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Packers Question of the Day: Takeaways From the Loss

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Packers Question of the Day: Takeaways From the Loss

The Packers were shut out for the second time in the Mike McCarthy era and for the first time since November 19, 2017.

It was one of the more depressing, uninspired offensive performances seen ever since, as well. On the other side of the ball, the Packers' notoriously flawed defense stepped up impressively despite the poor field position they were constantly being served via short offensive possessions.

What were your takeaways from the loss?

__________________________

Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (70) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

lisherman's picture

As I looked at Brett Hundly's play I was struck by the slow speed of play and the lack of sharpness. The hesitation in his throws was very evident. Quick anticipatory decision making allows NFL quarterbacks to put the ball where the receiver will be, avoiding interceptions and increasing catch percentages. I hope they are working on this with him.

dobber's picture

His first move in the face of any pressure is to retreat. He's shell-shocked at this point. It's hard enough to throw on the run, but it's harder yet when you've given up 10 yards when maybe you could've stepped up into the pocket. Once Baltimore got up 13-0, they turned the dogs loose and the OL couldn't do anything to help #7.

I honestly feel bad for the kid in the sense that this was his chance to really make a name and a career for himself. The script was set for him to not only save the season for the Packers, but to set himself up long-term (and earn the Packers some decent compensation). I don't think anyone wanted it to turn out like this for him because, even though by all accounts he's a good kid, he's done. He just doesn't have it. I'd be surprised if he's on anyone's roster next fall.

Razer's picture

...I honestly feel bad for the kid in the sense that this was his chance to really make a name and a career for himself. The script was set for him to not only save the season for the Packers, but to set himself up long-term (and earn the Packers some decent compensation). I don't think anyone wanted it to turn out like this for him because, even though by all accounts he's a good kid, he's done. He just doesn't have it. I'd be surprised if he's on anyone's roster next fall...

Well said Dobber. It is as sad as it is disappointing.

croatpackfan's picture

Packers might trade him if Packers offer, I do not know, lets say, 5th rounder together with him?

Razer's picture

There have been many current players where the "moment wasn't too big for the player". Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson and even our Aaron Rodgers showed that they had the tools early on. To date, Brett Hundley has not shown an aptitude for the position or system. Furthermore, the team has tied up a spot and three years developing this lack of talent. Fail - fail.

rdent's picture

Well, now TT and MM know what they have in their backup QB. 3 years invested in an absolute bust, it begs the question(s) how did they not see this earlier ? And is TT really that bad at evaluating talent at the QB position? And how would this regime have fared up to now if Aaron Rodgers hadn't fell into Ted Thompsons lap at no. 24 in the 2005 draft.

Spud Rapids's picture

I don't think you can coach the mistakes Hundley is making. It seems to be instinctual and he must correct on his own if he even can. Defense played well enough that if the offense had any semblance of a heart beat they could have won that game.

guitarno's picture

The defense, which everyone has been griping about this year, was actually the best part of the team in this game and played well enough to win.

The offense was downright awful! While Hundley does have some skills and can throw a nice ball at times, he is not ready to lead this team to a win, unless the opponent is "Da Bears" apparently. The jury is out as to if he will ever be ready to be a starting NFL quarterback, but right now, he's not going to keep us in the playoff hunt.
I can just hear Jim Mora: "Playoffs!...Playoffs??... Playoffs???!!!

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

That performance was laughable. MM is a a joke TT is worse...

This is the product we get after 3 years of Hundley in the system learning from AR. and MM is supposed to be this great QB guru and Offensive genius. The only thing offensive is this product that TT is forcing on us. But they will fix it this week Same old story. How much longer do they get ?? Good thing they don’t have an actual owner. I would have fired the after Seattle meltdown.

fastmoving's picture

Yeah, but you are not an owner of anything. And there are probably a lot of good reasons for it.
And all the teams with an owner, who fire people all the time have done so much better over the last decades......

I like it a lot that we have no owner. thats what the GREEN BAY PACKERS are all about....

HankScorpio's picture

What, you're not longing for Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder to be running the show in GB?

Razer's picture

The problem with having an Aaron Rodgers is that you don't have a critical eye on the weaknesses and failures that he overcomes. Despite Rodgers, most of the fan base has come to recognize the problems on defense and talent acquisition. Still, we could overcome these deficeincies (I can't spell that word!) because we had the best QB.

Taking Rodgers out of the equation shows everybody - except MM - that we have many of the same weaknesses on offense. McCarthy and his coaches have failed to develop a backup QB. Worse, they have failed to move on from a project and have wasted 3 years. And maybe the error isn't just in a lack of talent. Maybe these schemes, whether on offense or on defense, are too complicated and flawed for the modern game. If you need 3 years to bring a QB along and he can't come close to competing then maybe your system is a problem. I don't see this staff recognizing an error in ways. That is a bigger problem than Brett Hundley.

I don't expect a backup QB to beat the Steelers but I do expect our team to be competitive. We played a very beatable team and despite numerous chances to make it a game, we never showed a spark. I know that this season is lost, it is a question of whether we are on the downside as a franchise. Are we the next SF, Arizona, NYG and the other organizations who have challenged for the top and now are sliding back down to the pool of any-given-Sunday teams?

cpabandit's picture

Hundley may be "my man" for MM but he continues to demonstrate that he is not a starting QB, not a reliable backup QB and perhaps should not be in the NFL at all. His mistakes are both physical (throwing off of the wrong foot, as an example), and mental (how do you get sacked not once, but twice on 4th down?), can't step into the pocket. After three years, not only is he not NFL talent-worthy (I made up this word, I think), but he is uneducable. Three years to watch and learn from perhaps the best QB to ever play the game, and nothing at all to show for it. He's just hasn't evolved to even a respectable QB. Lastly, I am so tired of hearing MM deliver the usual weekly rhetoric bullshit, we need to improve, will look at the tapes, etc.

dobber's picture

I understand people wanting to think that watching ARod play and being with him in the QB room conveys some benefit, but if you don't have the skills to do what he does it doesn't mean much. I think #4 would've been the last person you would've wanted tutoring ARod (and Favre by all accounts didn't embrace that role) and look at how things turned out.

My dad was an excellent farmer. I worked with and around him for many years. I have a brown thumb. Sometimes that's the way it works out.

fastmoving's picture

Well put and a good story too.............

al bundy's picture

As a former air controller trainer, we called 'seeing traffic'. The mental ability to conceive of planes crossing and intersecting. Either you were able to or you werent. It had nothing to to with intellegence. I saw many very bright people wash out of the program.
Just like seeing guys like Hundley struggle to read defenses and finally being a bust. Its something you cannot learn

Coldworld's picture

Exactly. This is not about his arm, this is about what happens mentally when under pressure or after a mistake. For the most part that response is genetic. It can be moderated a little, but one can't rewire someone's instincts fundamentally. That is why it is both sad, he seems like a good person, and also why more of the same seems likely to make matters worse for the team's future.

Hopefully TT has a colder perspective. Perhaps he will ride to the rescue ...

Razer's picture

If I could, I would give you 2 thumbs up. One for a bang-on critique and 1 for making words work for you even if you have to make them up. Good stuff.

Coldworld's picture

I share your general feeling, but I think it is hard to give up on a person for MM. Sadly, the evidence is there that this is not lack of effort but of aptitude when Hundley is in a real game. Therefore, while loyalty is endearing, in the NFL it cannot bleed into blindness.

What would Belicheck do in the wake of yesterday were he our coach? That should be the self-scouting question in the Front and Back offices.

Even if an alternate option is worse and not ready to play this week, we make progress on a back up for the future and maybe even a chance to let other players show their worth towards season end.

rdent's picture

cpabandit,Like Gilligan's Island I only watch MM pressers for the laughs and because I already know what is going to be said.

Tarynfor12's picture

Takeaways from the game....nothing I didn't already know and seen before....this team cannot win without Rodgers and that isn't all on Hundley,he just made it easily for many to suffer being witness to.

Coldworld's picture

I think with Flynn we would have had a very decent chance yesterday. Would we win out, no, but I think we could be in the mix for the post season given the frailties of others.

What we have seen with Hundley is simply that we can't win with him against a pretty poor team, but which NFL team exactly would have won with a QB performance like that? I suspect none.

NWPackersfan's picture

For me i found that MM was doing his typical bad planning for the opponent. Raven's had the one of the best pass defenses and one of the worst run defense and yet MM kept forcing Hundley to throw the ball.
I truly believe that if that first position drive had ended in a TD there would have been a different outcome. WHY didn't MM choose to run the ball on Goal to go at the 5 with it only being second down....because he sucks at play calling. He certainly has no imagination as we fans all know. We would have had two downs to possibly get it in the end zone. He could have had Hundley boot leg and possibly run it or throw a short out , something i see other teams do all the time. So many possibilities and MM chooses the least creative for an interception which in my mind just crushed Hundley's confidence for the rest of the game.
On the bright side i thought the defense played exceptional especially with the current injured players not on the field and then more injuries.
Also, why was Spriggs on the field did i miss something did McCray get injured?
MM and TT only look good because they have had 2 HOF QB's during their tenure. Now we know the truth.

dobber's picture

I think the thing that bothered me most about that INT on the first drive was that any of us who have watched this team knew exactly where that ball was going when Cobb went into motion: I called it...my wife called it...I think my 7-year-old daughter who was playing with legos called it.

An experienced QB would've adjusted and fed Adams who came open on the slant. Hundley doesn't adjust...and he threw a bad ball to boot.

McCray hurt his knee.

lou's picture

1st and goal from the 5 yard line and an in experienced QB, where was at least 1 run attempt or a run/pass option roll out by Hundley to a tight end, the Raven's secondary is rated high not stopping the run.

dobber's picture

Their aggregate stats point to a team that's not been good against the run, but they've gotten a couple players back in the lineup and been better of late. I can understand either call (pass/run) in that situation, and a run for no gain just gets us pissing and moaning about conservative playcalling. But it also might have salvaged at least 3 points.

Tundraboy's picture

Yes MM is an Offensive genius Stubborn mule is more like it, and I'm being kind. Reminds me more and more of Infante. No edge or guts

stockholder's picture

I thought I saw a lot of guts yesterday. How many times did MM go for it on forth down. Five ?, two failed I think? That was a first by him. That first INT was backbreaking and he knew it.

dobber's picture

At first I thought it was gutsy...then, later, it just came off as desperate.

rdent's picture

I was going to say, desperate people make desperate moves.

dobber's picture

Maybe they convert one of those and the game turns out differently.

They didn't. We'll never know...

Coldworld's picture

Hundley stared down the route from the moment he looked up from the snap. Smith watched his eyes and knew when and where to be. Hundley threw a gentle lob and never noticed their best player manoevering to intercept it. He has a tendency to telegraph such things whenever the ball comes out slowly that the Ravens had identified pre-game

Razer's picture

...Also, why was Spriggs on the field did i miss something did McCray get injured?...

McCray hurt his knee - and - the organization wanted to confirm what they suspect about Spriggs.

carusotrap's picture

I actually think McCarthy is very creative...on Mondays or in July when he's designing plays. But he is apocalyptically bad at "improvisational creativity" which is precisely why the scripted first series moves right down the field. Then the other team adjusts and McCarthy doesn't. Even when Rodgers is in there, the play calls from the 2nd quarter on can be aneurysm-inducing.

Three and Out's picture

That play was the absolute end of the game for Green Bay. Opening drive, game over. It was truly mind numbing watching Green Bay put together a solid, productive drive, only to throw it away. With Williams running as well as he was on the opening drive, the decision to pass is mind boggling. True McCarthy fashion, right there.

Tundraboy's picture

Spot on.

Tarynfor12's picture

This I'm sure is never McCarthy...

https://youtu.be/rxxo8fXzCIY

Qoojo's picture

MM at halftime, "men, watch your pad level"

carusotrap's picture

"All I want to know, is anyone finally going to get fired?"

No. I think McCarthy keeps his job. Some assistants leave for other teams. Capers "gracefully" retires. Ted "steps back" into a consultant role a la Ron Wolf, and one of the wunderkinder takes over. Rodgers returns and hide the warts again. They go 11-6. They win the division and lose to the Eagles in the divisional championship game. Rodgers signs an extension for $1 billion.

dobber's picture

"Rodgers signs an extension for $1 billion."

Apparently he's worth every penny...

stockholder's picture

Only to TT and MM. A new GM would never pay it.

dobber's picture

Hyperbole, friend.

HankScorpio's picture

" I think McCarthy keeps his job. Some assistants leave for other teams. Capers "gracefully" retires. Ted "steps back" into a consultant role a la Ron Wolf, and one of the wunderkinder takes over. "

Exactly where I am at with MM/DC/TT,

There have been whispers for years that TT is ready to ride off into the sunset. He'll be 65 in January. I want to say his contract expires after the draft, I'd love it if someone could confirm his contract expiration (asked separately below). I don't know if he'll have a hand in picking between Gutekunst, Wolf or Highsmith or if he'll let that guy run the entire offseason like Wolf did in transition to GM Sherman. Either way, once camp 2018 hits, I believe there will be a new GM that is working inside 1265 today. I don't think they will go outside the organization.

Since I think that potential new GM will know MM, and presumably trust MM, I don't think even a 5-11 finish will cost MM his job this year. How 2018 goes will shape things for the future. Personally, I think MM is more good than bad so I won't be disappointed at all if he stays

As for DC, he's 67 now. His failures are plain for all to see. Part of the bad with MM is that he hasn't acted on those plain failures to date. I hope that the end of year meeting will make it clear to DC that he can leave voluntarily or not but he will be leaving. So he picks the "save face" option of "retiring". I don't know if MM stays inhouse to replace or goes to the outside. I do know that not having to wait for playoff games to end will make for a better field of potential outside candidates. And I hope MM considers them.

Just my guess at how things transition from 2017 to 2018.

Coldworld's picture

Head coaches sometimes need the more distant GM to remind them when they get caught up in their protégés. This is when we need Ted to tell MM to wake up and smell the roses, oh and to meet your new veteran journeyman QB.

If he doesn't, then the balance is lost between the front and back office or Ted is already mentally packing. MM is starting to remind me of Sherman's personnel blind spots.

stockholder's picture

Hundley belongs on the bench. But we can't do that. A-Rod and Farve had good experienced Tackles. Hundley does not. He doesn't even have a good RG. TT made some mistakes. But they were on purpose with this Line. We trusted him to long. We've trusted in Capers to long. This team needs new leadership. MM has let TT decide what this team has needed to long. MM has become a TT subscriber and not a coach. Play the draft picks Mike!!!! TT has put everyone in the hole. The draft picks were for Capers and not MM. MM had no choice but to follow the leader. TT didn't do enough to get them to the super-bowl again. NO one has MMs Back. Period. The offense has been patched with late picks and Free -Agency. And even that failed with Bennet and kendricks. Cheap Ted. Always looking to save a buck on someone's misfortune. Wolf traded a #1 for Farve. TT never would. And thats exactly why TT has failed. He stayed to the draft. When he should have used his draft picks to get what he needed. Think about that people. How did wolf build this team, and who won't trade Picks. Who Patches, and who went after Reggie White. TT drafted A-Rod and Bulaga only because they fell to him. Lucky TT. The Luck ran out sunday. The Failure was displayed. Yes the talent is there. But it will never get them back to the super-bowl. ( As long as TT won't trade picks and spend money. ) The holes are there! The coaches tried to adjust. The future is frightful with out A-Rod. Finally someone better ask TT to resign. The future must start with drafting and trading picks. It's obvious that this team needs a Tackle,Te, 3 Wrs, and a new QB. Bart Starr kept getting hurt, and that was the end for the Packers, until Favre. A-Rod is heading down that path. Management must give the reigns to someone else now. They no longer can trust in TT. Otherwise the packers will be wasting a lot of defensive picks. Hundley was a 5th round pick. You get what you pay for now. Remember all TTs QB picks? It's time to call it!! The writing is on the wall.

HankScorpio's picture

Does anyone know when TT's contract expires? When I tried looking it up, I found a bunch of 2014 articles announcing an extension. But nothing with an end date.

I want to say that GM deals typically expire after the draft. And 4 years sticks in my mind as the last extension. Meaning TT is in the final 6 months of his deal. When it expires, he'll be 65. With long-running rumors that he is nearing the time when he retires.

I'm not trying to pour gasoline on the "Fire TT" bonfire. Just looking to see what the picture really is.

dobber's picture

I thought I read that he was up after 2018.

HankScorpio's picture

Do you mean 2018 season or 2018 draft?

Houndog's picture

Bonfire? Yesterday looked more like a dumpster fire to me!

cheesehead1's picture

Hundley looks lost at times, not his fault, he’s so inexperienced. Still wish we would have kept Taysom Hill though.

dobber's picture

All Taysom Hill would give us is another inexperienced QB to rant about. He's not the answer, either.

cheesehead1's picture

Hill certainly seemed the more polished QB, IMO.

dobber's picture

Hill was all swagger and moxie. He was playing by the seat of his pants...which is why I think he'd fail miserably: teams would confine him to the pocket and make him run the offense, which he never showed he could do.

Coldworld's picture

Maybe not, but he seemed more mentally resilient. A really bad QB in terms of physical skills or polish would be better than one who can't process under pressure. Great no, but better than we saw. Every team is going to go all out for Hundley now. Chances are it will get worse.

Jamie Freier's picture

Defense doing ok against a terrible offense doesn’t impress me, even with the lousy field position. It was the most grueling spectator sporting event I’ve ever attended. I stayed to the end because I guess I’m a masochist. People around me Doing the wave while Clark was down merely gilded the turd that was this game. I have attended better coached and executed high school games. Neither team played at a professional level. It was scab football without the added value of being novel. It was a root canal without benefit of Novocain and Nitrous.

al bundy's picture

My take is its hard to get anything concrete from the last two games because both teams we faced were god awful. Flacco looked like he was on drugs. The running game was so so. Their O line, was patchwork like the packs with the starters all hurt. So our D should have had success.

Hundley just cant read defenses and that cannot be learned you either have it or you dont. Two QB's who couldn't were Geno S and Travaris J. They threw a lot of picks.

The irony in all this: Glenon, Cutler, Hoyer, and Keenum were all there in free agency for anyone to grab. The Vikes GM picked Keenum and he maybe the next MVP with 7 wins thus far. Ted went draft and development with Hundley. You decide.

fastmoving's picture

Well, Teds draft and develop went pretty good with Rodgers.....

HankScorpio's picture

"The Vikes GM picked Keenum and he maybe the next MVP with 7 wins thus far."

Saying Keenum and MVP in the same sentence is a good way to convince others you are like Flacco...on drugs.

I don't like to get into "most delusional thing ever written" hyperbole. So let's just say that's in the team picture.

Handsback's picture

You have another few games this year to judge Hundley, but he's not a rookie. He's a 3rd year pro that doesn't have any experience. and as such he should he a lot more confident in his game. The Packers have to look at Hundley as still a few years away from being a quality back-up. Their next task is to see if Callahan can be a quality back-up. So maybe they start Hundley against the Steelers, and if the pattern continues, go to Callahan and see what he can do.
At this point.......Hundley doesn't even deserve a position on the team.

Doug_In_Sandpoint's picture

Al, are really going to let this go on? Pretty ugly posting and slurs going on today.

My 2 cents...we are seeing a regression to the mean. Welcome to the other side of average. It really struck me the other day seeing that the overall series with the Bears was tied. in fact the overall point differential was like 3504-3505 or something. In the long run, everything averages out.

In today's NFL, it is really hard to stay better than average and really hard to stay worse than average. All forces act to insure that the good don't stay good and the bad don't stay bad. The recent Browns and Patriots are outliers, but over time they are close to average (.558 and .517 win percentage respectively). The Pack is .569.

MM and TT have done better than the overall average for the franchise, so I'm not going to bash them. Injuries and consistently drafting in the 20's for 10 years finally appears to have caught up with us. I do think that their sell-by date has lapsed and new blood is needed, but it doesn't automatically follow that a SB will follow. Just stay above average baby...

dobber's picture

"Al, are really going to let this go on? Pretty ugly posting and slurs going on today."

Thank you, Doug!

...Al?

fastmoving's picture

Year, put things a little bit in perspektiv .......

dobber's picture

Thank you, Al.

NWPackersfan's picture

Just watched MM's press conference and it states it's hard to compare Hundley to AR. DUH!!!
Well how about Hundley to Wentz?
Wentz is coached by whom......Favre old backup.
Now isn't that ironic!!!!

Couch Cleats's picture

My takeaway is that I'm seriously doubting MM's ability to objectively assess his teams talent and identify the weaknesses that need to be fixed before they are exposed. TT is responsible for that too.

It's fine for the casual fan to not fully realize how dependent their team is on one player, but it is not acceptable for management and coaching not to realize that and do something about it before it gets to be a problem.

MM seems genuinely shocked to find out that Hundley can't play and I think that says a lot about how well the rest of the team is prepared as well.

MM has always overvalued his coaches and players and points to his record as proof of their talent. It's clear to me that Rodger's incredible play has clouded MM's vision of reality when it comes to assessing his team.

I don't think he's a bad guy and I think he could be a great offensive coordinator but I don't think he would still be a head coach without Rodgers.

We played a pretty bad football team yesterday that seemed to have read our script before kick off and knew everything that we were going to do. It seems like his plan to get out of this hole is to keep asking AR how is collarbone is doing.

Qoojo's picture

- How does Rodgers not win the MVP every year? With Rodgers, perennial playoff team. Without Rodgers, packers are the Cleveland Browns only with less defense.

- I still haven't seen anything to change my opinion that Hundley is a journeyman backup QB. Well, that isn't true. I don't think he is in the league 2 years from now.

- Packersnew had a good story on quality of QB picks by TT. Basically, Flynn was the best of the bunch, then no one else.

- Hundley said he has been preparing for this his whole life, and he got sacked twice on 4th down. How do you not at least throw it up for grabs.

- Eh Hundley, step up in the pocket.

- Williams is just a guy. Could probably find a better runner off practice squads. I know that's harsh.

- I just hope Capers hasn't bought himself another year in GB with the defensive performance the past two games against two bad offenses.

Finwiz's picture

The Packers are now one of the WORST teams in the NFL!
They will be lucky to beat Cleveland.
I haven't ever gone two games in a row without watching, hell, I haven't gone ONE game without watching.
The NFL is a product in decline now.
McCarthy probably needs to be gone, and so does Capers because they sure can't coach players, particularly Hundley.
What a bad, bad state of affairs.
They need a QB, it's too bad Kraper-nick is such a turd of human being, they could have called him!

Since '61's picture

My takeaway is that this week's game in Pittsburgh could be worse than the 2013 Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit.

Our QB isn't just bad he doesn't even know how to play and our defense against Laveon Bell and Antonio Brown on national TV should be quite a spectacle. I think this might be a good time to go visit my clients in Asia for a couple of weeks. I could fly out on Sunday and miss it all.

Thanks, Since '61

croatpackfan's picture

My takeaway is that I will watch this season, from now on, with less fear and expectation. I know that Packers still may reach postseason mathematically, but I think neither them believes in that...

I just hope to see young players blossom, I wish to see some players rise their games and I will wait for the next season...

It is how it is. Now I know I will be happy for every good moment from Packers games...

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