Packers Deep Dive - Second Round Draft Pick - Luke Musgrave
Musgrave was selected with the pick acquired by the Packers in the Aaron Rodgers deal
The Green Bay Packers needed pass-catching options to surround Jordan Love with more talent. They also needed tight end depth, because there was not much behind Josiah Deguara to effectively play in the offense. So why not do both at the same time? That's what general manager Brian Gutekunst did with pick 42, the one they had acquired from the New York Jets in the Aaron Rodgers trade, taking Oregon State' Luke Musgrave.
If Dalton Kincaid was a frequent option in mocks for the Packers in the first round, Green Bay got a cheaper option, but arguably with an even higher ceiling — even though the floor is lower, especially because a knee injury forced Musgrave to miss all but two games in 2022, so the production isn't there. In 2021, Musgrave had 22 receptions for 304 yards and one touchdown in 10 games. Last year, in two games, he had 11 receptions for 169 yards and one touchdown — if you extrapolate the sample size, the performance upgrade becomes evident.
The newest member of Green Bay's offense: Luke Musgrave 🧀#GoPackGo pic.twitter.com/9WZsjBSyMc
— The 33rd Team (@The33rdTeamFB) April 29, 2023
And that's why, according to The Athletic's draft analyst Dane Brugler, Musgrave was the best pick in the draft.
"In my Day 2 mock draft, I projected Musgrave to Green Bay because of the way he fits the team’s profile and the potential impact he can make in that offense. With his diverse athletic background, Musgrave is a big, loose athlete who can run the seam, stem defenders or create movement as a combo tight end," Brugler wrote.
Musgrave was also praised by NFL Network's analyst Daniel Jeremiah, who had him as the tight end 4 in the class, and 39th overall prospect.
"Musgrave is a tall, muscular tight end with elite play speed. Unfortunately, he missed all but two games of the 2022 season due to injury. He's sudden in his release and is a weapon running down the seam. He pulls away from second-level defenders and can naturally high point the football. He is more of a home run hitter than an option-route player at this point in his development. He is consistent catching balls on his frame, but he struggles to reel in low passes when on the move. After the catch, he has the speed to pull away. He is a willing blocker and can effectively shield/wall off at the point of attack. Overall, Musgrave isn’t polished and he’s missed time, but he has the potential to emerge as the top tight end in the class."
In general, Musgrave is primed to be an important offensive weapon for the Packers if he can stay on the field, and his ability to run yards after the catch is impressive, even without much capacity to break tackles.
"We're excited about what he brings to the table in terms of speed, the ability to stretch the field," Packers vice president of player personnel Jon-Eric Sullivan said after the pick. "He comes from a football background. Smart kid, wired right."
8️⃣8️⃣ @Luke_Musgrave19 pic.twitter.com/XxAMfguWuQ
— Green Bay Packers (@packers) May 1, 2023
Vertical speed, according to Sullivan, is what convinced the Packers to give Musgrave a chance. And this is particularly important because the Packers haven't had a speedy tight end for a long time. With his characteristics, he's ideally suited to play 12 personnel with another tight end on the field, something the Packers will probably explore with Deguara and third-round pick Tucker Kraft.
The athletic profile is also a big factor, especially considering how Brian Gutekunst values what this brings to the table — and how the history at the position shows athletic freaks are generally those who have success. Musgrave’s Relative Athletic Score (RAS) is 9.78 out of 10, including elite grades for height, vertical jump, broad jump, 40-yard dash, 20- and 10- yard splits. There isn’t one single metric in which Musgrave is athletically below average. He had the best RAS among Senior Bowl tight ends this year. His skiing background might be an explanation.
“I’ve seen him skiing on YouTube and I said, ‘Luke’s hips move like that all the time,” Brian Wozniak, Oregon State’s tight ends coach, told the New York Post. “It’s the first time I’ve ever recruited a guy that had that deep a background of [skiing]. He’s so explosive and can gain ground really quick.”
During his college career, Musgrave showed he can also learn how to be an NFL in-line blocker. He had more than 500 run-blocking snaps. And his versatility is clear, with 36% of the snaps coming from the slot.
Luke Musgrave’s selection is also important for his former program at Oregon State. He’s the highest drafted player from that school since wide receiver Brandin Cooks was selected by the New Orleans Saints in the 2014 first round.
The Packers combined their preferred profile and what they need in order to select Musgrave so high in the draft. It might take some time, but the tight end has the potential to be exactly what the team needs in the long run.
Photo: Vasha Hunt-USA TODAY Sports
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Wendell Ferreira covers the Green Bay Packers for Zone Coverage and Cheesehead TV. He is a Brazilian journalist with over a decade of experience covering the NFL, soccer, NBA, and MMA. Follow him on twitter at @wendellfp
Comments (81)
Bearmeat
May 02, 2023 at 07:32 am
Pretty excited about Musgrave and Kraft. I think 2023 might be pretty tough for the Packers, but 2024... man... if Love plays even "pretty well" LOOK OUT.
Guam
May 02, 2023 at 07:38 am
Concur Bearmeat. TEs usually take a year or two to figure out playing in the NFL, but the Packers might have finally gotten the TE position right. 2023 might be a bumpy ride, but I like our future.
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 07:50 am
I agree that it typically takes rookie TE's a couple of years to put up big numbers, I don't think it would take much for Musgrave and Kraft to match the last 2 years TE numbers from Lewis and Tonyan.
2022 - Tonyan and Lewis combined for 59 catches, 536 yards, 4 TD's.
2021 - Tonyan (injured), Lewis and Degura combined for 66 catches, 663 yards, 4 TD's.
They aren't asking them to replace Kelce numbers or anything. Basically if they each average 15 yards receiving per game they will almost match last years yards. That isn't asking for a lot.
dobber
May 02, 2023 at 07:54 am
Yes and no: they might cover the reception numbers in aggregate, but neither is the blocker that Lewis was. Musgrave is possibly an upgrade from Tonyan as a blocker.
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 07:57 am
To be fair, who in the league is as good of a blocker as Lewis is? Just like what WR's can they get that would be as good of a blocker as Lazard at WR?
While they may not be as good of a blocker, they can make up for it as a weapon in the offense.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 12:00 pm
Lewis was too slow to get out in space and be the lead. He could hold the corner, but Davis was getting better doing that job as the year went on. Faster TEs replace your WRs as Blockers. Let them catch passes and spread the DBs.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 08:08 am
THAT will be really interesting to find out!
At least… it could be.
I think Kraft could surprise as an in-line blocker. Hay bail tossing tough. He loves it too. His comments about lighting up the player in front of him are encouraging.
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 08:14 am
I don't think Musgrave is absolutely horrible either. Not that he is Lewis, but I think he can be ok and will get better once he gets in the NFL.
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 08:14 am
What? Noooo Wayyy?
Double Post.
Fuck sake.
TKWorldWide
May 02, 2023 at 09:52 am
Twice the fun!
Coldworld
May 02, 2023 at 09:41 am
He’s able to lead block somewhat, but in line is stretching it. More Lazard than a true TE at this point. He’s a body in the way, stands upright, no leverage or technique. Yes, technically he’s a blocker on snaps and a bigger guy, but he blocks like a WR, he doesn’t move guys he gets in the way and delays if he can.
BirdDogUni
May 02, 2023 at 10:52 am
No way he can be worse than Deguara as a rookie. That was painful to watch. First block Deguara attempted, he almost killed himself and had to come out of the game, IIRC.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 11:10 am
I beg to differ, but I’ve seen Musgrave in-line block quite successfully on a number of occasions. I watch PAC 12 being ASU alum.
“A body in the way,” is an insult. He works at it, and, really, has great, easy technique. Solid punches, always, after setting base.
More often than not, he’s a successful in-line blocker. Anchors well. Punches well and with good timing. It’s surprising.
You wouldn’t expect that looking at him, but he’s good. Effective too, without blowing opponents up. Just, effective enough for those plays to be positive plays. Positive runs. Super slippery at the LOS w his releases. And, he’s got some pass pro to him as a blocker as well.
Have seen his misses too, but he takes pride in his blocking. That’s for sure.
Nobody’s going to be Mercedes Lewis, but I think both Musgrave & Kraft will give us plenty of solid blocking that we all can be happy with.
His uncle was NFL QB Bill Musgrave. Lindy’s had Luke Musgrave ranked as the #2 TE in the class ahead of Mayer. They say his traits “seem primed to make him a future Pro Bowl selection.”
Just watch Beavers football and you’ll see him help spring all kinds of successful runs as an in-line blocker. Don’t go looking for pancakes either. Effective in-line, pure & simple.
Anybody saying he can’t? They’re lying, listening to bad info, or do not know.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 11:06 am
They will be blocking in space. Kraft can work the edge guys. Open up the Playbook, let it rip. These guys know how to get vertical. Run the New Offenses. If a RT needs help, he should be replaced.
Guam
May 02, 2023 at 07:55 am
Agree that it won't take much to equal the TE output of prior years, but those years were Rodgers' offense and he didn't use TEs and the middle of the field much. If MLF uses more of the Shanahan offense, then a lot more will be expected of the Packer TEs. And that will make their learning curve steeper. Think Kittle-esque production..........
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 08:03 am
I don't think its really fair to put blame on Rodgers for TE's lack of production.
In 2020 Tonyan had 52 catches on 59 targets for 586 yards and 11 TD's.
Last year he had 53 catches on 67 targets for 470 yards and 2 TD's.
Tonyan simply wasn't the same player he was 2 years ago.
Basically my point is that it won't take that much for our rookie TE's to match the production from last year or the previous year when Tonyan got hurt.
Guam
May 02, 2023 at 08:42 am
I think we are going to respectfully agree to disagree about Rodgers' use of TEs. Your point about Tonyan's injury is valid, but 50 some catches for 500 yards is a fairly low bar for TEs (for example SF's Kittle has averaged 66 receptions for 876 yards per year over his six year career and that includes his rookie campaign where his stats were much lower). The Packers TE numbers are reflective of an offense (McCarthy/Rodgers) that prefers a perimeter passing attack.
I suspect we may see a different level of usage of TEs in a more Shanahan style offense. And that different level of usage will offer a bigger adjustment challenge for our new TEs.
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 09:07 am
He did have 67 targets. Now I don't know how many were catchable and whatnot. But that is the total. And in comparison to other teams. GB had 96 tight end targets. Comparing that to other teams they ranked 24th in TE targets. Teams with fewer TE targets were Bengals, Eagles, Lions, Bears, Panthers, Bills, Dolphins, Giants. Other teams right above GB in targets include Patriots with 97, 49ers and Commanders with 98, Raiders with 101, Saints 102, Falcons 104, Colts with 108.
On the other end of the spectrum the teams with the most TE targets were Ravens with 204, Chiefs with 201, Vikings with 146, Steelers with 138, and Seahawks with 136.
Yeah I can agree that we may see more TE's being used then before. This could have an entirely different look with Love then it was with Rodgers. But they have entirely different players with Musgrave and Kraft then they had with Tonyan and Lewis. I believe they will try to use the athleticism more with the TE's they have now.
At the very least he will find packages for them to be used. And I think we will see a lot more production out of Deguara.
Guam
May 02, 2023 at 10:42 am
The Packers ranking 24th in TE usage doesn't surprise me at all. And I completely agree with your last paragraph - the Packers haven't had fast, athletic TEs for awhile now and Musgrave and Kraft change that. If LaFleur uses them effectively along with the speed of Watson. Reed and Doubs outside, this offense could be lots of fun.
golfpacker1
May 02, 2023 at 10:23 am
Rodgers wasn't the same player either RC. Our red zone offense was bad, when we could get to the red zone. I am pulling for AR to have success in New York and I think he will.
Even though he had the back to back MVPs, many people including myself had noticed the last four years Rodgers was missing passes he always completed before. As accurate as the best QBS are and have been, AR was hands down the most accurate passer ever. FO was right to move him, but they were a year too late.
Our new TEs will be fine and I predict they will each catch between 40 & 50 passes this year. These 2 will help sustain drives and be chain movers as well as red zone weapons.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 11:22 am
You need TEs with speed to stress the seams and move fast through the crosses, but expect more air raid vector routes from these guys. Those other guys have been replaced for a reason. The new group is faster: 4.58 for Kraft, 4.6 for Musgrave, Cam McDonald also @ 4.6. I wouldn't sleep on him either. He could challenge for a roster spot.
DoubleJ
May 02, 2023 at 02:52 pm
"The new group is faster: 4.58 for Kraft, 4.6 for Musgrave"
Kraft ran a 4.69 at the combine and 4.63 at his pro day. Musgrave while only having a 4.61/40 was clocked at 20MPH at the senior bowl. Both have 10 yard splits at 1.6 or less.
HawkPacker
May 02, 2023 at 07:46 am
I have to believe that Love will be our quarterback for the future but if not, we may have two first rounders in 2024 and may be able to move up significantly in the draft to select one of the stud qb's in next years draft!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 08:55 am
Ain't happening Hawk!
Love is signed thru 2024, and he is going to ball out. The FO will want to give him those two seasons to prove it. Thirdly, the # of wins thePackers have in 2023 will push our 1st round down.
The Packers will use those two 1st round picks in 2024 on (1) OT, and (2) Safety. 😉
murf7777
May 02, 2023 at 08:31 am
Bearmeat….I couldn’t agree more about our offense in 2023 being a bit sporadic and frustrating at times.
Our TE’s will be young and it is one position that takes a year or two to learn and achieve decent production. WR’s, basically not one Vet at this time. Watson looked great but still had drop issues. The WR’s will have their share of highlights but will also have a fair amount of lowlights. The bright spot is our RB’s and if healthy our OL, that in itself will help produce what I expect to be better numbers than last year, but not by much. I would guess our Offense to be somewhere average to below. But as you said watch out for 2024. One caveat is that Love becomes at least an average starter in the NFL for a breakout 2024.
I’m very excited about the potential with Musgrave. Between him and Reed we have two types of pass catchers we haven’t seen in the Packer offense in a long time.
A good tag name to the 2023 draft is potential with lower floor, but high ceiling prospects. I see a number of boom or bust type prospects. When rebuilding a team with 24 draft picks in the last two drafts that make sense to me. I think that is why Gutey didn’t trade up, get as many shots as possible to get your future starters.
I’m hoping us Packer fans temper our expectations and provide some encouragement to this offense and not be too critical.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 09:17 am
Murf,
Now I just responded to Hawk above in a light-hearted way but in all seriousness I am not entirely sure about tempering expectations. In some ways yes, but in other ways no!
We all know (should know) the transition taking place within the Packer roster is happening exactly at the same time when all three Division rivals are evolving & improving. There isn't a pushover in the Division like there has been consistently for 15 years. Even the Bears with all their offseason changes should be exponentially improved. Having said that I truly believe the following:
1. Yes, there are going to be growing pains offensively, as well as with some of the individual young players. It will also be exciting watching the evolution and growth of an eventual powerhouse offense.
2. Jordan Love plays equal to or better than Rodgers did during the 2022 season. Unlike Rodgers in 2022, Love will have one or more 300 yard passing games. Partially because Love is in first year starting & partially because of all the young WR's & TE's Love will have more interceptions.
3. The offense overall will have more yardage than 2022.
4. The Special Teams will be vastly improved and the strength of our team.
5. The defense will play better than last year.
6. The Packers will equal, or have more victories than they had in 2022.
I truly believe the team will respond & play well even with the growing pains. The defense and special teams know early in the season they need to play exceptional to help cover for the offense.
dobber
May 02, 2023 at 07:33 am
"he's ideally suited to play 12 personnel with another tight end on the field, something the Packers will probably explore with Deguara and third-round pick Tucker Kraft."
Musgrave fits into the Tonyan/Lazard big-slot, bully-DBs-and-small-chase-LBs-in-the-run-game role right off the bat. Kraft is the in-line guy by default. I don't think it changes Deguara's snaps very much. Three very different roles in the Packers offense as it's been played the last couple years. If Musgrave's in-line blocking improves quickly, it really changes how the Packers can use those two TEs and gives them the two combo-TEs I was hoping for. Musgrave and Reed will eat into each others' snaps in the slot.
Does LaF have the open and creative mind to look for different opportunities with this player group?
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 07:44 am
Yeah dobber, I think there’s a very good chance Reed pulls a bunch of Z WR snaps in this O.
Wicks? Looks like a perfect X WR backing up Watson.
Melton and Musgrave could easily switch out the slot reps. Melton can also work the Z. He’s pretty versatile.
dobber
May 02, 2023 at 07:47 am
Bo Melton will have to fight to make this roster. He's got some background in STs, and that might make the difference in sticking around as a specialist/6th WR.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 08:54 am
You and everyone are basing that off numbers/draft slotting severely affected by probably some of the worst QB play in FBS.
I think Melton is going to turn a lot of heads this season, and probably beats out Toure for the top Slot WR role.
Melton put up surprisingly good numbers with his QB providing him with the #2 ranking in all of FBS in UNcatchable targets.
Yeah, Melton’s (4.34 speed) got background in literally everything a WR could be asked to do (X, Y, Z WR roles), including JET concepts. He was that do it all player at Rutgers.
Wouldn’t be surprised seeing Melton Slot WR and Reed Z WR on some of those jets.
Coldworld
May 02, 2023 at 09:57 am
Melton is the nearest thing to a pure slot on this roster, physically and in terms of strength. His outside usage is purely due to his undoubted speed, not as a regular prospect. Toure/Doubs/Reed are all versatile types who can play most positions.
Wicks and DuBose are the only true X candidates behind Watson among the WRs. Wicks is the least likely to see slot time. It wouldn’t shock me to see Musgrave play X too, with his size, speed combination. Either new TE could operate in the slot. Reed, Melton and perhaps Goodson are candidates for the option role if there is one.
If I had to guess, Melton’s going to have to win the slot role outright. There are too many options for snaps there that are effective and game day depth would lean towards players like Toure and perhaps DuBose who can play more position or Wicks coming in and Reed or Doubs moving to the slot.
I like Melton, but he’s, with Wicks, actually the most role defined WR in the roster who wasn’t a UDFA. He’s going to have to show he’s a real threat we can’t do without or be active through STs, which this year is a crowded field. However, injuries happen, and good teams know and prepare for options for that.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 03:21 pm
Hey Coldworld,
I love the guy. While nearly every draft publication projected Bo Melton to the slot, where he had 170 career snaps, he actually totaled 725 career wide snaps. (PFF)
In 2021, only 16 of his 56 receptions were from the slot. Melton also had 24 screen catches that season, 8 deep catches, and 12 missed tackles forced.
Regardless, he’s a do it all player, and might win a spot at Slot. I wouldn’t put it past him. In 2020 v Maryland, Melton had 217 all purpose yds. 48 receiving, 36 rushing, 108 on KOs, and 7 on punts.
In the NFL, Melton projects to the Z or Y WR. Wide or Slot. The advantageous part of that is he can line up at either position, at any time.
He ran gos, posts, corners, hitches/stops, outs, slants, digs, now & smoke routes. Very accomplished route runner and receiver. Highly elusive. Great YAC and RAC fights through contact.
Willing, solid blocker too.
That dude simply needed a good QB! Flip on hit tape. It’s nuts.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 12:08 pm
Wouldn't Reed be the probable favorite to fill the slot? They used a two pick on him.
Guam
May 02, 2023 at 07:50 am
I think this will be the year we finally see LaFleur's offense. Shanahan's offense has always used TEs, H-backs, RBs and fullbacks and I thought that was what MLF was bringing to Green Bay. I have long believed Rodgers co-opted that offense into something else with his dislike of pre-snap motion and preference for a perimeter passing attack.
I don't know whether MLF's offense will be better or worse than Rodgers', but I do expect it will be his offense rather than Rodgers'. And Gute just got him the TEs needed to execute it.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 09:04 am
Bravo, Guam. Well said. I couldn’t agree more, and I can’t wait to see all these new players running precisely what LaFleur wants run.
TKWorldWide
May 02, 2023 at 09:55 am
With NO secret hand signals??? 😉
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 12:19 pm
Defenses are shutting down wide-zone, horizontal schemes, like Detroit did in the season finale. The best results are vertical attacks, even Shanahan wants the ball going forward to Aiyuk , Deebo and Gray. He just didn't have the QB to peg it last season. He beat up Jimmy G and Trey Lance with the stock car derby. LaFleur should run his own scheme and get better.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 12:29 pm
Well, Don Coryell, Lavell Edwards, and Mike Leach are now gone, but Mouse Davis is still around at age 90, if he needs a tutor,or Hal Mumme.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 04:04 pm
Don Coryell was something else!!!
CheesedDeadHead
May 02, 2023 at 02:10 pm
"Musgrave fits into the Tonyan/Lazard big-slot, bully-DBs-and-small-chase-LBs-in-the-run-game role right off the bat. Kraft is the in-line guy by default. I don't think it changes Deguara's snaps very much. Three very different roles in the Packers offense as it's been played the last couple years. "
It would be nice if Kraft can improve his catching and Musgrave his in-line blocking as having 2 guys with multiple strengths makes it that much harder on the defense. Last year defenses could pretty much ignore Lewis downfield as the chance he was thrown to was almost nil and big bob was coming out to catch, not really to block. It just added to the predictability which often just kept the Packers offense from getting any momentum. I'd also like to see them throwing more to Deguera. He almost caught everything thrown at him last year. He also needs some uncertainty for his role to confuse defenses,
dobber
May 02, 2023 at 02:27 pm
Agreed! Two effective combo guys changes this offense a lot...or rather allows LaF to emphasize different parts of the offense we didn't see as much.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 04:03 pm
Musgrave & Kraft are combo guys at TE, for sure, and Reed & Melton are combo guys at WR, wide & slot.
I’ll say this should be fun for LaFleur to scheme, and for us to watch.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 09:27 am
That is a good point! In the past I have questioned this, but I believe he does. With Rodgers gone no doubt he knows he has to get back to being creative offensively. Remember during the Combine all the coaches stayed back at Lambeau working on schemes? Believe the two TE's and the 12 personnel approach has been in the plan for awhile now. All pre-draft I anticipated the Packers were drafting either Kincaid, or Musgrave for the 12 personnel offense, or with one of them playing the big/power slot. This offense is going to be both good & exciting!
HawkPacker
May 02, 2023 at 07:44 am
I saw, in a lot of early mock drafts that Green Bay was to select him in the first round. I didn't like it because for a 15 pick I thought that was a bit early for any TE much less Musgrave. I didn't particularly care of Musgrave as he was not 'sexy' enough as compared to all the tight ends. There was not as much fanfare dedicated to him compared to other tight ends.
This, of course, was foolish on my part. Based on what I have read about him and the fact that we got him in the second round makes me totally satisfied. He, along with Tucker Kraft, can line up in the 12 formation and we can either run or pass which is what we love to do under LAF.
Nice article Wendell.
dobber
May 02, 2023 at 07:51 am
Agreed: if your skill position guys on field are Doubs, Watson, Musgrave, Kraft, and AJones, there's a lot of versatility there. If you're making the defensive calls there's a lot of opportunities for guys to get lost in coverage.
CheesedDeadHead
May 02, 2023 at 02:18 pm
Yep, every additional quality skill guy makes it easier for all the others.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 09:41 am
Because Jordan Love will actually throw those seam routes down the middle, while spreading the ball around it is going to completely change how the defenses play the Packers. Certainly Watson will continue to receive some extra attention but they will not be able to bracket him all game. Never understood how so many Packer fans pre-draft could not see how a player & athlete like Musgrave at 6'6", 255 lbs with exceptional hands who runs the 40 at the speed he does (sub 4.6) would not be a huge asset to the offense. It defied logic to me with the Packers needing WR's & TE's not to see what Musgrave potentially could do. He is that hybrid receiver who could play both TE & the Slot. Been excited for Musgrave to be a Packer for a number of months now, but combine the fact he is the pick they got in exchange for Rodgers and definitely want to see this young kid stay health & be a force.
DoubleJ
May 02, 2023 at 08:07 am
I'm excited to see how he looks in training camp. Watching his tape you see him pull away from defenders. Even Tonyan during his best season you didn't see him pull away like Musgrave does. I think adding some lower body strength during the next off-season will allow Musgrave to break more tackles without losing speed. Overall the TE room went from an issue to possibly being fixed in one year.
Coldworld
May 02, 2023 at 10:04 am
Musgrave is a stupidly fast TE or a stupidly large WR. He’s truly an athletic freak. He’s going to need polishing to be a true TE, which he really wasn’t asked to be, but an innovative caller should have him contributing early and often in the passing game.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 09:50 am
Agree CW!
If Tucker becomes the TE I believe he is capable of it will be interesting to see what percentage of the time ML uses Musgrave at TE (and 12 personnel) vs the Slot. The development & effectiveness of the young players Wicks, Reed, Toure, Melton, Tucker, and Musgrave will determine their roles. How do they best interact with Doubs & Watson for the best combination at the same time. Musgrave's upside should he stay healthy could even be at the same level, or even higher than a guy like Watson based purely on his size & athleticism. Having Musgrave operating mainly in the middle of the field with Watson up the field with all the underneath talent we now have and this offense has the skilled players at every level.
TKWorldWide
May 02, 2023 at 07:49 am
Way back when Philly picked Keith Jackson, Buddy Ryan said, “We’re going to feature him.”
I think current offenses are too diverse to use that expression about any receiver very often. If GB “features” anyone in 2023, it should be Watson. But the supporting cast of receiving options is looking better and better!
DoubleJ
May 02, 2023 at 08:11 am
With the amount of speed the team has for skill players it is going to be hard for defenses to defend them. Assuming Love in the QB this offense could be exciting. I think this season is going to be like Rodgers 2008 season in that they go 6-11 or so. However, the lumps they take this year will be smoothed out in 2024 and the offense takes off like the 2009 team. That said it all depends on if Love looks like a future QB1.
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 08:28 am
Last year Rodgers didn't play up to his MVP level of play. Our OL was a mess for half the year. Our WR's were a mess basically until Dallas when Watson went off.
Even though this is Loves first year, I don't think it will be a significant drop off.
The OL imo is going to be much improved. With Bakhtiari and Jenkins another year removed from acl injuries, they will be even better. Myers improved each game. Runyan having an offseason to prepare at RG and they will figure out the RT in camp. Our OL should be greatly improved.
WR Watson, Doubs and Toure all should be significantly better this year. Add in Jayden Reed, Wicks, DuBose, and our WR's should be improved. Now they won't Lazards production, but Watson and Doubs will increase theirs. Reed could easily match Cobbs. Cobb had 34 catches for 417 yards. Doubs had 42 for 425 and Watson had 41 for 611. I think Reed can fit in that area somewhere and he may surprise and provide more.
I talked about our TE's in another post, but it won't take much for Musgrave and Kraft to at least match the production of Lewis and Tonyan. They combined for 59 catches, 536 yards and 4 TD's.
That all being said there will be lumps and there will be times when we just don't look good because of the inexperience. I just don't think we will have that big of a drop off. I would guess our win/loss range is going to be in the 6-11 to 11-6 range. Mostly likely somewhere in the middle.
DoubleJ
May 02, 2023 at 09:03 am
"Our WR's were a mess basically until Dallas when Watson went off. "
If you listen to Rodgers before the Dallas game he would say they needed to get Watson the ball more. Basically he would watch the tape and see that Watson was open but Rodgers didn't throw him the ball. That isn't surprising since Rodgers would give rookies a single chance to do something and if they failed he would shun them. For Watson that was dropping the first pass of the season on an assured 75 yard TD if he caught it. After that Rodgers almost never threw him the ball.
"The OL imo is going to be much improved. With Bakhtiari and Jenkins another year removed from acl injuries, they will be even better. Myers improved each game. Runyan having an offseason to prepare at RG and they will figure out the RT in camp. Our OL should be greatly improved."
That is the hope that another year from injury and additional time to get stronger will help the line. IMO this is a make or break season for Meyer. He was good at pass blocking but his run blocking was horrible.
"Now they won't Lazards production, but Watson and Doubs will increase theirs."
Lazard accounted for 60 receptions for 788 yards and 6TDs. That is pretty easy to spread between Watson and Doubs. I don't think Lazards receiving production will be missed as much as his blocking. Hopefully Doubs will be a better blocker this year than last and we already know that Watson can block quite well for a WR.
"Musgrave and Kraft to at least match the production of Lewis and Tonyan. They combined for 59 catches, 536 yards and 4 TD's."
I agree with that completely. Our TEs last year also didn't scare anyone. This year with how fast Musgrave and Kraft are could cause defenses to have to honor them being on the field.
Coldworld
May 02, 2023 at 10:28 am
On paper, this catching corps is both bigger and very much faster. Outside of Doubs/Watson, who really hardly played together, we fielded Cobb, Lazard and Watkins at WR almost exclusively. We had Tonyan or a blocker at TE.
That was glacial. It was hardly surprising that the coverage just graduated to the rookie. No team was frightened by Cobb or Lazard and we saw that with Ds being willing to go light in the deep and just let safetied clean up if one got open while blanketing Watson and Doubs. Do that this year, and I think it’s us who will laugh. A lot more threat to get open and a lot more after the catch. Now it’s just down to creative usage and execution, which may take a while to become consistent.
Personally, I’m looking forward to a bunch of Watson, Musgrave and Doubs with Kraft just heading down the other side of the field out if a 2 TE set, or Doubs and Reed/Toure crossing over the middle with Musgrave or Jones sitting under and Watson on a deep crosser pulling the safeties away. None of that type of thing was happening last year. We just lacked enough threat and variety.
TKWorldWide
May 02, 2023 at 08:55 am
Agree. More than W and L, I think we’re all looking for encouraging signs from Love (and many others.)
However, if he wants to just go off like Mahomes did in his first year starting, nobody will complain.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 12:39 pm
The 2008 squad did not have eight, 1st round picks on its defense. The '08 defense surrendered leads in four games.
See if this year's group shows up?
Coldworld
May 02, 2023 at 10:10 am
I think we feature Watson but hopefully we don’t see him hung out to dry as the only big target as often. One big benefit of the TEs and more elusive slots than Cobb was, is that we have alternatives to Watson standing 10 yards down field as the open big target able to get out there fast enough to be open. That guy took a pummeling.
jannesbjornson
May 02, 2023 at 12:32 pm
Feature all of them and spread the Risk onto the defenses.
dobber
May 02, 2023 at 02:28 pm
WHOAH NELLIE!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 09:58 am
Agree, but Musgrave has the physical tools and athleticism to be featured just as much as Watson. These two working in conjunction can be one of the best 1 - 2 punches in the league. Do you double Watson streaking down the sidelines, or do you double Musgrave streaking down the middle? Watson at 6'5" and Musgrave 6'6" both with speed......think about the defensive mismatches they will have. How many DB's & Safeties have this kind of size to defend? Now throw in a big body 6'5" Tucker Kraft who also is athletic with speed underneath and this offense has the potential to be extremely explosive.
I said the above without giving props to Romeo Doubs. He is being overlooked by most here because of Watson and some of the new draftees, but Doubs is likely to be our best receiver in 2023. Everyone....do not sleep on Doubs & keep an eye on him. This guy is one hell of a player who will ball out. He get's open sneakily with separation like Adam's did. Last year, between injuries and dropped passes it kept him from being in the conversation of the All Rookie team.
Handsback
May 02, 2023 at 08:34 am
TE is traditionally one of the hardest positions for a rookie to excell in. I hope that won’t be the case this year but see these TE draft picks really exploding next season.
I’m looking forward to seeing MLF run his offense how he intended verses letting AR run it.
RCPackerFan
May 02, 2023 at 08:46 am
As I have posted a few times above, I agree that TE is one of the hardest positions to come in as a rookie and play really well. But I don't think it will take much to match last years production for Lewis and Tonyan. Essentially they have to each average 15 yards per game and they will come close to the same amount of yards.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 10:07 am
It has always been said TE is one of the toughest positions to learn because of being both a receiver & a blocking TE. One of my questions though is with the luxury of having both Tucker & Musgrave who have two different skill sets, so why not take advantage of these skill sets where they do not have too much put on their plates right away. Without question ,Tucker is going to typically be the Y-TE with Musgrave often being the Z Slot along with Reed. Keep it simple and don't complicate things excessively right out of the gate. Bring them along slowly allowing them to exceed at 1 or 2 things as you gradually add more and more to their plates.
Coldworld
May 02, 2023 at 10:34 am
I agree, but I think their assistance in the passing game can come sooner. Musgrave is, in any case, more a big WR at this point.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
May 04, 2023 at 10:10 am
Agreed!
He played 36% of his time in college at the Z Slot position. I expect similarly in the NFL even with him occasionally outside in the X position at some point for mismatches.
HarryHodag
May 02, 2023 at 08:37 am
I noticed no one mentioned his blocking skills until near the end of the article. He apparently is a decent blocker. What all the draftniks think about is catching passes a tight end that can block is better than a pass catcher alone.
My main concern is whether that knee can hold up to 17 games against elite players. I hope it can.
Handsback
May 02, 2023 at 08:39 am
The one thing that I don’t understand is why MLF never used Lazard in A hybrid TE/WR position. If he did he needed to do it more often. I saw it as a WR that blocked like a TE but could slip out and catch those outlet passes. Similar to how KC uses Kelsey.
Bitternotsour
May 02, 2023 at 09:01 am
If Green Bay had re-signed Lazard, I always thought he'd be a tight end.
Rebelgb
May 02, 2023 at 08:47 am
If you watch Musgraves highlight reel, he goes over the middle A LOT. I agree that he will take time to develop, and that TE's normally take a few years to progress. However, with his speed, simply lining him up and asking him to fly deep across the middle to tie up defenses trying to press 2 on the outside against Love (something Aaron struggled with his whole career) will be a BIG help to this offense. Not a lot of skill or progress needed to simply run a basic route.
Taking away a defenses ability to double Watson is going to be a big bummer for opposing defenses that dont have a corner capable of covering Watson 1v1, and I dare say there arent a lot who can....
Musgrave may not put up big numbers in year 1, but he will get a lot of snaps on passing downs.
Bitternotsour
May 02, 2023 at 09:02 am
Love will throw the ball in the middle of the field. Rodgers basically would not.
DoubleJ
May 02, 2023 at 09:07 am
Musgrave going up the seam is going to be nice. There are very few LBs in the NFL that can keep up with him and most safeties are too short to guard him. That will open up the outside as well. You can have Musgrave run a clear out up the middle and have Watson come in behind on a post or 10/15 yard dig. All of a sudden Watson could have an near wide open field for some YAC and we know how a little bit of open space for him can turn into a TD.
greengold
May 02, 2023 at 09:13 am
We’re going to see a lot of explosive plays from this bunch & the LoveGun. A lot. We just added 3 WRs and Musgrave who are all adept at taking the top off any defense.
Love had the strongest arm in his draft class.
Should be a whole lotta fun to see play out. Great competition added to the Packers these last two drafts.
DoubleJ
May 02, 2023 at 09:42 am
Love would probably have been QB1 in this year's draft. At worst he was QB2 in this year's class.
HawkPacker
May 02, 2023 at 09:53 am
Not sure how you know this but if correct that is sweet news for the Pack.
Rebelgb
May 03, 2023 at 11:10 am
Only being a homer a little bit when i say: I would absolutely take Love over any of the 1st round QB's in this years draft. What a shit QB class. I could end up being completely wrong but somehow I doubt it.
BirdDogUni
May 02, 2023 at 11:26 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxxdId-9JPM
Video is every throw to Romeo Doubs. If Watson, Doubs, and Melton have a significant 2nd year jump with Toure and Reed as Rookie contributing even a little bit, our WRs Corps could be much better than people expect.
BirdDogUni
May 02, 2023 at 11:54 am
Add the http - youtube.com/watch?v=PtXwH4mUOr8
Every throw to Christian Watson. Rodgers missed Watson plenty of times last year. Should be interesting this year with Love, Watson, Doubs, Melton, Reed, Toure, Wicks, Musgrave, Kraft, Allen, Deguara...
BAMABADGER
May 02, 2023 at 07:37 pm
BD, thanks for the film on Watson. AR miss threw the ball to CW more times than I remembered. Many could have been for big gains.
CheesedDeadHead
May 02, 2023 at 02:05 pm
I get a bigger Ed McCaffrey vibe from watching Musgrave. That would be a great ceiling!
golfpacker1
May 06, 2023 at 09:06 am
An article on Dairyland Express talked about 4 players GB should move after June 1. Bahk, Preston Smith, AJ, and Campbell. Those trades probably cost us 4 wins but more young players get to show what they have and the salary cap is cleaner by 2025.