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Point of Veau: I Don't Care if the Packers Ever Retire Favre's Number

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Point of Veau: I Don't Care if the Packers Ever Retire Favre's Number

Packer Nation is a-twitter over news that team president and CEO Mark Murphy put a timeline on the retiring of Brett Favre's iconic No. 4.

While on annual goodwill Tailgate Tour around the state of Wisconsin, Murphy told students at West Allis Hale High School in response to a question on the subject, "Yes, he deserves that for what he did as a Packer. Probably in a year or two. We want to do it at a time that's meaningful to him." Lori Nickel of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel was there to capture Murphy's words for posterity.

Some have reacted to the news with trepidation, the wounds still not healed from Favre's ugly divorce from the franchise. Others think it's already overdue.

I'm not Mark Murphy, but I personally don't think Favre deserves the honor of having his number retired for eternity.

To me, that's a distinction that's higher than the Hall of Fame, or at least it is as far as the Packers are concerned. Teams with a less glorious history might have less stringent standards, but not in Green Bay.

Personally, I see it as a recognition that should come to people who not only played at an impossibly-high level, but also conducted themselves with dignity and displayed respect for others. And that's something I don't think Favre did.

The hemming and hawing, will he or won't he retirement dance he did seemingly every year didn't bother me.

But Favre, unfortunately, showed his true colors in his reasons for wanting to part ties with the Packers.

He got angry at general manager Ted Thompson who chose not to trade for Randy Moss and bring other veteran players to Green Bay. Favre's sense of entitlement reeked of vanity and pomposity for wanting to make decisions reserved for the front office.

The way he took to Greta Van Susteren's show on Fox News to voice his displeasure with the Packers in the summer of 2008 was another move that lacked class.

And worst of all are the allegations that Favre sent naked pictures of himself to Jen Sterger and sent lewd messages to a pair of masseuses while with the New York Jets.

Nothing has been proven in a court of law, but I have all the evidence I need to make an opinion on Favre when he was fined $50,000 by the NFL for refusing to cooperate with its investigation into whether the quarterback violated the league's personal conduct policy in 2010.

These are not actions of somebody who deserves inclusion into a group of which there are only five members, arguably the five best players in team history that also didn't have such major character flaws: Don Hutson, Tony Canadeo, Bart Starr, Ray Nitschke and Reggie White.

On the other hand, I don't mind if Favre is inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame or the Packers Hall of Fame. I'll even advocate for his inclusion into the fraternity of such a prestigious group of players.

My opinion may differ from others, but I view the Hall of Fame as the acknowledgement of how well a player performed between the lines, not outside of them. That being said, it shouldn't come as not surprise that I think Pete Rose should be in baseball's Hall of Fame too.

Favre is worthy of that honor. Neither I nor any sane person can deny his ample credentials: his all-time NFL records for passing yards and touchdowns, his streak of  consecutive starts, his three MVP awards and his win in Super Bowl XXXI. His unorthodox yet incredibly successful style of play defied convention.

And with induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Favre's name will be included in the team's "Ring of Honor" along with others on the facade inside Lambeau Field.

That's enough for Favre, and all he's deserving of.

I don't expect others to share my opinion, particularly the decision-makers within the Packers organization who are subject to continuous questioning from the fans and the media.

I fully anticipate Favre's number to, indeed, be retired. Whether it happens in the year or two timeframe mentioned by Murphy is up for debate, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it does.

But if I made the call, Favre's number wouldn't be retired under my watch.

Brian Carriveau is a writer for Cheesehead TV. To contact Brian, email [email protected].


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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (143) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

foundinidaho's picture

You know what Brian? I really do agree with you. Bravo for saying it.

Lynn Dickey 12's picture

My views on taking 4 back into the family have been already clearly stated on these pages.

I am someone who was quite anti-4 for some time. However, now that he has no hope of returning to the league and didn't bring the Jets or Vikings a championship in his time away from GB, I believe the time has come for all of us to move on.

But, even if I have done so, the comments below tell me that for many the wound is still too fresh, and that Super Bowl XLV painkiller can't make it all go away.

And what about 4? If there's no lucrative personal services contract in it for him, is he going to give the Packers the time of day? I doubt it, at least while Murphy and Thompson are around.

For the time being, 4 will be a number like 5. Hornung never had his number retired, but nobody's used it in the past 25 years. I've always thought Hornung's gambling supension prevents 5 from being retired. The stain of 4's departure might be a similar scenario.

Time marches on, people. Push out the jive, bring in the love.

mrjnumber1's picture

Reggie White definitely had character flaws; he was very openly bigoted against homosexuals.

Jer's picture

That's true. He was far from perfect.

I guess the difference for me is that Reggie never disrespected the organization.

GoPack12's picture

He was not a bigot. He actually expressed the views held by a majority of Americans.

packeraaron's picture


Evan's picture

At the time, sure. Still bigoted, though.

Jeremy's picture

Yeah and at one time the majority of Americans though Jim Crow was just fine too.

PaulJ's picture


GoPack12's picture

I love the intolerant lefties telling those who stand by biblical morals that they are bigots. Regardless, I completely agree with the premise of the article.

CSS's picture

Bible also bans the consumption of shellfish and supports slavery, specifically advocating the sale of your daughters into slavery. If you live within a biblical framework you can't pick and choose, unless of course it supports your own prejudice.

Brewfangrb's picture

I'd ask if you're kidding, GoPack12, but I know you're not. Absolving someone of being a bigot because lots of people think that way sounds suspiciously bigoted.

Besides those views, there was and IS (in MY mind, anyway) the lingering questions over the use of the funds that so many donated when his church burned down. No one is perfect, but White is hardly close to perfect.

GoPack12's picture

Those things cited above were ceremonial laws in the old testament and no longer apply. My frustration is with the term bigot. We disagree; don't call names. It's juvenile. Respect my point of view and I will do the same

Chad Toporski's picture

While I disagree with GoPack12's views on the subject, I must agree that calling people "bigots" is not the way to voice an opinion. Being an actual bigot requires a level of extreme thought and action. I'm not sure to what extent Reggie White spoke out or acted against homosexuals.

mrjnumber1's picture

There is no doubt about him being bigoted; he came out and said that it was offensive to him that homosexuals want rights... Twice affirmed that he thinks that gays are like liars/cheaters/backstabbers/malicious... Blamed gays for causing STDs to be transferred.. Said many times that he finds homosexuality to be a problem...

It's not like it was a single instance, he did this for years.

Cole's picture

The vikes should retire his number as more of their fans adore him him than ours. Besides, I don't think any qb coming into gb would want to wear that number. If not for the sheer number of atrocious fails and selfishishness for the entirety of the 2000's, he might have a case to have his number retired.

dat der Packer-backer's picture

I think maybe the reason the Minnesota faithful love him so much is not so much what he's done for them, but as a middle finger with a huge smirk on their faces directed to the direct east.

markinmontana's picture

I think the Vikings punter wore number 4 last season. I thought that was kinda funny.

packsmack25's picture

I'm gonna go back and read the article, but +1 just for the headline. Buck Frett.

pgf's picture


wgbeethree's picture

I have a much harder time with including him in the Ring of "HONOR". He simply NEVER conducted himself with enough of it to deserve that IMO. I know it's been considered a "given" once your inducted into Canton that you go up on the ROH but that's where I'd draw my personal line in the sand and make my statement were I in charge. The current front office is made up of far better and far less bitter men then myself though and I'm certain it'll happen relatively soon. I'll be there to loudly boo him when it happens though.

Richard Chang's picture

Brian's off his meds. If they don't retire his number, what am I supposed to do with my _4_ book? What will the WORLD do? Add pages to it like a scrapbook?

ohenry78's picture

I guess the question that the decision makers here need to ask, is: which is a more important factor in determining whether or not to retire a number? Accomplishments on the field, or personality off? Because with Favre, it's two completely different cases.

On the field, Favre was the catalyst for the turnaround of the franchise as a whole. He really was the reason why the Packers went from a laughing stock every year, to a perennial contender. It's hard to guess what would have happened had he not come to GB and had the success he had, but chances are it wouldn't have been great. A player that was that central to revitalizing a team and a fanbase certainly deserves the honor of a retired number, I think.

On the other hand, as Brian points out, he has had his off-the-field issues, and had such a "me-first" attitude through his career that really shined through in the twilight years. He is not a shining example of a "Packer person" like we all used to think he was.

As I started writing this, my opinion was that they SHOULD retire his number, and that the on field accomplishments counted more given their extreme magnitude.

However, after thinking about it some more, I have to agree with Brian that the Packers should NOT retire his number. If nothing else, to send a message to current and future Packers that no matter how good of a player you are on the field, if you can't be a decent human being when you're not playing football you cannot reach the highest honors of Packers lore.

wgbeethree's picture

The second paragraph is always something I've had a problem with. With Wolf, Holmgren, Brunell, and Hassleback we would have been just fine had he never came to GB and he likely would have drank/drugged/womanized his way out pf the league. I truly believe Favre owes the GB organization FAR more for his success than the other way around.

ohenry78's picture

I have to disagree. Favre may not have panned out on other teams, to be sure. But did Hasselbeck or Brunell ever put the team on their back like Favre did? Not really. Brunell was pretty effective as a starter, and Hasselbeck had some good years, but I don't think they had nearly the talent level that Favre had.

And it's also about star power. Favre's personality, or at least his public persona (as much of a facade as we now know it to be) meshed well with Wisconsinites. Before the diva act came public, it was his personality as much as his play that pulled the team from the dregs and put them where they are today. That's just not something I could have seen Matt or Mark do.

It's all speculation, to be sure, since we won't know for sure what would have happened. But while those two may have been respectable, I don't think they could have held a candle to Favre in the same situation that he was put in.

wgbeethree's picture

My thing is that Favre never really accomplished much my "putting the team on his back". Still believe we would have pulled off at least one Super Bowl with Brunell at the helm. He was playing at a Pro Bowl level at thea time and those teams were stacked. Most of Favre's attempts to put the team on his back resulted in notoriously horrible playoff moments.
The Packers didn't really ever need Favre's personality to draw fans. They sold out and had great support from the fans through the 70's and 80's and I'm pretty certain that would have continued had our QB play been merely Pro Bowl level rather than MVP level.
It is all speculation but while neither of those guys were likely to have put up the kind of numbers Favre did over his last decade with the team at the very worst they would have won the same number of Super Bowls over that time frame. ;-)

Ian's picture

Seriously? A 3-time MVP wasn't that impressive? I understand that the Packers-Favre breakup was far from amicable but let's not rewrite history just because we're still a little hurt.

Steve's picture

Agree! Agree! Totally agree!

John's picture

Really ,so your judge and jury all in one .it amazes me how fast everyone forgets what he did for the team ,hmmm he's not there and I bet there's no Super Bowl and the stadium upgrades forget about that too.i have been a loyal fan since 1965 and I remember all those years until he arrived .it wasn't pretty .

Steve's picture

Oh puke to your on-the-field crap. He wouldn't have been on-the-field at all if not for Ron Wolf and Mike Holmgren.

He was an idiot on and off the field. He got paid and we're done with him.

Retiring his number would sully the memory of every other player with a retired number. He's not worthy of carrying their jock staps.

AndrewInAtlanta's picture

Oh, but I do share your opinion. Every word of it. Well said

John Sturrock's picture

Favre was a fan favourite who ultimately let his fans down. I had the pleasure to attend a game he won in his last season as a Packer and the joy of witnessing his demise at Lambeau in 2010

June's picture

I honestly don't have a problem with the Packers retiring his number, but I think the 1-2 year date is WAY too soon. I mean, Aaron will still be our QB and Ted will still be the GM. I think they should definitely wait a while - the wounds still feel too fresh. Is this just me??

jrunde10's picture

The appropriate phrase for this one is forgiven, but not forgotten. Packer fans should forgive Favre and even celebrate his career as a packer, but that doesn't mean he deserves the same love and glory that he otherwise would have received had he retired in 2008. It can never be the same. From a PR perspective, the packers have to retire his number. But packer fans are not going to look up at that #4 in Lambeau with the same admiration they would otherwise feel for 92 or 15. It's awkward at best.

And even though Favre and the Packers are being PC, they still have to bury the hatchet officially before he's inducted into the Hall of Fame. Right now, both sides are basically hoping time will mend the relationship. But the tension still exists and there is still time for this to get worse. The ball is in Favre's court right now and I've heard he's still pretty pissed about what went down. Chewy said about a month ago that Favre doesn't know why the $20 million retirement deal is off the table. It's thoughts like this that lead me to wonder what else does Favre still think he's entitled to? And will this false sense of entitlement rear it's ugly head when Favre finally sits down with the packers. This may get worse before it gets better.

AKBart's picture

I think Favre's number should be retired, fame is corrosive and not everyone can handle it. Don't think I would make it through that and not be changed by it. I don't believe that he started out like the a$$ he ended up being. I am repulsed by the thought of retiring his number now and think its just to soon but one day I think I would like to remember the player he was rather than the one he ended up being. As much as I hate to admit it, I think he was the most important single player in franchise history. For now I'm still bummed about how he squandered the good will of the GB faithfull. I hope to feel differently someday

Suz Deschane's picture

I totally agree with you Brian!There was a time but in my opinion his actions took the "Ring Of Honor" away. I really think he will retire a Viking just to finish off the last Packer fan left defending him.

zcalvelli's picture

I'm pretty sure some of the names in the ring of honor wouldn't hold up to the media scrutiny of today. The guy made us a perennial contender while throwing to nobodies for most of his career. He's on the short list of greatest QBs ever. Should Namath's number not be retired? Love your stuff Brian, but this one's a bit myopic imho.

Evan's picture

That's what I was thinking. Would Paul Hornung hold up to this level of scrutiny?

Evan's picture

Of course, Hornung doesn't have his number retired. Ignore me. Carry on.

Shawn's picture

Favre was a drunken, bastard of a person when he was in Atlanta. They had no problem letting him go when the Pack showed interest. I am surprised we wanted him. BUT it is not surprising to me that he did what he did at the end of his carrier when looking at how it started. That was always his attitude and personality. We just looked the other way because he was winning games.

Ian's picture

WOW! IMagine that, a 22 year old who just got handed a few hundred thousand dollars started to party! That NEVER happens unless the kid is a complete waste of flesh! Also, a first round pick in trade isn't exactly "handing him over"

Evan's picture

I also think stuff, both good and bad, that happens while he's on a different team shouldn't weigh much, if at all, in discussions like this.

Jer's picture

The only thing I would say is that it should ONLY happen if Favre has gotten over it and is ready to embrace and appreciate the honor fully. I don't want to hear any BS from him about how he might not see eye to eye with Ted Thompson but he'll do it for fans, teammates, whatever.

This is the highest honor the Packers can give a player, and he damn well better be ready to hug TT in front of 70,000 screaming fans. If there's an ounce of reluctance from him because we didn't get Randy Moss or some other such nonsense, they should tell him to pound sand.

My fear is that Murphy will be so eager for the PR that he'll kiss Favre's butt and all but beg him to accept the honor, and that would really cheese me off.

Oppy's picture

Brian, great stuff, it's wonderful to read a story where you take such a strong stance.

I want to go beat up a Favre apologist now!

packsmack25's picture

This made me chortle a bit. Let's go kick their ass!

Ceallaigh's picture

Hold on, let me get my hammer first...

FITZCORE1252's EVO's picture

Just proves my point... "Packer People" is a sham, lip-service if you will, they wouldn't/couldn't do it if it wasn't.

Man I'm on a roll! First being proven 100% absolutely, unmistakeably correct about Driver 8-), now about "Packer People", and Chael Sonnen won the Smack-off today. Life's GOOD. No... GREAT! Later losers, I've got people to meet and liquor to drink.


PackersRS's picture

He's still going to get chocked in the end. ;)

FITZCORE1252's EVO's picture

Quite possibly. I'm just a big Sonnen fan... He's a true asshole, I appreciate that!

PackersRS's picture

You got that part right.

He does back up all the trash talk, though. He wooped Anderson Silva's ass last fight. Just got too cocky at the wrong time. All it takes is one error and Silva made him pay.

FITZCORE1252's EVO's picture

Yeah, he had his way with Spider for 4.5 rounds, unfortunately for Chael.... There was still that last .5, and he got careless. And getting careless with Spider never ends well. Never!

Carolina Mike's picture

Well written, and I couldn't agree more. I am not looking forward to the day that Number Four goes up on the wall. Other's up their had their flaws as well (Paul Horning for instance, who missed a season for gambling on football). I will always believe a quarterback with more maturity would have been two more than two and won more than one Superbowl during his tenure. I was a huge fan at one time, but Favre's disrespect for the organization and it's fans as well as his off field behavior have left me tired and emotionless.

FruitPacker's picture

Should let all the owners vote on what to about Favre. I would vote for Packer's Hall of Fame and against retiring number four.

KurtMc's picture

+1 for Brain. My family & I were on the Farve Cool-Aid kick, until he became a self asorbed A-Hole.

No one person is greater than the team. BF had a great run in GB, but he also had a supporting staff and team.

Lets not forget that BF cost us the chance at maybe 2 more SB chances. Live by Farve, Die By Farve was the way of life in GB.

Retire or not, BF is not or will never be the Green Bay Packers, as so many Favre apologist want.

Wait a while longer Ted, then take the GB nation pulse.

Derek Greco's picture

Where is the like button?!

Great article man. Favre is/was a bitch and burnt a bridge with gasoline.

Rocky70's picture

A sincere, public apology by BF should be required before retiring #4.

However, unless BF has had some kind of epiphany, I find it difficult to believe that he even gives a $hit. He turned into a 1st class a$$ long ago.

Kathy's picture

That's were it gets sticky for me. Favre doesn't give a rat's ass. Remember his utterance.."it's MY legacy". Yup, His. Not the Pack, not Green Bay, not the fans.
No one will ever wear #4 again. It's become almost anti-iconic. And in that sense, it's already retired.
I'd love it if Thompson announced they were retiring it, then a day later retracted it, then two days later retired it again. In fact he could keep that up for a month, just for sh*ts and grins.
As for the ROH? Well, if the criteria is Canton, so be it. He's a lock for that.
Personally, I won't attend any ceremony and will probably take a potty break if it's televised during a game.
I'll give Mr. Favre what he gave us fans...the raised middle finger.

markinmontana's picture

I lean slightly toward wanting Favre's number being retired, for a few reasons...

-After a childhood of watching inconsistent or just plain bad Packer teams, Favre was the face of a sea change for the franchise. Most of the seasons he played were exciting, even if they didn't end in the ultimate goal.

-I hope/think that in the long run Rodger's career will outshine Favre's. However, I think if he wasn't successful and the Packers were struggling right now, the perspective on retiring Favre's number would be different (regardless of how much of a jerk he is).

- Back when I was living in Wisconsin, I heard a lot of gossip from Green Bay friends about Favre's personal ego problems. Like many other celebrities, I just tune it out and assume that an asshole that I would never want to hang out with in a million years on a personal level can still be a part of something bigger that I like (I call this my "David Lee Roth" theory).

Chip Soup's picture

I'd rather see "David Lee Roth" in the ring of honor than Favre right now...

ScottL's picture

IMO,Favre deserves to be in the Packer HOF or Ring of Honor whatever you want to call it. However I always found him to be a phony even at the height of his career when he was at his best. I have never liked him personally but admired him professionally. IMO, the Packer organization would look quite petty if they didn't put him in and would get absolutely crushed by the national media if they chose to go the route of not letting him in. This team is very image conscious and I don't think they'd want to take a media hit like that. jmo.

Mojo's picture

I've stated this before; as much as the dongslinger pissed me off during the second-half of his Packer career, I would have let bygones be bygones. But when he chose to come after the Pack by joining their hated rivals to try and stick it to us he exposed his true character for everyone to see. You can do a lot of things, but nobody better come after my Packers.

Tony's picture

If you don't think the packers should retire Brett's number, you are flat out stupid. You are a dumb human. He damn near singlehandedly brought a crippled franchise back to the elite in ALL OF SPORTS. Yeah, the guy is a dick. So what? He's a super bowl champ and a NFL record holder. Had it not been for Brett Favre, many of us would not care about the Packers. That is the truth.

Dan's picture

If you think Favre was alone in bringing the franchise back you are (how did you put it?). Reggie White was, arguably, more important to the rise of Titletown than #4.

They had a pretty good coach too, if I remember correctly.

Tony's picture

Yup, true. It wasn't just Favre, but he had a huge part of it.

Jason's picture

Without Favre under center would Reggie White have even come to Green Bay? We'll never know but I would guess he wouldn't have.

I have to disagree with Brian here. Favre has his character flaws, but then again so does everybody.

Like others have said without Favre the Packers probably wouldn't be where they are today. We probably wouldn't have Rodgers under center as well.

Retire the number so this whole thing can finally be put to rest.

Oppy's picture

Yup, everyone has character flaws.

But I've never taken to a nationally broadcasted show to try to make my former boss out to be a jerk (and outright lie to the public).

I've also never sent pictures of my junk to a young woman, and proposition massage therapists, while married to my childhood sweetheart

I've never made it my mission to play for the ultimate rival of the team I supposedly was the heart and soul of.

Everyone has character flaws.. But then, everyone isn't in the Ring of Honor and having their number retired for the Green Bay Packers, either.

That's kinda the point. You're not supposed to just be like everyone else when you get you're number retired. You're supposed to be exceptional.

What Brian's article points out is simple: The end of Favres other wise great career carries with it enough enhonorable behavior that he should not be HONORed with the retirement of his number.

...And please don't start with "America is built on second chances". THat's the worst motto to seep into the American psyche in the last 200 years- it's given young people the idea that you don't have to suffer long term consequences from irresponsible or immoral (or illegal) actions, so, go ahead and act without thinking first- you'll get a second chance!

Oppy's picture


toolkien's picture

Favre got plenty of second chances. He was given a second chance having his beer soaked hide fished off Atlanta's third string. He got another second chance after he accumulated a 78 QB rating after 2.5 years in the QB rating-friendly WCO system. He got yet another second chance after the rehab. And after the second chances finally bore fruit, somehow that translated into free-passes.

Like the free pass after throwing 6 picks in 2001. And the free pass after 2 picks and a fumble in 2002. And another free pass after an overtime pick in 2003. And another free pass after 4 picks in 2004. And yet another free pass all the up to the overtime pick in 2007.

Somehow, in 1997, all Favre's second chances disappeared from the narrative, he was given all the credit. And so the free passes began. Somehow, from that point on, anything that went right was due to Favre and anything that went wrong was somebody/everybody else's fault. And The Legend was built. The Legend that led Favre believe he was above the team.

And the free passes kept on rolling. After Favre threatened to not come back if Sherman was fired (because he didn't want to learn a new playbook!), he got a free pass. Not a cross word from our boys in the Fourth Estate (local sports journalists). When Favre trotted out the "what are they going to do, cut me?" in 2006 - free pass. When he whined "trade me" after the Moss deal didn't go through - free pass. All the boys at the newspapers did was continue with the "What do the Packers need to do to keep Favre happy" monologue. All through 2008 as the shi'ite hit the fan blades did Favre get a free pass from more than half the fan base and the dead tree press.

So, second chances and free passes abounded in the Favre Trail of Tears. To simply say that there is an imperative that Favre have this or that honor essentially justifies that Favre was correct in his over assessment of himself. All those people who inflated his ego all out of proportion are victorious, because in the end we're just supposed to throw our arms wide and forget the three years of whining and the detrimental behavior before the "retirement" and the revenge sought afterward. Favre is washed clean of sins because he is honorable no matter what he said, or how he played, or what behaviors he exhibited. Because he always deserved it. Categorically HAVING to welcome him back without any CONTRITION on his part proves that he was able to whatever he pleased because the outcome was pre-ordained. He WAS above the team. He could drop trou and dump on the G in the middle of Lambeau field and we'd have to applaud and thank him for his extra-special fertilizer. If WE have to rebuild the bridge Favre burned, HE WINS. HE was above the team.

Mojo's picture

Bravo Oppy & Toolkien

John's picture

Yeah Reggie was out there throwing the passes ,I think not .

Tony's picture

We could look at this either way. To me, it's just too tough to look the other way on what he did on the field for so long. Of course I wish he hadn't gone out the way he did. But let's see how everyone feels in a couple years, maybe around the time of HOF speech.

FITZCORE1252's EVO's picture

I tend to think the same way. I don't really care if a guy is a total douche-waffle off the field... Win football games. Sure I'd rather everybody was a solid person with class and morals, but it's just not the case, so I don't get all pissed off about it. In the end, I'd rather have some douches on the team and win, than 53 choir boys who don't. Just my personal feelings.

Shawn's picture

Why do you think Favre got all pissy when he could not have Moss. Because he could not do it on his own. NO ONE can do it on their own, it takes an entire team of well playing individuals. Sure the QB is important but it can be done with just a good QB not a great one. Look at the Giants. You cannot tell me that Eli is even close to the QB that Peyton is, but Eli has more rings. It wasn’t all Favre!!!

Kathy's picture

Just HAD to respond to this ^^.

Reggie White did more to bring the "elite" status back to Green Bay. Without him, our defense would've been putrid. Plus he brought other veteran players to a franchise no player wanted to come to.

I guess I'm just stupid enough to think that the term TEAM means more than one person.

Tony's picture

The term team absolutely does mean more than one person, that has little to do with this. It has to do with ONE player should have his number retired, based on how he played the game and represented the organization.

I don't think anyone's arguing the character and performance of Reggie White.

Dan's picture

I couldn't imagine thinking in 2007 or '08 that his number wouldn't be retired. And I honestly don't know where I stand on this now, but one test I'd think you have to apply to this process is simply, how does he compare to his predecessor and his successor?

Some of it might be luck, having 2 (knock-on-wood) HOF performers in a row. But shouldn't having your number retired, especially in a franchise with as much tradition as Green Bay, be reserved for performances that come along once in a lifetime? Clearly, that's not the case.

longtimefan's picture

Lol @ Tony How would Reggie feel? Howard feel knowing that they didnt have to play, cuz Brett did it all..

I know Brett has stated if it was not for Howard they wouldnt have won the SB

Tony's picture

I think you're missing the big picture here...

dawg's picture

#4 does not deserve to be on the walls of Lambeau, Driver more deserving.
Maybe PHOF, but after MM-TT and Rogers are gone.
Murphy === show some respect!

Ian's picture

Really? An above average receiver deserves to have his number retired more than a HOF QB? Why don't we just rename the Ring of Honor into "Players That Were Really Awesome to the Franchise but Not Necessarily That Great".

toolkien's picture

That "above average" receiver is the all time leading receiver in Packer history. Just like Ahman Green is the all time leading rusher and gainer from scrimmage, which went largely unnoticed because of The Shadow.

Favre played for a long, long time. And he gathered copious personal stats. But isn't that the way of it? HIS stats. HIS streak. HIS records. But the TEAM got washed out with 1993-esque play in the playoffs. HIS interceptions. HIS proclivity to break out Favreball instead of following the system.

Is it sheer coincidence that Favre provided a Cliff's Notes version of his career in MN? The 10-1 start when Favre played within the Holmgren derivative system Childress had in place that went to pieces after Favre and Childress had their tiff circa Nov. 2009? The 7-13 record post-tiff? The down slide after Favre decided Favreball was the way to go - the old proverbial "simplify" Favre always had ready on the tip of his tongue?

Favre's legacy is based on LONGEVITY, not championship caliber play. And yet Driver is just "an above average receiver" when he too has his numbers based on longevity?

Favre had the benefit of some good players and proven offensive system. He ran up some nice cumulative stats. But his championship worthiness is to be questioned. One championship with one of the best teams of the modern era in 1996, and not much else other than a Super Bowl loss is much to crow about. And the NATURE of many of those washouts - embarrassing losses against inferior teams.

Favre has the statistics to be in the hall of fame - as a Fouts caliber QB. ALL the rest of the narrative was fallacy. The process of giving Favre all the credit for anything good, and allocating blame everywhere else when things went bad propelled a Foutsian/Moonian guy somehow to #1 by six lengths. But it was fabricated. The numbers prove it, if one cares to look. Favre's PERCENTAGE of INT's is downright poor to bad. And when he was under mental duress, his penchant to breakout Favreball was always just under the skin. Hence the playoff washouts. EVERY great QB has had washouts, but Favre had more, and of greater severity. The schooling by the Tice led Vikings AT LAMBEAU is just one example.

Rocky70's picture

BF was an embellished & exaggerated product created by the media, the NFL & alot of 'very naive' Packer fans. Sixteen years as a Packer. Eleven playoff teams. One Lombardi trophy.

Was the "BF Era" really all that great? --- Unfortunately, I will always be disappointed in that 16 year period.

packeraaron's picture

"Was the “BF Era” really all that great?"

Compared to the Randy White era? Yep.

lebowski's picture

Hated him playing for the Vikes just to rub it in our faces, but that bone-headed pick that cost them the NFC Championship was well worth it.

Chip Soup's picture

Nobody is stupid for feeling one way or another on this. My view is the HOF is where controversial figures belong; the ring of honor or list of retired numbers is not. Look no further than the comments on this article to see just how controversial this still is. Murphy needs to stall and stall on this until he moves on and TT moves on and then they can let the next management group tackle the controversy with the benefit of time and hindsight.

Bill Albrecht's picture

I have been an avid Packer fan for 75 years. This guy(Farve) is not one of the Packer greats!
Hall of fame, yes. Retired #, no.

Glorious80s's picture

I know this won't happen, but I don't think they should retire numbers. The team prides itself on its history and building a chain of history through the list of players using the various numbers would be one way of doing it. Young players could be inspired by the players that wore the numbers before them.
No doubt, the new draftee, B.J.C. would like to wear #4.
The team has the Packers' Hall of Fame, the Ring of Honor, statues and pillars with photos and city street names. Isn't that enough?
They could resolve this Favre issue by eliminating the retirement of numbers thing.
Eventually they may run out of numbers to retire.

jbovegas73's picture

"Eventually they may run out of numbers to retire ..."

I think that is one of the dumbest things I've read on here ... For a franchise that has only retired FIVE numbers in NINETY+ YEARS; we are a far cry from 'running out of numbers'.


Wiscokid's picture

I'm as pissed off at Brett as the next guy but Brian, I don't like your "where there's smoke, there's fire" mentality. This still is America isn't it? From the look of the comments it looks like you're stirring up a lynch mob.

Who's got the rope?

Denver's picture

#4 had his chance to see his number retired. September 8th, 2008. I was there. He didn't show up.
I have no problem with someone wanting to squeeze every last ounce out of a playing career. #4, needless to say, did everything the wrong way in that quest IMO.
They can retire his number when I'm senile enough to have forgotten him in purple as far as I'm concerned.

marcopo's picture

Sure, we can beat up on Favre. He ended up making that too easy. However, I'm not so sure what the requisites are for having your number retired. If it has anything to do with onfield performance he's a no-brainer. Yes, he became way too big for his britches. We can also thank Sherman for allowing Favre to go where he had no business going. Thompson put a halt to that, but Favre never could go back. But a a Packer he is worthy of having his number retired. Just when, I have no idea.

nunobow aka Benny's picture


Sure, Favre didn't behave "the way I've would have wanted him to" (to put it the nice way).


Favre put Green Bay right back on the NFL map (although with the help of a lot of other highly competent guys - but name me a star who did it all alone!)

No. Favre was not perfect. And there's been times, when I've refused to let my mind "bother" with him... just because he pissed me off so much.


What Favre did from 1992 to at least 1998 is to me worthy of a "number retirement".

Actually - I'm still really really tired of the way that he chose to party ways (I think that HE chose it... not our front office!) - but Favre was still something really really really special to Green Bay.

Seriously, what is the Green Bay Packers in the 1990's if it was not for Favre? In my eyes: Probably the same as they were in the eighties... nothing!

Green Bay is more than any team in the NFL (well, I'm biased, but sue me for it...) a team of history. And if Favre is not a big enough member of that history, so his number will get retired, then I don't get it. Seriously.

Maybe Favre got a little too "large for life (and Green Bay)". But, please, let's not get "too large" for Favre to get his number retired. In my eyes it won't make sense.

If Favre left on a wrong note, then it's all about forgiving on our side. And please don't let us be so bitter that we cannot forgive him for that. It would simply be to sad in my eyes.

Of course Favre should have his number retired... some day. Even though he behaved like an ass when he left.

I can forgive that.


(I love your work, Brian. And I agree with you on a lot of topics. But not on this one.)

toolkien's picture

From '92 to '98? Including the time in '94 he was almost benched for Brunell?

Here's some facts. Favre didn't begin to play reliably at an elite level until the 10th game of the '95 season. I have every passing stat line for everyone who threw a pass since 1992, by passer, in chronological order. While there was a bulge of success at the end of '94, Favre was back to his up and down ways 9 games into the '95 season. The Packers had three consecutive 9-7 seasons, and were 5-4 at that 9 game point in '95, and Favre was sporting the 12th best QB rating for '95 at that point. THEN he went on his mid-90's tear.

And so, for the math impaired, that's 57 games into the Favre Era. But you say Favre "put the Pack back on the map" and he was better than anything that had come before in the Dark Years, eh? It may interest you to know that from '81-'84, also exactly 57 games due to the '82 strike, the Packers scored 160 MORE points? That it was the truly terrible defense that gave up 225 MORE? And that through the first 57 games of the Favre Era the Packers were 32-25, while from '81-'84 they were 29.5-27.5? 2.5 whole games? That's back on the map? That has the feel of being about the same high side that had come before a decade earlier.

And in the early 80's, the Packers had Dickey to Lofton/Jefferson/Coffman as their ONLY positive worthy mentioning? MAYBE Ezra Johnson? Otherwise the defense was terrible, the offensive lines were terrible, the running backs were mediocre to bad, the coaching was terrible, the GM'ing was terrible. And a little later the Packers had Majkowski to Sharpe as the only bright spot. Defenses were generally terrible (the 1990 draft actually netted some decent defensive players and the Pack were mediocre on defense just prior to the Favre Trade). But the offensive lines were still terrible (Mandarich?), the running backs were terrible. The only real bright spots for the Packers were Dickey and Majkowski before both were dismantled behind terrible offensive lines. If you actually saw Dickey play, just imagine what he could have done with the Packers' schemes and players circa '94,'95,'96,'97, the WCO offense with RB's who could rush, catch AND BLOCK, a top quarter of the league offensive line, the consistent top quarter of the league defense. Or Majkowski for that matter, before he got to taste what his spleen tasted like every Sunday.

The reality is IT TOOK FAVRE 3.5 years to finally "get it", and by that time RON WOLF had turned the Packers roster over NINETY-FOUR PERCENT from the last of the Dark Years. It was Wolf who hired Holmgren and brought the WCO system and its fundementals to the Packers. It was the improvements by '93 that brought White to the Packers, and the immediate movement of the Packers Defense to top quarter of the league through '98 (when White was done).

And it was BOB HARLAN who unleashed it all, because without him Wolf doesn't come to Green Bay after having already turned the job down once in '87. It just proves that Harlan got things turned around in two short years, having taken over in '89, making the '91 hiring of Wolf happen.

But it stands as this - Favre did NOT put the Packers back on the map. In fact, he was nearly benched as a drag chute to the proceedings, in 1994. It took over another full year until he FINALLY stopped throwing the ball to the other team, THEN the team went from the playoff borderline (just that little bit better than the '81-'84 Packers) to elite. ALL the changes that were made FINALLY came to fruition AFTER Favre stopped making so many mistakes. Unfortunately, Favre was still prone to making the same type of mistakes, for pretty much the same reasons - the inability to handle the stress - in the playoffs all the way to the end of his career. A fact that anyone should be able to see. He even provided a non-Packer example in 2009 just to prove that it wasn't exclusively the Packers.

But I think most Packer fans would still embrace him, warts and all (at least those who didn't act as if he was the Second Coming and didn't even look for warts), but he decided to be a class A jerk for six years - the last three with the team and three after. He owed the Packers not the other way around, and the backbone of the Packers are the fans. This is true for most teams, but even more so for the Packers because there is no billionaire, crypt keeper owner behind the team - it's the community.

People point out White eventually came back with another team and we still have warm regards for him. BUT, White didn't hand ultimatums to the team every 3 months. White didn't see himself as the de facto GM of the team. White didn't retire and seek REVENGE against the Packers by going to a division rival. White didn't go on Greta three nights in a row and throw the team under the bus. White didn't try to broker free agent deals, and if he did, he didn't moan about it in public. The primary difference is that White was a MAN, while Favre acted like a 13 year old girls with the cramps. Packer fans can take a lot from their heroes, but Favre pushed the envelope WAY too far. For some reason, so many fans, national and local, don't see that (probably because they kept themselves purposefully ignorant), and the local press doesn't seem to get that Favre pushed it way too far. There's a tolerance point that Favre went through - the burning of the proverbial bridge. It's up to him to rebuild it, not us. If we HAVE TO, Favre is in essence proven right all along.

Otto's picture

"You're dead to me now." as Michael Corleone looks out over Lake Tahoe and Fredo sits crying, is what comes to mind every time that treasonous [email protected]$%^&* is brought up.
I can deal with the fact that he's a pervert. I can't deal with him calling other teams in the division to tell them how to the beat the Packers or manipulating circumstances to play for the #1 rival. The thought of him being "honored" in anyway by the organization turns my stomach.
He's Green Bay's version of Julius Rosenberg. Sadly, the Packers don't have a Neri to take Brett fishing.

Kevin's picture

As I read all these posts, can't help but think if we would even argue whether or not to retire his number if he never played for the Vikings? My personal thought is that if he wants his number retired he better do a big public apology to the Packers and their fans!!! As it stands now, I want to see him in the Packer Hall of Fame but no retirement of his number!!!

Otto's picture

I live in the greater Twin Cities area which made it even worse. Having to put up with the worst, most fickle fans in sports acting arrogant was terrible. Coupling that with Brett Rosenberg's evil plan to screw the Packer's (fans) actually working made it the worst year in sports for me.
When they rolled the Cowboys in the playoffs a horrible thought occurred to me, "what if they win the Super Bowl?" The agony of that thought rolling around in my mind for a week was almost too much to bare. Then a peace settled over me at half time of the NFC Championship game. "This is Brett Favre. This is a HUGE game. He will self destruct. He's the KING of the soul-crushing playoff interception!" Of coarse, he delivered. And I got to spend the next year telling anyone who asked me where I'm from, "The new home of the soul-crushing playoff interception." :)

Shawn's picture

Favre was the Football version of Kevin Costner's character in the movie "For Love of the Game". He thought himself to be bigger than the game. If you have not seen it, watch it and see what I mean.

zeke's picture

What's the rush? The Packers retired Ray Nitschke's number 11 years after he quit playing (and five years after he was enshrined in the HoF). What's to lose by waiting until the emotions die down, on both sides? And if it never happens, so be it. Personally, I'd rather it not happen until Hornung's and Forrest Gregg's numbers go up.

Doug In Sandpoint's picture

Until the number is retired I would issue it to the last undrafted free agent signed every year...the Packers "mister irrelevant".

The Packer faithful were cuckholded by him, and I don't see it as possible to overlook his enthusiasm for sleeping with the enemy.

I will always feel like the jilted lover.

Kevin's picture

I would love to see this happen!!!

Barutan Seijin's picture

If anyone deserves it, it's Favre. It looks like the Jilted Girlfriend Syndrome is still pandemic in Packer fandom.

zeke's picture

Of course Favre would be the jilted girlfriend in your scenario, but thanks for trolling.

Cuphound's picture

Well done, Brian. A fine piece.

Richard V.'s picture

Nope don't do it He left

Ian's picture

Love how high and mighty so many posters are on the whole Favre thing. I would guess that over 90 percent would happily switch over to be Vikings fans if someone offered them $12 million. I love the Packers but how would i go home to my family and be able to face them after turning down that kind of money, and yet that's apparently what people thought Favre should do. The whole, "he already had enough" line is bull; fine, he has enough money for the next three generations of Favres, but what about the fourth or fifth generation? The guy wanted to play and someone was willing to pay him a TON of money. It would have been stupid for him to turn it down.

Kevin's picture

Pretty easy to turn it down when the Packers offered him $20 million to stay retired! Last I checked $20 million is more than $12 million!

Ian's picture

Yeah, but not two contracts worth $12mil+...he didn't just play one year.

Point Packer's picture

I totally agree with your article Mr. Carriveau. Brent does not deserve to have his number retired by the Green Bay Packers. I hope to be at Lambeau they day the formal ceremony takes place so that I can boo Burt's ass.

Oh, and going back to the discussion on whether Reggie White was a bigot or not, I'd like to make a quick point. You can disagree with whether or not gay marriage should be legal or whether gays and lesbians should have equal rights,etc. That's fine. But saying things like this...“Homosexuality is a decision, it's not a race. People from all different ethnic backgrounds live in this lifestyle. But people from all different ethnic backgrounds also are liars and cheaters and malicious and back-stabbing.".....makes you bigot.

Lucky953's picture

Thanks for the article Brian. What a great debate this is. As a loyal fan for 50 years, I don't think Favre deserves to have his number retired. Even though these are all men with "character flaws," high honors should be reserved for those we (at least) believe we can look up to for the values they represent. These are the heroes we put forth to the next generation. These should be the exemplars we should want to follow. That we are occasionally disappointed, even disillusioned, does not mean we should give up our ideals. Sadly, Brett Favre has failed the test. He belongs in the HOF for his outstanding achievements as a player, but not in the Packers Ring of Honor.

John's picture

All of this means nothing ,it's what he did between the lines .i have never seen so much hate .i have been to green bay games since 2002 and it was a joy to be there .since 2009 not so much,green bay has become just like everywhere else,petty bullcrap .as for losing all those games on int's at the end.i for one would rather go out that way then roll over like last season's playoff game .

zeke's picture

Where is it written that the only thing that matters when determining whether someone's number is retired is "what he did between the lines"? There is no hard and fast criteria that has to be met; it is completely subjective. And as for "all those int's at the end", what's your point? That they would have beaten the Giants if only Rodgers had started playing hot potato with the ball?

Favre was a great QB with off-the-charts intangibles (competitive, leadership, etc.) who acted like sort of a jackass (or worse, depending on what you make of the Jenn Sterger story) at the end of his career. Plus, at the end of it all he has exactly the same number of championship rings as Trent Dilfer. The point being that his inclusion in the ring of honor is hardly above debate.

I haven't been to Lambeau in years, but my brother has assured me that it hasn't yet turned into Thunderdome. But if people are still so wound up about this that Lambeau really is now a seething cauldron of hate, maybe that's a sign that it is too early to have this discussion.

Ian's picture

Really? we're going to denigrate a first ballot HOF QB because he only has one Super Bowl ring? That's the argument for him maybe not deserving inclusion?

zeke's picture

Obviously not, since that isn't what I said. There are plenty of other arguments, many of which are made on this thread. That's the point. If being in the hall of fame was the criteria, his number would be retired without question. As would Henry Jordan's, James Lofton's, Paul Hornung's, etc. But it's not.

Chad M's picture

Really? Everyone loved Brett while he was here... Now 1/2 of you act like jilted lovers. No one is perfect... But no Brett, no Superbowl victory, no resurgence of the Packers, no refurbished stadium... He should be in the HoF and they should retire his number... And everyone needs to move on from this stupid waste of time argument. Sometimes divorces get a little ugly, but he still was Amazing.

toolkien's picture

And you can say the same about Bob Harlan, and Ron Wolf, and Mike Holmgren, and Reggie White. Why does Favre get all the credit from people like you? Do you think ANY of this happens without Bob Harlan? It is he who made the changes necessary to bring the Packers into the modern era, from the backward oversight of townie team presidents. Ron Wolf had a 30 pedigree before he even stepped foot into Lombardi Avenue, had a big impact on the Raiders teams that won over two generations. Where would the Packers have been without HIM and the 94% roster changes he made from 1991 to 1996? Where would the Packers, AND BRETT FAVRE, be without Holmgren bringing the WCO system direct from the fountainhead Walsh? Why don't expound on those other folks too.

And also consider that quarterbacking wasn't the Packers' main problem. The Packers are the only team in NFL history, as of this time, to have had FOUR different QB's throw for over 4,000 yards, Dickey (who led the league in '83), Majkowski, Favre, and Rodgers. Consider that the Packers almost benched Favre for Mark Brunell in 1994, Brunell of a 45-19 record from 1996-1999, two AFCCG and two pro-bowls over that time. So it would seem that QB'ing, BEFORE AND DURING FAVRE'S tenure, wasn't what was ailing the Packers, it WAS EVERYTHING ELSE. And once the Packers board of directors (and executive committee) realized that an owner of five hardware stores didn't qualify somebody to run an NFL franchise, they hired Bob Harlan and everything fell into place - Harlan to Wolf to Holmgren to Favre to White and the 94% changeover in the roster by 1996.

THAT is what put the Packers "back on the map" and we'd be more than happy to honor Favre for his contribution. But he was a class A jerk for 6 years, and for that reason, a large portion of the fan base isn't in an honoring mood, even now, nor will they likely be 2 year's time.

It is people like you who truncate the front end and lop off the back end, and overlook all the INT's - regular and post season - and then look at what's left and hand 1/2 of '95, '96, and '97 Favre ALL THE CREDIT for 20 years of Packer success. It's fallacious, and it's a product of over-hype, and it's an indicator of a simple mind bent by a consistent line of B.S. You are a product of the purposeful revision circa 1997. There is no way on this God's green earth that the narrative circa '92-'95 gave Favre ALL THE CREDIT because no one was dumb enough to think so. Favre got downgraded for his mistakes and rightfully so. He got proper credit for his upside and got his proper discredit for his downside. But suddenly in '97, Favre got all the credit. The Legend was hatched. Jerseys needed to be sold, and mugs too. Everyone in the exploding sports media needed a storyline, and hyping Favre from his Foutsian HoF status to beyond Montana and Unitas by six lengths began. And uncritical thinking folks such as yourself spew the line back, even after so much proof has presented itself (such as the fired HC's in the wake of the Greatest QB Of All Time and the Pack somehow managing to be the best team in the league post Favre).

If Favre was never pushed beyond his Foutsian caliber, and he had remained even reasonably grateful to the team that made him who he was, and the narrative had not been so horribly distorted, and Favre hadn't burned his bridges, we'd be more than happy to honor him commensurate with his play for the team. But that's not the case. He thought himself the de facto GM, viewing of the Greta interviews and the 2009 interview where he said he "mistrusted" Ted Thompson for "drafting two QB's and closing the door on me" it is obvious that Favre thought he had control over player retention, coaching retention/interviewing, free agent brokering, and final sign off on drafts even in retirement. Fouts nor Moon had that kind of cache. I'm not saying Favre shouldn't have gotten some consideration for his star power, but he went way beyond the breech, formulated his resentments over NOT being able to be the de facto GM, and he hatched his plots for revenge for his resentments birthed from his febrile mind.

The long and the short of it is Favre had the body of iron giant and the mind of a chick with her cramps. He was never the most well constructed person mentally and it affected his on field play as far as championship form (versus a stat collector) and it informed his relationships, basically leading him to burn his legacy. We didn't take it from him. He shoved it in our faces and lit it on fire. If he has no compulsion to mend the bridge, I don't see why we categorically have to either. The ball is in his court.

zeke's picture

^^ What he said.

PackRat's picture

Could you just imagine what Brent will sound like in his acceptance speech? Who really thinks it will be to thank all the amazing people in the Packer organization who put him such a tremendous position to have such a great career as a Packer and who thinks it will be another forum for him to expouse how poorly he was treated.

MakinDay's picture

I love Bret Favre. But that emotion has limits. How much do you love your ex-wife? I was the captain of my high school football team. One of my most inspiring speeches was “F*** (the guy from the other team)!” When I made that speech, he played for us. Team/Family matters. It matters. When I look though my Packer Favre album, I adore the good times. There were many. So many. But he decided he did not want to spend his life with us. And I had trouble moving on. But then came Aaron Rodgers. My position, forever, is: After we retire Aaron Rodger’s #12… then, and only then, we consider Favre.

FITZCORE1252's EVO's picture

You're not the 'Star Canadian Linebacker' that calls into 'the jungle'... Are you?

If one person gets it... Worth it!

Colin's picture

"...just to have sex with her, it's not worth it"

FITZCORE1252's EVO's picture

Nice Colin!

dullgeek's picture

I do not consider myself a Favre defender, but I don't understand the anger still held for him. I'm not saying it's unjustified. I just don't share it. Personally, I think Favre's number does deserve to be retired. I'm also glad (in retrospect) that TT made the tough call that he did. Although, at the time, when the Packers had just been 13-3 and a play away from the Superbowl, I thought their best chance for that season was Favre.

That Favre still wanted to play was something understandable to me. I never once thought it was anything more than that. But I didn't live through the 24x7 media coverage in WI. I saw quite a bit less coverage from NC. So maybe I missed something important. Still, for me, from a distance, the events of that summer did not cause me to bear any anger towards him.

I've long assumed that his number would be retired. I really don't think anyone else should wear #4 again. The number has too much history to be given to anyone else. Perhaps they silently retire the number. That'd be fine too. I just don't want to see it on the field again. And that's really the only standard I have for whether or not a number should be retired.

My $0.02. Disagreement encouraged.

Rob's picture

Dullgeek, I don't think anybody was offended that Favre wanted to keep playing. When he took the field in Week 1 in a Jets uniform, it was just weird.

For me, the residual bitterness comes from

* The spite he showed towards the Packers and by association, the fans.

* It was the phone calls with the Vikings when he hoped the Packers would just release him.

* It was his petulance following the behind-the-scenes meddling where he demanded trades for Moss or that the Packers hire Steve Marriucci.

* It was the Fox News appearance where he said his motivation was to "stick it to Ted."

* It was calling up Matt Millen to give the Lions pointers on beating the Packers.

* It was manipulating of the NFL's retirement system and Jets salary cap in order to get released so he could spitefully sign with the Vikings.

* It was him saying that "real Packer fans would understand" questioning the loyalty of those who didn't take his side.

* It's telling the Bears to go take out the Packers in 2010.

* It's the passive-aggressive shots he takes at Rodgers saying things like "I'm surprised it took him so long to win a Super Bowl with all of that talent," while failing to recognize the irony that he's praising the talent Ted put together which is why he often got upset in the first place.

In short, Favre has never let it go, and as long as he's spiteful towards the team, there are those who will be spiteful towards him. I absolutely think they should retire his number, but not until after Rodgers has at least one more Super Bowl Ring.

MarkinMadison's picture

Very well put Brian. I agree with every word. Well, not the typos, but all of the other words. Well, if you keep all of them in the present order. Except the typos I mean. :-)

Dave's picture

It was a divorce, and divorces aren't pretty. You can't get past them until you learn to put all the anger and struggle behind you. You have to turn the corner before you can move on, and you have to do that before you can heal.

For this situation, retiring the number is event that starts the healing.

Stevie B's picture

They should retire the number zero with his name.

Charlu19's picture

I'm 30 years old... I remember being in Mauston when Yancey Thigpen dropped the ball in '95 to clinch the NFC Central... Remember my Dad on the verge of tears in '96 when we won it... I remember when Favre's Dad passed away and crying when he had 4 TD and 311 yards in the first half... All those great memories were washed away when we saw his true colors in 2007... He has ALOT of work to do before I forgive him for his douchebaggetry from 2007-2011... The Franchise always comes first and he did everything possible to piss on our good name... PS: Thompson was RIGHT!!!

bomdad's picture

My realization on this, when you think of all the things Favre "did for the franchise over the years" you have to realize that he really did it for himself. Now every athlete is in it for themselve ultimately, but I agree with Brian that this honor should be withheld for more deserving characters. If there was any evidence of this flawed characteristic, look no further than how quickly we've embraced Aaron Rodgers.

Terry's picture

Brian, I agree 100%! Brent's number does not belong up there with Don Hutson, Tony Canadeo, Bart Starr, Ray Nitschke and Reggie White. It's not even close. Brent's constant flip flopping about retirement brought extra atention to Brent, but put the Packers in a position where they had to start thinking about the future. They draft Aaron Rodgers and Brent didn't like that at all. Well DUH Brent, did you think they were going to wait until you were gone to start grooming the qb of the future? You probably did think that because you're Brent and in your opinion bigger than the franchise. How dare TT draft a qb and not sign Randy Moss or do anything else Brent wanted.

Then the whole I know I can still (boo hoo)play.I just don't want to (boo hoo) anymore. Because Ted won't do what I tell him to do. Boo frickin Hoo! Thank you for doing your job Ted and pretty much telling Brent to do his.

I am glad Brent is gone and I do not believe #4 should be retired. I would like to see it be given to a punter, FG kicker or used for practice squad players.

I truly wish Brent would have stayed the carefree, play like a kid, small town Brett Favre we were used to. He didn't and turned into a jerk I refer to as Brent.

I do however need to give Brent kudos for one thing. Had Brent just come out and say I'll play for another 2 or more years TT might have waited another year or so to draft a qb and could have missed out on drafting Aaron Rodgers. Thanx for that Brent!

Bohj's picture

If there is even one person that would boo the decision to retire the jersey then the answer seems obvious. The fact that half the fan base would boo the decision should end this debate. Pretty sure the other names on that list were unanimous. Why can't the hof be enough? That seems appropriate to all of you. It's favres deal that this is even being debated. He made some choices. Some of those choices means he will probably not have his number retired. And we'll all live with it. The end.

will's picture

IMO, all the state of WI wants from Brett is for him to publicly say that he made some mistakes and would have dont things differently if he could do them over again, ala Lebron and the Decision. All of WI deep down wants to forgive him for his past transgressions. If he can not recognize that he flipped off the Pack and its fans, then there is no reason to retire his number. He straight up told Chi Bears J. Peppers to beat the Pack. He played for the Vikings, games in which I was pulling my hair out praying we beat his a$$. Does that sound # retirement worthy? If he holds a grudge then he should [email protected]# off.

Franklin Hillside's picture

Who's Favre?

mike's picture

Wow!Lot of people on here need to get over it. Yeah he made a big mistake but its over and done with. Dont forget the 16yrs he gave the franchise played ever game and if it werent for him the seller dweller years would have continued through the 90's. for god sakes people grow up. the game is a buisness and Teddy didnt want him anymore and there was bad blood between them two and thats what brought all this on. I look at it like he won us many playoff games and a super bowl. I know there is anger with the whole viking thing to but he never won a damn thing there so who cares.

Franklin Hillside's picture

Maybe you are the one who needs to get over it and not forget the general douchebaggery.

I will not grow up for your god's sakes. I don't respect him, and he has forsaken me.

EinEC's picture

Favre is the most entertaining athlete I have ever seen play any sport. Period. Easy with the grudge holding everyone, you'll give yourself a aneurysm. Retire his number in week one of this's obvious.

Franklin Hillside's picture never watched Jimmy Chitwood then.

fish/crane's picture

Getting a bit sick of inflamatory journalism...but guess that gets the comments. Not retire Favre's number? Give me a break.
A competitive athlete that isn't perfect?
They should learn from the perfect posters on CHTV.

CSS's picture

It's an opinion piece expressing one individuals point of view, and appropriately placed under a running sub-section of articles clearly titled 'Point of Veau'. He's pretty clear that there's no investigative angle, no appeal to authority or even an opinion shared by other CheeseheadTV writers. He's clearly stating it as an opinion, not fact.

PackersRS's picture

Why thank you!

P.S.: Don't blame Brian. There're 140 (including mine) comments in here and not a single one made by him.

Tom Sapp's picture

Go ahead and retire it. Take the high road. It'd probably piss him off anyway. He still holds a grudge just by the way he's acting with the rookie QB Coleman. Coleman said he prcticed with him all winter and after the Pack drafted him Farve hasn't talked to him. Retire it and move on.

Jim's picture

Well, if you are gonna retire Favre's, why not retire Hornung's, as well? Great player between the lines, instrumental in championships, just a total dirtbag otherwise. Same criteria. Sorry, but Favre's shenanigans really make you think: If you retire his number. what about Hornung?

Ray's picture

I would like to know what somebody outside of Packer Nation feels about this. I remember Montana/Young situation and agreed with San Fran for going with Young at that time. I feel the Packers were in the same type situation with Favre/Rodgers. Not being a 49er's fan I believe retiring Montana's 16 would be right for that team. I would like to hear a non biased opinion about #4 being retired in Green Bay.

fatalflaw's picture

I would give N.4 jersey to maybe my punter, or better yet, 3rd string QB. Then in a few years I'd say, 'OK, we're going to retire his number in September'. Few weeks later I'd 'change my mind'. Then I'd say February,....well you get the idea. When I FINALLY decide to REALLY retire it, I'd do it in a perfunctory 5 minute ceremony in the last five minutes of halftime.

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