Packers DO NOT DRAFT list from CheeseheadTV
CheeseheadTV writers tell you who the Packers should avoid in the 2023 NFL draft.
By JerseyAl
Here are some thoughts from our writers on players they wouldn't want to see the Packers draft. Later today, you'll get their Packers first-round pick predictions.
Jonathan Krim - Calijah Kancey. Pass rush and D-line depth are needs, and Kancey is a tantalizing prospect. His get-off burst inspires daydreams of an unstoppable pairing with Rashan Gary. His measurables in several categories will be alluring to Green Bay, from his overall RAS of 9.59 to his elite speed and agility grades. The man can get to the quarterback. But this is one of those cases where a couple of traits should be disqualifying. His weight, short stature and even shorter arms reduce Kancey to limited downs when he won’t have to worry about the run, because opposing teams will expose and exploit him. And haven’t the Packers had enough problems stopping the run? Kancey will come into play in the second round, and the Packers could be tempted with one of their two picks to take a flyer. Just say no.
Tony Wilson - Zay Flowers. I know many would be psyched about this pick, but I just don't trust smaller receivers at this point in the draft. And while GB typically avoids receivers of Flowers' stature, I doubt it's likely anyway. be tempted with one of their two picks to take a flyer. Just say no.
Mike Price - Brian Branch. Branch will probably be a good NFL player, but I'm sick of the Packers taking a defensive back in the first two rounds and playing him out of position. Branch was a slot defender only in college and is a meh athlete. The Packers need a safety, but I'd rather take one who fits in the 4th round than shoehorn in Branch in the first.
Maggie Loney - Drew Sanders. Honestly, sub in any inside linebacker in the first three rounds here and my answer is the same. The Packers went against their norm last season when they took an off-ball linebacker with the No. 22 overall pick. This is not a strong ILB class, and with what the Packers have already invested in De'Vondre Campbell and Quay Walker, adding another ILB to the defense with a top-100 pick would feel like GM malpractice.
Gil Martin - Peter Skoronski. I love the name and he is a legacy via his grandfather, but the lack of length and his short arms will limit him in the NFL and he may be better suited to guard than tackle.
Ken Lass - Brian Branch. He may be the top rated safety according to many draft lists, but I'm not sure he's even the best safety on his team. Jordan Battle is bigger and faster. Branch is more Ha Ha Clinton Dix, made to look better than he is because of an all star front seven in front of him at Alabama.
Bruce Irons - Zay Flowers. In a class where I don't love many players, I also don't hate many players. It's a pretty "meh" class all around. One guy that I like less than most is Zay Flowers. Yes, he's flashy and exciting and brings a big play element to any offense, but I don't like depending on a 5'9, 182 receiver to be a consistent contributor. In a weaker wide receiver class, I think he will be overdrafted.
Tim Backes - Will Levis. For me, USUALLY the only reason to not pick a player regardless of where they fall in the draft is due to some big off-field red flags, but this year is the year of J-Love. It would make sense for them to draft a quarterback SOMEWHERE in the draft as an insurance policy and as a player to develop alongside Love, but you don't want to pick a quarterback TOO high. So with that in mind, I'll say Will Levis. He's a very flawed (yet talented) prospect who would take a lot of development, but would also carry the "potential #1 pick" label that would simply be too distracting to have on the team behind Love, no matter where he ends up getting drafted .
Rex Sheild - Kayshon Boutte. While Boutte had an impressive freshman campaign, he seems to come with — what appears at this point to be — unnecessary baggage and injury concerns. Thus, he is not worth the risk and potential headache(s).
Mark Oldacres - Keion White. Nice player but I don’t get the 1st round hype. A 24-year-old project who’s a defensive line/EDGE tweener? White scares the hell out of me.
Wendell Ferreira - Bijan Robinson. After taking an off-ball linebacker in the first round last year, it's time for Brian Gutekunst to give more attention to positional value, especially at the start of a new era in Green Bay. Tight end and safety are needs and might not be great picks either, but taking a running back this early in the draft, and with Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon already on the roster, would be a highly questionable decision.
Joseph Randolph - Dalton Kincaid. He didn't test at the Combine nor at Utah's Pro Day...I wonder if his injury is more serious than we think. In 26 career games for Utah he's only had 60 or more receiving yards 8 times, and 2 of those games were against FCS Opponents.
Gunnar Davis - Deuce Vaughn. Likely a gadget player in the NFL, Deuce Vaughn doesn’t fit the mold of a typical skill position player that the Packers like. Although talented, I just can’t see the front office taking a 5’5” specialty player.
Jersey Al Bracco - Jalen Carter. This may be crazy because of the talent, but so many NFL scouts question his lack of motivation and poor work ethic, which were on full display at the combine and his Pro Day. There is decent bust potential here, so I'll let someone else take the risk.
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (192)
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 07:29 am
Cannot argue with the Listing. All of these guys should be Avoided "at all costs."
DoubleJ
April 27, 2023 at 07:50 am
I agree with that. I would also add JSN and Mayer to the avoid list.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 07:35 am
I just like that Gunnar started his morning off with the Deuce!!!
Bwahhhhhahahaha!
I am a child.
mnbadger
April 27, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Thank you for that GG, I too am a child. I had to put my coffee cup down out of fear that I'd spill it on my laptop!
But as I age, a deuce at anytime can be a good thing!
GPG!
GGG!
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 12:57 pm
Lol. It was low ha ha ha hanging fruit.
mn- that’s just too good.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 07:45 am
Joseph Randolph - "Dalton Kincaid. He didn't test at the Combine nor at Utah's Pro Day...I wonder if his injury is more serious than we think. In 26 career games for Utah he's only had 60 or more receiving yards 8 times, and 2 of those games were against FCS Opponents."
I find Joseph's comment about Kincaid to be interesting. Well, tonight we will likely find out about Dalton unless he drops into the top end of the 2nd round.
stockholder
April 27, 2023 at 07:52 am
I think the back problem, might be why.
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 07:57 am
Kraft. Get the wild man.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 08:27 am
I like Kraft a lot in the 3rd, particularly if the Packers choose not to draft a TE prior to the 3rd round focusing more on other positions.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 09:13 am
Tucker Kraft is the #18 player overall in Athlon’s Top 100 Players listing, just above Darnell Washington at #19.
Trust me, NFL teams and GMs align closer to Athlon & Ourlads than any other draft pub, consistently, for decades.
Why? They’ve built those strong relationships with NFL Scouts, GMs and HCs spanning more than 40 years.
15 Mayer
18 Kraft
19 Washington
23 Musgrave
42 Kincaid
That’s it. No other TE made Athlon’s Top 100.
*Published prior to the Combine.
That’s how good these players are at TE.
Hearing “No TEs R1,” has some credence in years prior, but this is not your average TE class.
Damn! 3 - LEGIT - Top 20 players in this TE class.
JerseyAl
April 27, 2023 at 09:40 am
"Trust me, NFL teams and GMs align closer to Athlon & Ourlads than any other draft pub, consistently, for decades."
This is very true and why I don't use internet-comprised "consensus" draft boards. Way too many people get included that are not "connected" to what the teams/scouts really think.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 10:47 am
Same here, Al. The DIC is awash with floating Top 300 boards and simulators like a smoky bar and a dozen pull slots.
No thanks. All of it fake.
I’ll take my time tested sources any day.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 12:58 pm
But there’s no “right” source. If there was this would be dull. Athlon is no better than the average GM, which isn’t very, historically.
The difference is that they are both are putting their mouth behind their own work and paid sources, not merely agglomerating. That’s a good incentive to be through, not merely popular.
It is often said that a wrong decision taken at the right time is better than a right decision taken at the wrong time. But then again, whether a decision proves right often depends on what you do after you make it.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 04:08 pm
Last year we drafted:
7 of Ourlad’s Top 100 Players in Devonte Wyatt, Kingsley Enagbare, Christian Watson, Quay Walker, Zach Tom, Sean Rhyan, Romeo Doubs
We landed 5 of Athlon’s Top 100 players in Sean Rhyan, Devonte Wyatt, Kingsley Enagbare, Quay Walker, Rashaad Walker.
We landed 4 of PFF’s Top 100 players in Wyatt, Tom, Watson and Enagebare.
It’s a good illustration.
Of course there’s no right source. It’s a guessing game even to the Scouts & GMs. That’s how difficult this is … FOR THEY THEMSELVES, with millions of $$$, time, and resources spent to get picks right.
I find it fascinating and always have. Like hitting a slider.
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 10:28 am
The Pack had quite a few scouts at this Pro Day.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 10:50 am
GOOD! Thanks, jannes! I didn’t know that. Great to hear.
I’m all-in on Kraft, Washington & Kincaid.
We need 2TEs. Just so happens this year is prime for us.
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 10:26 am
Mid -second rd.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 10:53 am
If we’re lucky. Can’t see Kraft slipping to R3.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 11:00 am
Probably not at the Packers pick in round 3, but I could see him slipping into the top of round 3. I like him a lot because he has a lot of Mayer in him (more than any other TE I believe) both receiving and in-line, but I see him aligning more with the Packers 3rd round value/selection than their #2's. Round 2 for me is getting two of the following: a quality Edge player, then either a DL like Mazi, or possibly one of Washington, or Luke Musgrave.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 11:22 am
DIC and I disagree mightily. No way Washington slips past 25, much less into R2. No way. Same with Mayer. I agree with Al that Mayer has the best résumé worthy of the 13 at TE. A little rich for my tastes, but, he has the resume.
Production is important.
Mayer as an all around in-line, Washington as a blocker with some spectacular receiving tape, and Kincaid with the receiving resume.
mnbadger
April 27, 2023 at 12:26 pm
I want Washington, somewhere, somehow. 13 might be rich.
Great blocker with limited opportunities as a receiver in college, but when called upon, some spectacular tape.
If in GB, both will be called upon and he has the frame to play a lot of snaps.
GPG!
GGG!
DoubleJ
April 27, 2023 at 12:27 pm
Bob McGinn doesn't do a rank in overall terms, like Mayer is 16, but does have a top 100 and ranks them in their position. Since he started doing this is 2009, he has averaged 86 correct players in the top 100 picks. Here is his TE rankings:
Tight ends (9): Michael Mayer, Notre Dame; Dalton Kincaid, Utah; Luke Musgrave, Oregon State; Sam LaPorta, Iowa; Darnell Washington, Georgia; Luke Schoonmaker, Michigan; Tucker Kraft, South Dakota State; Josh Whyle, Cincinnati; Brenton Strange, Penn State.
I personally am not a fan of Mayer. Musgrave is an interesting player who could be there at 42. Washington I think everyone would like him. I do think it is interesting that McGinn has LaPorta ranked over Washington.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 01:03 pm
DoubleJ, Bob McGinn owes me money. No shit.
Funny, I’ve got a dear friend & former Packers beat reporter who sat right next to McGinn at the Journal Sentinel.
As a matter of fact, I’m going to call him rn.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:23 pm
My only interaction with Bob was very positive and professional. I like the guy!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:21 pm
There are a few players like Washington, Kincaid, Mayer, & Musgrave, hell even Tucker who just might shock the hell out of me with where they finally end up being drafted. I have said previously I can see most of these guys drafted anywhere from #15 to #45, which is a pretty big range. Thankfully there are a number of them including LaPorta!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 08:25 am
I believe Joseph's analysis and the CCTV Draft Report was compiled prior to Dalton Kincaid's pre-draft visit with the Green Bay Packers at which time he would have undergone a medical physical.
Here is an interesting stat:
Had 16 receptions on 16 targets for a career-high 234 yards and a touchdown against USC with the 16 catches being the most by a player in the FBS and his 234 yards ranking as the most by an FBS tight end. His 16 catches tied for second all-time at Utah with his 234 also ranking second in program history.
KINCAID QUICK HITS
55 career games played in Division I football (24 at San Diego) with 24 starts.
Active career leader among tight ends in the FBS with 2,484 receiving yards and 35 receiving touchdowns.
His 16 receiving touchdowns at Utah ties for 10th all-time.
2022 John Mackey Award Semifinalist.
2022 PFF (2nd Team), Bleacher Report (1st Team), AP (3rd Team) All-America.
2022 Midseason All-American (AP, CFN, PFF).
All-Pac-12 first team in 2022, honorable mention in 2021.
2022: Played in 12 games with nine starts, leading the team in receptions (70), receiving yards (890) and receiving touchdowns (8).
Pac-12 All-Conference first-team.
PFF, Bleacher Report and AP All-America.
Led all FBS tight ends in receiving yards (890) and receiving yards per game (77.3).
His eight receiving scores ranked second among FBS tight ends.
Earned Pac-12 Offensive Player of the Week, Rose Bowl Pac-12 Player of the Week and Reese’s Senior Bowl Offensive Player of the Week for his performance against USC.
Had 16 receptions on 16 targets for a career-high 234 yards and a touchdown against USC with the 16 catches being the most by a player in the FBS and his 234 yards ranking as the most by an FBS tight end.
His 16 catches tied for second all-time at Utah with his 234 also ranking second in program history.
Recorded seven catches for 107 yards and two touchdowns against Southern Utah, catching a season-long 37-yarder in the game.
Had five catches for 102 yards and a touchdown at Colorado, averaging 20.4 yards per reception.
Also had 11 catches for 99 yards at Oregon.
Scored two touchdowns with four catches and 66 yards at Arizona State.
Grabbed four receptions for 40 yards in Utah’s Pac-12 Championship win over USC.
Had a touchdown and three catches for 17 yards against Oregon State.
2021: Saw action in all 14 games with 13 starts, recording 36 receptions for 510 yards (14.2 ypc) and eight touchdowns.
Earned Pac-12 All-Conference honorable mention.
His 14.2 yards per reception ranked third among tight ends in the Pac-12.
His eight receiving touchdowns ranked third in the Pac-12 (first among TEs), and fifth among tight ends in the FBS.
Scored a touchdown in the final three games of the season (Colorado, vs. Oregon, vs. Ohio State).
Four receptions for a season-high 75 yards against Weber State, scoring two touchdowns (17 yds, 11 yds).
Recorded four receptions for 61 yards and a touchdown against Oregon in the Pac-12 Championship game.
Two catches for 55 yards and a 28-yard touchdown reception against Colorado.
Two receptions for 55 yards against Oregon State including a season long 43-yard catch.
Three receptions for 45 yards and a touchdown against Ohio State in the Rose Bowl.
Three catches for 40 yards and a touchdown at USC.
Recorded three catches for 33 yards and a touchdown at Arizona.
Three receptions for 25 yards and a four-yard touchdown catch against UCLA.
Had one rush for four yards against Washington State.
2020: Played in all five games, starting against Washington.
One catch for 14 yards against No. 20 USC.
Prior to Utah: Played for the University of San Diego from 2018-19.
AP and Hero Sports All-American in 2019.
All-conference second-team honors as a sophomore.
44 receptions for 835 yards and eight touchdowns in 2019.
Led all FCS tight ends in yards per catch in 2019 (18.98), ranking second among FCS tight ends in receiving yards (835) and receiving yards per game (69.6).
Season-high 152 receiving yards on six catches with one TD at Cal Poly in 2019.
374 receiving yards on 24 receptions with 11 touchdowns his freshman year.
Averaged 15.6 yards per catch in 2018 and 31.2 receiving yards per game.
High School: Played just one year of high school football at Faith Lutheran HS in Las Vegas.
Earned all-state and all-conference.
Also played basketball.
Personal: Son of Vicki and Clark Kincaid … has two siblings.
JerseyAl
April 27, 2023 at 08:29 am
where is this info from?
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 08:36 am
University of Utah website:
https://utahutes.com/sports/football/roster/dalton--kincaid/13199
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 08:37 am
Vicky Kincaid. ;)
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 08:43 am
No, it is spelled 'Vicki'
:)
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 09:41 am
She's trying to go incognito...
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 09:36 am
I too found the comment on Kincaid rather odd. I don’t think his production has ever been open to question. I do think it’s important to point out that the resemblance to a TE, even a move one, is nominal. He was a slot WR. There is an element of risk in that transferring to much better competition, but his production is real. If we pick him, we get a better athlete than Lazard who may become as good a blocking WR, we don’t get a TE though.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 09:56 am
I am in complete agreement CW! I have been saying for sometime now that I see Kincaid being that big/power Slot WR who will occasionally play TE. Combine Kincaid with one of the top 3 or 4 TE's such as Mayer, Washington, Tucker, LaPorta and have them on the field with KIncaid at the same time & our whole offense has changed & now Jordan Love has a very dangerous offense at his disposal. I usually always draft Kincaid with one of these other TE's in my mock drafts.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 10:01 am
Will add I believe the persistent problem many have with Kincaid is they read he is a TE, so automatically assume he is a TE. Subsequently, they do not rate him high because of his blocking. The same goes for Luke Musgrave. These guys are essentially big/power Slot WR's who are big/tall & fast who can box out & over power smaller defenders. Better versions of Lazard. I also have to believe Musgrave is being given a lot of consideration as well and why not at 6'6" who can run approximately a 4.5 in the 40 - yard.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 10:26 am
Musgrave is very similar, but with more health questions over a longer period. I count neither as a TE.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 10:36 am
Agree, and should the Packers fail to draft Kincaid I always see Musgrave as an alternative Plan B. Going to be interesting for sure to see where Gutey goes with WR's & TE's this weekend.
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 10:31 am
Basically ran a Dbl slot TE sets in an Air Raid offense with Kuithe.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 10:25 am
Dude! I almost blew by this thinking it was somebody else!!!
If the Packers take both Washington & Kincaid, both Athlon Top 50 players, the rest of the NFL can look the fuck out.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 10:43 am
LOL!
This is what I have been envisioning for a long time now (two+ months) with the direction Gutey & LF might go in the draft now that Tonyan, Big Dog, and Lazard are all gone. Go the rather unconventional route with a big/power slot WR with speed over the traditional Wesley Welker type slot. One who can use size & overwhelm defenders to block out using their bodies. Now add that TE in conjunction such as Mayer, Washington, or Tucker who are effective receiving TE's, but who can also 'knock the snot out of you' as a blocker. Man....this kind of stuff cannot get any better, and frankly it gets me all amped up just thinking about it!
People talk about the need for WR separation quickly with blitz pressure on Jordan Love. Well, if you are 6'4" and/or 6'6" and in that 240 to 255 lbs like Kincaid & Musgrave running in that 4.5 range how many steps do you have to take with, or without separation before you turn around and block out a 5'10" or 5'11" defensive back who weighs 190 lbs and make that simple high point pass & catch? LOL! Anyone ever play basketball against a big boy down low in the blocks and the guard keeps throwing the ball to him when you are behind trying to keep him from the hoop? You gamble and try intercepting and these guys running in the 4.5 range are high-tailing it down the field. They are not going to be lumbering but hauling ass down the field!
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 11:00 am
No, but I did play TE. I like it.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 11:06 am
Unless you have defensive help there usually is absolutely zero way to stop a big guy like this from making these catches...if he has good hands. I know Dalton played basketball and was good at it before switching to football his Senior year in H.S. He can run but trust me they teach you as a basketball player starting in grade 3 the fundamentals of blocking out. I know having played & having coached 20-seasons. I love these big athletic basketball players who have converted to TE's & receivers, as they have been revolutionizing the game of football. Big - tall & athletic!
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 01:04 pm
Washington was a basketball player too.
mnbadger
April 27, 2023 at 12:29 pm
Thanks for including the HS stats.
GPG!
GGG!
HarryHodag
April 27, 2023 at 07:48 am
Odd,, but the professionals whose income is dependent on accurate assessments, think Branch is a good safety. Sports writers, who don't play the game, think he's not good.
I think I know which group to trust.
---
Mike Price - Brian Branch. Branch will probably be a good NFL player, but I'm sick of the Packers taking a defensive back in the first two rounds and playing him out of position. Branch was a slot defender only in college and is a meh athlete. The Packers need a safety, but I'd rather take one who fits in the 4th round than shoehorn in Branch in the first.
---
So in a position with a bunch of 'whozits' playing now you would prefer a lesser safety to defend against Justin Jefferson et.al.?
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 09:52 am
Most have changed after his combine and pro day. He was thought the most versatile of a poor class, though he played mostly in the box, where his long speed was secondary to agility. That’s where he was known to excel. The revelation of his athletic limitations has called his versatility into question. Must now see him a nickel S.
That fits some defenses and teams. It probably does not fit ours. Most have adjusted their evaluation to a late first early second as a result. He’s good against the run and he tackles well, he may be a good NFL player from the outset, but he’s a read and react guy (he plays best off the man) who lacks long speed, limiting his role or upside. To me that’s not a first round prospect, particularly in our D.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 12:31 pm
Truth. His read & react instincts, coupled with his tackling ability do make him special, but that lack of speed is a very big ding. Up here, in today’s NFL.
Few can overcome that, yet, some do.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:39 pm
Seems like I recall some guy named Jackson who has been long gone & drafted in round 2 just four years ago along with Jaire. Had incredible instincts leading the nation in interceptions the year before but who lacked NFL foot speed.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 03:42 pm
While the too slow Ted Thompson pick, Micah Hyde, remains in this league. Taken same year as Bak. 2013.
stockholder
April 27, 2023 at 07:50 am
Somebody Tell Wendell Ferreira-- it's BPA @13.
The way Jones gets banged up.
And the fact; Dillion hasn't shown he's a threat.
Taking a franchise, generational talent in Robinson;
Is a No brainer.
Competition makes everyone better.
AS so many pointed out with Love.
T7Steve
April 27, 2023 at 08:13 am
Dillion will show his stuff this season.
A competent line right from the start.
A QB who embraces the run game from under center.
A team that won't treat the first game of the season as the 4th preseason game.
A team working with a lead trying to maintain possession of the ball and keep the D fresh.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 10:42 am
EXACTLY, Steve! Pound the ROCK!!!
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 10:50 am
And not from the Shotgun
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 11:30 am
Whoosh. Glad that’s over.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 01:06 pm
I hope. That’s one thing we don’t know. How much of our offense really was Rodgers’ imposed? I am really hoping a lot of it, but I’m looking forward to finding out either way.
T7Steve
April 27, 2023 at 01:11 pm
Rodgers, or his thumb, and/or ribs. Either way, I feel that's on the coach who stuck with it/him.
We're opening up a whole new offense now. No excuses.
GIT ER DONE!
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 01:15 pm
We know that against the Eagles, the offense moved better without Rodgers on the field.
T7Steve
April 27, 2023 at 02:01 pm
Don't you think a two-game swing (at least) for injury last season?
Another two games (at least) getting their head out of their A... about the offensive line?
Play the first game like it isn't a warmup and we'd have won the division.
T7Steve
April 27, 2023 at 02:20 pm
I think it was a bad year for Rodgers at QB. Poor guy.
I'm trying to think of a game we won last season, just because of him, and I'm having trouble thinking of one. Used to be able to count on at least five wins just because of him or his fantastic play alone.
There was one last season that he had a touchdown drive when we got the ball back with like thirty seconds left in the first half. Can't remember which one.
Used to be too many of those types of highlights to count.
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 04:25 pm
The "top five" defense was supposed to carry the team, like Denver's did for Manning.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 06:31 pm
"" Used to be able to count on at least five wins just because of him or his fantastic play alone.""""
Steve, I love you man but I have to laugh at the irony. For years, people insisted that Favre was worth 5 games alone. Then we finished 4-12., meaning that without Favre we'd have been -1 and 16.
An average team, with an average coach, and an average QB, with an average amount of luck, is going to go 8-9 or 9-8. Whatever you do beyond that, you can give that credit to the QB if you don't want to give any to the other people.
xxxxxxxxx
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 05:04 pm
Love ran a shotgun offense for Yost. He was 8 sets out of 9 in the hurry-up vs the Eagles out of the shotgun. It fits his strengths. The play action running game will complement his game, too. If they want to keep Dillon they should get a FB to run I-formation. This offense should be Multiple and incorporate the full complement of TE sets to stress the Edge guys and safeties. A.Jones is not a bell cow you want to beat up and be in tatters when the Games matter in Nov-December. This is a reload, not a rebuild. Love will do his thing. Same agent as Rodgers, Same tutor.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 08:30 am
I would absolutely have no problem at all with Bijan at #13, but hopefully MLF can be creative and utilize him all year vs sitting behind Jones on the bench. He is a running & receiving back, so pass him the ball with one or two players to beat. With 104 missed tackles last year setting the NCAA record for missed tackles....get him the ball!
LambeauPlain
April 27, 2023 at 09:45 am
He's played a fair number of snaps from the slot. And on wheel routes...get him the ball and let him work.
I don't know if he drops to #13, but he does...great! Draft him or trade down for someone who covets his tremendous skillset...Dallas comes to mind. #26, #58, and #90 will do just fine, Mike and Jerry!
And that skillset is sublime for MLF's Illusion of Complex Offense.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 11:17 am
I agree, LP!
This draft can go so many different ways.
I can see the Packers talent loading both sides of the ball in this 2023 draft with that boatload of picks I’ve been dreaming about.
Convinced we take 15, 43 and 116 + from Jets for OL players AR can trust, who know the system. I foresee all of Bakhtiari, Runyan, Myers, Hanson & Newman trade to them tonight and tomorrow.
Gutekunst will have a ton of picks, especially if he moves down from 13. Hell, he’ll still have a ton of picks even in a trade up to #3 overall to take EDGE Will Anderson, the best overall player in this draft.
Matt
April 27, 2023 at 01:04 pm
I don't think he trusts Newman.
SicSemperTyrannis
April 27, 2023 at 09:54 am
I'm thinking either TE or RB fits with our offensive scheme better than more WRs. I don't know that that means we need to spend #13 on either, but the top 3 TEs seem to be a lot better than ... most. And we have the luxury of not needing a TE to be a star this year, if they have a great ceiling.
Of course the argument that the best RB would contribute this year is a plus. Which will gain more YAC on receptions +/- 3 yards of the line of scrimmage? Realistically, this is where JL10 will be throwing, more than 20-40 yards down field.
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 08:39 am
If the plan is--and has been--Bijan at 13/15, they never re-up Jones and push his hit out this far. You draft a guy like that, you'd better be prepared to ride him hard out of the gate. I don't think he's on their radar.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 09:45 am
I agree, you draft Bijan you had better 'be prepared to ride him hard out of the gate!'
I too would be surprised he is on their radar. The only thing that might be in Bijan's favor regarding being drafted by the GBP's is that AR was just traded and the team is in need of offensive playmakers with the team in a rebuild. There is a little chaos taking place with new philosophies/schemes and MLF needs this offense to be explosive with some firepower. There might not be another player who has the ability to inject instantaneous firepower more than say Bijan Robinson within MLF's illusion of complexity offense? Bijan would have to be right there with Kincaid, JSN, Johnston, and Addison if utilized properly & hard.
Most think about Robinson with a 1st round pick is the way to go, but what about a slightly smaller & much faster RB, Jahmyr Gibbs with more receiving yards in round 2? Gibbs based on size (5'9" and 200 lbs) & speed (4.36) doesn't have the moves & ability to cut like Bijan but would be an excellent Slot WR who carries the ball as a RB 10-12 times a game. However, we already have Bo Melton who could play the slot seemingly eliminating the need for Bijan & Gibbs. I'd say Melton is truly an unknown asset. It is going to be very interesting to try seeing what we have with Toure & Melton. Surprised neither were invited to Jordan Love's off-season workout.
How do Gibbs & Bo Melton compare? Melton is 5'11: and 189 lbs, or 11 lbs lighter, but slightly faster than Gibbs at 4.34.
LambeauPlain
April 27, 2023 at 09:54 am
Conversely, drafting Robinson, would cost the Packers far less than re-signing Quadzilla to a new deal.
And you would have Bijan for the next 5 years, potentially as a long term strategic selection at a position that is valued higher in MLF's O than other teams.
I don't think he will be at #13...if he is, he could attract one dandy of a trade down deal. But if the Packers draft him, I would be excited at the possibilities in MLFs IOC offense.
Sit back and enjoy the draft, Dobber. I will...my Twin Grandchildren, boy and girl were born today!
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 10:05 am
"Sit back and enjoy the draft, Dobber. I will...my Twin Grandchildren, boy and girl were born today!"
Congratulations, LP! I hope all are doing well and that you enjoy the ride!
As for the draft? It's all entertainment and outside our control. Enjoy it for what it is!
LambeauPlain
April 27, 2023 at 11:22 am
Thank you...all 4 including new Dad (son in law) are all doing great! Today, the draft is all gravy for me.
JerseyAl
April 27, 2023 at 10:22 am
Congrats! I'm up to four with #5 on the way in September.
LambeauPlain
April 27, 2023 at 11:23 am
Wonderful Blessings. I have just totaled four as of 7 AM! Congratulations on #5, Al!
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 01:01 pm
Is this catching?
Congratulations to all.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 11:34 am
Wooooooooah! Congratulations, Grandpa!!! Happy days!
BirdDogUni
April 27, 2023 at 11:45 am
CONGRATULATIONS!!! (More Packers Fans!) ; )
No matter what the Packers do tonight, it was a WIN for you today!
Enjoy!
Go LP GO!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 03:11 pm
Congrats Lambeau!
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 11:05 am
Not disagreeing with you on Bijan, but, Wendell wrote a smoke show of a piece on positional value. Might want to read it if you haven’t already, sh.
It’s where this league is trending.
LambeauPlain
April 27, 2023 at 11:27 am
I read Wendell's piece. Very educational. Caveat is some teams assign more value of certain positions depending on Offense/Defense tendencies and plays emphasized.
MLF seems to value RBs more given his IOC Offense in my opinion. And this year the RBs may be getting the ball more than WRs, TEs...considering total runs and receptions.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 01:30 pm
Jones caught more deceptions than anyone other than Lazard last year. Those two did play more games, admittedly. He’s going to be up there this year, which is one reason why we paid him and why Bijan won’t be if we pick him.
Untylu1968
April 27, 2023 at 11:13 am
Obviously, Robinson isn't a "need", but damn, I couldn't imagine any other prospect that I'd be more fired up about, to have as a Packer!
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 06:33 pm
I like Robinson because next year either Jones or Dillon or both could be gone, but in the long run, I think it's better to avoid skill position guys in the first round.
4thand10
April 27, 2023 at 12:47 pm
Dillon commands stacked boxes. Must not be a threat? It takes 2-3 to bring him down in open field But he’s not a threat? Com’on man.
croatpackfan
April 27, 2023 at 07:56 am
I mostly agree with the list.
I would add JSN, because he is so advertised as the best prospect after QBs, that it looks me as his agent had paid to bunch of "draftniks" to push him as high as they can.
And one objection. I noticed that on 2 players you would avoid, was one of important objections - short arms. Hmm. Packers would be without the best LT in the NFL if they avoid to draft him because he had short arms...
Dorny
April 27, 2023 at 08:10 am
Except, they took him in the 4th round. Wasting a first with questionmarks/questionable traits, goes against solid draft logic.
JerseyAl
April 27, 2023 at 08:31 am
croat, DBak measured w. 34" arms, which are not considered "short." But I do agree the short arms thing isn't always as important as it's made out to be.
croatpackfan
April 27, 2023 at 10:03 am
Al, we have this discussion year or 2 ago. I agree with you. I remember that people were bringing this "issue" when they were talking about rookie who suddenly had to play in place of Bulaga.
I pointed that just because that shows how some measures or physical traits can blur capabilities of some draft value of any player. Contrary to that I agree that some physical traits for some positions can have huge influence in their capabilities to play at top level. For example. QBs with very small hands would have problem with football. Small hands might be problem for WR or RB positions. Firm hips is strong no-no for DBs and so on. But some undermeasurements player can overcome with adequate technics or strenght.
I'm not advocating for any player here. Just wanted to point out that player assesment should not be based on their physical traits. Lack of "ideal" traits on the other hand might be the cause for their bad playing and that not good traits sometimes can not be overcome.
So, yes, I would definitely listen your opinion on OL players, because you show us that you have "good eye" when we come to OLiners, despite you can missjudged player from time to time. Nobody is perfect! Admitting mistake and learning from it gives people possibility to improve themselves, and is one characteristic I deeply appreciate.
Thank you for your reply!
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 10:19 am
Short arms is a thing for the classic big beast tackles archetype. If you can’t move, don’t have fast feet, big wingspan matters. If,, on the other hand, you are fleet of foot and mobile and can use positioning as a result, it matters much less, especially when combined with plus technique.
Darnell Wright is a slower footed prospect with 33 3/4 arms. Skoronski’s at 32 1/4 are particularly short. Zack Tom’s are 33 1/4 and Bakh’s 34. In contrast, Paris Johnson has 36 1/8 arms.
34 is classically the low end preferred. Both Tom and Bakh are far more mobile than both Wright and Skoronski. Nijman has 34 inch arms, Walker 33 5/8, Caleb Jones 36. Tenuata has the shortest at 32 7/8, but he was a SFA and still nearly 3/4 of an inch longer than Skoronski’s.
I can’t see them going shorter than 33 1/4 (Tom) for a high prospect who isn’t incredibly fast on his feet. Certainly not in round one. Probably not before day 3, unless the plan would be to take the player for inside, and that’s not likely a day one pick either.
PeteK
April 27, 2023 at 07:58 am
I still like the Deuce in late rounds, does it all with toughness. A Sproles type of gadget player could be a spark in this offense at the slot. Or Derious Davis is another player I would draft in the 7th.
Untylu1968
April 27, 2023 at 08:17 am
Can we list, say, three players that we reasonably could draft at 13, that wouldn't cause an explosion of thy head?
1 Nolan Smith
2 Christian Gonzalez
3 Paris Johnson
I realize none may make it to 13, but I'd happily take one of these guys!
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 08:32 am
I don't know what to make of Nolan Smith at this point. He doesn't feel like someone Barry would know what to do with. I would be very happy with Gonzalez or Johnson at 13. Speculation is that Johnson will be off the board in the top 10, though. I would avoid G or RT only guys this high (so I agree on saying no to Skoronski and Darnell Wright). That leaves Broderick Jones as the top OL candidate left at that point. He'd be a really solid pick at 13. There are plenty out there who are saying that the OT crop is weak and none of these guys are first rounders. I disagree on the top of the class: Johnson and Jones are plenty good. But yeah, there's not a lot of exciting depth behind them.
Really concerned that JSN will be the pick at 13 if he's still on the board--or worse, the Packers will deal capital to move up to get him. There's been a bucket of speculation there recently and it feels like there's some substance to it. I hope it's not the case.
Untylu1968
April 27, 2023 at 08:57 am
I just don't see too many sexy prospects to get overly excited about at 13. Maybe beer beer will help as the pick grows nearer?
RCPackerFan
April 27, 2023 at 09:31 am
You don't like JSN at 13 Dobber?
I would be happy with Smith. His ability outside would add something different to the current group we have at OLB. I think they will figure out the best ways to use him. Either way you have to add the most talented players to the roster and Smith is definitely talented.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 10:47 am
Smith is an ILB playing OLB. That’s a limited role at best in our scheme. I really like him as a player in isolation, but reality has set in and we’d use him only on obvious passing downs I suspect. The old Fackrell role of cover backer/speed rusher. I don’t see us picking him.
JSN might be my nightmare pick. A slower hope-to-be-Adams, close to 20 pounds lighter and needing to add mass. Even if he can be as elusive and have the anticipation Adams had, the difference long speed could turn him in to a possession guy at best. He was out last year, his one break our season came with him as the third receiver and resultant coverages too. He made his name with plays were he had free releases. The injuries last season may be a factor but I’m discounting them for lack of knowledge.
A slower, smaller, Adams is not guaranteed to be a success. I think JSN could be a good slot, but not a great one, more a sure handed possession type. I actually think Johnston could prove a better slot option with his huge catch radius, physicality and contested catching prowess. I’d take him before JSN or any other WR (other than Kincaid), but nowhere near 13.
jannesbjornson
April 27, 2023 at 10:40 am
The only big body they should consider is Broderick Jones if he falls. Most likely he and Johnson are off the board. RTs in rd two-three.
4thand10
April 27, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Doesn’t mean much, but I think Nolan is undersized and will get washed by OLs and TEs in todays game. He is on my no-list in the first.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 01:52 pm
I can’t get excited about him in GB. This is a big man’s game.
No.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 27, 2023 at 05:55 pm
Apparently not.
Pass on Nolan Smith until day 3.
PatrickGB
April 27, 2023 at 08:18 am
Of course many know my opinion. NO TE in the first round! However, I wonder how the above list changes if GB were to trade down? I suspect that some of the players listed above might look pretty good if they were available and taken later.
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 08:36 am
I think they can wait and find athletic pass-catchers who fill the Tonyan role well into the draft. Maybe a guy like Kincaid plays more early than most, but this isn't a pick to win a SB in 2023...this is balancing out draft capital to open windows in 25 (maybe 24 if Love balls out) and beyond. There's a small number of jumbo WR (like Elijah Higgins) who could easily fill that Tonyan/Lazard role who should be available later...and they're going to have better-developed route trees than most of the speculative athleltic TEs.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 11:25 am
Elijah certainly has the size!
BirdDogUni
April 27, 2023 at 12:01 pm
Bryce Ford-Wheaton can easily fill the Lazard role. Just as big but faster. Could take tops off the defense and fill MVS/Lazard roles both. If they double Watson, Bryce would be singled up, as would Doubs. If Darnell Washington was also on the field, Idk how they could not have an open pass catcher, even if it's Aaron Jones on a wheel route out of the backfield.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:02 pm
I love all the free flowing creative thoughts from everyone today!
Ahhh BirdDog.....you always have creativity! :)
SicSemperTyrannis
April 27, 2023 at 10:03 am
TE fits our offensive scheme better than WR. The top 3 (or so) TEs look a lot better than most, even if they take time to develop and aren't a star as a rookie. Why not get the best TE possible?
MooPack
April 27, 2023 at 08:28 am
Most of these guys have character flaws, physical limitations, or injury flags. Bijan Robinson is none of those. Simply a lower value position in the first. Not a need, but I wouldn’t put him on a no draft list as one to avoid.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 08:33 am
Moo,
Lower positional value....if you restrict him uncreatively as simply a RB yes, however expanding his role as a Slot WR/RB in 2023 and his positional value increases significantly don't you think? Then think about possibly using him as a punt returner as well.....and now where is his value?
MooPack
April 27, 2023 at 08:44 am
I agree Knock. I’d take him before JSN or Kincaid. His receiving skills are on par or better than some receivers. I think you could roll him out to the slot or even wide and do better than many.
BirdDogUni
April 27, 2023 at 12:55 pm
I'm sitting here and I remember being overseas in '89. I was playing ball for the RAF Lakenheath Eagles. So excited about the upcoming draft.
#1 Overall - Troy Aikman FHOFer
#2 Overall - Packers Bust of the Century -
#3 Overall - Barry Sanders FHOFer
#4 Overall - Derrick Thomas FHOFer
#5 Overall - Deion Sanders FHOFer
Of course, the Packers drafted Tony Mandarich - the Bust at #2 Overall - so let's not go down that road again.
No to JSN or Kincaid or Mayer.
bigstickpattyb89
April 27, 2023 at 08:39 am
I agree completely! I know RBs have a short lived career in the NFL, but he is about as close to a "sure thing" as I feel like you can get in this draft. Would make Jones expendable and potentially set up the ability to trade him? I don't like drafting a RB at 13, but I wouldn't hate Robinson either....
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:03 pm
Moo,
"Most of these guys have character flaws, physical limitations, or injury flags."
Not speaking for myself of course, but I believe most everyone here posting at CCTV from what I can tell does as well! :)
Thegreatreynoldo
April 27, 2023 at 06:13 pm
No, no, no. I am pretty sure that you have character flaws, physical limitations and injury flags, Knock! 😂
beerandbrats
April 27, 2023 at 08:33 am
Don't take anyone at 13! Trade down in the first to pick up another much needed second round pick. A late first round pick and three seconds provides the best chance to find starters!
SicSemperTyrannis
April 27, 2023 at 10:04 am
While I like the idea, did Gutey trade up to trade down?
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 10:49 am
This was my original thought, but then I also considered that #13 is obviously better trade bait than #15 for teams that are watching a prized prospect drop. So if Gute is considering a trade down, then getting that #13 from the Jets just improved his (don't hate me) leverage!
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 10:47 am
Love the seahawks as trade partner potential. They have a lot of picks... 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 2 fifths. Would love to see them trade us #20 and #52 for #13.
RCPackerFan
April 27, 2023 at 08:35 am
Definitely an asterisk needs to be added saying don't draft these guys in the first round. After that then maybe. But some of these guys I would be ok with taking in the first round especially if we traded down.
I was watching some high light films of WR's yesterday. Zay Flowers was one of the most explosive WR's I watched. He is small, and I get why we wouldn't want to take him that early for that reason. But if GB were to trade down to say in the 20's. I wouldn't have a problem with them drafting him. Adding a playmaker is very important. I would love to see more speed added to the offense. We saw what a difference Watson made. Adding another guy with a lot of speed and separation ability would make the offense take a step.
A few other players after round 1 I would consider. Boutte, White, Vaughn. All would be fine later in the draft.
Another player on the list is Bijan Robinson. If he is the best player on the board, they have no legit trade down options, I would consider him. Either or both Jones and Dillon could be gone next year. The way they use the RB's they could easily play all 3. One of the best ways to help a QB is using the RB's. We can still get a TE and WR later in the draft. But the first pick, you have to go with who you think is the best player. If they feel he is the best player and can be the most impactful player, the should go with him.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 08:35 am
In past years, Rashan Gary and Jordan Love made this list.
I would agree with PatrickGB above and say "no TE in the first round"
JerseyAl
April 27, 2023 at 08:47 am
very true!
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 08:51 am
Have a likey for the first part.
This isn’t just any TE class though. It’s the best in years, and a TE in the 20 range shouldn’t be argued, likely the best in a great class at a great position of need.
SicSemperTyrannis
April 27, 2023 at 10:08 am
I'm thinking TE fits our offensive scheme better than WR. The top 3 or so TEs are a lot better than most. Why not get the best TE possible? Even if it takes past his rookie year to develop, that's fine right now.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 11:05 am
Kincaid is a WR, possibly the best slot in the draft. Washington is a freak who could (athletically) have all world potential but, even without that is still perhaps the best blocking TE to come out in years. Meyer is the most rounded TE I’ve seen in a long time. That’s not a normal class at all.
Obviously that’s a positive take on all three, but it’s one many eould agree with with respect to each one if not all. Personally, I’m not high on Meyer, but that doesn’t change the fact that this is a stand out year for first round players labelled as TEs.
Rules of thumb are great, but they can also be blinding outside of the norm. I think this draft is that for TEs. Personally, I’d take potentially 3 before any notional WR, certainly 2. That’s certainly not normal, even if you disagree, that it’s open to rational debate and is being quite widely, illustrates the unusual nature of this draft.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 11:45 am
Then let me ask you this: Who do you think will get more yards, receptions, and TDs next season....the #1 TE, or the #1 WR?
In fact, Keith Jackson grabbed 81 passes in 1988, best ever for a rookie. Mike Ditka got over 1000 yards in 1961. Only 5 people, including Jackson, have ever caught 60 balls as a rookie, and Jackson is the only HOFer. Kittle caught 43, and guys like Gronk, Gonzales,Kelce.....don't appear on the list.
However, the list of WR rookies who've caught many more passes, for many more yards and TDs, is much longer. Last year, THREE rookie WRs taken in the first round caught over 70 balls. Hell, Christian Watson missed a big chunk of the season and STILL caught more balls for more yards and more TDs than most TEs, ever. So did Doubs.
The Packers as a team get the ball to the RBs and throw it downfield to WRs. That's what they do. That's the offense. We should add to the WR group this year and let them develop with Love. We can get a TE who can catch 35 passes on Day 3.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 01:36 pm
A healthy Watson will be our number one WR and probably catches and yards leader. I could see a Kincaid type WR pushing Doubs for the next most, certainly next year if not as a rookie. Lazard had the mist targets and second highest yardage last year. I could see Washington doing a lot if other things for us and still getting a couple of hundred yards as a rookie as well as some TD in the red zone. That guy can catch.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 10:10 am
It’s a great TE class. That’s why a team that doesn’t really feature the TE in the passing game can get a really good TE later in the draft.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 11:26 am
As the man who constantly reminded us of how well Tonyan did, that made me laugh. I suppose the wind has changed again.
Tonyan had more receptions than anyone other than Jones (RB) and Lazard. He had the third most yards behind Lazard and Watson. He did play in more games than any named above other than Jones.
So actually, we do use TEs a lot in the passing game, just based on Tonyan, but actually I believe that under plays it. A lot of Lazard snaps are part of a role performed by TEs. Certainly really good ones. There’s a legitimate argument for saying that Green Bay actually uses TEs or TE type roles more than most teams.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 11:55 am
We throw over 500 passes, and 100 of them go to the TE. Less than 20% of the passing offense, closer to 15%. A half a dozen targets/game.
Tonyan was a UDFA we developed into a pretty decent receiving threat. We don't use the TE in the passing game very much. And you can call Lazard a TE, but that doesn't make him a TE. You can call a tail a leg, but that doesn't give a dog 5 legs. Lazard is a WR, and he got targeted like a WR, and his production was like a WR.
We lost Adams, MVS, St. Brown, Lazard, Watkins and Cobb from our WR unit in the last 12 months. We replaced them with one stud, one complementary guy, and a few maybes. Without adding some talent to this unit, it's one of the weakest in the league, and if Watson gets hurt, it's probably the weakest.
I know people WANT that big TE rumbling down the seam, but the Packers NEED help at WR.
Your chances of getting 70 catches out of a first round rookie WR are much, much greater than a TE. We'd be lucky to get 45, which is more than Gronk, Kelce, Gonzales did in their rookie years. And since we could get a guy on Day 3 who could catch 30, I'd much rather spend those higher picks on people who'd do more good.
#15) Darnell Wright
#43) A. Adebawore
#45) Cedric Tillman
#78) Rasheed Rice
Day 3) Luke Schoonemaker.
This would improve the offense quite a bit. Much more than taking a TE in the first.
NickPerry
April 27, 2023 at 08:36 am
Off Topic here guys but I have to say it...
Anyone watch the Rodgers press conference as he was introduced as a Jet? Matt Schneidman of The Athletic asked Rodgers whether or not the Packers tried to reach him and anyone who knows him, KNOWS they have to "Facetime" him because of poor cell reception.
REALLY? I call BULLSHIT. He wasn't joking as some have tried to say. He was dead MF serious. I'm sorry but I just had to say something. I love what he was as a QB for the Packers. As a person he sure seems like a grade A Douche!
On Topic... NO QB PLEASE... Not until at least the 5th round like the kid from Houston. The Packers NEED to see this through with Jordan Love, and Love DESERVES as much... Have fun tonight my fellow Packers Fans!
GO PACK GO!!
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 08:54 am
Also, the very first time that I’ve heard him mention the words “Super Bowl,” prior to the start of the season in nearly a decade.
“That Super Bowl lll Trophy is looking pretty lonely…”
Smh
RCPackerFan
April 27, 2023 at 09:13 am
I just want Rodgers to play 65% or more of the snaps. Get us that 1st round pick next year!
Also, lets remember tonight fans. No matter who is drafted they are a Packer! No matter who becomes a Packer we will support them because they are a Packer. There maybe someone else we wanted them to pick in that spot, but after that pick is made it doesn't matter. That player is on our team and lets welcome them to GB!
Lets have fun!
Merry Christmas Packer fans!
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 09:57 am
I do love your sentiment shared here, RC, and couldn’t agree more.
It’s like Christmas to me, for Shizzle! And, very welcome after Bud coached my Bucks into laying a gigantic smoker last night.
There is this thing called a BENCH, Bud!!! FFS!!! Horst went through all that trouble to bring you AN ENFORCER, Jae Crowder, and you DNP him through the ENTIRE FUCKING HEAT SERIES???
Adios. Give HC to my buddy Charles Lee, PLEASE!
Whoooohph! Close that door!
Sorry, friends, for my rant. The sting is real.
Having Draft Day 1 upon us? I couldn’t be happier.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 10:12 am
In agreement RC!
We never know what the Packer brain trust is thinking when they draft. Think of Gary with the Smith Bros ahead of him, or Jordan Love with Rodgers ahead of him, etc. They take a long look at their current roster, as well as upcoming contracts expiring at different positions. They have a plan for each position both in 2023, as well as in future years.
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 09:44 am
"Anyone watch the Rodgers press conference as he was introduced as a Jet?"
Who?
croatpackfan
April 27, 2023 at 10:15 am
dobber, a box of chocolate cookies for you!
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 01:18 pm
"We'll never forget you, Brent".
I'm with you, dobber. My only interest in Rodgers is whether he plays enough so that we get a first round pick, but poorly enough that it's early in the round.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 10:21 am
Nick,
I am just extremely happy he is off the Packers roster. Throw in the fact we received a fair amount of compensation for him even better. The Packers can now focus on team football.
SoCalJim
April 27, 2023 at 10:38 am
Who are we talking about?
BirdDogUni
April 27, 2023 at 12:11 pm
Jordan Love...
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 01:37 pm
Knock, I've hated all the hysteria about going back to the 80s and being in cap hell forever because the Three Stooges are destroying the Packer franchise.
For a player who we don't need and don't want anymore, we're getting a #43 this year and a probable pick in the 20s next year. Cost=$40 million. Worth it? That's probably going to depend on who those two picks turn out to be.
The Packers were 8-9 last year, and I think we'll do better this year. I can't wait for the schedule to come out. 17 games, but the 6 against our division opponents count the most.
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 10:44 am
I think Rodger's comments were pretty embarrassing for a 40 year old man, and was just the perfect reminder of what GB's had to deal with over the years.
However he wants to frame it, he flat out ignored Gute's attempts to get a hold of him, and then acted surprised that GB made a decision to move on. He never actually thought he'd retire, so then was stuck having to pretend to be optimistic about what was next. The fact that only one team came calling was just a second gut punch. I think the guy's ego is pretty bruised, but unlike in the past he won't have the physical tools necessary to dominate the league and prove everyone wrong.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 04:24 pm
If Rodgers is half as smart as most people think he is, he had to know the writing was on the wall. He's probably had the best view of Love's increasing ability to run the offense and he knew that age, salary, 8-9, etc. was all going to combine to end his time at Lambeau.
He had to have known. All this stuff about going dark and deciding and stuff.....that's just face saving. He knew that the Packers had his contract, and one way or another, he was going to get paid. The Jets gave him that opportunity
He might have a chip on his shoulder, but that shoulder is 40 years old. My experience is that people who go through life with a chip on their shoulder eventually will get it knocked off.
I watched him lob up those touch passes off his back foot this year and thought "Is he ever going to step up into the pocket and drill a strike?" I'm pretty sure we'll see Love do that in Week 1.
Oppy
April 27, 2023 at 12:00 pm
If there's a QB on the board that is a higher tier player (based on the Packers big board) than any remaining players at positions of need, it should at the very least be considered "on the table" to take him.
If Love doesn't have the confidence to cope, he's probably not NFL starter material to begin with.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 01:23 pm
There is no QB of that caliber in this draft I’d take that will be available by round 2 and possibly at all. There are some longer term prospects who need work.
Handsback
April 27, 2023 at 08:42 am
People are looking for that WR that has a RB body so they can get those jet sweeps, YAC dialed into their offense. Well why not take a RB who can run routes like a WR and use him to do the same thing? With the added bonus of being a great running back and block for pass coverage. The kid adds a complexity to a system that wants to embrace confusion to the defense when you have a player like Jones and Robinson playing at the same time.
beerandbrats
April 27, 2023 at 09:06 am
You make a compelling argument Handsback. I would also add that this is most likely Aaron Jones' last year with the Pack because of cost and age. AJ Dillon hasn't proven to be much of a difference maker so we'll most likely be looking for another RB next year. We're in an excellent position to trade back and gain another second. The question is, is the kid a difference maker? This could be a difficult decision...
RCPackerFan
April 27, 2023 at 09:23 am
There are certain players that you break the rules for. Think of some past RB's that since they have been in the NFL and have been dynamic. Thinking about Adrian Peterson to Derrick Henry to Jonathan Taylor of recent. Those guys you break the rules for in drafting in the first round. How many teams would now draft Taylor in the first round if given the chance?
Robinson is one of those guys. If you have a chance to take him you should consider taking him.
The thing we need to consider is how much will they be used in the offense and other ways they can be used. Just because a player is labeled as a RB, doesn't mean that he only takes handoffs. Robinson can be used as an offensive weapon all over the field. And if they would pair him with Jones, that would be a pretty dynamic backfield.
Also a way to really help Love is through the running game. Having the best backfield in the league will only help Love.
I'm not saying they should take him, but if he is available, I really think they need to consider it.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 10:06 am
100%. En fuego!!!
LambeauPlain
April 27, 2023 at 11:40 am
Has been my sentiment, exactly, RC.
SicSemperTyrannis
April 27, 2023 at 10:10 am
Why can't a TE do that same thing but better?
Swisch
April 27, 2023 at 10:19 am
Compelling stuff, Handsback.
Also, it's a good thing to have three running backs in the NFL who are starter quality, what with the wear-and-tear of a long season necessitating time for rest and recovery -- especially if we want them fresh for the playoffs.
In a way, it seems a blessing for Aaron Jones to not be utilized all that much over the course of his career -- although there may have been specific situations during those seasons when it would have been smarter to get him the ball.
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It helps that all three of Jones, Dillon, and Bijan Robinson are adept at catching the ball.
Jones and Robinson can play the slot or even be set wide, while Dillon can be a quasi-tight end as far as both blocking and pass catching.
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A key consideration in all of this is whether or not the quick and elusive Tyler Goodson can fill the rushing/receiving role that would be taken by Robinson.
If so, then it may be better to take a tight end at #13.
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By the way, if Mayer is not all that quick-footed as a route runner, and Kincaid is not all that much of a blocker (plus the concern about his back), then maybe Washington is the guy at #13.
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I also like the idea of an edge rusher at #13 if someone is available who stands out compared to the others remaining at that position.
With Gary coming off an injury, and Preston older, edge seems a priority.
Plus, it's generally good to emphasize edge rusher as perhaps the key position on defense.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 11:42 am
You mean like Amari Rodgers? Goodson perhaps?
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 09:22 am
Most of these I agree with. I’d not rule out anyone medically though lay speculation. That’s something that the doctors need to make the call on and we need to listen to them. Kincaid’s fracture could increase the risk of recurrence or not, depending on details we don’t have. Gronk had surgery on his back at that point in his career.
As to attitude, that’s what scouts are for. There have been a lot of players where that turned out to be the case, but quite a few that it turned out to be utter BS. Gary was one of the latter.
I would add Meyer and JSN too at 13 for the same reasons as Branch. Don’t bet high on marginal athletes that excel at a lower level. History is littered with great college players who just couldn’t repeat it physically at a higher level. Those are day 3 and 3 gambles.
dobber
April 27, 2023 at 09:56 am
"I would add Meyer and JSN too at 13 for the same reasons as Branch. Don’t bet high on marginal athletes that excel at a lower level."
I'm finding JSN's RAS score to be 8.29. Better than Garrett Wilson's 7.80, and behind Chris Olave's 8.61. There are some schools who turn out high-profile draft picks at specific positions who are always good, and some whose highly rated guys at specific positions always disappoint. The only thing that I come back to on JSN is that OSU is on a good run with WR prospects. I think JSN will be a good NFL player, but I just don't think he's worth 13.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 11:39 am
He’s got elite agility. He’d have to have walked his 40 to ruin it completely. Other than a slight knock on weight, that’s how far his speed dragged him down.
No wonder RAS gets a bad reputation if one doesn't look beyond the overall and consider what the components mean. JSN at 198, might lose a foot race with Quay Walker. If that doesn’t get his advocates thinking, it should.
Pick that kind of player in the late second or third.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:54 pm
Thank you CW!
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 02:01 pm
JSN.....I wouldn't cry if we took him at #13. We need a guy who'll make the defense guard the side of the field that Watson isn't on and JSN could do that.
In multiple simulations, I can get Tillman at #45 and Rice at #78. IMO, that would do more to strengthen that unit than acquiring JSN, while having the additional virtue of allowing us to use that #13 elsewhere.
LambeauPlain
April 27, 2023 at 10:56 am
That is very true.
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 09:59 am
My do not draft is anyone that isn't a pass catcher or edge in the first two rounds. I'd love to see some combo of WR, Edge and TE with those first three picks, and would be very happy trading down in the first round to add another top 60 pick.
Could GB use a top tier OL? Sure, who couldn't. But I think Yosh, Jenkins, Meyers, Runyan and Tom is a decent OL for '24. And if you go that route, spend a few mid round picks on OL this year and next year for depth. Not going to be the best line in the league, but it can be more than serviceable.
Could GB use an elite RB to replace Aaron Jones next year? Again, sure... but we just let Jamaal Williams walk and he rushed for a thousand yards last year. The gap between elite RBs and JAGs is not the differentiator that gets you a SB win.
Draft a safety in round 3 or 4, there's plenty of prospects in that range.
Fact is, GB needs year 1 starters at WR, TE and Edge and you're not likely to find those after round 2 at those positions.
greengold
April 27, 2023 at 10:09 am
You deserve a medal here Cubby.
SicSemperTyrannis
April 27, 2023 at 10:18 am
I agree with your priorities, and I think TE fits our offensive scheme best. At #13 I like best TE or edge available, thinking that will likely be a TE. The top 3 or so look way better than the rest, although trading back still seems like a good option. I don't understand the #13 for 15 swap, and doubt Gutey traded up to trade down.
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 10:59 am
Said it above... let's keep the theme going... Leverage! If a top prospect is falling, #13 is more valuable than #15. If Gute's goal is to get the best haul for his #1 pick, having 13 rather than 15 gives him more leverage to improve that trade for GB.
Maybe this Rodgers trade just gets better and better?
That said, I'm fully preparing myself for them to trade 13 and 42 to move up and get a T, just so I can be entirely disappointed.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 02:09 pm
""Maybe this Rodgers trade just gets better and better?"""
Truly, it'll be several years before it can be fully measured. The guys we get with those picks could be injury cases, or JAGs, or perennial Pro Bowlers.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, these draft picks we've acquired from the Jets come at a cost of $40 million.
.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 27, 2023 at 06:59 pm
Had AR played for GB in 2023, his dead money would have gotten bigger. If he played in 2024 as well, it would have hit $76M. The $40M was already a done deal. It was inescapable. The $40M cost was for his prior service, not for these draft picks.
Swisch
April 27, 2023 at 10:42 am
Sounds good to me to start the draft with some combo of WR, Edge, and TE.
RCPackerFan
April 27, 2023 at 10:58 am
Cubby, I agree about the 3 positions they need year 1 starters at. WR, TE and Edge. If their first 3 picks are at those positions I will be very happy with that.
They do need starter quality players at DL and S also. I believe DL is a bigger need then most are talking about right now.
For the OL, the OL got much better as the season went on, and after they put Jenkins back at LG. Bakhtiari and Jenkisn healthy on the left side just changes the OL. Myers got better as the season went on. I think and offseason practicing at RG will help Ruyan significantly. They have 2 very good options at RT with Yosh and with Tom. I feel very good about our OL. I would assume they will be drafting at least 1 OL in the mid rounds. That is their thing.
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 11:51 am
Didn't Yosh play surprisingly well when Bahk and Jenkins got injured two years ago? I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, but I thought he did really well in some key games at LT. I'm just not knowledgeable enough to know why he can't be the future at LT.
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 10:01 am
Wouldn't take Jalen Carter in the first two rounds. Guy shows up to his pro day 9 pounds heavier and can't finish his short workout because he's out of breath and cramping. On the biggest workout of his life? Yikes
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 10:27 am
Cubby,
There obviously is so much more information going on with Jalen than we know. Remember the OL we drafted about 4-5 years ago where a friend (maybe roommate) took his gun and committed suicide? In fact, the OL sat out what would have been his rookie year as he was so traumatized over it. The following year he came to camp but he ended up getting cut. Without knowing the inside scoop on Jalen all I would say is that if I was somehow involved in the death of two teammates/staff/friends football at the moment and working out would not be high on my list. Not sure if this is going on with Jalen or if it is something else entirely, but guarantee the Packers are doing a deep dive researching. If Jalen is simply struggling with his friends deaths & his involvement where he is showing remorse and is depressed that likely short-term is probably a good thing showing his moral character. He has a number of months to get ready yet for the 2023 season should he be focused & motivated. Cannot even imagine what Jalen would do for our defense if he fell and he is able to focus.
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 10:38 am
For sure, and I feel bad for the kid. The circumstances around that crash say a lot about decision making skills too, which is scary.
BirdDogUni
April 27, 2023 at 11:01 am
JSN should top the list. SMH
splitpea1
April 27, 2023 at 11:08 am
I am amazed TE Musgrave didn't make anyone's list. With questionable blocking skills, lack of consistent production, and potential lingering injury issues, I would let another team roll the dice with him. I know he didn't play in a favorable offense in college, but still...I hope Gute isn't seduced by the mirage of athletic potential vs. actual production.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 11:19 am
However, what if he isn't slated to play TE as you point out but placed in a Slot WR role? Essentially, replacing Lazard role would that change your thoughts? At 6'6" and 255 lbs who runs a 4.5. With TE experience in college and 30 lbs heavier (while not good at Physics I have never forgotten) Musgrave is likely a much better blocker than Lazard....should....Musgrave want to be.
splitpea1
April 27, 2023 at 11:38 am
No, no, and no. This idea of drafting players and finding unfamiliar roles for them at the pro level needs to cease and desist.
stockholder
April 27, 2023 at 12:20 pm
I like his film.
But the 40 will get him drafted.
Any LB/safety can cover a slow TE.
splitpea1
April 27, 2023 at 01:20 pm
Great, you can have him on your team. I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole. Or better yet, maybe the Jets will take him and he can be with your buddy Rodgers.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 02:16 pm
Nobody can cover anybody. That's why QBs are completing 2/3 of their passes, even in the face of furious pass rushers. These WRs are 220 lbs and insanely fast, the TEs are 250 lbs and still pretty fast, and you're not even allowed to touch them after 5 yards, and if you tackle them too hard it's a penalty because they're "defenseless".
IMO, the best you can hope for is to tackle people after the catch. But not too hard. Hope that the pass rush helps you, and pray that you get lucky with a tipped ball or something.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:57 pm
Seems to have worked out pretty well for Gary!
BirdDogUni
April 27, 2023 at 11:12 am
I hope JSN goes to duh bares at 9 or viks at 23... That way Stokes can easily cover him, since he's so slow. ; )
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 11:43 am
You mean Douglas? He’d fit very well on JSN.
BirdDogUni
April 27, 2023 at 12:14 pm
Either/Or...
My only problem is, I felt the same way about taking Gary at 12, so my fear is Gutey goes against all reason and drafts him at 13. (I wouldn't draft him at 33, but that's just me.)
4thand10
April 27, 2023 at 12:41 pm
agree BDU
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 11:41 am
Not really the right place to post this, but...
The Eagles are at #10, and only have six picks this draft. They need more picks and their GM loves to trade. I can see Gute trading 13 and other picks to move up to 10 if one of the top 5 names fall.
Coldworld
April 27, 2023 at 11:44 am
We need our picks. In fact we could use more. Lots of holes, lots of thin patches and no cap.
Cubbygold
April 27, 2023 at 11:49 am
I would much rather see a trade down than up, I'm with you.
stockholder
April 27, 2023 at 12:23 pm
The only way you trade down; is picks for Next year.
Swap ones; but make them give up their #1 in 2024.
Because this draft is too weak.
And next years will be better.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:13 pm
I'd be completely shocked Cubby if Gutey moved up. Might it happen sure but the Packer needs are plentiful. The good thing is we shall find out in just a few more hours....
4thand10
April 27, 2023 at 12:41 pm
I wouldn’t sleep on Zay Flowers…he’d have to drop in the right spot. I wouldnt take him in the 1st or even the 2nd.BUT I watched some college games, Listened to Ex WR Steve Smith. Just like Big Uglys they only make so many real football players. And this dude catches contested catches. Jukes , dudes lose shoes trying to catch him. He catches with his hands. PFF is pretty good at analysis. That dude is shifty, twitchy and catches everything…I would compare him to a sproles, Steve smith type big play gadget guy . While teams are zeroing in on Watson and Doubs there would be an “ Oh, S#*$” type playmaker they would have to account for. College even Smith-Njigba was caught from behind. No one is catching Zay Flowers from behind. You can’t teach speed and catching contested balls. JMHO
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:11 pm
4th,
As I started my deep dive into the 2023 draft talent Zay Flowers was my first love. :)
Unbelievable player!
I'd love to put Bijan Robinson and Zay Flowers next to one another and see which one can cut, spin, change direction faster/better, and anticipate quicker. Zay is one hell of a fun player to watch & I agree depending on how the draft unfolds & where he is come a Packer selection I would not have any problem with him being signed. I do not recall any WR in recent years that can move like that on the Packer roster.
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 04:06 pm
We don't draft midget WRs. That's why you can't recall any recently. The only short guy I recall us drafting is.......Amari Rodgers.
We haven't taken an offensive skill position player in the first round since 2002. If that streak is going to be broken, it won't be broken by a midget .
Put me down for Tillman at 45 and Rice at 78.
Oppy
April 29, 2023 at 05:06 am
Randall Cobb?
or does he get a pass because we weren't sure he was a WR or a RB?
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
April 27, 2023 at 01:45 pm
The one thing for certain this thread illustrates.....is we all are completely all over the fricken board without consensus on who & which position we believe the Packers should draft, which is why the draft is so much fun!
Leatherhead
April 27, 2023 at 03:32 pm
Yup. Hope springs eternal. Everybody is 0-0. Different people have a different way of doing things, and that's why Marty Schottenheimer and Don Coryell both had the same job. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
I like the 6blockers/4weapons combo. It works for me. It worked for me when the 6th blocker was John Kuhn, it worked for me when it was Marcedes Lewis. Other people want the Double TE, the 3-1-1, the smash mouth I formation.
DragonSilk
April 29, 2023 at 04:36 am
I guess The Packers brain trust agreed about Brain Branch. They essentially traded him to The Lions for more picks. As with all drafts check back in 2 or 3 years to see who got burned here.