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Packers' 2015 draft class officially ruled as obsolete

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Packers' 2015 draft class officially ruled as obsolete

-- You can officially render the Green Bay Packers' 2015 draft class obsolete.

Not a single member of the eight-man class remains on the roster or in the team's future plans as of Saturday, while NFL Network's Mike Garafolo confirmed that the Jacksonville Jaguars are signing middle linebacker Jake Ryan.

Ryan was the Packers' fourth-round pick in 2015, playing in 43 games in three seasons before missing all of 2018 with a torn ACL he suffered in the early stages of training camp.

The other seven players, all either released or traded, never made a formidable impact at the professional level -- at least not enough to remain with the team for longer than three seasons with the exception of running back Ty Montgomery.

Montgomery was traded prior to the 2018 in-season deadline to the Baltimore Ravens in exchange for a 2019 seventh-round pick. He was never truly able to overcome injury while attempting to master playing the receiver position and eventually made a transition to running back in 2016.

However, after a case of insubordination -- a case that likely cost the Packers a victory against the Los Angeles Rams last season -- he was swapped to another franchise.

In fact, five of the eight players selected by the Packers in that 2015 draft didn't play in a single game for any team last season. Only defensive back Damarious Randall, defensive lineman Christian Ringo and Montgomery suited up for their respective teams in 2018.

Randall was traded to the Cleveland Browns last offseason for quarterback DeShone Kizer and Ringo, after being waived by the Packers at the start of the 2017 season, has spent time between three different teams.

Other members of the class include cornerback Quinten Rollins, quarterback Brett Hundley, fullback Aaron Ripkowski and tight end Kennard Backman. Every single player, with the exception of Hundley, was released by the team. 

2015 marked one of Ted Thompson's last drafts as the Packers' general manager before being shifted to his senior advisor position in 2018 to open up the spot for Brian Gutekunst, his successor.

It's also an indictment on the remarkable failure that may have paved the way to the Packers' shortcomings in each of the following seasons. They made the playoffs in the two years following that draft, however, were eliminated after failing to ever advance past the NFC Championship.

Essentially, the Packers blanked on an entire class of players; the equivalent of taking the year off. They've paid the price for it with back-to-back losing seasons.

As it stands, the Packers are presumably expecting a year-two jump from Oren Burks, their third-round pick from a year ago. He was primarily a special teams asset in his rookie season with 254 snaps under his belt, but could eventually become an important cover man for Mike Pettine.

__________________________

Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (175) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

James Martins's picture

Oren Burks is a bust. He lost snaps to Antonio Morrison... I hope we find an answer in this draft.

Bure9620's picture

Little early to evaluate a bust after a rookie season. Most rookies are not ready.

James Martins's picture

Most rookies are not ready. But most rookies show flashes. Blake Martinez was good? No, but he showed flashes and earned more snaps as his rookie season went on. Oren was a liability both at run defense and in coverage and had nearly zero snaps in the final games. When a guy is that bad that he can't even be a rotational player, there is something wrong. As much as he improves in the second or third year, he will never be the true scary linebacker this team needs. He will be average at best. I am tired of guys like Brad Jones, Sam Barrington, Carl Bradford and Joe Thomas. Other teams always exploiting them all game. Gute missed, simple like that. It is better to try to correct that as soon as possible than TT way, waiting for guys to develop, and waiting, and waiting... and wasting Aaron Rodgers years.

jannes bjornson's picture

Martinez played ILB his entire career at Stanford. Burks was a strong safety moved inside as a senior to more of Rover ILB. He is learning a new set of steps and learning the reads as the PRO Game is much faster. He needs to gain strength in the off season program. He is an intelligent guy a a team Captain at Vanderbilt. Tell me how many Games Ray Nitsche started a s a rookie, third round pick coming out of Illinois? This over-reacting results now mind set is not valid. If the guy is a true #1 pick then the dialogue may be different. Not many Roquan Smith's in these drafts.

krk's picture

unless they are really good, then they play right away

SterlingSharpe's picture

None of you, NONE, were clamoring for Orren Burks prior to the Draft. I didn't see a single Packer fan asking for him, and if they did and I missed it, they probably penciled him in rd 6.

Everyone was hoping he could become our speedy Bobby Wagner type in the middle.....

This appeared to be a reach immediately. Time will tell, like Josh Jones and Terrell Manning and Jeremy Thompson, a lot of big whiffs on defense. But that happens to everyone.

Thebearsstillsuck's picture

I'm not ready to cut him, but certainly don't have a whole lot of hope. He doesn't really seem to have a position, and our track record of conversion projects couldn't be a whole lot worse, especially considering the sample size. His college tape sucks, his combine was impressive. The fact that he played 18 defense snaps the last 8 weeks of the season on the 2018 Packers defense is a terrible sign

jannes bjornson's picture

He was rated as a three pick by Tony Pauline and that's where he was taken.

Coldworld's picture

It seems he was injured but that aside he was a rookie. Oddly enough rookies don’t generally make an impact in year one except maybe at RB. If they did, teams would be 70% rookies as they are cheap.

Moreover, Burkes, a former safety, was never expected to be on the field in Morrison/Ryan type downs: that’s why they rushed to replace Ryan when he was injured.

So no, he isn’t a bust at this point and no, the chances of an immediate upgrade through the draft are very low and no again that Ryan/Morrison types directly compete with a cover backer type.

James Martins's picture

"Burkes, a former safety, was never expected to be on the field in Morrison/Ryan type downs"
So, we spent a 3rd pick on guy that will start only in third downs? That is a huge reach. And why didn't he start on these downs he was expected to play later on the season? Even Kyler Fackrell was playing coverage in third downs. He may be a rookie, but a rookie that can't earn playing time in a injury decimated position? Pass.
" the chances of an immediate upgrade through the draft are very low"
I wouldn't could on Burks being starter next to Martinez on week 1 without any backup, neither will Gutekunst. Expect a cheap free agent or a late draft pick. Hopefully it will be a good one and we will have someone next to Martinez.
Keep your hopes alive regarding Burks, it is a good feeling.

Samson's picture

TT (and those who worship him) are also obsolete.
This is a new day with a new regime.

KenEllis's picture

Can't wait until Ted gets inducted into the Packer HOF and watch how the intrepid journalists who cover the Pack spin Ted's disastrous 2011-2017 run into something glorious.

Ryan was just the latest in a long line of putrid line inside linebackers that Ted favored. From the overpaid stalwart Hawk, to the overpaid loser Brad Jones, to DJ Smith, Nate Palmer, Jamari Lattimore, and others I've tried to eliminate from memory. Yuck.

Old School's picture

Who was our Director of Scouting when this was happening?

Skip greenBayless's picture

Wow, I had to look it up Old School. Once again, you hit it out of the park. No wonder why nobody has responded to you.

The answer is Brian Gutekunst!!

Good Lord we are in trouble with a capital T with this guy in charge of drafting. He was responsible for Ted's worst year. It was Gutey!!

Dash

albert999's picture

That’s really scary
Didn’t know that

Uncle Albert

Skip greenBayless's picture

You're darn right it's scary Uncle Albert. I didn't know it either until I googled the info after Old School put the simple question out there. Now as you can see the herd is out trying to downplay the fact Gutey was Director of Scouting during this time. They can't handle the truth even if it's right in their faces. It's unbelievable. These people all owe Ted an apology.

Dash

FLPackfan's picture

Ted still had final say and did a whole lot of scouting on his own. Nobody know how much of Gutes input Ted took, it could have been soley what he used to make decisions or he could have just blown him off. Based on how Gute is running the show I would say no telling.

dblbogey's picture

Stop making sense.

Old School's picture

Didn't Thompson promote Gute to that position? And we're supposed to believe that Thompson promoted him, then ignored him, and then Murphy promoted him again?

I think it's easier to believe that Gute has been very involved in our drafts and that overall they've been better than a lot of you are willing to admit, and as a result he was promoted.

Gort's picture

None of us were in the draft room run by TT, but many of us have had bad bosses that ignore good advice. We won't know if Gute can make good draft decisions for a couple years.

CAG123's picture

I’m pretty sure TT is in those rooms too it’s not like Gute is bringing him a list saying “Here draft these guys”! TT took more time rummaging through undrafted bin for starter talent and depth than the actual draft. Thompson doesn’t get a pass just because Gute was the talent scout he holds more accountability for his refusal to upgrade during FA and holding on to Dom Capers.

Skip greenBayless's picture

"I’m pretty sure TT is in those rooms too it’s not like Gute is bringing him a list saying “Here draft these guys”! "

Well from reading many of the people here making fun of Ted's health, Ted in his last year was basically in a vegetative state and was GM in name only. If that was true, maybe it was Brian Gutenkunst basically running the show and the draft that year sort of like Radar O'Reilly on Mash going up to Col. Henry Blake and having him sign forms that he didn't even read or know what they were.. Not saying it happened but if Ted was in as bad of shape mentally as many people here claim he was, maybe Gutey had more say in these 2015 picks than we know. So until we get a full medical report on TT I can only conclude that Brian Gutekunst aka Gutey was a little Fruity with those 2015 picks.

Dash

CAG123's picture

Wait... so until you get the FULL facts you’re going to go with the argument that benefits your point....? This is based of what people are saying here on a blog? Lol Come on man you gotta do better than that TT as the GM has the final say and there’s no getting around that he’s more responsible for the demise of the roster than Gute based on his position not hypotheticals and baseless theories.

Old School's picture

Yeah, the GM has the final say, but the Director of Scouting is the person most responsible for setting the board. Who the hell put Gute in charge of scouting?

jannes bjornson's picture

Ted's last draft was 2017.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Yes it was but as many many people claim that Ted was sick the past couple years. Gutey was director of college scouting during that time. Gutey quite possibly could have been calling the shots behind the scenes for 3 to 4 years or more as to who to draft more than Ted. We simply don't know and probably never will. It would tend to explain the difference in hits in the draft if Ted was not fully in charge and Gutey was. Either way, Gutey was at least 25 to 50% responsible for those past couple drafts as he was the director of college scouting. That part we cannot question.

Dash

CAG123's picture

So if you simply don’t know the whole story how can you assume that Gute was 25-50% responsible? That logic makes absolutely no sense. You want to blame Gute for something that you simply don’t know the full story on. TT was the GM and was running that show he gets the blame it’s that simple.

FLPackfan's picture

I think saying they just pulled names out of a hat has as much weight as saying Gute was running the show. Hell I'd lean toward MM was making the picks....nah pulling names from a hat makes more sense.

The TKstinator's picture

Illogical logic is a huge rabbit hole to go down into.

LarryPennell's picture

Actually he wasn’t, 2015 was Gutes last year in that role. I’m curious to see who Dash will blame next for Ted’s failures.

Old School's picture

Capers would have been McCarthy 's responsibility. The Director of Scouting has a primary role in setting up the draft board and advising the GM.

CAG123's picture

Right but they definitely work together and bounce ideas off of each other and the GM does his homework as well. The GM has the final say I don’t know why y’all want to pass the buck to Gute so badly as if TT didn’t let pro bowl talent walk, didn’t use FA to upgrade the roster, and was constantly looking for starters in the UDFA pool. No matter how you slice it he’s no less than 80% responsible.

jannes bjornson's picture

As does the Director of Pro personnel and the CAP manager.

Coldworld's picture

Scouting doesn’t mean selection. Moreover during that time most of the current Browns front office were senior to Gute plus Reggie McKenzie. Schneider was gone I think.

Those that left departed from TT’s approach. Reggie seemed to be building a decent base before being pushed aside and then out and the Browns have gone a much more similar direction to Gute who has been very un TT like thus far.

What does that suggest? To me it suggests these individuals were not able to do what they would have chosen to do in GB.

In the latter part of 11 to 18 it has been suggested that Russ Ball was being groomed for, and was then delegated power to make, personnel decisions. This eventually led to a rumored conflict with MM and the scouting staff verses TT Ball that led to Murphy stepping in. To me all the signs are that the wrong people were calling the shots later in TTs reign.

Until we get to the bottom of that it could yet reoccur, but the best if simplistic implication you make here based upon a title seems completely contrary to the information available if one steps back and looks at the big picture.

Old School's picture

Ted's disastrous run from 2011-2017 included 6 straight playoff appearances.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Absolutely horrible record Old School. Only 6 straight. I can't believe Ted lasted as long as he did. Thank God we are on the right path finally with Gutey. Only two straight losing seasons with Gute at or near the top of the decision making process. Arrow finally pointing.. well at least it's pointing. I don't know where or which direction but it's pointing. Wait.... at least he's not Ted!!

Dash

Rak47's picture

"Ted's disastrous run from 2011-2017 included 6 straight playoff appearances."
And the same amount of SB's as Cleveland and Jacksonville even though GB had Aaron Rodgers in his prime and those teams had McCown and Bortles.

SterlingSharpe's picture

That's right. The team made the playoffs those years due to the draft hits from 2009 & older (Clay, Jordy, Rodgers, Jennings, etc.).

2011 it started to go way downhill. Although Bakhtiari & Davante are all-world picks. But no difference-makers in Rd 1 since 2010 with Bulaga.

Old School's picture

Yes, Daniels didn't help. Neither did Bakhtiari or Lynsley. Neither did Martinez or Ryan or Dix. Neither did Davante Adams.

Thompson wasn't replaced because of poor performance; he was replaced because of declining mental acuity. I've seen it happen to older people, and it'll happen to a bunch of y'all, too.

Skip greenBayless's picture

"Thompson wasn't replaced because of poor performance; he was replaced because of declining mental acuity. I've seen it happen to older people, and it'll happen to a bunch of y'all, too."

Thank you for that statement Old School. It means a lot to me to hear someone respecting a legend. I hate seeing people bash the hell out of this great man who dedicated his second half of his life to the Green Bay Packers only to get setback by a health problem. The amount of disrespect here is beyond belief.

Dash

Coldworld's picture

It seems physical condition. That impacts stamina, attention to detail and inevitably leads to delegation. The Packers have admitted who benefited from that delegation and we have all seen the results. Yet very few seem to put those two together with the fact that Ball was brought into personnel and was TTs preferred successor. That means he was delegated a lot of power folks. TT didn’t, as suggested, become impaired mentally, he just couldn’t do everything. As such he delegated many of the decisions out of necessity. That’s how these situations play out (from experience).

Murphy trusted Ted (too much-a President must scrutinize directly not blindly trust) but Ted trusted Ball and believed he could transfer from finance to player and roster management. People in declining health are prone to bad decisions on whom to rely on.

Therefore I respectfully believe that there is enough evidence and admissions out there for the decline in both TTs success and the state of the team of people would step back and look. It is a great shame because TT did do excellent things before his health impacted.

Old School's picture

And the same amount of SBs as New Orleans and Pittsburgh had with HOF QBs. Your point?

4thand10's picture

@rak47....Cleveland and Jax were drafting top spots for YEARs in a row though to be fair.

jannes bjornson's picture

What a thrill watching those teams get ass kicked On their HOME field, get whapped in SF and threaded in Atlanta. A beautiful Hail Mary followed a ridiculously blown Coverage by the star of that draft #one pick, Da Marious.

jannes bjornson's picture

Ask the Patriots if they are satified with getting into the playoffs. They have a singular purpose, Win the Big Game. They don't settle for one and done. They are driven to suceed.

Demon's picture

You dont have to wait until Ted gets into the Packers HOF. Dash and Old School ard happy to sing the praises of the "Polar Bear" every day.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Why would we not sing his praises. Why wouldn't anybody with a brain sing his praises. It was Gutey that lead to the downfall of this team not Ted Thompson. Now Gutey is in charge? and Murphy put him there. I can see now why John T. Kirk was/is such a staunch NeverMurpher. I want to thank Old School for pointing out just how much of a negative impact Gutey has had on this team for the past couple seasons as the head Director of college scouting. This is quite the bombshell!! Wow!!

Dash

CAG123's picture

GMs scout talent as well they’re in those rooms too he wasn’t taking direct orders from Gute to draft those guys. TT spent so much time looking for gold in the undrafted ranks as well hoping to strike on another Williams or Shields add to his refusal to use FA to upgrade the roster and he’s 80% responsible for the demise of this roster.

Coldworld's picture

One can praise early TT with justification. Later TT, as I have pointed out, was increasingly TT in name not fact.

Rak47's picture

It's unfathomable to me that the man was losing his mental acuity and no one said or did anything for so long a period of time. I remember watching a couple of the last interviews TT did at the podium and thinking, this guy is not all there. He just had this blank empty look in his eyes. I guess in retrospect I know why now for sure.

Lare's picture

I'm sure Spike likes having Chester around.

Old School's picture

Calling people names doesn't make your argument any stronger or more persuasive, WT.

If our drafting was bad, isn't Gute partly responsible? He was the Director of Scouting.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Yeah, Lare has a very bad habit of personally insulting and attacking people that defeat him. He was warned just last night by Jersey Al but apparently he thinks the rules don't apply to him.

He won't have a legit answer Old School because there's only the truth. Gute should definitely be thrown in for the downfall of the 2015 draft without question. I feel bad for Ted. He relied on Gutey's advice 100% and Ted was the guy that got shit on while Gutey gets a promotion. Unbelievable. Thanks again for pointing this out Old School.

Dash

Rak47's picture

How the hell is Gute responsible? TT made the draft picks and your ludicrous assumptions that it was Gutekunst making the picks is completely ridiculous and baseless. Yet you want to tell him his comment aren't helping his argument? Lmao, I guess it couldn't possibly be your man crush Teddy wiping his rear with entire draft classes so it had to be Gutekunst, even though Wolf and Highsmith and even McKenzie were there during that period [2011-17] as silent observers [at least you'd have us believe] with no say at all as the mad scientist Gutekunst pulled the strings from behind the curtains and his puppet Teddy T danced a jig. You and Dash need to stop with the ridiculousness. You're embarrassing yourself.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Gute got his promotion by showing Murphy his draft choices...

Old School's picture

So what is the Director of Scouting responsible for?

Jonathan Spader's picture

Scouting and giving the GM recommendations on who to draft. Sort of like employees making recommendations to an owner who then does whatever they want.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Jake Ryan was not a stellar pick. He wasn't bad for a fourth round pick.

Lare's picture

"So what is the Director of Scouting responsible for?'

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he's responsible for running the Scouting Department. The GM is the one who makes the final decisions on draft selections.

Old School's picture

And it's your opinion that Thompson ignored the guy that he made his Director of Scouting? Any evidence to support that?

LarryPennell's picture

Kind of like the reports that surfaced that Thompson ignored the advice from his staff to draft T.J. Watt? Then yes, I’m on board with that opinion.

jannes bjornson's picture

He supervises all the College Field Scouts and takes a territory for himself. He compiles the lists of players tape, strengths and weaknesses, where they project. They distill the info and work out the big board with the GM.
All final calls on the draft are made by the GM.

Coldworld's picture

How many others were above him? Your linkage if a title absent understanding of the structure is as foolish as those who think TT never helped the Packers.

The TKstinator's picture

George Cumby?
Johnny Holland?
Nick Barnett?
Desmond Bishop?

jannes bjornson's picture

Two HOF QBs under Ted's watch and One Lombardi. THese QBs needed playmakers. Gutekunst will help Rodgers. That will be his Legacy.

The TKstinator's picture

Never made a formidable impact.
Not even a threemidable impact, says I.

Coach JV's picture

Hehehe... good one!

Jonathan Spader's picture

2015 was a bad draft year period and TT's worst as a GM.

jannes bjornson's picture

Review the 2015 draft and witness the players he did not select in each round as he reached for guys that made zero sense. Trey Flowers anyone? DeMarcus Lawrence,....etc.

jannes bjornson's picture

2014 draft sorry. Yeah, 2015 was not a gangbuster.

jannes bjornson's picture

No, the 2015 draft was a fiasco also. The brain gets locked into that negative infinity and you look for hope in the black Hole.
Da Marious probably could of been moved down for a high second but taking Rollins over Frank Clark, Havenstein would have move to guard or covered for bulaga's injuries on and on. Ted should have packed it in after 2014, but Murphy gave him the extension post Seattle meltdown and he in turn extended his Field General Mccarthy. Read em and weep.

cheesehead1's picture

Oren Burks was not impressive last season. Hopefully, he can make a big jump in year 2. Kevin King is another example, needs to have a great off season and stay healthy. Would like to see us draft Devin White.

Ryan B Dub's picture

Happy to see Jake Ryan slowly run away in to the sunset.

The TKstinator's picture

Obsolete type of player.

Thebearsstillsuck's picture

I agree. Especially when Martinez is going to play the number of snaps that he is. You can get by with one of those types of players, but certainly not 2.

The TKstinator's picture

Brian Noble: Johnny Holland
Stuff the run: run and hit

4thand10's picture

I’ve got my picture taken with Brian Williams....probably one of the best underrated LBs in GB history in my book.

jannes bjornson's picture

Johnny Holland could play cover. He was a solid LB. Noble just a stack guy.

The TKstinator's picture

Same page.

Coldworld's picture

Not really so. Witness Morrisson. Still needed but now a role playing not every down player type.

packerbackerjim's picture

Along With John Anderson and Tim Harris, the LB core was quite formidable.

jannes bjornson's picture

Orchestrated by the Doctor of Defense, Hank Bullough. He was the true innovator of the 3-4 defense. Tony Bennett at the elephant.

Art's picture

I suspect Ted's failing health contributed to his decline as a GM and decision making so I hesitate to bad mouth him. I enjoyed the years of success we had under his leadership and am thankful for his contributions. Should he have asked for or been approached earlier to be relieved of the GM position perhaps but it is what it is. I do respect loyalty and it works both ways. Lets not focus on the past but look forward to an optimistic future.

Guam's picture

Thank you Art for a very appropriate perspective. TT did very well early in his GM career and created a championship team. That success should always be acknowledged and celebrated.

Unfortunately that success dwindled to losing seasons. I think part of the reason was TT lost Schneider, Dorsey and McKenzie from his organization. I suspect some of his later drafts were the result of losing major front office talent. However it was also his responsibility to replace that talent.

All in the past now however and I like your viewpoint Art - look forward to a brighter future.

Skip greenBayless's picture

This.

Dash

FLPackfan's picture

I wonder if Dorsey looked too much like a yes man or they thought he would follow too closely in Ted's outlook on FA's. Maybe they like how Gute pushed back on some of the picks that were made against what he thought were poor choices. We weren't there and I have no idea what happened except that I like the direction the team is starting to head. Active in FA and addressing areas of need with ascending young players and positioned well for the draft to get BPA's.

jannes bjornson's picture

WTF? Dorsey is No yes man. He helped on the Matthews pick. Look what he's doing in Cleveland. If he was a yes-man he would not have been given the boot in K.C. He is his own man.

Coldworld's picture

Murphy should have stepped in to encourage earlier. That is part of what a president is for. It’s hard for an individual in ailing health, particularly one so completely consumed by football and the role to be the one to make that call.

ShooterMcGee's picture

I am not sure who to blame. 1 thing is certain is that the 2015 draft was a disaster and set the franchise back especially for a team that was strictly draft and develop. We could have taken Landon Collins instead of Randall, Frank Clark instead of Rollins, Trey Flowers instead of Montgomery etc... Hindsight is 20/20 but jeesh that was a bad draft!

What we need this year is a Colts or Saints type of class from the last 2 years. Then we'll be rockin.

Skip greenBayless's picture

"I am not sure who to blame"

I think it' s pretty clear by now after the bombshell by Old School on who we can blame. We can blame Gutey for his poor job as Director of Scouting and Ted Thompson for not removing himself after getting sick and the Packers for covering it up until it was so obvious they couldn't hide Ted being sick anymore. Actually it's hard to blame a man who got sick but still wanted to work so Gute failed with the past couple drafts telling Ted who he recommended to pick as Director of Scouting.

So bottom line: Most are blaming the wrong person for the downfall of the Packers the past couple seasons. It was more Gute and the Packers front office more than Ted. Again, I can see more and more why Kirk threw his hands up in disgust and left for Cleveland along with Dorsey, Highsmith, Campen and Wolf. The Packers pinned their failures on a very sick man who they know won't say a peep about what really happened and promoted the guy most responsible for our recent failures. Unbelievable.

Dash

LarryPennell's picture

Why wouldn’t Gute then get credit for all the great players drafted from 2012-2014 since he held that position during those drafts as well?

porupack's picture

Dash continuing this nonsense speculation with no evidence. Sure, every member of the staff has various levels of responsibility of that bad draft.

But then you hold the chief responsible if the team doesn't produce. Simple. Obviously, those who know all the details agreed Gutekunst had the right combination of experience, and/or ability to learn from past mistakes, sufficient to put the team in his hands. The way its usually done is to then to give a chance to remake the team, and see what results in 2-5 years.

Do we have to listen to Jr. high smudge while we debate the results? How about debate results of actual players as they get into their 2nd and 3rd year, and we then know what Gutekunst has done? If results are less than acceptable, we would/should hold Gute responsible, not speculate on which of his staff made him fail.

All pretty simple unless you're looking for conspiracies and drama.

Coldworld's picture

No Dash, I think that and your use of a title contrary to the hierarchical reality or subsequent actions is particularly unhelpful.

You continue to look in the wrong place.

sam1's picture

You never know when the school of hard knocks will come, seems 2015 started it for the Packers!

jannes bjornson's picture

2014.

Jonathan Spader's picture

In 2014 the Packers had 12 wins and 4 losses while also adding a fourth consecutive NFC North division title. The club went undefeated at home for the first time since 2011. They also led the league in scoring, with 486 points, the second-most in franchise history. It marked the first time since the 2009 season that the team had a 4,000-yard passer, two 1,000-yard receivers, and a 1,000-yard rusher. They won the divisional round playoff game against the Cowboys, but then lost the conference championship game against the Seattle Seahawks in one of the biggest collapses in NFL playoff history. Quarterback Aaron Rodgers was named the league's Most Valuable Player.

jannes bjornson's picture

Referring to the 2014 draft. That was the discussion. Post Debacle by the Space Needle. No SB 4 You with a scrub on the roster that should have been playing in the Canadian League, not the NFL, blowing the clinching moment. His #1 pick from 2006 was ineffective at that point in his career along with Brad (freelance) Jones and blew the coverage on the fake punt that lead to the decisive TD.....on and on....His coach...his guys.

Coldworld's picture

The decline started before it began to be obvious on the field. Fly wheel effect.

Buschmen's picture

Thompson was an successful GM early on, but his later drafts and unwillingness to venture to much into free agency has left the roster with quite a few holes to fill.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Scouts, Director of Scouting, McCarthy, they all had input for draft selections. However, in the end TT was ultimately responsible and therefore accountable for making the final decisions. Plain and simple he did a bad job in 2015 and several other years.

Good try pinning those bad drafts on Gutey. However, Gutey is now ultimately responsible for the outcome of all draft selections. Somehow I believe time will show he will do a better job than TT.

stockholder's picture

I don't pin it on Gute either. TT made the selections of Randall, Rollins, and others. Because he didn't like FA. They were GM Moves. Capers was in charge of the defense. And MM left it to them. And that was MMs biggest mistake. Capers pointed, and TT listened to Capers. MM was vocal on hating his players leaving. Gute needs to listen to his scouts. If it's on the web. It's not a mistake. Only hear say can be wrong.

jannes bjornson's picture

Mccarthy was an OC who got lucky with a red hot QB, a play making defense run by DOM that propelled the 2010 SB win. Without Dom there would NO Lombardi number four. Eric Walden changing the final game at Lambeau with his sacks as an ineffective offense struggled againt Lovie.
Tramon's difference making Picks in Atlanta and the redzone leap and Pick vs Philly. Bj Raji, Nick Collins, Bishop and Matthews. Woodson's deflection in the late second quarter stopping a Rottenberger TD. Cracked his collarbone . Bush makes a key pick. That SB run was more Dom's D creating turnovers than anything else. Defense wins championships.

Coldworld's picture

There were a lot of people involved in the FO, most have now gone. I agree that the these folk had input but that doesn’t mean that was listened to or followed. Where I disagree is that it is clear that later on the person deciding whether to listen had largely ceased to be TT and was by all accounts Ball.

4thand1's picture

Lets judge 2018 and this years draft. Gute is in charge.

Skip greenBayless's picture

We have judged last year draft. The result? One hit in Alexander and nothing else. Also included in this is all his failures in free agency last year No hits!!

So if we base last year on years past, I would say it looks about like from 2015 forward. This coincidently is also about the time Ted got "ill" according to many people. Was Gute, who was DIRECTOR OF SCOUTING during the start of this downfall, recommending bad picks to Ted? I think as more and more evidence mounts, the answer is a big hell yeah!!

John T. Kirk, if you are reading this and have anymore important information to add, please make another rare appearance and come back. The Packers fans deserve to know the truth.

Thank you,

Dash

Thebearsstillsuck's picture

One hit, an extra 1st round pick this year and probably a decent receiver out of ESB and MVS. Not the home run some people pretend it is, but a goddam gold mine compared to the last 5 TT drafts. I hated the Graham signing from the first second, kinda liked Wilkerson, hated the fact that he was ok with Brice being a projected starter. Really, really glad Perry, Cobb, Brice are gone, wish Graham had joined them. I like the start of FA so far, and thinks this looks absolutely nothing like 2015 - 2018

jannes bjornson's picture

Let's see who Contributed as rookies vs riding rthe pine: Alexander a future star on the perimeter, Jackson learning on the go and his alert pickup of the blocked punt for a TD vs the queens, Lancaster as an UDFA find plugging as a NT, Hitting on TWO WRs in the fifthand sixth rd that made plays, Rookie punter and long snapper filling spots. This season some of this gang should put down the Jug and watch the Game as it unfolds week to week. Its not fantasy league crap.

LarryPennell's picture

2015 was Gutes last year holding the position of Director of College Scouting, blaming him for anything past that makes absolutely no sense.

Old School's picture

What did he do in 2016 and 2017?

Lare's picture

He was Director of Player Personnel. And assuming you're going to ask what the Director of Player Personnel does, he oversees all areas of talent evaluation, both college and professional, and makes recommendations to the GM.

LarryPennell's picture

Dash, you claim one hit in Alexander and nothing else then completely change your opinion and state how happy you are with the receivers drafted last year, especially Moore. What made you change your mind overnight?

porupack's picture

Dash,
More nonsense. Judge results after one season? Its clear you like to find scapegoat for easy targets for blame, and you lose logic excusing TT and going after Gutekunst. What is your point to continue trashing the current GM, with speculation of what level of culpability for decisions TT made?

Whether TT was ill or not, the results of his leadership were clearly failing, so he was replaced. Yes, about 4 years too late.

We can begin more sensible critique on Gute as this season progresses, and things become more convincing as next season progresses. Until then, you are just babbling.

Coldworld's picture

Too early to judge last year’s draft by far. Two years into Rodgers tenure he was being alleged by some to be an injury plagued waste of a pick. Three years in Collins was a bust.

If you are going to write off EQ, MVS and co at this point there is little rational left in you.

The TKstinator's picture

How long does a smart person wait to judge a draft?

Packer Fan's picture

The 2015 draft is indicative of the lack of talent on the roster. Same thing happened at the end of Sherman's run. Gute is rebuilding the whole team. And the free agency signings is part of the deal. Keep at it!

jannes bjornson's picture

Please refrain from mentioning the S-word, thank you.

stockholder's picture

In Ted we Trust! He took Jake Ryan. Could have had Kendricks! Everyone wanted Kendricks! Nobody could believe he reached for Randall. But T. Williams left. He wouldn't sign him or make him a safety in 2014. But look who he could of had in the 2nd round of 2015.Pro after Pro. Check it OUT! He took Rollins and Clark was there. It was a GM move and not a scout move. Just blunder after blunder in 2015. Now go back to 2014. We had to have Dix because Williams didn't move to safety. We had to have Adams because he wouldn't sign James Jones. It took Adams a long time. TT refused to sign his own. And that changed later after the blunders. But the damage was done. In Ted we trusted. I didn't trust Ted since 2014. Even ESPN radio made fun of his picks. I don't mind Adams making me look bad. But the point was TT wrecked this club. He failed. As we see the rebuild, and players leave. Lets not lose the site of whats best for this club. The defensive picks were poor. But Defense is needed to win championships. Avoiding the best defensive players was TTs mistake. Hopefully it won't be Gute's.

Rak47's picture

Double Post!

Rak47's picture

I don't often agree with you stockholder but I'm with you 100% on this one. I was with TT until 2014 when I fell of the bandwagon. He totally dragged this team through the dirt his last 4 years as GM.

D Ernie's picture

I always thought he looked like a guy who couldnt find his car in a lot with one car in it. He was a joke but that dam lucky whim pick of rodgers gave him immotality. The guy is a ditz.

jannes bjornson's picture

He must be credited for the Adams selection. It was Sam Seale's scouting
but Ted kept the talent coming for the passing game, then it stopped.

stockholder's picture

I wouldn't. Give credit to Rodgers. The Guru's of the draft said he needed to go to GB and attach himself to Rodgers after the selection. Much was made of his 40 time. I would have chosen Latimer. But his foot was his problem like Perry. We needed a TE. I believe TT wanted to trade up for one. The TEs were very strong that year.He got blocked out. The interesting part of the 2014 was who was selected after Dix. We needed a de badly. And people loved the LBs. Failure to take the right defensive people was a mistake. Reaching for Thornton was ridicules.

Since '61's picture

I think that the record is pretty clear that TTs draft classes declined from 2011 on. He did an excellent job prior to 2011 and the result was a Lombardi trophy in 2010.

In fairness to TT we need to remember that from 2011 to 2017 the lowest pick that he had in the first round was the 20th pick in 2014 when he selected HHCD which has proven to be a poor 1st round selection.

Not that I am giving TT a pass but when you are usually drafting between 24th and 30th every round you become a victim of your own success. The fact that nothing is left from our 2015 class is a sad commentary on TT and his staff. TTs reputation was built on his alleged scouting expertise and it’s pretty clear that his expertise deserted him with each draft after 2010. He did select Bak, Daniels, Clark, Martinez, Lindsey, Aaron Jones, Davante Adams, and Cobb as well. But his misses exceed his hits by a considerable margin.

Bottom line we have moved on from TT and the post-mortem’s are over and done with. Give Gute a chance and let’s see what he and MLF can deliver. Go Pack Go! Thanks, Since ‘61

Lare's picture

Personally, I think both Thompson and McCarthy got lulled into a false sense of their own abilities due to the success of the team with Rodgers as quarterback.

When Rodgers got injured the last couple of years, it became obvious just how far the team had fallen due to a lack of talent and inferior coaching/schemes.

But as memories fade, their sins will be forgiven and they’ll both be remembered for their contributions to the organization.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

As usual Lare...great perspective and post!

D Ernie's picture

Ya but Ted never offered a slew of picks to move up and never got free agents worth a shit. He sat back to save the bucks.

Coach JV's picture

And the one year he DID move up in the draft, he got us a 2nd first round pick and picked up CMIII after BJ Raji... and the one time he DID bring in good FA's we got Picket and Woodson.

You think Teddy would have used THAT as his model, not this other shit.

Qoojo's picture

I think MM has a part in this due to keeping Capers too long. Every year TT was taking defense heavily to fix a bad coaching situation. TT and Coaches failed at recognizing talent too.

Slim11's picture

...and Tom Clements.
...and Shawn Slocum.
...and Ron Zook.

jannes bjornson's picture

Murphy kept Thompson and Mccarthy too long. John Fox did not last very long after his SB fiasco. Instead, Murphy extended Ted and gave him the greenlight to stay in place as long as he wanted. Ted extended Mccarthy twice after his intial contract. The second extension being revealed three months after the signing. After the Fans heard the reports from the Stockholders Meeting and Packertown was ready for the ribbon cutter.
All three needed to go sooner.

croatpackfan's picture

Since, Packers had solid, if not championship team in 2014. I do not know why everybody forgetting that season. Seattle debacle? Sure, but it was not because of the team quality!

As far as I understood how Packers front office is organized it looks like team build draft boards, not one man. Only not very bright person may believe that one person can make all decisions in draft by itself. GM pick his team and work with the team together on every aspect of draft. He is paid to be responsible and because of that he has last word.

But, I agree completely with you about turning to the future. We should left past behind. It is too early to make any final conclusions regarding first Brian Gutekunst draft class. We should be patient and time will tell us all.

Stay well, as you are very often voice of reason here...

Since '61's picture

Croat - I appreciate your excellent feedback. Always good to hear from you. Best wishes and you also be well.
Thanks, Since ‘61

BoCallahan's picture

This article and the comments have really helped me to put the Packer decline into perspective. We would be in a different position if TT has used FA as Gute has done this year.
Come on Gute, finish this draft strong!

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

FA could have helped, but teams need to draft better than TT did. No team can repeat free agent binges too often.

4thand10's picture

Unless your the redskins....but it never helps them anyway lol

jannes bjornson's picture

Remember the Talent drain from the draft room contemporaneous with Schneider going to Paul Allen, then Dorsey to Andy Reid, Reggie McKenzie moving to the man with bad hair. That's a big slice from the Wolf clan.
These were aggressive guys that helped Ted from Day One. Result a SB win. Thes guys went back to the Renaissance from 1992.

Coldworld's picture

I think we would be i. A different position had TT stayed healthy or Murphy acted when the scale of delegation became apparent. Either way, TTs legacy would have benefited.

SterlingSharpe's picture

I like Silver's take!!

youtu.be/jahlInEp3hc?t=224

Qoojo's picture

Only one thing to say, "Ouch!"

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

2007 TT drafted Justin Harrell at 16. Passed on Greg Olsen who went at 30 enough said.

jannes bjornson's picture

It was well documented Harrell was damaged goods. He was exceptional as a sophmore and Junior then wrecked his back. He ate himself out of the recovery process and showed little determination to regain a place on the field. Terrible pick with many Fans considering moving from Brandy to White Lightening to kill the pain of that decision.

D Ernie's picture

I recall reading that Ted had a West coast scout who would evaluate the Pac 12 schools and pass names on to Ted. Obviously ted listened. How many guys from that power house ucla and USC did Ted pick. Most were losers, thus Gutt my have not had the hand people think. Hundley, Perry, montgomery, plus some smallish rb who got his bell rung in pre season and i dont he he played again. Terrible scouting

CAG123's picture

I think you’re referring to Jonathan Franklin who definitely could have been a great 1-2 combo with Lacy he was 5’10 205 pounds so not too small the guy ran a 4.49 and finished his last season at UCLA with 1700 rush yards and 13 TDs. He actually suffered a neck injury similar to Nick Collins and was forced to retire or risk paralysis.

jannes bjornson's picture

Perry dominated at USC as a 4-3 Defensive End. The projecting the sq peg to round hole routine along with Mike Neal, Datone Jones( why was he picked?). The failure to move up in drafts to snag Kendricks or Mosley hurt the middle of the defense and it is still a weakness. Martinez at best a two down guy. etc etc.

The TKstinator's picture

Shouldn’t it be more like “Ho Lee Crap”?

croatpackfan's picture

No, there is hole full of crap -HoLeCrap

packergal's picture

HoLeCrap...you are correct.

The name of that West Coast Scout was Sam Seale.
Out of his 15+ selections over the years, I believe 5 worked out but many were JAGs.
Sam now has a new position under Gute's Leadership:
Sam Seale,National Scout

Now before you go crazy, Ron Wolf hired Seale and mentioned in press interviews that Sam was a great hire.

nostradanus's picture

Expensive lesson now fixed when some excellent free agents

That is all...

Oz40's picture

Everybody needs to take a chill pill. Sit back and enjoy the ride and see what happens

Skip greenBayless's picture

But it's the off season. Isn't this fun deciding who to blame? The good news is we finally found out who the culprit of the past couple years really was. It wasn't Ted, it was actually Gutey. Fans heads are exploding everywhere. They never imagined it in a million years. Understandable to be honest. It took a very smart high school football coach in the name of Old School to solve the puzzle and do the job a journalist here should have been doing.

Dash

LarryPennell's picture

Dash, you should try doing some research and find out for yourself who held the position of Director of College Scouting the final two years of the Thompson regime. Spoiler alert, it wasn’t Brian Gutekunst.

Coldworld's picture

He could also look at the FO .org chart and stop forgetting all the people more senior to Gute.

4zone's picture

Letting Ryan go was a mistake. Now ILB is a position of need, not a position of upgrade opportunity.

4thand10's picture

I’m not so sure, maybe Clay goes inside, takes a discount and retires as a Packer? wishful thinking, but who knows

jannes bjornson's picture

Counterpoint: Drafting Ryan was a mistake.

pooch's picture

Draft D White

Coldworld's picture

Agree in principle, but the devil is in how much he is getting now. Makes me wonder what he was offered by us and his new team. There is a point that I wouldn’t pay to kept him because he will only play about a third of downs and was largely replaced by Morrison at low cost last year.

TheKanataThrilla's picture

I think the problem with the 2015 draft was people were saying WTF while the draft was happening. I remember discussing the picks on a Packers fan chat and the fans were absolutely stunned with the first 2 selections.

Many pundits and fans were thinking Erick Kendricks and we ended up drafting a safety to play CB and a converted basketball player in the second round. Kendricks turned out to be a great pick for our rivals and we ended up with a guy playing out of position that had issues in the locker room.

Looking through the draft there were not many great players that year. Unfortunately, you can be sure when the fans and draftniks draft better players than the ones the GM picked you are gonna hear about it.

I often think It is the same reason why everyone is so hard on Kevin King. The fan base wanted Watt. If the fan base thinks they draft better than the GM we have a problem.

With Ted what bothered me was all the guys he drafted to play out of position in the first rounds. Perry, Jones, Randall & Rollins. You can't get cute with the top picks and that is what some of them felt like. That fact that Randall is playing decent as a safety is just mind blowing considering how we badly we need safety help.

4thand10's picture

I scratched my head on the Richard Rodgers pick that one year...I was like WTF? Who?

Mojo's picture

... and what about Khryi Thornton. Way overdrafted. I remember staying up to see who Ted would take with our third rounders. Ended up being Thornton and R Rodgers. Can't tell you how disappointed I was. Yeesh.

jannes bjornson's picture

The bonus three pick that was wasted on this fraud was mind-bending. He had a bust grade by pauline and others. I too remeber that day on the blogs. It was clear as driven snow that Ted had to go. Look it up in the archives. JS online.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

TheKanata,
Awesome post! Awesome!

Coldworld's picture

I have wondered to what extent the locker room aspect stemmed from how we were using him. Frustration can cause friction so easily.

I also wonder to what extent the coaches were being given players of typed they wanted or simply being told to make these players work coach. There was arumor that the coaching staff were fed up at not being given the tools they needed at the time Murphy stepped in.

Regardless of who was right, that kind of disconnect is a recipe for general disaster not just having to play players out of position.

Lare's picture

I lost all faith in TT when he made the Justin Harrell selection.

Coach JV's picture

Word... and then kept him for 4 years when he never once saw the field in the first 3 yr plus...

Gort's picture

NFL Network has bunches of "Top 10" shows. Don't recall a "Top 10 Worst Draft Classes", but the Packer's 2015 class should definitely be on that list.

4thand10's picture

I am way excited about all the free agent signings...every one. I’m excited about the draft ...there just seems to be something in the air this year.

Jonathan Spader's picture

It's called change and it's refreshing.

Coldworld's picture

So true. If one thing is clear, change and fresh thinking were terribly overdue throughout the organization.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

The buck stopped with Thompson. All those years.

In the draft, he gets the credit for brilliant moves like taking Rodgers, Collins, Bakhtiari, Adams, and the brilliant moves up/down and picks of Jennings & Clay.

He also has to get the blame for the many whiffs since Davante was taken.

And he surely gets the blame for thinking his drafting was so much better than everyone else that he could just ignore free agency as a tool of filling holes & adding talent.

Remember even in 2013, when. Rodgers first broke his collar bone, the "team" was atrocious. Google the Thanksgiving game in Detroit that year.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Eddie,
Was selecting Rodgers that late in round 1 really that brilliant? Yes, that will be TT's defining moment but was it really brilliant? Seems to me a no brainer when a top talent falls that far down to you, particularly if you are drafting BPA.

TT was a very mediocre drafter and why he desired dropping back picking up extra selections. Once all his talented draft scouts moved on he was exposed and the Packers went down hill.

TT was a good man who benefited greatly to luck with Favre, and then Rodgers dropping into his lap. What is unfortunate is that he wasnt able to address his decline and do something about it, and maybe even more Murphy stood by watching and doing nothing. Murphy only acted when he did because of Rodgers actions, and the fact even with Rodgers immense talents it was obvious how poor the talent had become.

Murphy should have been shown the door. Now that he finally acted he acts like he has full control and is on top of everything going on. I think most of us know better. I am glad he was finally forced to act but I will never see Murphy other than how I described. If the Pack has significant success in next few years he will be given credit (and will take credit) but I will give credit to Gute and LF long before Murphy.

croatpackfan's picture

Wow, what a expert here. For what franchise or agency you are working? If not, you are wasting your life...

zeke's picture

Rodgers "dropped" into Thompson's lap the same way that Montana dropped into Bill Walsh's lap in the third round and Brady dropped into Belichick's lap in the sixth.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Burkes is s bust and so is Montravious Adams and Josh Jones is close to being a bust, but Hey lets draft more defense screw the offense right?

Tundraboy's picture

Thought I needed some negativity today to balance things out,so I thought this topic would do the trick. Little did I realize. Yeesh. Things are looking up so what's the problem?

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