Self-Scout: What I Got Wrong About Rashan Gary

Andy Herman self-scouts his initial reacitons to Rashan Gary, and reveiws where he may have gone wrong.

Flashback to the first round of the 2019 NFL Draft. For me, and a ton of other “draftnik’s,” there’s a whole lot of work that goes into preparing for this day. Months of watching film, breaking down players, and forming evaluations is finally about to payoff—not only as an analyst, but as a fan as well.

One of the best aspects of breaking down players so incessantly is that you immediately have an idea of the player that your favorite team selects. It also builds so much drama as the players you’ve studied and love either get snatched up by other teams or hopefully make their way down the board to where your favorite team selects.

For me, the first round of the draft started out perfectly for the Packers. Kyler Murray goes 1 overall which was an ideal scenario. Following Murray were Nick Bosa and Quinnen Williams who were never going to be available at 12. Clelin Ferrell was a surprise pick at four (somebody I would have been ok with at 12, but not thrilled with, so I felt this was a good pick for Green Bay). Devin White goes 5, but again, he was never expected to be there for Green Bay either. We’re still doing well.

Then Daniel Jones gets selected 6 and we’re really building a dream scenario here. Josh Allen goes 7 and I didn’t mind him being off the board. With only four picks to be made before the Packers, players like TJ Hockenson, Brian Burns, Andre Dillard, Jonah Williams, Devin Bush, Montez Sweat, and Ed Oliver were all still on the board. It was guaranteed that at least 3 of those 7 players would be available when Green Bay selected.

Then things took bit of a turn. All of a sudden Hockenson, Oliver (the true apple of my eye), Bush, and Jonah Williams were taken with the next four picks. Green Bay was now on the clock. Two players I really loved were left: Brian Burns and Andre Dillard. Montez Sweat is an option too but the recent revelation of a potential heart issue clouds things a bit. Things were getting interesting.

In my head I had a strong feeling that this wasn’t going to go the way I hoped. I knew full well they were unlikely to take Brian Burns at 12. For as much as he would bring a different type of edge rusher to the table as a true speed rusher, he never truly fit Mike Pettine’s scheme and he may never be a three-down player. I knew they wouldn’t bite.

As much as I loved Andre Dillard, he made less sense for Green Bay than anywhere else because he’s a true left tackle and that position is sort of spoken for in Green Bay. And as I mentioned the heart issue clouded everything for Montez Sweat and with there being a concern he probably wouldn’t be in play at 12 either. I knew these things, but I didn’t really want to believe them.

They could maybe go with Christian Wilkins, a super solid interior defender who probably matches a little too similarly to Kenny Clark, but he’d be a good pick—albeit a bit of a letdown at 12. Trading down and netting an extra pick while picking up a Noah Fant, Chris Lindstrom, or Jerry Tillery could make some sense as well. But then the ever familiar pop-up shows up… The Pick is In!

I knew there was no trade down and I was legitimately on the edge of my seat. Before the Bengals picked I tweeted out “Burns, Dillard, or Jonah. Sweat would be fine too. Just no Gary or QB.” It echoed a similar tweet I posted back on April 8th which basically stated I’d be fine with anything besides QB, RB, or Rashan Gary.

Rashan Gary was never truly under consideration for me. There was the lack of production, his stock had been falling to the middle or end of round one by just about every major draft site, and it was just revealed that he may need offseason shoulder surgery and that his shoulder may affect him for all of 2019. Honestly, it just never felt feasible.

And then the pick comes in. My immediate response:

Followed by:

I was immediately scheduled to talk with Aaron Nagler and Corey Behnke on the Live CHTV Draft Show. I’m reviewing my notes, and getting ready to go on air but inside its tough not to be disappointed. At the end of the day, I’m still a fan too. Top 12 draft picks only (hopefully) come along so often, and for that pick to be used on pretty much the only player I didn’t want sucked. Frankly… it sucked.

So then comes the interview with Aaron and Corey. For the longest time I didn’t want to go back and watch it. Of the almost six minute clip there was only one phrase that I could remember after the fact. In my head it went something to the effect of “To me he was the HaHa Clinton-Dix of defensive lineman.” The more I watched the tape of Gary afterwards the more I knew this wasn’t true; but more on that in a moment.

I finally went back and watched the clip recently and it wasn’t as bad as I thought it to be in my head. I covered his elite athleticism, the fact he was a perfect scheme fit, I covered his versatility, and ultimately I hit on a lot of key points I wanted to cover. His lack of production was a fair point to bring up.

Aaron also brought up a fantastic point that Gary doesn’t always have a path to the quarterback—this was a legit criticism of Gary as well. Overall, besides the HaHa comment, I thought my analysis did a good job of breaking down his great traits with the true question marks. Even still, as Aaron notes during the segment, my disappointment was palpable.

So why was I so down on Rashan Gary? At pick 12 I had a list of boxes to check and I wanted to check off as many of the boxes as I could. I was hoping for:

  • Elite athleticism
  • Big time production
  • No injury issues or red flags
  • No off field issues or red flags
  • A player who jumps off the tape
  • Scheme fit
  • Ideally played at a big-time program
  • No questions of effort or hustle
  • Plays a premium position (QB, WR, OT, Pass Rusher, CB)
  • High Upside
  • Low Floor
  • Consistency

Gary checked a lot of these boxes:

Elite athleticism, no off field issues, jumps off the tape (at times), perfect scheme fit, played at a big time program, played at a premium position, and has massive upside.

But he also had too many unchecked:

Lacked production, hustle/effort was questioned, he wasn’t consistent, he had injury concerns, and his floor was definitely uncertain.

For pick 12, I couldn’t reconcile the latter part of this list. I wanted somebody who checked more boxes and was ultimately a safer pick. For these reasons I never gave much credence to Gary at 12 and by no means was I alone in that assessment.

Thor Nystrom came on the Pack-A-Day podcast with me after the draft and blasted the pick, echoing a lot of my same concerns. Jordan Reid questioned Gary’s on/off switch and noted that he disappears for stretches. The Draft Network had Gary as their 39th overall player. Kyle Crabbs had him as an early 2nd round pick, Joe Marino questioned his inconsistent motor, and Jon Ledyard had him as a 2nd round pick, questioning his pass rush polish.

Daniel Jeremiah was one of the few to offer a different opinion – having him as his 10th overall player and noting that Gary’s effort was exceptional.

Ultimately what was done, was done, and now it was time for me to watch even more Rashan Gary. I knew I’d be joining podcasts and doing guest spots on radio and TV shows and I needed to know everything there was to know about Gary. More than that, I had to see if there was something I was missing. What did Green Bay see that I missed?

Not more than 5 minutes after the draft was done I live-streamed a video of me breaking down Gary versus Ohio State. That was a game that always stood out to me but I came away more impressed this time. Over the course of the next couple weeks I watched more and more Rashan Gary and to be honest, to this day, I keep wanting to watch more of his tape. The more you watch, the more the intricacies of his game stand out.

A little over a week back my mindset on Gary started to flip pretty significantly. And I know what you’re thinking already. I didn’t like the player during the draft process, and now Green Bay selected him and all of a sudden I started seeing the positives. And honestly I’ve been so massively aware of that potentially happening that I’ve watched the tape over and over again to make sure I’m not just wearing rose-tinted glasses and watching him with renewed hope.

The first thing on my re-watch that I immediately noticed was that Daniel Jeremiah was right, and it’s why he’s one of the best in the business. Gary’s motor doesn’t run hot and cold at all, and he’s nothing like “the HaHa Clinton-Dix of defensive lineman.” Gary’s engine burns hot and he plays the game 100 miles per hour. He needs to finish plays better, and he needs to develop a better path to the quarterback, but his effort is exceptional. There were multiple times when he chased down plays from behind or hustled sideline to sideline. The more I watched the more he checked this box.

Then more positives started rolling in. I reached out to Pro Football Focus, and they mentioned that his pressure percentage was actually better in 2017 when he wasn’t playing with an injured shoulder. Devin Bush came out and stated that he would have taken Gary ahead of himself. Michigan’s defensive coordinator went on the Locked on Packers Podcast and gave rave reviews about Gary. Mike Smith the Packers LB’s coach said he was his number one edge rusher on his board. There were more and more positives coming out every day.

Clips like this started showing up on Twitter:

Do you want to tell this guy that his game has an on/off switch? Because I certainly don’t.

I also quickly started to realize that while I was enamored by the elite athleticism of Ed Oliver, Montez Sweat, and Brian Burns, I was somehow missing out on the fact that Gary was probably the biggest athletic freak of them all. I just needed to stop and look closer and stop focusing too much on some of the negatives. (Tell me what they can do!!!).

Finally, this week was the second week of OTA’s and this past Tuesday I got to see Rashan Gary in person for the first time. I was excited, but I also knew it wasn’t a padded practice and I’d have to be careful with jumping to conclusions, especially in the trenches with no pads.

The first thing that immediately jumped out to me was Gary’s size. Gary has the look of a guy that you don’t want lined up across from you for any reason. He’s big, strong, physical, and just has the look of a top flight defensive player.

Then came the practice and the number one thing that I always want to see is somebody flash and make a play when I’m not specifically watching them. If somebody can make a play that causes me to do a double take and say, “who the hell was that?!” you’ve officially piqued my interest. Gary made two such plays in team drills on Wednesday.

The first time he exploded off the line of scrimmage, turned the corner, flattened to the quarterback and exploded past David Bakhtiari for what would have been a sack of Rodgers. A few plays later he exploded right through Billy Turner at RT using his raw power. He was also involved in a run stuff on a run up the middle that went nowhere. All of these plays were ones where he stood out without me specifically watching him. Yes it’s an unpadded OTA, but these are absolutely the things you want to see.

For the past couple days I’ve once again wanted to double check everything. I wanted to make sure this wasn’t a scenario where I wanted to make up for a bad initial impression or that I wanted to see Gary be better because he was now a Packer. But looking back over time, I didn’t like the Datone Jones or HaHa Clinton-Dix picks, and I hated the Jerrell Worthy, Khiri Thornton, and Richard Rodgers picks and even after re-watching those players over and over after they were Packers, I never wavered on my initial assessment.

Rashan Gary was different. I misjudged him at first glance. He’s a more athletic, productive, and high energy player than I ever gave him credit for. Does this mean that I personally would have taken him over Burns at 12? I’m still not sure. Does it mean that he’s bound for glory and will be a Pro Bowl Packer for years to come? It doesn’t.

Gary unquestionably has to find a path to the quarterback which is fortunately something that Mike Smith excels at building. He also needs to find more production and needs to force turnovers at a much higher rate. If he can’t do these things he will struggle to live up to the number twelve pick.

What I do believe is that Gary won’t bust. He’s too good of a player against the run, and he’s too physical of a player overall. He’s got a phenomenal passion for the game, and he continues to hone his craft—the game matters to him. Even if he doesn’t get one ounce better for the rest of his career he can still help the team. And I do believe he will get better as time goes on and he learns from Za’Darius Smith, Preston Smith, Kyler Fackrell, Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels, etc…

Rashan Gary always should have been in the discussion for the Packers at pick 12. At the end of the day I wish I would have read his tape better initially. I wish I wouldn’t have called him the HaHa Clinton-Dix of defensive lineman. I wish that I wouldn’t have sent out a stupid tweet saying anyone but Gary and that taking him was the wrong move.

Instead I wish I would have tweeted and noted on-air some of his positives and negatives, but ultimately that I was excited to go back and watch more tape of Gary and learn more about him as a player. Because when I did, I became a lot more excited about the prospect overall. Unfortunately, sometimes that’s how we learn, and going forward I’ll be better for it.

__________________________

Andy is a graduate of UW-Oshkosh and owns & operates the Pack-A-Day Podcast. Andy has taken multiple courses in NFL scouting and appears weekly on 107.5 The Fan in Green Bay to breakdown film. This past season he was an analyst on Green Bay Nation on WFRV TV in Green Bay. Andy grew up in Green Bay and is a lifelong season ticket holder; follow him on Twitter at @sconniesports.

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Comments (84)

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Otto's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:25 am

Integrity. Well done.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 31, 2019 at 02:05 pm

Andy does great work. I expect if he keeps it up it will pay off for him.

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GBPDAN1's picture

June 01, 2019 at 10:01 pm

I went through basically the same pre-draft analysis, and then thought process during the draft up to our pick, that you did Andy. When I saw who was left standing, I wanted BG to trade back a few spots. I didn't even have Gary on my first rd draft board.

I was disappointed. But, having studied the pick more and reading the Packers staffs high praise regarding Gary, I'm now excited to see how he develops. This article has helped my enthusiasm. Thank you

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IceBowl's picture

June 01, 2019 at 10:22 pm

GBPDAN1,

You say, as do so many here .... "When I saw who was left standing, I wanted BG to trade back a few spots."

But that assumes a trading partner into the spot you are willing to drop back to. Some how you all assume that perfect scenario exists.

The draft is not Candyland!!

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GBPDAN1's picture

June 03, 2019 at 05:46 pm

I agree IceBowl. The draft is not Candyland . I didn't say I faulted GB for not trading down a few , as I totally understand the concept of trading partners and trading value.

What I said was I wanted this to happen ( not that I was criticizing) at that point of the live draft to make the point that I thought we could have pick the same value a few picks later, which is basically saying I wasn't overly excited by who was left at the 12 spot, which most certainly included Gary. This is what the point was that i was trying to get across, which is what the article was about... Corey's initial opinion about Gary, which was my initial opinion.

In hindsight, I didn't express myself properly. I should have said " I was hoping that a trade could have been arranged" instead of "I wanted BG to trade".... which to me was the same thing, but I understand why you miss interrupted me.

Sorry if this ruffled your feathers and upset your day

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Coldworld's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:25 am

Interesting explanation. First takes on anything are always potentially dangerous because they color the way one’s mind interprets subsequent information. In the hotbed of draft analysis with so many players and so much happening, I imagine it’s hard to take that mental step back necessary for dispassionate self analysis on a player.

This was interesting not only for the insight into your post draft journey to reassessment, but for that into how you reached your earlier conclusion. I found that very illuminating and applaud you for being so open about it.

If I have one question lingering (none of us can yet know how he will perform in the NFL), it is that of effort. It’s easy to see highlights, but highlights can’t speak to effort or consistency. You have obviously now watched a lot of film multiple times. What made you initially see him as a hot and cold player and what particularly do you see now that contradicts that?

Thank you for this piece.

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 11:20 am

Coldworld I'm not sure who made the up the b.s story about Gary's motor because it's not true. Every single coach at Michigan spoke of his intensity and love for the game. And I love Andy Hermanns work as he is very good [the best actually] at what he does. But unlike Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks he has never scouted professionally for a team. That does not mean he is not good it just means he doesn't have experience in knowing all the insights to what teams are looking for. But a lot of the guys he listed as having mocked Gary somewhere lower, I just scratch my head over. It seems to me that most of them if they truly knew what they were looking at in depth would not say Gary was unproductive. I know Bucky Brooks and Jeremiah didn't because they actually studied Gary without bias and UNDERSTOOD what Gary's job within Michigan's defense was. Very impressive and well written article. I look forward to more from my favorite CHTV writer Andy Hermann.

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fthisJack's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:32 am

Andy, were you as disappointed as i was last year when the Packers traded down and passed on Derwin James. i was ticked off for a week but in hindsight it didn't turn out so bad. the GM and the scouts know a lot more than i do so this year when the pick was made, i was shocked but not bent out of shape like last year. and as time passes i am starting to believe that Gute made a really astute choice!

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Freezn's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:35 am

Mr. Gary will learn from two pretty relentless pass rushers and I believe apposing offenses will not know which direction Mike Pettine will be sending any of the three outside linebackers from. I believe that's pretty scary for quarterbacks and apposing lineman

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Freezn's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:38 am

Runaway train at 277 pounds

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Bearmeat's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:07 am

I appreciate the balls you have in going back and looking at your process and noting where it failed. But I do not agree with your re-assessment of Gary. Caveat: no fan can tell another how to be a fan. That's a DHole move.

So, OF COURSE, I'm going to break my own rule, be a total DHole, and tell you that IMO the only reason you feel the need to self-scout your process regarding Gary is that you ARE a fan. My man, let your original reservations stand as they are and hope for the best! And I freely admit that I am also a fan - and not a particularly optimistic one at that. Further, while I've watched pro football closely and passionately for two decades, I admit that I know nothing about the game on the level needed to analyze these elite athletes at an accurate level. So it is possible, even probable, that I am wrong.

But I do not like the lack of production in college. I do not like him sitting out games where his coaches thought he could play. I do not like his shoulder injury coming in. I don't care about the excuses about WHY those things are the way they are. This is the #12 pick, darn it. We're not seeing #12 again as long as we have 12 under center. This was a draft with great front 7 talent... which we desperately need... and we took a guy we could have taken probably 10 picks later.

I didn't like the pick when it was made. I don't like it now. And that's the hill I will die on. Now, all that said, I hope I'm dead wrong and have to eat a pile of crow. He's a Packer. I will root for him. And Gute is clearly all in. Just like MLF, this is a swing for the fences pick. If Gary hits, I think he'll be a BIG hit! But it's IMO just as likely that he'll bust and/or be hurt a lot.

Thus ends my Gary manifesto. lol.

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Coldworld's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:29 am

Lol Bear, take a stand and evidence be damned. If you don’t look no reason to question right?

Who knows? Personally, the willingness to reevaluate and self challenge demonstrated by the author is impressive and refreshing. We are none of us infallible.

On this occasion I hope he is right and you wrong, but the one incontrovertible truth is that none of us can know for sure till Gary has had some time in the league. In the meantime, I’m glad those who write for us try to ensure that they keep an open mind.

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jannes bjornson's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:06 pm

At least he doesn't have to eat a 4M signing bonus on a fraud like Jones or Worthy etc, just ask Ted.

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Bearmeat's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:14 pm

Agreed completely, Coldworld. I too hope I am wrong and he is right. My point is that the author probably would not have been doing a re-take on Gary if Gary was not a Packer. There were darn good reasons for his original take. Good reasons that (aside from some mental gymnastics, and yes, some reviewing of film) still stand.

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Tundraboy's picture

June 01, 2019 at 08:34 pm

"My point is that the author probably would not have been doing a re-take on Gary if Gary was not a Packer. "

Doesn't that go without saying?

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:36 pm

Well while you list everything you don't like about Gary you forgot to list that you love speculation and baseless rumors because that's all they are as none of it has been corroborated by his coaches or Gary. Good thing you're not a GM Bearmeat it would be too easy to steal the best players from you as all anyone would have to do is start a rumor and watch you bite then bypass on future all pros. And please don't tell me that your assessment is based on anything you saw because I know you didn't see any of what you listed, you're just regurgitating what some clueless writer wrote for his deadline story. And you're right about one thing though and that is no one can tell a fan how to be a fan, if you choose to believe everything you read from people who don't know their A-hole from a hole in the ground that is indeed your choice. I would love to hear exactly where you read all this speculation about Gary and who wrote it.

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Bearmeat's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:14 pm

What a kind and well-written response! Your insults have COMPLETELY changed my mind. I am now 100% behind YOUR opinion, good sir. And 4 upvotes vs. 0 downvotes so far! Fan-Flippin-Tastic! This says not so good things about Packers fans talking about football in June ....smh...

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:42 pm

Really Bearmeat? At what point did I insult you? I don't remember calling you names or anything. I simply pointed out the truth. If facing the truth is insulting to you maybe you should reevaluate your perspective on things. You could call me an A-hole and I wouldn't be insulted because I know at certain times it can be true. That's what's called accepting reality. I'm sorry if I offended you but I am a person who does not believe in whitewashing truth to spare feelings [at least with adults]. And while I may speak unadulterated truth I will not call you all kinds of names to get my point across.

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Bearmeat's picture

June 01, 2019 at 08:39 am

It has nothing to do with being an adult, and everything to do with not being an AHole. On this thread you have been the textbook version of the latter. What I think about it is irrelevant. You've labeled yourself.

We will agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

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JakeDickerson's picture

May 31, 2019 at 01:24 pm

How could you know he would be available 10 picks later? You can’t. I disliked the pick initially too. I was caught up in what everyone on the internet was telling me about his production and effort. But what I kept noticing was that the people that actually matter, the people with actual NFL experience, kept ranking this guy at the top of the draft. I’m glad these types of articles have come out to vindicate the kid who looks to have done nothing to deserve the criticism he’s been subject to. Ultimately whether we like the pick or not doesn’t matter. The coaching staff doesn’t care and the front office doesn’t care. No one bats a 1.000.

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Bearmeat's picture

June 01, 2019 at 08:41 am

I don't know that he would have, other than mock drafts. I still would have rather had Burns or Allen. But it's done. It was never my call to begin with. He's a Packer. I hope he turns into Reggie White.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

June 02, 2019 at 02:27 am

I didn't like the pick and still don't. He certainly is an elite athlete, but he has some flags.

He has very underwhelming college stats. Despite playing for good coaches at Michigan, he doesn't string moves together often and his footwork is not good. He has some kind of injury concern. I had some concern as to whether at 277 lbs he was a tweener for a 3-4 team, but at least he has always been good against the run, which alleviated some concerns. Although GB announced him as an OLB, I doubt he will be asked to be a complete 3-4 OLB.

Gary is an exciting pick. I would have preferred the pick to come with fewer flags, but the upside is there.

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Freezn's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:43 am

We also have three outside linebackers with speed power and nasty attitudes. I believe our relenting defenses will put the fear of God into offenses with a great seconday this year especially with 2 great new safties going to be fun to watch Mike Pettine dial up the pressure

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realitybytez's picture

June 01, 2019 at 10:53 am

i have to believe that "relenting" is not the word you wanted to use.

relenting
Inclining to relent or yield; soft; too easily moved; soft-hearted; weakly complaisant.

perhaps you meant unrelenting or relentless?

i've had more than enough of soft defenses.

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Johnblood27's picture

June 01, 2019 at 01:13 pm

Words...

They mean things...

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ElkhornPackFan's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:59 am

Nice write up but I’m going to wait until we see him play when it counts—not pre-season but real games.

And then I’ll give him a couple years for the 2019 draft class to develop before concluding if this was a good pick.

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nostradanus's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:02 am

Just shows that we draft geeks can study all we want, read all the draft magazines and mock drafts, but we still do not have the inside information and expertise that the guys that do it for a living do. Even so the pro evaluators are about 50/50

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Since'61's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:02 am

Andy - good job on your self scout. It’s an excellent approach towards self-improvement. Have you also self-scouted on the picks you agreed with?

Remember, don’t be too hard on yourself. You are a one man band compared with teams that have millions of dollars invested in their scouting departments, not to mention decades of accumulated experience. They should do a better job than any of us in selecting players. Second, always keep an open mind and try not to bring any preconceived ideas or “baggage” as I call it, into your process. You’re still young and you have plenty of upside. I hope that you enjoy what you do as much as I enjoy and look forward to your articles.
Thanks, Since ‘61

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Leatherhead's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:10 am

It is inarguable that human nature is to see what we expect to see. Countless psychological studies have been done that confirm that. It doesn't matter if it's sports, or politics, or women, or whatever......we tend to see what we expect to see. It's a human bias.

Thus the expression "the wisdom of the crowd", because the assumption is that the more viewpoints that are included, the less bias is introduced. But that assumes that the crowd doesn't have a bias, and all too often it does.

I think Gary will be a fine player for us if he stays healthy. OF course, I've said the same thing about Justin Harrell, Derrick Sherrod, Nick Perry, Alex Green, Jonathan Franklin, etc. etc. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Worst case scenario is that he's hurt a lot and never really helps. Best case scenario is that he's a ProBowl caliber player who really helps the defense.

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greengold's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:15 am

Andy, I felt your pain as if we were in the same body...

I was devastated, and could not fathom them taking a player who was injured, had poor stats, and a possible attitude problem.

Well, all of that was spoon fed to me and all of us draft geeks through the draft experts, and I mean many of them.

It seriously took me a while to calm down after what I had thought was a grave error in GB. Turns out, after watching every game he played (not just highlights), the grave error was mine. A person can read stuff from other writers ad nauseam, and I've learned it best to trust your eye, and see what is really happening.

I agree with you completely, and I thank you for sharing your experience, and your change of heart with regards to Rashan Gary being selected #12. After seeing every game available, it is no wonder the guy didn't rack up the stat pile. Teams directed their play away from him consistently, and I mean a solid 80% of the time or more. Add to that, the guy was doubled or tripled maybe 55% of the time or more, and others on that Michigan Defense were the ones benefiting in the stat column.

The way I look at it, after seeing what actually happened, go ahead and take half of Bush's and Winovich's stats and throw them Gary's way. Might make people think of him differently, and I think that is what Devin Bush was alluding to.

Another consideration is Gutekunst's street cred, which I believe he has rightly earned since he took over. They have immense resources, saw the shoulder as being a minor issue, and knew Gary well after studying him for years. Wonderlick? Who cares? Those numbers will never look good when a person has dyslexia. Gary is all about football, and he has incredible football intelligence and instincts. The coaches are going to love coaching him up.

One last thing, Gary was the best player on that Michigan defense. Now, with the Packers, there are a number of players we can point to that are better than Gary at this moment. Opposing offenses are not going to be able to double Gary like he was at Michigan. This is going to really, really fun to see.

Thanks again for the great piece, Andy!

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 11:41 am

Nice post greengold, I thoroughly enjoyed just like Andy's article.

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Qoojo's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:26 am

The only thing that has changed since then is you listened to the Packers reasoning, and the explanation for lack of production. It sounds like it persuaded you a bit?

My only concern is the injury. Given packers' history and track record on injuries. I am not draftnik so talent-wise I am fine with it. Generally speaking, I don't like it when the packers draft a guy to play a completely different position, and/or draft someone way too early.

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jannes bjornson's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:13 pm

He was projected to Gettleman at #6 or #8 to Detroit. If an OT doesn't rip his arm up and judo flip him he should weather his shoulder issue and contribute to the Edge and pass rush.

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greengold's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:44 am

The only thing that changed for me was that I studied film to see what he actually brings as the #12 pick.

All too often we get caught up in both stats and reading others analysis as if it is the definitive word on a player. Really opinions vary, and there was a consensus that built momentum that he was not giving 100% effort, that he was not productive, and his stats reflected that, so, one assumes that must be the case, and he's not a great player.

Watch those Michigan games to see what happened. That exercise is a real eye opener.

I do agree with you, Qoojo, on not drafting injured players. That is my only concern with the pick. However, they checked him out thoroughly, and I'm ok trusting they did their due diligence with such an important, significant pick at #12 for the Packers.

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imnion's picture

May 31, 2019 at 10:47 am

Very good piece Andy. This is the kind of stuff I like reading. I hardly read any of the Milwaukee Journal stuff anymore. Too many ads and a bunch of fluff. Plus those worthless interviews that girl does with the writers.

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Tarynfor12's picture

May 31, 2019 at 11:39 am

This is called ' going the way the wind is blowing.' When a majority of your peers, writers here and the usual bow down fans, clamor to build up one who wasn't suppose to be picked so as not to be the outsider.
You didn't like Gary and you should stick with your evaluation until you actually see something in his on field play to alter your thinking.
I stood by my decisions on Perry,Starks,Worthy,Fackrell, Janis,Hundley,Neal,Peppers,Lang,Nelson,J.Jones, some back to AL's old site,and others until proven right or wrong, and have been proved both but absolutely more right than wrong. Some of these were not draft decisions but decisions that were suppose to help our team and some immensely at the time.
Stick to your guns until your outnumbered by being proved wrong and not just because the number of others say you should because they haven't proved it and the player hasn't proved nobody right or wrong as yet.

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 06:35 pm

Taryn you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed are you? He tells you he didn't study Gary and formed his opinion on heresay and you tell him to stick with it? Even though when he did study him he found the rumors you love to propagate along with so many other clueless fans to be pure horse manuer, Lmao. Just further proof you'll say any dumb shit just to play devils advocate and pretend to sound smart and well informed.

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LambeauPlain's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:35 pm

Proven more right than wrong as an armchair scout?

Starks,Worthy,Fackrell, Janis,Hundley,Neal,Peppers,Lang,Nelson,J.Jones.

Starks, Fackrell, Neal, Peppers, Lang, Nelson, J. Jones....all producers for the Pack and good players.

Looks to me like you were wrong 70% of the time with those players...not more "right".

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Coldworld's picture

May 31, 2019 at 01:25 pm

The wisdom of hindsight is wonderfully easy to attain and totally useless in reality. Moreover, when that hindsight is, as you point out, colored by a seeming desire for self- congratulation and superiority, it Has a tendency to be positively harmful storytelling. Couple that with the negativity and we have a whirling vortex of a black hole.

If our scouts hit 70% of the time, we should be very happy. That still means that 30% of the time armchair dullards like myself will have the opportunity to say I told you so from the get go based on little true research and then years after it made a difference. even if anyone listened.

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Tarynfor12's picture

May 31, 2019 at 01:13 pm

Excuse me...
I selected Starks as a sleeper pick..Right
I was against Perry...Right
I selected Fackrell and jumped off too early...half right
I wanted Nelson when it was Nelson/Jones to retain back at Al's site...right
I wanted Lang when most wanted him cut his first season...right
I didn't think Peppers who be special for GB...right
I supported Janis...wrong but with caveat....Rodgers
II didn't want Neal resigned...right
I didn't want Hundley ever...right
I didn't want Worthy...right
I felt Randall and Rollins were wasted picks...right
I didn't want Lacy...right
I didn't want Dix...right
I didn't want Sherrod..right with caveat...injury
I didn't like Adams...wrong
I didn't like Finley...right mostly
I liked Newhouse more than Sherrod...50/50
The list goes on but why bother.

All reasons why I have yearly said this team is filled with C/C- and couple B/B+ and an A player.

All these are verifiable and if you wish to prove otherwise it's easy....because most of what I say here most are against and the archives if you wish to search are there...do it..prove me a liar...otherwise accept my being right much more than or go back to your fence post and snuggle on it tightly.

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Coldworld's picture

May 31, 2019 at 01:36 pm

All of us here have argued for various players and against others here and at All. GBP and elsewhere at one time or another. It doesn’t mean our knowledge was strong or our opinions logical. With a historic success rate like that of the draft, we can always be right a lot without any wisdom and for reasons that may be way off base.

Even the best full time scouts have records that are more similar to a baseball hitter than a marksman. When you tilt the results further into the questionable—was Lacy a bad signing? That’s a decent debate not a foregone conclusion—credibility only eroded further.

I thought Peppers was not a wise pick up at his age. Well, I was wrong. He was an excellent addition. You were also wrong, but you still seem to be unable to process that judging by your “not special” comment. Or is it the need to weight the facts to support your position?

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Tarynfor12's picture

May 31, 2019 at 01:53 pm

My whole point is stick to what you say until proven wrong as to players. Naturally one's assessment should be based on whatever written info and video you have, what I did/do. If the writer of this article based his early decision while not using either, he shouldn't have made a decision about the player at all for principles sake as a writer and self promoted scout.
Again, this change of mind about Gary seems more about staying in the club of..if your a player with GB you now must be heralded as good/great before a single real NFL snap is played.
I base my draft on college tape etc but once drafted that means nothing...now the players value is based on what he does in the NFL for the team he plays.
I know why I wanted or not want a player come draft, now I decide why I want to keep/cut a player based on what he does come Aug and beyond, especially those I wanted in the draft and why I would change my mind on those I didn't if in GB. Certainly not to appease others and remain in good graces of those.

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Coldworld's picture

May 31, 2019 at 02:18 pm

I think one should have an open mind, it’s fine to express an view, we all do, though preferably sometimes shout out for a positive one, not just negatives. That said, none of us know that we are right. We don’t see enough, know enough to. And certainly not enough to close our eyes to further information. To stick to a view regardless of new information isn’t sharp. It’s smart not weak to change to reflect increased information. That doesn’t mean be swayed by team hype or peer pressure, but it does mean when a kid flashes something, don’t deny the flash. Don’t anoint either, but be aware that the picture may be evolving. Such evolution is what gets us to proof over time.

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AndyHerman's picture

May 31, 2019 at 02:51 pm

I think it's been made clear through a few of your posts that you didn't really read the article. I start the article by stating I went through months of watching tape, not just on Gary, but on multiple players. When I'm scouting 100's of players before the process I go through as much tape as I can, but I can't go through every game possible for every player, that's simply not possible.

After the pick was made I had the ability to go back and spend a ton of time on Gary and watch as much video as I could find on him, research him more, etc... I also got to see him practice in person. I heard more about him from his college coach, all of these things I mentioned in my initial article.

I also stated, I didn't want to flip. The easier thing to do would be to just stick with my initial assessment, gut it out, hope I'm right, and move on. But the more I watched him the more I felt my initial assessment was incorrect, hence today's article.

I also stated in my article, my change of heart doesn't guarantee anything. It doesn't mean he'll be a great player, live up to pick 12, or even that I necessarily would have picked him at 12 if the choice was mine. But it does mean that there were things I missed on my initial assessment that I needed to vet out; again... hence the article today.

Sticking to my initial point just for the point of sticking to it isn't the right move. I'd rather do the process the right way than dig my heels in, be stubborn and live with the outcomes. I try to learn from my mistakes and be better going forward.

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greengold's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:12 pm

I'm glad you said that, Andy, as I was dying to do same.

For myself, I check out so many players simply because I enjoy the personnel side of the game. Gary was getting so much negative press, that I pretty much didn't dive in to take a really good look. And, as you say, it takes more time than we have.

Once the pick is made, you have time to delve further into what the attributes were that made Gary the #1 player on their board.

I really knew nothing about him, except for the negatives that were splashed around on about 8-10 different draft sites. After taking the time to watch how he plays, what adversely affected his numbers, I'm left thinking that Rashan Gary could be a true gem.

Holding to your opinion just for that sake seems foolish, when that opinion was misinformed. Going back and doing some homework is the right thing to do, and then allowing for an adjustment in one's original stance. Good job!

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Jonathan Spader's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:31 pm

Andy,

That's exactly what I got from the article you wrote. That I initially you weren't impressed with Gary based by the limited tape you saw on him predraft. Post draft you went back and watched a lot more tape on Gary and started to see what limited his production numbers. You saw his impact on the game even if it didn't show up on the stat sheet.

I didn't watch a lot of college football in 2018. My first impression of Gary was at the combine. Seeing him run a 4.58 at his height and weight was eye opening. Everything I read about him was nothing but negative. Made me nervous about him as a prospect. When the Packers drafted him I felt disappointed the pick I was hoping for went immediately afterwards.

Even though I was disappointed with the selection I'm excited to see how Pettine uses the Smiths and Gary. I felt a lot better about the selection after hearing Mike Smith speak about him. I haven't talked myself into or out of liking the pick but I now feel cautiously optimistic instead of disappointed.

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Coldworld's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:57 pm

Well put JS.

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flackcatcher's picture

May 31, 2019 at 04:07 pm

Andy, Gary is a special player. That said, as I put it down thread, 'don't sweat it'. There was no way any draft nick could know what the Packers were thinking until free agency, and even then that would all depend of what type of scheme Pettine wanted to run on this defense. Last time Packers saw a elephant type was in 2012-2015 under Dom Capers. And while it was very successful, injuries and NFL(PED suspensions)ruined that defense. So taking an another look at Gary, with what we fans know in how the Packers plan to run their defense, is understandable and perfectly reasonable. First rule of analysis is keeping an open mind. Second rule is always to 'check your six.' Andy, you have done both here. I wish more NFL media types would have the guts to do what you have done here more often. Thank you.

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porupack's picture

May 31, 2019 at 04:45 pm

Andy,
classy and gutsy response.

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imnion's picture

May 31, 2019 at 05:39 pm

I think you explained yourself very well. The article was an excellent read.

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 08:22 pm

I love the article Andy great job. The one thing I would challenge you on about Gary is his one star you gave him for lack of production. I would say he had a lack of statistics and not production. To say he didn't produce would equate to saying he was ineffective and that is not the case. He was very effective and productive in his ability to set the edge, stop the run, and keep Winovich and Bush clean while pressuring the QB. Production and stats do not always equate to the same thing. And that is not to pick on you as everyone say's lack of production instead of lack of stats although they are not the same thing.

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flackcatcher's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:26 pm

No Taryn, your just trolling. And everybody on this thread is too polite to say it. Folks respect your views enough to take you seriously. Remember that the next time you get the urge.

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Coldworld's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:59 pm

I think the cloth is becoming increasingly threadbare though.

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Lare's picture

May 31, 2019 at 04:05 pm

Not many people keep score of their opinions on draft picks though.

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 04:05 pm

"I felt Randall and Rollins were wasted picks...right" Are you trying to say you knew Capers was going to play Randall out of position and keep him there? Or are you saying Randall sucks and wasn't worth a first round pick? Or are you saying you knew he'd be traded. Sorry, but I highly highly doubt you knew any of that before Randall was drafted.
Because Randall played excellent ball for GB at times and has only gotten better since being moved to safety in Cleveland. So why did you feel Randall was a wasted pick? Seems to me you're just using the fact that GB traded him to bolster your argument.

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JakeDickerson's picture

May 31, 2019 at 11:56 pm

Half of the decisions he got “right” happened because the player was injured. Just saying.

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IceBowl's picture

May 31, 2019 at 04:32 pm

Tarynfor12,

You say .... "My whole point is stick to what you say until proven wrong as to players."

Really?? Form your opinion, and then never look at/for new information to self correct or self assure??

Really?? WOW!!! Your first opinion is always your best/right?

I have to admit I am not in your class. Some of my initial opinions are proven wrong/half true with new information. And I like new information all the time.

I think I am better for self scouting.

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fastmoving's picture

June 01, 2019 at 06:28 am

I didn't think Peppers who be special for GB...Right????????????????
I didn't want Lacy...Right???????????????????????????????????????????????

dont know what this stuff should prove. but every Monkey with a dartboard would do much better………. Maybe even the wig would do better and that means a lot. Hmm, no he would not, but he would talk like it...…..all the time.

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fastmoving's picture

June 01, 2019 at 03:13 am

and your stuff is called "going against the wind". its nothing smart or special. Actually the same thing like everybody else, just the other direction.

But to think that this is kind of smart or even smarter is just laughable. But its fits in with all you posts. You like to be funny and smart. And you are really one out of the two things...………..

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ILPackerBacker's picture

May 31, 2019 at 11:39 am

Really well done. Emphasis on ALWAYS going back to see why you are right or wrong.

I had 8 players on the top tier of 'take if there'. But I don't study all potential top players just ones that are at positions that the pack needs or players who seem over the top good. All were gone at 12. I didn't think the position was in need and was hopeful that we could trade down.

After the choice I put some effort into Gary. Happy with his choice but I still would not expand the top 8 to become the top 9.

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nathanj's picture

May 31, 2019 at 11:41 am

During the draft, I was happy with the pick. The other edge guys seemed too small, including Burns. It's hopefully rare that the Packers miss the playoffs going forward and will be picking in the 20s & 30s in future years, and this is an opportunity to get an elite athlete on defense. From the film highlight packages, I enjoyed the interior DL making plays near the sidelines. Reminds me of Jadeveon Clowney, who was also a true junior with elite athletic traits, went #1 despite similar lack of production his junior season (Clowney had 3 sacks). Gary & Clowney have near identical 40, wingspan, broad jump, vertical, 3 cone, and 20 yard shuttle. The lack of sacks is why Gary was available at #12, instead of top 3. I am hopeful that lack of production is due to scheme/true junior/injuries rather than ability. I'm optimistic on his future production. Happy to hear he's looking the part at OTAs.

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Monsmoy's picture

May 31, 2019 at 11:54 am

Good article. I was of the same mindset on draft night. I felt somewhat deflated after all the amateur analysis in the preceding months. Moreover, I struggled to see where he fitted in. Subsequently, it transpires that binary position allocation is no longer possible, but at the time I could not easily allocate him as an OLB.
However, I fully recognise I am a spectator and the coaches are the pros and, if they rate him, I am more than happy to get on the Gary bus. I wish him and all the other rookies a great season.

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Rak47's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:04 pm

A lot of fans will be eating crow on Gary. I'm with Mike Smith in that I believe he is the best edge rusher in the draft. And I do watch/study film and always have since my playing days. Can't wait to see all the flip flops after the season.

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jannes bjornson's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:39 pm

It was either Gary or Sweat at the #12. Sweat could rush from the Edge but would be a liability against the run. Gary hit all the marks for Pettine. My nephew, the football coach, made a comparison of Gary, on draft day, to Bruce Smith. Similar body types and speed. The ultimate unknown is heart and the ability to follow the path to greatness: Desire, Determination, Dedication.

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Handsback's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:24 pm

Andy, good article about Gary. The time I saw him his size is what overwhelms you. His thickness and seems very light on his feet. It's like seeing a person who plays a sport with a whole different tool box then the other players.
I was on the never-Burns bandwagon because of his weight. My thoughts are big fast guys aren't that available in the real world and Gary was one of them. Guys like Burns can make it, but will never have the impact that guys like Mack and hopefully Gary.

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LambeauPlain's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:36 pm

I enjoy analytical sports writing seasoned with humility and retrospection teamed with the enthusiasm of a fan. Why even write it if you are not an enthusiastic fan of the sport you opine on?

I had the EXACT same emotions as Andy on draft day when Gary was drafted because I felt Burns was going to be the guy. Sacks, pressures, TFLs, winning consistently one on one, upside and production galore.

And Gary's shoulder issue is still a concern because these cartilage joint tears almost always need surgery if you use the shoulder joint aggressively...as an NFL pass rusher needs to.

However, listening to the pass rush guru, Mike Smith absolutely gush about Gary gave me some pause. He did a deep dive into the pass rushers in the draft and for what he and Pettine want to do in 2019, Gary was the #1 guy on their list. He was giddy Gary dropped to them. That's encouraging!

So, like Andy, I did some review of Gary and he is not a loafer...he breathes fire on almost every play. He was the guy on the Michigan D offenses schemed to try to neutralize. It is hard to rack numbers when the play is away from you or you are double teamed.

So I have come to accept the best player for the Pack from the draft need not be the most shiny chess piece, but the chess piece you can most effectively and efficiently attack with.

I believe Pettine, Smith and Montgomery are excited to play chess with Gary on the field.

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Mark Gaedtke's picture

May 31, 2019 at 12:46 pm

Love the insights here. As for my opinion, if Gary was such a putrid player, what was he doing starting on a premier Big Ten team? Why not replace him with a good player? And why did opposing teams constantly double team and run away from him? Why did Bush say Gary should have gone ahead of him in the draft? Was he just being nice? Is his opinion credible? Like many here have said, we can't fairly judge these players for years, but that won't stop us. After all, the speculation is half the fun. . .

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wildbill's picture

May 31, 2019 at 01:59 pm

Have to admit I didn’t want us to draft Gary at 12. No I don’t break down college tape as I very seldom even watch college ball, and not because of the negative pundit reports. I just felt we would use him in an “elephant” role and we have had very little success with that role. Peppers was good but he is a once in a lifetime talent. That being said I am excited about the talent and depth of our front seven and think he will be a big part of that. He is part of the Packer Family now and deserves our full support as it’s not his fault where he was drafted

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flackcatcher's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:38 pm

As most folks have said Andy, don't sweat it. Drafting is always a pick-em game even for the best front offices in the NFL. (And the Packers front office is acknowledged as one of the best in the league.) Your strength is that you are very clear in what you can't see or understand. That my friend is very rare in the world of 'experts'. Looking forward to your break downs on this team as this season progresses.

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Lare's picture

May 31, 2019 at 03:55 pm

Nobody on the planet knows how the Rashan Gary pick will turn out, it all comes down to factors such as desire, training, coaching, scheme and injury.

There are draft picks I liked, others I didn't, but the time to judge them overall is a few years down the line, not during their first OTA's.

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

May 31, 2019 at 04:55 pm

He was a top-5 talent & we got him.
We never usually have chances at guys as talented as him because we usually draft in the 20's and should be picking at 32

Andy, I respect the eating crow like this as it takes more cajones to say "my bad" than it does to scream out "see I was right!" like some fans do. Some fans who never even studied the player but merely repeated the talking points from others, like a parrot.

I'm old enough to remember drafting Rich Campbell ahead of Ronnie Lott.

I've been right on many bad picks where our GM was wrong.
But I've also been wrong many times. Big.

I was mad at taking Greg Jennings. I was mad at trading up and taking the unproductive Clay Matthews. I also didn't want KStates Jordy Nelson.

I was happy about Rodgers being stolen as I had him as #1 that draft per my Sporting News Draft book.
But I didn't know or want Nick Collins.

And unlike Andy, I was happy about Jerel Worthy as I thought he destroyed a good Wisconsin offensive line.

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IceBowl's picture

May 31, 2019 at 09:10 pm

Andy,

I'm glad you stay with the ship, because with so many looking to criticize (seemingly anything), it may look to be a lost cause.

Hopefully you understand the trolls. I can't imagine any of those with negative comments read you article, just as you say.

Is there points, or tickets awarded here for posting "whatever?"

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JakeDickerson's picture

June 01, 2019 at 12:01 am

You’ve seen every teams draft board? I know your not referencing draftniks as “everyone”, because 80-90% had him in AT LEAST the top 15.

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NitschkeFan's picture

June 01, 2019 at 11:15 am

"no one had him high", LOL! What were you reading before the draft? CHTV (yeah that's this blog you are commenting on) had a draft guide with Gary ranked as the 7th best prospect in the whole draft.

Over another dozen guides I read had him ranked anywhere from top 5 to top 20.

And of course you and I have no idea where NFL GM's had him rated.

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IceBowl's picture

June 01, 2019 at 09:44 pm

D Ernie says,

You say ... "No one had him high."

Frankly, you are very mistaken!!

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croatpackfan's picture

June 01, 2019 at 05:33 am

I believe that many of us made some bad decisions (important too) and bad evaluations based on opinions of others, fears, emotions, first views and first analysis.

But only those who can learn from their mistakes can advance in their lives, professions, and society.

You have no reason to be hard on you, but you show us that we can trust your work and evaluations.

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Coldworld's picture

June 01, 2019 at 06:06 am

There is a reason why teams employ a plethora of scouts to evaluate players on a full time basis and others to evaluate the evaluations as well as external professionals such as Scouts Inc. to do independent evaluation. Despite all that teams miss as often as not.

There are no guarantees with people and the NFL is a different level of challenge, I think it’s about 2% of the best college players that get a sniff of an NFL squad. Certainly it’s a tiny fraction. The step up physically let alone mentally is huge.

It’s a hard business. Everyone is wrong a lot!

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MarkinMadison's picture

June 01, 2019 at 06:41 am

So the only real remaining question that Andy didn't address much is the shoulder. I was a bit harsh to someone who compared Gary to Kevin King in the first 48 hours after the pick. I thought we didn't know enough to compare the two. I thought a guy who pops up 225 lbs. that many times must be ready to go. A month in and we know I was wrong and the concern is valid. (How many times would he have put up 225 lbs. if he had been completely healthy?) I'm hoping for the best for Gary but I'm not expecting too much until 2020. Limiting his snaps and keeping him healthy enough will be the theme for 2019.

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Coldworld's picture

June 01, 2019 at 11:42 am

We have been told that the motion in the bench press is not a risk for his injury by medical contributors. These injuries have also been played through by others playing similar positions in the past. Apparently, the corrective surgery, if required, is routine and recovery in an off season is expected.

All of this is taken from statements of medically qualified individuals. I have no personal knowledge. Apparently, the biggest risk occurs with arms extended over shoulder height. That’s a big issue for a CB, not so much for an OLB/DE.

Other than the docs who have examined him, we don’t know the severity of his condition. Perhaps only the Packers doctors know how similar it is to King’s and the comparative severity. All I do hear is that surgery is typically a successful resolution.

Typically obviously doesn’t mean always, but with the well known caution of the Packers medical staff, I feel pretty confident that Gary will be fine over the course of his time with us.

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IceBowl's picture

June 01, 2019 at 09:55 pm

MarkinMadison,

You say ... "I thought a guy who pops up 225 lbs. that many times must be ready to go. A month in and we know I was wrong and the concern is valid."

Can you please tell me where your connections to the Pack medical stall can be found?? You say there is a "concern" but the medical team cleared Gary.

I would say there is a "concern" for every player from the head down to the toes, but if the Pack medical team clears them, as must happen to be acquired/drafted, we are fine.

And yes, injuries happen.

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Nick Perry's picture

June 01, 2019 at 09:45 am

Nice job Andy.... I think a lot of us weren't happy with the pick initially but like you I've watched more film on him, read other stories, and come around on him... Probably more than others.

This was one of my comments about Gary on Draft Night...

Nick Perry says:
April 25, 2019 at 07:00 pm(edit)
This pick is just unexplainable to me. I'm in shock and totally disgusted.
I guess protecting our 36 year old QB who had the shit beat out of him last season isn't important. It will be when Spriggs is trying to block Mack.

I also made a comment about the shoulder injury and another about taking the best O-Lineman who was sitting there but we didn't take him either.

I've come around on Gary quite a bit and I think the MAIN reason is that he's tailor made for the scheme. A second reason is he's EXCELLENT against the run. Matter of fact both Gary and Preston Smith are fantastic against the run and holding the edge. If Gary manages 5 or so (though I think it will be more...I have a feeling) and be stout against the run I'd be happy as hell as a rookie. With some of the RB the Packers will face this season they'll need Gary holding the edge.

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Coldworld's picture

June 01, 2019 at 11:32 am

Refreshing candor. I think you nail it in your reasons for amending your view. The fact is, he was pigeonholed by talking heads.

The superficial analysis seems to have been: bug, fast, explosive, must be a primary pass rusher. Not that many sacks. That doesn’t add up. Therefore he must be lazy or simply an athlete not a footballer. These pundits didn’t look at his role, didn’t look at his performance against the run. Probably only looked at highlights and reinforced their initial view by concluding that if he can do those things, he must be a bad motor player not to have 5 times the sack numbers.

The few who spent time analyzing differed but got drowned in the consensus of wisdom. Nice, easy, plausible if you don’t look, excellent pundit material and on to next player.

For the record, I had Gary down as my number one pick ten years ago. Thought he would be a top 3 pick. Well no, actually I had heard of him but no string opinion or knowledge. I formed my opinion weeding through the material available post draft. It was clear that something was at odds with the collective wisdom.

None of us know if my reaction of really liking the potential Gary brings is going to be justified, but there is a lot to like about this kid and a lot to deride about the gross inaccuracy of the talking heads. Our run D got better from day one at least. He is going to ruin days for a number of running backs I suspect.

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Tundraboy's picture

June 01, 2019 at 08:40 pm

What a pissing contest this turned to be.

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IceBowl's picture

June 01, 2019 at 09:37 pm

Tundraboy,

Boy, you have that right.

So many pounding their chests over hearsay, media hype, (fake) "experts opinions," and feelings.

Let me present all those things to the board of directors for my promotion. I would be laughed out of the room in 2 minutes.

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