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The list reads like a who's who among NFL free agents. Steven Jackson was ON THE VERGE of being a Packer. Ahmad Bradshaw would be a GREAT FIT for the Packers. Michael Huff would solidify the secondary, right??

And yet, every potential free agent that filled our Twitter timelines with high hopes turned into yet another offseason of dashed dreams for those Packers fans who have not yet been convinced that modern FA market is about as likely to turn your franchise around as bringing in Ari Fleischer for a pep talk.

But, perhaps more than other nondescript Packer offseasons, the concern over the  2013 dearth of big signings has some merit. The Super Bowl Trophy is getting smaller and smaller in the rear-view mirror, and many of the beloved veterans of that team have retired or departed for greener pastures. But most of all, the Packers have been clearly outmatched in the last two post-seasons, and as the saying goes, if you ain't getting better, you're getting worse.

With a growing number of positions on both sides of the ball that we, the casual fan, believe have been unaddressed or underserved the past few seasons, these free agents look like panaceas, cures to our ills. Hey, while I was never big on Jackson, I would love to see Bradshaw as a Packer. And, believe it or not, I always thought Michael Huff was completely misused in Oakland and might have actually been a better player than his draft-bust status would indicate.

But, we all know why the Packers aren't about to go all Charles Woodson/Ryan Pickett this offseason, not that they would anyway. The last time Ted Thompson dipped into the free agent pool for players like that, Twitter wasn't even live yet and Randall Cobb was a sophomore in high school.

The Packers have been clearing cap room to sign the guy who is about to become the NFL's highest-paid player, and that could happen tomorrow or it could happen months from now--whenever  Russ Ball and David Dunn decide to get together and hammer out the complex details of a deal that is pretty much done in everyone's minds already.  We still debate the amount: how much will Rodgers need to establish he's worth more than Joe Flacco's $20M/year deal?  Most conservative Packers fans and pundits seem to hover around $22M/year, but I would be willing to guess it will easily be at least $24M/year, and that's a big deal when you are talking about a guy who is going to be allocated about a fifth of the team's $123M salary cap.

Which means, until that time, we get to watching the annual ritual of winning Super Bowls on paper, watching other teams celebrate the sacrifice of their precious salary cap space by overpaying semi-valuable players to fill the holes on their roster.

There's reason to be concerned, to be sure. I wrote about the conundrum that the Packers are faced with, a similar pickle that every successful team eventually faces: paying their stars so much that there's less and less money for the rest of the team.  Every player the Packers have parted ways with since the Super Bowl have been just a little bit closer to the bone each time.

But as Steven Jackson signs for $4M a year, Greg Jennings for $9M a year, and Michael Huff for $2M a year, the Packers must preserve every million they can to keep Rodgers, eventually sign Clay Matthews, and hope they have enough to keep BJ Raji later on. It's a culture of budgeting and sacrifice, much different than the draft-and-develop-from-within days of Thompson's early years.

But perspective is important, and for those of you who still bemoan the lack of free agent signings, our day is coming. The Packers will announce a deal that will likely keep Aaron Rodgers as the face of the franchise for the foreseeable future, as well as making him the richest player in the league.

And every one of those teams that signed a free agent this season will look at the Packers and, for a moment, forget the guaranteed Super Bowl that their acquisition brought them and wish they could be the ones with Aaron Rodgers for $25M. Just as at least 23 teams wish they had drafted him in 2005 (and another eight teams wish they had traded up), they will look at the Rodgers re-signing as the coup of the offseason.

Perception is reality. And the reality is that no matter how you slice it, Aaron Rodgers is the most valuable "free agent" in this offseason. Is one Greg Jennings to the Vikings worth one Aaron Rodgers on the Packers? Nowhere near. How about the Bears agreeing to forego Martellus Bennett for Rodgers instead? No contest.

This is what modern free agency is at its core. The true superstars never reach the point where another team could acquire them. Teams like the Lions, who squander every opportunity to draft and develop talent like Rodgers or Matthews, can only salivate at the idea of having players of their ilk on their roster.

What does the future hold for a Rodgers-laden Packers? Is he, at $25M/year, the guarantee of a future Super Bowl that those other teams are praying their free agents will bring to them? Perhaps not. But the Packers are keeping the superstar in the fold, keeping their marketing advantage intact, and--most importantly--giving themselves the best chance at winning another title.

Does Mike Wallace bring the Dolphins that kind of power-up? Nowhere near.

While most Packer fans don't need a reminder to trust Ted Thompson, or that Aaron Rodgers is a special player who has had a career arc unlike any other player in the history of the NFL, if you're getting in any way anxious as the free agents continue to bite the dust without signing with Green Bay, relax.

The biggest signing--yes, bigger than Joe Flacco and bigger than Tony Romo--is coming up soon. And the Packers and their fans will be the biggest winners.


C.D. Angeli is a longtime Packer fan and feature writer for Cheesehead TV. He is also the co-host of the weekly Packers podcast Cheesehead Radio and good cop over at Follow him on Twitter at @TundraVision.


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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (161) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Bryan's picture

Packers fans are looking for additions to the roster that will improve the team from the one they have seen in the playoffs the last two seasons. Rodgers was already on those teams.

Morgan Mudane's picture

I agree. We have Rogers and Mathews under contract. There were some very fine defensive ends available this year and cheaply due to there being so many.
I agree that a Jackson was just an aberition and he was looking at a bidding war but there was some real help out there lurking and we sat back, sat back while our rivals filled critical positions. Everybody forgets, the Lions, Vikes and Bears also get to draft and before us.
So we did nothing to help this team and have 7 very late round picks. Big deal. Mathews and Rogers are two guys. There is no supporting staff to help them.

Harland O. Dog's picture

Nothing more needs to be said. Thank you.

Denny - ATL Packer Owner's picture

I just want to express my appreciation of Mr. Angeli's Packer "Perspectives". Whether I agree, as I do with the Rodgers article, or do not as in some prior articles; the "Read" is always GREAT! THANK YOU Mr. Angeli for sharing your unique writing talent i tne "Perspectives" on this site.

RayRhodes86's picture

Awesome stuff CD. Great work!

cow42's picture

you're making it sound like it's a good thing that the team is going to have to dump 20% of it's salary on one guy.

in my opinion - it's not.

i don't care if the guy's a combo of joe montana, jim brown, jerry rice, and lawrence taylor... 20% of all the $ is too much. there's no way to build a quality team with what's left.

this is why i'm so high on the 49'ers. they are in a perfect situation. their qb is awesome and doesn't cost a bazillion dollars. they can afford to put together an all star team around him.

big time players get way too much $ right now... it's like having the #1 pick... sounds cool... but it's actually a curse... what can you do? not sign rodgers? yeah - right... he could ask for $50mil/yr and they'd have to do it.

things will have to change. the teams that are going to be the most successful are the ones that can DE-value the qb position... run a system that isn't so qb-centric.

it's cool that rodgers is going to be around for a long time... it's just sort of sad that it means that we probably won't get to celebrate any more championships while he's here.

Mojo's picture

Agree with Cow's first two paragraphs. Having to spend 20% of the cap on one player is not a good thing. However, it's not the deathknell he makes it out to be. It can be managed, but it just makes things harder.

I'm getting tired of hearing people proclaim how great it is that the Packers will be paying the highest contract in NFL history to keep him. What was great was the last few years having him at a price well below his true value. This is not baseball,where if you have the cash you can pay anyone anything you want. With a hard cap comes consequences. In some baseball towns you can add or retain players A,B & C. In the NFL you have to chose among them.

Outside of the Packers keeping a great player they already had on the roster, this is bad thing.

Chris Davis's picture

It is sorry that we have to do this deal. We will have a great QB but no way to pay the players around him. Then, if it is an extended deal, and he gets hurt then where do we end up? Reminds me of the 80'S.

Stroh's picture

What it means is that after you pay your QB that outrageous amt you better damn well have a GM and coaching staff adept at the draft and develop model! Thankfully the Packers have the best in the business when it comes to draft and develop. Look at all the draft picks that the Packers have that are home grown! Bemoan Perry cuz he was hurt but even if he wasn't he has to develop as a 34 OLB. Theres alot of young talent, and soon there'll be even more on the Defensive side of the ball.

Packers are and will remain draft and develop to the core! Perry, Manning, House, Shields, Hayward, Neal, Worthy, McMillan will all be ready to take on playmaking roles on D. Offense begins and ends w/ Rodgers and his targets. FInley is 26, Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Green will help Rodgers on offense. And Thompson has invested OT to protect Rodgers.

WHen you have a QB of Rodgers stature and have to pay him as such, like the Packers are now going to do. You better keep bringing in talented young players to replace other talented older players. You keep the core playmakers and the others come and go.

Its difficult for sure, but its the way the NFL is when you have an elite QB and you don't win the SB without an elite QB. Just have to keep bringing in talent and developing that talent.

Rocky70's picture

"Perry, Manning, House, Shields, Hayward, Neal, Worthy, McMillan will all be ready to take on playmaking roles on D."

And you know this how ..... ??

Hopes & dreams. (Be careful --- you'll fall off your soapbox giving that same speech over & over & over).

cow42's picture

“Perry, Manning, House, Shields, Hayward, Neal, Worthy, McMillan will all be ready to take on playmaking roles on D.”

i'll give ya hayward... maybe shields... maybe perry.
the rest are just guys - definitely NOT playmaker material.

"FInley is 26, Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Green will help Rodgers on offense. "

finley and green are garbage.
also - finley and jones will probably be gone after this year... because rodgers will be getting all of their money.

"Thankfully the Packers have the best in the business when it comes to draft and develop. "

last 3 drafts have resulted in 4 legit starters...

hayward in the biz?

Stroh's picture

No one ever thought Bishop would be a playmaker either. And Manning is a much better athlete than Bishop. Collins took 3 years to become a playmaker, McMillan has a chance. Neal had 4.5 sacks in limited minutes, compared to Jenkins 7.5 playing alot more.

You just spewing the same negative Crap!

Stroh's picture

Same way you think none of them will! And they don't all have to be playmakers. You really only need a couple on each side of the ball. One playmaker at each level is more than enough and even 2 is probably enough.

Charlie M's picture

@cow "this is why i’m so high on the 49?ers. they are in a perfect situation. their qb is awesome and doesn’t cost a bazillion dollars. they can afford to put together an all star team around him."

And if Kapernick wins a sb, sb MVP, and league MVP in the next 2 years, where do you think the 9ers will be cap-wise? Do you think they'll pay Kapernick 20+ million/yr? Or do you actually think they have/ will come up with some magical formula that the Packers haven't thought of?

madmanJack's picture

they'll be able to keep all their top 15 draft picks for the last 10 years because the GM is so much smarter than ours. those guys will take less to stay with the Niners.....where do these whiners come from anyway.....Mars?????

mark's picture

by the time Kaep does that (2-3 years) he'll sign for $30mil and people will be talking about what a steal the rodgers deal was.

signing rodgers, this year, to a fat, long term contract is good business and it's great news for the green bay packers.

plus, let's wait to see the deal and how it's structured before rushing to judgement.

Fish/Crane's picture

DE-Value the quarterback... I see that coming. WIth running quarterback systems having interchangeable parts a team may have five backs that can each play "the quarter".

I see this as the future of the NFL-as defending against a constant run throw option will force defensive changes.
...a return to the 20's and 30's - and like Cow says, no 20% of salary for one man.

Charlie M's picture

The qb will never be devalued. The guys with the necessary skill sets are kind of hard to find. But yeah we'll just go get 5 of them and interchange them? Huh?

Fish/Crane's picture

Well no roster will have five West Coast quarters but they may have five who could play the quarter in triple option systems. The system may become greater than one player...and this is the change that cometh with super athletes at quarterback like RG3 and Kaepernick.

2 share owner's picture

bahahaha, yes Fish/Crane this is far more likely to happen than having most Super Bowl winning teams with one highly talented, highly paid Quarter. Come on Man!

Stroh's picture

How many superathlete QB's have won a SB? Tarkenton? none. Vick? none. Vince Young? nope.

RG3, Kaep and Wilson havent yet either. Whats gonna happen is every time they try to run a read option play, as soon as they fake something they are fair game and Defenses age gonna hit them every chance they get. How long are these franchise's gonna wanna see their franchise QB's getting their asses hit and dragging themselves off the ground? They won't!! Then they'll have to become nothing more than passers and not a one of them is nearly the passer of Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees.

How's RG3 gonna respond next year w/ his knee all bound up in a brace? He's gonna stay in the pocket. But go on and tell me again how Kaepernick has revolutionized the NFL already (even w/o a SB or anything to his credit)!

A superathlete at QB that has to be a pocket passer is no longer a superathlete, he's just another passer!

cow42's picture

stroh -

"How many superathlete QB’s have won a SB? "

none of the players you mentioned are as good as kprnk is / will be.

oh - and you forgot steve young.

Shawn's picture

The 49rs are going to have to give that little prick of a QB they have there a huge pay day soon because his contract ends in 2015. Then where will they be? Loosing some of their all star cast to make room.

cow42's picture

i guess that's one way to look at it...

"don't worry about those darn 49'ers. Packers'll take care of 'em 3 seasons from now (even though they will have already collected 2 SB rings)."

2 share owner's picture

Who said we are not worried about them? We probably do not dream about them every night, please leave this site cow you, are a cancer. Your poor wife how can she do it?

Stroh's picture

Just like the Iggles did when they thought they were close and went on a spending spree to put them over the top? How did that work out for them?

cow42's picture

comparing that eagles team and this 9'ers team is ridiculous.

49'ers haven't gotten good by going on a "spending spree". they got to where they are by making outstanding draft picks.

just stop being such a homer and admit that the 49'ers right now and for the foreseeable future are a much more talented team than the Packers.

why is this so hard for you?

Stroh's picture

Making outstanding draft picks in the top 10 for a decade that is. Unlike Thompson who's had 2 top 10 picks. Its ALOT more difficult to find those great players drafting in the 27-32 range, than it is the top 10!

Remind me again how Kaepernick has revolutionized the NFL... I need a good laugh!

cow42's picture

"Remind me again how Kaepernick has revolutionized the NFL… I need a good laugh!"

guess we'll just have to wait and see.

by the way - it's not the read/option that concerns me... it's the player that does.

i don't see any way to stop him.

right now his options are 1) check first receiver 2) run. and with only that he's destroying people. imagine what he'll be like once he's able to go through his progressions.

i'm surprised you don't see how great he is/is gonna be.

Morgan Mudane's picture

Could not agree more. To piggy back on what you said, were already seeing the problem: passing up quality free agents who could fill holes because we have to save the money for two guys. Mathews and Rogers will command 41% of the total salary for this team.
TT knows you cannot have any other star type players because their is no money so were going to be filling this team with wanne be football players for years to come.

Jamie's picture

Anyone know the cap ramifications if we just cut him? Maybe if we start over we'll get lucky and find a guy like Flacco.

dawg's picture

9ers, Hawks, and Lanta, better shape than PACKERS contract wise $$, and player development/additions! Understand!
We have four areas of concern That need to be addressed! not to mention veteran leadership!
LT, OLB, S, RB !
Lets hope TT can fill one of those needs in FA, because the draft won't fix all these needs!
Capers is also on the line, this D is giving up way to much yardage!
Kevin Green, said Nick Perry needs to come back and change his mindset, What?
Perry don't fit this D!, and plays soft! Perrys a D bust !

Stroh's picture

Hey its cow reincarnate in another animal! Go figure!

cow42's picture

a lot of people (animals?) share my opinion on a lot of Packer-related topics.

Morgan Mudane's picture

Dawg! Your way to kind. I personally think last years draft was a total busts for the Pack. TT is no genius and the so called evaluators suck.
Perry was not rated highly. He was rated at the end of round one at best and possibly a two.
Now this is a guy who played for USC. So he's on a top team to begin with, with a lot of good support players next to him.
James Worthless is even worse. He should not have been picked as a two. The analyst said he had the ability to go un-noticed in games at MSU. He did the same last year for the Pack. Oh, BTW, the Vikes had three rookies make the pro bowl.

Beep's picture

Jury is out on Perry. Worthy will be solid but not spectacular. Casey Hayward will be a pro-bowler next year and many years to come. Manning wasn't healthy.

Calling the entire 2012 draft a bust is so short-sighted its comical.

ohenry78's picture

To those complaining about Rodgers eating too much cap space: get over it.

That's what it takes to keep a great QB on the roster these days. No way around that.

And while it may be tougher to build the team with that much less cap space, let me ask you this: would you rather that they take Graham Harrell (or bring in some other former backup) and have them stock up on talent elsewhere? Ask Minnesota, Arizona, Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Kansas City, or Oakland if you want to know the answer.

Building a championship team in today's NFL requires a great QB, thus great QB's have high leverage, thus they demand big salaries. Them's the breaks.

tundravision's picture

Really, that's the debate that swings me over to reality. Buffalo has plenty of cap space. The Packers have plenty of talent. Which would you rather have?

mark's picture


aaron rodgers is --potentially-- the greatest football player of all time. crazy concept: you want him on your football team.

guys, forget the teams without QBs. rodgers will make marginally more than Flacco and Romo will make. think about that for a second. mull it over.

whatever he signs for will be a steal. just be happy.

cow42's picture

1. the Packers have more talent than Buffalo but i wouldn't say they have "plenty of talent".

2. what's the difference? neither team is a SB contender. actually - i don't think it's out of the question to think that the Bills and Packers could have similar records at the end of the season... go look at each team's respective opponents..

ohenry78's picture

Wow, neither team is a SB contender? Not even one that just won the division and is still consistently in the playoff hunt? That's a bit delusional.

And you can debate whether the Packers have "plenty of talent" all you want, but that wasn't the point. The point is that you can have all the talent that you want at the other positions and if you don't have a great QB to drive the machine you'll fail every time.

Morgan Mudane's picture

Your partially corect a mundo. Here's the problem. If your QB is surrounded by talent and you got the bucks to pay him fine.

The problem with the Pack. They let two pro bowlers go: Wells and Jenkins, a top receiver leave Jennings and now have a roster full of needs at running back, line backers, defensive ends, defensive backs. Just when you need to be spending filling holes your forced to give all the money to two people already in the team, Mathews and Rogers. That is the big problem facing the pack. No money to get help.

stevehj's picture

As a lifelong Packer fan that grew up watching the glory years and then endured through the era of playoff drought, I cannot complain about how the Pack runs their team. As much as I wish we would win the SB every year, its not too realistic. But we have the best quarterback in the league to watch every Sunday. And we previously had the best quarterback in the league to watch every Sunday. Wow, life is good and will continue to be in the foreseeable future. I look forward to next year with hope and anticipation. I want to win another SB, but if they don't it sure is great to watch them play. CD is so totally right, we fans are truly the biggest winners!

cow42's picture

the actual title of this article should be...


madmanJack's picture

ask the raven fans that and the steelers and the eagles and so on and on and on. whiners!

2 share owner's picture


Sam's picture

Cow, if the niners don't win soon but kap keeps playing well how are they going to keep him and that entire o line? Because that's the strenght of the niners, and a good majority of them will be due phat contracts right before kap's big deal. The niners will have our problem in a couple of years as well as the Seahawks if they're lucky maybe they'll have a Super Bowl but that's not guaranteed. And that's not even counting the niners D

cow42's picture

they will win soon.

Stroh's picture

Just like the Iggles did when they were soo close and spent like crazy to win a SB? They didn't even make the playoff the next year! Going on a spending spree isn't a guarantee of SB, much less regular season success! Signing all the FA wreaks of desperation and the team chemistrty from signing all those FA is crap.

cow42's picture

there is no comparison between the eagles and the 49'ers.

Jay's picture

Kaepernick, Iupati, Davis, Crabtree, Gore are all free agents after 2014 season. That gives them 2 years to get to the SB and win.

Question: how frequently has a team lost the Super Bowl and gotten back in the next two years (since, say, 1990)? 0. Your confidence that the unprecedented will happen is astounding.

Jay's picture

Sorry, it has happened: the Bills. I stand corrected.

Morgan Mudane's picture

Your correct. and we can't because the two players who we need to keep will take all the money.
What I don't get is how are the Lions getting all this top free agent talent this year and still have 6 low first round picks on this team. Where are they getting the bucks. You only can spend so much so where is the Packers money at? They haven't paid Rogers or Mathews. They are still making just so so money now.

theskyisfalling's picture

The niners and hawks are lucky to have hit the lottery at qb. They are going to get a couple of years of qb play at much less than market value, just as gb has for the last few years. Rookie contracts can be redone after three years, and will result in huge raises for both cap and wilson.. As much as it sucks, id rather work around the huge deal than have to find a way to work it in next year. Thats how teams get gutted

cpheph1's picture

Kudos on the article CD!

Point Packer's picture

Sorry Aaron Nagler. I really do apologize. And I'm sorry.

Cow, go f#$&% yourself, you are an obnoxious idiot. Why are you an idiot? Because we are about to re-sign long-term one of the top three QB's in a pass first run and lose NFL. The other option, not signing him and allowing him to go to another team. Pissing on this personell decision is beyond me. And something only you and maybe Rocky would do.

You are an idiot. Really. You are an idiot. Oh, and Rocky, so are you. You both can go eat shit and die.

Much love,
Point Packer

murphy's picture


/Cow and Rocky are the same person.

2 share owner's picture

Third, Yep I've been saying it for a while now. It is very obvious.

cow42's picture

Point Packer,

all i'm saying is...

"are the Packers better with Rodgers than without? of course.
will giving him 20% of all their $ hurt their ability to improve in other areas? of course."

what's so horrible about this statement?

Stroh's picture

Well if you don't pay the man he won't be in GB will he? And you don't win SB's without a great QB! So you pay the man and draft and develop around him. Kinda like Thompson has been doing for the past 7 years.

The alternative is being stuck in the 70's and 80's again.

cow42's picture

i will say this for the last time...

i am NOT upset that the Packers are going to pay rodgers.... they have no choice.

i AM upset that doing so will most likely take them out of championship contention for the foreseeable future... too much $ to one guy (problem with the system).

jonnygee's picture

The salary cap is set to spike in two or three years (I forgot when it is) because of the new TV Contracts. I think salaries will spike in two or three years as well. Teams like the 49ers will be hit hard when many of their contributors are set to be FAs

Morgan Mudane's picture

Why we can't have it both ways? Don't sign him to a new contract and let him play his guts out the next two years, then offer him up for trade and get a ton of picks for him.
We get his services and get something for him as well to rebuild.

KennyPayne's picture

ARod deserves everything he can get. He really is a great player. Same for Clay he earned his big payday.

But I fail to see how paying Rodgers & Clay a lot more $ improved the Pack's OLine, RB, LB, DLine, S, or Kicker positions all of which were subpar last season.

Morgan Mudane's picture

Now you have the answer to why TT isn't getting any free agents. Plan on this team trading away our one and two and going for a ton of undrafted and 5,6,7th rounders. What else can they do.
They can watch a vastly improved Lions team kick them twice, ditto the Vikes and the Bears at least once for sure. It will be a long season.

packeraaron's picture

<em>They can watch a vastly improved Lions team kick them twice</em>

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Whooo hooo!!!! (wipes tears) Hoooo. Hooooo.

Oh man, that was good.

Clay's picture

Great C.D. and a shout out to Cow42, although we all knew what you would write Cow.

People take for granted that we are about to "acquire" the best QB in football and one who may be in consideration for greatest all-time (admit it, we all thought no one could follow Favre's footsteps in Green Bay, and then we all sit there going, "Holy Sh** I have never seen QBing like that before", AND we are about to acquire arguably a future Hall of Fame defensive player entering his prime.

That's NOT the worst place to be in!!!

The Pack is the envy of about 24 other teamns in the NFL. Get healthy and draft well. Watch what happens.

P.S. That's not being a homer, just common sense.

dawg's picture

The major off season signing to date is a backup kicker, Really!
Guess the cold pizza being served is good enough, your job is not in jeopardy! Carry on.
Get drafted by TT and you have a career in GB.

dawg's picture

TT better pull rabbits out of his hat on draft day!!!

2 share owner's picture

Yep, cause we are coming off a Super Bowl, and 2 divisional round knockouts. With several players coming back from injury and only losing a few players that would not live up to contract status. lol Too funny man. The Pack are a top 5 team and will continue to be as long as we have Ted and Rodgers. Being a top 5 team in any year makes you a Superbowl contender.

cow42's picture


are all better than the Packers.
bengals, redskins, and cowboys might be as well.

don't be fooled by past performance.
just look at the rosters.
all these teams have more talent.

ArodMoney's picture

You're a pretty bad talent evaluator

2 share owner's picture


jmac34's picture

The Giants lost a ton of players this offseason themselves and so did the Ravens, who by the way just payed their QB a ton of money.

jonnygee's picture

The Ravens just purged a ton of talent because they ran out of $, so I wouldn't put them on that list. Also, the Cowboys are going to fall flat on their face this year with their division being the way it is. Otherwise I'd agree; I'd put the packers in the 5-7 range.

FITZCORE 1252&#039;S EVO's picture

Nice piece CD, and I totally agree... Beats the alternative imo. Also, a couple teams with young QB's that came in gangster appear to be in a great position "right now", BUT, time will catch up with the hawks and niners... And when those youngsters are eyeing their second contracts, those teams are going to have to pay... Or they won't have a viable QB. Period. Oh yeah, and let's see what DC's do with an offseason of Read-Option tape... We'll see...

It's the offseason, I'm out. I'll check back come draft week, until then... I need a break from the trash here. The comment section on this site used to be fun, and actually had a sense of community to it. Not so much anymore, the last year or so, more like a sense of Douche. Real shame.


cow42's picture

i guess i don't understand why i'm considered a duche.

i see the counter side to a lot of things... but i'm never condescending and i never personally attack anyone.

go back and re-read my additional post. i don't ever rip the precious Packers. i admit that there's nothing they can do.

what i have issue with is the system. i don't like seeing individual players getting 20%+ of payrolls... that isn't going to work when there's a salary cap involved.

are the Packers better with Rodgers than without? of course.
will giving him 20% of all their $ hurt their ability to improve in other areas? of course.

that's all i'm saying.

2 share owner's picture

never condescending to "the precious Packers". You are a walking contradiction. You even contradict yourself.

cow42's picture

everyone just gets so emotional whenever anything perceived as negative is presented.

remove your preconceptions of me.
try to separate the emotional piece.
now just simply re-read my original post.
afterwards - please tell me what got everyone so upset.

Clay's picture

Because you speak with a certainty that is unwarranted. Also your predictions are true less than half the time (my fav was before the Pack played New Orleans last year, sooo wrong!).

Not to be political but it's like FOX or NBC...we always know what you are going to say.

For this reason we doubt your motive and credibility.

You remind me of the Favre fans who insisted Ted made a mistake going with Rodgers.

Here is my matter what Thomspson does, your predictions will continue to be uniformly and unilaterally negative toward the Pack.

I know you think you are being objective, but if you are wrong most of the time what does that say?

Thanks I guess for being a Pack fan though. It takes all types.

To recap; the only thing

cow42's picture

would it help if i simply added an "in my opinion" at the beginning of each of my posts?

kinda thought that was understood (seeing as all anyone's posts are are opinions) but i'll be more than happy to make that adjustment if you think it'll help.

Stroh's picture

If all you have an issue w/ is the system then cry about the system instead of pissing on the Packers every chance you get! Saying that NE, Balt, Atl, SF, Sea et al are better than the Packers isn't complaing about a system its pissing on the Packers (not too mention complete Bullshit!).

cow42's picture

first of all - i don't think the idea that SF, NE, Balt, SEa, and ATL are better than the Packers is even debatable... they are all far and away better.

secondly - i don't think stating as much is "pissing on the Packers". if i say that tom brady's wife is better looking than mine - does that mean i'm insulting my wife? hell no. it's just the truth.

those teams have better/more physical/more talented rosters. it's just the truth.

packeraaron's picture

How are NE and SEA "better"? New England was shown the door in the playoffs in the same manner the Packers were. In fact, they're a pretty similar team to the Packers.

As for the Seahawks - it took an act of idiocy for them to beat the Packers straight-up in their own house, where they completely obliterated the 49ers.

SF and BAL are clearly better. That's it.

Stroh's picture

YOU think they're better hence they are. I dont concede a thing to those teams! All of them have holes in the roster just like the Packers do. THAT isn't even in question.

I've been saying since the season ended the Packers need to be more physical. Getting Bishop and Perry will go a long way. Jolly was the most physical player the Packers had, he might be a huge help. He was the best DL on the team when they had the #1 D in Capers first season. Better and more physical than Pickett and Jenkins.

cow42's picture

nagler -

"As for the Seahawks – it took an act of idiocy for them to beat the Packers straight-up in their own house"

...and since that game - a game their defense dominated - they've added two edge rushers and a difference-making wr. add to the fact that the team that BEAT the Packers and the QB that threw the WINNING TOUCHDOWN got better and better throughout the season. on top of all that they'll probably get an additional draft pick after trading flynn (rd 2/3 i'd guess). THAT'S why i think they are a better team... not to mention they have an amazing roster.

NE - comes down to the coach. B-cheat could play a mccarthy team and beat it by 2 scores. then they could trade teams and play a week later and he'd again win by 2 scores.

plus - i think NE has a more talented roster.

packeraaron's picture

<em>they’ve added two edge rushers and a difference-making wr</em>

Which means absolutely nothing in March. Check back in in December. Free agent "prizes" and blockbuster trades rarely work out as planned.

And I love how BB is so clearly a better coach in your mind when McCarthy was a final drive away from beating him with his backup quarterback the last time the two teams met.

tundravision's picture

And Nagler, "SF and BAL are clearly better" 2012. This is a whole new year and both may have been running on sugar highs last season. That's the challenge of today's parity in the NFL...yes, teams will peak and fall quickly. The best teams make the decisions that keep them in the mix over the long haul. Personally, that's what Thompson (and Wolf) bring to the Packers.

cow42's picture

nagler -

"And I love how BB is so clearly a better coach in your mind when McCarthy was a final drive away from beating him with his backup quarterback the last time the two teams met."

and that Packer team had a better roster than this one... WHICH BRINGS ME BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POST - the Pack isn't going to be able to field a complete team now that rodgers will be getting 20%+ of the salary.

cow42's picture

c.d. -

yes - there are a gazillion things that might effect the outcome of a season... but all that can be controlled is the talent.

SF and BALT have waaaaaaaaay more talented rosters (yes - even Balt after their mini-purge).

cow42's picture

stroh -


there is zero chance that he will be on the roster.


Beep's picture

You can't have your cake and eat it too Cow. Either you pay the best QB in the NFL his fair market value or you don't get to have the best QB in the NFL. Instead of going off on TT being an idiot, why don't you just go off on the NFL salary cap and revenue sharing. But guess what, that system is why a franchise can survive in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Sucks again, but might as well roll with it because the Packers are doing great because we have such an intelligent front office.

PS You're a douche because you can't even spell douche.

Vrog's picture

Sad to say but you are correct Fitz

tundravision's picture

You're talking to a guy who actively petitioned for Brett Favre to be traded for a Herschel Walker-esque deal after the 1999 season. My rationale was Favre's value would never be higher, nor would he ever really play any better than it had been. Such a trade, in my mind, would have built the groundwork for a dynasty.

But, with 20/20 hindsight, while it may seem viable, there were no guarantees. Would Ron Wolf's name be up on the Ring of Honor after auctioning off a beloved quarterback to the highest bidder? Would Mike Sherman have turned all of those extra picks into gold, or wasted them as he did with so many of his other picks?

The Herschel Walker trade was, perhaps, a once-in-a-lifetime event, and the reason it doesn't happen more is because the NFL knows it just doesn't work. Sure, it works on Madden, but in real life, with real fans, and real karma...nope.

So, yes, you keep Aaron Rodgers, make a choice on him when his skills start to erode, not unlike Donald Driver, and ride the wave as long as you can. Remember, this contract is for now and a couple of years, and there will be a renegotiation in about three years or so. If he continues playing at an MVP level, it might go up. If he returns to the mortal plane, he will be more open to doing a Tom Brady-like deal that guarantees more money and applies less to the cap.

Always have to remember the real world isn't Madden GM mode. Never that easy.

Charlie M's picture

C.D., really great article, one of my favorites of yours. Excellent point on renegotiation. It's not ideal but if we need cap relief in a few years, Rodgers will be restructured. That's how the game is played. The best point you made was this : "...Aaron Rodgers is a special player who has had a career arc unlike any other player in the history of the NFL..." Damn right.

Pay him. Pay that man his money.
- Teddy KGB

cow42's picture

no shit, they're going to pay him.
they have to.
i juts wish it didn't have to be an amount that's going to cut the balls off the rest of the roster.

Charlie M's picture

I guess we'll see what happens, Cow. Btw congrats on all the money you're going to make betting the 9ers since they're gonna win it all both of the next 2 years. Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime?

Evan's picture

The 2013 season is just a formality, right? 2014, too.

cow42's picture

who would you put your $ on?
Packers or 49'ers... be honest.

Stroh's picture

You mean a team w/ a franchise QB in Rodgers or a gimmick QB in Kaepernick? Which would you take? Be honest.

Oh I forget Kaepernick has revolutionized the NFL already. How silly of me.

Clay's picture

Agreed Charlie...we can thank Cow that now our Sundays will be free this fall! No need to watch the games since Cow will be accurately predicting the entire season.

Although I do wonder how the Niners would do with 15 players on injured reserve. Oh but nevermind injury bugs never hit teams in the NFL.

cow42's picture

stroh -

"You mean a team w/ a franchise QB in Rodgers or a gimmick QB in Kaepernick? Which would you take? Be honest."

no i mean the team that kicked the shit out of the Packers TWICE last season and is on the rise.

i'll actually answer the question: i would take the 49'ers (duh).

are you interested in honestly answering the question?

cow42's picture

clay -

"we can thank Cow that now our Sundays will be free this fall! No need to watch the games since Cow will be accurately predicting the entire season."

no - i can't predict the entire season.
but i will predict this...

Packers will either a) miss the playoffs altogether or b) get destroyed in their first playoff game (again).

Clay's picture

Thanks for your prediction.

"Destroyed in their first playoff game (again)"...

Those are your words. And what first playoff game was it that they got destroyed in?

I seem to remember them winning the first playoff game last year.

Facts don't really matter though do they?

Check back with you after the season.

cow42's picture

forgot about mighty joe webb.

my bad.

yes - we will revisit this after the Pack finishes 6-10.

ArodMoney's picture

6-10? The worst finish by a team with a top flight quarterback was the 7-9 Saints and they gave up the second most points in the league.

The Packers will not give up that many points with as good a secondary as they have. There is 0 chance that finish that poorly. Even if ARod didn't play the whole season I would be surprised if they had that poor of a record.

You are not a Packers fan and you are an obvious troll. Please leave.

Imran's picture

I seriously doubt most of us predicted Ravens to win a SB last year and Giants before that. So Kaep is the greatest qb ever and no one can stop him. People said that about vick in 2009. How can u judge a qb after playing not even a full season. Even Rex Grossman made and lost a SB. Kaep didnt take this team much further than Alex Smith. NFL Is unpredictable. U cant just give 49ers the nfc cuz of last two years. Packers dominated 2 years before the last two. Sb.15-1 record. 19 game win streak. Even Patriots had gone away for a while after 3 sbs and eliminated in the divisionals. 9ers have been blessed with a healthy team. That doesn't always happen every year.

kennypayne's picture

I agree with you 100% and your logic is impeccable.

Why then, I ask myself, can't I shake the feeling that the Pack is on a downward trajectory. When we lost the playoff game to the Cardinals, I was not in the least dejected and was sure we'd be back the next year -- though after all the injuries I was shocked we won the Super Bowl.

In 2011, I thought the D was a fraud the whole year and expected the loss to the Giants.

This season, I would not have been surprised if the Vikes beat the Pack in Lambeau with a healthy Ponder at QB. And when we played the 49ers I was hardly surprised to see an old Woodson, confused Walden, overrated Neal, slow-footed Hawk, and overall soft D get dismantled.

My gut tells me that 2013 will not be a banner year. I just don't see how this team is going to be better next season and think it might be 2015 before we are (I hope) serious contenders again.

Rocky70's picture

What you say is blasphemous!!

But I agree. Too many key players are no longer on the 53. TT hasn't replaced them adequately. His last 3 drafts have been dismal.

However, I still want to believe that AR will win another SB MVP. I just don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

Stroh's picture

His last 3 drafts all had the 1st round pick on IR! Guess that makes them busts in your mind, but its hardly the case! Cobb and Hayward played very well. Green played last year but was clearly not ready after ACL surgery. House and Manning are 2 players that might become playmakers but also had injury/illness issues. Guess we should write them all off as busts!

cow42's picture

right - manning's a special player that every other GM in the league just forgot to draft on his way to the 5th round.

you gotta get off your manning and jolly fixes.
these guys are the longest of long shots to even become average let alone difference making type players.

as for the 3 IR guys...

bulaga - servicable

sherrod - will never start a game unless the player ahead of him is injured

perry - will be a stud... when he gets to leave and play DE in a 4/3 somewhere

face it - TT's last 3 drafts have not been enough to replenish the talent that has exited.

gotta be better at drafting if that's all you're gonna do.

oh yeah - and green sucks... he did before the knee... he especially did last year. soft. player.

Barutan Seijin's picture

Whether or not guys like Sherrod, Perry, Green or Manning are "busts" or not, the team hasn't gotten much production out of them. Doesn't really matter why or what labels you do or not apply to them.

A certain percentage of guys are going to get hurt. A team has to have capable replacements.

Barutan Seijin's picture

I have that feeling, too. This team reminds me of some of those Shermie teams.

Mind you, with good management and a little luck, teams like this can be contenders.

Denver's picture

Cow, if you think the Pack having to spend 20% of their cap on 1 guy is a bad thing, try reading the comments to a post where over 20% of them are you repeating your same schtick over and over again.
Step away from the keyboard and enjoy the weekend.

Clay's picture

Amen Denver

gbphashtag's picture

I can't be upset about having the best QB in the NFL locked in for a long time. Eventually you have to pay the good ones and there isn't another more deserving. It's better than the alternative of searching for that QB or paying a lesser QB ballpark same numbers when you really break in down. Yes I'd rather pay Rodgers 12M than 25M a year but that's not an option anymore. And it'll be an extension on the next 2 value years with a large bonus spread throughout the duration. Neither Rodgers deal or CM3 after will cripple the Packers.

gbphashtag's picture

mini "better team" breakdown of their negatives...

patriots-ave/weak o-line, no d-line, weak lb's, terrible secondarly, lost welker

ravens-ave qb paid 7m more/yr than worth, lost boldin, not a top 10 D, lost leaders of secondary and lb's

49?ers-gore is close to done, crabtree had one good season ever, no other wr's, cancer te, league will be more prepared for QB, lost S signal caller

falcons- above ave qb and two great wr's, a rb that can't score td's, no pass rush

broncos-old and win now mode best talent is declining, no rb

seahawks- 1 headache WR, DE signing is injured,

giants- really?

I could listen to the arguement of the 49ers, Seahawks and maybe Denver as better teams. Honestly laughable to consider the others.

cow42's picture

Packers - above ave qb, no running back, god awful offensive line, thin wr corp., bad kicker, bad dl, overpaid-non impact ilbs, only 1 legit pass rusher, above ave cb's, poor safety play.

Point Packer's picture

"thin wr corp"

Cow -Eat shit and die.

Jay's picture

How many WR corps would you rather have?

ArodMoney's picture

you don't watch any other teams play football

Vrog's picture

Above average quarterback!
Are you insane?

gbphashtag's picture

A tall order, but all the Packer's need to do to be better is be a more balanced team with an effective running game and invest on defense. We need a pass rush from DE and OLB and a strong running mate next to Burnett. I'm willing to bet a couple of those needs can be addressed with players coming up. There needs to be an increased aggression on the o-line with a mauler at LT/C/G.

gbphashtag's picture

GBP fans are spoiled to have had elite QB's for this long and to not have to worry about it for many years to come is a great blessing. Every year every team that doesn't have the answer at QB is searching for it. The Cowboys gave up and extented Romo, (top 10 but a fraction of Rodgers talent) through age 39 for ballpark same money and he'll never win a SB.

Someone will draft Geno Smith way too high. Barkley, Glennon, and Manuel will become other teams hopes. Teams will pay "good enough" QB's (top 15) a lot to have a chance, but maybe five of those are difference makers and only one the best. Every team wishes they had the "problem" of building a team around the best player in the league.

Really all it'll be is a combo of paying 3 positions 3m less than they could invest, finding a handful of players that perform beyond their pay scale or finding players that'll take less to play on an elite team. And of course drafting and developing and not wasting FA money on 2nd tier players.

Imran's picture

Lol cow. Rodgers is an above avg QB? Have u seen his stats? Led nfl in qb rating 2 years in a row. Took the worst d in nfl history at the time to 15-1. Played without his wrs and still had an mvp season. crappy line. No run game. Even brady and manning cant do what rodgers does behind gbays line. U put rodgers on pats or broncos. I dont see them losing a game period

Charlie M's picture

Another aspect to the effect on the salary cap is obviously how the $ is allocated annually. We have $17m in cap room right now, I believe. I bet most of that goes to Rodgers and Matthews. And everyone seems to think the cap will go up fairly significantly in a couple years. I would think Ted and Russ Ball are planning for this. So it's very possible the Rodgers and Matthews extensions will not cripple the packers cap. And as far as the notion that Rodgers will take up 20 or 25 % of the cap, that seems less likely the more I think about it.

jmac34's picture

I don't see how anyone can proclaim Kaepernick as a great QB already when he has played only half a season. If he is great this season, then maybe he will be a great player. Teams will now have tape and an offseason to prepare for his style of play and there are definitely weaknesses to Colin's game. I've noticed that he tends to stare down the wr's he is throwing to and hedoesn't always go through all of his progressions. Heck those are two problems that I have noticed. I am sure NFL teams are picking up a lot more. Don't be surprised if Kaepernick struggles next year as teams pick out his weaknesses

cow42's picture

lucky he plays for the best/most creative coach in football who'll get him prepared.

or is it only the Packers who "draft and develop" players?

by the way - that's how good kprnk is... he dominates without fully understanding how to play the position.

if he's not sure where to throw it... he just runs... and he's a better athlete than every single defensive player he's running away from.

there is no way to stop a qb who can simply run away from defenders when his receivers are covered.

Point Packer's picture

"there is no way to stop a qb who can simply run away from defenders when his receivers are covered."

Yeah, kind of like Michael Vick.

Cow - Eat shit and die.

ArodMoney's picture

Let me point out all the places where Cow trolled in his post:

"he plays for the best/most creative coach in football"

A coach that has been in the league 2 years and hasn't won one super bowl while relying on a defense is the single most creative coach in the league. Def not provable, def trolling.

"only the Packers who “draft and develop” players?"

Hey Packers fans, you know how you won that super bowl with draft and develop. Well that doesn't work and every other team does it better - Cow

"he dominates without fully understanding how to play the position"

Cow calls what Kaepernick does 'dominating' while he calls Rodgers a burden on the salary cap. Kaepernick's record last year: 5-2-1 in the regular season. 2-1 in the postseason. 300 yard games in the regular Oh yea he's good, but dominating is not descriptive of his play. JJ Watt dominates, Von Miller dominates, AD dominates, Kaepernick is versatile with a good Oline. No one in their right mind would trade him for ARod.

"he’s a better athlete than every single defensive player he’s running away from"

Obvious trolling. Kaepernick's combine numbers:
40: 4.53
Vert: 32.5
Broad: 9'7"
20Shut: 4.18
60shut: 6.85

Not only can probably 80% of the starting corners in the league beat those numbers, but he didn't even lead the QB position at the combine in ANY OF THOSE DRILLS. So another QB beat him in every single one of those drills in 2011.
Yea, better athlete than everyone on the planet I'm now a 49ers fan cuz Kaepernick made my leg tingle - Cow

"there is no way to stop a qb who can simply run away from defenders when his receivers are covered"

Really? Then why hasn't Vince Young won the super bowl the last 5 years. And Mike Vick the 5 years before that? They can run and pass, how are the slow defenders supposed to compete with them and super K? Oh, yea... no pure running QB has ever won the super bowl...oops. Where have I been the last 47 years. Honestly, idk why you haven't been banned from the comments yet, but I've pointed out multiple instances of trolling. Not only are you're opinions blatantly anti-packer, they are also obviously trying to rouse others poster to argue with you. No one believes the post that you just stated. The most HOMER 49ers fan would tell you to reign it in cuz youre getting a little too out of hand.

I pray that you root for another team besides the Packers because if you do actually root for the Packers you are the most unhappy, uninteresting, and all around boring person in the world. Please leave.

redlights's picture

OK, I've been humored enough.

If you say you're going to start with your posts with "in my opionion", then do it. You've exposed yourself to disrespect amongst us; so IMO will be needed (IMO), to regain any semblance of credibility.

Why? Because the lowly TT was so stupid as to sign AR after only 8 (?) starts to a contract that paid him $10M to be the SB MVP and still have five more years on his contract. What an imbecile, hey?

AR an above average QB. Sorry, way below homer level.

Thin WR's? Who has a better top 3? Talent, we could have a discussion; but that TT guy has only found players that fit the scheme and (gasp!), excel!!

Recent drafts have been riddled with injuries; lets let that play out before making that the product of an inferior GM.

TT has built and is retaining a team that is built to make the playoffs every year. That's the talent that is "the only thing each team can control". We all know that the playoffs are the second season and anything can happen. So, say, Kap gets hurt like RGIII; or Vernon Davis cops an attitude; or BAL finds that it lost too much leadership; or Carroll lets success go to his head; or, or, or.... GB could get another Lombardi.

Repeat after me ... GB could get another Lombardi. Go ahead...

Quit refusing to see that there is, in fact, a ton of opportunity in 2013 and beyond.

The salary cap means that all the other teams are operating under the same constraints. I trust TT will get it right; not because I'm a homer, but because he's a top-notch GM.

xuyee's picture

I agree. If the 9ers were as hurt as we were, we would've beat them. By the playoffs, we had lost our two best ILBs, our best OT and our best RB. That's equivalent to the 9ers losing Willis, Bowman, Staley, and Gore. They heavily depend on their defensive starters employing fewer subs than the rest of the NFL, a sign of limited depth.

They couldn't beat the Rams last season.

I like Kaepernick, but a full season of running and he'll end up like RG3.

Fish/Crane's picture

I think it's safe to say that in the past the best athletes were not the quarter...but that this is changing quickly.

Imran's picture

Thank you Arods Money! That was freaking BEAUTIFUL! !!! COULDNT HAVE POSSIBLY P UT IT ANY BETTER! I have had my friends literally tell other people to watch what they say about my Packers. Cuz I go nuts when u disrespect my team! Cow, u actually have some football knowledge. But either your the most pathetic packers fan/ person in the world, who downs his own team, family, friends, and life just so he wont be disappointed with life. Or a troll who has no life, friends, or a job and goes on teams forums and argues with their fans about the teams weakness.

mark's picture

Hey guys, be nice. If Cow has some negative and/or unwise opinions, just let him have them. No need for the "eat shit and die" pathetic, no friends, no life stuff. Let's just be nice, and agree to disagree with the guy.

I can't wait for the draft, then a summer at the beach deep in thought about the amazing, probably Super Bowl season that awaits us in Green Bay.

tundravision's picture

@cow42, you asked earlier in the thread "what's wrong with how" you post, or something to that effect. I've never attacked you, so I'm going to do my best to address it as objectively as I can. I've lived through several "forum wars" in my long posting history, so I do consider myself somewhat of an experienced hand at this.

1) You are entitled to your opinion. Hey, I have negative thoughts about the direction of the team or of player performances at times, too. In fact, I've written about them and opened myself up for criticism from those who disagree.

But I always do my best to keep my interests as a Packer fan first and foremost, and also do my best to acknowledge the opposite viewpoint. That's what strikes me about your posts, cow. You are invariably negative about the team, and don't seem to offer much more than hedged and forced throwaway quasi-concessions ("an above average qb").

This is a website dedicated to the Packers, and to bringing Packer fans together. I've learned the hard way over the years that life is too freaking short to fight with fellow Packer fans. I've also learned that if you are always negative, even when people WANT to be positive in the face of adversity, you really miss the point of being a fan.

2) You hijack every possible thread, cow. It's a pain the ass. Seriously. Yes, you have your opinion, and you are entitled to have them. But you turn every possible conversation into the SAME CONVERSATION of you criticizing and instigating the SAME retaliation.

It's dumbs down the conversation, cow. We see it all the time in political venues, where people just use tired talking points that they know hijack the conversation away from anything productive. The purpose of doing this is to frustrate the opposition until they just stop responding and leave. Why you would use this kind of strategy with fellow Packer fans?

You don't present solutions. You just criticize and cause more problems.

3) We know we're not going to win the Super Bowl every year, cow. And while we like to make that our measuring stick, its unrealistic to say we're a failure every year we don't. In fact, I remember WINNING the Super Bowl and hearing you still be negative and critical about the team. Instead of constantly comparing us to San Francisco and Kaepernick, how about we discuss how the Packers can address their issues with containing mobile quarterbacks and running games?

Personally, if I were running this site, I'd ban you, or at least suspend you for a while. Ted Thompson once talked about "Packer People", and there comes a point where you need to make a choice what being a fan really means to you. If it means constantly ragging on your team, even when they are successful, then it isn't going to match up with most people's definition of being a fan.

Or worse, if you just do this to provoke reactions from fans who want to participate in intelligent, productive conversation, you need to leave. Yes, for our sake and sanity, but also for yours. We're not doing you any favors by constantly rewarding your overt and persistent negativity with the Pavolvian attention you seem to be craving.

Evan's picture

I have attacked you in the past (not as personally as some) but I'd like to add my 2 cents.

I agree with everything CD said. But what I find especially obnoxious is your inability to ever concede a point. You're not always right - often wrong, in fact - but you never admit to those errors. None of us are experts. We all have our opinions. But most of us on here are willing to hear the other side of the argument. We're here to talk with fellow Packer fans and maybe learn something. You're not. You just repeat the same 2 or 3 arguments and that's it. That's why I consider you a troll (well, that and the fact that you admitted to it). I ignore you 95% of the time, but wading through your bs makes it extremely difficult to enjoy this site.

Take it for what you will.

Rocky70's picture


Cow42 can speak for himself but, consider this:

You may need to investigate a few things before you draw too many conclusions about how "evil" Cow is. CHTV has a poster (maybe 2) who have donned multiple IDs (20+) to make their arguments. In fact, there have been blogs where the same poster has made (IMO) 50% to 75% of the posts on the blog. He's constantly responding directly to his own posts (using a different ID). Check the words, punctuation errors, similar spelling errors, posting times &amp; IDs that show up instantly &amp; disappear even quicker.

You may not appreciate Cow42's attitude or approach, but he is at least only Cow42. ---- Those with multiple IDs are only duping CHTV &amp; everyone else who wants to have an honest conversation about the Pack. --- Ask the owners of CHTV. ---- They know. ---- (BTW -- This is Rocky70 ONLY. -- Always has been, always will be.)

Evan's picture

You've accused me of being Stroh, which isn't true. Your "proof" seems awfully thin. But if the people who run this site can prove who the multiple IDs belong to, I'd be all for them revealing it. Because that is stupid.

Rocky70's picture

I never used the word "proof". Plus, you have no idea how I would be able to believe what I've stated. Don't even ask, because you are not on a "need to know" basis. --- Sorry.

Evan's picture

Ha. Whatever that's supposed to mean.

Stroh's picture

The one who usually crys foul first is the most complicit. If any poster is using multiple ID's its you CowPie! Your thinly feiled attack doesn't fool anyone.

Rocky70's picture

Stroh, BeddarCheddar, Jamie, Evan, mark, kathy, Packgal, Devil Doc, California Cheesehead, hayward4president, trvs, kgnfl1, Pack Morris, RC Packer Fan, etc. and so on. --- All the same.

I apologize to all those I missed.

Evan's picture

Ha. I beg you to prove it.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

2 share owner's picture

Rocky... I have been one of the ones who have called you Cow. I will take your word to the contrary, my apologies.

2 share owner's picture

As for you Cow, I will no longer call you Rocky.

2 share owner's picture

If you have any doubts about me Rocky thats up to you. I dont post as much as some but I read every word written on this site and I must admit it is no longer fun.

Rocky70's picture

I believe ya.

packsmack25's picture

CD, this response is exactly what a troll is after. Responding to, referencing, or otherwise acknowledging them in any way are surefire ways to keep them around. It is this very attention that they seek.

tundravision's picture

Exactly, which is why, for years, I've never responded to cow42. Ever.

Did you really think my response was intended to cow42? :)

Rocky70's picture

Talk to Corey B.
I already have(weeks ago).

I sincerely appreciate you pointing this out. It's pathetic that someone would do this.

Please know that we have been working on a re-design/re-development of the site that will help prevent these issues. We are hoping to launch (getting close) in the next 2 months.

It will only allow comments by logged in users. While I know that someone could then create multiple accounts - we will have a better system to address these type of issues as they come up.

I plan on adding you to a special beta program for our new site when it rolls out. I will send you an email when we are ready.

thanks again,

Go Pack!


2 share owner's picture

Thanks cd, that post was obviously for us and what was this blog about again? lol

Packgal's picture

I find it interesting that some of the things are said over and over again, maybe changing the words a little. People agree with said person, they sound exactly the same. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Anyone follow other sports forums? Cow42 sounds so much like a multiple personality poster over at ESPN.

All in all my objection is wanting to read constructive opinions about the Packers (we know they aren't perfect, what team is)and running into nonstop rants on the same subject over and over.

Rocky70's picture

"Cow42 sounds so much like a multiple personality poster over at ESPN."

Pretty strong statement for a 1st post at CHTV. --- Do you have a link or two to support your claim??

jmac34's picture

If you are saying he is LKP, I disagree. He does not have the same mannerisms as him plus he hasn't said boombaya once.

tundravision's picture

No offense, Rocky, but I was already fully aware that Corey's new redesign is going to take care of the multiple poster issue. People will have to be registered to comment.

In other words, that problem is taken care of.

Now, go back and reread the crux of my post. It had nothing to do with multiple posters. It had to do with posting etiquette, and how Packer fans should treat other Packer fans. Lets stick to the topic at hand, please.

Rocky70's picture

You have an issue with Cow's personality.

In my mind, honesty, integrity &amp; fair play are much more important than trying to correct the behavior of one individual. The only posters who need to be corrected are those who are cheating the system &amp; making a sham of CHTV.

I'm sure you could have sermonized Cow through an e-mail. Public hangings are illegal.

2 share owner's picture

No I think, cd about summed it up when he addressed Cow and I would say about 90% of the posters would agree No matter how many are using multiple accounts.

2 share owner's picture

ArodMoney also summed oit up quite nicely, thank you for that...... and I am not

cow42's picture


i'm not going to change my opinion of this team just because some (most) of the people on this site don't like my "tone".

i think what i think.
i'll say what i'm gonna say.

i love the Packers.... so much so that it pisses me off when i see opportunities missed. i just want them to be better.

yeah - yeah... the numbers look good. and the draft/develop method of building a team is sound. but it's more than that... it's a "feel".

they win the SB and i'm thinking - "damn - this could be a pretty good run here"... and then 2011 happened. sure the record was pretty but you could tell it wasn't going to happen. the giants debacle wasn't a surprise.

then the commercials.
then the historically bad defenses.
then the sacks keep piling up.
then the running game becomes a joke.
then important guys get old.
then important guys get hurt.

and things have just snowballed.

i just feel like things are slipping.
new talent is not effectively replacing old.
coaches i used to trust i've begin to lose faith in.
adjustments fail to be made.
talent evaluators leave.

i mean - what was the last positive thing to happen to this team?
brad jones?
hawk taking a cut?

when they win - they look pretty... but when they lose to obviously superior teams... well it's just a slap in the face... not because they lost but because it shows how far away they are. good team don't fear the Packers.

the roster they have is not a championship roster (IN MY OPINION)... and i see it taking a long time to get it there.

so. many. holes.

it would just be a flat -out shame to get only 2 championships out of 20 something years of elite quarterback play.

how would i fix it?

i have no idea.
i'm not smart enough to figure that out.

just change the attitude.

the way this team plays is so weak i can hardly even stand it.



Kelly's picture

Seriously, Cow, you're just in full-blown troll mode now.

Explain to me exactly how endorsement deals/commercials affect performance on the field? If you're going to start asserting that Rodgers isn't worthy to wipe Colin Kaepernick's ass, how about a little evidence other than the great and mighty Cow says so?

You do realize most commercials--like the State Farm and Ford--were filmed before the season even started, right? That argument is about as valid as saying a bunch of Packers wasted a day seeing GI Joe and then went bowling. OMG, it's going to ruin their season?

Paying a quarterback is definitely about suppply and demand. With only 32 starting quarterbacks in the entire league, that can be a tight bell curve if teams such as Baltimore and Dallas are suddenly paying tens of millions per season for absolute mediocrity. It moves the target for an elite quarterback such as Rodgers, Brady and Peyton Manning all the higher.

It's always been that way. Like CD said, look at Buffalo. Tons of cap space, but absolutely no talent.

Not to point out the painfully obvious, but if you have one of the best QBs in the league, you pay in accordingly. And you build a team around your biggest assets. No, not every one gets a $20 Million contract. Cry that it isn't fair. But without a quarterback, you don't have a team.

Sure, Randy Wright was a good bargain for a QB, but how many playoff runs did he lead his team to? You can pay for talent, or you can be saddled with the Randy Wrights, Don Majowskis and Rich Cambells of the football world.

And don't give me this Kapernick is the best thing in the league. The kid hasn't even played an entire season. The pistol is as gimmicky as it comes. Sure, it's a surprise and a punch in the throat to a team the first time they play it. But guess what, it isn't as surprising a season or two into it. Remember the Wildcat and how it was OOOOH SHINY? Well, it's painfully predictable.

And you don't think that after his rookie contract is up, Kaepernick isn't going to be asking as much as the big boys at the grown up table are asking?

Whatever, Cow. Keep holding on to that Kaepernick wet dream. When you want to talk actual facts, come on back.

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