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How Close Are Packers To Another Super Bowl?

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How Close Are Packers To Another Super Bowl?

Just over 20 years removed from the Green Bay Packers winning Super Bowl XXXI and six years since their last in 2010, the team is looking ahead to 2017.  Every year it seems Green Bay is in the conversation as a favorite to get to and win another championship.  They have a stable front office, long-standing head coach and, of course, Aaron Rodgers at quarterback.  But how close is this Packers team to reaching another Super Bowl?

Whether you're one who still believes that "defense wins championships" or that teams just need to score 40 points per game, are the Packers ready to be that team?  And if so, are they ready now or are they still a ways off?  Some take the approach that as long as Rodgers is under center, the Packers can beat any team and should be among the best in the league.  This past season may have poked a hole in that approach, as the defense was a complete letdown in Atlanta in the NFC championship game.  On the flip side, Rodgers is the type of quarterback who can get productivity out of average receivers and turn the good ones into stars.  

On the defensive side, do the Packer have enough of the type of players it seems to take to win a championship?  I'm talking about dogs.  Mike Daniels, Datone Jones, Letroy Guion, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix for example.  Guys who bring some extra attitude to the field with them.  That bring a mentality that they're going to play the role of the school yard bully every game.  If you ask me, Green Bay has a nice start to building that type of defense but they need another dog or two.  It would help if one were a linebacker and another were a cornerback.  Last season when Sam Shields, I knew the corner position would be up against it all season trying to get by with very young players still trying to learn and also make a jump between year one and two.  It's going to be tough for this Packers team to take steps forward defensively sticking with the same guys.  This is also an area where I think the Packers need to open up the check book for.

We know that Green Bay has a good stable of young players who have room to grow and that can contribute.  How much belief do you have in this current coaching staff to coach those guys up and get the most out of them?  Do more changes need to be made in that area?  We also know that the team has salary cap space and should be able to keep the guys they want and add a few more as well.  So, simple question: how close are the Packers and what do they need to get to and win another Super Bowl?  That quest begins today now that every team is 0-0 once again.

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Jason is a freelance writer on staff since 2012 and also co-hosts Pulse of the Pack podcast.  You can follow him on Twitter here

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RCPackerFan's picture

How close are the Packers to Another Super Bowl?

Very Close!
I know many will not like this but the truth is the Packers are very close.

Super Bowls are almost always won with Great QB's. Unless the defense is out of this world good, you have to have a great QB or great QB play to win it all.

Watching the game last night reminded me a lot of the NFC Championship game. Packers simply ran out of healthy bodies to make a comeback attempt. I would have loved to have seen what the game could have been if they had a healthy Nelson, Adams, Allison, Montgomery.

Simply being healthy this team is a hell of a lot better.

A few take away's from the game last night, that I would like to see the Packers take away from the game.
The speed of the LB's. Falcons LB's are really fast and cover a lot of ground. Packers need more speed at ILB.
Fast, shifty RB's who can catch passes. Montgomery provided a threat as a receiving RB out of the backfield. They should also look to add another RB who can catch passes out of the backfield. James White could have been the MVP was a mismatch.

Bearmeat's picture

RC, dude. This team is NEVER healthy. 2014 is the only year in MMs entire tenure they've been healthy. Just resign yourself to average or worse injuries every year and you won't be let down. That's not to say that you can't win with injuries - you just need to have depth to do so. For proof of that - New England just won it all without their best player! The fact is that Green Bay doesn't have that needed quality depth because the front office is so concerned with bringing along the young guys every year that they lose the view of the forest for one tree.

Beyond that, there are not enough defensive playmakers on GBs roster at the 2nd and 3rd level. They need to add a CB1 and an OLB1. No, Perry is not an OLB1 and neither is CM3. ILB could be average next year - no better. S and DL are looking up, but I doubt they'll ever be all-world with their current players. Not that they're bad, just that our guys there should be complementary pieces to a great D and not the centerpieces of that D.

This team is a couple of key pieces on defense away from winning it all - key pieces that are most likely to come through a smart, veteran signing. And we all know how likely that is to happen under TT.

Ted Thompson: Wasting Aaron Rodgers career, one inactive March at a time.

RCPackerFan's picture

The problem with the Packers this year and last year was how the injuries have hit. How they hit at 1 position at a time. You can lose a player here and there. But to have 3 of your top 4 WR's hurt. Top 3 RB's, Top 3 CB's, Top 2 Pass rushers. I mean they take a toll. Last year Rodgers nearly brought the team back to beat the Cardinals with at the end of the game 2 healthy WR's...

I agree about the defense. They need 2 players. A veteran CB and another pass rusher.

Bearmeat's picture

Yeah, when you lose a blue-chip player, or have a run of injuries at 1 position, it's really hard to compete. BUT, the Pats this year and the Packers in 2010 have proven it can be done. GB doesn't win in 2010 without Woodson, Green and Pickett. NE doesn't win the SB this year without Bennett. They probably don't even get there. All of these guys were FA's - and I know I'm missing a couple off of both rosters too.

YOU CANT compete without smart vets on your team. Ted will never get this - so I want him gone. Now. Or, preferably, in 2012. :)

Tundraboy's picture

"The fact is that Green Bay doesn't have that needed quality depth because the front office is so concerned with bringing along the young guys every year that they lose the view of the forest for one tree."

Agree, that and with this compulsion in some cases to not play players who show talent until they have a season under their belt or more,have mastered the system......

Also agree with everything else in your post. If only someone would wake up to that reality and make it happen, now.

KenEllis's picture

Add 5-6 rookie undrafted free agents.

Sign as many of our own guys as possible and don't waste $ on free agents from other teams.

Draft D at the end of first round & let Dom coach em up.

And we'll be right back here asking what we need to do to get to Super Bowl LIII as 2 other squads compete for a Lombardi once again.

JacFrost's picture

I'm with you. and to piggy back, look at how many guys are FA and RFA all at the dame time. You cant replace all of them with a draft where you get what 6 to 9 players before you tap into un drafteds?
Thinking about the Pats going forward I would see them needing two O linemen to help pass block and maybe some added safeties/corners? But the point they dont need much and most of their needs would be back ups. Ditto Atlanta. Ditto Dallas. Ditto Vikings. Seattle. Giants.
The pack have unraveled and are loaded with injury prone players who are undersized and not able to take a punishment. Its been years now like this. Without Rogers this team is below average. Maybe even worse then the Bears.

Nick Perry's picture

I just posted this this morning to another topic...I think it applies just as well to this...

"In 2011 the New England Patriots had the 31st ranked defense and the Packers had the 32nd. They were almost identical in total yards and scoring defense.
One team was able to rebuild the defense through the draft, free agency, and trades. The other team has continued to do business the same tired way and got the same tired results. The Patriots obviously had lost many of the key players of the defenses they had from years before by 2011. Just like the Packers have lost Collins, Woodson, and others. My point is 6 years has been enough time for the Patriots to retool and win a few more SB. The Packers? Well we know."

I think the Packers are close as long as they use EVERY avenue to improve the team. Drafting 29th in each round and depending on a new crop of UDFA isn't going to cut it. I'm 110% positive Atlanta and other NFL teams will do everything possible to improve their football team this Spring. The question now is will the Packers?

carusotrap's picture

How do you "dislike" this? It is dead on.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

There are a lot of people who visit this site who hold grudges against people who disagreed with them. There are other who think that questioning the Packers leadership is some sort of a religious offense.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I see two of them showed up :D

EdsLaces's picture

I get a dislike every comment lol.

RCPackerFan's picture

'My point is 6 years has been enough time for the Patriots to retool and win a few more SB.'

Yes the Patriots have done a good job of rebuilding each year. The truth is winning the Super Bowl is not easy. There is a fine line between winning and losing.
Also, the Patriots are about 2 plays away from losing both of their last 2 super bowls. The Seahawks deciding to throw it and the DB makes a great play on the ball. Had they run it with the best RB at the time, they likely would have won it. Last night it took a lot of plays for the Patriots to crawl back into this game. But all it would have taken is for the Falcons to make 1 play late in the game and they would have won. Falcons lost this game as much as the Patriots won it.

Nick Perry's picture

Shoulda, coulda, woulda, I'm tired of making excuses for the Packers because at the end of the day that's all it is, an excuse. The point is the Patriots DID make the plays. They withstood the Falcons initial barrage of points and shut them down the rest of the way. Just look at the TOP or the difference in first downs. It's not even close. The Patriots are the Masters of making adjustments. When's the last time you saw Dom Capers make an adjustment???

Eric Rowe, Sheard, Van Noy, and Branch, all players the Patriots traded for or signed in free agency. None of them except Sheard cost much, hell Branch was a steal. All of those players made key plays in the SB. Whatever it takes... Trades, Free Agency, whatever it takes to win.

You're 100% right, if the Falcons do one thing different they probably win the SB. But they didn't, just like the Packers didn't do in 2014 against Seattle or 2013 against the 49ers, or 100 other games.

Most games come down to 2 or 3 plays. Who makes those plays is the winner. NE made the plays in both SB's you're talking about, Seattle and Atlanta did not.

Oh BTW..The Patriots have over $68 Million in Cap Space for 2017... Crap!

Edit... RC I think what the Packers did this year was great. But just once I'd like to see TT do more and see what happens. We might be the ones here talking the morning after the SB what a great comeback Rodgers and the Packers just had instead of talking about "How Close" they are.

RCPackerFan's picture

My post wasn't anything to do with the Packers. It was simply about the Patriots.

Everyone wants to talk about how great they are. The truth and reality is they have a lot of luck on their side as well. 2 plays away from losing the last 2 superbowls. Its how close this game really is.

Yes they made the plays. But also the Falcons didn't make the plays they needed to. If the leagues MVP doesn't get sacked on the 2nd and 11 play they likely kick a FG and make it an 11 point game. Odds are the Patriots don't win that game. Yes the Patriots made that sack, but Ryan has to know he can't take a sack in that spot.

Again, not a comment regarding the Packers... Just about the Patriots.

sheppercheeser's picture

Totally agree. I find Matty Ice's sack inexcusable. He wasn't blindsided, he could've, should've thrown it away at the very least. Truth is, they shouldn't have called a pass play anyway. They were already in field goal range- should've just ran up the middle to center the ball for the kicker.

Tundraboy's picture

You're on a roll NP. Great points each and every one.

Tundraboy's picture

Very true RC, but to me the Falcons lost it much earlier when they went into Turtle mode and to be honest the prevent D reminded me of us with Capers. BBs ability to make in game adjustments only highlights how awful MM is in that regard.

RCPackerFan's picture

Oh i agree. The Falcons lost its as much as the Patriots won it. The Patriots won the game, but the Falcons blew a 28-3 lead.

BB is probably the best at making adjustments. I think MM does 'ok' at it, but Capers is really bad at it.

dobber's picture

"Falcons lost this game as much as the Patriots won it."

I would agree with you if the Falcons were putting the ball on the ground, throwing picks, missing coverages, etc. That's not what was happening. The Pats made the defensive adjustments they needed to make to help hold a turtling Falcons offense in check in the second half, and Brady finally found his accuracy after a lousy first half. The Patriots made plays and won that game.

RCPackerFan's picture

Or at the very least Ryan has to know he can't take a sack in that spot. Throw the ball away or whatever. Just can't take a sack in that spot.

Bert's picture

Agree 100%. Very poor play calling and execution after Julio set them up for the game icing FG. No excuses. Just poor all around. ATL had the game in hand and could've run down some clock and kicked a fairly easy FG. Poor coaching + horrible execution = loss.

pacman's picture

Unless NE scored quickly and recovered an onside kick and scored again. Where have I seen that before?

Yes, Atlanta blew it. But NE didn't give up, they came back and Brady made the throws.

Bert's picture

Maybe true but the Patriots and Belichick put themselves in a position to win these games just by being involved in these games in the first place. Can't win a SB if you are at home watching it. The Packers need to make some personnel moves or they'll be home watching it again next year.

RCPackerFan's picture

I don't disagree...

Yeah, they need to make some moves. Not a complete overhaul....

Meaning they are close!

Bert's picture

I agree. I think they are very close. Just need an impact type guy (CB or OLB) and more quality depth (secondary) on defense. Offense is SB caliber if they can keep Rodgers upright. Be nice to have a roster to where we could at least be competitive without AR for a few games.

al bundy's picture

Look, the Pats lost a very good receiver in Mitchel. Expected to miss several weeks. A guy name Floyd was cut for DWI, the Pats grabbed him right away to fill the spot. He did just that for two games. Mitchel came back and Floyd sat out the championship game and the SB.
Two points. The GM didnt a shit about the so called image thing of picking up a DWI guy. They didnt want to marry the guy just use him for a fill in.
Second the GM didnt reach to the practice squad they found a guy in shape, good hands, and a decent player to fill in.
Would Ted have made this move. NO. When our dbacks went down he found more bums on the practice squad. Not in shape, not ready just bodies. The Pats want to win. Ted wants to play cheap.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

The Patriots also hired a literal genius to engineer their defense. The Packers kept the same under performer who's schemes are 30 years old and who doesn't know how to maximize his talent.

Packer_Pete's picture

I don't disagree with you, but one can find players in every round. One just needs to know how to find them. "Drafting 29th in each round and depending on a new crop of UDFA isn't going to cut it." - maybe, maybe not. Just look at the list of Patriots key contributors from last night:
Tom Brady: 6th Round
Julian Edelman: 7th Round
Amendola: Undrafted
Chris Hogan: Undrafted
Malcolm Mitchell: 4th Round
James White: 4th Round

'Skill' position players, and nobody drafted higher than round 4... It can be done. Donadl Driver was a 7th rounder also...

Packer_Pete's picture

I don't disagree with you, but one can find players in every round. One just needs to know how to find them. "Drafting 29th in each round and depending on a new crop of UDFA isn't going to cut it." - maybe, maybe not. Just look at the list of Patriots key contributors from last night:
Tom Brady: 6th Round
Julian Edelman: 7th Round
Amendola: Undrafted
Chris Hogan: Undrafted
Malcolm Mitchell: 4th Round
James White: 4th Round

'Skill' position players, and nobody drafted higher than round 4... It can be done. Donald Driver was a 7th rounder also...
But I agree, the key is to not just rely on the draft alone.

JacFrost's picture

I read how the Giants GM said screw it, I'm spending some money and got a top pass rusher, running back and linebacker via free agency.
The article went on to say those three guys solidified this team, filled needs with 'talented' players, not just some bodies and turned the team into a contender. Three guys.
You hit the nail on the head. Lets not forget how Reggie White helped solidity the Packers into a SB win.
Ted T just will not or cannot spend the money. When he does get a free agent its someone cheap. Someon other teams passed on and someone who can give only limited help. If he signs Peppers thats telling you he is not serious about changing things up same old same old

RCPackerFan's picture

How did it work out for the Giants?

Tundraboy's picture

See your point on comp picks but Giants have benefited a great deal. Without those free agents they would have had a lost season, and with them the arrow is pointing up to the point that they have a shot with what's left of Eli's career. Beckham did them in.

carusotrap's picture

And one more thing about injuries. The whole, "well, we woulda won it all without the injuries" is silly. It's football. Every single team is devastated by injuries. Once that happens, the question becomes whether or not you've got the rookies, 7th rounders, and UDFAs who can step in and keep the engine going. The problem with the Packers and their frustratingly limited approach to personnel is that those guys are already starting. When they get hurt, where do you go?

RCPackerFan's picture

So... who said "The whole, "well, we woulda won it all without the injuries" is silly. It's football." ?

I don't know if this was regarding my comment or not, but I simply said that I would have liked to have seen how the game would have turned out had they not been as injured as they were.

Yes every team has injuries. The Patriots just won the super bowl without possibly their best offensive player.

But the truth is there is a point that to many injuries to teams are to much to overcome. You can only go so deep with good players. The Vikings could agree with that. Eventually you run out of bodies to use.

The TKstinator's picture

Players and coaches have to say "injuries are no excuse", but this is one time where the fans know better. Why even have a depth chart if all the players are equal?
How would most teams fare if they only lost 5 players total but those 5 are the entire offensive line? Next man up? Yeah, right.

RCPackerFan's picture

Exactly right...
And honestly I'm sick of fans thinking that the 4th-6th string players should be as good as the 1st string... I would like to know how many teams run 6 players deep at every position.

By halftime of the game we were without our Starting RB, both OG's, and 3 out of our top 4 WR's were injured badly and shouldn't have been playing.

There is a point in which to many injuries to 1 position is to much to overcome. The Packers reached that point this year.

Savage57's picture

Based upon what we witnessed last night, the NFL is starting to feel like 'them' and then all the rest.

Somewhat how the rest of the league probably felt about the Packers in the 1960's.

croatpackfan's picture

Yes, Packers can win more than one SB ring in next several years. All those problems Packers had last 2 seasons will be solved. For me, Packers are No 1 favorit for SB 2017...

I understand people who want to bet all in and win at least one SB. For Aaron, they very often say. They think that is all what Aaron Rodgers can acomplish before the end of his career...

Why I'm in bandwagon of draft & develop? Because I think and feel and believe that Aaron will have at least 2 additional SB if not 3. I would like to ask you, how old is Tom Brady? And how old is Aaron...

I think TT had 2 very good drafts (2015 and 2016) and we will start to see payoff of patience already in 2017 season... Packers will have very good to excellent DL, very good secondary, Clay will go inside and Packers needs will be one to 2 very good to excellent pass rushers... So, they need to resign Perry, keep Julius for small money, add one better OLB from FA and draft at least 2 OLB.

With that I say, Packers win SB 2017 and at least another one during rookie contracts of 2015, 2016 draft!

I think Aaron will be better with higher age...

4zone's picture

The Patriots will win 2 more SBs before we win 1.

croatpackfan's picture

Yeah, esspecially if Tom Brady will retire...

FIrst 3 Q of the SB game showed you that Packers were not that bad you all were crying after NFCCG...

Tundraboy's picture

I admire your optimism but it is a leap of faith. Most likely we will plod along for the next two years until management and coaching wake up. This team needs a major influx of talent on D, sooner not later and MM needs to watch yesterday's game and call BB for some pointers. Maybe BB could start a coaching program like MMs QB school. I thoroughly dislike the Pats and BB but have to admit their halftime adjustments were on another level. BB knows how to put a HOF QB to good use. We don't. While I felt Atlanta blew the opportunity they had, choked if you will, I give credit to NE because they made them choke. That is what great leadership can do.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

"Most likely we will plod along for the next two years until ..."

How will that be different from the last 5 years?

Tundraboy's picture

Lol. Hope we don't, but that is most likely how long we will be stuck with TT and possibly DC.

croatpackfan's picture

Falcons stopped in the second half. Some injuries plagued them too... Referees had some influence (not major), e. g. last PI call in OT... They passed lot of similar calls in regulation... Falcons did the same mistake as Packers 2 seasons ago in NFCCG. They just exhale by thinking that everything is already done and game was in their hands... That is all!

Regarding my optimism, I remember your pessimism when team was 4-6. The same team you were thought it will not be in postseason achieved to NFCCG. Now, you are telling me that I'm just optimistic... You who insists to cut Davante Adams last season claiming there is not talent in him. Same as you are talking this year about Packers secondary.

I'm not fool, but just see what happens. One injury and team is out: e. g. Seahawks (Thomas), Raiders (Carr), Steelers (Ben) etc... Packers had several, not one important injury, but several. And I know the pattern...The 2013 season was followed by 2014. The season when Packers was NFL best team!

Be pessimist. That is your right!

Tundraboy's picture

Thanks for keeping track of my statements or frustrations. Yes I, like many of us did not believe at 4-6 they could recover. I even wished we lost out I admit, to get a top ten pick. But I am far from a pessimist, just a realist, rightfully so based on MM, DC's track records of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And most of all TT not putting more talent around ARod. I grew up with the 60s teams, stayed loyal and optimistic through EVERY season In the 70s and 80s, waiting for a great QB. Then we get 2! ,the second being so great we may never be so fortunate again. So if I am harsh on the management, coaching and some players who do not realize how fortunate they are so be it. Wouldn't want it any other way. We need to do everything possible as an organization not to squander this era.

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

Absolutely agree!! Tundra!!

croatpackfan's picture

Well, as I said, nothing personal in my reply to you. I respect you as Packers fan. I understand your "fear". Most of the members here remember that long age of misery. I do not. Maybe I'm more willing to use "half full" than "Half empty" phylosophy because of that.
But, maybe, that management you mention knows facts little better and knows little (much?) more facts we do not... Many fans here, as you, thinks FA are the only answer to improve Packers. Maybe. But following what happens to other teams in NFL I can say that there is more mistakes when team overpaid FA compared with few "scores".
For example, lets talk about Giants. They spent a lot in FA and they improved their secondary a lot. They gone home after WCG. Packers beat them... Than investment is reason why Giants now have to release few very good to excellent players as salary cap casualties. New season is not quite bright for them. Because they need to replace very good to excellent players on D as well as to rebuild their O. It will be hard task...
Then, lets us use Cowboys as examples. How many FA Cowboys signed before 2016 season? Any significant? They have the best record in NFC. Wow - w/o FA signing. Is that even possible? Who beat them? Packers! Team with one important FA signing and resigning their own FA... Interesting, isn't it?
Lets see Falcons... Team that was built through draft with one important FA signing (Mack at center!). Where were all those teams that spent so much money on FA? They were watching January football from their homes...
And finaly, why I'm more in D & D? Because I believe that Aaron Rodgers can play on the top level at least 10 years from now! As Brady did, or older Manning, or Carson Palmer...
Also, I'm not young guy. I went through a lot of hard times in my life. And I learned very important lesson - every time when I had hard time I was guilty for that hard time. I caused them by my impatience. So, I'm strong believer in Chinese proverb:
"With patience comes perfection!"
Thank you!

Tundraboy's picture

No worries, we all are a bit frustrated. I wish Rodgers plays another 10 years but can not expect it. I have no fear, just worry that we may end up regretting what could have been when Rodgers is gone. One only gets so many opportunities.

Handsback's picture

Nick Perry's comparison is very astute and shows the difference between the Packers and Patriots and how they have gone about getting better.
I don't agree with caruso81 when he said" Every single team is devastated by injuries.". The Falcons were w/o their #1 CB, and maybe their best pass rusher but not the Patriots. The Pats didn't have their all world TE or number 2 receivers Floyd, but Atlanta played a center with a reported broken leg and in the 4th qtr, their RT. Those are major injuries, and having Atlanta losing their RT, may have stopped them from scoring that one additional FG or TD to end that game. Compare those injuries to the Packers who played w/o their #1 WR/CB/RB and losing 6 players in the course of the game aren't on the same level. Sometimes the healthiest team will win and it might have been the case for last night's SB. In Green Bay's case....2014 was a great year for keeping the team healthy except for the most important spot-QB. How close are the Packers? I would say they made the final four with a banged up team and with a healthier team could have made it and won the SB.

4zone's picture

With Shields., not without.

JacFrost's picture

I say they were dam lucky to just make it to the championship game. My take, the guys who were injured in pass d arent any good when they are healthy. This team came close to setting season records for most passing yards given up. Randle Rollins and Gunter were not hurt and out once, they were constantly in and out the lineup even in pre season. You cant win with that and they did the same thing the previous year.
This thinking that oh once they guys are healthy we will be a super team, ya not happening. Gunter runs a 4.7 40. He aint getting any faster.

Hematite's picture

Unless Ted Thompson changes his spots we are as close as we are going to get under this regime.

Since '61's picture

First, we should thank the Falcons for taking over the mantle of the biggest choke job in NFL and Super Bowl history. Their collapse was even worse than the Packers collapse in Seattle. I'm glad that I am not a Falcons fan. As for the Packers they need pass rushers and cornerbacks if they are going to get back to and win the Super bowl. Yes, they are close but they are always close. There are no trophies for close. Only for the one winning team. Everyone else is just a matter of how long they took to be eliminated. Ask the Falcons or their fans about how they feel about being close this morning. Since 2011 the Pats have retooled twice and won 2 SBs. Yes, they were one play games but all 7 of the BB and Brady SBs, win or lose, have been one play games. The 6 point difference from yesterday is the largest point difference in any of their Super Bowls. The Packers are close and will remain close as long as they have a healthy Aaron Rodgers. That has been proven over the last 8 seasons. The question is will they utilize all available approaches to close the gap and get past being close? We know what they need, will they do it or will they focus on building "titletown". With 2 NFL titles since 1967 maybe it would be more accurately named "closetown". Thanks, Since '61

dobber's picture

Not to revisit that game too much, but I would argue the Packers collapse in Seattle--just based on time, the onside kick, the 2-pt conversion--was more improbable. But the bigger game earns the bigger choke.

That's the kind of loss that can dog a team for awhile...

4zone's picture

AR only gets you so far. A lot farther than most players, but still, a team needs more. We can't draft our defense back in a single year. While developing players grow, our aging players decline. The counter balancing shifts need to be offset. We have too many needs this year and we can't expect to fill them all by draft alone.

4zone's picture

We tend to be rather tunnel visioned when we think our defense will climb the rankings simply by our guys developing. We tend to forget all 31 other teams are developing right along with us. If we want to gain on them, we need to do more than they do.

Razer's picture

Nick Perry and Bearmeat highlight the key points about our progress on building a championship caliber defense. Rebuild is taking too long, we are not fast enough and we are not hitting on enough picks to make the difference.

I am a defense wins championships kind of guy. If you can't stop them, good teams and studs like Brady take what they want. And Brady would have picked us clean.

Two years ago Atlanta was God awful on defense. Today they are almost there. They play with speed and can control the line of scrimmage. TWO years! We are 5 or 6 years in and we are still trying to convert a safety and basketball player into our starting corners. We are still unable to cover with our linebackers. And, we are still trying to win games with two down linemen and dropping guys (who can't cover) into coverage.

I would like to think we are a year away but the tale is in the tape. We will keep getting what we are getting because we are not changing our approach on any front. It is unfortunate because we have our Brady. He just needs a little help from the defense.

Bearmeat's picture

Fire. Ted. Thompson. Then follow that with Capers.

That is all.

Razer's picture

I've long held that Capers hasn't been given the talent to run his system successfully. That being said, running a scheme that you don't have the personnel for is not good coaching. I don't have any confidence that a Capers designed defense will win any time soon.

As for TT, we have been emphasizing defense for the last five years. We may well see 1st rounders Datone Jones and Nick Perry walk without much impact during their time with the team. We are still too slow and all our ILB look and play like AJ Hawk. Ted obviously needs help identifying talent (draft or otherwise) on the defensive side of the ball. I am not confident that we will see a change on this front either.

Steady as she goes is the theme that most seem comfortable with.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

If you take away the massive F up by 22 other teams in the 2005 NFL draft that Thompson has benefited from. How do rank his performance as a GM?

I rank it as middling myself, not awful, but nothing like one of the "Top GMs" either.

Razer's picture

Picking near the bottom, Ted has done fairly well. But we are always picking from a lesser pool of talent. We won't get over the hump by these means alone.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

The Patriots pick near the bottom too. However, the Patriots fill gaps with trades (in both directions) and FAs where prudent. This has allowed the Patriots to trade picks and reap a tremendous amount of value, because they're not forced to draft marginal fits in order to fill a weakness on the team. The Patriots also cuts players who turn out to be bad fits, TT holds onto them until the bitter end which wastes a roster spot that could go to someone who might workout.

I would say the Packers defense is commonly full of marginal fits, projections and enormous gaps. TT drafted a Safety and Point Guard to play CB, which blew up in his face. He drafts linemen who can't run to play OLB (or even eventually MLB) which has yielded bad results and sends the defense in some direction from the 70's. There is also the shear number of DLs he's drafted who couldn't play.

Razer's picture

...I would say the Packers defense is commonly full of marginal fits, projections and enormous gaps... There is also the shear number of DLs he's drafted who couldn't play....

True on all fronts. I would also suggest that our offensive and defensive schemes are not flexible enough to plug and play personnel. Waiting 3 years before a guy can fully understand his assignments has limited our ability to easily fill gaps. It is probably not just a Ted problem.

cummings's picture

Well according to the fans from other teams that I know, they would love to take the whole Packer leadership team.

And who would you say are the top GM's beside BB?

gary's picture

Your assessment of TT is so on the money. But packer fans love TT. I don't get it.

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

Agreed!

cummings's picture

And replace them with whom?

croatpackfan's picture

You might have your answer something like - we do not know! That will surely make Packers situation better...

Oh, yes, another answer would be - promote some younger guys - with no names for that "younger" guys! Also, the answer is - put the young Wolf in charge! Where is guarantee he will be better than TT. There is no guarantee! But we are sick of same faces... You know... Like Patriots are sick of Belichick... Who was with Patriots for how many years? And they were every year in SB? No, but who cares, he is better... I wonder why people call the Patriots Cheatriots?

This is just answers you will get!

Tundraboy's picture

Might just be a case of addition by subtraction.

StvHld's picture

The Packers are close. They need some team speed on defense. They could really use some linebackers with speed who can cover a back or put pressure on the QB. The CB depth has to be addressed. A real deep threat at WR would be nice. The problem is our GM refuses to use all the tools in his box. Draft & develop will only get you so far. Eventually you need to add a veteran FA or 2 to put you team over the top. NE adds vets every year and look what it has gotten them. Hopefully Ted realizes he only has a couple of years left and decides to go out with a bang! Not holding my breath expecting anything to change though.

cuervo's picture

Our offense is sufficient to win a super bowl, but our defense is light years away..we need more than 2 players to revamp that side of the ball. Moves could be made to help that be somewhat accomplished in 1 year, but that would take a complete 180 from what the Packers do and I for one, don't expect that to happen. We are severly lacking playmakers on the D side of the ball.

EdsLaces's picture

As we proved this year as long as we have AR we will have a chance to get close,but until we add a couple playmakers at LB amd CB we will never win the big one.

Razer's picture

Totally agree. I will add that we probably need another stud on the DLine to help collapse the pocket. Overall, we still need 3 to 4 real good players on defense. Plus - we need Randall and Rollins to make it to the next level.

Long ways to go...

Tarynfor12's picture

How close are the Packers to winning another SB?
As close as the Moon appears at times, like you can actually grab it, but reality awakens you and never has something so close be,so, so far away.
The Patriots, last night showed Packer Nation, and all that implies, how far away we are as we have nothing to what they have as drive to win, smarts to win, play makers to win etc, etc.

Another article had someone offer the yardstick as a ruler to measure the equality of GB and NE via what happens in the SB...35 inches belongs to NE....one inch is ours.

Freddie Fender....Water days and wasted nights.

Wasted seasons and Wasted decades....as in 2 Rings over 2 decades and counting with back to back Hall of Fame QBs.
The only thing that compares to this deficit is the National Deficit.

The TKstinator's picture

Freddie was way ahead of the game emphasizing hydration back then.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

"How close are the Packers to winning another SB?
As close as the Moon appears at times, like you can actually grab it, but reality awakens you and never has something so close be,so, so far away."

Just beautiful.

Armont Wilson's picture

I believe that the Packers need key players on D as well as OL to keep Rogers protected.i believe that the Packers are a great team but could use some new plays/tricks in their play book. The thing is when you repeatedly show up in the grid iron with the same bag of tricks every one and their mother know what's coming . With some new depth in the playbook will keep teams wondering what's next?. However when you play the phone game it's difficult but not impossible to move forward I believe that Mike should be given more say in what happens. I mean that is what the organization hired him for .I trust and believe he has what it takes as long as he is given the keys to drive not to sit in the passenger seat and see how it plays out

stockholder's picture

Not close at all. This team has not been super bowl caliber since 2010. You want Capers Gone, TT gone, And the articles on MM are very disturbing. A-Rod is no different than Fran Tarkinton. Yes he has a better arm than Francis. But you saw the ,"I believe, and CAN DO" in Brady last night. ( As opposed to A-Rod. ) But it's just not registering with people on TTs drafts. The guy has turned us into the purple people eaters. Sell tickets, and win the division. Then nobody can Bitch. Sorry were not close at all. And TT is not going to do anything to change that with one year left on his contract.

Razer's picture

You can feel the frustration of Packer fans as we watch peer teams make adjustments and move ahead. Our 8-win run to get to the NFCCG only served to highlight that we have the 'man' but we consistently fall short on defense. Unless something changes to address this deficiency we will be back next year moaning about the very same stuff. Even the most patient of us are having trouble believing that Ted Thompson is going to fix this defense.

khouser's picture

They aren't far off.

Step 1 - Current Roser Decisions:
Re-sign Jared Cook, Nick Perry, JC Tretter, and Brett Goode. Let Don Barclay, Mike Pennel, Datone Jones, and Christine Michael walk. Cut Sam Shields. (Lang, Peppers, Lacy, Hyde should all be decisions based on their willingness to negotiate)

Step 2 - Outside Free Agents:
Test the market for Stephon Gilmore and Trumain Johnson. If the cost is too high, make a move for AJ Bouye or Marcus Cooper.

Step 3 - The Draft:
1st round - OLB (McKinley, Reddick, Williams, Watt)
2nd round - CB (Wilson, Sutton, Jackson, King, White)
4th/5th round - RB (Mack, Perine, McNichols, Foreman, Gallman)
Fill in the rest of the draft with OL, TE, and WR.

Razer's picture

You're hired. When can you start?

RCPackerFan's picture

This seems way to optimistic for this page...

I mostly agree with everything.
One note, the Packers already cut Pennel.

In the first round I would love to get Watt. He would be a perfect fit for their defense. He has a very high upside. I think he will be a player on the rise as we get closer to the draft.
2nd round, a CB would be great.
For me, personally I would love to see the first 4 rounds go something like this OLB, CB, TE, RB, OL (assuming we get 2 4th round picks)
Add another WR later in the draft with return ability, and add more depth at DL/LB is always a good thing.

croatpackfan's picture

RC we are already stocked at OL. Remember Spriggs and Murphy? Remember Jacob Flores? Patrick Lucas? There would be waste of pick to pick OL, barring someone very talented falls down unexpectedly...

RCPackerFan's picture

I agree mostly... But at the same time you always need depth on the OL. Thompson has been very good at finding mid round OL. So drafting an OL in the 4-5th round area would be wise.

While they have Spriggs and Murphy, they maybe losing Tretter and Lang. They will need more depth at the very least.

4zone's picture

Step 1 - I pretty much agree with except Peppers. I would offer him the LB coaching position. Keep him around to lead but not to play.

Step 2 - Add Kawann Short.

Step 3 - Even if we sign someone like Short and Bouye in FA, I still want to focus is on Maximum Impact at DL, LB AND CB in the first 3 rounds. This could turn our defense from a sieve to a real game changer.

And quite frankly, I don't care if we only end up with 5 or 6 picks this year and are short a pick or two next year to do this. Get IMPACT guys who are football smart.

JacFrost's picture

I read how we can keep X and let XYZ go and the problem, those XYZ's are a hell of a lot of people. Who the hell are you going to replace them with. You only get so many picks in the draft.
The problem, we need to keep people that arent great players and we need to replace experienced players with draft picks who may not pan out. Its a merry go round.
Ted T is the problem, need new direction and commitment to spending money on free agents and cutting dead wood.

4zone's picture

WRONG, we shouldn't rely on replacing experienced players with draft picks, EVER! They should be replaced by 'developed' players or FA's. You MAY get 1 immediate impact player per draft in our year to year pick position, if you're lucky, 2. You really don't want to ever have to rely on an incoming draft pick to replace your pro-bowler. They are supposed to develop into starting rolls. If you need immediate upgrades or need to replace failed draft picks, FA is a resource that must be utilized wisely. It is the gap measure needed by most teams to fill in substandard positions or provide quality depth.

Samson's picture

Unfortunately, the Pack are as close to 7-9 as they are to a SB appearance. -- I don't ever see it happening with Teddy at the helm. --- I'm a little amazed at how fans are so tolerant of a GM who refuses to use all the tools to build an NFL roster.

Too many fans (RC?) enjoy listing all the lame excuses why GB has fallen short the last six seasons. -- The Pack play the Vikings, Bears and Lions every year. -- That's a 5-1 or even 6-0 record almost guaranteed. --- The playoffs are almost a 'for sure'.

The Pack fall on their face when playing 'superior teams' once they enter the playoffs.

This is on TT. It's his responsibility to field the best roster possible under the rules. -- He's not doing his job and we all suffer.

RCPackerFan's picture

What lame excuses do I enjoy listening too?

The 1 season they completely blew it was 2014. Last year, they were down to 2 healthy WR's left and nearly came back to beat the Cardinals. A blown coverage in OT ended up costing them the win.
This year they ran out of everyone.

'The Pack fall on their face when playing 'superior teams' once they enter the playoffs.'
yeah, couldn't agree more. Packers finished the regular season 10-6. They fell right on their face when they faced teams with records better then them in the post season...

Wait....
Giants were 11-5.... Huh... Thats odd The Packers only beat them 38-13...

But they fell on their face against the Cowboys right? Because the Cowboys were far Superior to them this year. The Cowboys finished the season with the 2nd best record. Obviously they fell on their face playing the Cowboys in Dallas, right? Huh, The Packers beat them 34-31?

Yeah, I guess finishing in the top 4 of the NFL is falling on your face...

Samson's picture

Anyone can grab examples that support their specific cause.
The bottom line is that the Pack have not been in a SB for the last six seasons. AR's career is coming to an end and TT has squandered another great OB.

You may be perfectly happy with those results but most PackFans are not.
Nor am I. ----- But, go ahead. -- Let's hear some more lame excuses. Anything to avoid the truth.

RCPackerFan's picture

Or anyone can use actual facts....

The truth is we can place blame on Thompson, McCarthy, Rodgers or whoever we want. He put the team together for 2014 which should have been a trip to the Super Bowl. The players blew it. Can't blame Thompson for that one.

I'm happy that my team competes year in and year out. Do I want them to get to the Super Bowl, YES! But

What lame excuses am I using? They aren't excuses, they are reasons and facts... The injuries derailed this season. Its not an excuse that by the end of the game they had to play a NT on the OL. Its a fact.

The biggest thing I would have liked is if Thompson would have went out and found a veteran CB when Shields went down. And definitely after Randall and Rollins were out. To me that was the biggest failure on Thompson's part.

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

Dead on balls accurate!!

Gforcetrivers's picture

I think we are 3 players away. We need premier pass rusher, corner and a RB. TY had one great game and a bunch of mediocre games. maybe he can make the jump.

al bundy's picture

I agree times two. The two biggest plays in the SB came from an inside pass rush by the Pats sacking Ryan. The pack have zero pass rush on the inside. No speed, no finese. I say you move Mathews to the middle for the inside speed pass rush and like you said a pass rushing DE. Ya and a running back or two and I would like two corners, one a top draft pick the other a free agent and keep our other guys as back ups.
Please put Peppers out to pasture is days are done. Datone could be farmed out to, just a bum who goes missing in important games. Eliot is always hurt. The top D picks last year did not stand out at all.

Malland56's picture

I agree that we need a big time 5 star hit you in the mouth DE who can pass rush. Jones sucks and always has. CM gets pushed around like a rag doll when he rushes from the outside. I have watched him every game since the 3rd season. When he lost that 20 pounds they just man handled him on the outside. No double teaming him now for years. Elliot is a dang good rusher and OLB. He should be playing a lot more than what he has. Seems when he is in there he is always around the ball.

As for running back, we have a real good one in Clampett if he doesn't get hurt next year. The guy has a way of getting in the end zone and hits the gaps quick. Watch him next year. But I agree that TT HAS to go to FA this year for sure. Its a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. And if he doesn't and the Pack are a so so team again. Its time for him to go.

4zone's picture

We will need a top 5 defense just to make it to the SB. Go check out our rankings for our last 3 SBs.

al bundy's picture

In our league we have a very talented Atlanta team, Dallas will be a huge force next year, the Giants and Vikings could be improved as well not to mention Seattle.

Arizona, Bears Lions, Carolina and others will be above average.

Thus the packers to make it to the super bowl have to obviously stand above all of the above.
Not going to happen with this defense. Giving up way too many points that even Rogers can over come.

4zone's picture

Lets See:
Guion - Entering year 10
Matthews - Entering year 9
Peppers - Entering year 276

That's 60% of your pass rush. On the brink of petrification. Of the remaining 40%, 1 meets 'to be feared' status, the other, still wears diapers.

4zone's picture

Enough of this garbage: I'm taking over Ted, pack your bags and hit the road jack.

Peppers, thank you for playing (really, seriously), unfortunately, here's your departing gift of job opportunity to coach the Packer LB's in 2017.

Clay - My Man! Lets talk pay cut.

Oh Mr. Rogers??? How much are you willing to throw into the kitty to help us get the defensive talent we need to get you another SB win and Mega Endorsement Deal bucks???

T.J. This one is gonna be a tough one but we really need to move on now. We just can't afford what you're worth at your age. Mr. Tretter, welcome to RG.

Hey Ms. Hopkins, can you get me A.J. Bouye's and Kawaan Short's agents on the line...

Mike, how would you like it if I got you Derek Barnett in the first round? You probably won't get quite as many picks as normal but what the hey...

Shavager's picture

PACKERS FANS--WAKE UP!! DUMB Capers has been DC for EIGHT YEARS NOW--his defenses have given up the MOST POINTS EVER, SECOND MOST POINTS and THIRD MOST POINTS--EVER SCORED against a Packers playoff team in 96 YEARS of history! Despite Ted Thompson signing or drafting some70+ NEW players for Capers defense--it is worse now than past years!! In past SIX years Capers defense has AVERAGED giving up MORE POINTS, more TOTAL yds, more PASS yds, and more RUN yds than McCarthy's offense can GENERATE as average. DON'T YOU GET IT? Aaron Rodgers leads Packers to playoffs--but HE CAN'T BEAT CAPERS DEFENSE!! Packers are outscored, outgained, outcoached and BEATEN every playoff season for SIX CONSECUTIVE years now!! Subtract the SB season in '10 and McCarthy/Capers RECORD in playoffs is 5 Wins--7 LOSSES. What makes you think anything's different with Capers still at DC? Falcons LOST Super Bowl---their DC is NOT returning next season--ONE failure, he's GONE. DUMB Capers---SIX FAILURES--he's STILL in Green Bay. WHY?

PETER MAIZ's picture

I totally agree with you. Maybe Capers' defenses are too complex. Ha Ha totally had to back peddle his Instagram when he said good-by to Shields and spoke of Capers. Now how do you expect games when the opposing teams score 30 plus points? It's really McCarthy that doesn't have the guts to get rid of him. Why do so many fans defend him when Green Bay is constantly among the very last defenses in the league year after year? With the money these coaches make, I say, Dom, leave and hit the golf course or go play bingo, who really cares.

oldfart's picture

THERE WILL BE NO SUPER BOWL UNTIL ARRON ROGERS ASKS TO BE TRADED. WE COULD HAVE A SUPER BOWL WIN IF THE PACKERS AGRESSIVLY PURSUE BILL BELICHICK AS GENERAL MANAGER

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