Stop the Madness. Nothing Matters Except 2023

Say the T word without saying the T word.

It’s week 13, and this Packers season has officially descended from merely horrible to certifiably insane.

Name another NFL franchise whose quarterback — with not one but two significant injuries — can use a podcast to inform his coaches and front office that after reviewing his medical reports, he’s decided he will play Sunday against the Bears. 

And this announcement came shortly after Matt LaFleur told the media that he sees no reason to make a change at defensive coordinator. 

If Vince Lombardi were alive, he’d yell it again but louder: What the hell is going on around here?

Maybe to some none of it matters. The season is lost, Rodgers has earned the right to play if he wants, there’s no easy Barry replacement, yada yada. 

We’ll get to Barry in a minute. But there is no earthly reason Rodgers should play, and doing so hurts the team. If the argument is that the Packers are not mathematically out of playoff contention, and that Rodgers gives the team the best chance to win, well, a couple of things:

 

  1. Rodgers is 1-6 since breaking his thumb. Could Love be worse? Sure didn’t look like it last week. 
  2. Green Bay could win out and still wouldn’t make the playoffs, unless you believe in divine intervention. 

 

But all that begs the real question: Why do we want the Packers to win games? Given the Packers’ looming financial straitjacket, with multiple players carrying cap hits of more than $20 million (not to mention 12’s albatross of a contract), the team is in desperate need of as much inexpensive talent as possible. The 2023 draft will be one of the most important in franchise history, and having an early pick in every round will help immensely. Even at that, a lot of regulars are going to have to be cut or traded, which hopefully might build some additional draft capital. 

The Packers need to do as much as they can now to navigate a perilous future. Do they trade Rodgers? Or Love? Should the team exercise Love’s fifth-year option?  How do you do any assessment of that with a quarterback who has thrown 18 passes this year? Or if you want to trade him, how do you build max trade value by keeping him on the bench?

Rodgers has indicated that he understands these issues, but he appears to not care. At least not enough. Even hobbled, he can probably beat a Bears team without Justin Fields, which only damages the team further. At least if Love plays and wins, we’d see how he can command the offense. LaFleur’s offense. Instead, we’re supposed to marvel at what a warrior Rodgers is, and be happy at how committed he is to winning games. It’s madness.

And then there’s Barry. Unless one is blind, or a member of the Barry family, there is no logic to wanting him around. It’s demoralizing for everyone at this stage. Having said that, if keeping him in place improves the team’s draft position, I’m for it. The only exception would be if the team can convince someone like Vic Fangio to come in and commit to staying through next year and not entering this offseason’s  head-coaching sweepstakes. Which is unlikely for anyone good.

We’re not supposed to use the ‘T’ word, but if it didn’t look so bad I’d bench all the core players. The last thing we need is for a key contributor to tear an ACL at the end of a meaningless season and be gone for next year. 

Everything needs to be about 2023. Everything.

__________________________
Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child.  He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.

15 points

Comments (181)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
T7Steve's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:48 am

I've never believed a team should TANK. How do you actually do that without sitting your best players and risk getting developmental players hurt by NFL starters? How does the NFL get around the gaming commissions and implications?

Rodgers is the starter. If he wants to play, let him play. Love is our future for good or bad. He doesn't need to play against a Bears defense that only has pride, revenge and their jobs to play for at home. If love gets a game later, or some meaningful possessions with plays designed for his abilities it will be fun to watch.

Teams can't afford to let first round picks sit in today's NFL. That doesn't mean that if you can afford to do that that it isn't good for their growth to sit behind an MVP and watch. Take advantage of the situation we're lucky enough to have. Don't trade in your car with a full tank of gas. All we have to do is check the oil on the new one and make them detail it before the test drive. (Shakespear)

-8 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:36 am

I can’t agree on this. This game means little to either side except pride, but the Bears know they are in the early phase of a rebuild. The Packers have dug a Murphy pit well summarized above. Rodgers has an oblique and his thumb. He’s hedging in his future (Favre style) and we really do not know what Love is and have little time to find out.

Yes we saw some flashes, for a very limited number of snaps late in a game. We need to see a lot more, both across all phases of a game and consistently over a number of games. This would have been an ideal opponent to start a young QB with a specifically designed game plan. It would also give a bye to study and adjust that before the next one while Rodgers healed. Depending on where we are, a rational decision on the post bye games could then be made in 2 weeks (don’t hold your breath on the math even if we win in Sunday).

Make no mistake, the Bears are not good and have shed talent Beating them really means very little. Indeed, with their D, we should score enough to beat them with a basically functional O. To lose we would have to see Barry serve up a Draytonesque follow up to last week against the run and not score ourselves. A Rodgers led win will therefore mean nothing while a loss may really make things ugly and start those vested hiding behind the defense of health. Bluntly, if that is a factor post game we will know that he had no bloody business being out there. If Love wins, it’s a step and perhaps some grounds for optimism.

After this game we should be practicing with youth. We need future players like Tom and Toure, Wyatt and Slaton to take the fire and learn through experience. Let’s try Douglas at S. We need Love to practice with the young receivers and with the OL and RBs. Tom needs to be one of those. That’s the only way our future gets better. We get better information on players in real games and they get real snaps to develop and practice leading up to that.

We may not be as good. We might actually be better this season though. We don’t know. At this point our best projections still constitute deep failure. Some of those changes also seem long overdue and called for by performance in limited snaps. Whatever the outcome this year, that approach would inevitably have placed us in better next year for doing so.

The path we are taking is one only the most bankrupt and broken leaderships would take. Rodgers isn’t any more than the very short term future of the Packers, Love might be more or simply a distraction. We need to find out. This season is done. Don’t kid yourself, this is so for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately the leadership we have just continues not to face them and that’s a recipe for worse in both the short and long term.

We will gain nothing starting Rodgers except, maybe, a victory over a team that knows it’s in the ground floor of a rebuild by a team everyone else can see ought to be. The rest of the league isn’t impressed by the Bears or under any illusions about where they are as a franchise.

Next years Bears will be very different. A loss on Sunday by the Bears will mean little next fall. A loss by the Packers would be ground shaking. Sadly, expect the “we shouldn’t have played him” mantra as this leadership isn’t facing reality as demonstrated by this discussion.

7 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:34 am

YES! Thank you CW! We must take the responsible approach to roster management and commit to the young players!

0 points
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Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:26 pm

CW’s hubris is showing.

-1 points
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badaxed's picture

December 04, 2022 at 10:31 am

" bankrupt and broken leaderships" Spot on.

0 points
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badaxed's picture

December 04, 2022 at 10:31 am

Sit the injured Diva. play the youngsters.

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:06 am

"The last thing we need is for a key contributor to tear an ACL at the end of a meaningless season and be gone for next year. "

"Everything needs to be about 2023. Everything."

While I agree to a certain extent, I don't believe the Packers can get a fair assessment of Jordan Love whenever the hell that might be by sitting a bunch of regular starters. Jordan Love DESERVES to have a decent O-Line, Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon, Lazard, Watson, Toure, and all others who have been playing with Rodgers on his 1-6 "Run to a Top 5 Pick of the 2023 Draft Tour". These guys are paid millions upon millions of Dollars to PLAY. I want to see Jordan Love play, but I want to see him have EVERY opportunity to succeed too. Sorry folks, Winfree and Tyler Davis don't provide a lot of confidence.

Rodgers will play this week because that's what HE WANTS. Our play caller who's posing as Head Coach won't do anything about it. Gute would probably step in but because he agreed to be GM under these ridiculous circumstances where Murphy plays the Packers version of Jerry Jones he won't/can't.

I can see it already. Rodgers plays this weekend and since Justin Field probably won't play should "Own" the Bears one last time (Hopefully) in Soldier Field. Then it's on to the bye week when the Packers will mercifully will be eliminated from ALL playoff possibilities. At that time Rodgers SHOULD be sat regardless how he feels about it, and the Packers SHOULD play everybody that is a preferred starter on offense.

24 points
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Untylu1968's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:23 am

I can picture Rodgers playing some hero ball, getting down a couple scores because of it, then handing the reigns over to Love in the fourth quarter, for some mop up duty.

1 points
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x24's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:04 am

Apparently- you are forbidden from picturing this

2 points
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Savage57's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:15 am

Remember when everyone hated Favre for being a diva and putting his interests before the team's and holding the Packers hostage?

Turning into a princess has become an occupational hazard for a successful NFL QB.

20 points
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Untylu1968's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:09 am

You definitely had the hate Favre crew, but you also had the hate Rodgers, before he ever had a chance to prove himself gang. It would only be a great dream, if Love somehow could have a HOF career in Green Bay, but some pride and feelings would have to be insulted/hurt for us to know, what he has to offer. Unfortunately, I don't believe he'll get the opportunity.

2 points
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fthisJack's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:14 pm

Love probably won't see the field until the last couple games.... not with the prima donna telling his coach that he is good to go. He's hurting the team and he doesn't care. Hopefully they can send his ass packing in the offseason to some lousy team desperate for a QB.

2 points
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barutanseijin's picture

December 02, 2022 at 04:54 pm

Would love to see that asshole shipped off to Houston.

3 points
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badaxed's picture

December 04, 2022 at 10:36 am

"Houston we have a problem". we are willing to trade.

0 points
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Since'61's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:38 am

Savage57 - It's interesting to me that the Packers with back to back HOF QBs have completely mishandled the end of both of their careers. They let Favre play the "I'm retired, I'm not retired" gig for 4-5 seasons before finally trading him. And with Rodgers they should have traded him before this season began.

Even though it's 15 seasons between the Favre trade and the Packers current QB situation the constants in both scenarios are Murphy and Gute. 2 All-time HOF/MVP QBs who both became Prima Donnas neither of which the Packer's management has been able to handle.

Time to start Love find out what the Packers have and move on via trade or however. It's the best and the fair approach for everyone involved. Thanks, Since '61

13 points
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Oppy's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:52 am

"Even though it's 15 seasons between the Favre trade and the Packers current QB situation the constants in both scenarios are Murphy and Gute. "

You are correct about Murphy and Gutekunst being constants- both were here during the Favre saga. I've spoken previously about this.

What surprises me, however, is how differently MM is approaching Rodgers.

Yes, they were both here in GB during the Favre circus- but the difference is, Murphy was the new President who backed his GM and HC's decision to move on from a Hall of Famer without blinking. Gute was an understudy of Ted Thompson at the time. Murphy was unflinching and Gute watched a brave Ted Thompson do what was best for the team and move from the aging Hero who had become a bit of a problem, to the young QB in the wings who represented, if nothing more, the potential for the future.

While you're trying to draw a connection between this failure to move forward and the failure to move forward from Favre to Rodgers, I can't help but think you've got it confused. Murphy came in as the new guy and dropped the hammer back then- he cleaned up the mess, not created it. Gute witnessed (and Im sure was a part of the conversations about) a successful transition from the HoF'er who was creeping towards his expiration date, and the young unproved but talented kid in the stable.

Yes, the are the common denominator by presence, but not in how they are handling their business.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:40 am

I don’t know that I agree that Murphy dropped the hammer. I think Ted had simply had enough. Ted was not a guy who brooked interference in his domain while healthy and he wasn’t a guy who was afraid to go out on a limb if his instincts told him to. In fact, Ted didn’t seem to care what others thought: he trusted himself. Perhaps that and clear accountability are the true differences.

Gute was a college scout, in the road for half the year back then—I think he had the SE beat. He didn’t become a primarily office guy till he became Director of College Scouting in 2012, 4 years after Rodgers became the starter. So Gute’s personal involvement in the Favre/Rodgers transition was likely very limited.

5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:46 am

After the meltdown in the NFC CH Game @ Home, the writing was on the wall for Favre. I would have started Rodgers in that game with his scrambling ability. McCarthy trying to run a spread offense in 24 below temps was ludicrous. Yes, as SE scout, Gutey pushed for Josh Jones to double up on the King fiasco...

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:16 am

Josh Jones was 2017. Not sure of the connection.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:50 am

He pushed the guy and McCarthy was onboard etc. A few articles ruminated about the selection. A one-two whiff.
Remember, the scouts went to the podium to announce the picks. Ted was not in a good way.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:41 pm

So? Scouts and GMs whiff every year. It’s just a question of what they don’t whiff on and how big the hit is.

2 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 05:45 pm

That is very far from the point. King over TJ Watt lit up the blogs. Jones was a rover guy with a high RAS, projected to the third -fourth rounds. Watch the tape, he never could cover a receiver.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:14 pm

Let it go. It’s old news and just as dumb-in-retrospect will come again whoever is GM.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:23 pm

Yes, best to turn the page, optimize the moment and Hope they do not make the same mistakes twice--whoops.

0 points
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barutanseijin's picture

December 02, 2022 at 05:00 pm

Rodgers wouldn't have done any better. The Giants pushed the Packers around in that game. Plus it was really cold. The only time Rodgers has been able to win those sort of games was in 2010.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 05:52 pm

I was in attendance. Rodgers could have executed the short game and scrambled through some of the zone coverage. McCarthy, naturally abandoned the run. Ryan Grant with Kuhn as the lead dog pounded them on the first touchdown drive. The Pack had to maintain that level of physicality and stay in synch. Win the time of possession. The three and out s trying to pass just froze them in place and gave the Giants momentum. Al Harris could not stay with Buress and no safety help.

1 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:44 am

Im not surprised by Murphy since his mandatory retirement age is approaching. Rather than do whats best for the longterm health of the team, he sacrificed a significant portion of this team's future because he thought Rodgers gave him a better chance to chase a ring before he's forced to retire. Too many people at 1265 who are putting their legacies above the team and its cost them dearly.

5 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:11 pm

Maybe do the Roman thing like in the prison scene in Godfather II...

3 points
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ThunderFromDownunder's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:06 pm

The other constant is the FO could only win one Superbowl for each HOF/MVP QB ( shakes head )

1 points
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GP1's picture

December 03, 2022 at 12:06 am

Murphy may well have been involved but 15 years ago Gute was a "junior" and would have had between little and no input into the Farve stuff.
Beyond that we certainly played ourselves out the door in our determination to keep Rogers at all costs.

1 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:29 pm

oddly, my memory is not everyone hating favre for his diva routine, rather them hating thompson, mccarthy and rodgers. you must have been young when that drama unfolded.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:46 pm

My abiding memory is that it was very split. There were definitely those you describe but also plenty who couldn’t abide Favre and his tractor watch antics or thought him in decline after cold weather struggles. There were others, a minority, who were just convinced Rodgers was potentially going to be too good to pass on.

2 points
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CheesyTex's picture

December 02, 2022 at 03:30 pm

My memory says that Packers management wanted to move on from Favre, and Favre wanted to stay and compete for the job. Very different from the Rodgers situation where Packers management locked him in via the huge contract.

I also remember Pack offering Favre something like $20 million to stay retired, and hiring the top spin doctor of the time (Ari Fleischer) to publicly paint Favre as the villain.

The Favre divorce created a huge split among Packers fans that, IMO, persists today.

0 points
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MEO73's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:25 am

You invoked Lombardi. He would be appalled at the suggestion the Packers should not do their best to win, regardless of whether they are mathmatically eliminated or not. If you're going to play, you play to win, not to improve your draft position.

11 points
13
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T7Steve's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:44 am

That's it! "You play to win the game". Beat the Bears. No matter who's playing.

Also, if you play Love to see how he does, and don't like it, what do you do? Draft or trade for another that you won't know how they'll do either? Why risk getting Love hurt in a losing season? He's, our future. If Rodgers wants to quit or gets hurt, we'll see him soon enough.

As much as Love could play this year on a poor team, we still wouldn't know how good or bad he can be, He'll still have to go through growing pains next year regardless of how much he plays this year on a team structured entirely different than next year.

0 points
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3
Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:03 am

I agree with this, but what if you truly believe the Packers have a better chance with Love this Sunday?

10 points
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Since'61's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:41 am

Bingo! Thanks, Since '61

2 points
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T7Steve's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:41 am

Beat the BEARS! That always has and always will be my goal.

How many games that we lost this year, would we have won, if Love had played? No way we can know.

With this year's Packers, it a crap shoot either way. Love even starting on defense might give us a better chance, but I don't think they'll try it. No matter who the quarterback is, we'll win the game only if the D comes to play. Between them, they scored 33 against the Eagles.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:54 am

Well put LH. I don’t even think you need to be sure if that. If there a legitimate uncertainty about it then all other factors say go with youth and health.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:55 am

Ride the hot hand. Play to Win. Rodgers can play being the OC for a game.

3 points
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croatpackfan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:10 am

While I agree with you that if the next year will be year when Jordan Love will become starter, he will have good, excellent, bad or very bad games. That is the normal process every young QB (not only QB) have to pass.

But, I also do not agree to play Jordan Love to lose game. If you want to see what he is capable of, he needs (as whole team) to play to win.

Btw, I truly believe that playing ACR gives Bears better chances to win the game. Nobody, not even Favre or Rodgers can not negate pain and the influence of the pain on concentration and timing. Both very important if you want to play at the expected level.

What I would do if I've opportunity to make the decision - I'll play ACR and back ups on O as well as on D and starters should play only if they are important for ST.

Crying about ACR owns Bears is immature thing, much, much more than what I was accused for. ACR do not owns Bears, Packers does in that meaning what people here using for.

That is how I see situation with that question about who would play what.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:51 am

Lombardi wouldn’t put up with a lot of what’s going on or be afraid to make changes. When something or someone isn’t working, sentimentality wasn’t a thing. Lombardi would take a chance in being better not merely hoping the other team was bad enough that we might scrape by. LaFkeur is about as diametrically opposite to Lombardi as one could get.

3 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:30 am

Just because a team should always play to win (which I agree with) doesn’t mean that the front office always has to make “win-now” decisions. We need to keep the future in mind as well. For 2023, I am of the belief that the Packers should trade away their older players/players with large contracts for 3 reasons:

1) It will free up the salary cap long-term so that we will be much more flexible in the future to contend, 2) it will give us lots of good premium draft capital in what is expected to be an incredible draft class, and 3) Even if the Packers wanted to “win-now” in 2023 and did all they can to do it, they wouldn’t make it very far. There’s not much change they could make to this currently 4-8 roster without a complete overhaul. How would that make us any better?

We must enter a rebuild in 2023. Does that mean that they should play any less hard in 2023? Absolutely not. I say we should enter a rebuild because it gives us the best chance of success in the long term. I think we should, rather than trying to squeeze what little there is left of Rodgers’ super bowl window with the Packers, we should turn the page and commit to the Jordan Love era. One will be in his prime in a couple of years, while the other is on the decline and will likely retire in the next couple of years.

What I believe the Packers must do is they must sacrifice their slim chances of winning a Super Bowl in 2023 so that they can dramatically improve their chances of winning one in ‘24 and ‘25. This is the path our front office should take. No matter what, we should always play to win.

3 points
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Packers0808's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:30 am

When Rodgers went ahead and claimed he is well enough to play and will start against the bears any semblance of LaFluer being head coach went right out the door. When cleaning house for next year the broom should be broad with the three main dirt out the door, Rodgers, LaFluer and Barry!

11 points
14
3
Johnblood27's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:34 am

what do those three dirty boys have in common?

thats right folks! all three have extended contracts!!!

boycott next season if the status quo reigns in GB for the remainder of this season and into the off-season.

4 points
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Barnacle's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:41 am

I would add Gute and Murphy to the list to sweep out.

This team is a financial mess and needs to take drastic action.

AR seems to have taken control from a weak and unwise management team.

Trying to win with young players versus allowing old veterans to dictate when they want and with who they want to play with seems like a better short and long term decision.

4 points
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PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:21 am

Exactly Barnacle! That’s what I’ve been saying all along!

0 points
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Barnacle's picture

December 02, 2022 at 03:25 pm

Packy

Thanks for your support.

Management and coaches do not count against the salary cap. I can’t understand why the packers go with so much cheap inexperienced staff and management.

You would think they would know better?

1 points
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Bitternotsour's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:31 pm

You missed the main man for firing, the man who enabled this mess, sled hill Mark Murphy.

Mark Murphy messed with the plan. He desperately wanted a super bowl and he sold out the future to bet on an OLD qb and a weak HC.

4 points
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SinceLombardi's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:32 am

I firmly believe that it’s a 1 and 1A situation for the packers coaching situation.
Does anyone really believe MLF can be successful here without an MVP level #12 ??
Weren’t we averaging 19 PPG before the Philly game? Except for Rich Bisaccia, I don’t see anyone on this staff that should be here next year.
BTW, Vic Fangio did better in Denver with backups at QB, than Hackett is doing with Wilson. He deserves consideration as a HC again.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:05 am

In 2019, LaFleur got 13 wins with a QB who wasn’t anywhere near being an MVP.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:59 am

He was a season away from one and we had a decent roster and a fair amount of luck. I think we’ve seen plenty of what LaFleur really brings since to stop trying to credit him for that.

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:19 am

That's disingenuous. What he was the season before or after is irrelevant. The year before he wasn't very good at all. The year after he was the MVP.

His level of play in 2019 was not anything that anybody was touting as MVP level. He was an average NFL QB by all the usual measures, who was exceptionally good in one key area: He did not turn it over.

If you can't give LaFleur some credit, that says more about you than him, IMO.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:34 am

I do not think it’s disingenuous. At the time I was hoping LaFleur could learn and grow. In fact he’s proven unable to and time has exposed more, serious flaws. I no longer believe that LaFleur brought much except a new face. That and an improving roster and health on Rodgers part was the reason, with a little luck in ‘19. I don’t hold back in my conviction that LaFleur is constitutionally incapable of Bering an effective Head Coach and us the main reason we could never get past certain teams and tactics in ‘20 and ‘21. There is enough evidence out there that supports that and more.

0 points
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fthisJack's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:24 pm

MLF biggest flaw is being owned by Rodgers. They created a monster by signing him to that salary crushing contract.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:54 pm

That’s one of them, but coaching choices, inability to accept the obvious, to learn from past defeats rather than go in and try the same thing, the lack of tactical ability—being both out coached and unable to adjust during games all need to be added to that. It’s a list that could go longer, motivation, physicality, readiness to open the season … It doesn’t matter. So many flaws that the full list is overkill. The guy is not a head coach.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:11 am

29 TDs with 4 picks wins for most teams. Similar situation as with our current defense not performing to pay grade.

3 points
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stockholder's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:34 am

Insane? Rodgers has earned the right to play! There is No argument! Love is not the answer. WAR IS!
This officially has turned into a War between Rodgers and Love. And the press knows it.
Because you don’t care about any shoot out. Just a change in QB! Because the outcome no longer matters.
You think this team has had a break down, from management, to Rodgers. You’ve gone ballistic.
Accountability on why this team has failed, yada yada. Did you really see the replacement of players? No-
You only see Love. You're blind to the other changes that should have happened that draft year. And beyond!
It’s a broader issue. The needs of the team never changed. And this has turned into what you want to see only!
Why do we want to win games? What a asinine summary. If you don’t care to win. The game fix is easy!
And the refs will decide the outcome. Because it No longer matters. This is a gambling sport. The trap is money.
Trade Rodgers and you’ve trapped the others. Trade Love. And you change 2023. For Needs! Before the War.
Wolf said you build a team with Tackles and CBs. Think of how many different OL, Rodgers has had.
Think of how many failures at WR. And how many TEs. Rodgers never got the weapons he needed.
He got a war.

-10 points
2
12
croatpackfan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:26 am

I did not expect nothing less than what you wrote. I just want to make one small remark. It is not 1992 and the rules of football dramatically changed over 30 years.

Also, will you be so kind to answer me honestly on just two question. Who you were defending in Favre/ACR situation? Didn't Favre earned the rights to play further for Packers?

Ah, for you history is not the teacher of the life!

6 points
7
1
stockholder's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:14 am

I defended Favre.- The biggest reason for that, was that the windows of players got shut. AND HIS THUMB! The rebuild was on.----
The Packers No longer cared about winning. Only Rodger's development. And TT got him what he needed.
Now let me tell you the difference in Gute vs. TT. TT could find talent. He took the BPA in the top 50 per drop. But when his scouting personal left. He No longer could make a difference.
Gute fails after the top 50. He doesn't protect his picks. He's more like Sherman than TT. His success has been Free agency.
TT would never have put this team in CAP HELL.

-2 points
3
5
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:38 am

I know you defended Favre. Pretty much the same way you approach Rodgers & Love and with equal certainty, persistence and conviction, although I don’t recall you being impressed by TT at the time.

0 points
3
3
stockholder's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:55 pm

Impressed? Far from it. I preferred Wolf. Still do. Loved Reggie White coming to Green Bay.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 03:25 pm

Even Wolf had screw ups.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:19 pm

Hiring Rhodes over Andy Reid, then doubling down on sherman. Not gold jacket moves.

1 points
1
0
Savage57's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:08 am

Might I suggest trying the decaf?

0 points
5
5
Savage57's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:08 am

Or maybe just stay off the meth?

-3 points
2
5
Johnblood27's picture

December 02, 2022 at 05:08 pm

luv me some of this!

1 points
1
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:19 am

Rodgers did never get the weapons he needed, and that wasn’t fair, but there is nothing we can do about it now. Rodgers is on the decline, and Love will be hitting his prime in a couple of years. Which should we commit to long term? I wonder…. Not only is Love cheaper, he will be better than Rodgers in 2-3 years. Rodgers is on the decline and will be retiring in the next 2-3 years.

I disagree with you in that the purpose of the NFL is to win games. It is to win championships. We must not take the short-sighted path that will dig us even deeper into the long-term hole we’ve created so we could contend in ‘20 and ‘21. We must take the responsible path that will allow us to have the best shot of winning a championship 2-3 years down the line.

Why shouldn’t we try again in 2023? Simply put, we won’t have a good enough roster. We are already over the cap in ‘23, and even if we cut/trade away many players, I have done the math and we would not have enough cap space to bring in multiple impact free agents. Besides, unless we entered a rebuild, we wouldn’t be able to overhaul our current roster, which is now sitting at 4-8. We shouldn’t sacrifice a potentially bright future in Love for the almost non-existent chance of winning a ring with Rodgers in 2023. In ‘21, we sacrificed the future for the present. Now we must do the opposite.

We must trade/cut older players or players with large contracts (including Rodgers; it is very feasible to do so) to give us as much draft capital and long-term cap space as possible. Ideally, we will have multiple early round picks in the ‘23 draft which can hopefully set the foundation for the next era of Packers football. 2023 should be about seeing what we have in the rookies and developing Love while absorbing all of the dead cap hits from the past few years. That way, we will have a fresh salary cap in 2024 and lots of good players on cheap rookie contracts. I have done the math, and we would have over 100m of cap space in ‘24! Then we can not only act like a contending team, we can be a contending team who can actually have a chance of winning a SB. Acting this way isn’t irresponsible; it is just long-term smartness.

Ultimately, we both agree that the goal should be to win championships. I am saying that the best way to do that would be to sacrifice 2023 so that we can have a very strong team in 2024, rather than having a mediocre team in 2023 while even further sacrificing the future.

-1 points
2
3
stockholder's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:26 am

Favre did play years beyond the packers. Rodgers can too. But you don't tank! You may end up with a mediocre team this time. Thinking Love is Rodgers. Putting us back to the losing years.
You must look at Gute's Failure's first. TT didn't have any, when the switch to Rodgers was made.

-1 points
2
3
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:41 am

TT had lots of failures. All GMs do.

3 points
3
0
jannes bjornson's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:31 am

Most of his whiffs came when his health was waning and the subordinates meddled in the draft.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:19 pm

Ball was the guy in charge then, and it was much worse I agree but but he whiffed from the start too. Go back and look.

0 points
0
0
barutanseijin's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:36 pm

Brian Brohm, Mike Neal, Pat Lee, Derrick Sherrod, Justin Harrell, Hawk was pretty meh for a #5 pick…

0 points
0
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:34 pm

Favre played beyond the Packers, but did he win a Super Bowl? No! Did Aaron Rodgers win a Super Bowl the year after BF lost in the NFC Championship? Yes!

I agree the decision to draft Love was a poor one at the time, but since we are likely out of SB contention for the rest of Rodgers' Packers career, we might as well see what we have in Love

3 points
4
1
jurp's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:47 pm

I like this format for your posts - kind of like a blank verse poem, including the punctuation.

Still nonsense,
though.
But artistic
non
sense

2 points
2
0
egbertsouse's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:40 am

Another great article. Even if you get a million dislikes from delusional fan boys who think GB still has a shot or think Diva’s massive contract entitles him to run the team and preempt the coach and GM whenever he gets a brain fart on McTankTop’s podcast. Diva hasn’t earned the right to play or do anything but cash his big check every week. If I were MLF I’d suspend him for conduct detrimental to the team. That would be the first step in reasserting control.

7 points
11
4
mrtundra's picture

December 02, 2022 at 07:44 am

Rodgers should sit out this game. That would be nearly three weeks off, for him, with our bye, next week. Valuable time needed to heal up. The biggest mistakes the front office did was to give Rodgers control over him having a say in playing and giving him that huge contract, knowing he only was going to play another season, or two, at the most. This off season will be ugly. If Rodgers does retire, his cap hit will be ginormous. Also, I think, many players would exit with him. Bakhtiari, Cobb, Amos, Lewis and Crosby could all call it quits. Jones may be gone, as well.Next Spring's draft and FA period will be huge in bringing players to GB. Lots of holes to fill and little $$$ to do it. Russ Ball has a tough job ahead of him. So does Gutekunst.

3 points
6
3
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:03 am

We will not feasibly be able to fill all of the holes next year. We should do the responsible thing and recognize it is time for a rebuild. I agree, we must trade lots of players away for good draft capital, but we won’t be in a position to make contender-sequel moves. I have done the math, and we are too limited in cap space. We must have a “wash” year in 2023 so that in 2024, we can make all of the FA and draft moves you are talking about. Sacrificing 2023 would make us even stronger in 2024, and maybe then we can finally get a ring.

-1 points
1
2
HarlanHuckleby's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:07 am

I'm completely on board with trading Rodgers, but wonder if it is feasible anymore given his huge contract. I suppose it would have to be to a team that is convinced a healthy Rodgers could help them and that they could get assurance to restructure his contract, which would basically require Rodgers' full buy-in to the trade. There might be some other financial chicanery possible, but that's beyond my awareness as a casual fan.

2 points
2
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:11 am

We have to pay him at least $40 million over the next few years. His actual salary for 2023 is pretty small. He doesn’t have a no trade clause.

6 points
6
0
HarlanHuckleby's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:22 am

Leatherhead, so it sounds like a trade would be feasible if the Packers were willing to eat a bunch of money themselves (not a slam dunk, but feasible). I think the window for a blockbuster trade is past, the Packers would have to take what they could get in terms of draft pick(s) and decide that the long-term financial and salary cap benefits would be there.

4 points
4
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:55 am

I completely agree

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:06 am

A post June 1 trade is very feasible and actually ameliorates the cap pain somewhat. The reality is the challenge is finding a partner to trade him and accepting that we may effectively get nothing given his cap hit.

One point that’s not getting made is that playing Rodgers in a bad team, banged up is not likely to help trade prospects. If he gets a significant injury then we are potentially screwed. We could end up being forced to carry his entire cap hit as dead weight and play Love.

1 points
2
1
Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:29 pm

He's not much of a cap hit to anybody else. His salary is only a little over $1 million, so that's pretty assumable by anybody. He's going to get $40 million from us, regardless, so whatever he'd get from somebody else is gravy, from his perspective.

If he got a significant injury, then he might think about retirement, and we could negotiate an injury settlement that might be better than the $40 million we're looking at.

One thing is certain: If he's not the starter, we don't want him on the sidelines making faces every time Love makes a mistake. Love is stepping into a tough enough situation and doesn't need any more rocks in his backpack.

If Rodgers is an average starting NFL QB, he has value to somebody. How many teams would he instantly improve at QB? Detroit? The Giants? The Commies? Arizona? Look at a team like Chicago, for example. Yes, Rodgers is better than Fields at this point, but Fields has a future and Rodgers.....not so much.

Surveying the league, I'm not seeing a lot of places where they might think that a 40 year old version of Aaron Rodgers is a significant improvement over what they have.

1 points
1
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:40 pm

How about the Jets? They are in a win-now mode, with a super-bowl caliber roster, but have a terrible QB that is holding them back. They likely won't have a high enough draft pick in 2023 to get a CJ Stroud or Bryce Young, so I could very reasonably seeing them trade for Rodgers in exchange for some premium draft capital

0 points
0
0
Johnblood27's picture

December 02, 2022 at 05:16 pm

How about Tampa Bay?

How about indy?

How about tennessee?

How about New England?>

0 points
0
0
LeotisHarris's picture

December 02, 2022 at 05:36 pm

How 'bout them Cowboys?

2 points
2
0
barutanseijin's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:43 pm

You’re right if only on the field performance are considered, but it’s conceivable that a team may want him for the media buzz he would generate.

0 points
0
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:38 pm

I would prefer they do it Pre-June first. That concentrates the cap money into 2023, which will give us more freedom in 2024. Not to mention we can get 2023 draft capital for Rodgers if we do it Pre June 1.

I have been saying this over and over, and I cannot understand how anyone could rationally think otherwise: The Packers will not be contending for a championship in 2023 no matter what. Keep Rodgers, let Rodgers go, no matter what. We must enter a rebuild in 2023. 2023 should be about developing Love, the other young players, and the 2023 rookies. That will lay the foundation for 2024, when we can actually contend again.

0 points
1
1
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:00 am

It is feasible to trade AR, and if people want more details, I can post about it. I think it should happen for a couple of reasons:

1) the Packers aren’t going anywhere next year. I think it is absolutely crazy that some people want to try and contend next year. That is beating a dead horse. If we couldn’t make it in ‘20 and ‘21, we SURE wouldn’t make it next year. We are already slightly over the cap. The best thing to do is to cut or trade away all of our older players or players with large contracts in the off-season for draft picks. ‘23 should be a “wash” year, where we absorb all of the dead cap hits that allowed us to contend in ‘21 and ‘20. If we trade our big players, it will give us an incredible amount of cap space in ‘24. Then, we can make contending moves.

This is the way that the Bills and the Bears rebuilt/are rebuilding. If we follow it, we will have a stronger, better contender than the ones in ‘20 and ‘21, and maybe we can finally get a ring

3 points
3
0
Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:32 pm

The Chicago Bears are 67-95 between November 19, 2012 and November 19, 2022. Is that the sort of rebuild you are envisioning for the Packers?

0 points
0
0
Return_To_Sanity's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:49 am

If they trade him post-June 1st, the dead cap hit would be about $40 mil that they can spread amongst the 2023 and 2024 salary caps. $20 mil each year is doable.

1 points
1
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:38 pm

I would prefer they do it Pre-June first. That concentrates the cap money into 2023, which will give us more freedom in 2024. Not to mention we can get 2023 draft capital for Rodgers if we do it Pre June 1.

I have been saying this over and over, and I cannot understand how anyone could rationally think otherwise: The Packers will not be contending for a championship in 2023 no matter what. Keep Rodgers, let Rodgers go, no matter what. We must enter a rebuild in 2023. 2023 should be about developing Love, the other young players, and the 2023 rookies. That will lay the foundation for 2024, when we can actually contend again.

0 points
0
0
Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:08 am

Rodgers doesn’t “own” the Bears, the Packers do. The fact that he says it, and we repeat it, is part of the problem, IMO.

14 points
14
0
RCPackerFan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:12 am

"But there is no earthly reason Rodgers should play"

I disagree with this. I know I'm in the minority and will get tons of dislikes for saying this, but Rodgers needs to play.

The reason isn't about this year. Its about next year. They need to start experiencing some success so moving forward they have something to build on. The offense has a lot of young and inexperienced players playing. They need to get as many reps together as possible. I get everyone wants to see Love. I want to see Love. But unless Rodgers is retiring he is back in GB. And Rodgers has 50+ million reasons to come back next year. So they need to get Rodgers as many reps with Watson, Doubs, Toure as possible. People keep complaining about Rodgers not participating in OTA's and whatnot, yet want him to sit now and not gain more valuable reps with these young players. Just doesn't make sense to me.

There is a very slim chance they can make the playoffs. The odds are we don't make the playoffs, and with how we have played, would we want them to be playing? No.
Its no longer about that. Its about finishing the season strong and propelling that into the offseason programs. And start building towards next year.
There will be time to get Love on the field. If Rodgers tells them that he is going to retire, then yes play Love more. But he isn't acting like a guy thats going to retire anytime soon. So he needs to keep playing.

Again. I know the dislikes will pile up. Anything pro Rodgers on this site is hated. Anything now Pro LaFleur is hated. But that doesn't matter to me. I have my opinion on things and if people disagree with them, eventually they will wake up and realize I was right. ;) (that last part is purely a joke).

-1 points
8
9
croatpackfan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:36 am

RCP I downvoted you. Because you believe many fans here are against ACR. We are not. We are for Packers. And Packers are not ACR. Doesn't matter ACR thinks that Packers are only him. ACR become the worst poison for the Packers. Like that King Louis when he said "France is me". This is not discussion about ACR vs Jordan Love. This is discussion about can Packers be better with or w/o him. And not today but in near future. I hope you understand that many posters here looks at Packers future, as ACR secured his.

0 points
3
3
RCPackerFan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:16 am

Croat - I honestly don't care who downvotes or upvotes me. I don't vote either way on anyone's, so its not a big deal to me.

Just being honest. Ever since last year with the vaccine talks and whatnot, a big portion of fans have turned against Rodgers. Just like in society if you go against the national narrative, people turn against you. I have seen it on this site.

The Packers made their decision based on what they had seen from Love the previous 2 years that their best chances of making it to the Super Bowl are with Rodgers. Now it sounds like this season in practice Love has looked much improved, and he verified that with last weeks performance. But prior to this Love did not look like a future starting QB. Right now, I highly doubt Rodgers will retire. He has to much money coming to retire. Also he can see. He has eyes and a brain. Watson and Doubs are really good and will only get better next year. He will have legit weapons to throw to next year.

They will get Love playing time. He will get some opportunity to show what he has to offer. But Rodgers playing more is about next year. Its about building a greater rapport with Watson, Doubs and Toure. So next year they will be even better.

-3 points
1
4
Return_To_Sanity's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:53 am

This isnt about the vaccine. Its about his declining play on the field and how his selfish behavior negatively affects multiple facets of this team's operation. No player should have the control over a franchise like he has and hes steering this team off a cliff. People are so afraid of life without him when in reality the dark days are already here with him still around. This team has absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain by moving onto Love.

7 points
7
0
jurp's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:00 pm

With AR's cap hit/dead money and large contracts for many other players, 2023 is largely irrelevant. AR is playing hurt and looks average at best most of the time; he needs to sit and get healthy (but I doubt that he'll allow that to happen).

2 points
2
0
jurp's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:56 pm

AR as Louis XIV: "L'équipe, c'est moi," eh, Croat :)

I actually think AR believes it, too.

2 points
2
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:55 am

I don’t think we should play Rodgers. He needs time to heal, and I see him either doin 2 things next year. Retiring or being traded. Some people may say, “oh, his contract is unfeasible to trade!” I have looked at how it works, and, yes, we would be taking on 40m of dead money, but I don’t see how that would be bad in a rebuild year. Better we take it on in a rebuild year than in a year when we are contending again, like ‘24 and ‘25. There is not a no trade clause in his contract. He will not be back in GB next year.

That is also why we should play Love. He is the future, and he is still on a cheap contract. He is ascending toward his prime, not aging out of it. We need to rebuild in ‘23 so that in ‘24, we can build a contender around him.

1 points
1
0
RCPackerFan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:19 am

I think it would be a perfect week to sit Rodgers. Let him have 2 weeks to heal and then let him resume starting after the bye.

I disagree about him not being back next year. Unless he retires.
I see no way they trade him and accrue 40 million of dead money. That would be insane. His contract is set up to play in GB or retire.

-1 points
2
3
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:43 am

I think they would do it because they will be entering a rebuild in 2023. They would get some nice draft capital in a trade. They shouldn’t be trying to contend in 2023, that would be the epitome of stupidity. I see the FO’s choice as like this:

Either:
1) Sacrifice the Packers’ slim odds of winning a SB in 2023 so that they can have dramatically larger odds of winning in ‘24 and ‘25, or
2) Try to win a SB in ‘23 with a depleted roster while further digging themselves into a deep future pit.

We should trade away our players who are aging or have big contracts (including AR) so we can relieve ourselves of the long-term cap hits and acquire premium draft capital. In ‘23, we should hopefully have lots of early round picks to lay the foundation for the next era of Packers football. 2023 should be about developing Love and the young talent and absorbing the dead cap hits that allowed us to contend in ‘20 and ‘21. That way, in 2024, we will have an incredible young group of players still on rookie contracts while having over 100mil of cap space! Then we can truly have a very good chance of contending for and winning a SB.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:12 am

There’s no greater mistake than compounding one one already shown to have been made. Some if that money is sunk. It’s gone. Bad decisions, but the smart move is to limit the damage not double down in denial. The contract allows for that. We are in cap hel, we can’t stop that unless he retires, but we can shorten the term. That comes with a post June 1 trade. Without that we are stuck till at least 2025 hoping for a draft and develop miracle and his play not declining.

3 points
6
3
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:41 pm

We could trade him pre June First. That would include 2023 draft capital in a trade. Yes, it would make 2023 hard, but it would dramatically increase our championship hopes in 2024 and 2025 since we wouldn't have to deal with his contract then.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:59 pm

I think that would make us cut some players I see as part of the future. I’m not sure we want to go that hard, but it’s worth considering. I just don’t think we can swallow that much without collateral damage.

0 points
0
0
Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:59 pm

What’s the cap in 2023-24? How about in 2024-25?

0 points
0
0
GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:01 am

I for one agree - you are looking at this the smart way...AR needs reps with the youngsters especially since they have been hurt so much. I am open to even playing AR 1st half and JL 2nd half with all other starters playing. You play each game to win and make yourself/team better for the future. do not tank the season for a better draft position either. That is a loser mentality. Play to win!!!

-3 points
2
5
RCPackerFan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:22 am

This year was just a bad year offensively with the amount of injuries we have suffered. Watson missed most of the offseason stuff. Then missed however many games in season. Doubs, Cobb, Watkins all have missed significant time. Our OL has been a mess. The offense has really struggled. Which we knew it would be a bit rough with the young players, but no one anticipated the amount of injuries. Throw in Rodgers thumb injury.

During the draft we will all wish they have tanked. But does that make for a better team next year? No I don't think so. Where ever they end up in the draft they end up. What they need is to get some positivity heading into the off season.

-1 points
1
2
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:44 am

It shouldn’t be about building the best team possible next year, because the ceiling of our 2023 roster is mediocre. It should be about building the best team possible in 2024 and 2025, when we can truly be contenders.

2 points
3
1
RCPackerFan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:23 am

I disagree about the roster next year and ability to compete. We have talent on this roster. Next year I have no clue what players will stay/go. But we still have a good core of players. The biggest thing we need is a new DC. A new DC could really change our defense around. We can all agree that our current DC has made our defense worse not better.

1 points
3
2
Return_To_Sanity's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:58 am

Yeah sure they have talent now. But whats this roster gonna look like next year when Clark, Jones, Bakhtiari, Amos, Cobb, Tonyan, Lewis, Lowry, Lazard, Crosby, and others are gone and theres very little cap space to replace them with quality starters? No more half measures. Its time for the youth movement. The salary cap demands it. They've gone as far as they're ever going to go with this core of older players. People need to accept reality.

4 points
6
2
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:42 pm

Yes! people need to Return To Sanity (pun intended)!

4 points
4
0
jurp's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:03 pm

We need a new President (or whatever title Murphy has) and a new HC and staff, not just a DC.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:11 am

If you believe that Rodgers and this cap and roster makes sense next year, then how do you explain why it’s not this year and, more importantly, can be made to next?

The stacking of success we need is from players who will be with us next year, when we have to improve with no cap.

2 points
5
3
RCPackerFan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:35 am

I don't follow what you are saying/asking.

The key for next year will be our rookies, 2nd year and 3rd year players. The emergence of those players is where our team will really take off.

On offense, that means players like Watson, Doubs, Toure, Myers will be keys. The improved play by these guys will really help make our offense better.

On defense, Clark, Gary, Smith, Enagbare, Campbell, Walker, Alexander, Douglas, Stokes are the core players. The defense will take off with improvements from Enagbare, Walker, Stokes. And also hopefully with a new DC.

-3 points
1
4
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:56 am

We see two wholly different worlds. Suffice it to say that I don’t see a materially significant change on this team sufficient to make us contenders with this leadership or Rodgers and his cap.

As I’ve said many times, the extension makes no sense and made none, and the team has shown why extremely clearly in the field. Rodgers is not part of the solution. Unfortunately his cap hit is a part of the problem. It’s over. It was at the end of last season. If Rodgers is here next year it’s going to be with this leadership, futile and push back recovery for years.

You essentially agree that you bought in to the Murphy fantasy and still remain with it. That’s why most here don’t understand your assessments or agree with your viewpoints. We see very different realities. I accept that, looking from yours, your perspective is logical. I just don’t agree that your reality is viable.

1 points
4
3
RCPackerFan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:00 am

Clearly we are living in 2 different worlds. Your World is Cold. Mine is pretty damn warm. I am currently wearing shorts and a hoodie.

The extension was made because they didn't feel Love was going to turn out to be good. that is what I take from it. And Rodgers was back to back MVPs. Had Love shown he could be the next QB sooner, I don't think they give Rodgers the extension. Last week Love for the first time since being in GB has shown us in a game that he could be the future.

I didn't buy into any fantasy. I bought into the fact that this team has been good. They have been a few injuries away to being damn good. Losing Bakhiari and Jenkins, has been a major reason why we didn't get over the hump the previous 2 years.

You don't have to agree with my reality. Just like I don't agree with yours. Nothing wrong with that.

-2 points
2
4
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:20 am

As two talking heads, no of course not. Especially as it’s clear now as to why. However, for those running the team, the consequences of not being in the right paradigm may be era defining.

2 points
3
1
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:59 am

Here are our possible outcomes:
1) Cut Rodgers. We take on 99m in dead cap money this year. Not an option.
2) Keep Rodgers. We pay him for another year.
3) Trade Rodgers. We would take on about 40m of dead money in 2023, but after than, it would be much less. The team receiving him only has to pay him 15.5m in 2023, but the cap hit goes up each of the next 3 years.
Another important factor is his option bonus. We have to decide whether to pay him a 58.6m option bonus by the start of th 2023 season. If he is traded, we don’t have to pay him that.

I think we trade him and take on the dead money because the draft capital acquired would be worth it, potentially even a first round pick if the team is desperate enough. The Jets are desperate enough, and I think they would do it.

3 points
4
1
jurp's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:06 pm

I would love to see AR traded, but I doubt that Murphy will allow it.

0 points
0
0
barutanseijin's picture

December 02, 2022 at 06:45 pm

The assumption that Rodgers gives them a better chance to win is faulty.

0 points
0
0
Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:04 pm

Better than what alternatives?

0 points
0
0
fair_weather's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:15 am

Um… Sit Rodgers starts with an S. Just saying.

3 points
3
0
Since'61's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:54 am

Sit Rodgers let him heal up, start Love this week. Go into the bye week and evaluate Love' performance with the other starters in the game. Evaluate Rodgers' health status after the bye week. If Rodger is 100% and we still have a minimal playoff shot after the BYE put Rodgers back in to start until elimination.

If Rodgers is either not healed after the bye week and/or we are eliminated stick with Love for the remainder of the season after the BYE week. Maybe it's me but I don't think this should be so hard. If the team can't figure this out the team should change their name to the Green Bay Rodgers or the Green Bay Murphys or the GreenBay "We're Not Idiots." There is precedent for the Green Bay Murphys. Paul Brown named the Cleveland Browns after himself so why not the Green Bay Murphys. Moving on... Thanks, Since '61

10 points
11
1
croatpackfan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:01 am

"GreenBay "We're Not Idiots"".

Bravo Since. Just Bravo!

Precious!

0 points
1
1
Since'61's picture

December 02, 2022 at 04:06 pm

Croat I always appreciate your feedback. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:13 am

The Green Bay Dysfunction. It sounds more modern …

3 points
4
1
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:01 am

Lol…

0 points
0
0
Since'61's picture

December 02, 2022 at 04:04 pm

Yes it does, let's go with modern! Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
T7Steve's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:37 am

The Green Bay Monarchs.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

December 03, 2022 at 08:29 am

T7 for now maybe the Green Bay Monarchy. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:01 am

Since ‘61, I always appreciate your posts, and I completely agree with you here! Thank you!

3 points
3
0
Since'61's picture

December 02, 2022 at 04:05 pm

PackyCheese I appreciate your posts as well. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
badaxed's picture

December 04, 2022 at 10:46 am

"the team should change their name to the Green Bay Rodgers or the Green Bay Murphys or the GreenBay "We're Not Idiots." There is precedent for the Green Bay Murphys."

Right now its the "Green Bay Rodgers" as he is pulling the strings on the howdy doody look alike puppet, the coaches, and everyone else in green bay's team and front office.

0 points
0
0
Packers2020's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:01 am

Look. I want to see Love play as well but do really blame AR for wanting to play?

He has had a phenominal career and this year he has been plagued with injuries, father time has hit him, and the season has not gone how anyone thought. I am sure he is frustrated and knows he may be going out in way that he never wanted to.

I played football from 7th grade to 12th grade and my last game was a playoff game. I remember that feeling still today knowing it was over. I cannot imagine knowing your career is coming to an end when you have been playing football for 25-30 years.

I get why he wants to play and honestly I don't blame him.

2 points
5
3
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:15 am

I understand why he wants to play. I don’t think that’s the issue. The issue is whether he should be played.

5 points
6
1
LeotisHarris's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:14 am

Oof, sure you can imagine it and you'll likely live it with your career. Careers end, and we deal with that event and all that comes with it.

Your perspective as an 18 year-old is hopefully different at age 39-40. For most people, it becomes less about you and more about those you love and care for. If you're still doing an Uncle Rico at 40, that's just sad.

4 points
6
2
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:15 am

I'm certain it is painful and surreal for Green Bay fans to be out of playoff contention. Younger fans likely have no experience with this new reality. Other fan bases have more experience with the frailties of their teams.

Though I deeply wish for fans to take a really good look @ the Front Office (MM/board) and its impact on the types of coaches they allow, (less capable/autonomous), mediocrity @ the GM level, lack of urgency re: player accountability, etc. IMO, there may be some tinkering around the edges off-season, Barry may go, etc., but objectively, I do not see the stomach (fans) for the seismic shift required.

It might take fans several years to address the fraudulent power structure and insist on the return of integrity. I wish it would happen this offseason but I don't think fans (share-holders) comprehend @ a deep level, how this deeply flawed 'system' is undermining the team's success.

There is a lot of finger-pointing and anger towards more peripheral targets but I don't see a wholesale comprehension of the actual problem.
There is an unfortunate passivity and lack of understanding of the inherent power a fanbase has , it just needs to be mobilized.
It really would not take that much--this is a story waiting to be told.

There are several eloquent posters who do have an understanding.

I just hate to wait several years for everyone to see the light.

I would be happy to assist but I am looking in from the outside and don't think it's my place to lead.

-5 points
4
9
Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:18 pm

Madness.

Gutekunst just got an extension a few months ago. He's not going anywhere.

I can't think of a single successful business owner who, after being successful for several years would come in to work and say, "Well, we've had a bad two months so I'm going to fire a bunch of you" and change everything about the way they did business.

The fan base's only power is they can quit going to games, or watching on TV, or buying gear. That's it. The Packers aren't going to be run by a mob of alleged fans. That's foolish to even wish for.

1. What Went Wrong?

IMO, the product on the field took a big step back in its ability to move the ball and score points. This has led to the defense being on the field more than we'd like, because the best defense is one that's not on the field.

2. Why Did It Go Wrong?

We lost Adams. We had an unsettled line for a while. Our QB has been playing with an injury. Injuries have kept Watson and Doubs off the field.

3. How Do We Fix It?

Very fixable, IMO. Trade Rodgers, Bakhtiari, and Jones. Resign Jenkins, Nijman, and Lazard. Use the draft to improve the Oline, TE, RB positions.

This stuff about acceptance of mediocrity and flawed power structure....I don't think there's any merit in that. Sorry. The Packers have one of the most successful and most stable organizational structures in the NFL.

-2 points
3
5
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:11 pm

They did have a 'stable' organizational structure while Rodgers and Adams were wowing everyone.

Who hired and will retain Gute and MLF next year ? Who will hire the next DC if and when Barry is let go?

Nothing will change next year. GB has been exposed.

It's insanity to think something will change. Rodgers may stay or he may not, Love will unlikely save the day with terrible coaching/Defense/ST's.

-4 points
1
5
croatpackfan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:39 pm

"They did have a 'stable' organizational structure while Rodgers and Adams were wowing everyone."

Packers history started at the beginning of last century. And the organization was went from excellence through turmoil years, back to rxcellence etc. Ups and downs. As everynody and everything in the life.

It is not a problem when you made wrong or bad decision, problem is when you do not recognize it and/or when you are so stubborn to change it. If you learn from your mistakes, you can even "profit" from that mistake.

ACR, Davante, Murphy, MLF, me, you, everybody here, we are just short light from fire that will at one moment stop shining and nobody will remember it. Only way to be present after your light is over is by leaving impressions on others who will remember you. Like Curly Lambeau,
Vince Lombardi, Ronald Wolf, Bart Starr, minister of the defense Reggie White, Bart Favre, Bob Harland etc, etc.

People will surely remember ACR and Davante, like they remember many good players who played for Packers through Packers long history. But their impression in peoples memory will be influenced by his level of play as well as by their personality and activity outside of playing. There is many players who was excellent for Packers and many fans remember them with warm feelings, eg BJ Raji.

So, ACR & Davante are just another 2 players that fans will be talking stories in future. They were not keep Packers stable organization. They are just 2 small stones in Packers history.

0 points
0
0
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:22 pm

Green Bay doesn't have an owner so the onus is on the shareholders (fans)
There are plenty of solutions other than stewing and preaching to the choir for the next 2 years.
-Organize
-Boycott games
-Do not buy Merch
-Send shareholder reps to a 'board' meeting with complaints (there are 3 very eloquent posters on this forum)
-Contact an attorney with expertise in contracts. (Green Bay has a contract effectively giving too much power to one person.
-Contact national media

-4 points
1
5
Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:32 pm

Specifically, which board members (other than MM) have authority to make personnel decisions? Which ones would you want to have such authority?

1 points
1
0
13TimeChamps's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:14 pm

While I admire your idealism, I'm afraid it's misplaced. This is merely a football team. For the vast majority of fans, it's entertainment for 3 hours a week. Then it's back to the real world. Careers/jobs, family, grandkids, paying the bills, etc.

This organization has been successful for decades. Rest assured, there will be no "storming the castle" after one off year.

Perspective. It's helpful.

3 points
4
1
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:23 pm

Then stop complaining about the outcome every week.

-5 points
0
5
13TimeChamps's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:32 pm

I'm not. But even if I was, that's a far cry from trying to organize some sort of coup. I think you over estimate the power of being a shareholder. It's basically a marketing strategy to help raise funds for renovations, etc. It's quite brilliant actually. But the owner of that share (I actually received one years ago as a gift) has zero input into any decision making for the organization, other than attending the annual shareholders meeting.

But, as I said before, I admire your idealism as well as your enthusiasm.

2 points
3
1
Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:33 pm

Why?

0 points
1
1
mbpacker's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:22 am

It's a tough call. I agree, resting the vets for the season to see what you have, especially Love. There is no reason 12 has to play at this point. I am sure he has his calculated reasons. However, players are playing for their jobs, putting on tape for other teams if they are not with the Pack next year. They are professionals and am sure they want to play. Part of me wants to win, the other part that the more we lose in a lost season, the higher the draft choices. GPG!

2 points
3
1
T7Steve's picture

December 02, 2022 at 09:46 am

Lose as much as you want, but we still MUST BEAT THE BEARS!!!

This is the team from Title Town. We're not going down the losing road.

Must be a lot of lucky people that don't remember the 70s & 80s. That's not an option for me.

-3 points
1
4
PackyCheese500's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:03 am

Love actually may give us a better shot at beating the Bears! I want to beat them too, but doing it against Nathan Peterman would be underwhelming, to say the least.

3 points
4
1
mbpacker's picture

December 03, 2022 at 08:27 am

Well, yeah I want to beat the Bears, but a loss this time won't sting as much.

0 points
0
0
MooPack's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:04 am

Heal up for what exactly?

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:14 am

Holiday season with the family

4 points
4
0
croatpackfan's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:41 pm

Another gem.

Gentlemen you are on fire today!

0 points
0
0
jhtobias's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:20 am

Great Article. Only problem I have is that it is written with the assumption that this organization is run by competent football people that is the mistake right there.

Murphy is the true puppet master who answers to no one
Gute: Decides who plays who stays who goes I don't blame bissaci lafluer or anyone else for the many childless blunders like Amari rodgers or Joe Berry these clowns hired them these clowns do nothing about it till it is to late.
Lafluer: While I'm sure he is a good man food offensive scheme man he is soft definitely not a leader of men and his personal decisions berry Drayton and so forth are well amazingly incompetent.
Aaron Rodgers: while he is one of the greats the power this team gave him have fractured this team to the point of no return that's on murphy and gute.

Ron wolf is laughing at these chumps .

7 points
10
3
Return_To_Sanity's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:02 pm

MLF is the one who hired Barry. They coached together in LA so he hired his buddy.

2 points
2
0
stockholder's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:16 pm

I backed Barry. We needed Lbs. And he did get Campbell and Walker. His biggest mistake is with this DL.
But It's Time to move on.

0 points
1
1
Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:35 pm

MM is accountable to the Executive Committee.

0 points
1
1
beautiful_mystery's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:23 am

Thumbzilla, hitch a ride to a more popular travel destination, we have work to do here (in season and off)

2 points
2
0
TarynsEyes's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:04 am

All that matters today and until the day comes is who in the FO has the guts to bench Rodgers one way or another. Rodgers has shown, for a while, his power, and especially recently with his dictatorial statement that he decides when he won't play, regardless of Doctor, MLF, or the FO. Whoever makes this call, needs to be ready for his head to roll if Love fails, and at the moment, none seem to have the gonads to do so.

9 points
10
1
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:17 am

The fanbase needs to have the guts to bench the Front Office.

0 points
5
5
HarryHodag's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:05 am

I detest the concept of tanking. It's as bad as gambling on your team. It's a concept easy for fans, but really dumb for professionals.

1) A high draft pick is no guarantee of success. A study found about 50% of first round picks are gone after 3 years. So 'tanking' just guarantees you lose and tell me any TRUE fan who wants to see their team lose?
2) This is professional football. The players are paid--handsomely--to do a job. Imagine if a mega corporation decided to put all of it's highest paid professionals on leave so they could put the janitors in to see how they would do? You hired the football players and you either ride or die the season with them.

3)This doesn't preclude the Packers playing the backups at times over the remaining five games. Quite honestly, with all the injuries, many of the backups have been playing a lot anyway. But standing there while your opponent runs over you is insulting to the professionals and to the fans who are paying top dollar to see quality play.

Many said the Cleveland Browns tanked to get a chance at Baker Mayfield. That worked out well, didn't it?

Winning is a combination of shrewd and affordable personnel moves, a creative and solid plan for all three phases of the game and raw physicality to take control of the game. Wimping out to possibly get a high draft pick is utter nonsense.

7 points
8
1
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 11:21 am

The Rodgers-Davante brilliance masked what is still there--mediocre coaching, poor Defense, bad ST's. (Whoops, Davante is missing!)
Cue the collapse of house of cards.

-3 points
4
7
Return_To_Sanity's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:04 pm

Davante's brilliance masked the fact that Rodgers can no longer function within the confines of a designed offense.

6 points
8
2
Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 12:36 pm

The Rodger-Adams brilliance was so great that they were able to go 6-0 without Adams.

I absolutely detest this smearing of the Packers by people who claim fandom. You're smearing guys who work their asses off. I don't think it's right.

Cue the collapse? In 2005, we finished 4-12, our worst season in 30 years. Two years later, we were in the championship game. In 2008, we had a losing season and won the Super Bowl two years later. In 2017 and 2018, we had losing seasons....and then went to the Championship game two years in a row.

We had things go wrong. The hysterical denigration of the front office, coaches, various player, etc., isn't merited.

2 points
6
4
beautiful_mystery's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:31 pm

That is a fair assessment LH. This current situation seems more muckier if you will. Many more variables coming from more directions.

One way or another, the sun will shine down on the grass of Lambeau Field.

0 points
1
1
beautiful_mystery's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:37 pm

It is way to early to guess what kind of career Love has. I just want him to have a chance to write his own story, hopefully with the Pack. For the love of God and all things holy...he better not end up on the Vikings or Lion's roster in 3 years... (I'm okay, I just woke up after that nightmare with my face planted on the keyboard with drool all over)

Being part owner of this current situation is taking it's toll! :)

1 points
2
1
Rebecca's picture

December 02, 2022 at 01:52 pm

I just want to wish #12 Aaron Rodgers a very happy 39th Birthday!

1 points
2
1
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:14 pm

Happy 39th BD, Aaron!!

-1 points
1
2
Fubared's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:20 pm

No one pays for something they can get for free. We have guys who can play or be additions to other teams that the Packers cant afford to keep, so teams arent going to trade or offer picks for when they know these guys will hit the open market for nothing.
Lets not worry though, the packers.org whole scheme was, we dont need great defensive talent, just guys who can play a prevent defense to slow the other teams down while Rogie is putting points on the board galore. Ya hows that working this year?

-1 points
0
1
Fubared's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:20 pm

No one pays for something they can get for free. We have guys who can play or be additions to other teams that the Packers cant afford to keep, so teams arent going to trade or offer picks for when they know these guys will hit the open market for nothing.
Lets not worry though, the packers.org whole scheme was, we dont need great defensive talent, just guys who can play a prevent defense to slow the other teams down while Rogie is putting points on the board galore. Ya hows that working this year?

-1 points
0
1
fangirl's picture

December 02, 2022 at 02:38 pm

It's interesting to me that most of the national sports media, many of whom don't like Rodgers, are completely aware that he has not had any reliable weapons this year. GB fans can't figure this out. Yes, Aaron Jones is wonderful but a passing game is required as well. AR has always made due during the regular season with notoriously bad ST's and Defenses, but he had reliable receivers. He has never played with a fully functional team. A team with a poor Defense and the worst ST's will never go to a SB. My main question is 'why did he remain @ GB?"

I rewatched the Eagles game and watched Myers completely miss his man, doubled up with another Packer on one Eagle while his man made a beeline for Rodgers.
Rodgers had to scramble out of tackles and ended up throwing an interception. That whole mess was on Myers.

-5 points
2
7
Leatherhead's picture

December 02, 2022 at 03:46 pm

Yes, let's smear crap on the rest of the team to make Rodgers smell better.

4 points
4
0
Oppy's picture

December 03, 2022 at 09:28 am

This is what Rodgers apologists do.
It's what Rodgers himself does.

There's nobody hard working and dedicated enough to avoid being blamed for any Rodgers shortcoming.

0 points
0
0
Birch's picture

December 02, 2022 at 10:40 pm

Myers blocked the wrong guy. AR threw to the wrong guy. Each mistake was avoidable.

1 points
1
0
Oppy's picture

December 03, 2022 at 09:26 am

The whole team really got their shit together and played their best ball to rally around Jordan Love? He looked pretty good surrounded by the same guys that were dragging Aaron Rodgers down all season.

1 points
1
0
Scott1369's picture

December 02, 2022 at 03:24 pm

If all we are worried about is draft position, why not just keep sending out a hobbled Rodgers? We have been racking up the losses just fine. A healthy Love might just screw that up by winning some games. Then again it doesn't really matter how the offense performs with that Joe Barry defensive scheme.

7 points
7
0
beautiful_mystery's picture

December 02, 2022 at 05:29 pm

We will be fine...just print the Serenity Prayer on each Packer ticket next year.

Yes, Happy Birthday #12! Now, I sure hope Finley or Jennings doesn't jump out of the BDay Cake...

Hugs & Kisses,

P-Burp

3 points
3
0
Rebecca's picture

December 02, 2022 at 08:38 pm

Happy Birthday shout-out to #33 Aaron Jones who is 28 today.

2 points
2
0
badaxed's picture

December 04, 2022 at 10:27 am

"Barry" ,Hard to believe the guy who coached 32nd,32nd, 28th and 28th ranked defenses in his first 4 years would underperform.

0 points
0
0