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Packers in Need of "Football Players"

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Packers in Need of "Football Players"

Recently, our own Andy Herman tweeted a clip of a snap from the Green Bay Packers' defense this season and it got me thinking about the kinds of players the team has on its roster.

This short clip motivated me to write this post.  What the Packers need are real, true, bona fide football players.  Guys like Antonio Morrison and Tyler Lancaster on this particular play.

Blake Martinez doesn't look great from an optics standpoint in this clip, but I'd put him among those on the Packers roster that are true football players. 

To be fair, I realize this was the week 17 game and most players weren't trying as hard as they typically would.  That's also part of my point.  The Packers need guys who want to be out there all 16 games.  

So what is a "football player"? 

There are many opinions and definitions on this out there.  To me, it's a guy who just goes out and makes plays, consistently, regardless of the situation or scheme they're in. 

That includes playing hard whether the game means something or not.  If there's too much risk to play all out, sit out.  

Those types of guys don't grow on trees in the NFL.  These players are paid well and this is their job.  Not unlike many in the non-sports world, some players look at what they do on Sunday's as their job and not much else.

As fans, we want to believe that all 22 players on the field are dead-set on winning at all costs.  Those of us who played competitive sports can also appreciate how it feels to want to win.

This past season, the Packers looked like they were playing at half speed and often didn't play like they knew what was going on around them.  There wasn't enough mojo from Green Bay players.

Meanwhile, in the same division, the Chicago Bears appear to be stocked with a bunch of football players (Unfortunately, one of them is not a kicker and yes, I had to add that in).

But in all seriousness, guys like Khalil Mack, Akiem Hicks, Roquan Smith, Kyle Fuller, Tarik Cohan, Jordan Howard, Allen Robinson, Kyle Long and Danny Trevathan.  Guys who want to win on every snap (sometimes without regard to the rules or personal safety, mind you).

It's hard to get it right every time when a team acquires players, either via the draft or free agency but hopefully Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst and his personnel team are looking for a new type of player to build the team's roster.

When the Packers last won a Super Bowl, they had a roster full of guys you knew could beat the guy across from them: Nick Collins, Charles Woodson, Clay Matthews, Ryan Pickett, Cullen Jenkins, Desmond Bishop, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Tramon Williams.

Since then, it seems the Packers were more concerned with finding value players and guys who were both smart and stayed out of trouble.  Thank you, Ted Thompson.  Some of those characteristics are important, but it's still the game of football.  I don't care if the guy can win a game of chess.  Can he tackle?  Is he allergic to the football?

How many current Packers do you put in the "true football player" category?  Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels, Aaron Rodgers, David Bakhtiari, Corey Linsley, Jaire Alexander, Tramon Williams (although aging), Jamaal Williams, Antonio Morrison, Blake Martinez, Tyler Lancaster and Davante Adams come to mind.  Are there others?  Is that enough to improve and get back to the playoffs?

Not having "that guy" at safety has hurt the Packers defense for years, as an example of where the Packers are behind some of the NFL's best teams.  Remember when there were questions about how "tough" the Packers were?  Some said it was a ridiculous question.  Is it, though?

A new head coach is going to bring a new culture to the Packers.  Hopefully with that comes a new attitude that they're first to the ball.  They play fast.  They play together.  They win together.

Whatever the 53-man roster looks like when the 2019 season opens, it needs to be more full of honest-to-God football players.  Please! 

-------------------

Jason is a freelance writer on staff since 2012 and also co-hosts Cheesehead TV Live, Pulse of the Pack and Pack A Day podcasts.  You can follow him on Twitter here

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marpag1's picture

This article lost me from the beginning, tried to make its way back, and never quite recovered. If what we need are "true football players," and "true football players" are defined as "guys like Antonio Morrison and Tyler Lancaster," then I would say we need LESS true football players and more "GOOD football players."

I agree that attitude and desire are important, but to me the real problem is that we have altogether too many Antonio Morrisons and Tyler Lancasters... guys who might make a roster and who maybe even have upside, but simply aren't good enough to be your preferred starters.

The TKstinator's picture

Scouts have used the term “motor” (and “high motor”) for years. That’s what this is.

Handsback's picture

To me it looks like a run blitz where the inside LBs run a cross. Morrison takes off and disrupts the play and Martinez fills his position. I'm not sure it's designed for a delay by Martinez, but either way it's team defense that stops the runner. I get the point, just might not be the best example.

marpag1's picture

Pretty much totally agree. It's self-evident that Morrison's blitz was called in the huddle long before the ball was snapped, and a whole lot of LBs are going to look pretty violent when they get a good running start at a stationary guard. But for the people who say that Martinez was "chilling at the second level," what should he have done better than he actually did? He flows to the ball and fills what would have been a GAPING hole if he hadn't been there. And furthermore, Lancaster didn't really "split the double team" ... the right guard had to peel off of him in order to deal with Martinez, who was exactly where he needed to be, namely pretty much right in the hole and forcing the play back inside. If Martinez does not do what he did, both Lancaster and Morrison would have been out of the play, and there's a whole lot of green grass in front of the ball carrier. As it was, he MAYBE got three yards.

Rebecca's picture

Yeas, Martinez was minding the store on that side lookin for blood. That’s also where a strong safety would come in handy.

Guam's picture

Nailed it TK. Long, winding article that you very accurately summed up in two short sentences. Maybe you should do an article...…..:)

dobber's picture

"If what we need are "true football players," and "true football players" are defined as "guys like Antonio Morrison and Tyler Lancaster," then I would say we need LESS true football players and more "GOOD football players.""

There's a Venn diagram itching to be made, here, but I know who I won't be asking to make it....

The TKstinator's picture

@dob: oh come on now. A Venn diagram isn’t rocket science. It’s not even as complicated as running a whole state...;)

Gort's picture

This article got me from the beginning and it just kept going. Jason nailed it and the video clip is a great example of football players vs JAGS. The Packers roster has too many JAGS. Yeah, I understand injuries took their toll, and backups don't have the same skills as starters, but the backups must be football players too. TT probably passed on a chance to draft Morrison and took just another guy again.

jeepingmakooi's picture

2016 Rd 4 was Morrison's draft position.. Packers took Dean Lowery with the 2016 Rd 4 pick

Gort's picture

Thanks for the research. Plenty of other examples of TT busts immediately followed by a good (sometimes very good and occasionally great) player.

Nick Perry's picture

I used to say this ALL the time....Micah Hyde was a football player and it seems for 4 years he was played out of position like others were in the McCarthy era. Some never forgot the play he DIDN'T make against the 49ers in the playoffs that year. Some never forgot his 40 time at the combine. But make no mistake .... Micah Hyde was a football player.

Coldworld's picture

It should by now be obvious that the catalyst for our decline was the roster management. To many poor drafts, too many rosters built cheap, erroneous release decisions and without players used to their strengths. Of these, only the last point could be blamed on the coaches: was it Capers/MM or did the FO dictate their options?

Bad rosters kill coaches and undermine team efficiency on both offense and defense. That leads to desperation tactics and I think we saw that in both scheme and QB.

Whoever we get as HC, Gute is for me the MVP we need to turn this around this year. We need players who can give Pettine and Rodgers the confidence not to have to gamble on high risk strategies.

Through all this Murphy presides. I believe that this is a travesty. Of all people he carries responsibility for the decline that he oversaw and should be removed.

Razer's picture

...It should by now be obvious that the catalyst for our decline was the roster management. To many poor drafts, too many rosters built cheap, erroneous release decisions and without players used to their strengths...

Well said Coldworld. I hope we have the people in place to upgrade the talent on this team and hire the best coaches to get the most out of these guys.

Barnacle's picture

Coldworld

I also hope we can give up on the McCarthy fantasy of drafting for “versatility “, then bring in the talented prospect and expect him to adjust to NFL speed and learn a new position(or two) that they never played before.

I hope we draft great prospects, not mediocre “jacks of all trades”. Any new coach that has none of the McCarthy influence should be another big improvement.

Rossonero's picture

Hyde was a football player...and a damn good one. I was livid when they didn't even bother to make him an offer.

Now our safety position is a dumpster fire. Damarius Randall was played out of position, Clinton-Dix regressed, and of course we dump a guy like Hyde, who could also return punts and kick-offs, another area this team stinks at. Arghhh

RCPackerFan's picture

The problem with Thompson OR Ball or whoever was actually calling the shots the last few years, is that they didn't retain the talent they did have.

They should have never let Hyde or Hayward go. Shouldn't have let Peppers go either.

While some of it can be blamed on Capers for not playing players in the right positions, a lot of it can be blamed on Thompson for not obtaining him the players he needed to fit needs. Capers basically had to play them out of position because he had no other options.

Jonathan Spader's picture

RC while that's true it doesn't credit TT for getting them to the Packers. Hayward was thought to be replaceable by Randall and Rollins who had great rookie years just like Hauward. Both of then would then face injuries in 2016 and onward and are no longer Packers for very different reasons.

Peppers career was thought to be over when he didn't show up in Chicago. TT & Capers revitalized Peppers' career in GB. He was cut too soon but he was still a great weapon in his time here. Poor guy will never know what it's like to wear a SB ring.

Can we PLEASE move on from the TT let the wrong people go conversation already. It's well past old and gets us nowhere. Gute is the GM and has already moved on from a lot of TT's roster. What more do you want? A time machine? What's done is done, focus on the future instead of dredging up the past. What can we learn from the Packers moving on? Don't cut Perry because he might be good and not injured with another team maybe?

RCPackerFan's picture

I was one that said they shouldn't pay Hyde the money he got. I was wrong, they should have.
And I get why they let Hayward go with Rollins and Randall. But the truth is they should have kept him because the $ he got wasn't great, and they shouldn't have tried to rely on 2 young players to be the guy.

My understanding was that it was Balls decision to let Peppers go. Supposedly McCarthy and Capers went to Thompson to keep him. Now this is all hearsay from reporters, but if true its interesting.

The whole point is, this is why we are where we are. That is what this discussion is about. We are hear because they let go of good players and didn't replace good players we lost. Simple as that.

This is a good talk and discussion. No one is bitching or whining so I don't get what the problem is. If you don't like the conversation then why be a part of it?

Jonathan Spader's picture

I agree that they should have kept Hayward but I feel the same way about Morgan Burnett. I don't hear anyone bringing up his name because he didn't make the probowl like Hyde and Hayward. Not replacing the good players we lost is why I'm part of this discussion. I want to explore what happened with the replacements rather than the players themselves who left. Talking about the players who left sounds exactly like whining to me and that's what the problem is for me personally.

I want to see what Gute does to replace the talent that TT didn't replace. I admire Gute for getting picks for HHCD & Hundley neither was missed in 2018. I want to talk about what parts need replacing and what parts are available via the draft and FA. For me that's more productive and a lot less whiny until they don't draft/sign those players then I whine a little lol.

As usual I really appreciate our back and forth RC.
GO PACK GO!

RCPackerFan's picture

IMO, Burnett was a different situation. He was going into his 2nd NFL contract not his first. Hayward and Hyde were each going into their 1st.

The whole point of talking about players that left is simply telling why we are where we are right now. Not drafting great, and then not keeping the better players that they did draft is a recipe for disaster.

Gutekunst has honestly done a masterful job of getting picks for Clinton-Dix, Hundley and Montgomery. While Montgomery's isn't this year he still got something for a guy he was going to cut.

Also its impressive that he was able to trade Lenzy Pipkins for Morrison. Morrison was a starter and Pipkins didn't make the 53, was signed and released a few times and ultimately is on his 3rd team this season.

I do have faith in Gutekunst. Now with draft season about to get underway, I can't wait to see what he does in his 2nd draft.

Always fun.

Skip greenBayless's picture

To me Jamal Williams is the epitome of a "football player" on this current team. Brett Favre was probably the greatest poster child for a "football player" that ever played. I have no doubt Favre would have played for free. He just loved the game.

Dash

Lphill's picture

Well for all the Khalil Mack lovers , now the Bears are without major draft picks and salary money to build up their team , Trubisky makes more bad throws then good ones , they will be competing with the Lions next season for last place . Looked like a good move at the time but that’s over now . I am glad the Packers didn’t give away the house for him I rather gain multiple playmakers than depend on just one.

Nick Perry's picture

Don't get me wrong...I hate the Bears almost as much as the Vikings (My personal choice on my teams I despise) but I don't think I'd count on a Bears sudden fall. I agree the Packers were absolutely right when they didn't sell the farm AND bank for Mack, but that was something the Bears could do. QB's under rookie deals allow you those luxury's.

Now they experienced an unbelievable run of LUCK this year with the lack of injuries they had and I doubt the defense scores points like they did in 2018 again in 2019, but I wouldn't count on a huge falloff from the Bears. Now if Fangio is lured away that just might make a difference but we'll see.

Instead I hope Gutekunst is able to put together a solid draft with a MIX of offensive and defensive football players. The Packers are in a position where they can pretty much target the BPA and hit a need doing it. 5 picks in the first 115 daft choices is a damn good start. I'll be curious who if anyone he cuts to save a few $$$ despite the dead money on the contract (Nick Perry).

Bure9620's picture

True NP, but the Bears have mortgaged their future to get Mack losing those 1st rounders. They will soon have to pay their QB, QB money. They are not set up great for the future.

Nick Perry's picture

Was it 3 or 2 and a 2nd? I'll have to take a look at the trade again and their cap situation past 2019. I know they don't have a ton of money for next season...About $19 million

Community Guy's picture

the Bears traded their 2019 1st rounder (pick #24) and their 2020 1st rounder. there are some other picks involved also, but, that is the crux of the trade. according to Spotrac, Mack's 2019 cap hit will be $22M + while the Bears estimated cap space is less than $20M (the last figure is certain to change).

HankScorpio's picture

They traded their 2019 second to get Anthony Miller in 2018. For Mack & Oak/LV's 2020 2nd, they traded 2019 1st & 6th and 2020 1st and 3rd. They also traded a conditional 7th for Deiondre Hall. I have no clue if the condition was met.

So in total, they have their 3rd, 4th, 5th and maybe their 7th for 2019.

Their list of FAs is not exactly a Who's Who of the top end of their roster but does have some contributors in Bobby Massey, Bryce Callahan, Adrian Amos, Aaron Lynch and 6th OL Eric Kush

dobber's picture

The Bears will sustain for a couple years, and Trubisky is still 3 years away (including the 5th year option) from decision time on that contract. Their window is still pretty open. After they were ravaged by injuries last season, they only lost a couple key players this year. The pieces fell into place...which is what most teams need. The QB is the linchpin for them: he'll likely get better, but he still frequently only plays half the field and makes some poor throws (he's Colin Kaepernick with a little less running and a little more proficiency throwing the ball). If Philly hadn't been playing that overmatched CB for most of the game, I don't know if the Bears come back last night.

I would argue that this is the current model for NFL teams: get a QB on a rookie deal you think you can win with, and then fill out your cap with other pieces around him before you need to pay him. Philly did it last year with Wentz (and were bailed out by Foles), Houston and the Rams are trying it now. Plenty of counter-arguments, but this is what several teams are doing.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Dobber the list goes on for rookie QBs. Bucs and Titans tried with Mariota and Winston Cowgirls are the ones that had success with Prescott taking the RB 1st and getting QB late. This past year Cardinals, Bills, Jets, Browns, to some degree the Ravens with Lamar Jackson. The most obvious miss from your list is the Chiefs with Mahomes.

The Seahawks started this trend with Russle Wilson and teams have been trying to repeat that success. Unfortunately for them Wilsons don't grow on trees. Unfortunately for Seattle the league cracked down on their CBs grabbing and redirecting WRs at the LOS.

Here's hoping Rodgers returns to form and we enjoy success the way the Saints have. A veteran QB and a few good drafts along with an elite OC/HC. GO PACK GO!

Rebecca's picture

Well written post. These teams are developing modern team building trends. Salaries need to be brought back down to earth for these teams to be able to pay mega-star contracts like Rodgers, Khalil, Carr, etc. We shall see what kinds of roster value can be maintained long term like say a Patriots or Steelers type team.

HankScorpio's picture

"The Bears will sustain for a couple years, and Trubisky is still 3 years away (including the 5th year option) from decision time on that contract. Their window is still pretty open."

They are clearly trying to take full advantage of Trubisky's rookie deal. They gave away their developmental ammo to get established players. Their plan is to put a great team around him until he's ready to shoulder a bigger load. Once his rookie deal is up, they will either need to find another QB and start over or let some talent walk. Either way, it's a transition.

The key part of that plan is Trubisky and whether he starts to play like a star. He did ok yesterday. But that Eagle defense was giving up 15-25 yards down the right sideline pretty easily.

In the end, they lost at home to a team that was barely above .500. Not a horrible year 1 of the 3-4 year plan but not a great one either.

Oh, and Cody Parkey's 2019 salary is fully guaranteed. So if they cut him, they are still going to have to pay him.

Nick Perry's picture

"If Philly hadn't been playing that overmatched CB for most of the game, I don't know if the Bears come back last night."

I don't know about you dobber or other Packers fans for that matter but every time they threw at that CB I was screaming "Give him some F***ing HELP! With Burton out it's not like the Bears are overrun with WR talent. I couldn't understand why Schwartz didn't give him help. You'd better believe Sean Payton, Michael Thomas, and Drew Brees were licking their chops watching that kid struggle.

I'm officially A Philly fan next week and probably a Rams fan the following week should the Saints beat the Eagles and the Rams beat the Cowboys.

Wow next weekend could be "Priceless"..... Nick Foles and the Eagles somehow shock the Saints improving the Packers pick from the Saints, AND I wouldn't have to look at Jerry Jones hugging anyone and everybody he can reach! The stupid look on Jones gets on his face in defeat is one my favorite in all of sports.

Thebearsstillsuck's picture

Since Trubisky was the 2nd pick, his 5th year option is going to be 20 million plus, probably almost 25. Jamies Winstons is for 21 million next year, so is Marcus Mariotas. I get that it gives them another year without having to commit long term money, but it's no longer a 6 or 7 million dollar a year "discount" either. So they have 2 years in the window of a cheap QB

dobber's picture

Very true...but as you note, the long-term commitment is a key piece, I think, as they can manipulate other contracts to make that one-year hit more manageable.

packerbackerjim's picture

Actually it’s 6 picks in the first 115, thank you Ha Ha.

Nick Perry's picture

Your right...Thank you for the correction!

LambeauPlain's picture

How will the bares D play next year with a new DC after Fangio departs for a HC gig?

My guess is the begin their familiar and predictable tumble back to mediocrity.

cheddarhead's picture

Aaron Jones is on that good true football player list.

Rossonero's picture

Nick Perry: I heard on talk radio this morning that the Bears also played the NFL's easiest schedule this season, when all their opposing team's regular season records were shaken out.

That said, that will not happen again in 2019. They will not be sneaking up on anyone then.

marpag1's picture

You can sum up the Bears season in one word:

Doink!

Actually, it was the dreaded "Duple Doink," which is twice as nice for Packer fans. While the ball is taking its sweet time clanging off the upright and then lazily bouncing off the crossbar, you actually have time to see the hearts of Bear fans breaking in the bleachers. Between the Vikings and the Bears both crying in their beer, it almost makes this season tolerable.

Almost.

Old School's picture

The Bears season began in agony when they fell to a furious 4th quarter comeback in the opener. It ended in agony when the kick bounced out.

Bears tears are sweet. Their cries of pain are music to my ears.

CAG123's picture

Aw come on it’s so easy to say that now that they lost but let’s be real the trade was well worth it Mack isn’t the end all be all of that def they still have Eddie Jackson, Kyle Fuller, Akiem Hicks, Trevathan, Roquan Smith etc Mack was the icing on the cake that took this def to the next level. It’s not like they went in there and got blown out by the Eagles the def did their job and they played the game offensively the way the have most of the season. They gave up some “what if”, “could be”, “hope so” picks for a guarantee.

With all that said I’m glad they lost lol

Gort's picture

That is the longest sentence ever.

CAG123's picture

It’s 3 sentences....troll harder clown this isn’t an essay lol

Gort's picture

"Aw come on it’s so easy to say that now that they lost but let’s be real the trade was well worth it Mack isn’t the end all be all of that def they still have Eddie Jackson, Kyle Fuller, Akiem Hicks, Trevathan, Roquan Smith etc Mack was the icing on the cake that took this def to the next level."

Looks like one sentence to me.

"edit" I didn't give you the dislike.
"edit 2" Changed my mind - not a troll and not IT.

CAG123's picture

I couldn’t care less about a dislike. My comment still stands this isn’t an essay go teach an English class if you’re getting your panties in a twist over a long sentence.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Cag123 shouldn't have thrown that . in there after dislike lol

Bure9620's picture

I understand what you are getting at, I am an Antonio Morrisson fan for this reason. Gute is turning this roster over, HHCD was an "anti" football player as was Randall. It's impossible to turn the roster over in one offseason. You can chuck these other anti players

Bell
Brice
Pleasant
House
Ryan
Perry
Kendricks
Lewis
Graham
Moore
McCray
Bulaga ( yes he is done and protecting himself)
Wilkerson

Nick Perry's picture

During the last Packers game they showed a stat of the number of players from the 2017 Packers still on the 2018 roster. IIRC it was something like 19 or something like that but whatever the number was the Packers were one of the teams with the most turnover from 2017 to 2018.

"Gute is turning this roster over, HHCD was an "anti" football player."

First of all that was funny as hell and pretty damn accurate. I was listening to a podcast from a couple of guys from PFF IIRC and they were still questioning the HHCD trade. BUT what was funny was they said "HHCD hasn't played well as a Redskin"... Well my GOD...Did you even watch him as a GBP?

I like what Gute is doing and am hopeful for a strong offseason. It HAD to get worse before it got better didn't it?

croatpackfan's picture

There is no way you can fill all those positions within one draft and one year FA...

You always need to count that you'll not get all of them good and even less of them excellent!

Coldworld's picture

Ryan is for me very much the same as Morrison, yet you would let him leave?

If you believe Morrison is simply more talented then I disagree but at least see the logic. However, the key to success is having talent and effort. Neither is enough on its own. A few try hard situational pieces are helpful, but ultimately the goal must be more than that.

dobber's picture

I think the difference is that Ryan will be coming off a second knee reconstruction (Morrison has had one, too) and will be off his rookie deal. You're right: these two guys fill pretty much the same role and do pretty much the same things (with the same shortcomings). I think Ryan will be allowed to walk and the Packers will keep Morrison (with the appropriate coaching changes disclaimer applied).

Jonathan Spader's picture

It all comes down to value. How much is Ryan willing to sign for? Does he have a market on FA after being JAG and now having an injury? I like Ryan as a run stopper he did a great job of finding the running lanes and clogging them. I've had multiple ACL surgeries you lose a step. Ryan wasn't fast to begin with can he still contribute in 2019? I think he can because speed was never the focus of his game.

byu.tech's picture

we need playmakers because Ted missed on them for 4 straight years.
lancaster and morrison are just depth

Coldworld's picture

Lancaster may turn out to be a true run stuffer. You need one so that Clarke and Daniels can get some time off. That is a key attribute to have on a team, not mere depth, and one we have been missing for some time.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Have we depth at DE which showed up this year when Wilkerson & Daniels went down. Adams showed some hustle for a big man. Lowry blocked some passes and was disruptive. Lancaster showed off his athleticism. Once Clark went down though all we had left was depth pieces with a ceiling but lower floor. Here's hoping some of those depth pieces take a step forward and become bigger contributors in the future.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

The Bears didn't "mortgage their future" by trading 2 first rounders for a proven stud pass-rusher. That's wishful thinking.

How much better has *Kevin King made the Packers? How much better did Datone Jones make the Packers? Haha? Knick Perry?

To think that the grey ghost passed on the bloodline in TJ Watt for the mercurial, questionable attitude, wirey-thin, fragile Kevin King still ticks me off.

But so does, still, passing on Randy Moss for Vonnie Holliday in 1998 (and then in 2007), and letting Seattle get Marshawn Lynch from Buffalo when the Bills & Packers "almost" made a deal....

Coldworld's picture

Not having a pick guarantees no upgrade. Citing busts does not make this a rational or viable argument.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Coldwater,

The mistake you made is thinking EddieLeeIvory is capable of making a viable argument. Read any of his posts what he's here for is a temper tantrum. Let him have his moment.

CAG123's picture

Yeah but there is also no guarantee that pick will be anything so you can’t call it an upgrade until the player actually upgrades the position. Picks are 50/50 there is no way around that Mack was as close to a sure thing that you could get.

Community Guy's picture

it isn't just the sacrifice of the 2 first round picks that Chicago gave up.. the Bears are paying Mack elite QB money. Mack's cap hit this year will be around $22M, next year: $24M. all of the Bears eggs are in the Trubisky basket. if Trubisky is Bortles, the Bears are sunk, if Trubisky succeeds, he will get a mammoth 2nd contract, which will put the Bears in Cap Hell. the Mack contract almost guarantees that the Bears' window is only the duration of Trubisky's rookie deal. after "cheap Trubisky", the Bears are going to be faced with some difficult decisions.

dobber's picture

I should've read ahead before posting my comment above.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Jonathan Spader's picture

He hit the nail but not solely in the head. The Jaguars didn't trade picks to get Bortles they drafted him because of their poor record. The Bears mortgaged the future to draft Turdbisket in a move I will never understand but will always make me laugh. Why give up so much to move from 3 to 2? Not worth it.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I think Chicago can afford the Mack deal cap wise. Not having a 2nd round pick (because they gave it away in a different deal) makes things look bad for 2019.

I don't think Chicago makes the playoffs in 2019 without Mack. I'd do it again were I the Chicago GM.

marpag1's picture

Agree. If I'm the Chicago GM I would definitely do it again. I admit that I was wrong about this when the trade went down. I thought the Bears gave up way too much. In hindsight, I don't think my mistake was in how I graded Mack. I think the mistake was that I didn't realize how much better a single premium player would make an already solid defense.

People sometimes make assumptions here that I don't think are right. They assume, "If the Bears were able to swing the trade and pay the contract, then the Packers could have pulled it off, too." Or they assume, "If Mack was able to make the Bears defense so much better, he would have had the same level of impact in Green Bay." I don't think either of those assumptions are very sound.

Lare's picture

There Bears invested a lot of resources to get to one-and-done in the playoffs this year.

marpag1's picture

No argument here. But the Bears have a few years yet to make good on the Mack signing. And if I recall, the Packers also signed a pretty hefty contract with that Aaron Rodgers dude, and the Packers went "none-and-done."

Just saying.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Lare, and the Packers invested a lot of resources in an aging qb to go 6-9-1 and no playoffs. I think Chicago not only comes out ahead but they are set for a long run. They have the defense and a young rising star qb. They have the perfect formula for long term success but Trubisky is the key. The Packers have question marks all over the place player wise, no head coach and front office power struggles. Oh that's right we have 5 draft picks in the first whatever picks. What if those draft picks turn out to be busts? We have a lot we need to go right for this team to turn around next year. The Bears just need to stay healthy and build off true momentum.

Jonathan Spader's picture

I think their momentum bounced around like their failed FG Dash. You're assuming the Packers draft will fail and that Turdbisket will suddenly become elite. How is Turdbisket a rising star? Based off of draft status? Flashes?

How can you have FO power struggles without a HC? The FO will sort itself out. Gute has given us hope based off of his 1st draft. We have a hell of a lot more resources in 2019 and 2020 than the Bears. We invested cap in Rodgers. Bears invested cap and picks the Packers came out ahead. We can restock the cupboard the Bears can't.

You say the Bears just need to stay healthy like it's that easy. All teams need to stay healthy but it's the football gods that determine player health. This is the 1st time in a long time the Bears have had the football gods smile upon them and it got them to a 1 and done in the playoffs.

Skip greenBayless's picture

My point with the Bears is they have stability across the board. The front office, the head coach, the young rising star qb and a no. 1 defense. These players are ALL young. They all have room to get better and that's scary. You might hate the Bears I get it being a Packers fan but do you really honestly believe all these young rising stars on the Bears will suddenly drop off the face of the Earth? I don't. I'm just being realistic. They are a damn good football team. I think they have enough draft capital left the next two years to solve their weakest link, the kicker. When your kicker is your biggest problem you're probably doing something right.

The Packers fortunes are all based on wishful thinking that all these tough decisions they need to make in the next couple months will all be home runs. Gute's track record in the draft and free agency has been a bust except for Alexander. The Packers might have more "resources" but you still need to make the right decisions so they don't piss away those resources. I can only base what Gute has done in one year and based on that I'm not liking our odds.

Coldworld's picture

Mack is a premium player, no doubt. It is true that the Bears can afford him given that their QB is on a rookie deal. It is true that the Bears has a good defense this year. Perhaps more interesting is the dynamic. By putting this much into Mack, the Bears are mortgaging their offense to their defense again.

Lacking in picks and with star veteran QB money tied up in Mack, the Bears are in an interesting place. How do they grow. Their D is not likely to get vastly better: it is good already. As a result, their players will attract interest if they approach the market, pushing up costs further. If Trubisky really comes on they might wiggle through, but to me, a little offensive luck and a new offense laden with tricks was needed to carry them to the playoffs even with Mack.

I could be wrong, but I don’t see the Bears as well set up to become a true powerhouse unless they can become a consistent offense. Without the millions for Mack, that will require productive offensive drafting and Trubisky to kick on developmentally.

For me they are the Packers in reverse. No AR, but a premium rush versus no rush and a premium QB. It will be interesting to see which team is best placed for the next few years if the Packers can change that equation with successful outside rush drafting.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Nice take Coldworld. Agree with most of what you said except for one thing. I don't think Aaron Rodgers is a "premium qb" anymore. Most will disagree with me I'm quite sure but next year Trubisky moves into top 5 to 10 qb's in the NFL easily passing Rodgers who's quickly moving the other way. He's a future star and that's why the Bears will be there for a very long time despite losing the top draft picks the next two years. That last drive to put them into position to win that game was magnificent. Rodgers used to be able to make those throws a few years ago that Trubisky made on that last drive. When you have a young rising qb on your roster that doesn't cost you Aaron Rodgers money than you can make a move for a Mack. I'm telling you the Bears are going to be contenders for a long long time no matter what GB does.

RCPackerFan's picture

We need Play Makers!!!

The problem with our team is we haven't added enough top end talent in the last few years. This is a drafting problem.

The greatest problem with Thompson is he has focused so much on defense he has missed out on some really good offensive players. In which they could have kept our offense humming. And its not just missing out on offensive players that has hurt.

Here are some of the missed opportunities that are still haunting us today.
2012 - Drafted Nick Perry with the 28th pick. Pick 29 - Harrison Smith.
2013 - Drafted Datone Jones with pick 26. Pick 27 - DeAndre Hopkins. Imagine having Hopkins.
2014 - Drafted Clinton-Dix with the 21st pick. While I am fine with the pick, had they chosen Harrison 2 years prior they could have possibly drafted Dee Ford (2 picks later), Deeone Bucannon (6 picks later), Demarcus Lawrence 13 picks later.
In 2014 the Clinton-Dix pick was ok. The biggest problem was they chose Khyri Thornton and Richard Rodgers in the 3rd round. Carl Bradford in the 4th round.
2015 was a disaster of a draft.

The draft has really hurt our team. Hopefully Gutekunst can build off a good first draft.
We need to build a stronger core and add more play makers.
We honestly have a good core of players right now. But we need more!

Nick Perry's picture

You bring up an excellent point, one I think many Packers fans forget about. HAD Thompson drafted Harrison instead of Perry he doesn't waste his 4th rounder on McMillian or his first rounder in 2014. I think sometimes (I know I do) forget the ripple effect these picks have on the following drafts down the road. To make it worse Perry even SAID he wanted to play in a 4-3 defense, he didn't want to be a 3-4 OLB. I think you also have to factor in Kevin Greene leaving after 2013 and never being properly replaced was big too.

You mentioned the draft has really hurt our team and I agree. To bad it was happening when our GM used the draft as his sole place for adding talent. The cupboards were getting awfully bare.

RCPackerFan's picture

Its crazy how taking one player over another can create a huge ripple effect. And the problem with it is that one wrong decision, makes them keep trying to go after the same position over and over.

Yeah, If I remember right Perry said that. Now if Perry wouldn't have been injury prone he probably would have been a really good pick. When healthy he has been good. But he hasn't been healthy enough.

The problem with that pick is that they lost Nick Collins in 2011. They could have chosen his replacement the very next draft. Instead stuck with late round and undrafted free agents to try and replace him.

Well to it isn't just the poor drafting its also not retaining the good players we did have in those drafts.

dobber's picture

We can audit every draft in retrospect for just about every team and make cases like this. The idea in general is that player procurement at most levels--draft, FA, resignings--let this team down for the last several years. The draft was just one symptom of the overall affliction.

RCPackerFan's picture

Oh definitely. Every team can say they wished they would have drafted this player or that player.

The problem is the Packers only used the draft to upgrade talent in that stretch. And they were focused on improving the defense they let the offense slide.
By focusing on need they let good players get away from them.

I have brought up this before but since Thompson drafted Cobb in 2011 they only drafted Adams (2nd round 2014) and Montgomery (3rd round 2015) in rounds 1-4.
Since drafting Finley in the 3rd round in 2008, they only drafted Richard Rodgers (3rd round 2014) in round 1-4.

This is why the offense has suffered since 2011. They haven't been adding enough talent to the position. To keep a strength a strength you have to keep adding to it. They failed in that area.

Hopefully Gutekunst changes that.

HankScorpio's picture

"The idea in general is that player procurement at most levels--draft, FA, resignings--let this team down for the last several years."

It started when they lost McKenzie, Schneider and Dorsey in quick succession. I'm not sure they have recovered from those departures to this day. It's gotten marginally better but there are still too many big mistakes. Highsmith and Wolf walking away last year probably didn't help any.

I really hope they can lure Reggie McKenzie back.

Coldworld's picture

I am not sure that you are not putting the cart before the horse. It is possible that these folks left as much because of the approach being taken as for the opportunity.

We will never know when the Russ Ball era started for sure perhaps, but I agree his ascendency into roster construction was disastrous.

Gman1976's picture

How many GMS have said "IF I would have drafted Rodgers....and IF...."

Razer's picture

...
2012 - Drafted Nick Perry with the 28th pick. Pick 29 - Harrison Smith.
2013 - Drafted Datone Jones with pick 26. Pick 27 - DeAndre Hopkins. Imagine having Hopkins.
2014 - Drafted Clinton-Dix with the 21st pick. While I am fine with the pick, had they chosen Harrison 2 years prior they could have possibly drafted Dee Ford (2 picks later), Deeone Bucannon (6 picks later), Demarcus Lawrence 13 picks later.
In 2014 the Clinton-Dix pick was ok. The biggest problem was they chose Khyri Thornton and Richard Rodgers in the 3rd round. Carl Bradford in the 4th round.
2015 was a disaster of a draft.
...

My God RCPackerFan you are depressing the crap out of me. This list must have the rest of the league smiling because it is a disaster. For a draft and develop team, you could not have asked for a worse scenario. I am surprised that Ted Thompson wasn't moved to the side many years ago. I also wonder what the rest of the personnel and scouting staff were doing with these results.

jeepingmakooi's picture

Who did we have at receiver nin 2013 though.. at the time do you think the team thought a wr was needed to fix something back then?

RCPackerFan's picture

Sorry. I guess its depression Monday.

The GOOD news though is we have a GM that now is willing to use all means necessary to improve the roster.

In his first year he signed FA's. He made trades. He made draft day trades moving up and down. He added another 1st round pick for this year through those trades.

Overall I think he did well in his first draft. Out of his 11 picks only 1 (Cole Madison) was with the team the whole year. Alexander looks like he could be our lock down CB for years. Jackson had rookie mistakes, but showed potential. Burks was improving until he got hurt early. Moore needs to show he can hold onto the ball, or might be in danger of not making it in year 2. Scott had some ups and downs but overall is really good. MVS and EQ added a lot to the offense. Looney and Donnerson will have to fight to make the roster next year but at least have some skills to work with. Bradley was the LS and overall I don't recall many bad snaps.
There were a few UDFA's that performed well too. Brown and Lancaster were really good overall.
I also liked that he picked up Jamerson and Lazard. They could be guys to really watch next year.

Its not just the draft though. He went out and brought in veterans. Tramon Williams, Graham, Wilkerson, Bell, Breeland, Lewis, Pleasant, Vitale. He also traded for Morrison.

While the roster has needs, I don't think they are that far off. They need to shore up OLB and S. Offense a new scheme should be an upgrade alone.

Guitar dan's picture

I agree somewhat although you also have to factor in:

*The Bears were very average until their coach Nagy was hired, he has the right attitude to inspire and make his guys "buy in".
*Mix in a few "hits" like Eddie Jackson (who the Packers passed on in favor of Beigel) in the draft.
*Add a couple of free-agents like Mack and Robinson and fortunes can turn quickly in the NFL!

I have great hope for a quick turn around in Green Bay!

The Packers management know the Aaron Rodgers window is short, they are going to be "all in" this off-season with the draft and free agency!

Murphy & Gutekunst are also aware that:

* Some players reach new levels and have career years when the right coach comes along and puts them in a position to succeed.

* Many players will make that 2nd or 3rd year jump next season and some of these young guys are still learning how to be pro's and are still developing into their football bodies.

*This is no time to be cheap or short sighted, Murphy has sent a message that he is not going to settle for mediocrity on his watch, it took guts to fire McCarthy make no doubt.

This will be one of the most interesting and exciting off-seasons in decades!

There's no place to go but up!

Go Pack!

Jonathan Spader's picture

Nagy has not been the reason for the Bears success. He was brought in to improve their offense. The Bears offense still sucks. Fangio will more than likely get a HC opportunity somewhere else and you'll see the Bears defense crumble the way Atlanta's offense did when Shanahan went to the 49ers.

"The Packers management know the Aaron Rodgers window is short, they are going to be "all in" this off-season with the draft and free agency!"

Based on what? We just extended Rodger's contract. Hiw is another 4-5 years a short window? Gute is a disciple of TT I do not see him mortgaging the future because you think he should. We are always all in with the draft how is 2019 any different? What makes FA different in 2019 is how much more cap space we have and Gute not TT running the show.

I agree that this will be a fascinating offseason. We have a new HC coming in for the 1st time in 13 years. Gute has dramatically improved the athleticism on the Packers roster in 1 year and has another year to do it again. I can't wait for the draft, FA, and CHTV's draft guide! Go Pack Go!

egbertsouse's picture

I’ve said this before but I’m old and get to repeat myself. When Max McGee was doing the radio and people would go on about how big,fast, and athletic draft picks were he would say, “Yeah, but can they play football?” If the answer is “yes” put them on the team.

Rossonero's picture

This team is just devoid of talent. Sure, we have talented guys at key positions like LT, QB, WR, DT, etc., but simply not enough. And when only 3 players are on the roster from the 2013 - 2015 drafts, you don't cover up those warts in one draft and one free agency class.

If it took Ted 3-4 years of bad drafting to dig this hole, then it's fair to believe it'll take at least 2-3 years of good drafting to dig out of it. However, with Rodgers, I think he can shorten that turnaround time to 2 years if Gutekunst nails the 2019 draft and free agency.

stockholder's picture

You want Football players? Don't pick need! Packers draft Rd. 1: Every flop is a reach. Randall, Dix, D. Jones. and I can go on with other clubs. Most will say it doesn't matter. It's Luck and a crap shoot. Well just stop. I don't believe Gute won the draft last year. He got lucky. Lucky Rd. 1. And thats whats wrong. Luck has nothing to do with this. And Gutes about to do it again. @ Safety. Just because everyone has a kid high, doesn't mean he's the right pick. Great Character does not make you good on the field. Being smart does not get you a player with heart. Leadership is priority one. Can the guy lead by example. Is he a man of his word or a dreamer. Why draft Tarzan and get Jane? Gute needs players. I don't care if he drafts a WR, over a LB. Just get the better player. Size was never an issue in the Hall of Fame. People have forgotten what should be easy. The guy that stands out is the guy you go after. We trade for picks. It's time Gute trades for players!

Jonathan Spader's picture

Stockholder,

I can usually follow your posts but I think your caffeine didn't kick in this morning. Do me a favor buddy and please explain to me what the point you're trying to make is. I honestly have no idea.

Edit: Also Gute did trade for a player the player mentioned so fondly by Chris Peterson. We got Morrison by trading Pipkins who was later on cut by the Colts. Picks also turn into players...

Razer's picture

I think he is advocating for BPA period - OR - buy good beer if you are going to drink beer. I like beer and the best player available.

Jonathan Spader's picture

BBA = Best Beer Available. I must be more in line with TT than I thought since PBR is JAB = Just Another Beer.

Razer's picture

ha ha

stockholder's picture

Morrison for pipkins. Nothing for nothing. What is the love for Morrison? He'll be beat out by Ryan if they sign him. Burks should have been able to replace Morrison. So I have that going down as a BUST. A 3 and 4 and you don't get a guy that starts? BAD MOVE ! Bad Trade now.= Randall for Kizer and a 4th. Thats gone the wrong way since they traded Dix later. (Another bad move. For a 4th?) Gute was hired for the future!!!!! Remember? And where did Biegel end up? Making the club on the Saints. If they don't take the best player available regardless of Position. He'll fail as a GM. He'll Try and make up for it with poor signings. This club is walking a 4' beam to the late 60s. After Starr!

Jonathan Spader's picture

The love for Morrison is he stepped up in Ryan's absence. Neither one can cover and both lack speed. Pettine schemed for Morrison so he could get an easy sack. Morrison followed through and wrapped up Stafford when other Packer players in the same situation failed to do so.

stockholder's picture

But you don't say he's the answer! Because he isn't. The stats for are LBs just don't show championship quality. Especially Morrison!

Jonathan Spader's picture

He definitely is not the answer he's JAG who Pettine made look good stockholder. Doesn't mean I don't like the guy or value him as a Packer I just want better. I want a game changer. We don't have that and Morrison was serviceable.

Coldworld's picture

Agree, useful role player—one needs some of those—not a starter. We need the starter caliber players with some Morrison types behind them for situational use given salary cap reality.

Too often we have had hoped-to-be-something reserves that seldom became true role players. Guys like Williams and Shields are exceptions that come around rarely (and they were more than role players I know).

Unfortunately, I think TT became lulled into thinking he could find more of these gems and cheaply, allowing him and ball to manage the salary cap effectively. Unfortunately, it led to the roster mess we are in today.

Packers0808's picture

My thinking is too many people are thinking the Packers are going to bounce back in a big way next year! Don't count on it, unless some thing happens with Rodgers and he is only one player we are going to be lucky to get back to 500 next season. Not doomsday, but we lack a lot of areas where we have quality players and need to get very lucky in the draft or damn good in hitting on FA. Our FA were really mediocre to poor this year! I don't think the putting of this Gute guy in power of where he is was the right choice! Like players I think the backers let some really good office guys go and like on the field left us with mediocrity in the front office!

Razer's picture

...My thinking is too many people are thinking the Packers are going to bounce back in a big way next year! Don't count on it, unless some thing happens with Rodgers and he is only one player we are going to be lucky to get back to 500 next season...

Totally agree. We have a fair amount of holes to fill, a QB who needs therapy and a new coaching staff to build. Look for markets to improve in 2020.

stockholder's picture

You guys are correct. The schedule is a tough one. WE didn't beat anyone in our division. And if anybody thinks your going to do it with major changes, Their head is up their butt. Management has become salesmen. They aren't in touch with what it takes to win. Wishing Wells are for miracles. They believe in Dice throwing, and not trying for the best. Mission impossible has come to Green Bay. Find a way. Don't talk about it!

Jonathan Spader's picture

If my head is up my butt instead of green and gold do I become brown? Is that why so many if the Packer FO wound up in Cleveland? Now it all makes sense!

packerbackerjim's picture

Putting on my glass-half full goggles, a second draft by Gute, how big a jump by second year players (Particularly Burks and Jackson) will go a long way in turning this around. Add a HC and competent assistant coaches who will eliminate egregiously stupid mistakes is yet another plus. I can’t fault the effort and character the roster put forth, but sacrificing talent is not part of the equation.

Old School's picture

There used to be a guy named Garrison Keilor who did this radio program about a place where everybody is above average.

Between the combines, the pro days, the scouting departments, free agency, injuiries, etc...…..there really isn't a huge difference in the talent between 4-12 and 12-4.

It'd be nice if we had above average players at all spots, but it's just not possible. We have 11 guys who are on veteran contracts and everybody else is on their rookie deal. Of the 40 some guys in this category, only a few will ever receive a second deal from us.

And then injuries hit and you're starting Lancaster and Brown instead of Clark and King.

You will never, ever, ever succeed in building more talent than the rest of the teams in the league. Some of them, temporarily, maybe. But when you get down to the final 8 like we are now......these teams all have pretty good talent at different positions, and they also have lots of JAGs who line up and try not to hurt the team.

Razer's picture

I am optimistic about Gute with the following reservations:

- I would rather see our GM have control of the next coach selection rather than Mark Murphy.
- I hope that the Jimmy Graham FA signing was just a miscalculation. It is a lot of money to bury on a guy who finished playing football way back in New Orleans.
- I need to see how he eventually handles our lack of a viable backup QB. Kizer is a prettier Hundley.
- I want to see how long it takes Gute to fix our safety problem.

Finding better players and drafting BPA is critical to this team turning around. This off-season is going to tell us if Gutekunst has what it takes. So far he is 50/50 on rebuilding this team.

Since '61's picture

Many good comments on this thread so far. So I don't have much to add. I'll just say that I have been posting since the 2016 debacle in the NFCCG against Atlanta that we need better players and that we should also keep in mind that Murphy was in charge the entire time that our team's roster was noticeably declining.

MM had his faults with loyalty to his DC and his ST coach. Rodgers has been injured for the better part of the last 2 seasons. But Murphy was focused on his "Titletown" playground while TT was "drafting and developing" for a future that never happened because his picks were not good enough. Now he is involved with selecting our next HC!!!???

Finish the house cleaning, chuck Murphy.
Thanks, Since '61

Jonathan Spader's picture

What's with the hate for Titletown and Murphy? Murphy's Titletown allows GB to be competitive with Billionaire team owners from a tiny town in Wisconsin. Why not admire what Murphy has accomplished and wish he focused on the team's FO more instead of just calling for his head? Seems extremely petty to me. I think Murphy has done a great job as a CEO.

He should have fired MM, TT, Sloccum, Zook, Moss, etc. sooner but Rodgers masked a lot of the warts the Packers had and revenue was rolling in. As a CEO a lot of people think if it ain't broke don't fix it. Murphy is attempting to fix it now and Pettine was a great hire. It's time CHTV commentors gave credit along with the blame.

Razer's picture

...I think Murphy has done a great job as a CEO...

As a business development CEO, he has done what was expected and done a pretty good job.

...He should have fired MM, TT, Sloccum, Zook, Moss, etc. sooner...

As a football guy, he was asleep at the wheel to the point that we have deep problems. I might argue that one person having business development and team competitiveness is a bad combination. Still, if that was his power, he did well on one front and neglected the other front.

Since '61's picture

Thank you Razer, you have made my point perfectly. Thanks, Since '61

Since '61's picture

Jonathan - Razer's reply has hit the nail on the head. But speaking for myself I posted here previously that I was concerned that while the Packers were focused on "Titletown" the football side of the Packers organization was declining.

Murphy claims to be a football guy so if that is true where was he? Or more importantly why didn't realize what was happening with the team's roster, Rodgers covering up not withstanding?

Now let's get to his real estate development. The concept for creating new revenue streams is a sound one. However, in doing that, as a CEO you must never lose sight of your core business or your "cash cow". Why? Because that is what sustains your ability to create new revenue streams.

What does that mean for the Packers? They have a 20+ year waiting list for season tickets and they have their revenue sharing from the league.
They have a fan base that will donate money to help improve the team's facilities in exchange for glorified thank you cards that we call shares. I know because I have contributed to each of the Packers share offers over the last 20-25 years. OK, that's fine that's my choice to give back to the team and I believe in giving back to the other causes I support including the Packers.

Now we have "Titletown". What is the success of "title town" based on? It is based on people coming to Green Bay year round. Why go to Green Bay? Because of the Packers. What will happen to Titletown if the Packers are not winning? Who will go there in the offseason if the Packers return to a 70s/80s type of run? Diehards like us here on the blog, sure we'll go. Hell I went to Green Bay back in the 80s when the team was bad and have probably made 20+ trips up there since the early '80s, admittedly some were for business but most were to see games at Lambeau.

My point is Titletowns success as a destination is dependent upon the Packers success on the field. The success of the core business. Take your eye off the core and the rest is just a "white elephant". More importantly it changes how you make decisions about the team because now you become focused on chasing the elusive quick fix. Was Rodgers signed to such a large contract because of his talent or because he brings people to Green Bay? Probably some of both. What happens when he retires or is injured again or never gets back to MVP Rodgers?

What becomes of Titletown then? I don't fault Murphy for trying to develop new revenue streams I fault him for taking his eye off of the on field side of the Packers organization. Most of us here agree that TT, MM and others were retained too long. Who's accountable for that? And as for Pettine that was Gute's/MMs hire, I don't think Murphy was involved. In any case all of Murphy's captains have now gone down with the ship. What does that tell us about him and more importantly what does that tell us about his future decision making? Thanks, Since '61

Guitar dan's picture

Excellent points!
Murphy should be lauded for the good work he has done to keep the Packers relevant.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Thanks Guitar Da. All I was trying to say is Murphy deserves the credit along with the blame.

Donster's picture

I agree with you Since '61 that Murphy must go. Unfortunately it wasn't taken care of the day that McCarthy was shown the door. Murphy has indeed ignored what has been happening over the past four years or so, letting TT have his way on everything. The Board of Directors have a part in this too. They ignored the situation. As long as big money was coming in the door, they were happy, and got complacent.

I don't know who Murphy and Gute is going to hire as HC. I worry about McDaniels, as who is going to want to be his assistants after the Colts debacle last year. Can he really real in Rodgers? I think Belichick could. But he isn't an option.

I like Flores more than I do McDaniels. I think he is a hands on guy with all phases of the game, much like Belichick. And I feel players will go to the mat for him, as will the assistants he brings in. He doesn't seem to have a big ego that needs to be stroked like McDaniels.

We have put up with Mike "The QB Whisperer" McCarthy for years now. Do we hire another so called "QB Whisperer" in McDaniels? I'd rather have a "Team Whisperer". A guy that makes all his coaches and players accountable. McCarthy didn't do that.

As for players, Gute and whoever the new coach is needs to fix the offensive line, first and foremost. If that offensive line can give Rodgers time, then and only then will the new HC be able to get Rodgers on the right path. And if that does happen, then our current stable of WR's will get much better, because Rodgers can make them better. They don't have to be and Antonio Brown or Julio Jones. There aren't that many of them that come around every year. It is the system and the QB playing within that system that makes the WR's on the team. New England has made their WR's and TE's great. Again, a great offensive line can cure most of your problems. Passing and running the ball.

Packer fans are going to have to be patient, because we aren't going to get anywhere close to the promised land for a couple of years. The organization has to dig out of the deep hole TT and MM, including Murphy, put us into. We can only hope that Murphy finally realizes his mistakes and gets them corrected pronto. As we said, we would like him out of town, but right now that isn't going to happen, at least for a few years.

I just hope they can get things turned around while I'm still alive. I'm not getting any younger! Go Pack!

Gort's picture

Who is this " Chuck Murphy" guy?

Jonathan Spader's picture

Gort,

Chuck Norris and Mark Murphy's baby.

Skip greenBayless's picture

How much Murphy could Since 61' chuck if Since 61 would chuck could chuck Murphy.

LambeauPlain's picture

If the Packers want to get the most out of the players they have while Gute works to up grade the starting talent and build quality depth....hire Brian Flores as the new HC.

His constant objective is to make his players the very best they can be on the field...and off it. He holds players accountable after he puts them in the best position to succeed. He is very tough, but fair. And his players love him.

Unlike MM and Capers who insist players execute the system they want on the field, Flores and even Pettine install systems that maximize the strengths of guys they have available.

Let Gute build the team up with talented "football players". Let Flores get the most out of them on O, D, and STs...with coaches who know how to lead and teach.

Lphill's picture

I think the Pack needs to keep Breeland and Morrison who seemed to adjust well to the defense and play the run well, Lancaster is a Northwestern guy, hard nosed blue collar type definitely going to be a force in the middle , Clark, Daniels , Alexander , Josh Jones so I think there are some players on defense, lets see how the draft goes and free agency, add in a edge rusher and a safety , the defense is not that far off.

Qoojo's picture

I would say that the packers need starters that can stay on the field. The defense fielded in last game was almost preseason level out of necessity due to injuries. They also need a coach that can teach tackling.

splitpea1's picture

Here is an example of what the author is taking about: when you watch other teams in punt coverage, notice some of the diving acrobatic efforts some of these guys make to keep the ball out of the end zone and pin the offense inside the 5-yard line. How often do you see Packer players do this?

Also, I hope everyone saw how well some off these playoff team secondaries tackled--that's how you get off the field after third down. I sincerely hope the new coaching staff addresses this and gets it fixed once and for all. That's one of the first building blocks for establishing a respectable football team that can succeed in the playoffs.

cheesehead1's picture

Please hire a coach/assistants that hold “everyone” accountable and can teach proper tackling technique. Our overall tackling year after year is pathetic.

dobber's picture

Then we need to get Zook teaching kick/punt return technique: those blockers seemed to be tackling defenders all the time.

Mojo's picture

In addition to technique, I believe adding better athletes also contributes to better tackling.

If you can get to point A from point B quicker than most then you have a better chance of avoiding coming in as fast as you can and overrunning a play. It's harder for an opponent to put the moves on you if you're under control getting to him. Plus, it allows for getting into proper tackling technique to boot.

Better athletes have a better chance of being able to deploy better technique. Doesn't mean they always will, but the ability to do so is higher.

Holecrap's picture

Didn't really get your point. I say what the Packers lack are skill players on both sides the ball. Guys that have talent and use it.
Let me refer to a quote by Jimmy johnson, when asked about his great Miami teams and their quickness on defense "You cant coach speed".
He was smart enough to go out and recruit the speed players, with quickness, power and agility. Converted to one word skill.
If you dont have skilled players your not going far in this league.
The pack lack skill on defense and have very little on offense.

Packerpasty's picture

You hit the nail on the head...the team is full of JAGs and not many can see it...my two brothers think this team is just full of wonderful players just waiting for the next step up and pro bowl honors...not so...Clay "was" a true player, now he's beyond his best years, should be moved to the middle, Perry...haha...the next coach and Gutes has their work cut out for them....a great off season of F/As and a good draft is crucial...no more trading down to get a bunch of "bargains" please...

Jonathan Spader's picture

Alexander is a skilled player that we got while trading down pastry chef.

Gort's picture

Alexander had a pretty good rookie season. We've seen that before. Need him to get better next year. One, 2, or 3 skilled players can't cover up for the other 8, 9, or 10 that are not skilled. The premise of the article is that we need more. That is undisputed.

Hey, don't the chefs play on Saturday?
Sorry, but that always makes me snicker.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Alexander for me seems really different than Randall/Rollins. He has more than 1 or 2 years football experience. He plays with a fantastic swagger that makes him a lot of fun to watch. I don't need him to do better next year. This is a 5' 11" rookie that kept Julio Jones somewhat in check. I think Gute landed a blue chip player, time will tell.

alforno54's picture

Forget 40's , cone drills, and shuttles. Nothing slows down supposed prime athletes like getting hit. Get a bunch of mean SOBs' and turn them loose . Enough with pinups and model citizens....

cheesehead1's picture

We need to hit big with this draft and sign some really good free agents. IMO, Gutekunst drafted pretty well, but the FA signings left something to be desired. Lewis was hardly used (don’t know why) and Graham disappointed IMO. Graham was the same in Seattle, injured and dropped passes. He’s just not the same player anymore. Wilkerson unfortunately went to IR so maybe he will return for another go. One of the biggest disappointments so far IMO has been Kevin King drafted by TT. Time to work your butt off this offseason and STAY healthy. Win or lose Go Pack.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

the Bears posted a 12-4 record. the Bears weren't even considered to win the division was going to be the Vikings the Bears one the division the Bears lost against the previous Super Bowl champions of last year. the Bears lost by tip of the finger sorry but it seems like the Bears made All the Right Moves

Jonathan Spader's picture

What's funny is the Vikings replaced their kicker midseason for not cutting it. The Bears kicker is what cost them the post season. If the Bears made all the right moves they would have beaten the Eagles.

They made some great moves in drafting and Mack for 2018. We'll see how that works out for them in 2019.

Oppy's picture

...and 2020.
....and 2021.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

The FG was tipped by an Eagles player.

Oppy's picture

Ted Thompson era, scouts and draft "football players", Packers fans everywhere cry out for more athletes.

Gutekunst era begins, and the focus is clearly more on athletes. Before a full year has elasped, Packers fans crying out for more "Football players".

I love this stuff!

TheBigCheeze's picture

add Breeland to that list

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