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Jeff Janis Wasn't "Set up to Fail"

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Jeff Janis Wasn't "Set up to Fail"

-- It was a short stint in Green Bay for Packers wide receiver Jeff Janis, as he's now headed to Cleveland to join the Browns.

The news was first reported by Good Morning Football's Peter Schrager Friday morning, announcing that Janis is the latest player with a Packer-oriented background to join the team. That's not accounting for former team executives, Eliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith, either.

Janis, a former seventh-round pick by the Packers in 2014, enjoyed a four-year stint in Green Bay where he never saw much action at his primary position -- but that wasn't because he was "set up to fail," contrary to popular belief.

Janis' tenure was more so along the lines of him playing the role of a folk hero after his breakout performance in the 2015 NFC divisional playoff game against the Arizona Cardinals. He caught seven passes for 145 yards and two touchdowns -- 101 of those yards coming on a 60-yard completion on 4th-and-20 and a 41-yard Hail Mary to send the game into overtime.

What made his uprisal in crunch time so special is the fact that he was a last resort -- and he was a last resort for a reason.

The same glaring, mechanical issues that plagued Janis coming out of Saginaw Valley State continued to weigh him down at the professional level. Had receiver Jordy Nelson not gone down with a torn ACL prior to that season, Nelson, Randall Cobb, Davante Adams, Ty Montgomery and possibly even Wisconsin's own Jared Abbrederis before Janis saw action for himself.

Outside of the star-studded performance when the Packers needed him the most, Janis has just 17 career regular season catches to his name. The "lack of opportunities" mantra is also a false one; Janis played 233 snaps on offense in 2016 and, albeit just 50 in 2017, it's fair to say the Packers had slowly begun to lose interest in Janis' development at the position as the season wore on.

He may not have been the primary target in a good majority of those reps, but if he was the dynamic receiving threat that some seem to believe he is, there'd be no problem getting him the ball.

Janis has made his money as a fantastic gunner on special teams where he's risen to prominence the last few years. He's accounted for 22 career tackles on special teams, and more often than not, Janis' 4.42 speed is enough to help him blaze downfield and surround the returner before he can even think about fielding the punt.

That straight line speed is Janis' biggest asset as a receiver -- and it's also his only asset.

According to Janis' scouting report in 2014, he was touted as someone who was "not a nuanced route runner," which has been one of the biggest phases of his game that he's worked on the last two seasons. He's shown flashes of improvement in the preseason, but not enough to momentously traject forward into regular-season success.

"Does not attack the ball in the air and will give up some break points. Not strong after the catch and will look for a soft spot. Can be fazed by traffic. Regularly faced Division II competition. Not a consistent blocker -- does not play to his size."

After his game against the Cardinals, the hype was strong around Janis -- so strong, that many fans called for Adams being benched in favor of the 236th overall pick. Instead, Janis' ascendence faced a setback in August 2016 when he fractured bones in his right hand during a ball security drill in training camp.

This led to Janis entering the season playing with a club on that hand, but it didn't impact his performance on special teams.

The resentment for Adams came after the Packers' second-round pick in 2014 played through an injury-riddled season in 2015, but still finished fourth on the team in receptions and third in targets.

Now, one of those players is in Cleveland and the other leads the league in receiving touchdowns since 2016 and is the seventh highest-paid receiver in football.

Janis wasn't a star -- he was never meant to be one. When he got a chance to play against a defense that didn't prepare to see him line up across from them, he took advantage of it. When he got a chance to run free behind the defense to catch a 60-yard do-or-die pass from Aaron Rodgers, he caught it.

That doesn't give clause to skyrocket Janis up the Packers' depth chart, just like Adams' two would-be touchdown drops against the Chicago Bears near the end of the 2016 season doesn't give a perfectly explainable reason to bench him.

__________________________

Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (124) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

MarkinMadison's picture

Four years is longer than the average NFL career. Four years was plenty long enough for him to break out. It just ain't gonna happen.

4thand1's picture

Hundley is in his fourth year. Dump em.

ShanghaiKid's picture

How ironic would it be if he went on to have a prosperous career outside GB. Though, I’m not sure if I’d be beside myself with joy or anger haha. Good luck to him either way.

kevgk's picture

Hes the perfect no name white reciever that Belichick would pick up and turn into a star

ShanghaiKid's picture

kevgk the sad part of that statement is how true it is.

OrganLeroy's picture

The sad part of that statement is you used the words"White Receiver". That tells me your a racist!

John Galt's picture

exactly

56 Packfan's picture

Good luck, Jeff!

Johnblood27's picture

Oh boy.

The usual hatchet job on any player that actually departs GB.

Janis was a great value for a 7th round project.

His ST prowess alone makes his selection and his continued roster spot a great value.

Pick on Goodson if you want to label someone as underachieving and worthless.

I also believe that Janis was Janis's own worst enemy, but close behind JJ, his second worst enemy was AR, who has zero patience for slow learners.

I will miss having JJ on the team, his hustle and speed were great ST assets and his WR options must still be labeled as incomplete.

kevgk's picture

janis was one of the best 7th round picks this team has had in years, but that is a very low bar to reach

Nick Perry's picture

Exactly... Jeff Janis ran the ball 2 times in his career in GB, both during the 2016 season. The last carry was a 19 yard TD against Seattle in week 13. You'd think McCarthy would go back to at least once, especially last season with such a dump truck playing QB. But true to McCarthy 's explainable stubbornness at times that was the LAST carry Janis would ever have in GB.

Why just why Mike?

Savage57's picture

When the Packers WR's were having so much trouble getting separation in 2015 while Jordy was out, where was Janis taking the top off the defense and dragging safety help over to him? Sitting on the bench, because he hadn't earned a spot in AR's "Circle of Trust".

Something happened that's never going to see the light of day with this kid during his time with the Packers. Three guys who all were either past GM's or are considered GM's in waiting saw enough to say there's something there GB coaches were never able to extract.

I don't think he's ever going to be a star, just a meat-and-potatoes grinder. As much as people minimize what he did in Arizona, when the Packers were down to their last out, he delivered. That's a guy with some heart along with some crazy athleticism. I'll be interested to watch what Hue Jackson and Co. can get out of him.

croatpackfan's picture

"I'll be interested to watch what Hue Jackson and Co. can get out of him."e

I agree Savage, it will be interesting, but I do not expect much. I think they pick him for their ST. He is really valuable player on gunner position...

Nick Perry's picture

I bet they'll try him on a jet sweep AND if they have success they do it again. The best way to use Janis is try to get the ball in his quickly and let him try to beat defenders with his speed.

Pauly's picture

Jeff Janis flamed out in training camp next yr. after his AZ catches when AR turned sour on Janis. Janis supposedly couldn't learn fast enough even though he had a 30 wonderlic score, one of GB highest smart scores.
Jeff's 2 catches in game 6 before his AZ game were a thing of beauty in sl-mo. He high pointed them with an athletic twist at the sideline and then was benched until the AZ game. In the AZ game, a strange sight was AR's first 2 passes to Janis he threw BEHIND Janis, the camera showed a puzzled look on AR's face like he wasn't used to his speed, then of course AR adjusted his throws.
His 2 jet sweeps of about 20 yrs each with 1 TD were amazing and even better in so-mo. A 6'3" 220 lb guy running at 4.30 speed (his warm up combine speed) with a sharp cut upfield must have been a scary sight for a DB. Compared to lot smaller and slower Cobb's jet sweeps that get stopped at the line for no gain.
I agree with some other's that MM never utilized JJ's abilities to run and stretch the deep field.. It will be interesting to see what Browns can do with him.

Minniman's picture

"Most 7th round picks are special team players or fail to make the 53"

Which is why I would prefer that the Packers bundle up some of their 7 5th-7th round picks into trades for known entities or higher draft picks

dobber's picture

True, but sometimes a 7th round pick turns into a Donald Driver.

I see 7th round picks as not being much more than being a way to your preferred UDFAs.

I'm all about good picks, and finding good talent early, but people are all over dealing away those late picks. Let's not do it frivolously: if there's such a dearth of talent on the roster, every pick is an opportunity to get better.

Nick Perry's picture

This team lacks any kind of depth at so many positions it might be wise to use ALL of those picks this year, at least round 1 through 5. After round 5 Thompson almost seemed to be throwing darts at a board to make his selections some of them were so strange.

John Kirk's picture

Say all you'd like about Jeff Janis, but there's no reason he couldn't have gotten a package of plays to utilize his speed and strength. He had rare gifts...it's just too bad he couldn't play WR.

Point Packer's picture

That's what they do in New England, John. Mike McCarthy isn't smart enough to do something as savvy as utilizing a players strengths for a particular play. Remember when Randall Cobb ran the wildcat a few times a game - always gained three yards, maybe four. Never through the pass option wrinkle in there, despite Cobb being a college QB. Simple minds simply can't process multiple options.

John Kirk's picture

With as much change as we've gotten we still have McCarthy and Murphy. That's enough to cast a large pall over our Packers.

The day MM goes will be another day of celebration. It is hard watching him and especially listening to him.

Comparing MM to what New England has is very difficult for me. Watching one guy just masterfully maximize what he has vs. a guy who does the opposite is just maddening.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

A-freaking-men, John.

ShanghaiKid's picture

I truly believe MM feels it’s beneath him to resort to jet sweeps, wrinkles, and trick plays to have to beat/confuse an opponent.

holmesmd's picture

God, the Patriot weenie riding is just nauseating...seriously. Let’s focus on the Packers here and follow the changes and hopefully, improvements to get going. This Patriot booty love is embarrassing. By the way, they aren’t that good. They play in a crap division that they win every year and dominate the vaunted dumpster fire that is the AFC, get home field through out, and often slide into the SB essentially unopposed. They got rolled in the SB after everyone genuflected at the altar of Billy & Tom going into the final game giving the Eagles “no chance”. Lol. Some here may want to post on the Patriots fan site instead of here. It’s just so lame to me I can’t stand it. Billy is an old codger of a d**k .Brady is an unsportsmanlike d**k, and they’ve been caught cheating and violating NFL rules as a team ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS. This ridiculous deference is comical IMO. SMH. Stop the man love / envy please. Tommy’s old lady is worth 500 million dollars. Ya think that may be why he doesn’t care as much about money/ contract?! He also has a gang of rings! Good for him & them but have some pride. We kicked their asses last time they came to GB and Billy was fawning over MM & his “quality across the board team”. Lol there is that.Get off the Patriot hot dog. They got rolled in the SB and “dreamy Tom” is done in 2 years. I for one look forward to it.

John Kirk's picture

Patriots aren't that good? 8 SB appearances under Brady to 1 under Favre and Rodgers over that same time. If the Pats aren't that good I shudder to think what you'd have to conclude about the Packers, and if it's "weenie riding" to tout them what level it must be to tout Green Bay. New England exists. A lot of our fans wish they didn't.

As for Janis... He had a very rare measurable combo:

Jeff Janis' exceptional prospect profile features zero metrics under the 50th-percentile. Only a handful of wide receiver prospects over the last ten years check all the boxes in such spectacular fashion.

How about Julio Jones, the premier athlete at the position? Not exactly. Jones’ College Dominator Rating checked in approximately 5-percentage points lower than Janis, and Jones’ yards per reception was under the 50th-percentile in his final season at the University of Alabama.

---There was an entire article written years ago about Janis vs. Julio as to measurables. Janis was in rare air there. Please, don't confuse this. I'm not saying Janis was better than Julio or should've been. I'm simply pointing out his athletic profile was a rarity. He had unique gifts...plus, some who thought Janis was too dumb need to realize he scored a 30 on his Wonderlic. He was a bright guy with incredible athleticism. We utilized him only when forced to. Ever seen that before?

It was ridiculous he couldn't have been utilized for a few plays throughout the season catering to his speed and strength. He rode the pine and dominated at the one thing he was given regular reps at...ST's. I'm not saying he was ever going to be a regular dominator on offense but usually when Janis got the ball great things happened. Why we never went back to that well on occasion was mystifying but in line with how we do things. I honestly believe a team like NE would've realized this kid had rare gifts and found a suitable place to deploy him on offense on occasion. That is my opinion. I hope the Browns do it so we can all see it.

dobber's picture

" I hope the Browns do it so we can all see it."

At least if he breaks out, it will be for a team the Packers likely won't have to see for another 4 years.

worztik's picture

John, Is there any way that you can “maybe” post on a topic a bit more succinctly??? I would like to read your posts but, there are only so many hours in a day when I feel like posting and I like reading other’s posts as well. (Can you say verbose???) And, while I don’t mind your opinions and such, there are those that you really annoy. I, too, get a bit long winded at times but, usually only once, seldom twice, per article! You have a tendency to write long, drawn out rants that turn me off or make me quit reading half way through your post! I’m not saying anything here to be hurtful... I’m attempting to hasten your posts to be fair to everyone!!! As I’m relatively new to this, this is the only blog (if that’s the correct term?) that I bother posting on, I may be all wet! I don’t know! I will not do any of the antisocial entities that are now in the news for some bad (extremely) policies and they really bother me!!! I like the posters here, mostly, and I seem to be followed by down votes every day! This will undoubtedly get me more! Oh well... see what you can do, buddy!!! PEACE!!!

John Kirk's picture

Not really. :)

Tundraboy's picture

"The day MM goes will be another day of celebration. It is hard watching him and especially listening to him."

He's been given another chance to save face imo. Listening to him is like listening to a lame duck. All the same he still can do some damage..

kevgk's picture

Whats the point? He was a 7th round pick that never meshed with Rodgers. If you have talent like Rodgers, every player on the field that doesnt maximize his talent is a detriment to the potential of the team. Janis needed to be replaced with someone that allows Rodgers to play his best, and lets face it, it isnt like he isnt replaceable.

CAG123's picture

What rare gifts? Okay he was fast....what else? Donald Driver set the bar for what a 7th round receiver can be in GB. He was a great gunner but that was pretty much his ceiling. Considering the fact that so many people wanted Adams booted after his 2nd year and this guy had 4 I don’t see what all the fuss is about. I mean look how well Adam Theilen has developed isn’t he a 6th or 7th round pick as well? If he had the talent it would show without having to have a specific playbook just for him. Tim Tebow is still waiting on that specialized playbook from Rex Ryan.

John Kirk's picture

See above, CAG... I responded in the wrong spot to your question.

EDIT: Every players case is unique to him. Sam Shields may never have gotten on an NFL roster had the Hurricanes not shifted him from WR to CB during his Senior season.

Our staff only does things like we desired from Janis when it's trying to get something out of a failed 1st or 2nd round pick. When a guy fails at one position they'll switch him to something else to try and salvage the pick. It's not done because someone is bright enough to realize someone is playing out of position, it's done in panic hoping against hope they may be better elsewhere. See: Mike Neal, Datone Jones, Derek Sherrod, etc.

Can anyone deny Janis made things happen when he had the ball? He made a huge play at home against the Chargers that helped win that game and on the road at Minnesota he did big things in a game I thought we'd lose but he helped us win it. He did amazing things at Arizona in the playoffs. Apparently, he wasn't consistent and lacked the finer points of the position. Ok, great...don't rely on him as a starter. However, you mean to tell me that that guy who did do some big things for us couldn't have been used better per his strengths? I don't think you can.

Comparing Driver to Janis is one of the oddest comparisons I've ever seen. The debate isn't about 7th round draft picks all time in Green Bay...it's about the loss of Jeff Janis on this roster. Who is the gunner who is better or as good now? The Packers appear worse for his departure. Maybe, we'll find someone who is the demon he was on ST's and can play 4th or 5th WR much better than he could...in that case, I'm good. Yet, it will never excuse the lack of creativity for finding ways to incorporate Jeff Janis.

Finally, I would bet anyone here who is strongly stating this is no big deal is very concerned about what happens with him in Cleveland. Visions of Hayward and Hyde making the pro bowl after their departures has to make you just a little uneasy with these proclamations that Janis was junk and good riddance?

CAG123's picture

It’s not good riddance he was trash anyway I just don’t see this “The sky is falling” approach others seem to have. The DD comparison is to show that despite being a 7th rounder he had the talent and feel for the position that’s why I also put Adam Theilen in there as well neither one of those guys needed some weapon X type playbook to get going. JJ isn’t Tyreek Hill with gifts so rare you WANT different ways to get him involved he was a big guy that played small with speed. As for his contributions on special teams they were appreciated and he was great but hasn’t the Packers special teams unit been middle of the pack average anyway? They didn’t implode when Jarrett Bush left and they’ll make it without JJ. The Packers have seen better offensive players than him leave and become mediocre. If anything the comparisons between Janis, Hyde, and Hayward are bizarre seeing as those guys were better at their positions than he was with Hayward being a top 5 slot CB while in GB and Hyde being so versatile. The Packers will be fine I’m more concerned with the loss of Randall.

John Kirk's picture

I wasn't comparing Janis to Hyde or Hayward... I just stated that those who are basically trashing him as no big loss have to be concerned deep down he has some career resurgence in Cleveland which would make their opinion now look foolish in the future.

With Janis as good as he was on ST's we were middle of the road. How do you think we'll be taking away our best there? Better? Janis was better than Bush on ST's.

The sky is not falling. Nobody has implied that. Again, the most pertinent part of this debate is... Are the Packers a better football team with or without Jeff Janis? It's a simple Y or N?

CAG123's picture

The Packers ST unit didn’t get any better because of JJ there were ranked in the late to mid twenties before him and still hold a somewhat similar position with him.

4thand1's picture

OH SHIT, the season is in the crapper now.(JK) The one thing it will do is force Zook to replace him with some as good? Zook may be searching a while, JJ was a ST's beast.

Spock's picture

4thand1, I was ambivalent on your comment so I gave the 0.5 like and 0.5 dislike on this!

Happy April Fools Day, lol. :)

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

How do we know?

Hyde was set up to fail in Green Bay.
Hayward was set up to fail in Green Bay.
Peppers exploded after leaving Green Bay.
Cook was all-world after leaving Green Bay (though at least he played well with the Packers).
Jon Ryan booted the ball out of stadiums after leaving Green Bay.
Cleveland jumped at the chance to grab Randall.
New Orleans pounced on Taysom Hill.
Josh Jones was destroyed in deep coverage after excelling near the line of scrimmage.
Biegel looked lost. So did Ha Ha. Trevor Davis caught everything and showed speed, but looked lost in our dimwitted schemes as well. Aaron Jones hardly played while averaging far more yards/carry than Williams.

And Richard Rodgers...ACTUALLY PLAYED. My goodness, putting him out there guaranteed the defense would stack coverage up close while laughing at his blocking--he was the ultimate offense killer.

For all we know, Janis was used poorly in our scheme. Or maybe he's worthless...

...BUT HOW CAN ANYONE TELL WITH MCCARTHY DECIDING HOW TO USE PLAYERS???

holmesmd's picture

Why don’t you apply for the job? Hilarious! Lol. I’m sure you would be better.;)

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

No, how about we get a better coach for the job? One who uses players for their talents?

And while you're lol-ing, notice how every point I made was, you know, true...

WKUPackFan's picture

Please explain how claiming that Hayward and Hyde were "set up for failure" is a true fact instead of an opinion.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Hyde was used in the slot and on boundary rather than as a pure safety. Buffalo immediately proclaimed him a safety, and he flourished.

Hayward was bounced inside and out, while San Diego put him on an island with more press cover, better utilizing his skills.

Do you honestly think it's some sort of great coincidence these players exploded into pro bowlers the moment they left? By all means, WKU, feel free to explain why they instantly became far, far better players after leaving.

Go ahead and explain how that happened without poor coaching here--the kind of poor coaching that led to all the firings.

Go ahead and give your explanations. I'll wait.

WKUPackFan's picture

Hyde played well simply because "Buffalo immediately proclaimed him a safety"? Wow, I didn't know that preseason proclamations could do so much. Maybe the Packers should immediately proclaim Bakhtiari a quarterback. He'd be better than AR.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Dumbest comment of the year. Seriously, you win the award.

Rather than bouncing him all over in spots where he was ill-suited, Buffalo committed to placing his skills in the best spot. It worked.

Now, I'm STILL waiting for you to explain why he and Hayward exploded into pro bowlers the moment they left, and how that doesn't reflect poorly on the coaching in Green Bay...

...coaching that was finally fired, by the way.

Still waiting for that answer, WKU...

Finwiz's picture

Agree completely with your 1st sentence.

worztik's picture

As do I...

worztik's picture

They were set up to fail by being played at positions that were not their best fits!!! Just like Randall being played at CB instead of Safety!!! Hyde being played at CB instead of Safety and Hayward being used in the slot and not on the perimeter!!! Not really too hard to understand unless you’re a NO MIND HILLBILLY... but, I digress and stoop too low in your case WKU!!! I’m really better than this but, WOW, did you rub me wrong these last two days... just movin’’ forward now...

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Still waiting on that explanation, WKU.

WKUPackFan's picture

See above.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

That was no answer. Still waiting, WKU...

Chuck Farley's picture

hell i say Mathews was set up for failure too. I always thought size and speed wise he reminded me of Urlacher and yet I thought we wasted away his talent pass rushing. Yes he did well as a pass rusher, when Jenkins was chasing the QB into Mathews arms. He was also handled a lot by O linemen too.
I saw him wreaking havoc in the middle and covering, rushing up the middle, making tackles. To me IMO it was a waste of his talent as pass rusher when they could have drafted an Edge guy for that job.

I think the point missing is we used people in places where there skill set didnt quite fit right and they struggled. Other teams picked them up put them where they belonged and they succedded. The truth has to be there somewhere because many did succeed.

worztik's picture

What’s wrong with having an opinion, wku??? You seem to have had WAY TOO MANY over the past few days!!! All ridiculous as this one!!! Why don’t you say something meaningful, like Janis had his chance and failed, or just shutta yo’ mout’ boi???

dobber's picture

Not worth it...withdrawn

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I'm surprised this doesn't have dozens of likes. Great comment, so I am taking the advice.

holmesmd's picture

I think your subjective description of how players have done after their time in GB is debatable in some instances. I do agree that we must be better at retaining our own developed players and using them appropriately so that they can be successful. We can agree on that point for sure.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Well, I cited a lot of players, so I'm sure some are debatable. My larger point is the disturbing trend over the past few years of this coaching staff--a trend of poor player usage.

I personally never liked Janis's route-running, but it's hard to draw any "wasn't set up to fail" conclusions, given the struggles of this coaching staff.

OrganLeroy's picture

Just another clueless ranting fan with soooo many alternate facts.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Alternate facts? Everything I wrote was true.

WKUPackFan's picture

Kirk constantly agrees with Andrew Lloyd Peth. That's all we need to know about the value of Peth's opinions.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Constantly? To my knowledge, I've hardly seen him before this thread. I hardly recall us interacting before. I'm sure it's happened at some point in thousands of posts over the years, but we have no big history.

When you start making things up, WKUPackFan, that's all we need to know about the value of your opinions.

You really have a chip on your shoulder, you know that? Get some help. Can I recommend you find a cry room, or perhaps a good drum circle? I'm sure some professionals can help you with all those scary people out there who don't support every decision by every coach.

WKUPackFan's picture

You may want to review some previous comment threads. Kirk constantly cites "ALP" in glowing terms, and has directly replied to you many times. Of course, you already knew that.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Actually, I don't know that at all. You're pulling stuff out of your you-know-what.

Why don't you just admit you're a coach kiss-up who can't handle how some critics like me were right all along, and a GM and two Coordinators had to be canned for doing terrible jobs?

Instead, you cry and whine when a couple people agree about bad coaching on a thread.

Dude, get a life. Some people disagree with your "coach is always right" butt-sniffing. Some of them even agree with each other. It happens.

It's a big, scary world out here, WKU. How about you retreat to your safe space, and have some quality time with your shrink?

WKUPackFan's picture

And it strains credibility to say that you have "hardly seen [Kirk] before this thread". He regurgitates approximately 100,000 words here daily. He's difficult to miss.

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

The main guys I see are Stockholder and Nick Pery and Tarynfort, along with a few others.

But you're right to be concerned. There's something sinister going on here...something evangelical...

Johnblood27's picture

Thank God that exchange seems to have died...

Winner... ALP by TKO!

worztik's picture

WKU... you are an As....e!!! I can’t help myself!!! Go away!!! The faster the better!!! ALP hit many high notes here... what have you spouted except your HATE for Ramblin’ John??? Go away... go to hell... or at the very least “SHUT UP”... your “OPINIONS” suck!!!!!!!!!!!

Pauly's picture

Jeff Janis flamed out in training camp next yr. after his AZ catches when AR turned sour on Janis. Janis supposedly couldn't learn fast enough even though he had a 30 wonderlic score, one of GB highest smart scores.
Jeff's 2 catches in game 6 before his AZ game were a thing of beauty in sl-mo. He high pointed them with an athletic twist at the sideline and then was benched until the AZ game. In the AZ game, a strange sight was AR's first 2 passes to Janis he threw BEHIND Janis, the camera showed a puzzled look on AR's face like he wasn't used to his speed, then of course AR adjusted his throws.
His 2 jet sweeps of about 20 yrs each with 1 TD were amazing and even better in so-mo. A 6'3" 220 lb guy running at 4.30 speed (his warm up combine speed) with a sharp cut upfield must have been a scary sight for a DB. Compared to lot smaller and slower Cobb's jet sweeps that get stopped at the line for no gain.
I agree with some other's that MM never utilized JJ's abilities to run and stretch the deep field.. It will be interesting to see what Browns can do with him.

John Kirk's picture

ALP...you give me hope in our fanbase. You really do. You and some others as well.

Mike McCarthy also stubbornly and ridiculously stood by Dom Capers year after year with failure after failure. How can anyone trust a word he says about anyone or anything? He once referred to Janis as an ascending player.

Hopefully, Philbin will balance out MM and we won't see what we've seen over the years since he left. MM left to his own devices is downright scary.

fastmoving's picture

you two really the hope of our fanbase! enlighten us. who needs AR or coaches or smart and good players if we have self-appointed heros like you. giant self-esteem can be an assett.....I just dont know for what.....

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

Self-appointed heroes? All we're doing is commenting on how the team has been run--like everyone else here--and you lament our "giant self-esteem."

fastmoving, methinks you have some of your own esteem issues to work out. I've never needed counseling, but maybe I can find someone for you online. You can do some scream therapy in a safe room, while sobbing about people with "giant self-esteem."

There, there, fastmoving...you're making real progress here...no, I don't know why no one visits...

worztik's picture

Learn how to write Mr. Fast Mover going no where... have you ever heard the term, “PROOF READ”??? YOU MAKE NO SENSE as you “didn’t yesterday” when you demonstrated your total ignorance of all things imaginable!!! Time to hear something from you regarding the Packers that actually makes sense! You are an inappropriate and boring dudette... so sad!!!!!!

fastmoving's picture

Cant mess with the 3 college boys here.......
nobody can.............
but if you can see any sense that does not mean there is none.......I guess most of the time its quite the opposite.

but at least your posts are smart. so its a waste of time and most of us have a life.

keep up your funny words

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

John, It's never a good sign when the entire fanbase has to beg, plead, and demand a coach into finally doing the right thing.

That's never, ever a good sign.

hanked's picture

I liked the potential of JJ but he is a body catcher & just did not snatch the ball with his hands. I'll miss his special team work.

HankScorpio's picture

The clearing of the dead weight on the bottom of the roster continues.

Samson's picture

Jeff Janis = JAG with a little speed.

Ustabeayooper's picture

It makes little difference where or if you are drafted. The proof is in the pudding. Your value is determined on the field . JJ was a 7th rounder from a D2 school. He played well enough to last 4 years in GB and sign a contract with Cleveland. He is a role player on ST no more, no less. Every team has players like this. A few jump up and become starters. Most do not. Every year we have pre season all pros hyped by the media because they have to write something. It's the same thing about Free Agency and the draft. Every team has personnel moves that look bad using 20/20 hindsight 2 or 3 years down the road. If JJ becomes the next Jerry Rice or Donald Driver, so be it

jww061356's picture

I made the mistake of hoping that Janis would blossom into something more after the Arizona game, but the reality was, he was a terrible route runner with only average hands. Great ST gunner, but that's all he ever amounted to. If Cleveland makes him into someone that makes a difference anywhere but on ST, then I think that indicates it is coaching. I do think it is telling that we have recently had a spate of players leaving and having much better success somewhere else. But I also think it is a bit of a one sided argument: we have had just as many, if not more players go elsewhere and completely drop off the map. The nature of that kind of performance, of course, is that we never hear anything because they disappear professionally. I think McCarthys blind spot is that he is not in tune with his players individually(below star level) like some other coaches, but arrogantly tries to impose his will with his scheme, instead of creating more situations where they can play to their strengths and get matchup advantages. The most recent example would be Doug Pederson. It looked like he was moving the chess pieces around pretty effectively against the Patriots, and it was fun to watch. Wish MM would take a page from that. The good news is, I think Philbin will do a much better job of that.

CAG123's picture

Well he made Jarret Boykin look like something for a little bit lol

Johnblood27's picture

All of this analysis of JJ as a poor receiver but ST maven is hind-sight almost accurate.

Player development is more than a 2 way street, there is player talent and drive, there is coaching and teaching but there is also the teamwork aspect of football layered with player to player associations as well as coaching scheme adaptations.

Complex, not simple.

JJ spent his formative pro year without a WR coach. Do any of you remember MM's brilliant move that year? No WR coach. Think about that for a minute. What other team have you ever heard of in modern football has done that to their young receivers? Only one.

MM is a moron.

There, I got that out.

I have NEVER liked his selection as coach. His stubbornness in scheme as well as his blind loyalty with no accountability for coaches should have doomed him in the purge. Instead we now see MM without TT muzzling him having diarrhea of the mouth and proving his stupidity every media opportunity.

There, I got that out.

This has been great therapy! No crying room needed,

No puppies were harmed in this post.

Johnblood27's picture

Obviously I need to get that cleaned up.

worztik's picture

You’re right on bloody27!!!

Johnblood27's picture

I will check my pad level.

Thebearsstillsuck's picture

Johnblood27 is a good poster. Great fundamentals. Highly successful blah blah blah, coach him up blah blah blah,

Chuck Farley's picture

JJ failed in practice mostly. When he was supposed to zig he zagged and drove Rodgers nuts. Janis just couldnt get that playbook and assignments down.

If it wasnt for them liking his usefulness on ST, he would have been gone a couple years ago.

worztik's picture

Yes!!!

worztik's picture

How much value can be placed on a ST gunner? Hard to say but, we’ll see soon enough. With all of the talk about eliminating kickoffs and the like and with all of the penalties on the receiving team, maybe it’s not going to be as important of a position as it seems to be currently! Only time will tell. I wish him well but, I’m not gonna miss him one bit....

croatpackfan's picture

Wow!

Mike McCarthy is the next one...

After that will be Mark Murphy...

And Brian will follow Mark...

After you change everyone (I hope young Elliot will come back as GM by your wishes!) and ruin franchire for another 20 years I hope all of you will be happy...

Before attacks me you take in consideration that I was not against change. Change is good. When it is made with logic and temperance. If you are doing change in fury, without proper analysis, you'll got worse result from where you start...

And this discussion was about 7th round player... Mike McCarthy is marked as failure because he was not using 7th round choice, who prove he do not understand how to running WR routes properly. Mike McCarthy is guilty because he did not adapt his Offensive playbook to 7th round player!

Do you really believe Bill Belichik rearrange his playbook for player of that level. BRAVO!

You believe and expect from HC to use Packers resources, other players time and skills to put 7th round pick in position to do something well, otherwise that player is not capable for playing well?

Expecting from any HC to play one player more often, when that player can do just one play (fast running around the ofensive line) and nothing else is ridiculous and stupid. Every opponent D would be prepared for that play at the moment Janis will be on the field.

Oh, how is easy to be "smart" from your couch.

Tundraboy's picture

Defend MM all you want but his use of the roster is not defensible. He is way overated as a coach.

John Kirk's picture

It's just as easy to be "dumb from the sidelines".

Nobody is saying MM is a bad coach because Janis went to Cleveland.

I've stated several times why I feel MM is not a good HC and that was long before Janis was onto Cleveland.

The key question is this one:

Are the Packers a better team with or without Jeff Janis?

If he's the bottom of your roster, you don't need to be looking for a replacement at the bottom of your roster.

As to the idea that Janis would be worthless because everyone would know he was getting the ball if he was on the field? No. If Janis was on the field you could...

1) Give it to him on an end around
2) Fake an end around
3) Do a double reverse
4) Just run a normal play using the threat of Janis on an end around
5) Throw him a slant
6) Throw him a 9 route

...and many many more...

There are a myriad of ways to incorporate Janis and his speed/strength over the D knowing everytime he's out there he's going on an end around. That is almost what we're railing against...the simplistic ways of viewing things when there are untold numbers of ways to do things.

As much as I felt Janis should've been utilized on offense in small doses, losing him on ST's is a huge issue. He was one of the best. Who is replacing him who is on the roster that you feel will be as good or better?

Janis is a net loss to this team as a bottom dweller on our roster. I'm not sure there's any other conclusion there but I'd like to hear from someone who can detail why losing him is a good thing or non issue.

Tundraboy's picture

No it's not a good thing. Basically wasted a roster spot for at least 3 years . At some point Ted either had to ask why he wasn't playing more or MM had to say get me someone who can play.

Tundraboy's picture

If Goodson breaks camp I'll be beside myself.

croatpackfan's picture

Again, no answer on my questions...

Do you REALLY EXPECT from any HC to ADAPT PLAYBOOK to 7th rounder?

Do you REALLY EXPECT from any HC to ADAPT your BEST EVER QB to 7th rounder?

Do you REALLY EXPECT from any HC to ADAPT other 10 and more mil $ WR to 7th rounder?

Also, who cares what you said last year, 5 years ago, 10 years ago. Telling during 10 years 20 different assessments and than pick one claiming that one was and is right (well, it is not decided yet if MM is failure or not) means nothing. Even blind chicken find grains sometimes. It certainly is not proof of your credibility and knowledge.

I'm here more than 5 years and I read a lot of articles, posts. opinions etc. What I learned (among other things) is that many commentators act impatiently and very often are led by, for the moment popular "opinion".
The best example is assesment made on Davante Adams after 2016. Many of you here wants him out...

Also, I noticed that many of you (including you, John) are willing to make assesments of somebodies work and knowledge without even knowing what is the the job that person do. Those kind of assesments are very often driven by how you (not you personally) see and believe what the job of that person is.

Sorry, I tried to be constructive here. I tried to avoid any kind of offensive language. Please, understand that English is my second language and I may make mistake without real intention to offend any of you.

John Kirk's picture

Nobody expected the playbook to be adapted to Jeff Janis. That doesn't mean you can't and shouldn't realize this guy is fast. Davante Adams called him "V-12" due to his speed. Janis was a world class athlete. I don't care if he came in the 1st, 7th or as an UDFA... if a guy has a set of measurables that translate to a football field...USE THEM. He could run like the wind and had strength to go with it. A package of plays for him doesn't require adapting a playbook...it requires the sense to see you have someone who can do specific things very well. Davante Adams isn't a guy you throw a nine route to consistently or send on an end around because that's not his skill set. It WAS Janis' skill set, so use him there. When is the last time we saw an end around in the playbook? James Lofton was great at those back in the day. Janis could fly... Who could forget the pre-season return where the camera panned back and you can read MM's lips... "Whoa!". Yeah, buddy...there was something there with Janis that wasn't with any of our other guys. Yes, Jordy and others were far better receivers but they didn't have what Janis had in certain areas.

Not sure where you're getting 10 million figure for Janis? His contract is still not public. I doubt it's very much and nowhere near 10 million a season.

I agree with you that many are led by popular opinion. I shun that unless that's honestly how I feel. I was not an Adams fan back when we drafted him, or now, but that had nothing to do with anyone's opinion but my own.

What job do you think I don't understand Croat? Where do you feel I've judged someone without knowing their job? My assessments of players, coaches often lie in my perception of them as people. Would I want to work for them...could they motivate me...would I respect them other than for the fact of their title? Do I agree with the decisions they make during a game, or with the comments they give pre and post game?

To answer all your questions...YES...I expect a HC to get the most out of EVERY player he has and it doesn't matter what round or if street FA...maximize your players gifts and use them. I don't think that's an out there request. I think that's a common sense request.

croatpackfan's picture

"What job do you think I don't understand Croat? Where do you feel I've judged someone without knowing their job? My assessments of players, coaches often lie in my perception of them as people."

You can not hold someone responsible for a job that is not in his job description. What are the reasons you have coordinators and position coaches? Why you have them if all the decision are made just by you (as HC) and what you know, without consulting with your coaches.

Also, you can assess person "as people" only if you know them. You can not make that assessments based on few information you get through media, because media very often distorts what someone said, trying to make more "explosive" news. Also, when you are listening madia conferences, you have to understand that answers you hear are hard driven by questions produced by media who wants to produce controversy.

We can only discuss and assess someone by data we have. The most data we have is not about their personality, but about their job result. And that is not what you like to use. Because that data ruins your hypothesis how bad Mike McCarthy is. So, from professional you are trying to place the focal point on person - personal field. With very few data you have...

So, you do not know what HC is doing, but you assess Mike McCarthy as failure.

And regarding use of any player in game. I would like to inform you that before any game, team are putting together their GAME PLAN. For the offense, as well as for the defense. We are now talking about 7th rounder, WR, so who is in the room when that game plan is making - by press information we knows that game plan for offense is made by HC, OC, all QBs, QB coach and either DC or somebody from the D side of the ball. Game plan, made by that "committee" is what we see executing during the games. The game plan is putting together based on film analisys of the opponent.

So, it was obvious that we were not happy how Packers offense did. Obviously Mike McCarthy thought that the team he assembled for the last season was not good. And he made changes. Now, you assess that Bennett and Van Pelt was OK, but MM was not giving them enough room to express their opinions and they did not have substantial influence on the Packers planing and execution? Why they stay with Packers than? Remember Green? He left organization and buzz was he was not satisfied with Dom Capers and his inluence on D plans for games... That is how you take your responsibility. Not whining around how MM is stubborn.

So, when you assess someone's proffessional success, do not assess that as people. Asses their proffessional results. That is how that should be done.

"Not sure where you're getting 10 million figure for Janis?... "

I was talking about 2 (3) WR with salary more than 10 mil $ per year (names are Jordy, Randall and,and later, Davante!) and I asked you do you think that you'll adapt those player to just one skill player and waste their potential. But you are so in love with Jeff janis, that you can not see anyone else...

That is how it is. Football is team sport. And you should play football as team sport, not as one man show, especially not as one skill set player show...

And, by the way, did you noticed that all top QBs throws ball before receivers is even on his position? That is why running correct routes is important. That is how we have "wow" moments when we are blessed to see completions through smallest windows (Aaron excells in that kind of throws!).

So, you have 7th round guy with one f**king skill and you want to spent valuable practice time just to put that player on the field? I said earlier and I will repeat my question - if that is so simple, why not pay Usain Bolt to play for you. He is known as fastest man on the earth. There will be no defence against him. Just give him the ball...

WKUPackFan's picture

So we are now reduced to reading lips as a part of player assessment? Basing assessments of players and coaches on your "perception" of them as people? By all means, let us judge these folks on your interpretation of a few snippets of pre and post game comments or news conferences.

How about some judgment on something more tangible, written words. Take the example of someone above who claims that Jeff Janis is a better athlete than Julio Jones. The same someone who, just a few days ago, personally attacked another poster under the manufactured narrative that the other poster had said Davante Adams was better than Julio Jones. I judge that...hypocritical.

John Kirk's picture

I posted a snip from a site that compared their athleticism. You're mad at recorded measures of athleticism not me. BTW, comparing measurables and what type of players is so different but you know that already.

What is true irony is a response that tells me how wrong it is to say a HC is bad because I don't know their job well enough but those same people offer praise from the same or lower level than I'm offering opinion from. Better never say MM, Ted, or even Rodgers is great. You don't know their job well enough to comment with knowledge. Again, here we are with self appointed defenders of all things Packers saying why it's wrong to be critical while they dole out praise willy nilly. It's gold.

Pauly's picture

Jeff Janis flamed out in training camp next yr. after his AZ catches when AR turned sour on Janis. Janis supposedly couldn't learn fast enough even though he had a 30 wonderlic score, one of GB highest smart scores.
Jeff's 2 catches in game 6 before his AZ game were a thing of beauty in sl-mo. He high pointed them with an athletic twist at the sideline and then was benched until the AZ game. In the AZ game, a strange sight was AR's first 2 passes to Janis he threw BEHIND Janis, the camera showed a puzzled look on AR's face like he wasn't used to his speed, then of course AR adjusted his throws.
His 2 jet sweeps of about 20 yrs each with 1 TD were amazing and even better in so-mo. A 6'3" 220 lb guy running at 4.30 speed (his warm up combine speed) with a sharp cut upfield must have been a scary sight for a DB. Compared to lot smaller and slower Cobb's jet sweeps that get stopped at the line for no gain.
I agree with some other's that MM never utilized JJ's abilities to run and stretch the deep field.. It will be interesting to see what Browns can do with him.

Finwiz's picture

"In the AZ game, a strange sight was AR's first 2 passes to Janis he threw BEHIND Janis, the camera showed a puzzled look on AR's face like he wasn't used to his speed, then of course AR adjusted his throws."

You misunderstood what happened apparently (millennial?), most likely those were back shoulder throws that Janis either DIDN'T pickup an audible, or DIDN'T KNOW THE PLAYS! That was the problem, the guy didn't study the play book. Bad work ethic or too stupid, one or the other.

AR practiced with him enough that he knew his speed and how to throw a timing route. He's gone now, you don't have to make excuses for him.

dobber's picture

These days I get up in the morning, listen to my joints creak, and wish I could call myself a millennial...

4thand1's picture

They weren't back shoulder throws, they were hail Marys, low percentage throws. Only AR has the arm strength to get the ball high and deep. The TD he had guys in his face falling backwards. No one has time to think just react. JJ reacted the way he was supposed to, high point the ball and catch it.

worztik's picture

So you were in the Military? How long and what branch?

flackcatcher's picture

Sorry, didn't see your question till now. I'm about to pull the pin. It's a long story, but I was recalled after my retirement. Critical needs good of the service etc. etc. Marine. 0311 and beyond. (If I don't get out now, my wife will kill me........0:)

flackcatcher's picture

Know how you feel. Too many years carrying 170 pound rucks....

4thand1's picture

What's a ruck?

flackcatcher's picture

Slang term for rucksack. Think of it as a large and very ugly backpack with metal supports. Look at any TV video over the past 20 years with army and marines marching in full gear, that is the thing on their back. The slang term for marching your ruck is humping. Because we are literally bent over moving with all that weight on our backs.

Spock's picture

dobber, Well, you can still "call" yourself a millennial, lol. It's a strange world we live in where our noses can run and feet can smell.

Spock's picture

Edit, I meant to put in the old adage about, "I used to have a spring in my step, but now I've got a creak in my back." But I realized that the homonym "creek" and "creak" works better as a verbal joke. Then I got distracted and came back and wrote the last line. I shouldn't "let my mind wander. It's too small to go out by itself." lol.

worztik's picture

Me too, Dob... to be 40 years younger and still as grumpy would be great... just sayin’...

dobber's picture

Still as grumpy? Man, I'm a peach compared to 20-year-old me... ;)

Pauly's picture

Sorry, the first throw was in the 3-4 yds behind and the 2nd was closer but still uncatchable behind. If you are right, then Janis was supposed to run curl rts to catch the pass instead of up the sideline.
A Packers fan since 1955.

WKUPackFan's picture

Finwiz says - "most likely those were back shoulder throws..."

Most likely? Nice job of commenting on plays you admit to not even watching.

Equally nice job of critizing Janis's intelligence and work ethic, subjects for which you lack any first-hand knowledge. Please tell us the factual basis for your claim that "the guy didn't study the playbook". Apparently you were right there personally observing Janis's activities during his time with the Packers.

PatrickGB's picture

I agree that MM is stubborn. That can be good as well as bad. I hope Philbin helps MM get out of what looks like a playcalling rut. JJ is part of the third phase of the game, ST. I even preferred him over Davis on returns but that took him out of blocking on returns.
It is what it is. GBP's have moved on.
For good or ill, I expect that this years team will be nothing like it has been in the past.

tm_inter's picture

I always loved JJ and felt that he was under-utilized and under-appreciated at Green Bay. I wish him better luck elsewhere and will continue to root for his success.

Lare's picture

If nothing else, this pretty much shows that Gutekunst has to make a player signing really soon. 100 comments from fans on a thread about a special teams player signing with another team indicates the natives are restless.

Spock's picture

Lare, agreed. Of course if the natives were stainless steel androids we'd have to change the saying to, "The natives are rust less." :)

flackcatcher's picture

Yup. Not use to being out of the playoffs so early.

flackcatcher's picture

To be serious for a moment. Jeff Janis did not fit in as a WR in Green Bay. We can debate all we want, but that was the judgement of the Packers GM who made the call. Jeff Janis was an outstanding special teams player for the Green Bay Packers over the course of his career in Green Bay. How good. Over the course of 2014-2016 he tilted the field in GB favor, other teams put two, sometimes three players on both punt and kick returns to shut him down. He played at a pro bowl level and was a large reason why GB ST play rose overall. For a 7st rounder, he out played his value. A very good pick by former GM Ted Thompson. I hope he does well in Cleveland.

Red Foreman's picture

Billy Schroeder > Jeff Janis

marpag1's picture

LOL!!!

There are more than FIVE TIMES as many comments in this thread as Jeff Janis had receptions in his entire 4 year "career."

There are more than FORTY TIMES as many comments in this thread as Jeff Janis had touchdowns in his entire 4 year "career."

The total number of receiving yards gained by Jeff Janis in his entire 4 year "career" is LESS THAN THREE TIMES the number of posts in this thread.

OH, DAMN..... WHAT IF HE LIGHTS IT UP NOW THAT HE'S IN CLEVELAND??

HAHAHAHA

JDK52's picture

Literally the best comment here.

xeto's picture

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Johnblood27's picture

Jeff Janis takes this^^^

John Kirk's picture

Janis got a one year 1.25 million contract from CLE. He was worth that to us strictly as a ST guy.

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