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Cory's Corner: Your move Ted Thompson

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Cory's Corner: Your move Ted Thompson

The best time to look yourself in the mirror is when things are going bad. You have to figure out what changes need to be made in order to turn things around.

The Packers haven’t had a lot of good this season. The passing defense is ranked 26th by giving up over 242 yards a game and the rushing defense is ranked 15th by giving up 112 yards a game. The Packers have been sacked 42 times, which is No. 2 in the league, and are 27th in passing yards with 197 a game.

Before deciding what players to keep or get for 2018, the Packers have to decide what to do with general manager Ted Thompson. He is the Packers’ gatekeeper and has mainly used the draft as his talent stream.

However, there are a few holes on this team and as the season has gone on, questions continue to mount. Why did the Packers allow Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde and T.J. Lang to walk? The Jaguars added defensive end Calais Campbell and cornerback A.J. Bouye in the offseason and the Jacksonville defense is the main reason that team is closing in on a playoff spot. Why didn’t the Packers try to bring in just one of them?

The Browns have already looked in the mirror and they dropped executive vice president Sashi Brown. Cleveland knew what it wanted and the same day added John Dorsey, who spent 21 years in the Packers’ scouting department.

Thompson’s contract is over the day after the 2018 NFL Draft. Packers president Mark Murphy needs to sit down with him now and find out where his heart is. Does he still want to be the lead man for the Packers? Thompson turns 65 in January and does he still have the energy to do everything an organization needs and deserves?

Not to mention that Eliot Wolf has been mentioned as the next up-and-coming general manager in the NFL. If he is in fact the next general manager in waiting, the Packers cannot let him get away. The same could also be said for Brian Gutekunst.

It’s pretty apparent that Murphy isn’t going to fire Thompson. But if he knows that Wolf and/or Gutekunst is close to leaving, he may lean on Thompson to take a lesser role as a scout.

These are very tenuous times for the Packers. Aaron Rodgers is 34 now and needs even more help on the other side of the ball. That means the guy that’s buying the groceries cannot limit himself to just one talent stream. Is free agency a gamble? Sure is, but so are rookies and at least free agents will at least give you more short term gains than an unproven rookie that still needs to figure it out.

So in order for the Packers to know where they’re going, they have to know where Thompson is going.

Thompson, what say you?

 

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (106) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

UmpireMark's picture

Explain to me why, as we're already short at the DB position, one would place Kevin King on IR and activate a back that's hurt and cannot play? Goodson.

It's moves like these, mostly unreported, that shows me Ted has lost his "game."

stockholder's picture

Smoke and mirrors? Goodson said he is ready. Where ever the packers need him. It's been a long way back from Rehab. I look for him at gunner, more than CB. If the packers go to Goodson; you know the score will more than likely be in the Browns favor. Goodson was practicing and next man up. More than likely just pushing himself to much. Look how they played King with his shoulder. Guys must play hurt now, until they can't go it.

UmpireMark's picture

You do know Goodson has been ruled out for tomorrow, right? That's zero snaps from him and King this weekend.

stockholder's picture

Heard House not Goodson yet. But let's just wait until game time. I don't think their going to be able to keep them out.

UmpireMark's picture

Goodson was DNP for both Wed and Thur practices. I thought that I had read that he was already a scratch for Sunday (with Hawkins starting) but in checking again, I cannot find that Goodson was out, exclusively. My bad.

Since '61's picture

Stockholder - earlier this week you posted that I was dead wrong about Goodson and House. Well as of today Goodson is out for Sunday's game and House is doubtful. Looks like we will be going with Hawkins and Randall on the boundary as I originally posted. Thanks, Since '61

stockholder's picture

Yes , You were correct and I enjoy your comments. I read an article on Goodson saying he was ready. Guess I jumped it a bit. I'll let you know if I see them play sunday.

Since '61's picture

Fair enough Stockholder. It doesn't matter who plays at this point as long as they get the job done. Thanks, Since '61

TheVOR's picture

I'm certain of EXACTLY 1 THING - This man needs to step down and allow our organization to move forward with Eliot Wolf. PERIOD!

DD's picture

You're exactly right. TT must go after this season and Wolf in. He's had long enough and has failed the defensive side for years. Wake up fans, defense ranks low in rush yards allowed, and terrible in pass defense!. TT main concern is draft and develop and save cap money. Why? Build a defense and Rodgers and the team will have more rings. Other teams have built defenses in less years than TT; time to say bye, along with no scheme Capers!!

dobber's picture

Because Kevin King has been playing with one arm for several weeks, now? At some point, you have to sit and heal: surgery, in this case. He'll be ready for TC.

marpag1's picture

Hmm. I'll go out on a limb and say that TT sent King to IR because King is injured and needs season-ending shoulder surgery.

As for activating Goodson, you might have a point. But which player did you prefer for that roster spot?

And as for those damning, "unreported moves" ... how did you find out about them if they were unreported?

UmpireMark's picture

I get that King should have been placed on IR possibky 3 weeks ago. Then pick up another CB. Activating Goodson to the 53 man roster was a formality reported through the NFL offices on the same transaction as placing King on IR. Immediatly, the Packers placed Goodson on the injury report with a strained hammy.

As far as who, if not Goodson ... any able body with two good legs is a start. Some snaps by a horrible CB is better than zero snaps!

Tarynfor12's picture

" The best time to look yourself in the mirror is when things are going bad. You have to figure out what changes need to be made in order to turn things around."

The best time to look in the mirror is when things are going right and you need to figure out how to keep it that way and not kick back and think all will remain well.

The Packers are to the Titanic with radar and refused to look at it so not to be compelled to heed it's warning.
.

Nick Perry's picture

IMO the Packers shouldn't wait even a day past January 2nd 2018 to promote a new GM. IMO Elliott Wolf is the best choice since Dorsey has signed with the Browns. I'm not so sure Wolf wasn't even a better choice than Dorsey anyways, his age and lack of experience is the only concern. But they can't let him interview for even a single job if he's the one Murphy has settled on.

I've said for a long time the best way for the Packers to handle Ted Thompson is to make him a consultant for the 2018 draft and longer if he still wants to stay on in that capacity. But the Packers NEED a new direction, they need MORE than the 7 to 11 draft picks every year and an occasional FA signing. This year I thought Thompson made some pretty damn good additions in FA, but he didn't add in a Charles Woodson type player, one who can upgrade the defense 10 spots in rankings just by stepping on the field. That's what this team has been lacking since Woodson left. That's what needs to be done for 2018 and I don't believe Ted will/can do it.

The Packers CAN'T afford to just address the MANY needs on this team with just the draft. They've done it Thompson's way for the last 7 years and he hasn't been able to get them over the top. If you look at this team honestly, it's considerably worse than it was in 2014 and THAT'S on Thompson. The secondary, is much worse that 2014 and they STILL don't have a TE. They HAD one last season and Thompson let him walk despite what he and Rodgers did at the end of the year. They have the same receiver group they did in 2014, just older and haven't prepared for life after Nelson worth a damn. The Packers won SB45 because they were able to attack defenses with more quality receivers than they could possibly cover. Now they have Adams and he might not even be here in 2018 UGH!!!!

When I look at this team now, the way it's built and where the money is the Packers have some SERIOUS issues. The Packers have some serious needs heading into FA for 2018. They NEED a WR, OLB, TE, OL, CB in no particular order since all are pretty high on the list IMO. They need to make some tough decisions on players like Nelson, Cobb, and Matthews. IMO the Packers should try and renegotiate Nelson for sure and maybe Matthews to lower their 2018 cap hits. I think Nelson would probably go along but I'm not so sure about Matthews. Clearly Nelson has lost another step in 2017 but the chemistry Jordy has with AR will still be there next year IMO. Nelson can still be the ultimate possession receiver in 2018.

IMO Ted has failed the Packers. He's failed to replace the players he's let go because they turned 30, even though they continue to play well for other teams now. He's failed to keep the Packers STOCKED at the WR position while having the best QB on the planet and an O-Line who can protect him. But mostly he's failed to put a defense on the field. He's failed to pressure McCarthy to get rid of Capers, allowing him to stay. Capers should have been gone after 2012 and since he was allowed to stay he's cost the Packers AT LEAST one maybe two more SB appearances.

UmpireMark's picture

I believe that those out there that still defend Ted and Dom, now have a full body of work to analyze. Four, five, six and seven years of the same sameness. Defense is routinely middle to lower end of the scale. Names on the back of the uniform change, but results do not.

Draft and develop has not made marketable impacts. Undrafted free agents usually are undrafted for a reason.

Defensive schemes, nitro, ninja ... players are out of position. Since winning it all in 2010, we end the last 6 seasons the same way: some remarkable colossal collapse.

Instead of knee jerk reactions to losing a playoff game, look at the full body of work over time and realize the status quo isn't working. Has it, ever?

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Nope

DD's picture

Exactly correct. Why do us fans see it and management doesnt? Because they're so smart, ego driven, and stay stagnant. Stay the course, suffer team and fans. We read this and truly care, but they don't read this and don't give a rats ass about our opinions. If we're publicly owned, we should be at least be listened to and have a vote! Democracy? Right? Take a public vote Packers!

Houndog's picture

Damn, Nick, once again you've pretty much covered it.
My brother, an OTR trucker and I talk often, and several weeks ago were discussing that what the Packers needed another Charles Woodson, and that's just one of your points. Kudos once again.
Ted has to go, and McPuffy needs to hear some ultimatums on assistant coaches for things to change.

Nick Perry's picture

Hey Houndog...Do you live in California and if so where. I thought you mentioned something about living in Cali earlier in the week. Just curious if you feel like answering.

Ferrari Driver's picture

Nick Perry,

What city do you live in/near in CA?

I live in the state as well.

If so, I will provide a temporary email as a contact point.

Nick Perry's picture

I live in Los Angeles Ferrari Driver.

Tundraboy's picture

Nailed it NP. The defense and failing to stock ARod with WRs in particular. Letting Cook go was the type of dumb move a team who has just won a championship sometimes does. Not a team who went years without a TE and no young rising backup waiting in the wings.

dobber's picture

"He's failed to keep the Packers STOCKED at the WR position while having the best QB on the planet and an O-Line who can protect him."

You're going after the WR position on a team that was routinely a top 5-8 offense with a running game that's primarily an after-thought? The pass-catchers have been more than good enough with ARod throwing to them...and far better than Hundley can handle.

Nick Perry's picture

I'm not "Going After" them dobber. If you look ahead to 2018 EVEN with Rodgers the position is getting pretty thin with quality and it's just my opinion, reason for concern looking ahead to next year and beyond. . Last season having Cook obviously helped fuel the "Run The Table" streak. But the success of the offense relies to much on the pinpoint accuracy of Rodgers, putting the ball in the absolute perfect spot. A couple of other quality WR's makes them lethal, especially now with some kind of running game again.

Nelson has showed he's not close to what he was without Rodgers and Cobb has disappeared once again. Cobb certainly wasn't lighting it up even with AR on the field. I really like who Adams has become. I think if the Packers could get a WR who could help from week one to go with Adams and Nelson they'd really have something. But they need at least one more, preferably two more WR by next season.

Pauly's picture

2014 blog post regarding Chiefs GM John Dorsey.
This post shows why drafting high is obviously good.

The 2018 Draft,, Packers have 12 picks. 10 of them are suppose to be in top 5 rounds.
Hopefully TT will bundle picks together to end up with perhaps 8 picks in top 3-4 rounds!!
I know TT likes a lot of picks, but look at success rate of rounds 6 and 7 and then remember he cut 3 of his 10,, 2017 picks and probably RB Mays.

Historic Success Chart... (Only 25% of drafted players became starters)
What the stats tell us about drafting positions by round from 10 years worth of draft data on all positions. The information was taken from Pro Football Reference.

This post has a simple criteria: How many players were drafted by position and round over the last decade and what percentage went on to become a starter. The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters.

What we find is that from 2005 until 2014:

2,465 players (non-kickers) were drafted.
629 (( 25%)) of those drafted became starters for at least half of their NFL careers
Of the 2,465 players:
122 were QBs, 207 were RBs, 421 were OL, 143 were TE, 317 were WR, 442 were DL, 303 were LB, and 510 were DB.

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

OrganLeroy's picture

Very Well Said!!! Since the day he was hired, I've never been a big Ted Thompson fan.

4zone's picture

TT had some good draft picks but exactly who did he sign in FA that has made a big difference. One gets busted for dope, another one tanks and throws in the towel and two others are stopgap replacements. One shouldn't have been necessary to begin with.

TT is draft, develop, then let go. We perpetually have way too many holes to fill every year and when we get good players, we under offer them and they bolt. If it weren't for AR, this team would be a perpetual sub .500 team at best.

We can't do anything but complain so why waste the breathe. No one in GB is listening.

jgando12's picture

It’s as if Murphy has been lulled into sleep mode due to Aaron’s prowess. Our D has been porous for the last 4 seasons yet, we remain loyal to Capers. We have had the same deficiencies every year: a laughable running game ( maybe Jones and Williams have answered that), aside from Mason, average special teams at best, and worthless back ups behind Aaron. Aside from one or two picks per year, our drafts are woeful. For every Bahktiari, there are two or three Montarviius Adams, Dontae Jones, Goodson’s (please God...no). If they let Eliot Wolf leave.....it would be very, very disappointing.

UmpireMark's picture

Murphy is too busy building Dollywood North outside Lambeau field, to give two hoots about football.

It's the Board of Directors that need to shake things up by recommending meaningful change takes place.

Two HOF QB's in 25 straight years has netted two Lombardi trophies in a mere 3 attempts.

Time for a shakeup.

OrganLeroy's picture

Why are you listing Montravious Adams, he missed most of training camp, has been brought along at the right pace, and is a FRICKIN' Rookie 3rd round pick, and you're already writing him off as a bust? It's fans like you that really PI$$ me off. It's Ignorance!

Packer Fan's picture

The injuries this year, including AR, has shown just how much talent there is on the team. The injury bug each year is frustrating and perplexing all at the same time. I thought at the start of the year when they added Brooks and Dial that they should have added a veteran OL and CB. What if TT had done that? Brooks and Dial have helped weather injuries. The CB is depleted to the point that if AR comes back it will be all dependent on him.

Well, we will see. If the Pack can get by Cleveland, and that is all about what will be, then we still have a chance. And we need Carolina, Atlanta and or Seattle to lose two games. Especially Carolina and Seattle because if AR can run the table, tie breakers will help with those two.

fthisJack's picture

sit Rodgers. no chance in hell they make the playoffs with Capers running the D. let hundley finish out the year to gauge what you have in him. and get rid of that useless DC after the season. make Wolf the next GM for 2019 and give him a big say in the 2018 draft.

OrganLeroy's picture

Ted's contract is up in April of 2018, why would you wait until 2019 to make Wolf GM?

rdent's picture

"Ted's contract is up in April of 2018, why would you wait until 2019 to make Wolf GM"? Lets hope they don't, unless GB again declines permission for other teams to interview him Wolf could more than likely be gone.

DD's picture

Same could be said for Capers Why?? Train going nowhere! Fails every year.

Free agent's picture

“Ted’s contract is up in April 2018”..... TT and MM should be let go after the season. Time for a shakeup within the organization, this team lacks aggressiveness and heart. I’d like to see Josh McDaniels as our new head coach. I think he's older and wiser and now ready to be an NFL head coach.
Rodgers would love to finish his career in GB with an innovative and successful offensive minded head coach.

croatpackfan's picture

Well, I think Elliot Wolf was already on 2 interviews. No job offering! That says something about how teams are eager to hire Elliot Wolf.

Gutekunst might be in jeopardy. He is Salary cap guru. Many teams will pay him a lot to get his knowledge how to keep healthy Salary Cap.

".. Why did the Packers allow Casey Hayward, Micah Hyde and T.J. Lang to walk? The Jaguars added defensive end Calais Campbell and cornerback A.J. Bouye in the offseason..."

Try with Salary Cap restrictions and much better offers from other teams...

But, I know many will say that Salary cap is just excuse...

UmpireMark's picture

Casey Hayward got an insane contract the Packers were wise to avoid. He has benefited from a weak, pass happy AFC West.

Hyde started out on fire but as of late is absent from meaningful stats.

Lang also got a ridiculous contract offer but isn't setting the world on fire in Detroit. Stafford is still getting the crap beat out if him.

The issue with these three guys (as a small example) is that routinely a veteran loss by the Packers usually is replaced by a rookie draft pick. NE, Pitt, Sea and teams routinely competing year after year do not react the same way.

Nick Perry's picture

Mark...The contract Hayward signed was for $15.3 million over 3 years. That's hardly an insane contract. I've been watching Chargers games since I live in LA from time to time this year. Hayward is almost always lined up on the opposing teams best WR. He doesn't just play in the slot as some think. Hayward plays in the slot, outside, wherever the Chargers need him. It really doesn't matter because he pretty much shuts them down.

Some say Hayward didn't play well enough to justify a contract offer. BS!! Thompson tried to get off cheap with rookies and to make matters worse a contract wasn't even offered.

The difference between Pittsburgh and GB is they hit on those draft picks. Just look at the last 5 or 6 drafts by Pittsburgh. They make a habit out of nailing at least 2 or their first 3 picks, sometimes all 3.

NE doesn't have the same success as Pittsburgh, at least recently but they normally pretty much hit that first pick and then find some gems in later rounds.

Just compare the Packers, Pats, and Steelers first round picks since say 2009 or 2010. It's absolutely no contest, the Packers are a distant distant 3rd when comparing those picks.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Yeah, the Chargers spent their money well.

fastmoving's picture

Thats just right, TT has his flaws, but letting people go is not one of them. Rather the opposite.
Sure, he is not always right....like in Haywards case. But he is way more than not....

just the players I recall in a second
- jennings
- lang
- sitton
- hyde
- williams
- house

rdent's picture

Croat, I believe it is Russ Ball who manages the salary cap.

croatpackfan's picture

Yeah, I was thinking of Russ Ball. Just messed up. My bad!

OrganLeroy's picture

Wrong guy, Gutekunst is NOT the salary cap guru, it's Russ Ball!

rdent's picture

Russ Ball has been involved for years in administrative duties like salary cap and player contracts but really lacks the experience in scouting and player evaluation that Wolf and Gutekust have.

daveh's picture

Will Packers give MM a free pass this season, due to injuries, which a norm for other teams also. I have said many times before the Packers will never go to the Super Bowl with present staff. I have a feeling this team will come here to Cleveland an Lay a BIG EGG..if that
Happens I am in for a long year from my Brown friends i'll being eat crow.. GP PACK

4thand1's picture

Aaron Rodgers is the best and worst thing that happened to the Packers. We all know it and can see it, but TT,MM, MM,refuse to . They are just praying to somehow make the playoffs again and take the pressure off. Of course if they don't, they will get a pass because AR got hurt. Hundley should not be as inept as he is after 3 years in the system, that's on MM and the rest of the coaches. He looks to be a college read option QB only. Then the bust of the Bennett signing will most likely give TT cold feet at signing a big name FA.

UmpireMark's picture

We tend to look at this season upside down. Those that say the Packers are less because Rodgers went down, oh well. Damn.

For the first time, Mcidiot has to coach with less. And is failing.

Belicheat without Brady, Tomlin without Big Ben or Brown pass the test when it happens. Minny with a carousel of QB's are now 10-2.

Mike's ability to coach without a HOF QB shows his true colors. Fail.

fthisJack's picture

his coaching is questionable but his real fault is not getting rid of coaches that are not producing i.e. Dom Capers.

OrganLeroy's picture

The Vikings are 10-2 MAINLY because of a top 5 defense! But they were obviously better prepared at backup QB, but that doesn't always work either, just look at the history of backups over the years in the NFL. Luck is a big factor as well.

DD's picture

Zimmer built a great defense in how long? Jags?
Rams, Eagles....... Why haven't we? Injury excuse again, and again! No, scout team and TT missing talent, snd hope, yes hope to develop. Time for major shakeup and changes! Who you say: Wolf, J. Leonard, even Holgrem, Cowher, Gruden, Harbaugh......or a younger offensive coordinator with vision and creativity. We got a decent offense, especially with Rodgers, but defense has not caught up in a long time.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

We need to go get Zimmer son the linebacker coach for the Vikings and make him defensive coordinator and finally get rid of Dom Capers once and for all

rickspics's picture

Mark look at the facts. You don't ask TT where his heart is, you show him the door along with DC and McC. Who's running this team? It seems to me the BOARD isn't. Their focus seems to be directed at building malls and trying to compete with the Packers version of Jerry World, than running a respectable team and making the tuff decisions. And you Mark, leadership starts at the top. You can't expect one player to do everything for you and continually bail out poor coaching decisions. Management is an embarrassment with their snarky interviews and poor performance. If this team had one owner, things would have changed years ago. The frozen tundra just doesn't relate to the grass they play on, it includes gray matter. No one should have to put up with this kind of behavior, you're not appointed for life. There are consequences you know. I've been a supporter of the Packers for well over 50 years and can't get over the fact that I keep hearing the "Next Year" BS. Well...where has that gotten us? Right here I guess! It isn't getting better Mark and yes the facts are the facts. You too can and should be replaced. You're days are numbered just like the players who don't perform. The BOARD needs to show some management skills, guts and vision to turn this situation around. Who wants to be the lead man?

fthisJack's picture

its all about the money and the money is rolling in, so, as long as they stay competitive the board is fine with TT,MM, Capers making the playoffs but never winning another SB. the bubble will burst when Rodgers is gone and its back to the 80's. then maybe change will happen.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

The BOARD isn't supposed to run football operations. They are supposed to build the park. The BOARD ran the team in the '70s and '80s. Never again.

BTW, per Jason Wilde, Bill Huber, others, TT's contract runs through the 2018 season and ends after the 2019 draft.

Nick Perry's picture

See that's what I had originally thought but this piece has suggest different and there was a piece in the Journal that suggests he's done after the 2018 draft....He's the quote

“I’m still in the camp that I wouldn’t be surprised if (Thompson) stayed on after (’18),” said an NFL source who knows Thompson well and has observed the Packers closely for years.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

TT's contract isn't public. The reporters were briefed on it. I've read either that TT is believed to be signed through the 2018 season (is that the league year, or right after our last game, or after the super bowl?) or through the 2019 draft.

I've never seen any article suggesting that TT's contract ends right after this upcoming draft in April/May of 2018.

Houndog's picture

What we all need to hope for is that the Packers' Board of Directors is as unhappy as (some of) we fans are, and without that we won't be seeing any pressure on Murphy.
I'm sick of the "Next Year' and "The Packers are always contenders" bull$hit. TT has now wasted the late part of Favre's career and the past 6 -7 years of Rodgers' career. Two HOF quarterbacks back-to-back, and two SBs! What are we waiting for, maybe Wolf's not the guy, but how do we find out, someone's going to take that chance sooner or later.
One thing's certain about Elliott Wolf, if he's hearing voices in his ear, it's likely the voice of a HOF former GM.

mrtundra's picture

If we don't make the playoffs, changes had better be coming to Green Bay. We risk becoming a mediocre team in a mediocre division if we continue down the path we are on. We cannot let that happen. I hope TT uses FA, again. I hope we draft well in this next draft.

Bret Iverson's picture

Mr. Thompson believes in having Packer people on his roster. Young and hungry for winning a Super Bowl. He listened to his coach and trying to sign Cook and then signed two TE's with a resume. Both have failed. Bennett had a ring and wanted another and felt the Packers had no shot with Hudley so he quit and Kendricks gets arrested for drugs and both sat during the National Anthem. You can see why we should not sign players with poor character and heart. Bennett was to upgrade the blocking for the running game. This all stems from failed drafts and FA's at one position TE. Everyone at home thinks this is an easy fix fire this coach or GM but it is not. Winning takes building a roster with where you draft and keeping picks. FA are boom or bust. The Packers will need to look inside themselves first. Ask some players to take a pay cut or release them. Draft best player available and hope some players develop into good or great players.

OrganLeroy's picture

Sitting during the national anthem has NOTHING to do with any of this, that statement just shows your ignorance!

Nick Perry's picture

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Ted Thompson failing to draft a TE in this past draft. It was LOADED at the TE position and he didn't take a swing.

5th round, Yancy, 6th round Amichia, and 7th round Dupre....Why not a TE there???

stockholder's picture

TT is all smoke and mirrors. He doesn't talk to the press. He values his job. TT could have signed Free agents. He could have signed those that left. But really; only good players could come to GB, and make an impact. ( And Like Bennet, some players are just a disease. ) TTs biggest failure is in his own ranks. Don Capers. The lizard that changes color. TT should have watched the stats of his defense over the years. And Acted. He didn't! He and MM made excuses. He made the picks. They were the missing pieces. But Why the revolving door, and position changes? Capers Wrecked the picks. A- Rod made up for the lack of communication between management. A defense he himself criticized. These guys are still the foxes that know how to get away from the hounds. But the stats don't lie. TT and MM should have made more than paper adjustments. Leaders now how to push and get results. TT should have pushed. Instead of digging a hole. (The chance approach.) RBs were another big hole. No one filled it. It slowed down the offense. All - pro guards and NO RB? TTs brain fart. TT wanted to play a numbers game. TT drafted and payed the player with the stats. The bitch was Defense! I don't think TT has much time left as a packer GM. But TT lost sight when they backed Capers. And lost the reality of stats all together.

nostradanus's picture

It is going to be a very interesting off-season indeed!
Thompson's contract is up after the 2018 NFL Draft?
Sounds to me like the stars are aligned and the time has come for the young Wolf and Gutekenst to take over running the front office with Ted stepping down to a consulting position. The Packers really can't afford to let these guys walk. Won't it be a treat to have young management staff that are actually willing to talk to the press more than once or twice a year and not talk in circles and cliches'. This franchise needs a GM who is willing to lead and not lurk in the shadows. I know Ted is light sensitive but come on dude, you are GM of one of the most iconic NFL teams in history and you only appear like twice a year and then don't really say anything? Thanks Ted for your hard work, but it's time to step away. Like the "white hair" always says "it's a young mans league". Just look what this young GM has done for the Brewers in short time. As for McCarthy, I expect him to stay on as Head Coach, but I predict (no I plead) that he will finally clean house on the Defensive side and show Dom the door. 2018 will be a new and energized time in Packers history!
Again it is going to be a very interesting off-season.
Take heart my cheesy brethren, grab a beer, kick back and know that change is coming.
NostraDANus

Qoojo's picture

I am not sure why people are so high on E. Wolf when no one knows just how good he is or how much he contributes. Given the FA pickups this past season, things might be changing. What has really hurt the packers is all the misses on defense in the draft for the past 5 years.

To answer Cory's question, Hayward was let go because he was oft injured, and faded after his rookie season. Hyde is too slow to cover faster TEs and WRs. Maybe the bills were smart enough to figure out how to use him properly. Lang, I am not sure why, supposedly money. I don't remember if he even got an offer from TT.

It all comes down to A. Rodgers allowing these clowns to have no sense of urgency. Without Rodgers, this is a 4-6 win team, depending on the schedule. So everyone thinks that they are geniuses.

I am still not sure if the cupboard is so bare on the defensive side, or if capers can't optimize the talent he has. Another possibility is that capers' D is too complicated for the perpetually young defense.

Whatever the case might be, the packers have been stuck in the same gear. Good enough to make the playoffs, but defense not good enough to progress to superbowl and win. But it keeps the fans engaged and the packers making money, because it seems most fans think that they have a shot every year because Rodgers covers up so much.

But once you get past the wild card round, the defenses and offenses are generally good. So that means Rodgers that eventually, the offense cannot score on almost every possession, and the defense rarely forces a punt. Game over, see you next year.

That's why I find it funny that people think the packers have a shot this year if they make it to the playoffs. Because history clearly says that the defense will doom them, and the defense has only got weaker due to injuries this year. No uptick in defense this year.

UmpireMark's picture

In my opinion, I feel the marketplace is dictating if Wolf has talent or not. Every GM opening that comes up, his name gets floated about. Someone's gonna take a chance on him before the Packers pull the trigger.

The fact remains, we can guess more about Wolf's credentials than any of us knew about TT ten years ago.

Question ... Teddy's contract goes through the 2018 draft ... following the 2018 season or the draft coming up? Anyone know that answer?

rdent's picture

I have read several times that TT's contract runs to through the 2018 draft. After that...??

Since '61's picture

We can go back and forth all day with which players TT should or should not have signed or drafted. Who was a bust and who wasn't, etc., etc.,

The bottom line is that the Packers are at a crossroads with TT. If you look at TT's record he has fielded a team with 8 consecutive playoff appearances and still counting. He has an SB victory and the Packers have a .600+ winning percentage during his tenure. Is it all because of Aaron Rodgers? Probably, at least since the 2010 SB anyway.

Point is that is all in the past. The 2017 edition of the Packers is 2-5 without Rodgers having defeated the lowly Bears and the inept Bucs. The defense hasn't stopped a good offense in years and gets cut to pieces by good NFL QBs. It's time to move on. This team needs changes in how it approaches building the team and on the defensive side of the football. Sometimes a fresh approach is needed even in a successful organization.

If we agree/accept that injuries are part of football then we need to be better prepared when the expected injuries happen. Other teams have injuries and they don't necessarily go 2-5. Minnesota is winning with defense and making a mediocre QB look like an All-Pro.
The Jags changed their management by hiring TomCoughlin to run football operations and hired Doug Barone as HC and they are a playoff contender at least after being an NFL doormat for decades.

At the least Capers must go. He is paid like a head coach and he has no accountability even though our defense plays like a confused high school junior varsity. I have posted for years that the defense needs a leader on the field, better tackling, and a nastier attitude. Yet poor tackling, poor pass coverage, and a poor pass rush are allowed to go on season after season.

Special teams need a change. This is another area of the team which has languished in mediocrity for years. The only consistent bright spot has been Mason Crosby.

I would keep MM to maintain continuity with Rodgers and the offense but it's time to move on from TT, Capers, Zook and maybe a few other assistants. Thanks, Since '61

stockholder's picture

The first move must be removing Capers. This move changes the defensive stats. It's a new fresh start for many. The 2nd. A back-up QB. The Back-up QB changes the offensive stats. ( since A-Rod. ) 3rd. Get a new QB coach for that Back-up. PAY COACHES WHO PRODUCE. I think MM still does TOO MUCH.

UmpireMark's picture

Theres an interesting article on Bleacher Report, a few days back, that states there are zero coaches within MM's ranks any team feels could be plucked into coaching positions elsewhere. In fact, three coaches from the McCarthy tree have failed miserably in the NFL.

That tells me, at least, that Mike has become stale and isn't teaching anything other teams feel the need to pilfer. Says a lot.

I feel with 10 years of this regime, overall change is needed. To state that MM needs to stay for continuity with Rodgers, please! Rodgers is super talented. He'll adjust. He might even thrive in a new system.

Since '61's picture

Stockholder - I agree that MM does too much. When AR first went down I posted that MM should let Rodgers call the plays to keep him involved with the offense, guide Hundley and allow MM to pay more attention to the defense during the game. Of course that didn't happen and I don't know if it would have helped anyway. But MM has needed to make changes for a long time and he hasn't. Thanks, Since '61

Pauly's picture

This 2014 post for John Dorsey makes a lot of sense on that subject and how to deal with the Packers 2018 draft.
I have been talking a lot about importance of 2018 draft to re-configure the Packers for the future of AR's remaining years...
2018 Draft,, Packers have 12 picks. 10 of them are suppose to be in top 5 rounds.

The numbers below show us the best opportunities of finding consistent starters.

HISTORIC SUCCESS CHART...
(Only 25% of drafted players became starters)

What the stats tell us about drafting positions by round from 10 years worth of draft data on all positions. The information was taken from Pro Football Reference.
This post has a simple criteria: How many players were drafted by position and round over a 10 year period and what percentage went on to become a starter. The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters.

What we find is that from 2005 until 2014:

2,465 players (non-kickers) were drafted.
629 (( 25%)) of those drafted became starters for at least half of their NFL careers
Of the 2,465 players:
122 were QBs, 207 were RBs, 421 were OL, 143 were TE, 317 were WR, 442 were DL, 303 were LB, and 510 were DB.

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)

5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)

6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)

7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

Hopefully TT or Wolf will be more aggressive and bundle picks together to end up with perhaps 8 picks in top 3-4 rounds!!
I know TT likes a lot of picks, but look at success rate of rounds 5, 6 and 7 and then remember he cut 3 of his 10,, 2017 picks and maybe will cut RB Mays.

marpag1's picture

I'm not sure the numbers are saying what you think they say. Let's assume that the Packers draft 20th. And let's assume they're looking for an O-line guy. Using a standard draft value chart, the 20th pick of the first round is worth 850 points. The 20th pick of the second round is worth 380. So that means you would need to give up 2 second round picks and a high fourth round pick (90 points) to equal one first rounder.

So which do you want? A) One first round pick with a success rate of 83%, or B) Two second round picks each with a success rate of 70% and also a D4 pick at 39%. I'll take option B, hands down.

A third round pick at 20 is worth 170 points. That means you'd need to give up five third rounders to get one first rounder. So do you want one D1 pick with a success rate of 83%, or FIVE D3 picks with a success rate of 40% ? At 40%, five picks yield two starters. Obviously, a D1 pick can't produce more than one, and there's a 17% you WON'T get one.

A fourth round pick at 20 is worth 62 points. That means you'd need to give up almost 14 fourth rounders to equal one first rounder. Do you want to have one pick with a 83% success rate, or FOURTEEN picks with a 29% rate? So one out of three D4 picks will be a "hit" ... and you get 14 picks.

From here is gets pretty ludicrous. You'd need 26 fifth rounders, or 44 sixth rounders or 129 seventh rounders to move up to a first, The seventh round success rate for O-line is 10%. Are you going to take one pick with 83% success, or 129 picks with 10% success? WIth 129 picks you should get a dozen starters!

Obviously, nothing that wacky is ever going to happen in real life. But moving up in the draft is definitely not as good an idea as a lot of people think.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Not only do I think these numbers aren't saying what Pauly thinks they are saying, I don't think they say anything at all. I know I couldn't wade through the data to determine which of 2,600 players started for half of their careers, which is the poster's determinant for success. Did Hyde start half of his career in GB? I'd say yes, he essentially was a starter for GB for more than half of his time here. [He started 33 of a possible 64 games, and played -guessing now- 65% of snaps most seasons.] PFR says he was the primary starter for one of his 4 seasons. Not a success.

TT's "successes" since 2005 (closest but no cigar):

'05 2/11 picks: AR, Collins (no to Poppinga)
'06 3/12 picks: Hawk, Colledge, Jennings (no: Jolly)
'07 1/10 picks: James Jones (non kickers - so no Crosby)
'08 4/9 picks: Nelson, Finley, Sitton, Giacomini
'09 3/8 picks: Raji, Matthews, Lang
'10 3/7 picks: Bulaga, Burnett, Newhouse (no to Starks)
'11 1/10 picks: Cobb (no to Mike Neal)
'12 1/8 picks: Daniels (no to Casey Hayward)
'13 2/11 picks: Lacy, Bakh (no to Tretter, Hyde)
'14 3/9 picks: Dix, Adams, Linsley (no to RR)

Using this methodology, TT successes and %:
23/95 picks, or a 24.2% success rate.

By round:

1): 6/10 (60%) 1/1 QB, 2/3 LB, 1/3 DL, 1/1 S, 1/2 OT)
2): 7/14 (50%) 3/4 WR; 1/1 OG, 1/1 S; 1/2 RB;
3): 3/9 (33%), 1/1 WR, 1/2 TE, 1/2 S
4): 4/15 (27%) 3/5 OL, 1/2 DL
5): 2/16 (12.5%) 2/6 OL
6): 0/14 (0%) [Crosby would be 1/15 but kickers aren't inc.]
7): 0/17 (0%) [I didn't exclude Harris as a ST player - LS.]

CONCLUSIONS Per this methodology:

TT is a dead average drafter
TT drafts offense (16 hits) better than Defense (7)
TT is really good drafting WRs and OL

Best 6th/7th Rounders: Starks, Jolly, Bishop, B. Jones

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tel...

Lphill's picture

The Giants suck so they fire the coach and GM , the Yankees come up short of the World Series and they fire the coach and go after signing one of the best players in the game. The Packers come up short year after year and it's business as usual the following season. What's wrong with this picture?

UmpireMark's picture

Neither the Giants nor the Yankees have got a playground next to their stadiums!

Did I nail it?

4thand1's picture

The Yankees suck and there's no cap in baseball. The Giants, injuries at WR and Eliability.

Turophile's picture

If I were to guess TTs replacement, I have two ideas.

The first idea is that I have NO idea who the Packers go for if they go outside the organisation for the next GM.

The second idea is if they go internally for the replacement. I'd suggest that (from most likely to least), I'd go with Russ Ball, Brian Gutekunst, Eliot Wolf, in that order. For those surprised at the order i have them in, I have the highest regard for Ball, I think he could be special, as good as John Schneider.

Bub Christensen's picture

Elliott Wolf is not even being mentioned for any of the open jobs. Is it just the Wolf name that gets you excited?
As for Hayward NO ONE was on the you have to sign him band wagon for the year before he was left to FA. Have any of you actually looked at his production over those three years leading up to him going to FA. Tell me now your crystal ball said he would play well.

Hyde? Now that is a laugh he was playing well when his new teams defensive front was on fire, some injuries later he has fallen off the field. Hyde made splash plays and he gave up more splash plays, damn shame so many are blinded by making some plays and ignore the bad ones.

Lang just came off the third year in a row that he required surgery, and he had to have two different ones after the 2016 season.
And his FA signed replacement is no let down.

Face it you hate TT, and choose to ignore injuries as the reason for the teams record this year.
Of course I suppose someone that thinks as you would blame TT for not having practice squad players that have had to start multiple games this year are not All Pro's.
Is everything perfect? Hell no, but the fact remains no team in the NFL has been more effected by injuries then then the Packers, and anyone that blames that on TT well, you know what you are.

UmpireMark's picture

TT apologists like you, are blinded by the year you're currently in and fail to look at the product as a whole.

Take a good look at the body of work (11 years) and see the same continued trends. Injuries this year is a symptom, the overall body of results (or lack of them) of 11 years is a trend .......

Defense perennially in the bottom third.
Some colossal catastrophic collapse ends our season.
High draft pics on defensive players that rarely outlive their rookie contracts.
One of the youngest fielded teams in the NFL.
Reliance on many undrafted free agent players.

Take your TT glasses off and evaluate the full body of work. Ask yourselves if we've fielded a better team in any year than we had the previous year. If one Super Bowl is the result of injuries and unfortunate bounces and not a trend that points to continuing under this same regime, then I'll admit I'm wrong. But I doubt the last 10 year's result do not point for a miracle change of fortunes next season.

fastmoving's picture

"unfortunate bounces"?????? you are kidding, I understand.
Besides that, I understand not a lot in your post.....sorry, must be blinded by something

fastmoving's picture

100 % agree, nothing to add, Bub...............

A Pickled Packer's picture

Until we post a losing record or we don't make the playoffs 2 years in a row I wouldn't expect anything to change. The fan base is still strong and the money continues to roll in. So why change anything? What I expect to see is Capers being given his gold watch and thanked for his illustrious service and defensive genius and then shown the door. This is my hope.

OrganLeroy's picture

This is the most likely scenario. Even if we beat Cleveland and AR comes back, we probably still lose to Carolina and probably Minnesota, so 8-8 gets no one fired, the excuse is injuries and the same old rolls along into 2018. Better get used to that!

rdent's picture

The present GB organization has been in a comfort zone for some years now and does not want to lose that by making any changes, I do not expect this off season will be any different.

Lphill's picture

4thand1 my point was the Yankees and the Giants made necessary moves and they both listen to the fans gripes because they need their fans support , apparently the Packers don't listen to their fan base because Lambeau is always full as opposed to Yankee and Giants stadiums that will be half empty if the teams don't produce.

OrganLeroy's picture

That's exactly right, it's about selling out the stadium and overall revenue stream, look at the Cubs, same thing, stadium always sold out and they weren't making the post season!

fastmoving's picture

Im a fan and I like it a lot that the Pack dont listen to this couple of dramqueens and crybabies.
They all smart at the pc but Im not sure what they accomplished in here own life and what convinced them they know better......
Actually that posts speak volumes...not about TT or someone else....about themself

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Nothing's going to change like Murphy just got done stating he wants Ted Thompson to last as long as possible so nothing's going to change guys get ready for more losing years and more waste of Aaron Rodgers time 12 years in the playoffs and we only went to the Superbowl 1x. Pathetic. If you do everything the same as you've always done then you're always going to have what you have right now.

MarkinMadison's picture

I know it is really hard to win a Super Bowl, but Farve and Rodgers seem destined to both finish their careers as the two best QBs to ever play the game with only one Super Bowl win to show for it. I'm not sure what it all means, but it means something. Maybe the problem is that once people got their Super Bowls under their belts they just felt too safe.

UmpireMark's picture

Hard to win a Super Bowl?

Since we beat the Pats in 1997, they've been to what, 7 more? To our two more?

Just sayin ..... ....

Doug Niemczynski's picture

And it looks like the Patriots are going again this year too must be nice to go to the Super Bowl every year well we just sit at home I think we're second to them or equal to the Patriots winning seasons and we only been to the Super Bowl one time I got to just say that's pathetic

OrganLeroy's picture

The major problem with your logic is that the Pats have been in the worst Division in the AFC the last 7 years and the NFC has been much much better than the AFC the last 7 years.

rdent's picture

OrganLeroy, listed here are SB winners in the last 7 years.
2010 - Saints
2011- Packers
2012- Giants
2013- Ravens
2014- Seahawks
2015- Patriots
2016- Broncos
2017- Patriots. 4-4. Looks even to me.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

We've had Dom Capers way too long buddy that's the only thing I see that has always hurt us is our feaking bad defenses

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Offenses get you to the playoffs but the defense get you to the Super Bowl and wins it

Jim Miller's picture

"Thompson’s contract is over the day after the 2018 NFL Draft"

I have heard that his contract runs until 2018 season is over

rdent's picture

It might as well, after the draft what difference does it make except perhaps another couple FA signings that will have little or no impact.

Golden Retriever's picture

I don’t understand why so many fans seem to think Eliot Wolf will be the second coming of his father. He is unproven. So is Brian Gutekunst for that matter. Those two have presumably been Ted Thompson’s go-to guys at draft time. We don’t know how much or how little influence they have over TT. I hope the Packers will at least interview a handful of GM candidates outside Green Bay when the time comes to choose Thompson’s successor.

UmpireMark's picture

Remember that TT was "just a scout" like Wolf and Gutkenist are right now when he first came to Green Bay. He too, was unproven 13 years ago.

GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

it is time to make serious management changes. But I have zero faith that it will happen. This is beyond ridiculous. To piggyback off a previous post the body of work over TT’s tenure is absolute failure.

4thand1's picture

The only coach to actually get fired was a special teams coach over the last 7 years? Was ST's that much worse than the defense?

Cheesehead79's picture

You can’t keep giving Thompson and Capers a pass anymore. We’ve been waiting for a top 10 Defense for years now. Capers is good, and can disguise well, but he’s too cute. We need a Jim Schwartz swagger with a 3-4 type of defense. The secondary is a mess. And it’s just unfathomable to me that you let Heyward walk for a few million, and then Hyde. And BOTH don’t receive at least an offer, and blow up the league. Your answers were staring you in the face. You don’t need to draft if you have players on roster. I understand the cap ramifications, but what makes this more egregious is they weren’t breaking the bank by any means on the FA market. Randall, Rollins, King....unproven. So we’re wasting more draft picks again this year trying to fix a secondary that had the answers in place. And if you’re the boss who didn’t see that, you’ve got to go, or at least step down and advise, but let someone else make the call.

Cheesehead79's picture

We’re like the Oakland Athletics of the NFL. Moneyball. We’ll draft em, develop em, and let them get good. When it’s time to pay them and they’re in their prime, let them go. Or, they’re past prime on way down, and we get them on the cheap again and hope they out perform. With two exceptions...Rodgers and Matthews. Good job Ted. Stratify. Belichick does.

WinUSA's picture

I am afraid the train has left the station. The management team that made this organization great has been raided and our management has been decimated. McKenzie, Dorsey, Schneider, plus 3 great college scouts have all left. In it's place is a shell of an organization. Young Wolf by name, has been anointed as the candidate most likely to take his place. Ron Wolf was great, but nepotism often does NOT mean the offspring has the same savvy, instinct, courage, and knowledge as the father. Lombardi's son is a perfect example.

The Packers heartbeat is Aaron Rodgers, he by himself has shielded the Packer administration from a lot of hard criticism that in other organizations would be on the table.

Dom Capers, whether it is because of players provided, or his being out of touch with the personalities of this generation of football players and new today's offensive schemes should have been cut from this organization a long time ago. This is solely on Thompson shoulders. If management had an ounce of guts they would grab Leonard from the Badgers before he is stolen by another NFL brain trust.

To give Thompson some credit, he has been slotted annually in the worst draft position possible, but so has New England. The last time Thompson had a decent position to draft he got Raji and Mathews. The NFL parity scheme has not been a friend of the Packers.

After watching the Rams vs Eagles game it became so clear how far away the Packers are from really being a super bowl contender. To think that we have any shot this year or the next, or the next, is just wishful thinking and great marketing by the Packers.

Yes, beating the Browns gave Packer fans a weekend to rejoice, but come on it was the Browns for Pete's. sake. The Browns future in Dorsey's hands and their position in the draft will guarantee a bright future for that organization. A team on the rise.

The Packers are a team on the descent. Their star players are aging, management is questionable and the future I fear is going to be reminiscent of the 80's for this organization. Brace yourselves Packers faithful, without a hall of fame quarterback at the helm we will return to mediocrity at best.

I am a Packer fan and have not missed but a handful of games in over half a century. I will still watch til the day I die. But history has a way of repeating itself and unfortunately unless there is some drastic management changes I fear mediocrity it is here to stay for a while.

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