Draft Profile: Josh Allen- Why He's a Top 5 Talent Worth Trading First Round Draft Capital to Acquire
With the NFL Draft a little over a month away, I will begin a short series of articles highlighting some of the draft prospects that the Packers could draft with their premium selections in this year's draft.
With the NFL Draft just over a month away, I will be starting a short series profiling several prospects that the Packers could select with their first round picks. During this series, I will be examining players that Green Bay could select if they traded up, traded down, or stayed pat and didn't trade at all. For the first article in this series, I wanted to examine a prospect that I believe Brian Gutekunst should invest his first-round draft capital to acquire if an opportunity presents itself. The player I would most like to see Brian Gutekunst trade for is Josh Allen, Kentucky's multi-faceted pass rushing specialist.
The reality is, Green Bay trading up in the first round to make a big splash rarely happens, but I am here to make the case for why trading the 12th and 30th picks for Josh Allen under the right circumstances is the right move. Before you all tar and feather me for wanting to trade up into the top 5, please try and go into this scenario with an open mind.
I understand that Green Bay's mentality has always been to trade down and accumulate multiple draft picks so that they have more than one chance to draft a starting player with pro bowl caliber talent. The rationale for doing this is sound and has worked at times, but I believe that the franchise would benefit from occasionally altering this stance under special circumstances.
Although I understand the need to accumulate draft capital in a league dominated by the salary cap, because of the need to have controllable players on team-friendly contracts, there are always exceptions to the rule. Ladies, and Gentlemen, I am here to say, Kentucky edge rusher Josh Allen is the exception to the rule.
When I brought up the scenario of trading the 12th and the 30th pick to Oakland for the 4th overall pick in one of my previous articles, many of you thought I was crazy and instantly tried to diminish Allen's value as a top 5 prospect.
You said he wasn't worthy of trading first round capital because he was overrated and overhyped. You said he had a 50-50 chance of being "bust" potential like Vernon Gholston or AJ Hawk (Take it easy on AJ Hawk, but point taken). Finally, you told me trading two first rounders for yet another edge rusher is not the Packer thing to do because it is a foolish expenditure of draft capital when you have already signed Za'Darius and Preston Smith.
Trust me, I have heard all of the detractors loud and clear but let's set a couple of things straight; one, you are not trading away your entire draft for a single player, and two, when has having a dominant front seven ever been a bad thing?
Not to sound cliche, but defense still does win championships, and a nasty front seven improves the overall integrity of the defense and makes the secondary's job easier. Pairing Josh Allen with Za'Darius and Preston Smith would give the Packers three up and coming young edge rushers to compliment their already dominant defensive line trio of Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels, and Dean Lowry.
Don't just take my word for it, let's examine Josh Allen's entire body of work and see how his unique skill set could translate into the NFL. Allen has a multi-faceted skill set; he can rush the passer as well drop back into coverage and patrol the middle of the field. I believe that Allen's skill set could allow him to see some reps as a middle linebacker in Mike Pettine's exotic system, in addition to his traditional role as an outside linebacker.
Allen displays his well rounded and already polished game by his ability to be a reliable tackler in any situation. He had 88 total tackles, 56 of which were solo tackles to go along with 4 passes defensed. Allen's secondary stats show that he could translate into a dual-threat player similar to Khalil Mack.
Josh Allen 2018 stats: 17.0 sacks, 21.5 tackles for loss, 5 forced fumbles, 56 solo tackles, 88 total tackles, 4 Passes Defensed
2019 NFL Combine Measurables- 40-yard dash: 4.63, Broad Jump: 118, Vertical: DNP, 3 Cone: 7.15, 20-yard shuttle: 4.23, Bench Reps 28
I encourage you to take a look at Pro Football Focus's analysis of Josh Allen's 2018 season at Kentucky. His pro football focus grade and analysis of how his game translates into the NFL shows how he will impact the defensive unit in many different facets of the game and how his game will be fluid in many different packages and systems. His game film combined with his combine measurables certainly passes the eye test of what a top-five talent looks like. Through his film, we are able to see the many different ways that Allen impacts the game in pass rushing, coverage, tackling, reading plays, and football I.Q.
In my mind, Josh Allen is one of the select prospects in this draft that is worth using first round capital to acquire. He is the entire package of size, speed, intelligence, and athleticism who possesses all of the tools, measurables, and experience to be a perennial all-pro caliber NFL talent. If you cannot be sold on a prospect that possesses literally every quality of a defensive superstar who excelled in arguably the best conference in college football (17.0 sacks, 21.5 tackles for loss, 56 solo tackles, 5 forced fumbles, 4 passes defensed) then you will be skeptical of every prospect that the Packers bring in. You can rest easy by investing in Josh Allen.
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David Michalski is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @kilbas27dave
Comments (124)
EdsLaces
March 23, 2019 at 11:57 am
Sold.
DavidMichalski
March 23, 2019 at 12:01 pm
Thanks for the read, I definitely encourage you to take a look at the Pro Football Focus tape if you haven't already. It's a great supplemental piece that supports my argument. Go Pack Go
NitschkeFan
March 23, 2019 at 03:37 pm
Nice article David and in the film clip I particularly like the play where he diagnosed the screen pass and blows it up.
As for the trade, a bold move to be sure but after handing out huge cap dollars to the Smith's I would prefer to try and plug some of the other positional roster holes.
That kind of move might push our defensive front 7 into elite territory. I don't think I could get used to watching the Packers with a top 10 defense but a bottom 10 offense (just too familiar with the other way around).
Swisch
March 23, 2019 at 04:39 pm
Bold, perhaps Gutesy, move.
If Josh Allen has a strong potential to be a superstar, the next Khalil Mack, then trading, in effect, a #30 pick for him (the #12 pick is a wash) seems like a great move.
I like David, and any others, making a decisive choice and an enthusiastic case for a certain player.
We still have plenty of picks, including four more in the first four rounds, to add offensive line and tight end and safety.
At present, we do have a good opportunity to get a star at #12, and a near-star at #30, but I'm in favor of risking both picks on getting a superstar.
dblbogey
March 23, 2019 at 06:19 pm
Very good article. Thanks David.
dobber
March 23, 2019 at 12:02 pm
My favorite player in this year's class, bar none.
TKWorldWide
March 23, 2019 at 12:40 pm
I thought that was William Floyd.
Bearmeat
March 23, 2019 at 03:50 pm
Mine too, and pre-Smith-binge by Gute, I would absolutely have agreed on moving up into the top 5 to get Allen. Now though? I think I'd rather let the draft fall to us. There are a lot of front 7 talents which are going to be there at 12.
Cubbygold
March 23, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Good stuff. Thanks for putting this together
Dzehren
March 23, 2019 at 12:33 pm
Ross Uglem posted an article yesterday that has Burns higher on his Packers draft board.
DavidMichalski
March 23, 2019 at 12:41 pm
I definitely love Ross’s film work and always respect his opinions, however different points of view make covering the draft so much fun.
Dzehren
March 23, 2019 at 03:05 pm
David- I think most would agree that Allen is a better prospect then Burns. Both players would look great in green and gold.
TKWorldWide
March 23, 2019 at 03:17 pm
Oh man, both Smiths AND Allen and Burns! WooHoo!
NickPerry
March 23, 2019 at 12:44 pm
Nice job David... You make a good case and at least got me thinking about it but in the end I lean towards NO.
For some reason moving from 12th to 4th assuming he's still there feels like it would cost more than the 30th pick. But even if it doesn't I still feel because of the depth in this draft I feel the Packers could make themselves stronger as a team by staying put. As a matter of fact I'm beginning to hope the Redskins want to move up to 12 from 15 to get in front of the Dolphins. Hell the Dolphins might try to move up to 12 to make sure the Redskins don't. If that was to happen and the cost is getting the Fins or Skins 3rd round pick, that gives GB the 15th, 30th, 44th, 75th, plus the 76th or 78th depending on who they traded back with. 5 picks in the first 76 or 78 picks? YES PLEASE!
Maybe I'm putting way to much hope into this draft BUT I have a very strong feeling THIS will be the draft which sets up the Packers SB hopes for the remainder of Rodgers contract. I want as many swings as I can have in the first 75 picks.
DavidMichalski
March 23, 2019 at 12:59 pm
If Allen is off the board, I absolutely go from 12 to 15 and accumulate some picks like you suggest. At 15 I'd be all in on Hock, but I'll save my analysis on Hock for another time.
In terms of what it would cost to move up to 4, it would only cost the 12th and 30th picks. That's from the NFL Draft value chart (Draftek.com), each pick has a certain point value. That's why I make the argument to draft Allen at 4 if the Jets take Quinnen Williams at 3. It's a pretty simple swap of picks if you were to make a trade.
stockholder
March 23, 2019 at 01:07 pm
Allen would be perfect to move around like CM3. So I have a new trade @12 and next years #1. for #4.
NickPerry
March 23, 2019 at 03:21 pm
Hmmm … That's and interesting thought. We possibly give up a better first than 30th but who knows. The biggest downside to it is the amount of money we've just spent on the Edge just so we didn't have to do something like this though.
stockholder
March 23, 2019 at 04:01 pm
We did. CM3 played ILB. Allen can play all LB positions. Great player can do great things anywhere.
PatrickGB
March 23, 2019 at 04:11 pm
Stockholder, you read my mind. We might even be lower in next years draft order if we did that. Allen immediately improves and varies the rush from the middle as well as being an unexpected pass rusher from the A gap.
CoachJV
March 23, 2019 at 04:11 pm
It's cheaper to give up both of this years picks than to mortgage the future. If we don't reach a championship game next year, then we will have paid more than the #30...
I'm all for giving both of this year's picks to move up. This type of talent is rare.
stockholder
March 23, 2019 at 04:22 pm
Coach - The Packers traded #14 for #27 and a Fifth. And that #30 pick this year.(Gamble) For 13 slots. The Packers have #12. And No one knows next year. To go up 8? It's fair considering what NO gave us.
CoachJV
March 23, 2019 at 06:55 pm
Yeah... that's fair. either way is worth it for this kind of talent.
jannesbjornson
March 23, 2019 at 04:10 pm
The #12, 2020 #1 and 2020#3 would maybe entice the 49rs or Jets to dish their pick? Its kind of a Mack deal w/out a player's pro history to look at for comparison. It would be tempting.
stockholder
March 23, 2019 at 04:26 pm
I don't think they have to do a #3. Based on league strength. 8-8 gives you a #20 pick. I believe we can do 8-8 easy with the FAs signed.
Rossonero
March 24, 2019 at 07:22 pm
I personally think trading with the Giants down to 17 is a very real possibility -- assuming the Giants do not take a QB with their top 10 pick.
Why? If the Giants want a QB, there's a good chance Dwayne Haskins or Drew Lock is sitting there at #12, and they know the Dolphins (#13) and the Redskins (#15) are QB needy teams licking their chops.
In my mock, I have us doing just that -- trading down to 17 and trading away one of our 4th rounders for the Giants' 2nd rd pick (since it's a pretty high 2nd rd pick, the price is steeper).
Thoughts?
Swisch
March 23, 2019 at 04:52 pm
As time moves on, it seems more and more that by #15 a lot of the favorites of fans here at Cheesehead TV will be gone, such as Hock, Bush, White and Oliver.
It seems almost every time I read someone's favorite pick at #12, I see something that predicts that player will be gone by then.
As memory serves, Ross' recent listing of top draft talent backs this up. Then again, that didn't factor in any QBs or RBs being taken in the top eleven.
TKWorldWide
March 24, 2019 at 08:44 am
I am either hoping for or expecting some QB’s as well as some other unexpected guys to go before pick #12, thus sweetening the pot for GB.
EJ Manuel, anyone?
Christian Ponder?
C’mon, desperate GM’s, roll up those sleeves and REACH!
GLM
March 23, 2019 at 01:25 pm
Although I like Josh Allen a lot as a player and a prospect, I don't agree with moving up with both 1st-round picks. There's some glaring needs that need to be filled, and quite frankly, edge is no longer one of them.
The whole purpose of signing the Smiths was to take the pressure off of the draft board, and force a pick at edge rusher. I would be really surprised if that happens. If it does, I'm ok with it, because we'll know it was our gm, and not a draft pundit (no offense intended) who made the pick. I just don't see that happening.
jeremyjjbrown
March 23, 2019 at 01:47 pm
I tend to think they will not make a move up like this. I do not think Pettines defense is soley reliant on having a dominant edge rusher the way Capers was. I think Pettine is more interested in generating interior pressure and having edges who can contain both the run game and escaping QBs.
That a said I am a fan of Pettine's approach. How many times did we see guys like Wilson and Kaepernick feast on Capers by just running for a 1st down when the edge broke down?
The Smith boys are both dominant edge setters. I think Gutie will continue to add DL and Edge players who are strong at contian.
TKWorldWide
March 23, 2019 at 03:20 pm
Gutie Gutie gumdrops, says I!
NickPerry
March 23, 2019 at 03:27 pm
"I do not think Pettines defense is soley reliant on having a dominant edge rusher the way Capers was. "
Excellent point. The defense actually played pretty well earlier in the year before the usual number of injuries hit again. 40 sacks, plus they moved up in many of the rankings for the year in their first season.
Preston Smith is especially good on the edge in the run game and like I'm learning more and more Z Smith can be used all over the D-Line or edge. This defense is going to be a lot of fun to watch this year just as it is already.
jannesbjornson
March 23, 2019 at 04:04 pm
Interior rush push the pocket. If teams counter with big guards their perimeter running becomes slower as they go inside zone runs. Big ,fast ILB
wants to join this defense and another DT.
jeremyjjbrown
March 23, 2019 at 04:42 pm
I also think Pettine wants LB that are more of the swarmer type than the thumper type. He's basically said so, he likes slightly smaller faster Inside linebackers. The OL is never going to be able to catch all of them. I'm hoping Burkes makes a jump this off-season.
NickPerry
March 24, 2019 at 02:53 am
You read my mind Jeremy... Having Burks make that jump would be huge for the defense. I think a jump happens and Gutekunst has the ILB he traded up for.
sherrmann1806
March 24, 2019 at 10:37 pm
If Pettines is truly interested in generating interior pass rush then you couldn't do better then an interior pass rusher such as Christian wilkins!! Please Pettines....find a way to draft this guy at all costs as part of your draft class!!
If i were the packers........i would use the first 4 picks including trading up or down...to address the defense!! I firmly believe that is they draft right, using the fabulous high impact talent in the draft class...that they can transform their Defense into a top ten or top 5 defense for years to come!!
4thand1
March 23, 2019 at 02:14 pm
It makes sense David. Giving up 12 & 30 to get a pure difference maker works for me. Plus, they were all in for Mack giving up picks along with a huge price tag. Allen wouldn't break the bank and all we lose is the 30th pick? This is where the NO trade last year works in every way. Gute has put this team in really good position to make deals that benefit the Packers.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 23, 2019 at 02:15 pm
Good player but IMO not worthy of #12 and #30 with all the player needs the Pack have. If the Pack needed just that one super splash player...for sure!
The Pack could select a top notch QB, an edge rusher, DL, ILB, TE, WR, or OT with those two selections where either or both could be quality starters. Additionally one of those selections could allow team to move back a few positions to pick up a 3rd player.
Nope if it was up to me I would likely stay put and draft BPA.
Leatherhead
March 23, 2019 at 05:29 pm
The Saints thought Marcus Davenport was worth two #1 picks last year. Four and a half sacks.
Minniman
March 23, 2019 at 10:57 pm
In fairness I don't think that Marcus Davenport's NFL story has been written yet, but yes he came at a steep price.
Re Josh Allen, I'm not convinced he's the second coming of Lawrence Taylor (yet) and unfortunately the Packers don't have the positional depth capital to absorb a whiff here.
For me it's "all the way with BPA..." this year.
DavidMichalski
March 24, 2019 at 03:18 am
Josh Allen is clearly a better prospect than Davenport was. Davenport was more raw, Allen is more polished coming out. I understand your point but don’t really think it’s a fair comparison.
jannesbjornson
March 24, 2019 at 07:45 am
Allen is stronger and faster.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 24, 2019 at 07:08 pm
RAS has Allen and Burns rated same score. Why wouldn't you just stay put and take Burns, Oliver or possibly Gary, or OT? Then at 30 take Fant, Simmons, Bush, or OT?
Pack has too many needs and there are going to be very good players available at 12 and 30.
Qoojo
March 23, 2019 at 02:32 pm
Every pick in the draft is a dice roll. In theory, the higher the pick, the better your odds. So you want as many rolls as high as possible. It would be foolish to trade #12 and #30 for #5, because there's no such thing as "can't miss" prospects in the draft.
lowcsp
March 23, 2019 at 02:46 pm
Oh yes there is, tony mandarich was a cant miss that went well and we didnt even have to trade up for him
Skip greenBayless
March 23, 2019 at 03:27 pm
I think he was going where you were going but just didn't say it. I also had the same thought as you both when I first read the article. I think many now older folks do. That is the one draft that will burn in the Packers hell of a fame forever. 4 out of 5 of those first picks were hall of famers and the Packers were the one team that got the lemon.
Dash
Qoojo
March 23, 2019 at 04:30 pm
Tony "The Turnstile" Mandrich. Yea, that draft still burns lol
Ferrari Driver
March 23, 2019 at 05:49 pm
Dash, Had we not beaten the Cardinals that last game we would have had Aikman and the Cowboys would likely have been stuck with Tony the Tiger. I went to the Packers camp to watch a few of the practice sessions and on my first visit, I saw Mandarich and he looked slow and clumsy and thought it was a camp body. Sorry to say, he played the way he looked.
mrtundra
March 24, 2019 at 08:21 am
...and we picked Mandarich over Barry Sanders.
TKWorldWide
March 24, 2019 at 11:21 am
And Deion Sanders.
sonomaca
March 23, 2019 at 02:48 pm
You’d do it for Allen but not Bosa?
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 03:29 pm
I believe Bosa is overrated and if not there’s probably no way to get to #2 where he looks like he’s going to be picked?
jannesbjornson
March 23, 2019 at 04:14 pm
The mock-heads believe Bosa to San Fran is set in stone. Why? ALLen may be their guy. Bosa still has the core injury history. Gruden could make a move on the #two if he felt Allen replaces Mack.
DavidMichalski
March 23, 2019 at 04:23 pm
The cost for Bosa at 2 would cost the Packers a draft value of 2600 (Draftek.com). So that would cost either 12, 30, 44, 75, 114, and 118 or 12, 30, and next year's first rounder. Drafting Allen at 4 would only carry a draft value of 1800 which costs 12 (1,200 pts.) and 30 (620 pts.). So trading for Allen would be more realistic and provide more value given the fact that Gutekunst traded down last year to accumulate the extra 1. With this in mind you could still stand pat with the rest of the draft, or trade up using some of the extra draft picks in the fourth and sixth rounds should more value present itself in rounds 2,3, and 4.
sonomaca
March 23, 2019 at 07:43 pm
You’d only consider it if he fell to #5. You’d have to have 2 QB’s, Jawan Taylor, and Allen go in top 4.
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 09:20 pm
TJ WATT would have been nice
mrtundra
March 24, 2019 at 08:24 am
What would it cost the Packers to draft Brian Burns or Clellin Ferrell? Nothing, because they will both be available at #12 and we'd still get to keep our #30 pick.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 24, 2019 at 07:09 pm
100% agree!
Skip greenBayless
March 23, 2019 at 03:16 pm
Very good persuasive case David. I'm still gun shy about it. I think it's PTSD carry over from 1989 yet. I'd hate to go that high again and not have it work out. I still have flashbacks. Very good work though. It does make you think the Packers could do it if they believe in him as you do.
Dash
jannesbjornson
March 23, 2019 at 04:16 pm
Don't they test for steroids now?
egbertsouse
March 23, 2019 at 05:40 pm
Even without a test one would think that the Packers would have had a clue when he went from 260 to 320 in one year and was bald by age 20.
Skip greenBayless
March 23, 2019 at 06:51 pm
I actually remember the last 1988 game cheering for the Cardinals at Phoenix. I think Ronny Pitts returns a punt or int back for a td and wins the damn game. Another case LIKE LAST SEASON where I was rooting for them to lose to move up to the top. I wanted Troy Aikman but because they won a meaningless game we were knocked out of the obvious choice in Aikman and had to go with a very angry running back who's Dad decided where he goes in Barry Sanders, another guy named Prime Time who you just knew would not fit in Green Bay at that time and a guy who said he would take up wrestling or boxing if the Packers drafted him. lol. Nobody after Aikman said they wanted to come here. They must have thought Tony would be the easiest to sign. 1988, man what a horrible time that was to be a Packer fan. Ironically 1989 turned out to be my all time favorite season. Even to this day it stands out more than any other.
Dash
Swisch
March 23, 2019 at 07:04 pm
1989 was a blast!
Along with the dramatic Majik to Sharpe game-winner against Ditka and the Bears, the Packers also beat the eventual Super Bowl champs in the 49ers.
Sad to say, a record of 10-6 wasn't good enough for the playoffs that season; but still, a fondly memorable season in the midst of many miserable ones.
Funny thing, Barry Sanders seems to have had lots of bad games as a visitor in Green Bay, including the playoffs. Maybe he was right.
BoCallahan
March 23, 2019 at 09:06 pm
Cardiac Kid or Don “Magic Man” Majkowski was fun to watch that year. What a game against the Bears! Mike Ditka, the Bears coach, had the game recorded in the Bears records with an asterisk. The asterisk indicated that a call was reversed by the booth on a TD pass and the win was awarded to the Packers, but later the NFL stated that it should never have been reversed. BUT, it was too late. The game was over and the Packers won!
The Lambeau crowd exploded with the touch down. Booed the flag. Went silent for 4 minutes as it was reviewed. And exploded again with the reversal. What an emotional roller coaster. It was great!
Majkowski led the league in passing and finished 2nd behind Montana for the league MVP.
Archie
March 24, 2019 at 07:30 am
And it was Tony Mandarich that allowed the penetration that resulted in Majik man's torn rotator cuff and the effective end of his career.
BoCallahan
March 23, 2019 at 09:20 pm
Swisch,
Do you remember the game in GB (play off) where the Pack held Sanders to -1 yard rushing? He had over 1800 yards that year, and he got steam rolled that day. I had the joy of being at that game. It was COLD but no one cared. We were all stoked by the defense. The crowd was nuts. Me and my buddy were bare chested and hoarse.
GLM
March 23, 2019 at 11:45 pm
That was the '95 playoff game...I was there!
Swisch
March 24, 2019 at 08:21 pm
Bo, I didn't remember that game specifically, but it seems that Sanders had two or three playoff games in Green Bay in which he was stuffed.
I'm glad you and GLM had the fun of being there for at least one of them.
The playoff game against Detroit that I really remember was maybe a year earlier in a dome -- when Teague made a key interception at the goal line; and later, in the waning moments, and the Pack about to lose, Favre rolled left and amazingly found Sharpe right for a long touchdown pass and a thrilling victory.
Skip greenBayless
March 23, 2019 at 11:41 pm
Yep Swish, to me it was my very first time from childhood all the way up to adulthood that I experienced what it was like to see double digit wins. We didn't even make the playoffs that season as you said. I think the kids that grew up in the 70's and 80's will one day be known as the greatest generation of fans in Packer history. The younger people of today will never understand the pain and mental suffering this generation of people went thru. To constantly hear about "The Glory Years" but never actually have a recollection of them. We wanted our own team to worship but it simply never happened until 1996. We hung in there and never quit the faith. Today in this fast pace win now era, it could never happen. It's why I like Cleveland fans. They deserve what we experienced in 1996. They suffered long enough.
Dash
Ferrari Driver
March 24, 2019 at 01:12 am
Dash, Do you mean like hoping for a miracle after the Packers drafted Barty Smith or Barry Smith?
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 24, 2019 at 07:13 pm
What about Lions fans the past what 20 years or close?
Swisch
March 24, 2019 at 08:11 pm
Dash, I did get to enjoy the 1972 team, at age 10, that won its division at 10-4. Dave Robinson and Ken Bowman were a couple of holdovers from the Lombardi Era.
After that it was indeed rough for the most part, especially after our family moved to the suburbs of Chicago in 1973.
In the mid-1980s, the Packers were not only losers, but not all that likable. It was a low point, a miserable malaise, with little reason for hope.
So, yes, the fans like us who missed the Lombardi years but stayed true did indeed earn some stripes for loyalty when the team suffered so many dismal defeats.
Also, we may agree that the McCarthy Era with four championship games; one Super Bowl triumph; and something like eight straight trips to the playoffs, deserves to be remembered for the most part fondly and appreciatively.
Other than the Patriots, the Packers were consistently the green-and-gold standard of the NFL for the bulk of McCarthy's tenure. Almost all good things come to an end.
In general, the last 25 seasons have been a great ride for us as Packers fans. We do well to be grateful for such a long stretch of success, even as we try to turn around a two-season slump.
I'm excited about the new regime, and hopeful for the playoffs next season, and a Super Bowl victory soon thereafter. After two steps back, it's time for several steps forward.
For those of us who suffered so much so long ago -- not for two seasons, but over some two decades -- the successes are all the sweeter.
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 10:40 pm
A lot of info
WOW
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 09:21 pm
TJ WATT Riproar?
Packer_Fan
March 23, 2019 at 03:19 pm
Don't do it. Drafting players is imprecise. I would rather get as many picks as possible and get 6 picks in the first three rounds rather than taking a risk and losing out. The Pack need more talent. Numbers help that more than just one player.
fthisJack
March 24, 2019 at 08:46 am
yup....trade down, get your guy and get another 3rd round pick or better. then you have more ammo to make a trade up into the second if there is a guy you love. Unless Oliver or White are there at 12....trade back. i would take a TE with the trade back and then OL at 30....Risner or Lindstrom.
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 03:31 pm
i’d rather trade down and get meat and potatoes players than a overrated could be injured gamble trading up
BUT then again ya just might find a pro bowler?
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 10:41 pm
u got nothing Rip?
LambeauPlain
March 23, 2019 at 04:10 pm
If, and a big if, trading both ones to the Raiders would net Allen...do it.
The new front 7 would have potential to be game changing and giving Aaron and the O more plays after 3 and outs.
I suspect the Raiders will take him though. They now need him more than the Pack does. Gutey’s board is now “Into the Big Wide Open”.
Another interesting strategy would be to trade the #12 with the Titans for their second rounder and get their #16. Then immediately trade both 2nd rounders to the Steelers for their #17.
Steelers might be willing needing reloads at RB and WR.
The Pack having 3 first rounders with potential starting potential on 5 year contracts could reset the team for the duration of Aarons tenure.
First round #’s 16, 17, 30....pinch me!!
ShooterMcGee
March 23, 2019 at 05:08 pm
Titans are at #19 and Steelers have the 20th pick in the 1st round.
LambeauPlain
March 23, 2019 at 05:51 pm
Yes, you are correct...19, 20, and 30 in the first with 5 year contracts.
I would still take that.
Would you?
SportsBot_5000
March 23, 2019 at 04:27 pm
Dude isn’t worth trading any picks for. He had one year of solid production at Kentucky. If we stay at 12 we could get Burns/Oliver/Trade Back and at 30 we could get a S/WR/OL. I rather have Burns and a staring safety than Josh Allen.
mrtundra
March 24, 2019 at 08:33 am
Burns will most likely fall to us at #12. Oliver may also fall to #12. I've seen mocks where Ferrell fell to #30. There should be solid Edge help available for Gute at either of our 1st Round picks. No need, IMO, to trade up for Allen.
BoCallahan
March 23, 2019 at 04:29 pm
What a spot to be in! We have the numbers to obtain a higher pick. We can slide down a couple spots and accumulate an additional pick. Or, we can stay right where we are at in the 1st round and come out in great shape. Those FA signings created a lot of freedom.
MikeS
March 23, 2019 at 04:49 pm
Like Dash, I too remember the Mandrich fiasco. I say stay put at 12 and 30.
JonathanSpader
March 23, 2019 at 05:19 pm
You also stay put at 1989 it's 2019.
4thand1
March 23, 2019 at 05:28 pm
Mandrich was 30 years ago. We could have had Barry Sanders, he won 1 playoff game with Detroit. The Pack were the winningest team of the 90's with 2 SB appearances winning it all. Taking Mandrich got Infante fired and brought in Wolfe and Holmgren, worked out pretty dam good.
Skip greenBayless
March 23, 2019 at 05:58 pm
4th and 1, this is one of those rare cases where you said something that can apply to both sides of the argument.
Are you saying we should take Allen, hope it fails, it gets Gutey, LaFleur, Murphy fired so we can win another super bowl down the road due to stupidity? Is this what you are saying? or something else?
Dash
BoCallahan
March 23, 2019 at 06:16 pm
From what I recall, Barry said he wouldn’t sign with a team in the north unless it had a dome. He threatened to sit out. Rather than go through the trouble, the Packers picked the “can’t miss” player - Ante Josip “Tony” Mandarich. TM was considered to be the greatest offensive line prospect ever.
gary g
March 23, 2019 at 06:44 pm
Excellent prospective.
egbertsouse
March 23, 2019 at 05:44 pm
If Allen is the next Lawrence Taylor they should trade up. If he is the next Vernon Gholston, don’t. See, easy-peasey. This GM business is a breeze!
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 09:23 pm
y’all got nothing on this ?
stockholder
March 23, 2019 at 10:34 pm
Reggie Bush?, Or how about all the picks for Ricky Williams. It just doesn't work most of the time. Allen maybe a great player. But he's not a franchise QB. And really shouldn't TT have traded the 2006 pick? Looking Back is easy. So As much as Gute could trade for Allen. I doubt it happens.
albert999
March 23, 2019 at 10:43 pm
Never gonna happen
crayzpackfan
March 23, 2019 at 11:17 pm
This offseason is unprecedented in recent GB history. It renders this years draft as an open crapshoot. There are many scenarios that would make sense and many of them show to be quite exciting. Do we continue to build an amazing defense for 2019 and on? Do we rest on the FA signings and load Rodgers up for his last stand? Do we trade for or draft Rodgers successor? There are so many possibilities. Do we trade up and put all our eggs in one basket for a chance to hit it big on a “chance” at a once in a lifetime player? Do we trade down in hopes of building depth and maybe finding gold later in the draft? Perhaps we stand pat, keep our current picks and simply take BPA’s? Being a Packer fan has never been so much fun in recent years. Reading everyone’s ideas and philosophies here have been so much fun. Some of us will be right, and some of us will be wrong. But one thing is for sure, us wonderful Packer fans have been waiting for many years for excitement, change, opinions, discussion, and a meaningful offseason where everyone’s speculation and dreams are f’n fun to read.
Jaylee
March 24, 2019 at 12:35 am
Yeah no. I'd take 2 early career Clay Matthews over 1 Jadeveon Clowney.
The chance that Allen is a blue chip player is vanishingly small, not supported by tape or by his stats. If he was a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt, I would agree with you, but the chances of that are infinitesimal.
Keep the picks. Get a BJ Raji and a Clay Matthews.
bigspiker
March 24, 2019 at 01:41 am
I watched 2 games Kentucky played this year. This kid DOMINATED. I turned to my niece and told her I wanted this kid in a Packer uniform next year. If we want to beat Chicago, we need to match them in personnel
Allen has Mack like potential we can afford for at least 5 years
Pull the trigger!!!
porupack
March 24, 2019 at 02:15 am
What did your niece advise?
TKWorldWide
March 24, 2019 at 09:33 am
And is your niece named Brian Gutekunst?
tm_inter
March 24, 2019 at 01:51 am
Just want to be on record that I'm against trading the 12th and 30th picks for Josh Allen. We can get two good starters with the 12th and 30th picks. Draft picks are never sure things - a lot of high draft picks turned out busts.
stockholder
March 24, 2019 at 08:38 am
Two good starters with the 12th and 30th picks? That's really the debate. Most are stuck on #30. Some say TE @12. then #30. But they won't start! Graham starts. Wrs.? Again they won't start. If the packers don't get 2 starters. They won't make .500. They then will have holes again on the DL next year too. Wilkerson must be replaced this year. The two players that can replace Wilkerson are Oliver and Wilkens. Next Ryan must be replaced. Why is Burks the answer? He's small. If he bulked up to 240 how slow would he get? If we draft for depth, it's a waste of draft picks. I believe you take the best DL available to start. You just kill two birds with one stone. The ILB is going to be rotation, if they don't get White or Bush. Some want Jones, and others say Burks. The draft has many players who can play ILB.
TKWorldWide
March 24, 2019 at 09:31 am
I hope you know that this will go down on your permanent record.
But don’t be so distressed.
Did I happen to mention that...
TKWorldWide
March 24, 2019 at 04:56 pm
Crickets?
Anybody?
Anybody?
Bueller??
porupack
March 24, 2019 at 02:27 am
You make a great case David, and you almost won me over. But, I'm staying with the crowd that; 2 high prospects is better than 1 very high prospect, since it still comes down to probabilities.
If there were fewer weak areas on the roster, and the staff believed they were truely one difference maker away from the elite 4, then....maaaaaaybe.
Otherwise, I would believe GB is better with BBurns and any DL, than with one JAllen.
How about trade 2020 #1 plus 2019 4th rounder if Simmons is there in 2nd round? Now you have your top 5 difference maker, available for next year costing only this year's 4th rounder. We pay forward next year's first rounder (at bottom of the round) for a top 5 prospect at a discount. Seems better deal than what you proposed.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 24, 2019 at 07:19 pm
Very good!
Spock
March 24, 2019 at 06:18 am
NEVER fall in love with a player. Whether that's this guy or the TE's or whatever. Even the HOF Ron Wolf admitted he messed up one draft by doing that. There is no "Can't Miss" EVER in a draft. I like that Gute has set the Packers up with his FA additions to take BPA. I expect that to happen. I'm excited about the draft. This trade speculation is interesting, but my expectation is that if we do any trading it will likely be trade down first and possibly trade back up later, but more likely just stand pat. This year we have the chance to get difference makers by (gasp) just staying put! Go, Pack, Go!!!!
lowcsp
March 24, 2019 at 09:39 am
Thats good logic every year you all have favorite players you want to draft last year for me it was Leighton Vander Esch this year its Chase Winovich an after reading the article about him buy Austin Gayle on the Pro Football Focus web site I think he would be a real asset but I doubt we get him unless we take him at 30
Archie
March 24, 2019 at 06:34 am
The 30th pick is a bonus pick, earned last year in a trade down. It should be used any way that Gutey sees fit to maximize its juice. If Gutey really thinks Josh Allen is the 2nd coming in terms of OLB, as many do, myself included, then why not? Pettine will fine a way in his scheme to fully utilize 2 stud OLB and one super-stud all purpose OLB. By the time JA comes up for a new contract we should have a SB champ and the 4 year contracts on the two Smiths will have run their course.
Bottom-line, there are many great ways Gutey could go in this draft and this is one. Staying pat and selecting either 3 defensive players in the first 44 picks or 3 offensive players or some combination of the two are other ways. I can't argue against any one strategy given the current position of the team. All that is important is that we get great value with the draft capital that we have. It could happen in many ways.
Renllaw
March 24, 2019 at 07:52 am
If we trade up, I would rather do it for Ed Oliver. Elite pass rush up the middle and a ready replacement for Daniels when we let him walk next year.
GLM
March 24, 2019 at 08:36 pm
That's a very real possibilty. I think we all hope Daniels has a career year, and cashes in. In that case, he will probably move on. The team should be looking at that, which makes Oliver a likely candidate, if he's there at #12. Maybe the team moves up a spot, or two to take him. I could see that happening. I don't see them moving up into the top 5, though, for Allen, or anyone else, really.
lowcsp
March 24, 2019 at 09:23 am
The trouble in trading up would be the final price, the 1800 points on the trade chart is just a starting point. I know if I am Mayock an gruden and were on the clock an theirs 3 blue chip players there especially with all the picks we have, the price to move off of 4 is a lot higher than the 1800 points then the question is is one player in this draft worth that gamble
Strikenine
March 24, 2019 at 09:59 am
If we had say the 16th and the 30th and could trade the 16th and a 2nd round pick for the 12th. We'd be happy as a lark!
GURSS WHAT we have the 12th and still have our 2nd round pick! STAY I think you will be surprised who falls to 12.
AgrippaLII
March 24, 2019 at 04:52 pm
I would sit pat with my draft picks and let my board dictate who I select...but I'm not Gutekunst. I think he may have the soul of a Riverboat Gambler in him and he's got lot's of chips in this draft. The only thing I'm sure of is this year's draft will be entertaining!
Lphill
March 24, 2019 at 06:39 pm
Yes stay with 12 and 30 , good players will fall to us , I rather get Bush or White for the middle that will complete the defense , can still get a decent edge at 30 or 44 .
PoizNgun
March 24, 2019 at 07:02 pm
I like it. I feel like it's finally time Green Bay matches some of the true power moves made around the NFL. The Smiths were definitely a change to what we're use too, but still not a Khalil Mack, AB type move. This scenario would be just that IMO. My only argument back is the rare opportunity of picking 2x in the first round and the talent at the top of the draft is worth 2 shots in the first, especially with a pick just outside the top 10. A pick in the top 5 though is just mightily enticing. I just want to see what Gute does already lol.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 24, 2019 at 08:03 pm
Without researching the Packs top 5 selections two readily come to mind for me. One has already been mentioned with Mandarich. The other was AJ Hawk. In hindsight AJ was a decent player but more of a low first round or 2nd round value player. Certainly nothing near the value of a 5th selection. Both Mandarich and Hawk were not anywhere the quality players you want when drafting that high in round 1. The point being having two selections in round 1 is golden and you stay put or move back a few selections to pick up another draft choice and hopefully the player you wanted all along. Moving up and all the draft capital to get there and the possibility the cant miss player ends up being a Mandarich or a Hawk.
With NE Gronk announcing his retirement today the Fant and Hoek fans should worry a little particularly if Pack takes someone else with their first selection. Of course NE might become trading partners with the Pack offering value.
Lphill
March 25, 2019 at 05:43 am
It’s not fair putting Hawk and Manderich in comparison, Hawk played in a different scheme at Ohio state and was a reliable player while with the Pack , I believe he may be the all time leader in tackles but I could be wrong .
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 25, 2019 at 08:02 am
LpHill,
He is the all time tackle leader! He was a good guy and decent player. Hawk wasnt a bust like Mandarich however was disappointing for a #5
selection in round 1. Most tackles down field with minimal turn over plays, or behind line of scrimmage. My point was he definitely did not end up being what one hoped for in a top 5 pick and why the Pack should not use up so much draft capital to try moving up and picking in top 5.
Leatherhead
March 25, 2019 at 11:00 am
Hawk is going to be in the Packer HOF.
lowcsp
March 25, 2019 at 07:44 pm
wrong place
lowcsp
March 25, 2019 at 08:52 am
delete
Leatherhead
March 25, 2019 at 10:59 am
I was intrigued enough that I did some of my own research on Josh Allen.
14 sacks this last season.....that's pretty good.
But in two games he had zero sacks...Texas A&M and Georgia. So, to confirm my suspicions, I looked up who the offensive tackle was in those games.
As I suspected, Georgia has an All-American at tackle, and A&M has a guy predicted to go in the 2nd round.
Getting sacks against some 20 year old redshirt freshman, or a guy who's going to be teaching PE in a while.....that's one thing. Beating NFL quality offensive linemen is another. And the two best offensive linemen that Allen went up against shut him out.
Draw your own conclusions.
DavidMichalski
March 25, 2019 at 01:26 pm
So Allen had 17 sacks, not 14. Yes, he had two bad games against A&M and Georgia in those losses but destroyed Penn St, and South Carolina, while having 1.5 TFL and 1 sack in the Florida game going up against Martez Ivey who some have as a top ten pick this year. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on Allen, I think his body of work coupled with how impressive his film is and how versatile of a player he is, is enough evidence to warrant him being a top 4 pick.
DavidMichalski
March 25, 2019 at 01:39 pm
Thank you all for contributing to the discussion, I enjoyed hearing all of your opinions (yes, even those of you that I disagree with). I think that Packer culture has scared off a lot of people from opening their minds to making a bold move because of players who were busts in the past. I encourage you not to forget the players who actually lived up to their top 5 Billings, there's a lot of them as well.
I think Allen definitely has a very good chance to live up to the hype and is definitely attainable via trade (under the right circumstances). He and the Smith's would give the Packers one of the nastiest young pass rushing trios in all of football. Furthermore, Allen is more than just an edge rusher and could see reps inside and patrol the middle of the field or get to the passer following Kenny Clark and Mike Daniels's penetration and rushing lanes.
The Packers could ultimately trade for Allen and still address the tight end position (Jace Sternberger) and draft a right tackle or guard in the third round.
Stay tuned Wednesday for the next player(s) that I will highlight as part of this series. Go Pack Go!
Montana
March 25, 2019 at 04:18 pm
I'm not much for cliches either and "defenses win championships" is one that's certainly overused. Still I wondered what the statistics were so I did some digging.
The average defensive rank for Superbowl winners is 5.63 while the average offensive rank is 6.10 from 1966 to 2014 according to NFL stats. Also of note only seven teams won the SB during these years with defenses ranked worse than 10 while nine offenses ranked worse than 10 were winners. Baltimore had the best overall defense in 2018 followed by: New England, Chicago, New Orleans, and Los Angeles.
So draw your in conclusions from these stats.....but they do show a pattern. Give up two first round draft choices and grab a potential pro bowl defensive player in Allen? It's tough to make that leap given we have other needs; TE, DB, OL, RB but I can appreciate the case in wanting to have an elite defense. I have been advocating defense since we won the SB in 2010 and we're ranked #2. It would still be hard to justify two first round picks for Allen given our other needs.....