Rodgers/McCarthy Relationship Put Under a Microscope Again in Tyler Dunne Story

The Rodgers/McCarthy era gets a final exposé over at Bleacher Report, and it's not particularly flattering.

If you’re a Packer fan with a pulse who isn’t living alone in a shack somewhere, you’ve by now read or at least heard about today’s story on the collapse of the Aaron Rodgers/Mike McCarthy relationship by Tyler Dunne for Bleacher Report. If you haven’t read it yet, it’s certainly worth your time.

As with any article that features heavy criticisms of the Packers’ star quarterback, it’s likely to be entirely dismissed by a good portion of the Packer fan base. There is an understandable tendency for people to hear criticism coming from Greg Jennings and Jermichael Finley and immediately dismiss them as being disgruntled former receivers of Rodgers’ with an axe to grind.

While Jennings and Finley have certainly come off as bitter in many of their post-Packers career interviews, I don’t think that should automatically invalidate what they should have to say in this article.

Furthermore, Tyler Dunne is a true pro, and he appears to have put an impressive amount of work into this piece, talking to numerous sources to paint a pretty holistic picture of how McCarthy and Rodgers are viewed, both positively and negatively, by other members of the Packers organization.

I won’t spend much time picking apart specific parts of the article—I’d encourage you to read it yourself and come to your own conclusions. But here are some quick thoughts I had about the story:

On unnamed sources

I think it’s extremely unfair to disqualify the validity of a story because it uses unnamed sources. It’s become unfortunately trendy to completely dismiss a story's value when sources decline to be named in the article, but journalists owe it to their sources to honor their requests to go unnamed, particularly when sensitive matters or relationships are at stake. An anti-media environment in today’s society has conditioned people to believe that “unnamed sources” are just a vehicle for reporters to insert their own made-up facts. That’s not at all true.

On Aaron Rodgers

For all the examples listed in the story, it doesn’t really provide us with any new information about Aaron Rodgers. We’ve had a number of stories detailing Rodgers’ hyper-competitiveness and occasional over-sensitivity. There are plenty of articles already out there with former teammates or others criticizing Rodgers’ leadership, claiming he refuses to accept an appropriate amount of blame, or alleging his ego is out of control.

This article provides us with some new examples of each of these claims and, presumably, some new sources making those claims. But in general, it’s nothing we haven’t heard before.

What stands out to me about responses to articles like this is that people will be very quick to discredit any quotes from Finley or Jennings, but will absolutely eat up any quotes from a Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb that fawn all over Rodgers.

Rodgers is a complicated human being, as are most people. As a hypercompetitive, world-class superstar athlete, his personality and leadership style are going to resonate strongly with some people, and turn other people off. Whether that’s good or bad really depends on your own perspective.

You can’t invalidate the negative opinions about the guy just because you disagree with them, or because he’s a fan favorite. Ultimately, these are the guys who were in the huddle and the locker room with him every single day. Positive or negative, their opinions are valid. How you choose to respond to those opinions is up to you.

While it’s the negative perspectives of Rodgers that will inevitably get the most attention in this article, I think Dunne did a good job of balancing that with people who view Rodgers positively. He showcased that you can’t boil anybody in this scenario down to a villain. Neither Rodgers nor McCarthy are perfect human beings—their combination of strengths and faults brought the team a Super Bowl championship, as well as a pair of consecutive losing seasons.

Trying to simplify “who was at fault” or “who was the bad guy” is a fruitless endeavor, and that, to me, is the basis of Dunne’s story. It’s a depiction of two people as they are, both good and bad.

On Mike McCarthy

That being said, there was some new information about Mike McCarthy in the article. The whole massage bit is something I had certainly never heard before, and I don’t believe I’d ever heard reports that McCarthy frequently would talk himself up as a quarterback guru, wanting to be seen as “the reason” for the team’s success or talking up his time in Kansas City with Joe Montana.

Does any of this surprise me?

Not particularly, no. Maybe the bit about him becoming more withdrawn from his team. I certainly disagree with the assessment of a couple of the sources in the article saying he “gave up” on the Packers—I don’t think Mike McCarthy is capable of giving up on anybody.

But am I surprised that a Super Bowl-winning head coach who has experienced significant success in the league would also have an ego? Not at all. Nor am I surprised that McCarthy would be frustrated or even infuriated by Rodgers undermining him and starting to take greater control over the plays called on the field.

Ultimately, as far as McCarthy is concerned, Dunne’s story reinforces my viewpoint that it was absolutely time for him and the Packers to go in separate directions. But it certainly doesn’t do anything to change my feeling that McCarthy gave a ton to this team and deserves an ample amount of respect.

 

If you’re Rodgers, this is the kind of story you want to drop in April rather than later in the summer. It’ll be a distant memory by the time OTAs begin, let alone training camp. It’s a ceremonial dumping out of the last bits of baggage remaining from the Rodgers/McCarthy era.

There will be those who say this is a sign that Rodgers will be a nightmare for Matt LaFleur to work with, and sure, there’s a possibility of that. But there are so many things that have changed in the Packers’ organization over the last few months that I tend to feel as though it’s more likely that this is a team that will be refreshed and rejuvenated coming into next season.

Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe that’s blind optimism. But there are still three and a half months before the team reports to training camp. So I’m choosing to get excited about what lies ahead, rather than working myself up about what was happening between the quarterback and former coach over the last several years.

It’s time to move forward.

__________________________

Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.

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Comments (188)

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Cubbygold's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:01 pm

I just hope 12 feels a sense of responsibility for what's occurred, both with coaching turnover and the lack of SB wins, and uses this year as an opportunity to show what could have happened since '10. If the problem was all McCarthy, then go out and prove it.

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zoellner25's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:08 pm

couldn't agree more

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GBPDAN1's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:48 pm

I place a lot of blame on Murphy. I read the whole article, what a bunch of dysfunctional BS. He should have canned McCarthy, Thompson and Capers years ago. Then he should have had a sit down with his beyond premadonna QB.

Really hope Lafleur can work with Rodgers better moving forward. Hope Lafleur is a football brainiac. Hope we get this thing worked out and we win another SB or 2 (3-4).

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Barnacle's picture

April 05, 2019 at 07:01 am

McCarthy employed, supported, fired and mismanaged several incompetent coordinators. MM had questionable game plans and single handily lost key games with bad clock management and challenges.

AR was, is and probably always will be worth more to the Packers
than MM ever was. MM was handed a team with great personnel and turned them over to leaders like Slocum, Zook and Capers.

MM was grossly overpaid and should thank his lucky stars for the 10’s of millions he collected while the players were bowling and playing paintball during very limited union allowed practice time.

MM should go get another massage and quit whining.

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Mojo's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:06 pm

So much to unPack (pun intended) in the Dunne article so I'll just hit on one for now.

How can an offense work if the WR's have to chose which pattern to run? Absurd.

I'm starting to wonder how they even won six games last year.

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ricky's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:21 pm

The offense had gone stale. When opposing defenses are calling out the routes before the snap, something needs to change. MM refused to change, so Rodgers decided he had to try to shake things up himself. Do we condemn Rodgers for trying to give his WR's a better chance to get open? Or do we condemn MM for not trying something new?

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ricky's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:21 pm

The offense had gone stale. When opposing defenses are calling out the routes before the snap, something needs to change. MM refused to change, so Rodgers decided he had to try to shake things up himself. Do we condemn Rodgers for trying to give his WR's a better chance to get open? Or do we condemn MM for not trying something new?

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ricky's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:21 pm

The offense had gone stale. When opposing defenses are calling out the routes before the snap, something needs to change. MM refused to change, so Rodgers decided he had to try to shake things up himself. Do we condemn Rodgers for trying to give his WR's a better chance to get open? Or do we condemn MM for not trying something new?

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ricky's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:21 pm

The offense had gone stale. When opposing defenses are calling out the routes before the snap, something needs to change. MM refused to change, so Rodgers decided he had to try to shake things up himself. Do we condemn Rodgers for trying to give his WR's a better chance to get open? Or do we condemn MM for not trying something new?

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porupack's picture

April 05, 2019 at 06:27 am

You finally convinced me on the 4th time posting. Persistence pays:)

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Handsback's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:23 pm

Mojo, I wondered the same thing when I was reading the article. The article does answer some questions as in what happened to MVS towards the end of the season. Also surprised that the Packer's offense has nobody to stand up to the Rodger's bull____ and dysfunction. Usually there's someone on the team that takes a QB into a neutral place and explains the facts to him, guess not in this case. Not looking for any major improvement. Rodgers will make the HOF, but in my mind he'll be one of many QBs that never lived up to his ability. I will add he has come up short in many of the playoff games so I guess he should carry more of that blame verses MM.

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56 Packfan's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:04 pm

I absolutely agree. Other teams scheme their receivers open. If one has to figure out which of numerous options to run on the fly, it gets very difficult if the QB's view differs even slightly. Then Rodgers yells at them for doing the wrong thing. Even if Rodgers is absolutely right, how is someone who is not the brightest bulb suppose to remember what happened between the QB and Jordy 3 years before. McCarthy's system is extremely difficult for young receivers to learn. I just hope LeFluer's receiver options are much more limited so that young, talented (but not the most brilliant) receivers can shine early in their careers. Just as for defense, the key is let players play instinctively instead of having to think.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:40 pm

Its the Pro Game. They're getting paid to learn the plays. They may not know every nuance with the reads but some are very rudimentary. Basic route trees. Simple routes are easy to defend. Get Rodgers some talent around him in the slot/KR ,TE with speed and the OT position. Get a bigger running back.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:18 pm

I can answer that question.

The WRs read the defense and determines how they can best get open. The QB reads the defense and determines where his guy is going to be open. When you're pros and you practice and communicate, you're going to be on the same page a lot, like Rodgers and Nelson always were and were Rodgers and Adams were last year.

When you're playing inexperienced WRs, then you're not going to be on the same page as much, because they don't see what the QB sees.

I mean, you've got your route tree. You're breaking inside or outside, shallow or deep, at a sharp angle or a more oblique one.

We run isolation routes, as opposed to having two receivers work together to clear an area for the third guy. We figure that with 4 guys in the pattern, one of them should be able to beat single coverage. Rodgers looks to see where the single coverage is going to be, and how the defense is set up.

It sounds complicated, but it's worked a long time for us very well.

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Bearmeat's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:12 pm

Count me in the crowd that thinks ARod will eat MLF alive and the team won't win another super bowl until he's gone. I do think a Favre like divorce will come.

MM got too much credit and was never a HOF coach, nor was TT a HOF GM. But ARod needs to calm himself, or we're looking at a truly ugly year.

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Lare's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:25 pm

I don’t expect Rodgers to cause any problems with LaFleur. I think he’ll enjoy the challenge of learning a new innovative offensive scheme and the talent that Gutekunst is bringing in.

I also liked the part about Murphy contacting Rodgers to inform him of LaFleur’s hiring, and telling him directly not to be a problem. The days of Packers management sticking their heads in the sand ignoring problems is gone.

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Bearmeat's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:51 pm

True. That was nice. However, Murphy is also the same one that sat by and watched Ted lose his edge via some type of physical degradation/health issue for years and didn't do a thing about it. Murphy watched Mike keep Dom, Shawn and Ron around for years, despite knowing they were awful.
Murphy originally wanted to hire Russ Ball, as Ted intended. Murphy is now involved in all football operations. Mark Murphy is FAR from blameless.

And can ARod's ego be contained at this point? Or is he so insecure and vindictive that no one can do anything about it? This piece makes me very worried indeed.

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Mojo's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:48 pm

In defense of Murphy and his handling of TT, would it have been fair to dump Ted after a couple bad drafts considering the success he had in the first half of his tenure? Unless Ted was incapacitated by dementia would you be showing any loyalty to a guy who took the brunt for management during the Favre spectacle.

Should Murphy have moved on from Ted sooner? Probably, but I don't blame him so much considering all Ted did for GB during most of his time there.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:25 pm

So you're advocating that Thompson should have been removed following the NFC Championship game in 2016?

I don't get these people who think that because we lost the Championship game in 2014 and 2016 that we should get rid of the people who were responsible for getting us there, quite frankly.

Rodgers injury in 2017 exposed that our backup QB wasn't worth a squat, and that our defense wasn't very good. In 2018, we had some decent offense going in the early part of the season, but after Cobb and Allison went down with injuries we just weren't real good on offense....finishing in the average range in most categories.

It's 2019 now. We had a good 13 year run with McCarthy.....better than any other run in my lifetime except the 60s Packers. We did better with McCarthy that we did in the 13 years before he came, and a damn site better than the 13 years before that. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that over the next 13 years we won't do any better than we did the last 13.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:25 pm

So you're advocating that Thompson should have been removed following the NFC Championship game in 2016?

I don't get these people who think that because we lost the Championship game in 2014 and 2016 that we should get rid of the people who were responsible for getting us there, quite frankly.

Rodgers injury in 2017 exposed that our backup QB wasn't worth a squat, and that our defense wasn't very good. In 2018, we had some decent offense going in the early part of the season, but after Cobb and Allison went down with injuries we just weren't real good on offense....finishing in the average range in most categories.

It's 2019 now. We had a good 13 year run with McCarthy.....better than any other run in my lifetime except the 60s Packers. We did better with McCarthy that we did in the 13 years before he came, and a damn site better than the 13 years before that. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that over the next 13 years we won't do any better than we did the last 13.

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holmesmd's picture

April 04, 2019 at 09:55 pm

As a physician I posted on this site years ago that TT was obviously differing from CTE or some other dementia centered neurological deterioration. I got burned to the ground for being “disrespectful”. LoL. Well I’ve observed and diagnosed patients for 20+ yrs so if being correct is disrespectful, so be it. TT arguably should have been kindly and respectfully ushered from the GM position almost 5 years ago.How anyone couldn’t see that is beyond me. Good man and very good GM before the old squash went. Very sad. If it takes you 5 minutes to get out a few sentences in response to a question from the press, it’s probably safe to say that there is an issue? Let’s hope you get and sharper minds can get GB where they want to go

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:14 pm

I remember those "TT is God" people. They said "he drafted Rodgers" and we "won a Super Bowl" so he's a great GM.
"Draft & develop".
"Free agency is bad!"

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2019 at 02:57 pm

Excellent post. Not surprised you were skewered for broaching the subject.

I recall Oppy and others going nutso on me because I said similar things about Ted.

Apparently, they couldn't or didn't want to see. I never know for sure which it is ...willful ignorance or just obliviousness.

While you and I were dumbfounded over Ted not having his keys taking away the throng was mindlessly praising him as one of the best if not the best GM's in the game. It's so rich thinking back on it.

If Magic Mark couldn't figure out an employee belonged in a nursing home and not running the Packers how could anyone in their right mind believe Mark Murphy's self-interjection into football business is a good thing? It's a terrible thing. Hellur? Is anyone home, McFly?

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:04 pm

"Murphy is also the same one that sat by and watched Ted lose his edge via some type of physical degradation/health issue for years and didn't do a thing about it."

Until he did. It's a damned if you do/don't situation. If he flies in in 2017 everyone would piss and moan that they had just been to the NFC Championship game and Murphy is power hungry. If he waits until the end of 2018 the folks are bitching he waited.

For me, I have no reason to be pissed about what Murphy did or even McCarthy's "horrible" treatment. It's a business and everyone with eyes saw McCarthy was done. How can we blame Murphy and possibly Gute too, for wanting to see if Philbin can do the job.

Some WIAA ref working for a charity wage so kids can play basketball didn't deserve to be chased down and berated by Mac, yet he did it anyways. Sorry if I'm unmoved by his justice complex over making 7 million for a year of PTO.

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ricky's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:28 pm

No one thought Favre could be brought back under control. McCarthy managed to do it. At the time, MM was 42; Favre, was six years younger. So, MLF can't handle Rodgers? We'll see. It will be difficult, because if he does decide to call audibles, what will the coach do? Bench him?

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WisconsInExile's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:44 pm

Doesn’t necessarily have to bench him, though it’s possible if a game is out of hand in either direction (and we know Rodgers hates that). However, he could fine Rodgers, call him out (O_o), or make him write up a scouting report for the next opponent. You get the idea.

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Lare's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:37 pm

Nice post jjjb.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2019 at 03:01 pm

Magic Mark wasn't even aware. It's not as you characterize at all. Not a damned if you do/don't scenario at all...IF...and that's key...IF you were paying attention. Most were as asleep as Ted was. IF you'd been paying attention it should have happened years ago. IF you could ever admit being so wrong about your view of the Packers and realize how skewed you actually were from reality it would help. Instead in order to try and make sense of these harsh new realities foisted upon you in the Dunne piece you have to create a false narrative strawman and argue saying it was damned if you do/don't. No. Not even close. IF...

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Skip greenBayless's picture

April 05, 2019 at 04:49 pm

"And can ARod's ego be contained at this point? Or is he so insecure and vindictive that no one can do anything about it? This piece makes me very worried indeed."

Only what I've been saying for months now and getting killed for it. The answer is a clear NO Rodgers will not play second fiddle to any head coach especially a green inexperienced rookie. It's going to be a disaster. I've been screaming this for a long long time but nobody is willing to listen. Now some other people are finally coming out and saying it. God bless John T. Kirk for returning. Probably the top journalist on the internet at this point and right now his honest voice is desperately needed at this time. He sees what I see. Perhaps others should finally start paying attention to the Dash Riprocks, the Old Schools, the Taryns and John T. Kirks of the world instead of automatically hating them for saying something they don't want to hear.

Dash

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 04, 2019 at 09:13 pm

Lare,
Good stuff!

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:20 pm

Dash...

I had to comment on the greatest Packers article ever written.

These are the kinds of things the fringe of the fan base said for years but were vilified by the overwhelming faction that said things were good and we were in the playoffs every year so R E L A X.

Some of us saw the issues and knew Rodgers could NEVER respect MM who was coordinator of the last place offense in SF. The guy who didn't draft him after he put on his Niners tie for the Green Room.

We knew Ted was a drone and MM intellectually challenged.

We knew this organization was squandering Rodgers.

We knew there were major issues between HC and QB.

We knew Magic Mark is a corporate empty suit who couldn't fix a sandwich.

Read this piece. Celebrate a birthday while reading as it'll take you that long. Soak it in.

The hated faction of this fanbase was 100% correct all these years. It's correct now, too. Why? Because it doesn't try to impose an opinion by looking at playoff appearances and wrongly assuming that meant things were good.

Those who really watch and really question can celebrate this piece today by former Packers beat guy Ty Dunne.

It is a thing of beauty. The Packers were doomed and I guarantee you they'll continue being doomed. Matt Matt was one of the worst possible hires Magic Mark could've ever made.

This should be a wake up call for all the milquetoast fans that are fans just because. It was all there to see all these years and so many were so blind.

Dash, it's on guys like you and Spader to carry the torch.

Packernation should feel jolted today. It should feel betrayed. It should also apologize to the faction it mocked for over a decade who was merely right the entire time about this organization.

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fastmoving's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:01 pm

some strange stuff, even for a guy like Kirk.

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Lare's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:22 pm

Trolls will be trolls.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:39 pm

Truth, Lare. Truth.

Would love to go over this piece with a fine tooth comb with you. Let me know if you're willing.

It's so easy to type a line calling me a troll. So untrue. I was sick over the years watching this stuff. I posted about it here and other places.

Years of this kind of thing wore on me and when Magic Mark the one who is the worst of the ineffectual trio of McCarthy and TT took front and center it was too much for me.

This is validation. I was never wrong not that I needed this piece but I did for people like you who refused to see or would never admit the truths told in Dunne's piece.

My favorite thing in some of these comments is people calling this the past and those who are "still optimistic".

Why optimistic? The same guy who let it get broken beyond repair is now attempting to fix it. It's actually funny. LaFleur is the wrong type of coach for a guy like Rodgers. What respect do you think Rodgers will have for him over the respect he NEVER had for McCarthy? Both coordinated offenses that were dregs of the NFL. You don't think he noticed that with BOTH? You give an accomplished guy like 12 a guy who FAILED miserably as an OC who has ZERO presence. I mean, you guys are beyond optimists. That's things I don't even want to type.

8-8 is a great goal for any year in the LaFleur tenure. It'll be like the SB if he can get them there.

Instead of your same old one line act of disparagement how 'bout admitting the faction you mocked for years was right all along? Can you do such a thing? Easier to continue to pretend?

A glorious day thanks to a glorious piece. Thank you, Ty.

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JDK52's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:48 pm

Ah yes, this is how trolls behave. You're more pleased (calling this a "glorious day") being told you were "right" about awful things being "true" than if nothing had come out and things had just been fine with everyone.

The way you talk about this article that does nothing other than bash McCarthy, Rodgers, the organization, etc in glowing terms is really gross. That is what trolls do.

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Lare's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:08 pm

Not much to do in Minnesota this time of year.

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:15 pm

Remember, he claimed that he was switching to be a Browns fan. Now he is trolling back here because the Browns have nothing to write about since Jim Brown retired at the end of the '65 season. Thanks, Since '61

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:38 pm

So, anyone who questions anything is a troll? Jeff Wigand was a troll? You can't speak truth without being a troll?

What's truly gross is not knowing any of this was happening with as much attention and amount of time you waste in your life following the Packers. How could you follow this much and know so little? It has to be by willful ignorance. That is gross to me. Of course I love this piece. It is everything I've been saying for over 10 years. It is what people like you railed against when reading about it from guys like me. Who wouldn't enjoy that? You sure would if the opposite piece came out but it didn't because this one wasn't penned by a puff n fluff Packers writer or some huge fan of the team. No objectivity there. I love objectivity and truth. It's a HUGE win for both. The fact you hate that is gross. Again, you are free to live in the delusions of years past. You can brush off this piece all you'd like. I won't. I embrace it because it is a reflection of my body of work as a poster. That's validation. I'm happy. Thrilled.

This is what I've been saying for years. People like their ears tickled. You have relegated ANYONE who doesn't do such things to the realm of trolls.

I am very pleased because it is validation for people like me who spoke the truth. It's a triumph for truth. McCarthy was always stone stupid. Aaron was always off the charts arrogant. Ted was a disgrace. All those things were true for all those years. Now, those who don't like it say it's the past! LOL. The past. The same past they just two years ago pointed to time and time again with glee. That's the opposite of what you allege of me. You promote untruth. You promote peace based on fantasy.

Truth is a sword. It divides. It always has and always will. See your reaction for proof. Yes, I have gloated. Rightfully so.

Vision was 20/20 on this . Were your eyes even open?

I lambasted our pathetic media for their endless puff and fluff dumbing down this fan base. It's all true. A real piece of journalism comes out and the non-trolls go scattering with fingers in ears and blindfolds on. Don't need to tell you what happens when you do that.

Yes, Magic Mark inspired me to follow the Browns for this season. I always maintained I would return when he gets ousted. Of course, I'll keep tabs on the Packers...been doing it for nearly 40 years. Hard habit to break but MM, TT and now Magic Mark have broken me. While you celebrated and partied like it was 1999, I lamented and struggled with what I was witnessing. Trust me...it was very hard. I don't care if the Packers go 0-16 if the mindset is right. I'll joyfully return if/when they get a respectable guy back running the show who is out of the picture like Magic Mark should be. He's only in to try and grandstand and save his own skin. He should've been fired for this fiasco but instead he only grew in stature.

My love for the Packers was as strong as any of yours and I'd argue stronger because it was based on truth not fantasy. I see things as they are not how I wish for them to be and that's a hard way to live.

You are free to live in what you lived in for the last decade and never come out of it. That's your choice. I'm no troll. It's a total disgrace what happened at 1265...the thing is, I knew it when most of you were blissfully unaware. I guess trolls are just more in tune to reality.

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Dragon5's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:01 pm

Perception is one's reality.

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LeotisHarris's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:15 pm

My goodness, John. The hyperbole. The grandiosity. The ego. I agree, you are no troll, but you certainly seem to be a man who is "full of his own juice."

John, with your self-annointed all-knowing nature and "I told ya so" bluster, what is it humankind can do for you besides a simple apology? Certainly a scribe of your caliber, one whose deep dives into the inner workings of complex relationships in the NFL's inner sanctum, deserves exaltation. Would a statue be too little? Too much? Maybe a simple firm handshake or a hug? Some homemade bread and a warm cup of soup? Please, tell us, John, how can we ever repay your for your many gifts?

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 09:58 pm

No hyperbole. Point it out. Can you?

What I want is what I've always wanted. For people to wake up and see objectively.

Go back and read my old posts. You will see me address most if not all of the issues in the Dunne piece. I did it with rabid passion back then but, like now, the post are met with anger and disdain for me. Why? Because I'm right and that bothers you?

Was I wrong? No. I was right and it always feels good to be right. It never feels good being wrong and that's what you and countless others were over the years. When faced with being a man and admitting you were wrong you choose another option. More attack. More name calling. It's ironic in the bashing I've received today nobody has refuted what's actually been said. Just upset that I said it and the way you've heard it in your head. You don't play for the Packers and never will. You don't know these guys and they don't and won't ever care about you. You watch them on TV. It's a game. The levels of defense people will come to for this type of scenario is dizzying to me. I never had that hang up because it's beyond ridiculous. If that's how you wish to live go for it. Don't hate me for being right and telling you I was in one single thread where you spent a great deal of time and posts mocking me for being right over and over and over again.

Sorry, but what you believed was a lie and wrong for years. What you thought you knew and what you'd almost die to defend was a myth. I guess I'd be mad if there was someone holding up a mirror for me about how stupid I looked for over a decade. Again, instead of choosing to be a man and admitting you had it all wrong and simply saying...hey, you were right is something that will never happen.

I'm telling you right now that you're in for more "fun" from the Packers next season. Going to be interesting for you guys. You ain't gonna like it. Sure, tell me how I don't know and of your optimism. For your sake, I hope you're right but I doubt it.

You used hyperbole as deflection. Nice work. I don't think much of myself, I just know I pay attention. Nothing special. I'm just alarmed by how many don't do that and are blinded by fandom.

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:16 pm

I hear you

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 09:58 pm

No hyperbole. Point it out. Can you?

What I want is what I've always wanted. For people to wake up and see objectively.

Go back and read my old posts. You will see me address most if not all of the issues in the Dunne piece. I did it with rabid passion back then but, like now, the post are met with anger and disdain for me. Why? Because I'm right and that bothers you?

Was I wrong? No. I was right and it always feels good to be right. It never feels good being wrong and that's what you and countless others were over the years. When faced with being a man and admitting you were wrong you choose another option. More attack. More name calling. It's ironic in the bashing I've received today nobody has refuted what's actually been said. Just upset that I said it and the way you've heard it in your head. You don't play for the Packers and never will. You don't know these guys and they don't and won't ever care about you. You watch them on TV. It's a game. The levels of defense people will come to for this type of scenario is dizzying to me. I never had that hang up because it's beyond ridiculous. If that's how you wish to live go for it. Don't hate me for being right and telling you I was in one single thread where you spent a great deal of time and posts mocking me for being right over and over and over again.

Sorry, but what you believed was a lie and wrong for years. What you thought you knew and what you'd almost die to defend was a myth. I guess I'd be mad if there was someone holding up a mirror for me about how stupid I looked for over a decade. Again, instead of choosing to be a man and admitting you had it all wrong and simply saying...hey, you were right is something that will never happen.

I'm telling you right now that you're in for more "fun" from the Packers next season. Going to be interesting for you guys. You ain't gonna like it. Sure, tell me how I don't know and of your optimism. For your sake, I hope you're right but I doubt it.

You used hyperbole as deflection. Nice work. I don't think much of myself, I just know I pay attention. Nothing special. I'm just alarmed by how many don't do that and are blinded by fandom.

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porupack's picture

April 05, 2019 at 06:45 am

Hey, LeotisHarris, That's pretty funny.
I'll take that soup and bread. Do I need to gloat to get it, or save the long posts and just make a deal?
(I couldn't even read those long posts).

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Pizzadoc's picture

April 07, 2019 at 05:32 pm

I was going to say something shitty about JK and Dash, but this is much better. BURN

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:03 pm

They can't handle the truth. Never did, never will handle the fact the turning point at Seattle set the dial in the direction of the South Pole. Murphy played a part in the contract extensions in2015 etc. Russ von lowball penned the Cobb and Perry deals for Ted while he point blank told Micah Hyde he wasn't worth nickles on the dollar, same for Hayward. It always feels comfy in the small town atmoshere of Green Bay but a billion dollar operation getting its cues from Park Avenue runs the narrative. The Norbertine Fathers are out of the picture, no more Team Band or shaply Cheerleaders, we'll search your bag for sandwiches and other contraband.
The point being,if you want to win the Big Game keep the pressure on the Fans to keep the pressure on management to perform. The 2016 NFC was a farce. One exceptional play by #12 got theball to Cook and Crosby sent it home or Dallas plays the Dirty Birds. To reward Cook for his efforts, they gave him a low-ball offer and he went on to Oakland.
There is still plenty of sin to go around Packertown to keep the blogs busy. It appears the message has been noted, Gutekunst may get a contender in place sooner than later. He has set a course, can he maintain?

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Dusty's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:29 pm

A lot of people, here too I'm sure, have heard rumblings along today's lines over the last few years. Some choose to accept it, some stick their heads in the sand.
But... tomorrow we will still be Packers fans, and therein lies the difference.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 11:52 pm

I'm still a Packers fan. Cleveland is really Green Bay South.

The "A" team of the Packers org is in Cleveland. The "B" team is in Green Bay. I don't know how anyone could argue against that.

For those who want to say Dorsey was set up well in Cleveland... He was. However, many were set up in Cleveland and failed over and over. Dorsey has turned the Browns from a joke to talk of a SB winning team in one season. That's truly incredible.

Meanwhile, in B team Green Bay, Magic Mark has managed to destroy the Packers in one year as Jerry Jones. .

Both Dorsey and Magic Mark are just getting started. We haven't seen the best of the Browns yet...the top is far off. We've yet to see the bottom of the Packers and there's a long way down still to go. My only reservation is Pettine is there. I love that guy. He's the only hope in that entire organization.

Matt LaFleur is like an intern more than a HC. He seems like a really nice guy. He really does. He does not seem like a head football coach...not even at the HS level. Never seen a HC with less presence...ever. He comes across as extremely weak. If you think Aaron Rodgers is going to respond to a guy with poor pedigree and miserable failure in Tennessee I have no idea other than wishes and prayers you're hanging your hat on.

No other team was interested in Matt LaFleur. He's the equivalent of a scrub UDFA Ted used to bring in that no one else wanted except this guy is the freaking HC of the Green Bay Packers. Yikes.

I know for you the mantra is....give the guy a chance...nobody knows...etc. I get it. You have to tell yourself that. I don't. I tell myself what I actually see not what I wish to be.

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Dusty's picture

April 05, 2019 at 01:48 am

Well JK, you got me. I am going to give MLF a chance, as I don't have a choice. No matter how much I'd like to, I don't have a say in the Packers front office.~ I'm just a fan.
I happen to like your point of view a lot of the time and used to enjoy reading your thoughts when you were a frequent contributor, to a certain extent. I also don't necessarily disagree with you about much of this either.
What I can't tolerate is talk of going to support another team. That's just beyond the pale. Like I said, I don't have a choice. Take care.
Go Pack Go!!

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porupack's picture

April 05, 2019 at 06:59 am

I simply don't respect people who judge, condemn and criticize potential before it has even a chance to be tried. You disregard potential based on such superficial impressions, that you list; 'weak', 'presence'. Lot of young and talented people flourish where there is fertile ground. For the naysayers, doubters, and those who judge before anything was even done.....disgust. Go read some Zig Ziglar motivational books, and get a tuneup for whatever is your "with poor pedigree and miserable failure in your mental Tennessee" I have no idea other than wishes and prayers you're hanging your hat on.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2019 at 07:18 am

Superficial? Have you been paying attention to any of what created this mess in Green Bay?

You don't insert a WEAK coach who shocked the Titans when the Packers named him HC. They didn't get it. It's not that they wanted him to stay...he just isn't HC material.

Go read Charles Robinson's piece this AM. He absolutely passive aggressively (very Rodgers like) destroys Magic Mark. It's another beautiful piece.

The leadership void is how this ever happened in the first place. That void is glaring with a guy like Magic Mark at the top. You don't get it.

How can you not see the dearth of real men in Green Bay? Pettine is the ONLY one. Brian is incredibly weak. Murphy is beyond fraudulent and now there's an even weaker HC than the overmatched MM in Packerland.

Read the Robinson piece. You need to.

There's nothing superficial about anything I said over the years nor in this thread. You can choose not to listen, again, but like always you'll see in time and have a different opinion years later.

Get ahead of the curve for once. It's all right there. Don't be one of those who looks back with clarity saying we should've seen this coming. See it now. This is a mess that is only going to get worse.

Do you think Rodgers is going to brush this off as easily as you have? Oh my...again, you don't pay attention if you think he will. He won't. Mr. Sensitive has been reamed publicly. He has one of the weakest men possible coaching him now. Throw in Luke freaking Getsy... poor Aaron. He has a neophyte operation surrounding his ending years with a fake Jerry Jones at the top. You haven't begun to see the full effects of the hard times. By all means, focus on the draft or whatever but in the end there's a festering mess left at 1265 that nobody there has the capability of fixing. You'll see in time.

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porupack's picture

April 05, 2019 at 09:08 am

diarrhea of the mind, and unfortunately your posts are the output. Stinks.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2019 at 03:09 pm

Truth is never easy when you've believed lies for so long.

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Skip greenBayless's picture

April 05, 2019 at 04:58 pm

Porupack is still holding out for hope in the Mueller report.

Dash

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wildbill's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:02 pm

Murphy was very successful as an NFL player so I think he can, in fact, “fix a sandwhich”

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NJMagic's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:14 pm

I think most of us are "over" analyzing past dysfunction.

In response to T.B's analysis, though- i will say, on behalf of the fans, most of us don't disregard all negative quotes about our *tempermental* but *talented* QB. We just disregard absurd quotes from receiving TE about trust issues such as "if you don't run the right route in practice, Aaron won't throw you the ball in the game."

When you have a QB like Rodgers you take the good with the bad and work with what you have. The team clearly stopped doing that years ago.

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Samson's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:17 pm

"this is a team that will be refreshed and rejuvenated"

Guess what --- so are most of the fans. -- This is a new day & a new regime. -- Can't help but feel optimism going into season 2019.

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RCPackerFan's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:45 pm

Who are you and what did you do with Samson. :)

Welcome to the optimistic side. ;)

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Bearmeat's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:52 pm

Get cher tinfoil hats out! ;P

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RCPackerFan's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:55 pm

Nevahhh!!!

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Samson's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:11 pm

RC
I kinda figured you never really understood me. -- TT's gone. -- MM's gone. -- That's all I've ever wanted (at least since 2015). -- I don't see you apologizing for either TT or MM anymore. -- I say to you------
Welcome to the light.
This is a new day & a new regime.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:42 pm

The lynch pin is still here. Murphy is worse than both combined. It's not a new era. Same era with a ridiculous hire at HC but he is new as is Brian. One year in and BG isn't setting the world on fire. Yes, he needs time but early returns aren't fantastic. His FA class was beyond poor.

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Skip greenBayless's picture

April 05, 2019 at 05:03 pm

19 dislikes for this? lol Are you kidding me? What did Kirk say that was not correct? smh

Dash

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Community Guy's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:18 pm

Thanks Tim for correcting the trend to dump stories if journalists use unnamed sources. there are valid reasons to keep sources confidential.

i hope that the folks still at 1265 Lombardi take this piece with the motivation to improve on their weaknesses. it has to be about the team.

there is a lot of balancing that needs to be done. i hope that the young receivers don't get shoved under the bus in Green Bay.. there is a lot of potential there.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:15 am

Nah, unnamed source stories should always be taken with a grain of salt, and even outright not believed. Certainly, using unnamed sources at times is a necessary evil.

The reputation and track record of the author publishing a story based on unnamed sources is everything.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:40 am

Unnamed sources are far more likely to be honest than named sources. That's indisputable. There are many on the record people lying for a living. Mark Murphy is as dishonest as they get and he's right out there straight lying in press conferences or admitting to it.

I worked in media. The best place to find truth is in unnamed sources/ones that don't want to be on record. MM was on the record in his rebuttal of the massage snippet. He's on the record but is he more likely to be honest because he is? No. He has an agenda not to admit it. He looks really, really bad. Few have the character to admit their failings.

As for my belief, I don't have any idea whether that's true or not and don't care. He was a bad hire and an intellectual inferior to the QB and should've never been here in the first place.

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RCPackerFan's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:20 pm

"On unnamed sources"

While we shouldn't dismiss the article because the sources are unnamed, we do have to sort of take what they are saying with a grain of salt. We don't know these peoples intentions. Do they have an axe to grind? Are they bitter with the way they left GB? We really don't know. We don't know the intent of these people.

We have heard from Jennings and Finley a ton. They were quoted a ton in this article. Well are these people more like them?

I do believe that everything that was in the article was said by these sources. I just don't know if what was said was skewed with these peoples opinions.

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ShanghaiKid's picture

April 04, 2019 at 09:52 pm

I’d be willing to bet the farm that one of the “unnamed sources” was Winston Moss.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:32 am

There are pieces that are on the record. AR clearly can be seen saying F****** stupid call. MM can clearly be seen saying Just throw the D*** ball. Marcedes is on the record as to AR/MM. Bakh is on the record as to MM and perhaps the organization, not AR. Sitton and Lang are on record as to MM.

Articles that have a strong point of view get reactions. There is something there, but how much is not clear. Players, coaches and front office personnel who are still Packers tend to get a pass. At least until they leave.

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CAG123's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:23 pm

I mean who the hell cares anymore MM is gone now it’s a new era we’re all looking towards the future. I mean I personally wasn’t interested in what started the split to begin with sometimes a change is needed and that’s all I chalked it up to.

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Dragon5's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:24 pm

WOW. My condolences to all GBP sports writers not named Tyler Dunne. This is Pulitzer material. FINALLY something of intrinsic value and not the typical rah-rah we're great-he's great BULLSH*T we've been relegated to ponder. Refreshing as it is revealing.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:49 pm

Amen. This is exactly the piece we don't get anymore now that McGinn is gone.

Truth is often ugly. When it tickles your ears it's rarely true.

An absolute thing of beauty that is guaranteed to grate those who are used to Packers.com type articles about their team.

This article literally brings me joy because it's validation of all the things people like myself have posted about for over a decade on Packers forums yet got railed for doing so.

Your thumbs downs will be huge but it's only because you're right. Fake news sells in Green Bay. Truth doesn't.

You read Demovsky and you're left with so many questions. This answered many. I still want to know how/why this org let MM back after coldly dismissing him to speak to the team and into Lambeau at night with his cellphone.

If you read this and feel optimism going forward you're doing it wrong as to seeing clearly. It's that same not seeing clearly that made you think things were okay all those years. They weren't....and I'll guarantee they aren't right now despite those trying to quickly brush this off as the past. Yup..it's the past you once used to hail. Look at all those playoff appearances as you marveled. Now, it's...that was the past! Why? You don't like the truth. Better to pretend things were great when they weren't and never were under MM and TT. Now, it's Magic Mark and he's worse than both combined. He hired LaFleur. Good luck. What an embarrassment.

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fastmoving's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:20 pm

your so brave and true. King Kirk.
funny that you are so high on yourself. but what should you do, when nobody else thinks you are any smart.
no idea how many words of sensless stuff you wrote the last decade? you wont know it, but we won the SB right in that time span.

its all about winning football games, not about gossip and alternative facts

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:45 pm

No. Wrong. It's about RINGS. Rings that were left on the table.

Let me ask...Did you read every word of this piece or do you just comment?

That article backed up all the things I said over the years. Not just me. Many of us in the "fringe faction".

You can hate me all you'd like. Not getting me down today. This is a day of joy. Packers org finally exposed as the mess it was. It's STILL a mess. Magic Mark is still here. You'll see just like you did today when this piece rolled out.

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Demon's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:05 pm

Did anyone notice that Dash hasnt been here responding to every post since kirk reappeared?

I have a hot tip for you john, Bigfoot was sighted at a trailer park in Des Moines. Best go get your camera.

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Skip greenBayless's picture

April 05, 2019 at 05:17 pm

Why would I respond to every post? I've never done that before so why would I start now. Kirk is doing a fantastic job at following up on people's comments. This article on Rodgers totally vindicates what Kirk and I have been saying so I came out for a rare appearance like Kirk did. You should be commending Kirk and treating him with the respect he deserves. Instead you mock. Try something new WT.

Dash

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Dragon5's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:03 pm

I'll elaborate on further truths not mentioned in the article...

Lambeau mystique has been gone for years and a good deal of it has been ignoring & whiffing on defensive talent as that's when fans are called upon the most to engage--during defensive series.

The fan experience has morphed from tailgating & pure football to commercial real estate development. Tailgate bonding has fallen victim to appeasing corporate brand profiteering. I went to the NYG game a couple years ago and was shocked to see how tailgating has been reduced to one side of the stadium...my last game prior to that was in 1995. All Packer fans seek is genuine good times and football and instead we're being corporate farmed and wallets slaughtered. God Bless the Brewers for being steadfast with their tailgating & food policy directives.

Rodgers is now squarely under the microscope...if his play doesn't do the talking from here on out, you can bet the fan boos will. Personally I believe he'll rebound in a big way, but the demons on his shoulder are only a whisper away...karma's a b*tch.

As a franchise, an article of this magnitude is a game-changer. Puke it all out so the healing process can begin, but Rodgers inability to deal with his own baggage ON & OFF the field is dead-weight that can obstruct building team chemistry necessary to compete at a championship level. This team needs locker room LEADERS in a major way...gone is "Aaron Rodgers and the Packers." From here on out to hell with that media narrative; It should be the "Green Bay Packers" or we likely continue recent tradition: pathetic.

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Dragon5's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:24 pm

WOW. My condolences to all GBP sports writers not named Tyler Dunne. This is Pulitzer material. FINALLY something of intrinsic value and not the typical rah-rah we're great-he's great BULLSH*T we've been relegated to ponder. Refreshing as it is revealing.

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NJMagic's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:31 pm

Disagree- as TB comments, very little new here (well, except for the massages). Most of this has been VERY well characterized over the years including Aaron's boorish behavior, MM frustration, lack of communication, and generally just sad dysfunction, etc.

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NJMagic's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:37 pm

Disagree- as TB comments, very little new here (well, except for the massages). Most of this has been VERY well characterized over the years including Aaron's boorish behavior, MM frustration, lack of communication, and generally just sad dysfunction, etc.

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packerbackerjim's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:40 pm

What is apparent to me is the failure to establish team chemistry and have a clear understanding of organizational behavior and psychology. From The BOD down to ball boys there is a profound need to hold each other accountable.

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:57 pm

The Dunne article could be a case study on poor communication. The issues between Rodgers and MM should have been nipped in the bud years ago. All that was needed was for them to sit down and clear the air before things got out of control which they obviously did.

Allowing this situation to go on and fester as it did was a major failure by both TT and Murphy. One of both of them should have stepped in and been a mediator. This is management 101.

One major point which Dunne ignores is the premature passing of MMs brother in 2015. We'll never know the impact this loss had on MM but he was never the same coach and based on his actions (missing meetings) and his wife's comments after he was fired, sound like a man suffering from depression and getting worse.

This article also highlights how the Packers success diminished any sense of urgency for management and created an entitlement attitude among management, coaches and players.

Bottom line, the iceberg was ahead but no one was steering the ship. Now we have a weak roster and we're still depending on Rodgers to bail out the ship. I just hope that Rodgers and MLF can start with a clean slate and they keep it that way with open, honest and timely communication. It's time to move forward and focus on the 2019 season. Thanks, Since '61

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Mojo's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:30 pm

I'm not sure it's just poor communication that's at fault here.

If it's true that Rodgers has resented MM because McCarthy favored Alex Smith in the draft and carried that feeling throughout, well then that's just weird. I mean psychotic weird. Don't know what kind of communication would cure that. Plus ARod's cutting off his entire family. Weird. Plus the treatment of Jeff Janis. Ugh.

I just get the feeling you're not supposed to ever disagree with him or expect the stink-eye and a lifetime of ARod pique.

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:53 pm

Agree Mojo there is probably more than just communications involved but they are supposed to be professionals. Professionals find a way to work together, get through their personal BS, and strive for common goals.

Neither Lombardi nor Holmgren would let the bad blood or undercurrents go on. We all know about Holmgren's "No more rocket balls.". I'm sure that wasn't the only time Holmgren made his thoughts clear to Favre.

IMO MM should have taken the lead and cleared up his Alex Smith decision during his first discussion with Rodgers in Green Bay. Ultimately it was the SF GM call anyway. Either way it should have been handled.

Professionals focus on results and what they can do with what they have not what might have been or what was done in the past that can't be changed. We'll never know if the Packers would have been anymore successful without a rift between Rodgers and MM. They still had a progressively declining roster after 2011 thanks to TT. Murphy was still no where to be found until 2017. Move on and move forward. Thanks, Since '61

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WisconsInExile's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:17 am

This is another area where veterans can show leadership. If all the receivers get together and for one practice all run half-speed while Janis (or whomever) runs full-speed, Rodgers will get the message.

And saying it’s psychotic isn’t helpful, and certainly is not true. I find his feelings understandable. Neither you nor I have been humiliated as a young man *live* on national TV on one of the biggest days in US sports broadcasting. His slide from the top 10 was *the* story of the first round that year, and the camera was literally in his face constantly.

In your early 20’s, you’re still finding your place, your identity, in the adult world. Aaron Rodgers was no exception. Going through something like that, when expectations had been so high, is a big personal and emotional setback. And for your hometown team, the one you grew up with, to be the one to break your heart is even more devastating at that age.

And for Mike McCarthy—a guy who coached your home team’s HOF QB who you idolized growing up—to be a key player in denying you your ultimate dream just when it was so close—well that’s a hard thing to swallow for almost anybody.

There was only one way this should play out. As the 42 year old man, McCarthy had the one and only card to play: sincere, profound, apology—more than once. Why McCarthy and not Rodgers? Because McCarthy, at age 42, should know better, and should be confident enough in his own identity to take the first step towards reconciliation, and towards helping a young man heal.

He needed to *show* Aaron that he understood the role he played in this bitter event in Aaron’s life and he needed to convince Aaron of his contrition. He probably also needed to convince Montana to come sing Happy Birthday to Aaron in person. :-P

As for people criticizing Aaron’s family relationship, that’s uncalled for. We know nothing about what has been said, or not, between him and his family. The sports and entertainment worlds are filled with awful stories about awful parents and siblings of big stars. Just because they are blood doesn’t mean we can assume they are supportive and positive participants in his life.

Whether it’s money, control, local fame, or worse, parents and siblings of stars all too commonly try to extract some personal advantage. We have no idea if that happened here, and it’s none of our business—even if it impacts him on the field in any way. A man McCarthy’s age should know that you don’t inject yourself into that. You build a relationship around making Aaron the hero, and one built on open and direct communication, where a what you see is what you get.

You create a dynamic that makes it clear: you are not one of those people looking to take credit for his glory. You show that young man, directly, what it looks like to build your teammates up and elevate them in the hopes that he models that in his interactions with others.

I empathize with Aaron, and the path he’s followed. A bright, proud, introverted underdog, he was always going to need help finding the right path. Each one of those things will attract haters. Piling a very public embarrassment in front of his idols and peers on top of all that—along with the normal challenges someone who is barely old enough to buy beer faces, well, it means being a good football coach won’t be enough.

In a way, I feel bad for McCarthy. He ended up in a dream situation for a head coach, but one that required him to skillfully overcome a problem his upbringing and life experience left him unprepared to handle. That need to project that “Pittsburgh tough guy” persona, to be nobody’s underdog, to not back down, to not get shown up or publicly embarrassed, was McCarthy’s Achilles heel. Ironically, it’s what made him most like Aaron, and should have made him the best suited to make Aaron the undisputed Greatest of All Time.

I’m surprised to hear myself say this, but I think in a perfect world, Andy Reid might have been the perfect coach for #12. Let’s hope MLF takes that crown for himself.

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LarryPennell's picture

April 05, 2019 at 06:13 pm

That’s a refreshing take on the situation. One of the most well thought out comments I’ve seen. Well done!

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Johnblood27's picture

April 06, 2019 at 12:24 am

what a refreshing break from the dash-kirk-dragon same idiot different name garbage spew.

Very well done exile.

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Barazinho's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:10 pm

Good point 61 - somebody else made a comment a while back about his brother's passing, combined with the NFCCG meltdown, changing McCarthy. His wife's comments seem to corroborate that. If we take some of the other facts from this article as true, you can imagine how much worse their strained relationship got after McCarthy truly ran out of gas in the last couple of years - we all saw it on the field.

I also remember Boyle's recent comments about how he and Kizer would shuttle play info between Rodgers and McCarthy during games this year - it was clear evidence that the rift wasn't a little thing. It's too bad they won that Jets game - at least we would have gotten a top 10 pick as a result of all this dysfunction.

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D.D.Driver's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:46 pm

"All that was needed was for them to sit down and clear the air before things got out of control which they obviously did."

LOL. Is that "all" that was needed? Sounds super easy. You should let Rodgers family know that "all" they need to do is sit down and clear the air. So simple.

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:04 pm

Family matters are a totally different dynamic. I was commenting on MM and Rodgers working together as professionals. I posted that they should have handled their petty differences up front. If they didn’t do it TT and/or Murphy should have stepped in.

I’ve dealt with much bigger issues than what MM and Rodgers started with. Ignoring the core issues just makes everything worse as the article points out.

It’s over now but it was unnecessary and regrettable. Time to move on. Thanks, Since ‘61

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D.D.Driver's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:26 pm

Professionals? Would a professional ostracize a young collegue for following the company chain of command? There is nothing about this that is normal or in anyway analogous to workplace conflict that you have experienced. Comparing it to your own work experience is beyond silly and naive.

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D.D.Driver's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:26 pm

Professionals? Would a professional ostracize a young collegue for following the company chain of command? There is nothing about this that is normal or in anyway analogous to workplace conflict that you have experienced. Comparing it to your own work experience is beyond silly and naive.

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RCPackerFan's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:44 pm

"On Aaron Rodgers"

A lot of what was said isn't anything new that we didn't know or hear about Rodgers.
I will say though that some things sound more concerning then what we already knew. Like Rodgers forcing his WR's to run different routes from what the coaches told them to run, and if they didn't listen to him he wouldn't throw them the ball.

If that is true, that isn't a good look at all for him.

A lot of talk about him not liking McCarthy and how it basically started the day he got there. While I think some of its true I don't know if I entirely believe that. I think there were some issues, but I don't the issues really started until 2012ish and later. The last couple of years sounds like it really got bad which we could see that.

"On Mike McCarthy"
Speaking of McCarthy, the talks about him missing meetings and whatnot, are surprising.

Now looking back when people were talking about accountability and whatnot after McCarthy was let go, things make a little more sense.

I don't believe all the blame can be placed on Rodgers, or McCarthy, or even Thompson. It was definitely everyone involved.

Something that I would like to know though, is where was Murphy during all of this? He finally stepped in last year, but it sounds like things were a mess way before this year. So why did it take him this long to get involved?

As far as moving forward.
I share the same blind optimism.

I truly believe this year for sure will be a lot better. Rodgers will be out to prove something. We think he had a chip on his shoulder before. I guarantee he has a huge one now.
Also if the relationship and partnership between he and McCarthy was that bad, getting a new coach in should be a good change!
Hopefully the coaches around Rodgers will help him get back to his greatness!

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Barazinho's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:12 pm

It's hard to see how things could get any worse, and that alone is reason for optimism.

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buddrow53's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:24 pm

Something that I would like to know though, is where was Murphy during all of this? He finally stepped in last year, but it sounds like things were a mess way before this year. So why did it take him this long to get involved?

My thoughts to a T. I think Rodgers was trying to hold players accountable
maybe because some coaches or head coach would not.

Murphy finally got the accountable message light to glow and started making changes. Finally, he needed a sharp TT to make the change and that didn't happen that's on Murphy.
But I think this is a win win for everyone, all players know we better step it up or we will be gone, new coach and gm new energy.
So thanks Mark Murphy for growing some nads.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:05 pm

He didn't grow nads...he stopped being an absentee landlord when they were about to take away his building. The same guy who let the building nearly collapse due to willful neglect is now given kudos for having nads?

In 10 more years you'll see Mark Murphy as the major disgrace he really is. Today, you won't because you hold out hope that he will fix this. It's only when it doesn't and this team is below .500 with a new HC and new GM and Aaron Rodgers that he will finally be fingered as he should be.

Magic Mark has chosen to do exactly what this piece says Rodgers does. Take no responsibility and bus others. I have followed this team for 40 years and never disliked anyone at 1265 more than him. I couldn't stand Ted or McCarthy but Murphy is in a different universe of awful. He's a terrible guy on top of being terrible for this organization as a football guy.

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buddrow53's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:47 pm

During Murphy reign we have had a pretty decent run. It seems to me that a lot of the heartbreaks came due to a few plays per game. Almost fluke plays. It always seemed we were just so close. It did not happen but so damn close.
Why panic at that time ? Draft the players that could help and move on.
Murphy waited too long on TT a lot of companies do the same thing.
McCarthy waited too long on Capers and Zook.
A bad draft 2015 blind loyalties a hurt hof QB and here we are.
He pulled the trigger that is all that matters now.
I like what he has done with the GM HC and I love Pettine.
This has been the best off season that I can ever remember and I am 65.
Never jumped off the Pack wagon.
Nor the Yankee wagon back in the 60s

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Adorabelle's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:00 am

I had a similar opinion when I read the article. The "revelations" of the article regarding the state of the offense under Mr. McCarthy were the sort of thing that was being joked about for years. Even the Bleacher Report cartoon "Gridiron Heights" had a shot of a bewildered Coach McCarthy watching Kansas City and the Rams play and exclaiming "they're so innovative" - so the word was out on the stale quality of the Packer offense for a while. As a coach he was unwilling or unable to make changes to his offense over the years.

The part I had my wonderings about on Mr. Rodgers was that he had a dislike for the coach from the time he was hired. That really seems to minimize the team performance from 2010 to 2014 where the assistant coaches son being found dead the week of the playoff game and an epic 3 minute collapse had more impact on why the team did not make 3 Super Bowls in 5 years than any team friction did.

In 2017 we saw what the Packer team offense looked like if it did not have someone as good as Aaron Rodgers running it. In 2018 we saw that not even the aforementioned could keep the team afloat as assembled. Change was needed. But to say we should have seen this change and done it in 2014 is using a lot of rear view driving.

The other stuff about Mr. Rodgers personality also seems not to be anything new. Boards such as this has had fodder of how he has his favorites and doesn't throw to the ones he doesn't like for years. If that is his nature and he buries his feelings and doesn't talk - well this seems to go right back to coaching and that he needs someone to be his mentor or to kick him in the ass. Or both.

When Brett Favre was confronted with roster problems he was able to shepherd a team that had a near 1900 yard rusher and no receiver over 750 yards receiving. Could Mr. Rodgers do that? We will probably never see but it is interesting to consider. What changes will a new coach mean to a Quarterback, who according to this article, has been running his own offense for years?

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ottscay's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:46 pm

Aren't the "unnamed personel men who worked in GB" likely to be Wolf, McKenzie, and/or Highsmith?

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Bearmeat's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:59 pm

Yep.

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stockholder's picture

April 04, 2019 at 02:58 pm

I think a lot of people just need to get real. If your coach sees you not having that MVP year. Doesn't have his mind on winning. ( AS we all did) What scheme are you going to come up with, with a spoiled MVP QB? ( After that extension!!! ) Bench Him for words per rift? We all saw A-Rod skills regress. No longer is he the Top QB in the League. What could MM possible say to A-Rod? (Without making matters worse?) Especially when he's trying to put the blame on others for his play? Union players don't attack each other. This team got use to losing. And nothing was going to change their direction until they got sick of Losing. MM lost control when he wouldn't criticize Rodgers. And he sure the hell couldn't bench him. And Arron knew it.

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Bearmeat's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:00 pm

I think the physical skills are still about 90 to 95% there. It's the mental stuff that tanked the year.

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stockholder's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:51 pm

When a QB won't join in a win celebration. Cover-up.

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AndyQ's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:19 pm

i can absolutely dismiss anything Jennings and Finley say as garbage intended to keep themselves relevant tyvm

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Mojo's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:31 pm

What about Ryan Grant?

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sonomaca's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:34 pm

Can someone explain why you’d schedule a message during important team meetings? That seems rather deliberate. Oh, and how do you even massage a roly-poly like McCarthy?

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PAPackerbacker's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:37 pm

What happened in the past belongs in the past. It's time to look ahead and focus on the future.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:49 pm

Yup...just like playoff appearances and SB wins.

Those are the past. Never speak of them again.

Focus on now. This is a 6-9-1 team with Mark Murphy at the helm. It gave the largest contract in NFL history when it didn't need to to the most egomaniacal person in the league.

New HC who failed and has never been a HC hand picked by Magic Mark who was tired of looking and settled on this zero presence failure of an OC.

What could go wrong?

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Demon's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:15 pm

These are the kind of comments that has made Dash call you a legend? Wow he is easily influenced isnt he?

Shouldnt we at least give the new regeim a chance before we call them a failure?

Dash and you are really the same person, right? Why else would he kiss your ass on every one of his posts?

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Samson's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:41 pm

Tornado
Dash & Kirk are most likely one & the same person --- in fact, Dash has many pseudo Ids he uses here & many different places on the web. --- He's a sad person who needs better medication (or maybe less of it).

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Mojo's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:51 pm

I get the feeling if you were to pinch either Kirk or Dragon5, Dash would yell "ouch".

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:07 pm

I wonder how many people are in there with Dash, John Kirk, TEd Thompson wins, TT Twits etc.

I try not to interact with anyone that has more than 2 people inside their heads or their butts. Thanks, Since ‘61

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:11 pm

It's little wonder why you type such things.

Nobody is me and I'm nobody else. I'm not a Vikings fan. I'm not a troll.

Just a long suffering fan who finally got tired of being cheated on. There is a limit to everything. Magic Mark is as detestable they've ever been at 1265. Dishonorable guy through and through. I can't support his Jerry Jones routine. Interesting old Ty Dunne used that of Magic Mark. I was doing that long ago.

Hey, Maybe....I'm Ty Dunne? About as much chance of that as me being Dash or whomever else you accuse me of being.

What you should be doing is rethinking many of your wrongly held beliefs over the years but you won't. That's why you are as you are today.

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porupack's picture

April 05, 2019 at 03:10 pm

Lost all respect for your posts. I read the first couple words. Then....eh...move on.
Wait, what's that you said above about 20 times now?

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2019 at 03:27 pm

Needs to be a thousand times to counteract the misinformation and incoherent rah rah thoughts posted here.

You don't respect my posts? Stunning.

How do you form your opinions on the Packers? I can pretty much tell by reading someone's posting style but I haven't read enough of yours to form a strong theory on that.

The fact you don't respect my posts is a clue that you form your opinions by reading/listening to Packers-centric media.

Branch out and listen to national voices who get more scoops and better ones than the guys who actually cover this team every day. You're listening to the wrong voices I assure you.

and...for the love of... use your own eyes and mind. See clearly. Not through anyone's lens.

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LarryPennell's picture

April 05, 2019 at 08:29 pm

John, Cleveland needs you back. You seem to thrive off of negativity and being miserable.

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John Kirk's picture

April 08, 2019 at 01:23 am

No, Larry. If I thrived off negativity I'd still be a Packers fan. Cleveland has more buzz around them than any team in the NFL. It's all the things it is for most of you guys but it's based in logic not fantasy.

Hottest young player in the game paired with the most likable HC in the NFL in quite awhile. Numerous primetime appearances coming.

OBJ... Hunt added to a team inclining hard.

Packers in a quagmire of drama and dysfunction with a QB a game over .500 in his last 4 seasons who is paid so much the team around him suffers unlike Brady's who puts team first.

I like positive. That's why it's impossible to be a Green Bay fan UNLESS you delude yourself and I'm getting too old for that make believe stuff anymore.

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Demon's picture

April 04, 2019 at 03:40 pm

I cant say I disagree with AR taking more control of the offense. Anyone here ever work with a boss who was incompetent? I have, its not a good situation. You either do as the boss instructs and sink, or do what you feel is better/right and hope for the best.

Maybe AR isn't the best leader so what!! If the upper brass would have done even an average job with AR's talent the Rogers years would have been legendary.

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stockholder's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:58 pm

The brain Farts were as bad as the smell from Gary Indiana. A-Rod's No Choir boy here.

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jh9's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:03 pm

From what I've seen and read over the years, this article rings true.

With Aaron Rodgers, we should have won multiple Super Bowls by now. What we witnessed since 2010 has been an organizational failure. Mark Murphy... I'm calling you out. Complacency ruled Green Bay. There was no urgency to win another Super Bowl. No one was held accountable.

And the media covering the Packers has to share in part of the blame. They've always been too worshipful to ask the tough questions. If the Packers played in New York or Los Angeles or any major city, Ted Thompson would never have been able to hide in his office. Mike McCarthy would never have gotten away with post-game press conference excuses like "Our pad level was too high."

All we as Packers fans can do now is hope Matt LaFleur and BG can right the ship quickly and win at least one more Lombardi Trophy while we still have Aaron Rodgers.

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Lare's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:51 pm

For this article to ring true, I keep coming back to the same question. If Rodgers was so disgusted and upset playing on a team run by Thompson & McCarthy, why did he re-sign multiple contracts here? He could have gotten just as much money playing almost anywhere else and probably have a better chance of winning more Super Bowls.

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jh9's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:19 pm

AR was under Packers' control for two more years. He knew how easily he was hurt in 2017. When the contract extension was offered, the question to AR (and his agent): Was he willing to risk another injury in the next two years and lose his current monetary value?

Rodgers made his decision not because he believed in MM or the organization. He signed his contract extension when he did to get the maximum money.

No one should kid themselves. It was a business decision.

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Lare's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:44 pm

You’re only talking about the most recent contract extension, Rodgers signed two more before this in 2008 and 2013.

If Rodgers really hated McCarthy from the start, why keep re-signing to play for him?

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jh9's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:22 pm

You and I are fans. We can only look at the situation from the outside. From what I saw, I think the turning point was the loss to Seattle in the NFCCG in January 2015. During the 2015 season is when we saw AR throw down his IPad (or Surface pad) on the sidelines. Halfway through that season it looked like AR forgot how to play QB.

Before 2015, AR did not say anything negative about MM publicly. Starting in 2015 AR began to make sniping public comments.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:52 am

All of AR's contracts have been extensions, except his rookie deal, of course. His first extension struck some as pretty rich. The next two make him the highest paid player in the NFL.

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TXCHEESE's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:34 pm

Gotta love these "sources" Dunne has. Next thing you know, he'll be on camera at ESPN.

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buddrow53's picture

April 04, 2019 at 04:35 pm

Kinda like to hear from Tarynfor12 your thoughts.

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Demon's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:19 pm

I would too. I dont always agree with taryn but shes her own person, speaks well and is well informed.

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baldski's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:05 pm

I loved this article Dunne did. It reminds me of that reporter that used to write for the Milwaukee Journal. He rode a motorcycle and did not even like football but he told the truth as he saw it and did a great job. I can't remember his name. Anybody?

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:12 pm

Talking about Cliff Christl? Bob McGinn was pretty good also. Hated by those who like a more puff n fluff feel to things.

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Demon's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:24 pm

I thought you were going to grace the Browns with all your nuggets of wisdom. Dont come back here to give us the benefits of your presence. Theres millions of Browns fans begging for your own blend of B.S. it would be selfish of us to deny them of it.

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John Kirk's picture

April 04, 2019 at 09:40 pm

Love Baker Mayfield. My favorite non-Packers player in the history of the NFL. Guy lit that stadium on fire when he came in vs. Jets on Thursday night. Never seen anything like it.

I also love that real Green Bay still exists. IN CLEVELAND. Dorsey should be the Packers GM. He's not. Eliot and Alonzo are there as well as Scot who is one of my favorites.

Said this before last season. Green Bay will become Cleveland and Cleveland will become Green Bay. Took only one season for Cleveland to outdo Green Bay. The transition has already happened.

The Browns do everything I always wanted the Packers to do since Wolf. OBJ and Landry along with Njoku, Hunt and Chubb is going to be electric. I can't wait. Dorsey loaded up for his star QB which is something Ted NEVER did much to my chagrin and Aaron's.

Hey, you feel obligated to defend the Green and Gold just because. I never did. I rip them when they need to be ripped which has been a ton over the years and never more than now.

You'll see. You didn't see when guys like me were screaming into the forest. Now, I'm even more dogmatic the crap show at 1265 will only intensify. It's going to be Cat 5 here shortly. You'll be up in arms. Save this post. You'll think you can use it later when I'm wrong but I won't be.

I'm Wisconsin raised. Almost 40 years of rabid passionate following of the Packers. Followed them to SF for NFC Championship game after the SB winning year under Wolf. I put my money where my mouth was with support. It's comical to read how I'm a troll, Vikings fan, etc. I just literally despise Magic Mark. The fact you don't tells me you don't pay attention too closely. Same reason you never saw what I saw over the years. You never will until you open your eyes and shake of the fantasy and delusion. It is more fun that way but it also causes issues when reality hits home like it is now. This is why that MM/AR piece is labeled the past and why so many here want to pay it lip service and quickly move on. Nobody who has been ridiculously wrong about this team an organization wanted this put in their face. I'm gloating because it's my time to do so. Vindication for all the years I had to listen to insufferable cult like followers of this team who had zero clue about the team they supposedly followed every single day. I assure you there's much coming you are not going to like starting with this season. Buckle up. Let's see who sticks around when this team is under .500 for a few more seasons.

Bears and Vikings already better. If Patricia can get his guys to buy in the Packers are cellar dwellers once again like Al Harris spoke to. It can easily happen. You don't realize how on the edge of that this org is right now.

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:32 pm

Sad to say, but you're 100% spot on.

I also was a fan back in the 70s. Went to a Packers Super Bowl, and have seen the Packers play in about 8 or 9 stadiums around the USA.

I remember being very disappointed when Thompson hired McCarthy. I later said I was wrong as we got good again & won a Super Bowl. But I think I was right first & then wrong.

But I still blame arrogant stubborn, then mentally I'll Thompson a lot as well.

If it was a pie chart, I blame TT about 60%, MM about 30%, and Arod about 10%.

I think Arod was a prick to many WRs & to some other players & coaches.

Also, I got to know Aaron's dad a bit in that 2008 transitional off season.
His dad is high character.

For Rodgers to have cut ties with his parents, more evidence of his lack of character.

Lastly, I cannot blame him for being mad at MM for screwing him on draft day. That stings forever & I still don't see what MM credentials were to get hired as our Head Coach.

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Johnblood27's picture

April 04, 2019 at 11:46 pm

Kirk your commentary on Mark Murphy and the packers franchise is an echo of my comments on my favorite baseball team growing up the New York Yankees and their owner George steinbrenner I dropped that team after 35 years of fandom because I could not stomach rooting for a team led by a person with that character. I feel the same way about Marc murphy and the packers. The difference is I will not drop the packers. I will continue to dislike Mark Murphy. I will look forward to the day he is no longer with the Green Bay Packers and mark my words that day will come. I will still be a fan of the proud franchise in green bay as I was before Mark Murphy I endure through Marc murphy and I will continue beyond Mark Murphy. I'm glad you find comfort in Cleveland but once you drop a team you don't get to come back. My dad who was a lifelong yankees fan called me the day after George steinbrenner past and simply said these words you coming back. I said no and it's Ben an additional 25 years since then I am a proud Seattle Mariners baseball fan I will never root for the New York Yankees again. And I will not drop the Green Bay Packers just because of Mark Murphy. You may now leave.

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John Kirk's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:10 am

Love your post jb27 and Eddie Lee's...

One thing I've found very interesting is those who are worried about what team I choose to follow. Who cares?

Even more interesting is this notion that I can't comeback? What? Sure, I can. Nobody dictates that decision to me. Not you. Nobody.

If I had remained on board, I'd still keep a close eye on the Browns. I freaking love Mayfield. He's my kind of player. The Browns are the aggressive org I always wanted the Packers to be and were under Wolf. Watching Cleveland will be like watching the Ron Wolf Packers for me.

I'm so excited about the NFL season. As excited as I've been in many years thanks to Green Bay South. I guarantee you don't have the same level of optimism I do. You couldn't possibly.

I'll still be a huge Aaron Jones fan. I was before he was ever a Packer. Love that guy. I hope he runs for 2k this season. I'll still be a huge Pettine fan. I just won't care about the Packers this year like I have for the previous 39 years. I'll still keep close watch. It really won't be too much different than the last several years.

You couldn't stand Steinbrenner and I applaud you for that. Few have the balls to do that. I used to work with someone who gave up the Cowboys because of Jerry Jones. People who stand for something beyond a game on TV inspire me. It's pretty pathetic to say that you'll be a fan no matter what. That means ANYTHING and EVERYTHING goes. Who lives like that? That's not real life. That's fantasy, Mr. Mercury. If your wife continually did you wrong are you staying just because?

Good luck to your Mariners. They're off to a great start.

Eddie Lee... You inspire me. I'm glad there are fans like you out there.

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fastmoving's picture

April 05, 2019 at 06:14 am

That is the last time I read that incoherently, contradict BS. Life is just too short.
but at least you like the undersiezed QB, who is nothing special at all. Good luck with that. So your football wisdom is even better than your overall smarts?
So Im really sorry for you. Ist not easy I guess…...

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baldski's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:13 pm

Thanks John. Yes, Cliff Christl was the man. Bob McGinn also was a good reporter.

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carlos's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:19 pm

It was an interesting and some what troubling article. I can’t say I knew this was going on all along. I know all teams in sports has their “moments. There were some obvious things over the years that had me wondering and concerned. “I just hope the team and all involved can put this article to bed and work on what this is really about-winning championships. Be men and work as a team. MF has a big job a head of him, but seems like a coach who can be successful if given half a chance. He’s put some good young coaches around him. I’m anxious to see a successful year.

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SterlingSharpe's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:30 pm

"But this should've been a Patriots-like reign. History. One former teammate says he thinks Rodgers should have won a minimum of six Super Bowl rings under McCarthy and that the 2011 team should be remembered like the '72 Dolphins."

Yes it is true, Rodgers should have won as many rings as Brady has, when all is said & done.
One thing to UNdefend Rodgers is this though: He played crappy in that 2014 NFCCG at Seattle and had 2 bad Ints and 1 bad miss to Jordy for a simple TD that ended up in one of those FGs from the 1-yard line. Remember, Kuhn & Lacy each got stopped at the 1 and each should have scored. But Rodgers was part of the problem that game. That should have been a blowout win if he played great as he did vs Dallas the week before for the last 2 quarters of it....

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Jonathan Spader's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:51 pm

So your criticism of superman is he couldn't carry his team by himself quite all the way......

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:33 pm

That 2014 team was loaded. He didn't have to "carry" them.
They were much better than Seattle, just blew it. And part of that was his play that day.

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Adorabelle's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:23 am

In 2011, well early 2012 by the time of the playoffs, Mr. Philbin's son was found dead and the team came out and looked unprepared and lethargic in a home playoff game.

In 2014, a one legged Mr. Rodgers did play poorly on the road against the league's best defense. But the Packer defense was superb and had the game won - until they didn't. No team should lose a game ahead by two scores with less than 3 minutes to go, but they did.

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bbarryirish's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:49 pm

As a die hard Packers fan- please keep dishing on Rodgers!
Remember the junior college-remember the draft- remember "the train has left the station" (Favre)- remember week one of last season.
The man wants/needs/craves a chip (BOULDER) on his shoulder. We are giving that to him. I love it!
AR is going to come out with a new coach, new coordinator, and ,most importantly a new fire to prove every single one of you wrong!
Exactly what he and this team needed. He has no choice but to buy in to new coaching. Failing to buy in makes him the fall guy for the past and present. He will do everything in his power to succeed! I believe we are about to see the best Aaron Rodgers possible. I can only hope Gute puts a team around him that allows for TEAM success.
Go Pack Go!!

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:49 pm

Considering Rodgers A) ability & B) arrogance, I've wondered about making/letting him call all the plays, lead the offensive gameplan. He'd have all the skin in the game, be all-in.
He believes he's the smartest guy on the field or sidelines. Let him prove it.

He'd never give a half-ass effort again. For any coach.

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Dragon5's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:14 pm

Peyton did it...no reason ARod can't given his resume..."smart" check-downs would be appreciated when warranted.

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Irish_Cheesehead's picture

April 04, 2019 at 05:54 pm

Can’t take anything Greg Jennings or Jermichael Finley says seriously. Sorry. Time for those guys to shut up and move on already.

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4thand1's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:07 pm

There isn't one person in here who wasn't screaming for change after the AZ loss last year. It WAS the final nail in the coffin most fans were hammering on. Also this is nothing new throughout the history of the NFL, QBs and HCs no seeing eye to eye over their careers. This is what happens on losing teams, someones gotta go. In this case it sure wasn't going to be the teams best player and best chance of winning. Nothing to see here, like Samson said................time for a new and better beginning.

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PAPackerbacker's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:39 pm

My point exactly. It was a good run with MM up until 3 years ago. Can't change what happened in the past. Time to move on. Hopefully it will be a better beginning. Changes are made with a focus on the future and the future has yet to be determined.

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Swedish Chef's picture

April 04, 2019 at 06:21 pm

It ves inefiteble-a zeet McCerthy und Rudgers vuould pert veys. But ire-a guod mee-a, buot sumetimes a deefurce-a is necessery. I zeenk it ves a heelthy spleet fur but. I zeenk zeere-a ire-a better deys iheed fur zee-a gree-a und guld. Bork Bork Bork!

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Demon's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:50 pm

Theres a poster i wont bother to ever try to read again.

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Skip greenBayless's picture

April 05, 2019 at 04:17 pm

He speaks better English than Fastmoving.

Dash

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holmesmd's picture

April 05, 2019 at 10:37 am

LoL

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Swisch's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:43 pm

I seem to remember a story told by the great Don Shula about his first year as a young head coach of the Baltimore Colts in 1963 -- and the early rebellion of the marvelous quarterback, Johnny Unitas.
In a key game situation, Unitas blatantly disobeyed a play call by Shula, and it turned out that the insubordination worked spectacularly. Unitas then told Shula that he was the one calling the shots, and it seems Shula went along with it.
If I've got the story basically right, I wonder if this troubling incident is the reason why this excellent Colts team never won a championship in the Shula years during the remainder of the 1960s.
The quarterback can't be the coach. He has to be coachable. If he thinks the coach is utterly incompetent, then he has to go to management privately; and if that doesn't work, he needs to make his case in public for the sake of the fans. Otherwise, the quarterback has to support the coach all the way.
In the Ice Bowl against the Cowboys in the championship game of 1967, Packers coach Vince Lombardi met on the sideline with his quarterback, Bart Starr, about the momentous fourth-and-goal play that would decide the game.
Starr said he thought a quarterback sneak to gain the necessary yard for the winning touchdown would work better than a handoff because of the icy conditions and slippery footing.
In the critical moment on the frigid wasteland, Lombardi told Starr to go for it -- and let's get the hell outta here.
This historic play for an epic victory -- frozen in time, so to speak -- was the culmination of the ultimate relationship between coach and quarterback. Lombardi was definitively and unquestionably the boss; with that right order established, Starr gradually gained the trust of Lombardi over the years -- and this remarkable collaboration paid off in this most famous of crunchtime calls in this most legendary of games.
Right away, Aaron Rodgers needs to make it abundantly clear to teammates and fans that Matt LaFleur is the head coach of the Green Bay Packers -- and he is not.
That is the key to our future success as a team, and the concluding legacy of our beloved but bewildering QB. In his humility is our common glory.
Championships are not about plays, but people! Let's do it -- Green Bay Packers; Super Bowl winners; 2020 season!

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:31 pm

FYI, Bart Starr's QB sneak was on 3rd down not 4th.
The point being that if Starr didn't score the Packers would not have had enough time to line up for a game tying FG or a 4th down play. Dallas was expecting a pass play because if a pass was incomplete the clock would stop and the Packers could try for an FG or a 4th down play.

Starr and Lombardi were great but the Packers OL made that drive happen. Starr called the plays and the players executed brilliantly given the conditions at that point in the game. Thanks, Since '61

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Swisch's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:22 am

Good stuff, '61.
I am thankful for corrections because my memory is subject to error.
It's worth noting that in the second half of the Ice Bowl, the Packers offense was completely shut down by the Cowboys -- truly obliterated -- until that final drive.
It was a masterpiece of resilience and the crowning achievement of the Lombardi Era -- the culmination of nine seasons of teamwork coming together in the most formidable, frostbitten conditions.
Sports doesn't get any better.

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Johnblood27's picture

April 04, 2019 at 11:55 pm

While we are fixing the record I believe a running play to Chuck mercein was the play call star determined on his own to carry the ball. A quarterback sneak was not the play call. Bart did know the blocking scheme and determined with the icy conditions that mercein May slip and not make the play so he took it upon himself to carry the ball. I was not in the huddle but this is what I have seen written through "of Bart Starr himself.

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Swisch's picture

April 05, 2019 at 12:20 am

Hey, Johnblood,
I'm not sure of all the factors with that play.
My understanding is that in the huddle the guys thought it was a handoff to Mercein, but Starr already had the go-ahead from Lombardi to go with the sneak.
The surprised Mercein, following Starr into the end zone with his momentum, threw his arms up in the air in an apparent signal for a touchdown -- but he was really trying to show the referees that he was not illegally helping to push Starr forward.
There's a great special on the NFL Channel about the 1967 team (part of a series on Super Bowl champs); I hope to watch it again to brush up on my memory of the great game.
Mercein is one of the three Packers interviewed for that documentary; just the fact that he was a key player on that final drive shows the resourcefulness of Lombardi in getting the most out of his players.
Mercein comes across as a really good guy.

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crayzpackfan's picture

April 04, 2019 at 07:44 pm

Gotta love it when the media serves up a big bowl of toxic negativity to garner clicks and ratings. With LeBron out of the playoffs, they need to find a star they can bash to fill the void. With Duke, Kentucky, and North Carolina our of March Madness, they’re even more desperate to manufacture news to fill the void. In comes MM with his sour grapes interview allowing the media to pile on and turn a mole hill into Devils Tower. The fact remains the same. We had a great free agency this year, new coaches, lots of draft picks, and a great QB. I see way more here to be positive about than what the hyperbolic media is trying to sell us. Go Pack!!

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wildbill's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:04 pm

If you changed the names, I wonder how many teams that article would fit?

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:35 pm

At some point it would apply to just about every team and millions of other one on one relationships. They ran their course and we've had a hell of a ride.

We're overdue to get off that one and it's time to get on the new ride with BG and MLF. Thanks, Since '61

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Wilment's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:27 pm

Time to move along...new coaches, new players, new team. All that other stuff is some fact, some fiction, some conjecture and all in all, old news. Lets look to the future. GO PACK!!

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Since'61's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:36 pm

I'm with you. Thanks, Since '61

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zerotolerance's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:32 pm

I never liked Dunn.

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Packer Fan's picture

April 04, 2019 at 08:47 pm

The Dunne article is over rated. Every organization has issues, every organization has personality conflicts. You want you superstar QB to do special things, even sometimes not following orders. As long as things get done and they win games, every thing is OK. lt's when things start falling apart. It started in 2015. Thompson lost his ability to draft good players. McCarthy didn't change and his offense became predictable. The team was short on talent, especially in the secondary. And then McCarthy completely lost it last year, including the respect of the star player. The Packers have to reset. More talent. Better draft choices. A better offensive scheme. And then work with Rodgers to get him interested again to work with Lafleur. Might take a season, at best a half season. But with Rodgers, we always have a chance.

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MarkinMadison's picture

April 04, 2019 at 09:46 pm

A whole lot to digest there.

Regarding the offense going stale, a lot of that rings true. I think even I was wondering in posts here the last couple of years where the slant routes had gone. Others have been writing for the last few years about the lack of pre-snap motion, rub routes etc.

Regarding the dueling play calls, a lot of that rings true too. We've all been wondering where the running game went. I think a lot of us suspected #12 was probably audibling out of runs too often. The dueling routes is new, and inexcusable.

I've long suspected that Rodgers' personality and how he relates to his receivers was probably an issue. Not a popular opinion here. Still will not be. Hopefully, he'll decide that the best thing for his legacy is to buy-in, prove the haters wrong, and win a Super Bowl with MLF. Because it IS the best thing for him, and everyone else involved with the Packers.

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Coldworld's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:20 pm

In my view, if half of this is true, it is time for the clearout to be completed. No President of the organization depicted in that article presiding over that course of decay over that length of time has any business keeping his job.

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oceanstrength's picture

April 04, 2019 at 10:38 pm

Journalism at its worse. Unnamed sources? Then has the gall to suggest unnamed sources shouldn't discredit an article. Journalism has really descended to tabloid sensationalism and slander. Tyler Dunn and this boso Backes, are just ambulance chasers, no integrity.

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albert999's picture

April 04, 2019 at 11:03 pm

No one really gives a shit what yall really think

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albert999's picture

April 04, 2019 at 11:05 pm

They are gonna do what they are gonna do
stop drinking the kool aid

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JLab3's picture

April 04, 2019 at 11:18 pm

How many top echelon, long duration QB's don't have some friction with a head coach? Farve did, Big Ben does and looks like Russell Wilson ain't all that jacked up about Pete Carroll. So what....it goes with the territory for an NFL HC. Maybe McCarthy wasn't the guy to best deal with Rodgers at this stage of his career and 'yes', the offense was predictable but does anyone think Aaron is going to roll over and play dead if the Matt LaFleur offense doesn't look so "new" to the the Bear and Viking defenses? Remember the blank look on Sean McVay's face after his "dynamic" offense laid a three point egg in the Super Bowl....that could be us in 2019...then who do we blame?

Yet, despite all the "problems", Rodgers signed an affordable long term deal with minimal disturbance when he could have gone elsewhere. That's a very good thing. Just as importantly, If the Pack had done a better job of obtaining new talent over the last three to five years we'd likely be in a much better place. I'm not sure MM would still be around but I know Tyler Dunne wouldn't be out looking for "unnamed sources" to make a story. On to the draft!

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4thand1's picture

April 04, 2019 at 11:27 pm

20 DAYS-19 HOURS-33 MINUTES.

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Bure9620's picture

April 05, 2019 at 09:05 am

The Dunne article is interesting and keeping an open mind, there are likely some pieces here that have credence. Rodgers is tough on receivers and an icy relationship with MM and lack of respect. Yet, many people critical of the Packers love to simply point to Finley and Jennings. Which is understandable. But JJ, Nelson, Grant, Aaron Jones and many others continue to defend him. McCarthy had to go, leadership was complacent. And reading MM's recent interview, that rings true.

Many of you are already saying MLF will be a failure and get walked on by Rodgers without letting it play out. The guy is 0-0. Let's see what happens. This could re-invigorate Rodgers.

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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

April 05, 2019 at 07:52 am

When you are as talented as Rodgers and have the success, longevity, the money, and fame there inevitably will be naysayers and upset people.

I am not saying Rodgers is perfect but with the picture Dunne points out about the culture in front offices at 1265 Lombardi Ave. Rodgers had a lot put on his shoulders that he shouldn't have had to deal with year after year. Totally unfair! Rodgers did what was needed to be done to try keeping the Packers successful. To hear people attacking Rodgers after what he has done just isnt right.

I am confidant Rodgers, Hackett, LF, and Gute will work well together turning the ship around and we will once again have Packer success.

Do not be surprised at all in a defensive talented draft to see the Pack selecting a lot of offensive talent. Bring in an offensive orientated head coach and what better way to start off a positive relationship between the aforementioned than give Rodgers a lot of offensive talent right from the start.

I am looking forward to the draft, camp, and the 2019 season like never before. I also would not be surprised to see Rodgers opening up and sharing his perspective of what went on these past 13 years sometime this year as he pretty much has to have a response to Dunne's report.

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Dragon5's picture

April 05, 2019 at 07:59 am

nice perspective

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Bure9620's picture

April 05, 2019 at 09:05 am

Good points, it starts at the top