Five Packers Who Give the Team Reason for Hope in 2023

The Green Bay Packers endured a disappointing season in 2023 as they failed to 

make the playoffs for the first time under head coach Matt LaFleur. But despite 

the disappointing overall performance, there were some players that played well 

enough to give the team reasons for hope for 2023. 

 

Here are the top five players give the team reasons for optimism for next season: 

 

5. OL Zach Tom 

 

Tom showed his versatility as a rookie while playing every position along the offensive line except center. He has graded out better as a pass blocker than a run blocker as a rookie, but his ability to protect Aaron Rodgers both at tackle and at guard was surprisingly strong for a rookie. 

 

If he continues to play well and develop as a player, Tom is likely to win a starting job soon. The question is where the Packers intend to play him long term.  

 

Having two versatile linemen like Tom and Elgton Jenkins is a big asset for the Packers offense especially when injuries inevitably strike along the offensive line. 

 

4.  WR Romeo Doubs 

The Packers drafted Doubs in the fourth round of this year’s draft and the Nevada alum made an immediate impression during training camp and during the preseason. 

Doubs was thrust into a larger role than originally anticipated early in the season when Sammy Watkins and Randall Cobb missed time due to injuries.  

 

Doubs made his share of rookie mistakes but also showed the potential to be a solid WR 2 once he gets some more experience and develops more trust with his quarterback.  

 

Doubs caught 42 passes for 425 yards and three touchdowns in 13 games as a rookie. The Packers expect him to take on a bigger role in 2023 and to become one of the team’s starting receivers.  

 

3. ILB Quay Walker 

 

Walker earned a starting spot at inside linebacker from the start of training camp and ended up leading the team in tackles. He has good speed which can help him track down running plays across the field, cover backs, tight ends and receivers or blitz the quarterback when called upon. 

 

In the first half of the season, Walker struggled on his reads and with his adjustment to the NFL in general. He did not always play zone defense well and overreacted on running plays or failed to keep contain.   

 

He started to make more plays in the second half of the season and to gain confidence.  

 

Walker still must overcome his temper which saw him ejected from two late season games for shoving an out of uniform practice squad player and a trainer.  

 

Still, Walker has a lot of natural ability and appears to be growing into his role on defense and should be a fixture at ILB for years to come. 

 

2. QB Jordan Love 

 

Love has still only started one game in his NFL career but in limited action this season, the former first-round pick out of Utah State looked more confident and decisive and was able to utilize his arm strength and mobility more to his advantage. 

Love is entering his fourth season and his future in Green Bay is at a crossroads. Will Aaron Rodgers be back with the Packers in 2023? If not, Love is the leading candidate to take over at quarterback. 

 

If Rodgers does return, will Love demand a trade or will he be willing to spend one more season backing up Rodgers? It is also possible if Rodgers returns that the Packers may choose to trade Love if they get the right package for him in return. 

 

The Packers should soon find out if Love can live up to his potential and become a quality starting NFL quarterback. 

 

1. WR Christian Watson 

 

Watson missed most of training camp and all the preseason due to injuries which slowed his development. In the first half of the season, he fought through more assorted injuries that kept him out of the lineup and struggled to deal with drops and learning his assignments. 

 

But the former North Dakota State star had a breakout performance against the Cowboys and started to show why GM Brian Gutekunst traded up in the second round to select him. 

 

Watson has excellent size and elite speed and can make game breaking plays. He showed his potential in the final eight games of the season. 

 

If Watson continues to work hard and develop, he has the potential to become a dominant WR 1 in this league and a player that opposing defenses must pay attention to and gameplan for. That could also open things for other players in the offense and make Watson a difference maker.

You can follow Gil Martin on Twitter @GilPackers

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Comments (87)

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mnbadger's picture

January 19, 2023 at 12:16 pm

Great article and badly needed shot of positive news.
I'd add RGary to the list as well, maybe in place of JLo.
I'm curious if JLo's entry was, like many things this time of year, an indirect reference to ar12?
Between the lines I read - let's find a new home for 12 and move forward with confidence with JLo.
Agreed.
GPG!

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wiremans12's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:48 pm

I'd like to see more of the rookie OT Walter who dominated Chase Young as a true freshman for Penn st why did he fall in the draft and is not highly thought off after his freshman year i don't know ?

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:56 pm

He was projected to be in the 4th round but was rather raw, much as Nijman was coming out of V-Tech

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Coldworld's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:42 pm

Walker had some issues technical issues in his last year, he was discussed as a first rounder a year earlier. However, he was nowhere near as raw as Nijman, who essentially they just had play on raw physical superiority.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

January 20, 2023 at 07:06 am

Walker reminds me of Enagbare... but the opposite. :-D

Both fell in the draft due to perceived "holes" in their games: Enagbare had technical skills but lacked the RAS numbers, Walker has the ideal physical traits but lacked technical skills.

I'm curious to follow the development of both.

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BirdDogUni's picture

January 19, 2023 at 12:31 pm

5. Tom might look good at Center too? If he makes a decent 2nd year jump, it will be hard to keep him out of the lineup.

4. Confident Doubs will be a great #3 WR. I still look for the Packers to draft another WR in the 2nd round this year to round out the future WR Corps.

3. Quay Walker will only get better and better... Think he's learned his lesson as far as pushing people goes.

2. Jordan Love ~ I am probably way off base here, but I expect him to be the starter opening day, '23...

1. Christian Watson ~ This off-season is going to be huge for CW. If he gets with the right people, his 2nd year jump might be the biggest of any Packer in multiple decades. Hopefully, he can have some luck and stay relatively healthy for his 2nd year campaign.

Honorable Mention:

Devonte Wyatt ~ Dude makes a 2nd year jump and he and KC can feast next season.

Bo Melton ~ Looking forward to seeing what he looks like next preseason. Speed is a true equalizer and I hope he can come in and contribute right away next season.

Austin Allen ~ Since our TE position has been a dumpster fire for decades, (plural) I'm hoping the signing of the 6' 8" 253 lbs Allen late in the season gives him the motivation to come in next season and claim a spot on this roster, never looking back. I think having a guy like that on the team might ease our RedZone woes...

Tariq Carpenter ~ Hoping he can make a huge 2nd year jump and really find a niche on this defense eventually. (Maybe after Joe Berry is fired though?)

Sean Rhyan, Rasheed Walker, and Caleb Jones ~ This is the time of year to be optimistic. In my world, all three make huge strides their 2nd year and solidify our OL (or at least solidify our backups) making drafting more OL less necessary.

Hoping AR12s ultimatums declared on the PMS result in his eventual trade, garnering at least some draft capital and much needed cap space.

Thinking the future is much brighter than most people might think. With some luck and hard work, I could see us dominating the NFC North again sooner, rather than later.

Go Pack Go!

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Leatherhead's picture

January 19, 2023 at 12:46 pm

______"Sean Rhyan, Rasheed Walker, and Caleb Jones ~ This is the time of year to be optimistic. In my world, all three make huge strides their 2nd year and solidify our OL"----------

Yeah, in my world, I'm hoping one of the three develops enough that we could put him on the field against a good DT without it costing us the game.

IMO, if we don't add better players, we're going to have players on the field we don't want as soon as injuries happen.

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BirdDogUni's picture

January 19, 2023 at 10:16 pm

*You're obviously not very optimistic! ; P

I have no idea about Rhyan, but I actually expect Walker and Jones to develop. I actually hope our OL looks something like this after preseason.

Bakh, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Jones... With Tom, Nijman, and Walker coming off the bench.

Would be great if Walker and Jones were to become beasts...

Bakh, Runyan, Jenkins, Walker, Jones would be awesome, with Tom, Nijman, and Myers in the wings.

Or Bakh, Jenkins, Tom, Runyan, Jones? Who knows, it's eight months away.

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 12:59 pm

Thanks for mentioning Allen in there. At NU he was underrated, and he's a beast of a guy. I'm excited to see what he can do. Regardless, we need a legitimate TE. Hopefully we get Michael Mayer in the 2023 draft.
Perhaps we also take a WR in round 2 or 3; Rashee Rice of SMU is someone the Packers could target; he is fast and big, like Watson.

As far as the OL goes, because we won't be contending next year, I'd give the line of
Tom-Jenkins-Myers-Runyan-Nijman at least one year and see how they do or if anyone improves. If anyone fails then we can draft replacements in 2024. OL is not our biggest need in 2023; TE, WR, S, and OLB, are in my opinion.
At our current rate we will have a hard time having enough players at TE and S to form a basic roster; we must address those two.

Don't forget TJ Slaton on the DL. In my opinion they ideally need at least one more starting caliber player to rotate in, but Slaton did show great progress and flashes at NT.

Carpenter I think is mostly a STs ace. He has done well. Not sure he will ever play on D, but who knows...

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

January 20, 2023 at 06:45 am

Lots of very similar thought to mine, BDU! I look forward to our draft discussions!

We've discussed Tom as a center (and moving Myers to guard) before. (I'll never forgive Gute for taking Myers over Creed Humphrey, who I wanted with our FIRST round pick...). Tom isn't strong enough to be a great guard, but he has the feet and smarts to be a GREAT center. Myers has been very average, and would make a good swing backup if Tom got injured.

I'm glad you brought up B Melton and A Allen, because I regularly drafted BOTH of them in my mock drafts last year! I couldn't believe it when we signed them!
C Jones and R Walker both have as much potential as Nijman did, and I'd love to see one of them develop like he did and eventually, in a couple years, take the right tackle job (maybe with Nijman at left tackle).
I liked the Sean Rhyan pick, so I'm curious to see if he can turn things around. He reminded me a bit of Mark Tauscher.
Then there's Royce Newman.
Started his entire rookie year, so the coaches trusted him, but we all watched him be a weak link. What if he fixes whatever his problem(s) are? He has youth, size and experience; if we can hope for Rhyan, we should also be able to hope for Newman.

When he was a rookie, I predicted Innis Gaines would be a starting safety for us in his third year, but although he's gotten more responsibilities, he'll need to make a big jump to achieve my prediction. Man, I loved his college tape...
Shemar Jean-Charles seems to have fallen out of favor, too bad since the Packer scouts loved him so much.

I think Patrick Taylor is underappreciated; I think he can be a #2 RB. He kind of reminds me of James Starks.

I notice no one is mentioning Jonathan Ford...which is good, because I HATED that pick and couldn't believe they put him on the roster. His college tape was TERRIBLE.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 12:48 pm

Thanks, valid commentary. I thought Rhyan would be scheduled to compete as the RT, since he was a LT for UCLA. I liked Walker as a #7 pick, All Big Ten, 3rd team 2X. I would have used Patrick Taylor, at least 25% more in this offense. He and Gibson were dynamic for Memphis. I would cut the entire right flank from 2022.

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splitpea1's picture

January 19, 2023 at 12:32 pm

Wyatt, Ford, and Nixon--if the last two are re-signed. I would also like to project and wish some hope for Caleb Jones because we could really use someone big and powerful on the offensive line. It would have been to see him get some snaps late in the season once he was activated, but that playoff scenario mirage got in the way.

I think we're going to be needing a lot of hope for the offense as it is likely to be somewhat of a developmental year if certain players decide to sign or agree to play elsewhere.

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coolhand's picture

January 19, 2023 at 01:21 pm

Why Caleb Jones was not on the field in short yardage situations, and especially goal line situations, is beyond me.

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Coldworld's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:43 pm

We don’t do imagination here. Well, Bakh as a TE aside.

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coolhand's picture

January 20, 2023 at 09:10 am

Well Bakh was open, ARod blew the throw. I think Bakh is faster than Big Dog anyway, lol

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Leatherhead's picture

January 19, 2023 at 06:05 pm

Well, a lot of the time he wasn't active. Big is good, but it isn't everything. We'll see if he got better. He should have, but good enough to suit up and play?

We certainly could use a good short yardage play. I'm a 24 blast man, myself. Run behind your two best linemen, lead blocker, TE coming around to push the pile.

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Since'61's picture

January 20, 2023 at 08:49 am

LH I'm right there with you on the 24 Blast. Come to the LOS snap the ball quickly before the defense gets comfortable and run that 24 with the lead blocker right through them. Especially with an RB like
Dillon. Thanks, Since '61

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:19 pm

They should study how John Harbaugh employs his three TEs. The Huntley play, notwithstanding. The brain trust selects Josh Jackson with a two pickin 2019 and Goedert goes to Philly, but the real whiff is Andrews going to the Crows in the third..The Fans were screaming for him, during the draft blog. Carlton Davis to Tampa. The Drafting, as many NFL pundits have remarked, is the biggest problem with the Packers. The game is about replacement, but repairing the same leaks does not make for a steady ship.

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fangirl's picture

January 19, 2023 at 12:42 pm

Nixon, Watson, Doubs, Wyatt, Walker.

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MooPack's picture

January 19, 2023 at 12:46 pm

Zach Tom - I'd like to see him compete with Myers for Center. I thought coming out C would be his best position.

Romeo Doubs - His development depends on Rodgers. Obviously he's had some ups and downs. His "move-the-chains" progress will go along way to solidifying the WR group. I think he allows the Packers to look beyond Lazard and Cobb (as much as I like both).

Quay Walker - I like his nasty attitude. Now temper it a bit after the play. He gets more under control in play and penalties and he is a guy the defense can look to for motivation.

Jordan Love - This has been beat to death. Be done with Rodgers and let the kid start.

Christian Watson - He was my 1st round pick last year, so yeah, sky is the limit. And Rodgers.

I'll add another - Enagbare showed some promise. Still be a good idea to grab another Edge rusher, but so far he is a steal based on the round they got him in.

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 01:00 pm

Enagbare was projected to be as high as a 3rd or late 2nd by some. Injury history caused his fall, but that has been a non-issue so far.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:55 pm

All SEC, 2020.

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Guam's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:20 pm

Concur about Enagbare. He got a lot of playing time this year and should be well poised to make a second year jump. If he does, the Packers will be well set at OLB assuming Gary comes fully back. I believe he will, but it may take half a season before he is full go.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:05 pm

Still need an edge guy by rd three.

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croatpackfan's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:15 pm

It is also interesting that one of the beter run defender was never elevated from PS last season - Clay Slaton. I hope he will further improve so Packers will not need to spare limited draft capital on D lineman.

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:49 pm

It shows the ineptitude of the coaching staff even more

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PeteK's picture

January 19, 2023 at 03:27 pm

Slaton had 23 tkls last season. Are you referring to Chris Slayton, who hasn't made a tkl in the NFL in 3 yrs.

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croatpackfan's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:05 pm

yes. You are right. I typed wrong. I meant guy who played in preseason and was one of better run stopper.

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beautiful_mystery's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:48 pm

Thanks Gill! That is the beauty of the NFL and each team's hope for the upcoming season. I love the draft and more specifically, the build up to it.

I like the 5 you mentioned - they do show promise.

Now, let's get us a TE that can block and run to daylight. Get some big uglies that are momma's boys off the gridiron (Gilbert Brown) but on it, they act like you stole their last funyun and choc-covered Krispy Kreme.

Go Pack Go!

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:50 pm

In my opinion, Title town needs a new Mayer.

Let's go get TE Michael Mayer in the draft. He is a great blocker and great pass catcher

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beautiful_mystery's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:52 pm

I hear ya cluckin', P500! :)

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BradHTX's picture

January 19, 2023 at 07:45 pm

Hard pass. Mayer may turn out to be a decent or even very good player. The positional value just isn’t there to make drafting a tight end in the first round worthwhile. They simply aren’t game changers, for the most part — Gronk (drafted in R2) and career prime Jimmy Graham (R3) aside.

Kyle Pitts
Noah Fant
TJ Hockenson
Hayden Hurst
David Njoku
Evan Engram
OJ Howard
Eric Ebron
Tyler Eifert
Jermaine Gresham

Those are the last ten TEs drafted in the first round. Several were busts, some are good players, but not a one is a game-changing superstar. Even the Pack’s last R1 TE, Bubba Franks, was a good player but hardly worth his first round cost.

In the first round, better to stick with the most important positions: QB, Tackle, Edge, DL. You don’t draft a kicker in the 3rd; don’t draft a TE in the 1st. The ROI just isn’t there compared to a guy you can probably get a couple rounds later.

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:21 pm

Mayer isn't just any TE - he is Notre Dame's all time leader in receiving yards for TEs, and ND has produced some pretty great TEs. The dude is great.

The Packers need more good pass-catchers, and we have a gaping need at TE, so it makes perfect sense. We have tried later round options and cheaper signings, but it is time for a real fix.

Also, I would say that Kyle Pitts is a game-changer, and Hockenson and Engram just needed the right team to unlock their full potential.

I would also say Kelce and Kittle are game changers too.

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Racingdad's picture

January 19, 2023 at 09:01 pm

I see your point I’m warming up to the idea of Meyer - he’s the best in this draft they say he’s a good blocker and very good receiver I hope our scouting staff is doing their homework on all of this he’s ranked in the middle of the first rd in most big boards for a reason

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BradHTX's picture

January 20, 2023 at 12:06 am

“I would also say Kelce and Kittle are game changers too.”

Thank you for making my point. Kelce was drafted in the 3rd round, and Kittle in the 5th.

Arguably the top 10 tight ends of the last 30 years (using 1st and 2nd team All Pro numbers):

Tony Gonzalez, 10x All Pro, 1st round
Travis Kelce, 7x All Pro, 3rd round
Antonio Gates, 5x All Pro, UDFA
Shannon Sharpe, 5x All Pro, 7th round
Rob Gronkowski, 4x All Pro, 2nd round
Jason Witten, 4x All Pro, 3rd round
Ben Coates, 3x All Pro, 5th round
George Kittle, 3x All Pro, 5th round
Greg Olson, 2x All Pro, 1st round
Jimmy Graham, 2x All Pro, 3rd round

2 of 10 were drafted in the 1st. Meanwhile, of the 25 tight ends drafted in the 1st since 2000, 10 have never made a Pro Bowl, let alone been All Pro.

Mayer may well be the next Tony Gonzalez. If he is, sure, it’s worth taking him. But it’s just as likely he’s just the next Noah Fant, and he might be the next O.J. Howard. Players turn out to be busts at every position, but it’s higher for 1st round tight ends than most others.

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Leatherhead's picture

January 19, 2023 at 09:48 pm

---"Even the Pack’s last R1 TE, Bubba Franks, was a good player but hardly worth his first round cost."---

Yeah, those three consecutive Pro Bowls were nothing. Neither was his durability, nor his ability to get his man blocked.

Bubba was a good player for us, and was well worth the pick we used. ' '--

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BradHTX's picture

January 20, 2023 at 08:21 am

Not saying he was garbage, he was a fine player. Not a bust at all, but he also wasn’t elite. He was solid.

2000 was a weak draft for TEs, and the Packers needed one and took the best there was to be had, the only one drafted that year who made a Pro Bowl. The only others taken in the first 3 rounds were Anthony Becht, Erron Kinney and Dustin Lyman (who?).

The only HOFer drafted that year was Urlacher, taken at #9 (and of course Brady in the 6th, the ultimate outlier). But immediately after Franks, the Packers could have had Deltha O’Neal (DEN) or Julian Peterson (SF), both All Pro players, when we were trotting out Antuan Edwards and Bernardo Harris. Peterson had 4 sacks and 2 INTs as a rookie, O’Neal once had 4 INTs in one game (not as a rookie, admittedly).

You can almost always find a better player drafted later for any argument. I’m just saying that of almost all positions, TEs are among the least impactful in general. A truly great one affects games; a solid one doesn’t move the needle as much as other positions do. And draft position has less to do with greatness for TEs than most other positions.

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Leatherhead's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:22 pm

TEs impact the run game, too. As receivers, a top TE can get 80-100 catches and a bunch of TEs. Bubba was the TE in 2003, when we set a team rushing record, and 2004, when we set a team passing record. He never missed games and was a good redzone target.

He was very solid. Three straight Pro Bowls.

Bubba is from the Sweetwater/Big Springs area of Texas, so I've always had kind of a soft spot for him. In my memory, Paul Coffman was an excellent TE. Chmura had a brief stretch, and Keith Jackson for one year. Finley was a guy I called "JerAlmost" because he almost made some amazing catches. Jimmy Graham had one of the best seasons a Packer TE has ever had and we hated him. I'm an Ed West guy.....I want a guy who's never injured, gets his man blocked, and who can catch a pass or two in a game. Lewis would be perfect if he was 10 years younger.

I'm 100% positive we're going to improve our TE position this offseason. But it'll probably be somebody who isn't better than Bubba.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:40 pm

Gotta have the TEs as part of the passing game. There are zero threats from this position on the current squad. Fix it. Mayer, Kincaid, Kraft, one of these guys by round two, then look at LaPorta, Schnoomaker, Musgrave, Durham later in the 4th-5th to fill another spot. They need to bag two. Bubba was the man.

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BradHTX's picture

January 20, 2023 at 03:01 pm

Again, I'm not saying that Bubba wasn't a good player, that the Tight End position isn't important, and that it shouldn't be addressed in the draft (or FA if they can find the money). Nor am I saying Mayer won't be a good player either (no one knows whether he will be great, just good, or mediocre; he probably won't be a total bust).

My argument is entirely against drafting Mayer in the 1st round, because:

1. It's not a position that is as important on the whole as the "premium positions": QB, OT, Edge, DL, DB.

2. The Packers have bigger needs at some of those premium positions (Edge, DL, DB) that are likely to have a greater impact on games than a TE. It's a need, I just don't see it as the biggest need they have.

3. Greatness at among TEs is less tied to draft position. More of the all-time greats of the last 30 years were drafted in rounds 2-4 or even 5+ than round 1. You have just as much of a chance of hitting on a generational talent in later rounds as you do in the 1st. The ability to transition from college to the NFL is just more of a crap shoot at the position.

4.. It's a position where the drop-off in talent is not as steep from R1 to R2 and beyond. A Tight End drafted in the 3rd is likely closer in talent to one drafted in the 1st than would be the case for, say, a WR.

5. Busts happen at every position, but TEs seem to have a higher bust rate than most positions, except maybe QB.

Some of this is anecdotal; beyond checking the draft position of the top 10 TEs and the success of all 1st round TEs since 2000, I have not looked at the success rates by round for all positions. Maybe someone has somewhere. It would be an interesting (if lengthy) exercise.

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wiremans12's picture

January 19, 2023 at 02:52 pm

It makes no sense to continue the rebuild with a 40yr old QB who doesn't want to be here anyways both sides need to renegotiate his contract so it's more trade friendly it happens all the time it can be done so do it .

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Racingdad's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:51 pm

His contract is kinda trade friendly now gb can not get out of the dead cap hits -41 mil now-68 mil after 23 and 74 mil after 24 season and the dead cap is money already paid to him but counted against cap in future But his actually salary is a lot lower so trades would be easy for the other team he would have to redo his contract with new team I say just do it now

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NickPerry's picture

January 20, 2023 at 06:19 am

I'm with you. At this point I'd take a 1st or a 2nd and a 3rd to get AWAY from that contract ASAP. Sure, the Packers look like the biggest IDIOTS ever, but the whole would already KNOWS this to be true...Yes Mark Murphy, I'm looking directly at you!

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NickPerry's picture

January 20, 2023 at 06:19 am

I'm with you. At this point I'd take a 1st or a 2nd and a 3rd to get AWAY from that contract ASAP. Sure, the Packers look like the biggest IDIOTS ever, but the whole would already KNOWS this to be true...Yes Mark Murphy, I'm looking directly at you!

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Leatherhead's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:26 pm

He doesn't want to be part of a rebuild. He's said that.

His contract is trade friendly. He'll cost the acquiring team almost nothing., but we save almost nothing this season by cutting him. This was done intentionally, IMO.

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PeteK's picture

January 19, 2023 at 03:16 pm

--Bak 4th round, could we strike gold again with another 4th rounder in Tom. They are a similar size. I tend to be patient with young O linemen because they take time to develop, and we have a many ( 6 rookies). However, another one in later rounds that our scouts like would be good.
--It was imperative to see Wyatt and Slaton improve, but we still need another good DT. I'm fed up with our poor run defense.

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Leatherhead's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:28 pm

We often go for Day 3 Olinemen. Sitton, Lang, Bakhtiari, Tauscher, Tom, Bakhtiari.........

We need to be able to suit up 9 capable offensive linemen. I think we're about halfway right now.

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Swisch's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:22 pm

It's asking a lot of Jordan Love to sit on the bench a fourth season, too much, in my opinion.
If the clueless Packers execs insist on groveling before the self-absorbed Aaron Rodgers yet again -- after the past three seasons ended with a heartbreaking loss at Lambeau Field -- then at least set Love free to play for an organization with a little dignity and a measure of common sense.
Love, it seems, has been nothing but cooperation and patience and class -- and if the Packers aren't wise enough to utilize him as a starter in 2023, then he deserves a better team that appreciates him.
***
That this is even a question is really depressing for me as a fan regarding the integrity and even the future success of the team I love.
Even a Super Bowl victory with arrogant Rodgers in melodramatic and domineering prima donna mode would be unsatisfying for me, actually sad.
However, when we sell out dignity for success, we're likely to end up losing at both. Actually, that's what's happened again and again and again under Rodgers, as a matter of record.
First, he slaps us in the face in the offseason with his aloofness off the field, then punches us in the gut with his failures on the field to fritter away another season.
***
At the least we can make it clear this is unacceptable to most fans.
As far as I know, CHTV is the only place online where we the fans have an opportunity to voice our views.
If I was an executive with the Packers, I wouldn't base my decisions on the fans, but I wouldn't ignore them, either. I'd give a good listen to good fans at CHTV, and anywhere else I could find them.
Often, it's people in the real world -- outside the bubble of timid and sycophantic babble -- who provide an invaluable perspective.

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MainePackFan's picture

January 19, 2023 at 07:24 pm

Swisch, you know I have much respect for you, but I can't agree with what you just wrote.
I don't care about Jordan Love's feelings any more than I care about Rodgers feelings. They're big boys playing a big boy game. They know how it works.

The Packers execs are not clueless. They know exactly what's going on. They made a mistake drafting Jordan Love and they will admit that mistake this year. They can only hope that they are bailed out by someone that see's Love the same way they saw him when they drafted him. This is nothing against Jordan Love.

WE have not sold out our dignity. I'm sure your dignity doesn't come from whatever the Packers FO decides to do with this team. Whatever the FO decides to do, our dignity will be intact.

I get that you and many others here, and throughout the football world, hate Aaron Rodgers. Free Country, do as you please.

Blaming Rodgers and Rodgers alone for everything that has not happened over the last 12 years (SB victory) is the epitome of intellectual dishonesty. Hate him if you want, but Aaron Rodgers is a big reason why this franchise has been so successful over the last 18 years. That's a fact my friend.

Good article today by Bill Huber (hardly a AR sycophant ) it's a good read. Should make all Rodgers hating Packers fans take a second and reflect on why they hate him so much.

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EnemyTerritory's picture

January 19, 2023 at 07:46 pm

My jaw dropped and out flowed numerous profanities when Goodell trotted out and said Jordan love. However, three years o I disagree it was a mistake and now view the pick more favorably. QB12 was not good in the two years before he was reenergized inn20/21 and 21/22. One could speculate that given the lack of all in shown by QB12 that he’d have given us more of 2022/23,18/19 & 20/21. So far QB12 gives no indication he’s gonna be all in next year either. That means OTAs and TEAM not MVP (their is no I in Team or Super Bowl). Given the Favre saga the Love pick appears a prudent planning move in the mirror…

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Swisch's picture

January 19, 2023 at 09:27 pm

Maine, sincere disagreement can be a good thing for productive debate and getting the best results; however, I hope you'll reconsider the idea that to criticize Aaron Rodgers is to hate him.
I don't hate Aaron. I've been a big fan of his over the years, and even though I don't like the way he has treated the Packers and us as fans, I still want good things for him. I continue to root for Aaron Rodgers as a player and a person.
The thing is that I don't like Rodgers pushing us around as fans, holding us hostage to his whims, acting like it's all about him with seemingly little to no regard for us.
***
We're losing free speech in America because of a dirty trick by superficial and unscrupulous people to call anyone who disagrees with them a hater.
Maine, I don't count you as one of those people who play dirty, and I hope you'll rethink your words as far as calling people haters.
Good people can disagree. Intelligent people can disagree. Religious people can disagree. Experts can disagree. Gentlemen and ladies can disagree. Patriotic Americans can disagree.
I do hope we're all searching for the truth, and for the best solutions within the truth, even when we disagree.
To disagree robustly but respectfully is necessary for democracy. Let's not be intimidated and manipulated to give up our right to free expression just because of a cynical ruse to call good people bigoted rubes if they don't go along with the party line.
All the best to you, Maine, and thanks to you and anyone else for any real consideration of my words.
I fear we're losing the principles of America, and that's a tragedy for all the world. If our nation as a beacon of freedom goes dark, then it seems people of good will all around the world will suffer terribly.
***
What other people do doesn't diminish my dignity -- unless I go along with those who are acting badly.
It's hard to justify what Rodgers is doing to the Packers and us as fans, it seems to me, and it's important to me as one who has cared deeply about the Packers for more than a half-century to speak out against what Rodgers is up to.
It doesn't help anyone, including Rodgers, to enable him in arrogant and domineering and selfish behavior.
A true friend is willing to offer kind correction, sometimes even a kick in the ass, as a matter of real caring.

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MooPack's picture

January 19, 2023 at 10:25 pm

Iron sharpens iron.

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MainePackFan's picture

January 20, 2023 at 10:58 am

Swisch, I appreciate your well thought out response.

In the context of conversation the words love and hate are thrown around all the time. When I say someone hates Rodgers, it's more in the context of "I hate salmon loaf", not in any silence free speech political sense. You and I have cordially debated this subject more than once, and I know you realize that I don't mean hate in the literal sense.

That being said ; )

Hate: from the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
a: intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury.

That seems like a pretty accurate description of how some feel about Rodgers. If you read through your original post I responded to, you may see examples of this :)

Back to football.

The Packers and Rodgers met for two days. Both parties know exactly where they stand. It doesn't take 2 days to say "What are you thinking Aaron"..."I'll let you know Brian".

Rodgers pretty much told us on the McAfee show if we read between the lines.
1. He thinks the Packers are only a couple players away.
2. He feels he can still play at an MVP level.
3. He see's no reason to come back unless he feels they can win it all.
4. He knows at some point you have to get off the carousel.

Translation: get me some playmakers, keep a couple of my guys and we go forward.
If the team's visions don't match up with his, he is open to a trade. No hard feelings, it's on to the next chapter. That's business.

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Swisch's picture

January 20, 2023 at 12:17 pm

Ick, salmon loaf! I'm not sure what that is, but it sounds terrible.
***
We can care about people in a heartfelt way, and yet in honesty be highly critical of them.
What Aaron Rodgers has been doing to the Packers is outrageously selfish and unfair, in my opinion, and deserves to be called out with conviction.
While I'm angry with Rodgers, not a trace of hate in me for him, only best wishes and sincere prayers.
***
Agree or disagree, I'm glad for cordial discussions with other good Packers fans like yourself, Maine.
Please pardon me if I'm overly sensitive these days about the way the word hate is being tossed around these days so recklessly, to the point of being used as a weapon for censorship and ostracization.
I just saw Tony Dungy speaking out for the importance of all human lives at the March for Life in Washington, D.C. -- which I attended forty years ago as a college student in 1983 -- and then the news anchors said he was actually taking heat for publicly expressing such a basic belief of simple beauty.
Here I thought that all biologically human lives truly matter as equally priceless and irreplaceable in worth. Isn't it the foundation of America in the Declaration of Independence?
This world is so sad at times as to be almost unbearable.
***
At such times, I like to remind myself of the movie, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington," with the message that lost causes are the ones most worth fighting for -- and because of one simple rule: Love thy neighbor.

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MainePackFan's picture

January 20, 2023 at 03:15 pm

LOL. It was terrible. My Mom was an awesome cook but it was the one thing she made that I couldn't stand. The rest of the Fam liked it so stayed on the menu.

"What Aaron Rodgers has been doing to the Packers is outrageously selfish and unfair, in my opinion, and deserves to be called out with conviction."

Opinion accepted but not concurred with : )

As far as the rest of what you wrote I do concur. You're a good person Swisch. The world is filled with good people. Way more good people than bad. Unfortunately, it is the evil that controls the narrative. I could say a lot more, but I would much rather discuss the Packers and the evil of Aaron Rodgers here at CHTV ; )

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Racingdad's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:55 pm

I agree but it would be not cool if we traded love and he went on to be a great qb on another team

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Since'61's picture

January 20, 2023 at 09:54 am

Swisch you continue to think of these situations on an emotional level. The NFL is business, big business.

Do you think that Vince Lombardi or Mike Holmgren took any advice from the fans??? You think the Packers sell shares of stock because they want the fans to actually act as shareholders function in a real for profit corporation???
They want to raise capital and send us their glorified thank you cards called shares. Those of us who have purchased shares have zero input into how the money raised during the sale is actually used. In fact the Packers have a strict limit on the number of shareholders any one person can own to deliberately prevent the from happening. See my post from another thread where I wrote about Shareholder rights earlier this week. We're fans, enjoy the games or not, end of story.

Speaking for myself I didn't lose any dignity during the 70s or 80s I'm certainly not going to lose any dignity over the Packers now.

As for losing dignity under Rodgers, that makes no sense since Rodgers isn't in charge of anything. It's Murphy, Gute and MLF who have had multiple opportunities over the years to end the drama with Rodgers. They could have let him go to FA at least twice since Gute has become GM or they could have traded him at any time since Rodgers has never had and has never asked for a no trade contract. Instead they have signed him to increasingly expensive cap eating contracts. Which brings me back to my point about the NFL being a business.

Murphy and Gute are businessmen. At least they are supposed to be in terms of negotiating contracts with their players. On the other side there is Rodgers the businessman and Rodger's agent, also a businessman. Based on the results of the contracts offered to Rodgers since 2018 the Packers businessmen are having their butts kicked by Rodgers and his agent. In fact what we see from Packers management in handling Aaron Rodgers is a microcosm of what we see from the team on the field. A poorly managed, poorly prepared, poorly led team with little sense of urgency, physically weak compared with their opponents and little to no mental toughness to deal with adversity in critical games and situations. We see stupid decisions by players pushing medical personnel and another player pushing the ball around before it is snapped for an FG. WTF??? decisions on the field similar to the WTF??? decisions we have seen from the FO and the coaching staff during the Murphy/Gute era.

As for us the fans we're not part of the negotiations with Rodgers or anyone else that goes on at 1265. We are literally nowhere in this process. As fans we choose to watch the games either at Lambeau or on a monitor somewhere. We cheer, we boo, we grumble whatever, we go home or we shut off the TV and we're done.

If we're losing our dignity over any of this we should not be watching and more importantly we should not be fans of the team. We have numerous other choices that we can make regarding which team to be fans of and which form of entertainment we choose to attend or watch from home. so if anyone is losing their dignity that's on that person not on Rodgers. Any of us can choose to walk away any time we want. Rodger is not holding a gun to any of our heads or to the heads of the Packers organization. The FO are adults, they're responsible and should be accountable for their decisions. That's just reality in both life and business in the real world. If they're not accountable or won't be accountable that's on them. The essential problem is no one is holding Murphy accountable.

In the end this too shall pass. It is a temporary situation. Rodgers will either be traded, or retire, and be out of Green Bay one way or the other. Even the 70s and 80s were a temporary situation, although we didn't realize it at the time. Packer football will go on without Aaron Rodgers for better or for worse. Whether or not we enjoy it or lose our dignity over it is an up to each of us as individuals. Thanks, Since '61

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marpag1's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:30 pm

This is weird, especially the comment section. It's your best players that give the team hope for next year. People are going on about Rudy Ford and Caleb Jones and Rasheed Walker, and meanwhile Jaire has not yet been mentioned.

OK.

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Coldworld's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:45 pm

I think the focus was one ones emerging, at least that’s how took it.

I think we forget Wyatt. He was improving rapidly late in and already an upgrade on Lowery

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Fubared's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:36 pm

The team needs a hell of a lot more then those guys. They are not carrying this team. Watson has proved nothing yet and Doubs who knows what his future holds.
I still think the bigger issue is why doesnt Gutt spend time looking at a prospects intellegence. Were getting people who cant learn the playbook and who take a lot of time learning what to do where skills and instincts and intellegence would solve that.
Walker was lost most of the season and is too dumb to not stop shoving civilians. Wyatt barely played. Either he came it terribly out of shape or just didnt get coaching.
Doubs who knows what his skill is and Love, if he was the next Rodgers they may have traded Rodgers or said no to his fat contract.

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stockholder's picture

January 19, 2023 at 04:59 pm

I object to number 2. It should have been Wyatt.
Jordan Love is old news. He's lost his only start!
And I just can't understand why you Hate Rodgers.
Please Take Gutey for his words.
1. WE MADE A COMMENTMENT to ACR!
2. We're going with the best guy we think will WIN!!!!
3. Jordan Love is ready to play. OK! after 3 years, Great.
4. We don't know if Jordan Love can go a !6 game schedule! ??
Do you people really understand the difference between
why Gutey said that about Love? I can; Love is a back-up plan!
You can't read anything more into this than Flynn!!!

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beautiful_mystery's picture

January 19, 2023 at 05:06 pm

Tina, please ask stock.

"What's Love Got to Do With It"?

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:28 pm

Love lost his only start in what was his rookie season, basically (remember 2020 was lost b/c of injury).
Studying for 3 years under one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game is an irreplaceable experience.
We will never know whether Love can handle 17 games until we play him for 17 games. End of story.
We made a commitment to AR. So what? I read somewhere that his contract is designed to accomodate his volatile future with all of the option bonuses and other options. People change their minds. Players often get cut before their contracts expire. Heck, Rodgers doesn't even know if he wants to return to GB in 2023!

Also, Love looked very good this season. I don't think there is any game that Rodgers played (other than perhaps the Cowboys game) that we could have won without Love. Rodgers, for a guy who is supposed to be playing like an MVP, did not do very well.
In a trade with Denver, we probably could have even done better this year had we received all the draft picks and players Seattle did.

I do not hate Rodgers; I actually like him very much. However, just as we had to move on from Favre and just as other teams had to move on from Montana, Unitas, and Manning, we need to know when to move on.
Going with Rodgers for 2023 will drive us into a future ditch and establish us as a bottom feeder for years to come, not to mention being uncompetitive in 2023.

We need to get out of the mess we are careening headfirst into while we can. Trade Rodgers, dump Jones, Bakh, and Smith (for cap reasons) and get younger and rebuild for a year. Then, we'll see

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Racingdad's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:35 pm

Sorry I totally agree with your whole post. That other post was meant for a different spot

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Racingdad's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:33 pm

Just stop with the love hate

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EaracheTorkelson's picture

January 19, 2023 at 05:49 pm

Watson.... Impact for sure
Walker... tough guy, mean, LINBACKER
Nixon...strong fearless runbacks,
Doubs... skilled route runner
Love... young big arm

Runyan...wide steady
Slayton... push pocket
Wyatt...quick instinctive
Enagbare... long tall discipline
Gary... back with vengeance

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Leatherhead's picture

January 19, 2023 at 06:59 pm

I think the Packers have a very good core of players on their rookie deals who'll be back next year.

Watson, Doubs, Toure, Deguara, Dillon, Runyan, Tom, Myers, Slaton, Wyatt, Walker, Stokes, Enagbare. Add that to the veterans who'll be back like Clark, Campbell, Douglas, PSmith, Gary, Jenkins, Bakhtiari, Savage, Nijman, Alexander,and we're looking at over 20 of our core players. Add in our 3 Special Teams players, two QBs and some help in the draft and we have 80% of our Game Day roster. And this isn't counting guys who were on the practice squad last year who might have improved enough to dress out and play.

I think we're in pretty good position for 2023. 2022, not so much. But in terms of where we start, and what we start with, I'd rather be Green Bay than quite a few other teams out there.

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Racingdad's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:32 pm

23 million over cap without signing our own fa’s

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Leatherhead's picture

January 19, 2023 at 09:39 pm

Yeah, we're over the cap. It sounds like a lot. Spotrac has us at $15 million over the projected 2023 cap, and trading Jones would erase more than half of that. We're not going to have to cut good, young players for salary cap reasons.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

January 20, 2023 at 06:59 am

I almost wrote a similar post, Leatherhead.
This roster (assuming we restructure-and-return a few of the vets) is still capable of winning the division. We may no longer be the favorite, but there are a lot of good players returning. Honestly, I'm much more concerned about the coaching.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:04 pm

No doubt, the team's weakest link.

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beautiful_mystery's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:04 pm

Question: how many up votes does a person need to cash in on some CHTV bling? Is there a chart showing the inventory and points needed to select an item(s)?

Thanks in advance

*I am mildly surprised how I climbed the ranks so quickly. Thanks to everyone that made this possible. :)

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beautiful_mystery's picture

January 19, 2023 at 09:16 pm

Okay, so far...I got one down vote. Hmmm, this may be tougher than I thought? Can down votes be used for a #12 jersey and up votes for a #10 jersey. Not sure how this works...

Asking for my nephew. We're not real close, but he is blood and I would like to get him something.

Okay, nitey night... don't let the bed bugs bite.

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dobber's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:06 pm

With Ed Donatell being let loose by the Vikes, how many others here are thinking it's possible that a certain former interim coach of a local Big Ten team will end up in Minnesota as DC?

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beautiful_mystery's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:08 pm

Nooooooooo! Hell, nooooooooo! Don't throw that out into the universe dobber! :)

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PackyCheese500's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:29 pm

My guess is that Leonhard either takes a year off or goes to USC. I think it is likely he remains at the college level. Maybe he even wants to be a HC somewhere, who knows

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Racingdad's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:30 pm

That would really suck when we are stuck with mlf’s buddy barry

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beautiful_mystery's picture

January 19, 2023 at 08:52 pm

This is going to be an interesting off season. Not just the Packers, but the Lions, Vikes and Bears as well.

I am starting to feel the very real strain, the tension of it all. I better not dream I am TJ Rubley and asked to go in the game. If I am, I better just hand it off. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THROWING THE BALL...UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES.

zzzzzZZZZZZZZ.......shit, sorry coach!

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SinceLombardi's picture

January 20, 2023 at 06:20 am

This is one shaky list. The best player on it ( Watson)has a hands problem and seems injury prone.
Ditto Romeo Doubs.
Quay Walker brought shame to the entire organization and brought to light the lack of discipline on Matt LaFluers team.
Jordan Love may sit for another year and even if he doesn’t , it’s a roll of the dice. I can’t get past the fact that we moved up in the draft to grab a guy that sat for three years.
Zack Tom looks like he has potential. But no matter how he plays next year it won’t make much difference with all the holes and cap problems this team has.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

January 20, 2023 at 06:49 am

I like Mayer, but I like Dalton Kincaid MORE. Currently, most mocks have him going after the Packers' second-round pick, so he's my favorite target for that one, but I won't be surprised he goes earlier. He reminds me a bit of Mark Andrews, who was my favorite TE that year (despite most "experts" putting him as the fifth or worse TE in that crop).

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stockholder's picture

January 20, 2023 at 11:04 am

Taking a TE early is a Need.
Find the game changer at #1 first.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:52 pm

It is a necessity.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:51 pm

Yes, the Andrews reference has brought back bad draft memories. Kincaid as a high two pick. Some have him going round one. If he is gone, look at Tucker Kraft. They need a separation guy more than an Inline blocker. Get another guy later in the 4th -5th.

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stockholder's picture

January 20, 2023 at 10:48 pm

You don't want slow! We had Rodgers.

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PackEyedOptimist's picture

January 20, 2023 at 07:09 am

Doubs is a real wild card; I see him as having a ceiling of being a good #1 receiver, but having a floor of an inconsistent #4. I wish Davante Adams was around to help him develop, because he has some similar skills to "early Adams."

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Since'61's picture

January 20, 2023 at 09:08 am

We can agree or disagree on the 5 players who gives hope for next season. The real issue is who are the 5 coaches who give us hope for next season?
I'm done after Bisaccia.

I just don't have a high degree of confidence in this coaching staff to get the job done based on who has been hired as assistants, the lack of preparation, the poor in game decisions/adjustments and sticking with players like Amari Rodgers and Lowry for far too long. Speaking for myself I just see too much stupid football at a professional level to have a good feeling about the coaching staff regardless of who is on the field.

Rodgers can be blamed for everything but Amari Rodgers, Dean "puff a lump" Lowry, Hanson, Menenga then Drayton, Joe Barry!!! Our goal line/short yardage play calls!! It makes it difficult for me to take these guys seriously. Thanks, Since '61

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 20, 2023 at 01:54 pm

4th and Inches...

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