Extra Cheese: I find some Packers fans lack of faith disturbing

Aaron chats with Packers fans on Star Wars day.

Earlier today, I held my Packers chat over on our YouTube channel, talking all things Green and Gold. 

Be sure to subscribe to the channel if you'd like to participate in future chats.

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Comments (57)

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Barnacle's picture

May 05, 2020 at 06:19 am

I find having faith in Gute disturbing. A bad draft, a high risk crippling contract extension and then pissing off the best player on the team has “bad judgment” written all over it.

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4zone's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:28 am

At first glance, I might have agreed with you but after looking at the draft as a whole, I see something totally different; unexpected yes, but not bad by any means. Actually, I think it was brilliant. It took the entire NFL off guard. GB has been a dominant pass first offense for decades now, but Gute and MLF saw something different and went with it and no one else saw it coming. We drafted highly specialized people to fill specific rolls that takes pressure off AR and the WRs which will only make them better. We won't need as many yards from them but, their catches should be more effective.

Now that teams will have to load the box more, this will also open up more deep opportunities as well. We stocked up on OL depth and future starters making future signings of high dollar OL UFAs less necessary if they pan out.

And how much difference would only a few 3rd and 1 conversions have made in the past. Now we have someone who is a viable threat there as well as a pass catcher out of the backfield and a breakaway threat. Can't wait to see him and Jones in the backfield together. Getting goose bumps already.

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DraftHobbyist's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:49 am

What Draft are you talking about? I know it can't be this one, because obviously not liking a Draft doesn't equate to it being bad. Was it the Draft where Gute took Gary, Savage, Jenkins and Sternberger on days 1 and 2?

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Nate-1980's picture

May 05, 2020 at 03:53 pm

With ya Barnacle, Nagler has a strange outlook on things, hardly ever agree with him.. This draft seems so bad and “ they locked onto guys and reached”.. Maybe they’ll turn out to be playmakers and prove me wrong, but it seems we passed on better players..It made me go back and look at Gute’s drafting as a whole..He seemed brilliant in his first draft dropping back and getting that additional first pick.. He strengthened our defense with some pretty good picks, and nailed FA with defensive talent..Then came Gary at 12, I won’t consider him a bust, but he has bust written all over him, again, I hope I’m wrong.. Sure we can change our offensive philosophy, but we needed an additional threat as a pass catcher..Yeah Devin the savior, yup high hopes.. This organization is riding on this last two drafts, and to me, they don’t seem strong.. If/when these picks turn into a waste, I hope that there is a house cleaning from top to bottom... Like many have said, we have a great qb, why not support him( not only with a running game where we had the top scoring rb in tds already)..I love this team, but don’t have much faith in the Fo..If this doesn’t work out and we lose Rodgers, we could be the Bengals for years..:( People don’t appreciate Aaron on here at all, he’s still a winner, so frustrating..

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jannes bjornson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 08:54 pm

Name the better players.

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Samson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 09:02 pm

He won't respond otherwise he would have already stated their names..... All his posts are trollish.

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dobber's picture

May 06, 2020 at 07:29 am

"If this doesn’t work out and we lose Rodgers, we could be the Bengals for years"

This team has already lost the Rodgers that can carry a franchise. That Rodgers last played in 2016. This is a different player.

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Mike Rossmeier's picture

May 05, 2020 at 06:54 am

If you look at last season, there were several games that required end of game heroics for the Packers to slip by.
I think LaFleur wants to control the game more, more time-of-possession, limit the Defense time on the field, and if they're still behind, he still has Rodgers to try for some come-from-behind game winners - but limit those situations.

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dobber's picture

May 05, 2020 at 08:30 am

The Packers were 6th best in the league in TOP in 2019.

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Coldworld's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:38 am

Dobber, while I respect your point of view, the team I watched held on for dear life in too many games. Both main points can coexist. Control is about more than time of possession.

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dobber's picture

May 05, 2020 at 12:45 pm

Sure, we agree on efficiency and quality of play. TOP is a zero sum game, and the comment here was about keeping the defense off the field. The Packers' 31:20 average TOP would be between 4th and 7th in the league each of the last 6 years. Recent history indicates there's not a lot of room to go up in terms of TOP...but I think we'd all like to see the quality of play be better.

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GLM's picture

May 05, 2020 at 01:33 pm

The way to improve would be 3rd down conversion rate.

I would also point to red zone scoring...more touchdowns vs. field goals, and actually coming away with points. Winning in short yardage situations, too.

Fewer 3rd and longs...these all go hand in hand.

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The_Justicar's picture

May 06, 2020 at 02:28 pm

Maybe time of possession is misleading as Rodgers likes to run playclock down to zero and thus inflating our TOP?

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Mike Rossmeier's picture

May 05, 2020 at 11:17 am

Good point. Didn't realize that, but it just seems like so many plays with Rodgers running the clock down to 0, and the result still being an incompletion or throwaway. I'd rather see them eat up clock with runs and completions.

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CkPacFan's picture

May 05, 2020 at 09:01 pm

I agree, I think it's all part of LaFleurs grand plan.

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Guam's picture

May 05, 2020 at 08:09 am

I can still be an avid Packer fan without suspending my judgement. This year's draft is inconsistent with a "win now" mode that I would prefer given Rodgers' closing window. I am not a fan of Kool Aid......

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4zone's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:32 am

Disagree, these changes may have given us our best shot at another Lombardi trophy for AR in his regression years. Should help protect him while taking a load off his back and making his opportunities more effective. Bank it folks, GB is going to pond people this year.

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Coldworld's picture

May 05, 2020 at 12:52 pm

I thought that after the draft. I’m less sure now. The changes, if they work out, are possibly going to make this roster more effective this year than a marquee receiver would have.

Partly that is because I don’t rate those left by the end of round 1 as highly and feel that the O was stale and predictable not just lacking WR talent and partly because I think it may allow us to get more out of what we do have and dovetail better with our defensive approach. The big if for me is can LaFleur deliver. He was horribly out coached at times last year. Part of that may be that it wasn’t his system.

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Guam's picture

May 05, 2020 at 11:33 am

I hope you are right CW. I just can't believe that Jordan Love holding a clipboard on the bench is better for 2020 than Denzel Mims or Ross Blacklock on the playing field. I also felt Deguara was a reach that could have been had in the fourth round if Gute had not traded that pick away for Love.

I keep imagining a draft of Mims, Dillon, 3rd round pick (IDL?), and Deguara and asking myself how much more of a shot at a SB would we have had versus having Love on the bench. Oh well, it is what it is.

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Coldworld's picture

May 05, 2020 at 12:57 pm

Love is, right or wrong, a “too good to miss regardless of time” kind of pick. I don’t argue that. If they are right, justified, but not in the context of this year. Overall, my point was intended to address the draft as a whole (despite the Love pick).

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Guam's picture

May 05, 2020 at 05:28 pm

I find it hard to separate the draft as a whole from the Love pick since your #1 pick often defines your draft. That said, no one knows how Love will work out and we can only hope it is close to as well as the Rodgers pick 15 years ago.

I believe the Packers needed a strong #1 pick to gain parity with the 49ers and Saints in 2020 and they picked a guy who won't play for at least two years. I am disappointed that the organization choose to limit our chances in 2020 in exchange for the future. I understand why they did it, I just don't agree.

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Coldworld's picture

May 05, 2020 at 06:23 pm

And I get that. I have my doubts over the LaFleur decision. Copying isn’t a wining strategy. That said, running somebody else’s system likely isn’t either. Only time will tell if LaFleur can develop his own distinct and successful variant. Not saying he can’t, just that I look at him as a draft pick yet to get into his stride.

I look back and think that it should have been obvious this was coming. They reshape the D last year after LaFleur decided to stick with Pettine. Murphy hired La Fleur to install his vision an reinvigorate ... so next draft: he has the O very clearly reshaped in LaFleur’s image.

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Guam's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:11 pm

Agree that this is clearly a reimagination of the offense via MLF and he does need different personnel to run his offense than MM needed to run his. A second premium WR is far less important to MLF's scheme than to McCarthy's. Perhaps we should have seen this coming.

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marpag1's picture

May 06, 2020 at 06:56 am

Your opinion is perfectly fair, Guam. But personally I suspect that you might be overrating the first or second year impact of late first, early second round WRs. Barnwell did a nice article on this specifically referencing the Packers, and Barnwell is definitely not "drinking the Kool Aid." FWIW, check it out here: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113276/2020-nfl-draft-surprises-wh...

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Packerpasty's picture

May 05, 2020 at 07:18 pm

"if they workout"....yup...an unknown but many Kool aid drinkers seem to already know...they will be starters and probably all rookie team if not all pros....

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Point-Packer's picture

May 05, 2020 at 09:53 am

I found your blind faith in the Green Bay Packer organization disturbing. The same entity that held onto Ted Thompson three years too long and Dom Capers for god knows how many years too long, and in the process probably denied GB another SB.

Shawn Slocum.

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Coldworld's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:42 am

I have next to no faith in Murphy in the context of leadership of football operations. What happened between 2015 and the appointment of Gute is beyond any legitimate defense. That this robbed Rodgers and us of the chance to win out through half his best years due to the need to recover is undeniable.

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Nate-1980's picture

May 05, 2020 at 03:24 pm

Point packer, exactly, for some on here the management can’t and will never do wrong.. People that look at this draft as suspect, and wrong are apparently just Debbie downers.. Guess my new name is Debbie..

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Point-Packer's picture

May 05, 2020 at 09:45 pm

I dated a "Debbie" in college. Whoo boy was she fun..

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Since'61's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:04 am

I don’t believe that any fan(s) have a lack of faith. The off-season particularly post draft is the time of the year for thinking about and questioning the off-season moves our team management has made to improve the team.

Speaking for myself I realized early on that our limited cap space was going to restrict our FA activity this year. Therefore, I was hoping that the draft would provide an impact player for 2020, specifically at WR. That did not happen.

So the next question is, OK so what did we get out of the Draft?

It is not a knock on any of the players selected to question how much of an impact they will make in 2020. It is not a lack of faith either. But even the Packers admit that Love is a pick for the future.

As for Dillon and Deguara, they cannot be considered blue or red chip players at this point. Will they contribute in 2020? Maybe. Will they both successfully adjust to the speed and size of NFL players? Will it take 2 or more seasons for them to fully realize their potential? These are legitimate thoughts and questions for the off season. I would prefer to have a lack of faith rather than a lack of thinking.

I would also argue that the fans who seriously care about their team are the fans who think and ask questions versus the blind faith fans who believe that everything the team does is fine.

Most importantly it is the discourse that makes this such a great blog. If we all just went along with everything we would not have much of a blog. Thanks, Since ‘61

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greengold's picture

May 05, 2020 at 11:57 am

I agree with much of what you're saying here, Since.

One thing I would caution against is the possibility of lumping those who believe what the team has done as being "fine," may have disagreed with what happened in this draft initially, for example, but then DID/DO ask questions, and that some do not have anything close to the "blind faith" you're intimating here.

Maybe they've gathered more information on what is occurring and have formed their opinions after taking all of that in. Just because one's opinion might appear to fit this notion of "blind faith," doesn't mean they don't seriously care, or that they haven't put the time and effort in to form their own best opinions. Just because one agrees with what the team is doing, doesn't mean their agreement wasn't well discerned, nor that they care less as you've projected here, nor that they are just cheerleaders, and that their opinion doesn't matter. Going down that path can prove misguided and disingenuous, though I get what you are saying for those who just love what the team does in blanket fashion, without discernment and consideration.

There are some great football minds in this CHTV group of Packer fans, some more connected to those in the real know than others, some with far more game playing experience, personnel experience, talent evaluation experience etc than others.

Those questions you asked are legitimate. But, don't think because one might be excited about the possibility of what a new player might be able to contribute to the team that that person has done so without thinking or without putting in some work to ask pointed questions and get trusted answers that may be shared here... Just seems off the mark. You've intimated some pretty broad assumptions about others and their opinions here, and knowing of you, quite possibly unwittingly..

You're absolutely right that the discourse is great from the wide range of perspectives, and I do believe the passion of Packer fans for their team, and platforms like CHTV which allow that kind of insight and discourse sets Packers fans apart from many in the NFL in terms of their overall knowledge of the game. Kudos.

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Dragon5's picture

May 05, 2020 at 01:47 pm

Excellent post Since'61

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Nate-1980's picture

May 05, 2020 at 03:55 pm

Well said 61, agree..

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Samson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 04:43 pm

'61
I won't give you your usual "okie-dokie" that too many seem to shower you with... Blind faith fans resist the attitude that they know better than the selectively hired, highly paid & experienced people like Gute & MLF truly are for the Pack. --- I trust them because they are on the inside.

Fans like you, myself & all the rest are on the outside looking in.... We can only draw conclusions after the fact & in hindsight..... Most importantly, we have nothing to lose with our evaluations.... Nothing is on the line for any of us.

This blog... Love most of the articles & some of the discourse.... but it still is a haven for trolls.

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Coldworld's picture

May 05, 2020 at 06:37 pm

We have no way of seeing the future and little Verifiable insight into the details of the past in Lambeau.

I have no issue with people trusting based on a reasoned thought process any more than I do with distrust.

For me, blind faith is usually apparent when there is no reason only asserted beliefs recited over and over. Blind faith requires the rejection of other senses. There has been plenty of that on both sides since the draft.

If I know one thing, I will be wrong about many things, maybe everything and so may be the owner of the eyes reading this. The point surely is to enjoy talking about the team we love, debate a bit, share insights, and maybe learn a bit along the way?

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Samson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 07:00 pm

This blind faith fan has experienced most (not all) of GB's NFL Championships... That's 13 total... The next teams are the Bears & Giants at 8 championships (Steelers, Redskins & Pats are at six a piece)... The Pack are the only franchise with more than 10% of all NFL championships in a 100 season league.....--- I'll play the odds any day that Gute/MLF know what they're doing. --- No franchise will ever catch the Pack.

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Samson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 09:59 pm

You're missing a very important point... Not all fans are the same... This is a Packer blog, not a general NFL blog... All the negativity that exists here is not only extreme but serves no purpose...I grew up in Wisconsin a long time ago... You were a Packer Fan or you simply didn't follow football.... Most were loyal to an alarming degree... Fanatical fans.

That just doesn't exist here... Too many sway with the slightest breeze.

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greengold's picture

May 06, 2020 at 10:26 am

This really could not have been said better, Coldworld. Right on, man!

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Packerpasty's picture

May 05, 2020 at 07:21 pm

you mean to say these two guys ( who most scouts said were taken a couple of rounds too high) may not be starters and contribute heavily in their first year??? Shame on you...actually I would rather wait and see if they even make it off the practice squad...

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Samson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 07:41 pm

Trolls have so little to add.

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GLM's picture

May 05, 2020 at 08:21 pm

I like your post, but I disagree with your assessment of Dillon. He is absolutely a blue chip running back...he's every bit as valuable as any of the backs in this class. The pre-draft rankings discounted his ability to catch out of the backfield, but when you look at his tape, you can see his effectiveness in the flat and on screen passes. This guy is a stud running back who makes the defense account for him. He's a great addition to the offense.

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greengold's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:10 am

That was really great stuff, Aaron, as always. One of these day's I'm going to have to dial in live to participate. Really appreciate you doing this and sharing your insights along the way. Cheers! - Timo

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TheVOR's picture

May 05, 2020 at 10:48 am

I find some Packers fans lack of faith disturbing - Don't be to hard on us, some of us lived thru the 70's and 80's as ole Packer faithfuls. Some of us have seen it all from the Lombardi era onward, and when you have, you know what greatness looks like and what it doesn't.

Sometimes life is about understanding "The Moment". This draft was "The Moment" you took the next step in moving on from this years NFC Championship game, and winning a Super Bowl. To do that, you needed DL to improve from the 31st ranking in the NFL, and we've needed serious ILB help for 2 years running. Also some WR help would have been excellent in helping us make that step. It wasn't overwhelming!

Instead they did what they. From a fan who's been watching professional football for 57 years (1963), I've seen enough to know I didn't like this draft, not because of the actual selections themselves, but rather it didn't help us win a Super Bowl this season. That much I'm certain of..

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Tarynfor12's picture

May 05, 2020 at 11:31 am

" but rather it didn't help us win a Super Bowl this season. That much I'm certain of.."

or

As Capt Kirk would say to the FO, "You keep missing the target"

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Jonathan Spader's picture

May 05, 2020 at 11:34 am

Being old doesn't make you psychic or an expert. It just makes you old and in your case bitter. Usually life is about disappointment while still hoping for the best. Packers have one of the youngest rosters in the league we'll see how some of the youngsters develop. If they step up we'll be golden of they don't we fail.

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Tabin's picture

May 05, 2020 at 12:21 pm

Old makes your more experience and usually more respectful with different opinions. We don´t need to be football experts to know that Love is not going to help the team to be better this year. They went all in on defense last year with the win now mentality and now we draft a guy that best case will be playing in 2022. That is an inconsistent strategy.
Anybody doubts this team has less chances to win the SB with the draft they did than drafting Quinn in the 1st round instead of Love at 26th? Love was a terrible pick for winning the SB with Rogers as QB and from a financial point of view. The team will have only 2 season with a cheap QB contract. I am not saying he is a bad football player at all but bad timing for the Packers to make the pick. They should have wait until 2022 to pick a QB that could have been learning behind Rogers for a year and then be a starter with 3 years under a cheap contract
I agree with TheVOR 100%

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Coldworld's picture

May 05, 2020 at 01:01 pm

Old does not make one wise per se. if it did, the world would be a lot better place. In some cases it does make change harder to accept and new concepts hard to grasp.

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murf7777's picture

May 05, 2020 at 04:10 pm

Regarding your statement about Love pick being too early. When is the time right? My feeling is when you have the opportunity you strike because that opportunity might not come along when you need it. Unfortunately, have other needs right now, but guess what we will always have needs and we will always want to win. Lastly, just because you draft a WR in the first round doesn’t mean they will be successful or provide much help In the win column this year.

I have no idea whether Love will achieve greatness or even be a good starter someday as he is a classic boom or bust prospect. What I do know is he has to learn before being thrown into the fire. Who better to learn from then Rodgers, who is a future HOF QB.

So, the Packers brass think he is special so they went out to get him. Can’t blame that strategy because if you want to consistently win you MUST have a top notch QB as that position is arguably THE most important in all of Sports.

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The_Justicar's picture

May 06, 2020 at 02:46 pm

I concur with your thoughts on the conflicting strategies....sign AR to a massive deal and go big in free agency spending looks like the organization is going all in for a super bowl. Then, draft a project with the 12th pick in Gary whose playing time will be limited due to those same big money free agent signings. Then, draft a qb that won’t play for probably 3 years, maybe 4, when at that time the big free agent signings from last year will have moved on/need new contracts and we only have the cheap qb for a year or two.

Did something happen last season that made the packers decide to switch strategies of all in to win now vs win down the road? They can’t claim to be all in winning now based on the draft strategy this year and heck, even back to last years first round. They picked for both now (savage) and the future (Gary). It is hard to go all in and yet plan to win big in the future too...most likely both strategies will suffer because of it.

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ImaPayne's picture

May 06, 2020 at 04:12 pm

Who could honestly have faith after this draft. What does it 5ake for air heads not to clearly see this draft was about money, people leaving who wont be re signed and being replaced early.
We needed receivers. Nada. We needed ilb, nada. Itscheap ball, max profit at all costs.

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bodei1newbie1's picture

May 05, 2020 at 12:18 pm

i will take the wait and see approach because we really don't know now do we

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Samson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 04:27 pm

It's really not a "lack of faith"... It's more a lack of true football knowledge.
Many who are cry'in the blues after the draft are only cry'in the blues because they were so totally uninformed & misinformed (too much media) & ultimately wrong about the draft... It's more about their personal miscalculations than anything having to do with Gute/MLF & the draft decisions. (Ya know.. they're all former GMs.. LOL)

Although I still would have loved to see C. Young and/or A. Gibson in G&G, I'm still excited about both the immediate future & beyond... I have no reason to believe that GB with AR can't compete for the SB in 2020 & 2021. --- After that... Love & AJ Dillon will be the headliners.... It's called moving in time.

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Packerpasty's picture

May 05, 2020 at 07:24 pm

glad to see you can read the future...so Love and Dillon will be headliners hey...can we maybe wait and see about that??? Good to know anyone who doesn't agree with this draft is stupid and has no football knowledge...what exactly makes you so smart?? You must read the Packers website a lot..

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Samson's picture

May 05, 2020 at 07:41 pm

Trolls have so little to add.

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canadapacker's picture

May 05, 2020 at 06:40 pm

I will admit that our record was definitely better than our play. But I also believe that our play was much poorer than our stats. If one considers how many times that we had AR miss or not throw to open guys that killed drives and time of possession. That was quite a bit and that was AR getting away from the bad habits that he had developed during the last few years of MM's tenure. We did have some dropped passes but not as much as other teams - just seemed to be at the wrong time. Also Too often we took stupid penalties on the early drives and then put the D onto the field. When the D was rested we mostly were effective. Once tired that was game over although we gave up only field goals after long drives - but we were still on the field too much. I think that if AR and Lafleur are on the same page and if AR takes what is there with the Sternberger progressing and maybe Degura showing up, we will have a much better performance earlier in the season. I think that all of the returning receivers will make an impact. I said last year that the receiving corp was not that bad. I like whomever is on with Adams such as Shepard Lazard MVS St Brown - what could be happening with 2 tight ends - now that slowfooted Graham is gone . Could really be a nightmare - now all that needs to happen is for AR to return to form and play with what he has - and it isnt chopped liver - it is a good offense.

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marpag1's picture

May 06, 2020 at 07:07 am

I, on the other hand, do not find any of this disturbing even in the least. It's football, for shit's sake. Why would I give a damn if some faceless internet poster does, or does not, appreciate a draft pick?

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ImaPayne's picture

May 06, 2020 at 04:27 pm

And why would you give a shit if some fans actually look for team improvement and see only future what if players taken.

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