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Sitton: Packers Offense Too Predictable. McCarthy: Trust Me

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Sitton: Packers Offense Too Predictable. McCarthy: Trust Me

Green Bay Packers offensive lineman Josh Sitton gave a blunt assessment of what is ailing what is usually a potent Packers offensive attack.

A guest on Gannett's weekly Packers show, Clubhouse Live, hosted by fellow offensive lineman David Bakhtiari, Sitton responded to a question about the offense by saying: 

I think that our offense has become too predictable. Teams know exactly what we're going to do every week. We need to show them some different things. We're not intimidating the defense right now. We're not making them think, so they can just play really fast. And obviously, we've just got to execute better. We're way too talented to not be playing at a high level right now. We need to execute what we do, and then do it better.

Pretty telling answer from the veteran offensive lineman there, especially when you consider that only an hour or so earlier, his head coach was saying this:

"I think we've got to trust the plan, and I think our players need to trust the plan."

Look, it's no mystery that the Packers are in an offensive funk and they need to do anything and everything to get themselves out of it. And both these quotes are pretty much standard fare for an offensive lineman who just got done pass protecting over 60 times in a single game and a head coach who has supreme confidence in his abilities to steer his team's ship out of treacherous waters. 

However, it also speaks to a very real possibility that Sitton, and possibly one or more of his teammates, are not only getting frustrated with the offense they are being asked to run but they might, just might, be starting to tune McCarthy out. 

Far fetched? Maybe. But McCarthy has been in his current position a long time. And it's only natural to think that, after so many years and so many times hearing the "We need to get back to fundamentals" message that players are starting to grow weary of being told what they need to do when they see a coaching staff doing precious little to alter its own approach after the team's first three game losing streak with Aaron Rodgers as a full time starter. 

Things have gotten very comfortable around 1265 Lombardi. Maybe too comfortable. And maybe this loss to the Lions is a huge turning point.

The only question is if the turn is up or down. 

 

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Ibleedgreenmore's picture

Packer nation knows something is off, they have not looked good in 4 weeks that is a long time for this group to look horrid.

Portland Mark's picture

They really haven't looked good since the KC game. Only 17 offensive points against the Rams; on 17 against the 49ers; after good start against SD they slowed down. They're not able to run that play with 3 receivers on one side where two start blocking before the ball is thrown to the third. The refs started flagging that. With Rodgers seeming to be complaining to the refs, I wonder if all teams are playing them the way Seattle has the past couple of years. Whatever the cause, they are a shadow of what the were the in years past.

Big T's picture

We have not hit rock bottom yet. MM and TT are still sniffing each others azzholes. We will get slaughtered by the Vikings and I hate to say it, but possibly a couple of bad injuries as well. MM and TT's heads are so big they can no longer walk through normal width doorways. These 2 egomaniacs are not changing anytime soon. They will have to be ousted out of Green Bay before you see any change. Maybe Aaron is playing pedestrian for a reason... Maybe Aaron is sick of the egotistical bastards and wants them gone. Hey Aaron, way to take one for the team. We know your the best, but your hands are tied. Thanks Aaron...

The TKstinator's picture

Ignorant beyond words. Yet you found some.

WKUPackFan's picture

And this is why Demovsky's article was so disappointing, he went Big T on us.

Razor's picture

How much have the Packers improved since 2010?

My thought is that there has been little or no improvement.

Player talent level is not better - maybe worse.

Who is ultimately responsible? The head coach & the GM.

Nick Perry's picture

Why does everybody give thumbs down the moment Thompson is mentiond???

2012, first preseason game Bishop is hurt. TT still hasn't replaced him. Unless you consider taking your best Pass Rushing OLB and moving him inside. Nevermind OLB is where 50% of the sacks normally come from in a 3-4 defense.

2013 Finley gets hurt. TT still hasn't replaced him except bt OVERDRAFTING R. Rodgers by 4 rounds (Trust me, he'd been there in the 7th round).

Grant gets hurt week one in 2010. Takes TT until 2013 to draft Lacy.

The Packers have played a 3-4 defense since 2009 and you HAVE to have 2 OLB who can bring it. We've had one since 2009 and FINALLY added a 35 year old HOF player. Ummm, late much Ted?

Collins is hurt in 2011, 2nd game of season and TT addresses it in 2014. And NO, McMillion doesn't count!!! OMG WTF TED!

Go back and look at the 2011 & 12 drafts. Enough said.

In the past few years TT drafts seems to have improved but look at the 6th and 7th round picks. These are normally the picks you give up to get a Veron Davis in a trade to improve your team (Just and example). Are you really that full of yourself where you think your 53 guys, every one of them are your best options? Maybe just maybe someone else has someone to help your football team? BS!

I don't doubt a bit this team has tuned out McCarthy. He's stubborn beyond belief . Every presser the guy has is about Fundamentals, accountability, blah, blah, blah! You have your street sgn, please don't waste the last 5 to 7 years of Rodgers career with your week after week "Same Ole Same Ole", it's OLD!

zoellner25's picture

I agree with Sitton, I think the players see that they aren't effective and are getting outcoached, and are tuning out MM. Coaches aren't adjusting to something that works, unless it's 4th quarter, down by 20 pts desperation time. It's alot more than just fundamentals, MM.

RCPackerFan's picture

Most of us here have been saying the same thing for weeks now.

The problem to me is the stubbornness of the coaches. The unwillingness to adapt and change with the roster changes. They want to run their system because that is what has worked the last few years. Problem with that is they don't have the same roster as the last few years. Lets face it Jordy was our top guy. They were able to run their offense because of him. Problem is Jordy is gone and they have not adapted to life without him. Teams are playing them differently and the Packers have not adapted to how teams are playing them.

While this last game I place most of the blame on the players for dropped passes and bad play, it still doesn't help that the offense runs the same offense out 75+% of the time.

In my opinion the best thing this current team can do is to run multiple personnel sets, and formations. Use 4 WR's 1 RB, 5 WR's, 2 TE's 2 WR's. They need to change up their looks and try to create some confusion for defenses.

This team while I think has good weapons, does not have the weapons it has had in the past. They need to do more things schematically to get its players open. And they have to start using and trusting its young players. In the Chargers game Janis has big plays. In the Lions game Abbrederis and Perillo each stepped up big time.
Maybe if they start using these other players they will perform. They aren't going to do anything sitting on the bench.

Tundraboy's picture

Amen

porupack's picture

Agreed.
But they have plenty of weapons to be superbowl team. I'd say more talent than years past.

RCPackerFan's picture

They do have the weapons. My opinion is that they just haven't trusted those weapons and figured out how to use them yet.

Once they figure out how to use them, and actually trust them, that is when I think we will start seeing them play to the level that we are used to seeing.

mnklitzke's picture

You would think NFL coaches should have this figured out by week 10 of the season...

dobber's picture

When your offensive tools are limited to receivers who are more quick than fast and RB who are streaky (at best), you need to be creative to make things work...even with #12.

The issue for me, and it's ironic that Sitton is the one commenting here, is that the OL is not the same OL that we saw down the stretch last fall. They were a dominant unit over the second half of 2014. With a dominant OL, you can do just about anything you want. This unit is a shadow of that, and everything else plays off that. It might be injuries to Bakh and Bulaga that are a problem, but the whole line--in general--is barely NFL average right now. Mr. Sitton: take care of your business first and hope that the coaching staff will take care of theirs.

Idiot Fan's picture

Totally agree.

Tundraboy's picture

Absolutely

4thand1's picture

Sitton hasn't played close to himself and it kinda sounds like he's passing the buck here. When defensive players are coming right up the gut, no offense will work.

porupack's picture

Ironic that Sitton is the one commenting? Ironic? Why ironic?
He is long time vet. He is impacted as much as anyone, if not more by the strategy, communication, and preparation needed to have effective blocking. Its way more than just winning one on one battles. There are complex schemes pass rushers use to confuse Olinemen, and Oline coordinators have to prepare their unit as a unit.
I trust the opinion of an expert, an insider, a vested and passionate and loyal professional.
This CHTV fanbase was blubbering over this top level veteran Oline as the best 1 or 2 Olines, and except for a few pathological pessimists, nearly all posters were effusing over this team's talent. So just Sitton? Who on the Oline is actually playing at their potential? Right. Exactly my point.
Your best words: "hope that the coaching staff will take care of theirs"

Packer_Pete's picture

I don't disagree with Sitton. But someone should ask him why he can't beat the guy in front of his face anymore. If all OL beat the guys in front of their faces then the Packers won't have many problems, neither throwing nor running the ball. Predictability is one thing. But just because the DL may know a pass play is coming doesn't mean they cannot be blocked by the OL... of course there is still the issue of trusting the dirt more than your WRs LOL

dobber's picture

Execution, execution, execution...

DrealynWilliams's picture

*High five*!!!

@Pete

porupack's picture

Because Olines have to play as a unit, and assignments have to be so quick and orchestrated depending on what Dline schemes are thrown at you. The Dline schemes are crafty with delays, and stunts.
Also Oline schemes and assignments are orchestrated to decoy or divert away from the action in the backfield, so all of that needs precise timing and work as a unit.
The days of just lining up as one-on-one against a dlinemen are history.

croatpackfan's picture

I agree with you Pete. I may accept that OL and whole team have problem with opponent D when D knows which play is coming. That really allows D to play much faster and with more confidence.
But, Josh, but... There is always but. When WR become open or when Packers O runs something new and confuse opponent d 2 things happens most of the times: either 1. receiver drops the ball (equals runner fumble it!) or 2. Aaron miss the throw by wide margin.
Another thing, and that is something that comes to Josh Sitton department. Why there is no open lines fro runners? When was the last time our RB has the line to run?
So, placing the blame on coaches, game preparation, OL, DL, WR, QB, RB, schemes, predictability etc. is just hiding behind shadow.
I say do what you need to do and win your asssignemet, execute it properly, then talk about other's flows...

Tarynfor12's picture

The predictability of the Packers that has been predictably questioned off and on for multiple seasons is now a breaking theory of its easy predictable predictability....predictably.

BradHTX's picture

Taryn... Don't ever stop posting.

Tarynfor12's picture

When predictable is part of an answer... hindsight is the undeniable question.

The TKstinator's picture

Gotta say I saw that one coming.

Mebrooks5291's picture

i use the same toliet paper each week

4thand1's picture

You crap once a week?

Bearmeat's picture

Ouch!! Sounds like someone needs some fiber in their diet. ;)

Bearmeat's picture

Sitton is right. While the players haven't executed well in the past month, it is the COACHES job to use the players strengths well so they have the best chance to execute while facing top level competition across from them.

The offense had better bloody well look completely different schematically next week. Or we'll lose again. And badly.

MM - step up to the plate and start swinging the bat dude.

porupack's picture

Well said.

Rossonero's picture

Even ESPN's John Clayton said on the radio today that McCarthy is going to take this season to the grave with him. He'd rather have his way and have the season go up in flames than admit he's wrong.

Oppy's picture

Totally agree, there's no question about it, Mike McCarthy definitely would rather lose not just a single game, but maybe all the rest of them, and potentially lose his job, and definitely become a laughing stock and be regarded as a loser by his peers around the league- rather than 'admit he's wrong' about whatever it is you think he's wrong about.

Yeah, I'm totally on board with that train of thought. It's so clear to me now.

lou's picture

No, McCarthy is not as delusional and incompetent as our Commander In Chief, his teams have been highly competitive no matter what the make up year to year or injury levels are and deserves every opportunity to turn the ship around. Following the team closely over his tenure my only real concern has been he is too soft when holding a lead late in games, I loved it when he said "the Green Bay Packers are nobodies underdog" when he had to start Flynn vs the Pat's a couple years ago and he had the players ring fingers measured before winning the Super Bowl but realistically that has been my only issue with him. Confidence is the key for the offense and that is what is lacking for whatever reason. Take MBL for example, when the hitters are in a slump everyone wants to fire the batting coach but when they start to hit again no one wants to reward them. Hopefully that happens with the offense in Green Bay. We are fortunate to have the coaching and admin staffs that are in place today.

porupack's picture

leave your politics out please. You can feed your sentiments at Fox

lou's picture

It was a perfect analogy and as a former USMC Captain who received the second highest combat award (Navy Cross with combat "V" for Valor) along with a Purple Heart leading a Marine rifle company in Vietnam I have earned the right to evaluate any Commander In Chief.

Bearmeat's picture

Lou,

You certainly have the right to your opinions. And I thank you for your service to our country. That said, fellow Packer Backers fight enough around here about the merits of players X,Y, and Z - and we all are rooting for the same team. On the other hand, our politics are all over the map I'm sure. Politics is not the focus of this site, and bringing it into the conversation will do nothing but hijack thread after thread and pretty soon no one would enjoy being here.

Thanks.

Rossonero's picture

Oppy: Allow me to elaborate. McCarthy is wrong to be so stubborn after several weeks of not having the team prepared, not making the necessary adjustments and being evasive and vague in press conferences when the tough questions are being asked.

He is responsible for whatever the Packers do or fail to do, period. I am not calling for him to be fired. The comment from John Clayton echoes the sentiment of a lot of fans that his "stay the course" mentality is not working.

There's also little to no fire or passion that I can see. I don't see it all, but something is missing and whatever McCarthy is doing now clearly is not working. He is an offensive mind and needs to try some new things. For example, jet sweeps with Cobb, flea flickers, deep ball to Janis or Abbrederis.

porupack's picture

Perfectly said. MM has failed, but he is smart enough to turn it around. Not sure why Oppy is feels MM shouldn't shoulder the responsibility, and thinks criticism of MM job this means we're advocating a firing.

Oppy's picture

Generally speaking, successful people don't freak out when they are in a 4 week slump. Generally speaking, successful people don't panic and make broad changes to how they do business because a number of employees aren't performing up to their ability. Generally speaking, they analyze the situation, determine what the factors out, and work their way out of it.

If this organization made all the knee-jerk changes to adversity that fans call for every time things aren't going great, I guarantee we'd look more like the Browns, Lions, or Jets of the last two decades than the Packers.

You may recall the last time people were freaking out about the free-falling Packers- much later in the season, I may add- might have been 2010. The Players pulled it together, they went on a run, just barely squeaked into the playoffs as a wildcard, then won out on the road to hoist the Lombardi Trohpy.

There's always been all this talk about Ted's supposed "Ego" and MM's supposed "stubborness".. It's not EGO and it's not STUBBORN. It's LEADERSHIP and CONFIDENCE in a proven system that WORKS and WINS.

I take no issue with criticism of MM's job. I take issue with people making ridiculous, unsubstantiated comments like- for instance- " (McCarthy would) rather have his way and have the season go up in flames than admit he's wrong."

porupack's picture

Oppy, nice come-back. I agree that there is place for criticizing MM leadership performance, but some posters way over-exaggeration on the ego, and refusing to budge BS.
I think it is a small minority here who want the heads of MM and TT, but that isn't even knee-jerk reactions, they're largely patho haters of MM and TT to begin with.
Others here don't see this as a 4 week slump. The trends were last year but covered up by some fortuitous games getting into post season, and the trends became magnified by the ripple effects of Jordy. But if Sitton is right like many of us agree, then that is good news because the game to game scheme adjustments can be made, and that gives us best reason for optimism.
I'd rather trust Sitton's assessment, than just "HOPE" we get out of a SLUMP. "slumps" are just a notion for people who can't find rational causes.
always appreciate your viewpoints Oppy

Oppy's picture

Rossonero, as a direct reply to your last comment, the Packers have seen spurts in these last several games of production.

MM, Edgar Bennet, Clements, and Rodgers all have varying levels or input into the gameplan for the week. Tom Clements pulls from that general philosophy and set of plays, calls the plays in, Rodgers makes adjustments including route changes, run options, etc, at the LOS, and sometimes outright changes the play call entirely. We now have three layers of decision making and we, the fans, have little real idea of who is making the final decision of what we see executed on the field on any given snap.

Now we get to execution. Half the time, we, the fans, don't even know what a given player's responsibility truly is on a given play call. Sprinkle in flat-out poor execution by any number of players on any given play- an OG doesn't pick up a stunt, the RB fumbles the ball or doesn't press the hole, a TE plays the wrong technique on his break, the QB misses an open target on the field.

Add in that MM is more than likely spending about 20 extra hours a week looking for answers on top of what is probably already a 100 hour work week..

I have no issue if you want to say "It's McCarthy's job to find ways to win football games, he needs to do a better job", even if I don't necessarily agree that a coach can realistically make all problems go away in any given situation. It seems that this is what you intend to convey in your last post.

However, in your prior post, the message you put forth is patently ludicrous- the idea that Mike McCarthy- a guy who probably wants to win football games more than most people love their kids- would rather watch his team fall apart than 'admit he's wrong'.

porupack's picture

great comment.
I'll admit that while I'm critical of MM's leadership/coaching performance ALL year long, I can't imagine how I'd propose he fixes all the nuances that go into the changes. He is very close to losing his team's confidence in him, but I trust that after the debacle last week, he'll do the necessary job to effect sufficient changes in scheme and level of preparation, and so particularly because of the Detro debacle.......I'm predicting; GB puts up 14 points or better over Minne.

Oppy's picture

I don't personally buy into all the hoopla about players nearing the brink in terms of losing confidence in McCarthy. There has been criticism of playcalling, predictability. That could fall in Tom Clements territory. He'd be more likely to garner the ire or find players questioning his decision making, IMO, simply for the fact that he's never called the plays in Green Bay before. In fact, the only other time in his NFL career where he had playcalling responsibilities was in Buffalo. He called the plays for roughly a year and a half, was relieved of that duty, and the common critique was he was far too conservative.. in Buffalo... too conservative of a play caller.

Also factor in that besides MM making comments recently that perhaps he put too much on Clements' plate at one time, even Aaron Rodgers, who is Clements' biggest supported, stated that MM's recent decision to move QB/WR coach Alex van Pelt from the booth to the sidelines was a good idea because it puts Alex in a position where he can go over the snapshots with the QBs and WR's, where Clements can still hear them, but allowing Tom to fully concentrate more on play calling duties.

That sounds like MM is making changes, and specifically, changes to help a Tom Clements who may be struggling somewhat. It surprised me to hear Rodgers' comments seemingly supporting that avenue of thought.

I just don't think a team would lose faith in a HC that has had them winning more games than any other team in the league save the Pats because they've recently hit a rough patch. I could seem them losing faith in their new play caller- regardless if that is truly the cause of their ails or not.

WKUPackFan's picture

Oppy - the best series of comments in a while, thanks.

Rossonero's picture

Oppy: perhaps I went a little overboard in my last comment. I know McCarthy wants to win. What I struggle with is dodging the tough questions in the press conferences. Did you see the post-game press conference? The reporters were respectful, but asked tough questions. McCarthy's response to "what has changed and why are you struggling" was flatly "that's football." Really? That's it?

I look at the Eagles as an example of some nice adjustments made when the offense was dreadful earlier in the season. I then wonder why aren't we doing things like this?

From NFL.com:
"In response to a dreadful September, Chip Kelly has changed his offense in Philadelphia to suit the skill set of DeMarco Murray and emphasize his tight-end duo of Zach Ertz and Brent Celek at the expense of his more pedestrian wide receiver corps. For the second straight week, the Eagles emphasized "12" personnel (two-tight end sets). Kelly was rewarded with 202 combined receiving yards from Ertz and Celek."

WKUPackFan's picture

Rossonero: Your yearning for more substantive answers from MM is understandable, but that's the way every successful coach responds in a news conference. BB is closed mouthed for a reason. Usually it's the guys that are constantly putting stuff out there (Ryan, Gruden) that get laughed at.

Oppy's picture

To expand on what WKU stated,

There is no competitive benefit to tell the media the intimate details of the day-to-day business of your football team- zero.

There is, however, many a competitive benefit to be gained by your opponents when you tell the media the intimate details of the day-to-day business of your football team.

Competitive edge aside, what if the honest answer to the question "what is wrong with your team" is "MY players are lazy and lousy, and our NFL darling QB is so high on himself that he refuses to take coaching, I have a handful of assistants that are more concerned with drinking that getting their cut-ups in on time?" Maybe a little bit of being a great leader is not hanging your guys out in public, because it's family business. (For the record, the above was purely hypothetical :)

If most head coaches had their way (IE were not obligated by NFL rules) they probably wouldn't talk to the media at all.

Fans don't like it, they want to know everything about their team. But professionally speaking, not fielding 'tough questions' from the media has no impact on a head coaches worth, it's not an indicator of job performance, and it doesn't mean nothing is being done to right the ship. It's simply just frustrating to fans who want something, anything, to make sense of a season.

LeagueObsrvr's picture

"I think that our offense has become too predictable"

Ding! Ding! Ding! Someone from inside the locker room finally says what needed to be said! Thank you Mr. Sitton!

Dan Stodola's picture

But if Mr Sitton was holding up his end of the bargain, along w the rest of the OL, the rest is probably immaterial. Nice of him to speak up, but unless he's playing his best, it comes off as sour grapes.

Alot of blame goes around, deservedly so. But everyone must play better, including Sitton!

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Even McCarthy's comments about the offense being predictable are shamefully predictable.

Tundraboy's picture

Exactly

LeagueObsrvr's picture

"Things have gotten very comfortable around 1265 Lombardi. Maybe too comfortable. And maybe this loss to the Lions is a huge turning point."
_______________________________________

After hearing McCarthy's remarks so far, I honestly don't think they get it. At least not the coaching staff. As long as the coaches stay immersed in their cognitive dissonance, we can expect this to continue. I fully expect this team to get slaughtered by the Vikings on Sunday in Minnesota, but I hope they prove me wrong, I really do.

DrealynWilliams's picture

The next game we win y'all better hope we run nothing but brand new plays the entire game. If not, I'm rubbing the game in your face.

Bearmeat's picture

See that's the thing Drealyn. If they can lose to the LOLions at home, WHO in the NFL are they exactly going to beat? If something on offense doesn't change, and fast, they're certainly not going to make the playoffs. And if they don't get better, they won't win another game.

DrealynWilliams's picture

It happens. Any given Sunday. I bet every team goes through a funk this season. It might not be a 3-game L streak, but it might come in a 4-int game from their starting QB (DEN-loss). Or an undefeated team only scoring two field goals at home and losing to a backup QB (CIN). Or how about one of the scariest defenses giving up 39 points at home (SEA-one of the toughest places to win, might I add)? It's been a strange season.

I'm not saying their play as of late shouldn't cause worry, but I believe the players are going to get it right. Coaches too (I still think play-calling isn't the problem). The entire team will step up and correct what needs to be corrected.

Just watch.

Oh yea, and for those (not you @Bear) who don't believe they will turn it around then just stop coming here. No body wants to see any "I told you so" comments.

porupack's picture

DrealynW;
We agree that GB can turn it around. I differ with you on the source of problems. If I correctly summarize your posts over the past 2 weeks, you attribute this as just a "slump" for no particular reason, and all will "get back on track". I don't manage my business that way, just hoping stars align soon. I hold myself as manager to high level, and if my team underperforms, its my job to get all parts moving right. Josh states what we've noticed since game 1. It was obvious even when we were winning that GB wasn't playing excellent football. For this reason, the 3 game losing streak is an opportunity for coaches to make adjustments in its strategy.
For the 20th time....it is not just simple play calling, but the game strategy set up for the opponent that week. Play calling is determined largely by your game strategy. Sitton is totally right, even if he himself isn't winning all his battles. He's very qualified to speak. He isn't a rook, ya know, so I'll listen to him over posters on this site who think its all about Olivia Munn, and non-sense that I read.
It will turn around, when coaches turn it around...so I'm a believer in case you're still wanting to rub dirt on ole porupack.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I would say that Sitton's play for the season overall has been above average. We are used to him being elite or near elite, and that hasn't been the case this year, but this is a veteran who has been and still is a very good player speaking out. This is not some guy who has been playing bad and is making these statements in an attempt to deflect blame. That is not really possible as the tape will tell its tale. I hope Sitton is taking a leadership role in the locker room as well.

DrealynWilliams's picture

I'm done going back and forth on what the issue could be or what could resolve it. I'm done going back and forth with fickle fans (if the shoe fits...). I don't have the time to go through the first 3 major articles after the first 6 games, but I can all but guarantee that no one was riding Coach MM or Clements like they are now. Capers only hiccup was the Chargers game where they only gave up 20 pts. The Chiefs scored in garbage time minutes.

I can't wait for the Vikings game. I can't wait to go over that game film. I bet they treat it like the Patriots game of last season. Players step up to the plate + some new wrinkles thrown in here and there. I also bet Coach MM and Clements aren't mentioned nearly as much as a player after this win.

Bearmeat's picture

Hope you are right. I am far more pessimistic.

packerfan9507's picture

It's too bad they cut a RB that could bring a new dynamic to the offense in favor of a Lacy clone that they never play.

They need to use 2 TE sets and adopt pass-to-run. They could also bring in a max-protect look with another lineman to keep Rodgers clean and/or open up wider holes for Starks.

The saying goes that pride comes before the fall and the Packers collective faces are hitting the mat like Rousey's did last Saturday night.

Rossonero's picture

I'm worried McCarthy wants group think. I'm all for the team concept, but plowing ahead when the world is collapsing is death by hubris. It's ok to have someone disagree like Sitton!

Portland Mark's picture

Speaking of clones, while this thread is about the offense, I would like to what another coach could do with all those high picks on defense. A new DC please.

Mags's picture

I am so tired of McCarthy and his fundamentals comment. Its the middle of the frickin season. Fundamentals is something that should be taken care of in training camp. Piss poor excuses. Next week it will be pad level!

Packer_Pete's picture

Pad level Mags, pad level. LMAO

Since '61's picture

Let's see, we haven't had Lacy to cause defenses to respect the run, Our #1 WR and deep threat is out for the season and we virtually have no TE. That means our offense is missing 3 major weapons and we're playing with solid but somewhat slower possession receivers. Plus, the OL is not playing well Mr. Sitton, predictable or not. We need Ty Montgomery back, we need either Lacy or Starks to run effectively, we need A. Rodgers to find his A game and we need the OL to remember how to block. Establish some long drives that we can use to set up the defense as the game goes on and we won't seem so predictable. It's difficult to set up the defense when we're always in 3rd and 8 or worse on our own 23 and we're always going 3 and out. Go Pack! Thanks, Since '61

porupack's picture

Since 61,
With due respect, I hold the philosophy of dealing with the cards you have, and playing those cards at its maximum potential. No one believes this is the case in GB right now (if at all this season). MM is the single person most able to get all the current cards playing to their potential.
As for your remedies, "establish some long drives", and "need Lacy to run effectively" and "Aaron to find his A game"... isn't that what MM is trying, but failing to do? I think Sitton is saying that there is a reason all these parts aren't working, which leads to 3rd and 8 and going 3 and out. I agree with Sitton until a more logical diagnosis is made.

Since '61's picture

Pour pack - I think that you misinterpreted my post. I'm agreeing with Sitton and saying what else can you expect when the team is missing 3 weapons and the OL is playing poorly. I'm trying to say that the offense needs consistency or a rythmn and that Sittin needs to be part of the solution. I have not lost faith in either MM or A.Rodgers. However the time has come to forget the excuses and play football. Win the one and ones and make some plays. Go Pack! Thanks, Since '61

Archie's picture

I agree with Sitton too but I also think 12 is in a slump. I think he is punchy i.e., seeing ghosts, from all the hits this year. MN will hit him hard and often this week. Can he play through that and get a W? That's what we will all tune in to see. I rewatched the Lions game this AM and found it quite entertaining and dramatic. We had many chances to win at the end and our defense played as well as I have seen them play in a long time. ST let us down and 12 kept going 3 and out. 61 passes is stupid. iso routes are not getting it done. Don't know if MM is capable of scheming to get a particular guy open. I know the GB W/L record is 2nd only to NE but I still say much of that is 12 and his WR. He doesn't have a superior group of pass catchers to throw to anymore and that seems to affect him. MM/TT have ridden 12 for their W/L record. Truth be told, TT is a lower echelon GM and MM is a lower echelon HC. I know that isn't a popular opinion among Packer fans but I believe it to be the truth and we are witnessing it right now. I think this offense will sputter the rest of the way.

packersbrewers's picture

Alot of people watching the game can call the plays the Packers are going to run before they run them. The worst defensive player in the NFL is still better then 999,999 out of 1,000,000 of those Johns and Janes sitting at home. So if John and Jane know everything except the name of the play on the call sheet then it isn't a stretch to believe those defensive players getting paid millions know it too.

When a defense that is struggling all year gives up points and yards like its free samples at Costco and then suddenly play the Packers like the NFL's number 1 defense you should really step back and go "hmmmm".

Mike needs to pull his head out of the hole he stuffed it in and stop with the bull headed "not gonna change" 2 year old tantrum approach because it aint working.

D Ernesto's picture

I'm a disciple of the Jimmy Johnson school of football thought. Principle one; "'you can't coach speed you draft it"'.

Just read where Rochard Rogers is the 46th fastest tight end in the league.
Cobb is easily covered by placing the fastest corner or safety on him all game since Nelson is out.

and were wondering why our guys are covered and Rogers has no where to go with the ball?

Packer_Pete's picture

That's what the Raiders did all those years. And look what they had. Heyward-Bey the speediest WR LOL. But couldn't catch a ball to save his life. Ted is drafting football players. And this team is a perennial playoff team and might be again this season. I don't see the Raiders matching that anytime soon. Even though they got better now...
Oh and one more thing - do all of the 45 TEs who are faster than Rodgers have at least 5 TDs this season? He does...

carusotrap's picture

Um...the Raiders will beat us by two touchdowns given the current state of this team.

jbromusic's picture

it's not about speed (although you do need to have 1 guy out there who can take the top off of the defense). it's about running precise routes and having a little shiftiness where you can create separation. none of our guys are doing that consistently at this point in time. i think ty montgomery is one of those types of players but he needs to get healthy and get on the field.

Gary Fritzmeier's picture

There are many plays I could call from my seat in the stands. No wonder others defense can.

Razor's picture

Two questions:

What have the Packers accomplished since 2010?

Who is responsible for that? (hint: three names)

golfers12's picture

Sitton and Bakhtiari also talked about how the team's energy level was low. Seems like they should of been chomping at the bit to kick some butt. Maybe we ARE seeing the beginnings of MMC losing the team. I think things will improve a lot at MN if Montgomery can play and we finally get the best receivers all on the field

LONG TIME FAN's picture

SHOULD HAVE TRADED FOR VERNON DAVIS. AT LEAST HE BRINGS SPEED AND MATCH UP PROBLEMS FOR A DEFENSE. COULD HAVE HAD HIM FOR TWO 6TH ROUND PICKS. BUT TT ONLY LIKES TO DRAFT . WHAT A SHAME. THE NFL IS ABOUT MATCHUPS. AND WE DON'T HAVE PLAYERS THAT PRESENT MATCH UP PROBLEMS FOR A DEFENSE. WHERE ARE ALL THE TT LOVERS NOW.

Oppy's picture

I AM RIGHT HERE, TT LOVER, THROUGH AND THROUGH.

YOU GOTTA PROBLEM WITH THAT, SASSY PANTS?

BY THE WAY, DID YOU KNOW THAT TED THOMPSON ACTUALLY OFFERED UP TWO FIFTH ROUNDERS AND JEFF JANIS FOR VERNON DAVIS BUT THE 49ERS DIDN'T WANT TO TRADE DAVIS INTO THE NFC??

I BET YOU'RE SAYING TO YOURSELF, THAT'S A LOAD OF SHIT, OPPY HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT TED THOMPSON DID OR DIDN'T TRY TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE 49ERS.. AND YOU'RE RIGHT, JUST LIKE ITS A TOTAL LOAD OF SHIT WHEN YOU IMPLY TT DIDN'T TRY TO GO FOR VERNON DAVIS. HERE'S SOME INSIGHT: WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE HUNDREDS OF CALLS TEAMS MAKE TO ONE ANOTHER THROUGHOUT THE SEASON UP TO THE TRADE DEADLINE. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WAS DISCUSSED, WHO INQUIRED ABOUT WHAT PLAYERS, AND WHO SAID "NO".

LONG TIME FAN's picture

TT HASN'T MADE ONE ATTEMPT TO BRING IN A DIFFERENCE MAKES SINCE JORDY WENT DOWN. PLEASE DON'T SAY JAMES JONES IS A DIFFERENCE MAKER. VERNON DAVIS IS THAT GUY.

Oppy's picture

AGAIN, I HAVE TO ASK, HOW IS IT EXACTLY THAT YOU KNOW WHO THE PACKERS HAVE, OR HAVEN'T, ATTEMPTED TO BRING IN?

DO YOU HAVE THE PHONES TAPPED? DO YOU HIDE IN SHRUBS AND BEHIND NEWSPAPERS, DISCRETELY EAVES DROPPING ON EVERY PHONE CONVERSATION AND LUNCHEON HAD BY EVERY PRO PERSONNEL GUY (WHOSE NAMES WE DON'T EVEN REALLY KNOW) EMPLOYED BY THE PACKERS?

THE POINT BEING, YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF THE PACKERS DID, OR DIDN'T, ATTEMPT TO DEAL FOR VERNON DAVIS OR ANY OTHER PLAYER FOR THAT MATTER.

P.S. TT STILL LOVES YOU. HE LOVES YOU ALOT. BECAUSE HE LOVES THE PACKERS ALMOST AS MUCH AS HE LOVES THE PACKERS FANS, EVEN THE ONES LIKE YOU. KEEP YOUR HEAD UP, YOU'RE LOVED.

LONG TIME FAN's picture

YOU MAY BE BLIND BUT YOU ARE FUNNY. ITS NOT WHAT HE ATTEMPTS THAT I JUDGE HIM ON ITS WHAT TT GETS DONE. WHICH LATELY HASN'T BEEN MUCH.

Oppy's picture

WHEN TALKING ABOUT -TRADING- FOR A PLAYER, IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT NO MATTER HOW BADLY A TEAM MAY WANT TO TRADE FOR A PLAYER, NO MATTER WHAT THEY MAY OFFER...

THE OTHER TEAM DOESN'T HAVE TO SAY 'YES'.

FOR THE RECORD, THERE WERE REPORTS THAT DENVER WAS NOT INTERESTED IN DEALING DAVIS TO THE NFC, WHICH ISN'T TERRIBLY SURPRISING.

LONG TIME FAN's picture

WHEN YOU HAVE BACK TO BACK POTENTIAL HALL OF FAME QBS. WE SHOULD HAVE MORE THEN TWO SUPER BOWLS TO SHOW FOR IT.

RCPackerFan's picture

Of course the coaches know more then us. That is why they are the coaches.

But what I find funny is that everything that we are saying isn't anything different then what the experts are saying. That is former players, coaches and guys who have been working in football their whole lives.
Most fans are smart. Just because we aren't in the business doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about.

The TKstinator's picture

And anything fans/former players/analysts suggest has already been thought of by the coaches. They want to win too. We're all just frustrated.

RCPackerFan's picture

We are frustrated.

The problem is that we aren't seeing a lot of changes made. That is what is the most frustrating part for most of us. On offense they use the same personnel and formations for 3/4 of the game, and are getting the same results. That is where most of us are getting frustrated. We don't see them trying everything possible to make it work.

The offense hasn't really clicked all year. We have seen the struggles all year. But the last 3 games really have been troubling.

They do have the talent to get it turned around. I think they will, just hopefully it won't be to late before they do.

The TKstinator's picture

We're all frustrated at the lack of production.
But
If any of us would actually make any of these (brilliant) suggestions to any of the coaches, they would tell us to take our crayons and go back to kindergarten.
I mean, seriously, do we REALLY think we know more about football than the men who've dedicated their lives to the sport?

Dan Stodola's picture

Amen Brother. So tired of armchair HC thinking they know what will cure all the Packers ills. Its not like this is a highly competitive environment that demands Winning above all is it? Oh, it is... That's right. These guys have their jobs and everything on the line every season.

McCarthy and Thompson have been extremely successful and highy competive every year they've been in GB. Seems to many fans don't remember what it was like to have an absolute disaster of a team every year as was the case in the '70 and '80's.

porupack's picture

We are the customer afterall, no?
If the product is bad, we can at least drop our complaints in the complaint box?
Not expecting them to be read, but I like my rights.

RCPackerFan's picture

Just asking your opinion. Do you think McCarthy should be play calling? Do you think Clements has done a good enough job to keep play calling or do you think McCarthy should take it back?

Dan Stodola's picture

I was fine w/ McCarthy calling plays in the first place. He's one of the best in the NFL at it. But if McCarthy and Rodgers both think that Clements is doing a good job w/ it, I'm inclined to trust them. All 3 are involved in the game plan and playcalling anyway.

4thand1's picture

The Packers are #6 in the power rankings(nfl network). They see something we don't. A lot of people (fans)have this team dead and buried. I think we all got caught up in the pre season hype, super bowl favorites. Don't expect to much, its not easy winning every year . We are about to find out what kind of character this team has Sunday night.

Tundraboy's picture

Sunday night?. Thought it was a late afternoon game. If flexed I think I may watch Walking Dead instead.

canadapacker's picture

Run good routes, throw the ball, catch the ball and block for the running backs and quarterback. Too often we dont run good routes, too often AR doesnt through the ball even with time, too often we have drops, too often we let guys run free into the backfield and either get to AR or stop the backs in the backfield. Too often we dont open holes on run plays.
All that being said - it is time to start winning our divisin games and become NFC North champs again.

Pack204's picture

I think GB offence is more predictable than most teams in the NFL. I guess you can always say, if you win your battles 1 on 1 you win most of the time. Although its not that easy cause the guys on the other side of the ball are getting paid as well. I think you have to mix it up a little bit more just to give the defence a different look and keep them off balance.

Would like to see them mix up the formations and run some 2 TE sets or bunch formations, motion Cobb in and out of the backfield.. I am sure McCarthy being an offensive guru has to have these plays in the playbook?

PETER MAIZ's picture

Well, Sitton should know, he's in there full time. The whole O line is not protecting Rodgers, either through injuries or mental issues. It seems that not only the fans were absolutely disgusted by the obscene meltdown during the NFC championship.

PETER MAIZ's picture

Well, Sitton should know, he's in there full time. The whole O line is not protecting Rodgers, either through injuries or mental issues. It seems that not only the fans were absolutely disgusted by the obscene meltdown during the NFC championship.

PETER MAIZ's picture

Well, Sitton should know, he's in there full time. The whole O line is not protecting Rodgers, either through injuries or mental issues. It seems that not only the fans were absolutely disgusted by the obscene meltdown during the NFC championship.

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