little help from Gutey too, though!
GPG!

0 points
2
2
RCPackerFan's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:11 am

I don't care how much is in the glass, it is always Full. Only time its empty is when there is absolutely nothing in the glass. If there is 1/8, 1/4, 3/4, 7/8 in the glass its always that plus full.

"Half Full: Three years on the sideline observing the savvy of Aaron Rodgers will have taught Love to analyze and react effectively to what he sees across the line of scrimmage, resulting in surprisingly good poise and execution. "
-This is Loves team now. But lets not forget who is running the offense. LaFleur comes from the background of McVay and Shannahan. Lets not forget that those offense have flourished without star QB's. Love doesn't have to be a Star to be successful. He just needs to run the offense. 3 years behind Rodgers, he is primed to be good to go. While it might not always be great, it is his time now.

"Half Full: An offseason of building up his body, combined with the emergence of other receiving alternatives to lessen the amount of hits he takes, and his California workouts with his quarterback, result in a seventeen game injury-free season, and stats that place him among the league’s elite receivers. "
-An offseason in the NFL is different then an offseason preparing to play in the NFL. Watson knows the offense and will be ready for stardom.

"Half Full: You’re pretty sure the starting five of Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Myers, Runyon and Nijman will not only stay healthy, but jell together with greater consistency as the season goes on, paving the way for a devastating running game, which in turn opens up passing lanes for Love. "
-Bakhtiari and Jenkins are fully healthy and ready to go. Myers got over his freak injuries his rookie year. Runyan is settling in at RG and Tom will be the starting RT. Our OL is top 5 in the league!

"Half Full: You see the development into stars of players like Quay Walker, Devonte Wyatt and Eric Stokes, a return to greatness for Rashan Gary, a big farewell season for Preston Smith, a first team All Pro campaign for Jaire Alexander. A unit so talented that it can overcome questionable coaching to be top five in the league. "
-Douglas playing outside CB, with Alexander covering the other teams top WR, Stokes eventually playing the other outside CB gives us a great trio of CB's. Walker in year 2, to go with a healthy Campbell forms the best ILB duo in the league. When Gary comes back he is providing us the difference maker. Until then Wyatt next to Clark and Slaton forms a great DL. With 2 rookies that will be a factor especially in the passing game. Oh and we have found the defensive rookie of the year in Van Ness! He is bringing a combination of the Watt bros, and will be dominating the OLB from day 1.

"Half Full: You have no doubt that, by December, LaFleur’s team is the surprise talk of the league and he is being touted as the favorite to win the Coach of the Year award he has come so close to winning in the past. "
-This is LaFleurs time to shine. While the weaponry is young, they are extremely talented. Its his time for his true offense to shine.

"Half Full: You understand that the Packers were one quarter away from beating the Lions and going to the playoffs last year. You also know the Lions will play a second place schedule this season, not a last place one,while Green Bay plays a somewhat easier third place slate. As for the Bears, you fully comprehend that any team that goes 3-14, no matter how weak the supporting cast, must have a below average quarterback. "
-The talk about the Lions is great for them. But perhaps they overachieved last year. Bears are a team that is hoping to build for the future. But they don't have much for defense and their QB is questionable. The Vikings also lost a ton of key pieces and they also overachieved last year.
This division is anyone's game.

"Half Full: Unlike Adam Schein, you actually follow the Packers, and understand that, prior to the 2021 season, the franchise didn't have the money to pay Adams because of the Aaron Rodgers contract, and subsequently Adams informed the team following the season he would not play for them again. He left the team no choice but to trade him. Rodgers had made up his mind he was done playing in Green Bay, admitting he was 90 percent sure he was going to retire going into his darkness retreat. Perhaps, you are more of a fan of ESPN commentator Dan Orlovsky, who feels that if Jordan Love is even just average, the Packers are talented enough to be in the playoff hunt."
-Last year the Packers were the last game away from making the playoffs. That was with Rodgers never throwing for more then 300 yards in any game. The most passing yards he had in game was 291. In fact he only had 3 games with more then 250 yards passing all season. Clearly his thumb was the main culprit. But also he didn't have Adams, he had 2 rookie WR's. A veteran in Watkins that was simply not good. Cobb who is past his prime and Lazard who got hurt before the year got started. The OL had some struggles and were unsettled for half the year as well. Tonyan never returned to pre injury form.
This year, Watson, Doubs and Toure are entering year 2, and are primed to break out. They drafted Reed, Musgrave and Kraft. The OL is healthy, and have their key players in the right positions.

This team is going to surprise a lot of people. They were 1 game away from playoffs with the QB play being average at best. With better weapons around the QB and better protection in front of him, they are set to make the new starting QB a lot better!

5 points
8
3
Renllaw's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:18 am

Love this take! But I think I need two glasses.... I'm half full on over 3/4's of them. But I also think some of those positive assumptions wont go the way we hope, while the areas I think we might struggle in have just as good of a chance to surprise me. This is going to be the most interesting season as a fan in decades, Can. Not. Wait! LETS GO PACK!

2 points
5
3
Boneman's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:19 am

Fun article and surprisingly on point. Like politics there does seem to be two main camps of Packer fans. Beware the fake news of the national dialogue and trust the local observers and players who really have the most information to go on. This is setting up to be the most thrilling season in recent memory. We had become used to high expectations and crushing playoff losses since that magical run over a decade ago. Time to build reputations instead of holding on to them. That cup looks more than half full to me!

10 points
11
1
Handsback's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:29 am

The title of the article is perfect. It’s how I’m summing up this season. One thing I don’t get with the national sports writers is their own expectations. They speculate that the rookie QBs drafted in the first round this year will lead their less talented team verses the Packers to better records than the Packers who at least have a QB with some experience.
That I don’t understand.
Just MHO

4 points
5
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

July 24, 2023 at 10:19 am

They think Rodgers to Love is a major downgrade.
Carolina's QBs' combined PR was 80.2. Young might be better.
Houston's QBs' combined PR was 76.8. Stroud might be better.
Indy's QBs combined PR was 79.2. Richardson might be better.

I suspect that the drop off from Rodgers to Love might not be really large, though it could be. AR's worst games for passer ratings are listed below with WRs by number of snaps played:

WK 9 (53..) Lazard, Watkins, Watson (17), Doubs (1) Cobb (0)
WK 1 (67..) Watkins, Watson, Doubs, Cobb
WK 15 (78) Lazard, Doubs, Cobb, Watkins, Watson (25)
WK 17 (83) Lazard, Watson, Doubs, Cobb
WK 6 (88.1) Lazard, Doubs, Cobb, Watson (0)
WK 4 (89.1) Lazard, Doubs, Cobb, Watson (25 off injury)
WK 8 (91.4) Lazard, Doubs, Cobb, Watson (6)
WK 14 (92) Watson, Lazard, Cobb, Doubs (23), Watkins (17)

I agree with RC that AR's broken thumb harmed his performance. I think the bigger factor was having a really terrible wide receiver room joined to a really terrible TE room, at least for receiving purposes. I see a #6 WR masquerading as the #1 WR in week one plus two rookies playing in their very first NFL game trying to be the #2 and #3 WRs. Ugh. I see a #3 WR impersonating a #1 WR in 6 other games. I love Doubs' talent, but he had no business being the #2 WR in so many games.

If Watson can stay healthy, he can be a legitimate #1 WR in 17 games instead of the six games he was 100% that AR got. Doubs has to blossom in order to be as good as or better than Lazard. Reed/Toure need to be as good as Cobb, who was an average WR. I am confidant that Dubose, Wicks, Melton, etc., can be better than Watkins.

Make no mistake: Watson has to be healthy. Doubs has to be healthy and considerably better. Reed can't need a year. Someone else has to step up. It seems reasonable to suppose that Musgrave and Kraft will provide more receiving prowess than AR got last year, though the blocking might suffer. I suspect Watson, Doubs, Musgrave, and perhaps Reed will provide Love with better receivers, while a healthier OL provides more time.

6 points
6
0
Leatherhead's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:57 pm

Well, Rodgers had the #27 QBR last year, so if Love isn't better than that, we're boned. I appreciate you finding reasons involving his performance that don't involve him, but that's not what I'm seeing when I re-watch. What I'm seeing is an old guy throwing off his back foot, who never makes things happen with his legs, who can't throw hard strikes down the middle, and who doesn't see open guys. I also look at some of the other QBs who had a similar QBR to Rodgers......and their receiving corps weren't that special.

Andy Dalton in New Orleans? Taylor Heinecke in Washington? Zach Wilson with the Jets? These guys were all throwing to better guys than Rodgers? I don't think so. He had the worst QBR in the division, by a long shot.

Our TE room might have been terrible, but Tonyan caught over 50 balls last year, which was about middle of the pack for TEs. Please stop trying to make Rodgers smell better by smearing crap on others. He played poorly last year, and that's what it was. I'd be really surprised if Love isn't better..

1 points
5
4
T7Steve's picture

July 24, 2023 at 01:00 pm

Thanks for that TGR.

You added just a little of the secret sauce: "will provide Love with better receivers, while a healthier OL provides more time."

List the O-line snap counts in those games. It's not a thumb poor QB play or coincidence.

The O-line / secret sauce will stand the Packers this season, far apart from the Packers of last season.

0 points
0
0
TxFred's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:51 am

Half full. Lots of exciting and fun things, from steady development individually and as units and team. Confidence each week. Injury free, this should be a team with positive attitude, speed like we haven't seen in years. GPG !!!!!

4 points
5
1
egbertsouse's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:52 am

Studies have shown that people with reasonable expectations are generally happier. I expect a 6 win season. If they are 8-9 when January rolls around, I will be happy as hell. Most of you will be pissing and moaning.

6 points
8
2
SicSemperTyrannis's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:42 pm

I HOPE for at least 6 wins, matching AR12's first year as a starter. I also hope JL10 matches his third year production ;)

2025 is my focus, and building towards then ...

2 points
2
0
Oppy's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:24 pm

I believe the Packers go 11-6 in 2023.
If they fail to win 11 games, I won't be upset, pissing and moaning, etc..
I'll just be wrong.

Worse things have happened.

1 points
1
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greengold's picture

July 24, 2023 at 09:39 pm

This would make a perfect public service announcement.

0 points
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0
Ima Payne's picture

July 25, 2023 at 11:39 am

I right there too. 6 or 7 wins is about what I envision the talent on this team to be, any more and its gravy. Hey you want the playoffs? Draft better and spend more on free agents to fill holes.

1 points
1
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Charvid's picture

July 24, 2023 at 07:56 am

Half full or half empty is a pretty dualistic way of thinking. There is another viewpoint which is “ The glass is re-fillable”.The Packers refill the glass as well as any team in the league.
Love will be better than average (which is all Roger’s was in 2022) and we should improve by at least 2 games to at least 10-7 and maybe even 11-6. I’ll happily take that.
The narrative that AR single-handedly won games for GB is terribly outdated. It’s possible he held this roster back more than he elevated it—at least last year.

13 points
15
2
Tundraboy's picture

July 24, 2023 at 11:03 pm

"He held this roster back more than he elevated it—at least last year.'

Absolutely. There were games where it was so obvious. Looked like he was feeling hell if Im having a bad game then the team was just going to have a bad day.

2 points
2
0
Rory P Scrotem's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:03 am

This is a really good read and excellent evaluation of the current state of affairs with the Packers. The key this year is that of totally staying healthy. The glass will be 1/2 full some weeks & half empty on some others. Should the injury bug hit (God forbid), the current glass ceiling will shatter. I say wear rose-colored glasses. SAME GOES FOR THE JETS!

6 points
6
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:45 pm

Dervin, I see depth all over. Depth is nearly as important as starters and more important in case of early injury. I hope we can trust every coach to be fully aware of this and developing everybody on the 90 man roster as much as possible.

1 points
2
1
Leatherhead's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:09 am

I've been watching the Packers put teams on the field for over 50 years, and this is a pretty good one. I think it'll be better than last year's team.

5 points
7
2
Tundraboy's picture

July 24, 2023 at 11:04 pm

I'm thinking the same. There a lot to like about this years roster.

1 points
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TXCHEESE's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:48 am

Talent wise, I think GB has many reasons for 1/2 full expectations. I believe this squad is out to prove they can be pretty good without Rodgers and some of the old guard. I KNOW I'm exited to watch these guys compete in camp and on into the season. Last year was watching the proverbial train wreck in slow motion. Too many times seeing the old guys with hands on their hips and doubt in their eyes.

7 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:47 pm

TX, that's what I'm sayin'!

2 points
2
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TarynsEyes's picture

July 24, 2023 at 09:20 am

Let's move on from the half full/empty bs.

If you have a full glass of optimism and a full glass of reality (aka pessimism), which one usually evaporates more while the other remains truer to its filling.

One does outdo the other, sometimes, but not nearly as often as one hopes for. A few teams can defeat the parity factors, but parity is why one glass is always evaporating and one stays truer. When a team gets shoveled into the parity, it isn't easy to dig out of it, especially if based mostly on hope and ifs.

The NFL has a few levels of parity, and the Packers have, over the last decade+ played to the expected parity group placed in. They've been downgraded and rightfully so, which opens the prospect for their success value to be depreciated even if at the top of the lesser parity group in which they reside, until a legitimate reality is produced. Perhaps that is this season or next, but it has to actually happen first. I rather enjoy getting more than the lower expectation, than to endure the sorrow of failure to achieve the impossible lade upon them.

7 points
10
3
Leatherhead's picture

July 24, 2023 at 01:08 pm

I don't understand how you became the authority on reality. I mean, I'm older than you, played more football, watched more football, coached more football....., I have a degree, I have a graduate degree.....I'm not understanding why I have to yield to your definition of reality.

-4 points
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TarynsEyes's picture

July 24, 2023 at 01:38 pm

"I'm not understanding why I have to yield to your definition of reality."

The last sentence is all I retort to, as the rest means squat to me.

You don't, and I never said you have to. Just like I don't have to yield to your optimism. I only ask that my opinion be respected, whether you believe it right or wrong.

7 points
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2
TKWorldWide's picture

July 24, 2023 at 09:39 am

Hope springs eternal, lest we lose sight of ambition. The classic underdog beating the odds (as well as the spread.)

Great warriors attempt great things. (Last night we had tacos, so I grated some cheese.) They acknowledge failure as a possibility but are steadfast in their definition therein. Giannis Antetokounmpo recently discarded the very notion, stating, “there is no failure.”
The other day at the gym I attempted to do 21 reps and experienced momentary muscular failure, and yet emerged all the better.

Fear and loathing can paralyze. Words make my mouth exercise. Even a skydiver knows the risks he or she undertakes, yet they confront and overcome their fears. For a long time, The Undertaker was Undefeated at Wrestlemania. I’m afraid of sharks, but I wouldn’t be if we had a bigger boat.

Rise, oh cheeseheads, rise and conquer!
I am unable to command the dragons.

5 points
5
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greengold's picture

July 24, 2023 at 11:53 am

I did swim in a cage with hundreds of Galapagos Tiger sharks off the North Shore of Oahu. Wow. Crystal clear water, could see them as far as the eye could see. The entire time underwater I could hear the whales singing. Sheer terror, beauty & wonder, all in one.

Now, about those tacos? Go on…

Lol

6 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:50 pm

Cheese grating warriors, lol

5 points
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LeotisHarris's picture

July 24, 2023 at 02:23 pm

A standing O for your entire post, TK. And cookies!

4 points
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TKWorldWide's picture

July 24, 2023 at 02:48 pm

Thank you, Leotis, for bringing us a higher love!

2 points
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greengold's picture

July 24, 2023 at 03:04 pm

Standing O for tacos!

2 points
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1
croatpackfan's picture

July 24, 2023 at 10:07 am

I would be sorry if this Packers project fails. They invested lot in building this team and by my opinion have seasoned players on every level of the team (well, maybe not at WR, but have a lot of talent and some experience). For me, even if Packers will have negative score at the end of the season, but show promise for the future I will take that with hope and approval.

For this season I hope that Packers show the world that youth can be very good, excellent and that depending on "old" forces is mistake. If you want to be successful you'll need to combine youth with experience. Youth will make mistakes and experienced one should help them to overcome mistakes.

I expect team that will be better every snap, every game and finally be rewarded with good result.

5 points
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LGDaub's picture

July 24, 2023 at 10:17 am

Half Full: You anticipate a team that by December begins to peak, making the playoffs.

I won’t say ‘deep run,’ but otherwise this is close to my prediction…

Half Empty: You look for Jordan Love to start off struggling to read NFL defenses and figure he gets off to a slow start.

The whole offense will, as the run-first OL replace the pass-first OL and the new receivers learn to handle defenders. See below.

Christian Watson
No way to know. Injuries can be random events.

Half Empty: offensive line
The talent is there, but one slip on any kind of turf = knee injury for any OL.

Fearless prediction #3563523136377… the OL who can run block will take over as starters from the pass-protector veterans. Just as any NFL-caliber OL can prefer the one block scheme but be OK at the other, the run-blockers will be adequate in pass protection. JL is a mobile QB.

Half Empty: You fully expect a defense that remains essentially what it has been under Joe Barry.

The talent is there, but the DC sucks the life out of the squad with his play-calling and personnel selections.

Half Empty: You feel Keisean Nixon’s return stats come back down to earth.

I’m half full on ‘kicker position will be OK’ but have no opinion on his name. If AC fails, there’s always another K in Gutey’s Rolodex. And the O-scheme will work harder to make the kicking option come from closer to the end zone, making the kicks easier on the kicker.

Half Full: You have no doubt that, by December, LaFleur’s team is the surprise talk of the league and he is being touted as the favorite to win the Coach of the Year award he has come so close to winning in the past.

Half Empty: You think the Lions are sure fire division winners.
Half Full: You understand that Green Bay plays a somewhat easier third place slate.

0 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:55 pm

LG, I can see the case for picking O linemen based on excelling at pass blocking and adequate at run blocking. Depth behind 3 or four locked to start is hopefully still a real competition.

2 points
2
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Ima Payne's picture

July 25, 2023 at 11:37 am

Ya one thing weve all seen over the years is if you have a QB who tosses as many picks as td passes - Travaris Jackson and Geno Smith come to mind, the team starts to fall apart around it. Then its name calling and the search for a new QB enters the whisper area.

0 points
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HarryHodag's picture

July 24, 2023 at 11:49 am

I'm glad training camp is here. That's full enough for me!

Schein is one on the national sports media dopes.

6 points
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

July 24, 2023 at 12:40 pm

Ken -

great conversation starter! I don't fit either half full or half empty. IF we only win 6 games? I'd be ok with that but it's by no means a prediction. I wouldn't be too surprised by 11 wins either.

What I want to see most is 100% effort from every player on every down in every game, all season long. If that becomes normal for this team this season it should be much easier to make that last for a decade or more. That's what we didn't see last year, for whatever reasons. By itself that's not enough to win the division, but added to this organization it would go a long way. It would also require the coaching staff doing something right!

I'm not making any predictions about who gets cut, who's on the PS or who's on the final roster either. Not outside the obvious veterans. I want to see the coaching staff creating honest competition at TC, and they don't have to create the final roster until after all pre-season games are played, right? Meanwhile nobody's worn pads. I don't want to rush this process, and I hope we use TC better than any other team. :)

All this is entirely different from whatever coaches might do during the regular season.

Bears will of course improve, which still says exactly nothing. Obviously we hope Vikings and Lions both regress; 6 divisional games will be played.

I do think JL10 will surpass National expectations. I'm less worried about the health of one WR and more focused on depth. 8 WRs should stay between final roster + PS, if not more. That's a LOT of talent, with some of the necessary cuts not being at all obvious. Yet.

O linemen currently on the roster are LOADED with talent! At least 13 kept including final roster + PS? These will be some of the hardest cuts to make and I know MLF isn't looking forward to that. I don't join in predicting who's in. I do hope to get a good look at some practices.

D linemen have more question marks but still include a LOT of talent; our pass rush might prove to be devastating :) I see ways to have 7 blitz with 4 in coverage. I'm not calling any plays but let's say I hope to see JB more aggressive in scheme this season. DBs have question marks; we'll find out if there are weaknesses in our roster there that need to be addressed next year.

I HOPE we find out what depth we have behind #28, 33, and 69. I doubt we have the cap space to keep all 3 next season so it's important to create opportunities to plumb this depth somehow. Hopefully without costing a win.

Every position group has real roster battles, hopefully the whole coaching staff excels with it. That'll be a huge part of how this season turns out, and doesn't begin to factor in any opponents.

GPG!

4 points
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Packers0808's picture

July 24, 2023 at 04:38 pm

Packers more than half full, 11-6 season

2 points
3
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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

July 24, 2023 at 04:53 pm

🍻

1 points
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Since'61's picture

July 24, 2023 at 05:09 pm

No expectations for this season. Team could win as few as 6 games or less or as many as 10-11 games and reach the playoffs if everything breaks correctly for the Packers. For me this season will be a about watching the Packers learning to come together as a team and waiting to see if the team comes on stronger as the season progresses.

The Packers will enter 2023 with one of the youngest teams in the league, particularly on offense. It’s one of the youngest Packer teams that I can remember in my entire Packers fanship of 62 seasons.

The youth of this team is driving excitement for the upcoming season but it also leaves us with little actual knowledge about this team and it has created numerous questions which won’t be answered until well into the season at least. We know that injuries and the schedule are big over arching factors for any season. The Packers early season schedule appears to favor them on paper but that doesn't really mean anything. 4-1 or 3-2 at the bye week will be good starts. TC will answer our roster qestions by Week 1. But even then the questions for the 2023 team will remain.

First and most important question mark is the coaching staff. Will the coaching staff improve their decision making and in game adjustments? Will they have the team better prepared for each game? Will they improve how they handle situational football? Will they provide better leadership and motivation both before and during games?

Second question mark is new starting QB Jordan Love. How long will it take for the game to “slow down” for him? How long before he can read defenses accurately? Will he make good decisions with the football especially in pressure situations?
None these and many other questions about Love’s play can be answered until he is on the field week after week.

QB play is often the output of the OL play.
The left side of the Packers OL is solid thanks to Bak and Jenkins. But the Center and right side of the OL are questions marks heading into the 2023 season. Myers was adequate in 2022 but he needs to take a step up this season. Runyon is another adequate OL who needs to step up. The RT spot is open for now but Zach Tom is the best bet for now. (This could change by the end of TC).

The receiving corps is virtually unknown. By default Watson and Doubs are #s 1 and 2. The rest have little to zero NFL experience including the TEs. Even Watson and Doubs have yet to play an entire NFL season yet. Hopefully this position group improves as the season goes on.

Fortunately for the Packers the RB group is in great hands with Jones and Dillon. If the right side of the OL steps up as needed the Packers ground game could carry the offense through the early season and maybe the entire season.

Similar to the offense the Packers defense has numerous questions as they enter 2023.
DL - after Clark the DL has only question marks with either their second year players and rookie draft picks. Will the DL be able to come together and stop the run game or will the Packers continue to be literally run over for yet another season.
OLBs - The key to the Packers pass rush and the defense overall will be the return of Rashon Gary, when will it happen and when will he be able to play at 100%. Personally I’ll be happy if he can return at 100% following the Packers bye week. I hope that the Packers do not make the mistake of having him return too soon.
ILBs - More questions. Will Campbell return to his 2021 form? Does Walker take a step up in play and also eliminate his bone headed penalties? Who is the depth behind the starters?
CBs- The starters, Alexander, Douglas and Nixon in the slot is a solid group. Depth behind them?
Safety - The question at Safety is clearly are any of these guys legit NFL players?
Savage was benched last season, Ford is a career special teamer, T.Moore ruptured his Achilles tendon in 2021 and went from
Starter to Special teams, Leavitt has been strictly a ST player and finally Owens played for the Texans in 2022. Playing for Houston does not necessarily indicate that Owens is an NFL caliber player.
STs - Have the Packers found their Place kicker? We won’t know until he kicks at crunch time in the wind, sleet, snow and cold at Lambeau.

Leadership who will emerge as the field leaders for this team? Aaron Jones could take a leadership role for the offense at least early in the season. Possibly Jenkins on the OL. Defensively, Gary when he returns, Alexander and Campbell are some of the potential candidates for on field leadership.
What about Jordan Love? Leadership like respect needs to be earned. As Jordan evolves as an NFL QB his leadership skills will emerge as well.

During MLF's time here we have not seen much leadership from the coaching staff except for arm flapping from MLF. This needs to improve and hopefully it will during this season.

Identity. will this young Packers team begin to develop an identity during this season? Will learning how to play together forge the team's identity for the next few/several seasons? We can't answer that now only time will tell. Can the coaching staff stamp their identity onto the team as Lombardi did with the great 60s teams? Another step that this coaching staff needs to take.

As I've posted previously, the pressure in 2023 is not on Jordan Love. The pressure for 2023 is on the coaching staff, the OL, the defense and our division opponents. Our division opponents have been waiting 30 years not to play against a Packers HOF QB. Will their prayers finally be answered or will the Packers 3rd straight great QB begin to emerge in 2023? Once again I don't have any expectations either way. I'm just looking forward to enjoying the ride.
Thanks, Since '61

5 points
5
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greengold's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:52 pm

Very well put, Since’61, and good to see you back! Hope you enjoyed your break.

Should prove to be a fun ride with key starters returning at OL and RB. Two of the most important positions for any new QB1. Watson and Doubs have a full season’s experience. Toure same in system but with fewer reps. Love’s offseason workouts with the rookies, plus Watson, Doubs & Jones encouraging.

I think a number of the new players will surprise. Same with the new players on D. It’s an overwhelming turnover in talent on both sides of the ball.

What that huge percentage of youthful players brings is quite unique. The shared bond of that youth. There’s enthusiasm there. Cockiness. Reckless abandon. Chips on every shoulder, along with a lot of talent, toughness & speed.

Key veterans at every position group save for WR and TE to help show them the way.

Watson, the son of a former Packer player looks to have come back much stronger, as did Doubs & Toure. Self starters learning their way with that paternal mentorship on how to be a Pro. They’ll make mistakes like anyone learning. But, veteran players dropped more passes last year than the rookies. Bakhtiari said recently with much of the OL still in tact, they’ll be able to work on additional adjustments & concepts. Even the vets will be learning - including a ton of Jet packages!

The staff knows they must deliver, without question, but imagine how motivated they are to do so. They deserve the opportunity to show what they have, with all the players to run their schemes.

I’m excited to sit back and watch it all come together, with team unity like we have not seen in years, all-in.

LFG GPG

1 points
2
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Since'61's picture

July 24, 2023 at 10:37 pm

Good points as always green gold. If everything breaks right it can all come together. But I also believe that it will take time. 2023 will be the year for learning to play together and hopefully laying the foundation for a team identity over the next several seasons. 2024 the season for learning how to win together. 2025 for everything to come together and a deep playoff run hopefully going all the way. That's the ride I'm looking forward to enjoy.

I've never really commented very much during the off season. I prefer to assess the team and the players based on their play during the actual regular season games and the playoffs. Plus a break enables me to see everything a little differently when I return. Enables me to adjust/modify my perspective of the team. I'll be in and out until the regular season begins. I expect to go all in as usual at that point. Stay well.
Thanks, Since '61

1 points
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joejetson's picture

July 24, 2023 at 08:45 pm

We are in the "Educated Guess" stage at this point. IMO last season showed some excellent potential with flashes from some young players (Watson, Doubs, Walker). We also still have a fairly solid core of veterans (Bakh, Jenkins, Alexander, Campbell, Clark, both RB's), but realistically there are still a lot of questions marks. We had what appears to be a good draft, so what remains to be seen is can the coaching staff get a lot of young players ready to play all at once? This is where my apprehension starts. I don't have a lot of confidence in LaFluer or Barry. They have shown me they will keep underperformers in the lineup too long instead of trying something or someone new. For examples, I think back on the Kevin King debacles, last year playing Sammy Watkins, and letting the Special Teams fester for two years with Amari Rodgers before they finally tried someone else. I think LaFluer is timid and non-decisive, poor qualities for your team's leader. I hope he proves me wrong but I will have to see more strength from him before I believe he's the right man to lead this team.
As far as predictions for this year, I could see a nine or ten win season IF MLF actually gets his young roster ready to play. If not, they should still be able to beat out the Bears for 3rd in the Division.

1 points
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Ima Payne's picture

July 25, 2023 at 11:34 am

Very interesting. One sports analytical picks each teams record for this year and they have the pack at 4-13. I'm thinking they will be better then that but dont know by how much. I'm keeping in mind the pass defense and Barry as two major flaws in the GB system. Can you win with them?

1 points
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