Packaging Flynn & 28th Pick to Move Into Top 10
If the Packers choose to place the franchise tag on Matt Flynn, one option is to trade him and the 28th pick in the Draft to the Dolphins for the eighth pick.
Packers blogger Marques Eversoll lays out a scenario that makes a lot of sense for the Green Bay Packers and Miami Dolphins.
It includes placing the franchise tag on quarterback Matt Flynn and trading him along with the 28th pick in the first round to the Miami Dolphins for the eighth pick overall.
Though the list of Flynn's potential suitors features probably three to six teams, the most likely fit is with former Green Bay offensive coordinator Joe Philbin and the Miami Dolphins.
On Friday morning, Miami won a coin flip with Carolina to win the 8th overall pick. According to the draft trade value chart, the 8th pick is worth 1400 points and the 28th pick is worth 660 points. Assuming the Packers and Dolphins swapped first round picks, Matt Flynn would need to carry a "740 point value" in the eyes of Miami for the trade to appear even according to the chart. A value of 740 points is equivalent to the 24th overall selection in the draft. Whether or not a team would be willing to trade its first round draft pick for Flynn, 24th or even later, remains to be seen. However, no matter what the aforementioned chart may say, it would make some sense for Miami to go through with the trade.
If you're Miami and you truly want to acquire Flynn, you face a couple questions: would you be better off keeping your first and second round picks, still facing a question mark at QB - or - would you rather execute the suggested trade with the Packers, in which you'd address your need at QB, keep your second round pick, and still have a selection in the first round, albeit 20 picks later? Assuming Flynn gives Miami a level of stability that the Dolphins haven't seen from their recent Quarterbacks, the price of moving down just 20 spots in the round one seems like a bargain in exchange for a starting QB.
This would appear to be a win-win scenario as long as the Dolphins are truly interested in having Flynn as their starting quarterback.
So what would prevent it from happening?
First of all, the Dolphins, or any other team, aren't going to be willing to pay Flynn the same amount of money as the franchise tag is worth. He would have to agree to a restructured contract before any such trade could take place.
That's probably not much of a stumbling block, however. Flynn very likely just wants an opportunity to become a starter in the NFL and would just as likely agree to a lesser contract for that to happen, within reason. And playing in a familiar offense with Philbin running the show only helps matters.
Another obstacle could be how much interest the Dolphins have in joining the Peyton Manning sweepstakes. If they're serious about Manning, they might choose to pass on Flynn. But there's risks in signing an aging Manning with big-time injury questions as well.
One final hurdle might be the push back from the NFL that suggests the franchise tag is only to be used for retaining players. But that hasn't stopped the Packers from doing the nearly the same thing by tagging and trading defensive lineman Corey Williams to the Cleveland Browns in 2008.
The trade by the Arizona Cardinals for Kevin Kolb a year ago is very likely giving the Dolphins cause for concern, but there's equal risk in not properly addressing the quarterback position at all.
There's no guarantee they've got what it takes to move up in the first round to get Robert Griffin, and selecting any quarterback after Griffin and Andrew Luck comes with as many questions as answers.
From the perspective of the Packers, the trade appears similar benefits. With the eighth pick, they could probably have their pick of the best defensive player in Draft outside of Morris Claiborne and perhaps Quinton Coples, but Coples doesn't provide much value to the Packers defense anyway.
The Packers could very well have their choice of any defensive lineman or outside linebacker barring a trade by another team to get ahead of them.
If such a trade were to happen, the clock is ticking. The deadline to place the franchise tag on a player is Monday Mar. 5.
Comments (85)
February 27, 2012 at 09:39 pm
Love it.
February 27, 2012 at 09:41 pm
My gut tells me this is way too cute for TT. I just don't see it happening. No tag on Flynn regardless of the trade possibilities.
...of course, my gut also tells me that beer and rum mix well, so what do I know?
February 27, 2012 at 10:14 pm
I dont know... to me i think it would be better to just trade Flynn and get more picks... we all know that we can work magic with draft picks
February 27, 2012 at 10:28 pm
Why would Flynn agree to a deal that hurts his new team? Miami can use the draft pick on an O lineman to help protect Flynn. The Packers have no leverage. Flynn will sign when he's an UFA and the Packers will receive a 3rd in 2013 assuming he starts in Miami or wherever he lands. Anyone thinking that Flynn is a good guy and will allow his new team to give the Packers an extra draft choice is just not thinking. Teams know that the Packers arent paying Flynn $14M and if he is going to their team, he will still go to their team in 2 weeks when they can sign him for no compensation. The thought that Flynn will get a Franchise Tag is just plain dumb. The only tag was Finley at $5M+. Nobody else is worthy and will not receive it. The Packers will go thru 2012 without useing the Franchise Tag.
Brian Carriveau
February 27, 2012 at 10:32 pm
The leverage the Packers have is that there's no guarantee Flynn would sign with the Dolphins. In this case, the Dolphins guarantee he plays for them.
February 27, 2012 at 11:06 pm
The benefit to Flynn is that he would go to a familiar system where he can excel faster.
Thus, he would presumable attain greater success (MIA also is closer to the playoffs than CLE), which would translate into bigger contracts down the road. All these articles are meant to either throw off teams in regard to what they REALLY want to draft; or to increase leverage for a trade. Ex: Sherman touting Tannehill is meant to lower GB's trade demands; MIA owner talking about Manning is the same thing: its all about leverage.
What about packaging Driver w/Flynn for their first?
February 27, 2012 at 10:39 pm
Doesn't look likely considering Fin owner Stephen Ross is enamored with Peyton Manning. http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/38930/why-miami-is-best-for-pe...
And they wouldn't have to worry about draft choices with Manning, just mucho dinero.
February 27, 2012 at 10:53 pm
Never happen, a few years ago when GB traded Hasselback in virtually the same scenario, they were able to move only 7 spots ( from 17 to 10). Also GB turned a trde down from ths Dolphins that year (pick 29 because they wanted GB to swap 2nd rounders with them).Get that 2nd rounder from Cleveland and feel like you won the lottery! BTW with pick 36 from Cle TT would get one of the 2nd tier OLB's to go with the Dl he took at 28!!
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 06:49 am
Yeah, the Packers might need to still throw an extra pick in there somewhere, but I think Flynn is roughly equal to the 24th pick in the Draft. Heck, he's younger than Brandon Weeden.
February 28, 2012 at 12:28 pm
So is Aaron Rodgers...
February 27, 2012 at 11:14 pm
Brian, I wished you wouldn't have written this. All it does is keep alive a scenario that's as likely as TT being spotted at a tanning salon...would love it...but ain't happenin'.
Plus, there's no real reason for Flynn to do a sign and trade.
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 06:44 am
Why wouldn't Flynn do it if it came with a contract he liked?
February 28, 2012 at 09:43 am
He wouldn't know what he's worth b/c he didn't use FA to set the bar. Two teams could get in a bidding war. Besides, he's in the driver's seat...he could always say to Miami "here's the best offer I rec'd if you match it or come close I'll sign w/ you".
I'll reiterate...if TT can pull off a tag-n-trade his new moniker is
"Miracle Worker".
February 28, 2012 at 11:23 am
From Miami's perspective what if they hold out for Manning and it turns out he can't even play, they won't know if he can throw at his old level until summer probably. Plus, you'll only get a few years out of him. I think it seems plausible.
February 28, 2012 at 04:47 am
Philbin thinks he's TT, and sticks with #8
February 28, 2012 at 06:48 am
An additional Packers pick could sweeten and close the deal - i.e. #8 for Flynn, #24 and some later pick (4th round, maybe).
But yes, I think it's as unlikely as most of the other options floated around. I know our GM wants value for his players; I just don't know if he's going to be able to swing it.
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 06:56 am
Moving up 20 spots in the first round isn't value?
February 28, 2012 at 08:57 am
Brian,
I think he's ebongreen is saying that TT would LIKE receiving value (i.e. trading up 20 spots) for Flynn but that the Packers don't have a lot of leverage.
February 28, 2012 at 08:29 am
OK Brian, thats good for the Packers and doesn NOTHING for Flynn except hurts the team that he is going to be the starting quarterback. None of the prior scenarios work unless the team is going to play the player if something isn't worked out - like Corey Williams. The Packers are not signing Flynn for $14M unless they have an immeidate trade for at least a 2nd round pick. NO TEAM IS GIVING A SECOND ROUND PICK knowing they have to give NOTHING in a couple of weeks. Why would Flynn sign now knowing that the draft pick he is hurting his team might the the O-lineman that can save his ass from hitting the ground? The packers have NO LEVERAGE with FLYNN -- NONE!!! Every team who wants him knows they can cut the exact deal in a couple weeks and not pay any compensation. If Flynn wants to play for a certain team, he will wait like every player in the NFL would who has all of the cards.
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 08:36 am
I am fully aware the Packers won't place the franchise tag on Flynn unless they have a trade worked out ahead of time.
The leverage the Packers have is that Flynn is able to sign with any team he wants. If the Dolphins are scared he might sign with the Redskins, just for example, this trade ensures he doesn't. So they do have that leverage.
As far as a trade hurting his new team, that doesn't jive. Why doesn't Aaron Rodgers or Charles Woodson accept a contract for $1 million per year? That way the team could use all that money to sign other players, right? It just doesn't work that way. Heck, this trade proposal allows the Dolphins to still have a first round draft choice.
I'm not saying this is going to happen or that it's even likely to happen, but I think there is a possibility.
February 28, 2012 at 08:56 am
Yeah, I'm not sure why people think Flynn wouldn't go for this. He would have a new team saying, "we want you enough that we're willing to trade a pick to get you, offer you the starting job, and pay you some decent money." What's Flynn going to do, turn it down so he gets stuck with the Packers as a backup?
The problem to me is that the Packers would have to have two teams willing to trade for a franchised Flynn, otherwise a single team that's interested would know that they have TT over a barrel.
February 28, 2012 at 08:46 am
This is so crazy it just might work.
February 28, 2012 at 08:52 am
If Miami is afraid that Washington is going to sign him, the Packers have nothing to do with it. Flynn has to sign a contract first and the Packers will give ANYONE permission to talk to Flynn right now. There is nothing in your logic that includes a team stepping up and giving the Packers a 2nd round pick. I wish it were different. Flynn will wait and the Packers will get a supplemental pick in 2013
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 08:57 am
If a trade were to happen, Flynn would agree to a tentative agreement, and then the trade would be consummated. Yes, he must sign the tender first, but it's not like he would sign it and then the Packers would try to work out some sort of trade later. It would all be agreed to ahead of time.
February 28, 2012 at 09:05 am
The best thing the Packers have going for them is the King's ransom that the Rams desire in order to trade up and grab RG3 (allegedly 2 first round picks, plus additional lower round selections). The prospect of ONLY trading back 20 spots, keeping your first and second round picks AND addressing the quarterback situation with a guy who's proven that he can play (albeit in a small sample size) in this league is a seemingly reasonable solution for everyone involved.
February 28, 2012 at 09:34 am
You don't get the point. NO TEAM IS GOING TO GIVE A VALUABLE 2ND ROUND PICK for Matt Flynn -- there is no handshake deal. They all know that the Packers are NOT going to FT Matt Flynn and he will be an UFA within weeks. Why give a 2nd when you don't have to give ANYTHING in 2 weeks. You're assuming Matt Flynn wants to say thank you to the Packer organization and do them a favor. Trust me, the team that is signing Flynn is asking him to wait a couple of weeks so there is no compensation and Flynn will wait. Why would Flynn want his new team to lose a 2nd round draft choice? That choice might be a tackle or guard - someone that will PROTECT FLYNN with his new team. There will be no handshake deals the Packers will probably receive a 3rd next year as a supplemental pick and life moves on. Any team that gives the Packers a 2nd right now for Flynn are idiots. There are no scenarios that simply state the new team signs Flynn that makes any sense.
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 09:42 am
"Why give a 2nd when you don’t have to give ANYTHING in 2 weeks. "
Because there's no guarantee the Dolphins will be able to sign him in two weeks. He might sign with the Redskins or the Seahawks instead. Again, I'm not saying this is going to happen, but you seem so insistent on saying it's not going to happen without acknowledging the leverage the Packers do have, the same leverage they had with Corey Williams and the Patriots had with Matt Cassell. It's not like this isn't without precedent.
February 28, 2012 at 09:53 am
No, the scenarios arent even close. The Packers were willing to pay the FT on Corey Williams and play him. Matt Cassell had a quarterback coming back from major surgury and wasn't an UFA. These scenarios are not even in the same stratosphere as Matt Flynn. The Packers aren't paying $14M - every GM knows that. If the Dolphins can sign him today, they will be able to sign him in 3 weeks. The back door deals going on right now for Matt Flynn are strong and moving quickly. You need to know one point -- FLYNN's HOLDING ALL OF THE CARDS HERE and the Packers have NONE! Flynn is going to sign with the team that pays the most and gives him the job of starter. Miami giving the Packers a 2 without FLYNN SIGNING is meaningless because the Packers aren't FT'ing Flynn without his signature on a contract.
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 10:00 am
"FLYNN’s HOLDING ALL OF THE CARDS HERE and the Packers have NONE!"
Except the one I keep repeating and you refuse to acknowledge.
Also, I can understand what you're typing without the caps.
I'm done.
March 01, 2012 at 08:11 am
I still think the tag and trade is unlikely, but people are just being bone-headed.
You're absolutely right that the Packers do have some leverage, and I definitely think a number of teams are starting to feel the crunch with St. Louis wanting so much for the #2 and the continuing uncertainty of Manning.
February 28, 2012 at 10:06 am
yeah the patriots certainly had us all guessing who they wanted to be their starter the next year - good thing for them it turned out Brady wasn't a flash in the pan like everyone suspected at the time.
February 28, 2012 at 10:11 am
you guys really are bringing out the snarkasm in me today.
TT has already surprised us with a brilliant and somewhat uncharacteristic move with Finley - most of us suspected he'd let him walk.
i know everyone has conditioned themselves to expect TT to be the conservative, sit back and draft 32 unknown players type guy, but Brian's scenario is reasonable.
as he keeps saying, UNLIKELY, but reasonable. if it happens though, i think we could very much agree that TT would be elevated to freakingincrediblegenius status.
February 28, 2012 at 02:21 pm
Who suspected TT would let Finley walk???
February 28, 2012 at 10:01 am
but brian, the packers have no leverage, and it's not to flynn's advantage to agree to such a deal.
would you please spell out again why that's not necessarily true, and cite specific analogous examples of similar deals so that two comments down someone can post their very unique position that the packers have no leverage and it's not in flynn's interest?
thanks,
josh
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 10:09 am
I've already laid out the leverage the Packers have several times. There's no guarantee the Dolphins will sign Flynn in free agency. This trade ensures he's a Dolphin.
Certainly Flynn has the option of just going to free agency. But if this provides him an opportunity to (1) be a starter along with (2) a fair contract and (3) a familiar offense, there's three reasons right there he would have interest in agreeing to such a trade.
February 28, 2012 at 10:13 am
i hope you realized i was kidding, and on your side - and just decided that it made sense to lay the facts out in an orderly fashion once more nonetheless.
it is a best case scenario that is unlikely, but possible.
February 28, 2012 at 10:08 am
When you make a point that makes sense, I'll come back. All of your scenarios are based on Matt Flynn signing a contract with another team thats willing to give GB a 2nd or higher. Knowing they can sign Flynn in 3 weeks and telling Flynn - the deal is done but we would prefer not to give GB a 2nd round pick - we would rather select and wide receiver that you can actually pass too - I think Matt Flynn would be more than OK waiting to become an UFA without his new team giving up anything. WHY? Because the Packers aren't going to sign a $14M FT unlike Corey Williams where they wanted to trade him but the FT number would not have hurt their financial situation or locker room chemistry. Why all of you bloggers can't see this point and keep making up scenarios where the Packers (and I'm an OWNER) would get compensation is insane. Unless there is a larger deal and more picks and other players are involved, Flynn is going to sign and the Packers are getting a supplemental pick in 2013. Plain and simple - the truth!
February 28, 2012 at 10:17 am
john MARA??? you read cheeseheadtv?
February 28, 2012 at 10:15 am
"I’ve already laid out the leverage the Packers have several times. There’s no guarantee the Dolphins will sign Flynn in free agency. This trade ensures he’s a Dolphin."
Your reasoning a flawed. You're saying that there is no guarantee that Flynn will sign with the Dolphins. This trade only ensures hes a Dolphin if he signs with the Dolphins - something he can do on March 6th. The ONLY way he's a Dolphin for sure is if the Packers FT FLynn at $14M and trade him to Miami. Flynn is guarateed a Dolphin for 1 year. Do you see Miami paying $14M for Matt Flynn?
PackerAaron
February 28, 2012 at 10:52 am
John, I think Brian, and others, have made it pretty clear that a deal would need to be done prior to any trade. That deal would not be one year for $14 million.
Brian isn't saying "this WILL happen" - just that it could or might. You disagree. That's cool. But to continually dismiss whole parts of the other counter argument because it doesn't support your side, well...
February 28, 2012 at 11:32 am
Uh oh... Dad's stepping in.
February 28, 2012 at 10:29 am
Poor Brian. Some people don't undersand the difference between laying out a plausible scenario and saying you know what's going to happen.
February 28, 2012 at 10:36 am
EGGS ZACHARY!
February 28, 2012 at 11:24 am
...except it's not plausible. There's 3 legs to this stool.
1) Yes, Packers get more comp.
2) Yes, Dolphins get their QB.
3) Flynn and here's where the premise fails.
..."provides him an opportunity to (1) be a starter along with (2) a fair contract and (3) a familiar offense, there’s three reasons right there he would have interest in agreeing to such a trade".
except Flynn get's all of this by going through FA, signing w/ the Dolphins, PLUS the team now has the 8th pick to draft more help (Richardson, Reiff, Blackmon, Martin, etc) for Flynn.
The slim chance Flynn would agree to a trade, and it's paper thin, is if TT includes players he's willing to give up that Flynn would want to help his transition like James Jones, Driver, Crabtree, Green, or Saine. Slim yes, plausible no.
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 11:42 am
Except if Flynn can get what he wants through a trade, why must he go to free agency?
February 28, 2012 at 12:11 pm
By going through FA he'll get all the things he wants AND the market will set his true worth. You're assuming what's a fair contract. In this situation what's fair is whatever the team will pay him or for his sake, overpay him.
Brian Carriveau
February 28, 2012 at 12:25 pm
Or, just like any number of players––i.e. Finley recently or Bishop, Williams, Jennings, Woodson, Rogers, Driver––all who agreed to a contract extension before their contracts ended.
Again, he could very well opt for free agency. But if there's a contract he likes, I could easily see him being fine with that too.
February 28, 2012 at 12:34 pm
The difference is he's leaving.
The others you mentioned wanted
to stay and were willing to maybe take less to keep the continuity. By accepting a trade Flynn gives up all his rights that he's waited 4 years to exercise.
February 28, 2012 at 12:48 pm
What if the market decides his true worth is in fact less than the guaranteed #'s laid out in an arranged tag and trade? There's uncertainty in FA, if Flynn see's #'s he likes in the trade proposal there's no risk... there is in FA.
February 28, 2012 at 02:58 pm
I hear what you are saying and it has merit. I just think that the teams would have a feel for the market as well. And if Miami in talking w/ Flynn feels they have the inside track they wouldn't offer more than they have to plus give up picks?
February 28, 2012 at 08:41 pm
Flynn has almost no power here. Assuming that Miami hasn't been tampering, they can't talk to Flynn. If the Packers tag him with the intention of trading him, then his choices are accept the trade (and proposed salary) or reject it and be a back-up in GB again.
February 28, 2012 at 08:46 pm
Idiotfan, a backup... At 14+ million. Not bad for holding a clipboard.
February 28, 2012 at 10:33 am
Also remember one other factor ... the new CBA with the rookie wage system basically throws the old trade value chart out the window. Top 10 picks are worth much more as you are getting the same quality of player for less dollars in contract money. It will be interesting this year just how big a difference it will make but the numbers I am seeing for jumping into the Rams spot are bordering on ridiculous.
February 28, 2012 at 10:31 pm
Ted, I was thinking about bringing this up, but, I am lazy by nature. ;)
As far as the old "Trade Value Charts" are concerned.. They're all hogwash anyways.
The varying talent levels of the pool of players presented in each year's draft would necessitate a brand-new trade value chart.. For that matter, since every NFL team assesses talent differently and have different needs, each team in the NFL would need to formulate their own trade value chart for each year's draft.
In the data-centric modern NFL, it's amazing that these NFL teams often look to such a generic tool to calculate the value of a trade up or down.. It's an obviously flawed system for making important decisions.
February 28, 2012 at 10:48 am
Give a scenario that makes sense Chad. Tell me one idiot GM of a National Football League team that is going to part with a 2nd round pick when the Packers have 1 week to FT Matt Flynn. You think Flynn is going to sign in the next week wihout knowing all of his options? You think even if he has selected a team, he's going to allow his new team to give the Packers a 2nd round pick when that very pick could be a WR that Flynn might be throwing too or an offensive lineman that is going to be protecting him? What team is going to pay Matt Flynn $14M for one year because without Flynn signing a long term deal, thats how much next year is going to cost that team by making a trade with GB without Flynns signature on a new contract? Flynn has no interest to help the Packers now even if Miami is telling him he's their guy and here's your money. They will all wait until after FT period expires when they can sign Flynn with no compensation to the Packers. Finley at $5M+ was the only FT candidate on the entire roster. Now that he is signed, I don't see any Packer being tagged. Because if all falls thru, you're stuck with the contract and the Packers were willing to eat Corey Williams contract (for one year)at the time. Packers can't eat $14M and every team in the NFL knows it.
February 28, 2012 at 03:18 pm
"Give a scenario that makes sense Chad. Tell me one idiot GM of a National Football League team that is going to part with a 2nd round pick when the Packers have 1 week to FT Matt Flynn."
Didn't need to read any further. Specifically, the "idiot GM part."
That right there tells me that regardless of what any given GM would do, you would never agree with the move and would consider it idiotic. So you're not really looking at this from a "what could a GM do" perspective, but rather a "what makes sense to me" perspective.
As we've seen many times over, what makes sense to us peons is not always what happens in the NFL.
February 28, 2012 at 10:53 am
What bothers me is that the only guy that is pumping Flynn is McCarthy. Where is Ted? This is like poker. Why not throw a bluff out there that there is serious talk within the Packers that they will franchise Flynn? Work the media, force other teams to talk with you now. It costs us nothing with huge upside. If we get a compensatory #3 for Flynn (since we draft late, it is almost a #4), we will have missed a great opportunity. Ted loves his draft picks so why don't we have a strategy to create some leverage. If we do place the tag on him, this will not prevent any team from wanting Flynn. Flynn wants to be a starter, his agent will cut a long term deal and the 14 M gets restructured. Come on Ted, grow a pair!
February 28, 2012 at 11:13 am
With as notoriously tight lipped as TT and the rest of GB's front office is any leak would have to be viewed with suspicion around the league and not very effective IMO. First thing I thought of when it was leaked that TT had met with texans C Myers agent was that TT wants the Texans to jump and set the market for 30+ year old FA centers instead of the Pack being genuinely interested in him.
February 28, 2012 at 11:34 am
Love the "possibility"... Thanks Brian.
GBP 4 LIFE
February 28, 2012 at 11:38 am
John is actually Wilde
February 28, 2012 at 11:54 am
No GMs use the trade value chart anymore. They haven't for close to a decade.
February 28, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Please explain. How can a team strategize w/o some way of measuring what they would have to dole out or receive as fair compensation in a trade?
February 28, 2012 at 01:24 pm
Each team has their own values that they place on their picks. There is no "universal chart" that they sit on the phone and talk about with other GMs.
Also, each draft has its own value. Some drafts are stronger than others. The values fluctuate from year-to-year.
February 28, 2012 at 09:23 pm
They were talking about this on the radio today. They said the "chart" is widely used as a starting point so there is somewhat of a baseline and that's about it. Lot's of other things come into play... supply and demand... desperation... the depth of a certain position. But according to this guy (don't remember who it was) there is a chart, but it's far from the be-all end-all.
February 28, 2012 at 10:34 pm
Packsmack, I just posted this same thing.. Darn, I gotta read the whole thread before commenting.
February 28, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Peyton is going to the highest bidder
Luck is going to the Colts
RGiii is going to some psycho team that's willing to pay multiple picks.
Tannenhill is 2nd round talent that won't pay off for 2 - 3 years, if that.
and yet there's one poster here, that doesn't think there are an additional 3-5 teams that need a QB upgrade, and don't want a retread ?
I see Matt Flynn having value.
I call that leverage.
February 28, 2012 at 01:06 pm
Right on pkrNboro! Gee, lets see.....Flynn has won a national championship, tutored under Rodgers and McCarthy, on a winning system and team, teammates love him, played big in every opportunity, high character, NFL is passing league and franchise QB is most coveted position on team, many teams don't have one and drafting with high pick beyond Luck and RG3 is a huge risk at a big price tag------seems like value and calculated leverage to me. Tag, trade and total up the picks Ted!
February 28, 2012 at 01:31 pm
The fly in the ointment could be Ross: he seems to be a meddlesome owner, more in the vein of Jones or Snyder.
I doubt if Ireland is anything more than his lapdog.
If these two are clamoring for Manning, it could give the impression that Philbin is not sold on Flynn.
February 28, 2012 at 02:11 pm
If I were Philbin and I were sold on Flynn but Manning was available, of course I would pursue Manning first. Flynn on his best day isn't within a lightyear of Manning, so it's rational to pursue him (unless we're talking bar scene in Beautiful Mind rationality...)
I agree with Brian about the leverage fwiw...
February 28, 2012 at 02:32 pm
For a team that thinks they're just a player away, sure. But for Miami... I don't know. Peyton is getting OLD. Peyton has had three (possibly four, depending who you believe) neck surgeries. Peyton MIGHT have 3-4 years left, Flynn has better than a decade. I see Joe trying to build a franchise, I don't know if i would build it around Peyton, all things considered.
February 28, 2012 at 08:44 pm
Yep. My guess is more like 1-2 years for Peyton. He's also had a couple knee surgeries. It seems unlikely to me that he could last until he's 40.
February 28, 2012 at 01:53 pm
If not Miami, in waiting is Washington, Seattle, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Arizona
February 28, 2012 at 01:59 pm
Arizona - No. They can't do this a year after Kolb.
Kansas City also feels unlikely. Once again, they've recently been down a similar road before to mediocre results.
February 28, 2012 at 02:29 pm
No GM in his right mind would trade 8 for Flynn and 28. Sounds like a deal conjured up by a Packers fan.
February 28, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Jake,
Think of it this way:
GM's will spend a #8 overall pick on a Rookie QB in the draft.
Then, they have to get him up to speed with NFL offenses and defenses. That usually takes 2-3 years of training and coaching.
They are unproven. Most fail to make a big impact. Some are okay, some are failures.
Up until this year, a top ten pick in the NFL draft was going to cost you BIG BUCKS for unproven talent you had to train anyways.. With a high failure rate.
With Flynn, a GM is getting a kid who has already been broken in to the NFL. He knows whats expected of him as a pro. He understands NFL offense. He knows how to read NFL Defenses. The only thing scouts didn't like about Flynn coming out of college was he lacked the arm strength to be a starting, franchise QB. He has put on tape that his arm strength has improved, he can make all the throws. He's a leader, and a hard worker.
Why on earth WOULDN'T a GM give up a #8 in exchange for Flynn and a late first round draft pick? It's a safer move than drafting a QB at 8.
February 28, 2012 at 11:14 pm
No they'd rather draft the next Blaine Gabbert.
February 28, 2012 at 02:30 pm
Flynn has leverage -- for Flynn and kudos to MM for pushing his guy. MM has nothing to gain by doing it except that he's a players coach and guys love to play for him. As for TT, he has nothing to gain by saying a thing about MF and actually would be out of character to say anything. TT is way beyond MF, he's taking his suppl. pick in 2013 and moving on. As for being Wilde, I tried to convince Wilde that the packers wouldnt FT Flynn. He didn't buy my point. Then a bunch of his followers tried to convince me I was wrong. I'm not wrong. The packers will not tag Flynn - he's going to the highest bidder after March 6th. And I don't see any Packer getting tagged. Would you give Scott Wells $8M? Nobody left on our roster is top 5 at their position.
February 28, 2012 at 07:36 pm
I say, keep Flynn, trade Rodgers to the Colts for the #1 overall plus Dwight Freeney, trade the #1 for the Browns #1 and Joe Thomas, trade the Browns #1 for a lower #1 (say, the Jets) and a #2, draft two really good defenders (an OLB and a corner), and now you have Joe Thomas at LT, plus CM3, Dwight Freeney, and two rookie stud defenders plus your own #2-#7 plus supplementary picks to solidify the defense.
Oh yeah, and hope to hell Flynn is as good as Rodgers and the Detroit game was what we can expect 16+ weeks a year.
February 28, 2012 at 08:44 pm
L-O-L
February 28, 2012 at 11:04 pm
Wow, now that's creative.
February 28, 2012 at 11:20 pm
Didn't you hear all the pundits out there, Flynn IS as good as Rodgers, hell, he's better. The fact that Rodgers won the MVP is a crime against New Orleans and Drew Brees. Anyone could put up those numbers with the players the pack has at the skill positions.
February 28, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Well, wait a minute, I like... No, dumb idea, what idiot would trade away their MVP starting QB, and go with the backup QB, who played great in practice and shined in a game or two? It would never work. ...Oh did that happen already? Where am I, what year is it?
February 28, 2012 at 11:33 pm
That asshole wasn't the reigning MVP, and hadn't been in like 12 years. Big difference.
February 29, 2012 at 07:30 am
Sorry, I forgot to use the "Sarcasm" font for that post. And, I'm sure you'll be wearing your 4 jersey and crying tears of pride when that asshole is inducted into the hall of fame. Isnt it time to heal now?
February 29, 2012 at 10:19 am
I won't watch his self-indulgent speech going into the Hall Of Fame. He already inducted himself into the Hall Of Shame.