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Cory's Corner: Power play by Mike McCarthy

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Cory's Corner: Power play by Mike McCarthy

What started out as a simple reorganization has turned into a power play within the halls of 1265 Lombardi Ave.

The Packers didn’t show general manager Ted Thompson the door. They moved him out of the corner office and gave him the title senior advisor to football operations. Here’s the problem: the odds-on favorite to grab that vacated GM chair is Russ Ball who just so happened to be Thompson’s right hand man. Oh, and Ball doesn’t have any scouting experience, which would seemingly make what looks to be a huge change into more of the same.

And because of that absurdity, Bob McGinn is reporting that Mike McCarthy would quit his job as head coach of the Packers if Ball were to get hired.

That’s a bombshell. Obviously, with McCarthy’s 121-70-1 overall record, 10-8 playoff record, a Super Bowl title and six division titles, he will be the No. 1 coaching free agent if that were to happen. But the question remains: Has McCarthy racked up that glossy resume because of Aaron Rodgers or because of McCarthy’s ability to cultivate and develop talent? (And ironically enough, the trio of Tom Brady, Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft aren’t getting along.)

The Packers made the right move, but I don’t think Thompson should’ve stayed onboard. Green Bay knows it has four more solid years with Rodgers pending injury and this is a time of urgency. Things need to happen. Rodgers needs protection up front, he needs a running game and he needs a defense that can at least get off the field on third down.

And to highlight how disorganized the football operations is in Green Bay, Alonzo Highsmith didn’t even bother to interview with the Packers before accepting a job with the Browns. And Reggie McKenzie declined to be interviewed for the general manager post, despite rising as high as director of football operations for the Packers.

This is a big offseason for the Packers. They have the 14th pick in the draft, which is the highest they’ve been since 2009 when the Packers took B.J. Raji ninth and traded back into the first round to grab Clay Matthews at 26. And speaking of Matthews, the new general manager has to decide if he’s worth the $11.3 million cap hit for 2018 or cut his losses and release him at the cost of nothing.

And if Eliot Wolf, Brian Gutekunst or a wild card from the outside gets the general manager job, expect McCarthy to have a stronger voice in free agent acquisitions. Not signing Micah Hyde, Jared Cook, Julius Peppers and Lang were the biggest misses by the Packers last offseason. The sharp eye of the Packers’ scouts lost a step and McCarthy knows that without a significant change, things aren’t going to turn around.

The Packers need at least three Pro Bowl-quality players on each side of the ball if they want to sniff the Super Bowl again. On offense, the Packers have three with Rodgers, Davante Adams and David Bakhtiari. However, on defense, the Packers have zero. McCarthy sees that. The outside linebackers in a 3-4 defense have to be rock stars, yet that hasn’t happened and it’s why inside linebacker Blake Martinez has become the most consistent player on defense because the guys on the outside are getting overmatched.

Packers president Mark Murphy is using a search firm, but he said he will be making the final call on the general manager. What was the point in hiring a firm if Thompson was just going to pull the strings from a distance?

McCarthy looks like he’s playing a serious game of chicken with the guys upstairs. But there’s nothing wrong with change because it means that the Packers still have lofty standards.

Just as long as Green Bay isn’t full of hubris to embrace change.

 

 

 

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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He is also nearing completion of a master's degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter @Coryjennerjohn

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (189) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

stockholder's picture

Good for MM. The TARGET SHOULD BE THE SUPER-BOWL. NOT SOMEONE'S BACK.

Coldworld's picture

With respect, the retention of TT or otherwise is not necessarily the determinant factor here. Rather it is the character, role and vision of Murphy. TT could easily stay without major issue if Murphy has an independent mind and courage of his convictions to replace him.

If there is a problem here it appears that Murphy doesn’t and continues to defer to TT’s vision and preferences. If that is the case, then either TT’s departure was in fact not reflective of a recognition for change but a function of TT’s personal desires or Murphy has no other vision or lacks the character to shape the Packers without simply doing as TT proposes.

If Murphy lacks a personal vision or the strength to impose it he has failed in his critical role and should be fired.

If the Exec Committee allows this under such circumstances then they should all resign in shame.

If the issue is that there is no acceptance of the need to change then many of us are being unfair on MM. Under that scenario, we begin to see a coach frustrated with lack of support from the FO.

This would perhaps fit with TT’s uncharacteristically active off season last year. Just spitballing, but if the rumors regarding MM and Ball are true, perhaps that was a result of MM stamping his feet for at least a couple of years, with Ball being the major obstacle.

Indeed, take it further, was Ball acting to dissuade TT from FA activity for a long time? It would certainly make Ball’s job easier.

If there is any semblance of truth in the current rumors one could see Ball as the reason the Packers never quite had the team to get that second super bowl.

This process is making me reconsider some of my feelings about MM. I think we may have underestimated the obstacles he has faced internally since TT started pulling back four or five years ago, with much of the delegated authority falling on one Russ Ball by all accounts. This coincides with the worst wasted seasons of the TT MM era.

Overall, we may have missed the true demon and failed to realize how big the leadership vacumn above TT is in Green Bay.

cuervo's picture

Wow.....how many more conspiracy theories can you come up with?

None of us, ( I repeat NONE) and not even the one and only Bob McGinn have any idea of what truly is going on. The idea that TT will still be pulling the strings is just plain stupid. There is nothing wrong or sinister with what Murphy is doing.

If MM is indeed claiming he'll leave if Ball is the GM, (which I doubt is true) then adios. Just like the players play and coaches coach, coaches coach and GM's run the football operations. If he doesn't like it, find a job elsewhere.

Coldworld's picture

It’s true that we know nothing. Therefore one can only address rumors. If the rumors have any validity then those are my thoughts. Blind faith is so much less fun and right now, I am not feeling much faith.

Bure9620's picture

Pretty sure he is not suggesting Murphy is sinister or malevolent, just ill equipped for this position and in over his head.

Coldworld's picture

Spot on. This is not a commentary on Ball as an an individual!

GVPacker's picture

Thats my assessment of Mark Murphy as well. He's a yes-man paper shuffler errand boy nothing more.

barutanseijin's picture

An errand boy, sent by grocery clerks

Coldworld's picture

Nor is it a personal comment on Mark Murphy

Nick Perry's picture

"None of us, ( I repeat NONE) and not even the one and only Bob McGinn have any idea of what truly is going on. The idea that TT will still be pulling the strings is just plain stupid. "

THE HELL IT IS! THIS is EXACTLY what Murphy meant when he said "The Packers have a plan in order when Ted Thompson steps aside as GM" just a few years ago at the combine. This huge bunch of BS is going exactly by plan. There's nothing changing at 1265 Lombardi Ave, Thmpson is still moreless calling the shots, the difference now is he'll have Ball out front instead of himself.

Packers fans have been Okie Doaked BIG TIME. This was predetermined a long time ago. But the saddest thing of all, the thing myself and others have been clamoring about for YEARS, is Thompson has pissed away the last 7 years of a probable once in a like time QB. Now we're talking about having possibly 4 or 5 more and pairing him with a WORSE version of Thompson or possibly just a Thompson puppet where Ted is mearly pulling the stings from behind.

The talent levels began to drop off around the same times as Schnieder, Dorseys, and McKinnzies departures. Don't believe it just LOOK at the God damn drafts. People ALWAYS point to players like Collins, Sitton, Rodgers, Lang, Matthews, Jennings, Nelson, and others as "Examples" of Thompsons great track record. The thing is NOT ONE of those players were picked at a time when the Packers didn't have one of those 3 working at 1265 Lombardi. Thompson hasn't done DODDIE since they left other than an occasional hit here and there. Hell Ray Charles could hit the center of a dart board every once in a while if given enough chances and Thompsons had plenty.

Just the comments made by Highsmith in departure and McKinnzie suggest something is rotten in Green Bay and they want NO PART of it. Last week before Doddie hit the fan I said keeping McCarthy was the least of the 3 evils, but removing Thompson and Capers were Job #1 and #1A. Now McCarthy doesn't even wanmt part of this mess!

There's a saying in a 12 Step Program that I've tried to practice over the last 20 plus years.

"If NOTHING changes, then NOTHING changes" OR " If you keep doing the same ole thing, you'll keep getting the same ole result".

The Packers aren't doing a damn thing different, not really if Ball is named GM. McCarthy doesn't want to work with him. Rodgers doesn't want him as GM.

cuervo's picture

OK, so a guy that has exceeded expectations at every level of the NFL that he has been exposed to, and has the unbridled respect by other NFL front offices, agents, and players.....is somehow not qualified to be the GM for the Green Bay Packers because he happened to work there when TT was the GM. I sure won't be hiring any of you for the open HR position at at my company.

McKenzie has a job, maybe he likes it there. Highsmith knew he would never get the GM position here and left, who can blame him? Neither one of these facts prove or point to some "problem" with the Packers front office.

Looks to me like Murphy is doing what he said he would...interviewing internal and external candidates. Just because of a bunch of reporters claim they know what's going on, doesn't mean diddly. If you haven't noticed, so called journalists are wrong as often as they are correct.

Everyone can have their opinion, I just find the level of frustration based on rumor and inuendo a bit much. But flame away...

cuervo's picture

1

dobber's picture

No flaming on my part. We'll written.

I would rather work in the mailroom than in HR...got any openings?

cuervo's picture

"I would rather work in the mailroom than in HR."

So would I....HR is the eternal hell of any business. Unfortunately we don't have a mailroom per se, or you'd be first in line.

If we have a front office shakeup, I'll let you know :)

Nick Perry's picture

"McKenzie has a job, maybe he likes it there. Highsmith knew he would never get the GM position here and left, who can blame him? Neither one of these facts prove or point to some "problem" with the Packers front office."

Maybe, but once the dust settles I'll be very curious to see how much control Gruden has in Oakland. For example Andy Reid was given complete control over the who was drafted and all personel moves. I'd be shocked to see if gruden doesn't have at least that and maybe more control. My guess is McKinnzie will either resign or get fired within 2 years.

Highsmith knew he would never get a fair shot in GB, that's what Highsmith knew. My point was this whole thing we're all watching in GB unfold now was all predetermined. Murphy had this plan in place at least 2 years ago and Thompsons been part of it the whole way. Obviously this is just a feeling or opinion, just like you have yours.

Finwiz's picture

The problem with your logic is, McGinn's been in the biz for a LONG time and has highly placed sources. The machine up there is leaking like a sieve because certain people LIKE McCarthy want this to get out in the public.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. I think McGinn is likely spot-on.

lou's picture

I agree Finwiz, with 39 years covering the team Bob McGinn has a history of accurate reporting and will report both sides of the issues which is rare today and in logical detail. In reference to Murphy being a "paper pusher", some may believe that because Bob Harlan set a standard of being open to the public but low key and know matter what acclaim he has received it is well deserved. Multiple times I have had the Packers IT Director speak on how the NFL uses technology at IBM Partner meetings and sent a thank you to Bob and always received a hand written note back from him,, where else in the NFL could this happen. Murphy's background is impeccable, NFL starter, Super Bowl winner, has a law degree and like Harlan is accessible but low key and like Harlan when action is needed he has stepped forward. Anything but a low key atmosphere exits right now because the playoff run has expired and coaches/players ego's are now on display which will lead to all kinds of rumors. McCarthy said the other day when referencing player comments, "conflict is not always bad", I agree, lets see how all of these issues play out and look for how positive it can be for 2018. I sure hope the Head Coach/GM chatter is just that, chatter because it can get a coach (Marty Schotteneimer) fired after a 14-2 season. That ended his career, the GM got the axe 2 years later but got another GM job later. We are blessed to have great people running the Green Bay Packers.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Nick, For what it is worth I agree with you. TT is Transitioning to another area within the Organization?? My Ass!! Murphy should be the 1st of 3 people out of this Organization, right ahead of the "Head Guy" & Capers. I'm not in favor of changing a Head Coach with AR still at the Helm, unless he is calling for it. MM may not be a Great Coach without AR, but he did do a Pretty Good job with all the injuries over the last few years. I agree with Finwiz. I think MM is still a Pretty Good Coach

As far as Murphy goes. What The Hell keeps him around. What's in his Pedigree that anyone would want. He came from Northwestern. Look at what they did with him there. NOTHING!! I mentioned this a few years ago already. I want to get rid of Murphy, right along with the "Head Guy" & Capers. This is nothing but a Good OId Boy's Club, & they're all Stuffing their Pockets. & it also goes to the Appointed GM Guru Elliot Wolf, who's part of it. That's for another post. Get Rid Of All Of Them, & Start Over. Give me all the dislikes you want, I could care less.
LVT

Nick Perry's picture

Excellent post LVT, especially the part about "Good ole boys club"...How true is that!!!

Murphy, Thompson, and Ball. More like Curly, Mo, and Larry. This just seems so convoluted now when it DIDN'T need to be.

Bearmeat's picture

That makes total sense coldworld. Great post.

Duneslick's picture

Packer Greg says
Ball's background is in finance. Why wouldn't a CEO (Murphy) see that as a major reason for hiring him. Murphy needs too look at more than the dividends he is paying the stockholders (so he can keep his job) and choose someone who can evaluate and draft players, evaluate scouts and evaluate the head coach. Ball may have learned some of this but it is not his strength. Murphy please look at the big picture and not dollars and cents and choose a football person.

I think the reasons above are why people are turning down interviewing for the GM position.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

In GB, shareholders don't receiver any dividends. This is just dumb.

You know cap dollars and profit are completely separate things, right? GB spend 99.01% of the cap in 2016. In 2017, they have spent more than the $167M cap limit so far this year (close to 100% if we get something back from Martellus' signing bonus). GB can't spend any more on players than it has been. The only way to improve is to spend the cap more wisely, which means that the amount of expenditures on players has to be married to prescient evaluation of the talent and likely production of said players.

I think talent evaluation is more important or at least harder to be good at than cap, so I don't favor Ball, but Ball could be the exception to the rule of hiring the best talent evaluator you can find as your GM.

The TKstinator's picture

I don’t agree that allowing Lang to leave was a mistake.

Rossonero's picture

Agreed. He played in 12 games, was not a Pro Bowler and the Lions ranked last in rushing offense. He was fantastic for us, but injuries were catching up to him. At least we'll get a 4th or 5th round comp. pick for him.....we got nothing for cutting Sitton.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Letting go of both of them was fine. Lossing value by cutting Sitton the stupid way really surprised me.

If McCarthy really wants to do some power play then let him go too. They don't need that kind of attitude. Frankly I'm tired of listening to McCarthy try to bullshit us on the press stand spouting nonsense only rubes would buy.

The reason IMO many coaches fail is the lack of QBs around the league. That appears to be one of the few issues not effecting the Packers at the moment. The others are a great business model, facilities and salary cap situation. Those two things are because of Russ Ball and Mark Murphy.

Coldworld's picture

In fairness to MM, name a coach anywhere who says anything other than coach speak these days other than maybe BB who may say nothing at all

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Craig Counsel. Paul Chryst. There are lots of them who don't say something that is laughably false on regular occasions. Anyone who claims "Brett Hundley improved towards the end of the season" is totally full of shit.

Coldworld's picture

With you on the Hundley point at least.

Coldworld's picture

With you on the Hundley point at least.

Finwiz's picture

Yeah, the fact McCarthy would say anything PAUSATIVE about Hundley at this point is grounds for dismissal on that basis alone. He must think fans are really, really stupid. I wonder if he cares how absolutely stupid he sounds when he talks glowingly about Hundley?

croatpackfan's picture

So, you all think that spitting on player will be right thing? That other players will play for that type of coach? They will follow coach who publicly spitting on players?

BRAVO! Another step in rught direction Packers Nation!

Congratulates you all!

jeremyjjbrown's picture

I can think of plenty of honest things to say about Hundley without "spitting" on him. I think Mike could too, or he could always just decline to comment if he didn't have anything productive to add.

Tundraboy's picture

True, but in complete fairness the problem with McCarthy is he says these things over and over without any tangible Improvement. D is worse than ever and now the offense is going the wrong way. And as pointed out his comments on Hundley are laughable.

Bure9620's picture

Agreed, wrong side of 30 with 2 bionic shoulders, Lang is not worth the money. I predict a huge regression from him this season.

Rebecca's picture

Oh, and what about little ol’ Don Barclay? LOL

Houndog's picture

Highsmith leaves without an interview to go somewhere "he'll be trusted"
McKenzie turning down an interview despite Gruden coming back (to an almost blank check and lots of power),
TT is still hiding in some closet with a BIG title,
rumors we could lose the entire Personnel Dept,
and now McPuffy making a power play?
KInda' looks like Murphy's got the entire organization upside down! He claims to have been the guy "That made the decision", yet it appears he can't make a decision without outside influence to insure he covers his a$$. Maybe he flipped his inner-tube at his theme park hill and banged his head.
This sucks, even Cleveland looks more organized at this point.
Maybe Murphy should ask Jerry Jones how things have gone since his "Football Guy" left the organization.

Packer_Pete's picture

It is a very bad idea to have the head coach also have a great influence on who to draft. this is not about one person or one person's vision of where the team should go. And with all due respect, McCarthy didn't even seem to know how to use Brett Hundley to his strengths. and that was a guy he saw for 3 years in practice. Now imagine McC could determine who to draft. Guys he might see a little film of....

As you've seen from my posts lately, I'm all for showing Mike McCarthy the door. So if he leaves he leaves. I am sure there are qualified HC candidates out there, and working with one of the best QBs in the history of the game and still have a couple years ahead with #12 should be incentive enough.

Houndog's picture

Pete,
Did I miss something?
I didn't see anything in the article saying he'd have more influence in the draft, free agency was mentioned.
It should be part of the coach's job to know where the weak points are and your mention of Hundley speaks volumes. But it should also be the coach's prerogative to suggest, request, and even fight for 'that guy' to fill a hole in free agency!
TT hasn't looked seriously at OLB, or a thump-er ILB in forever, nor has he filled a multitude of spots created by injuries, and he's let too many (now) pro-bowlers walk!
I'm far from a McCarthy advocate, but I can also understand his frustration, a frustration that appears to be shared by the the soon to be EMPTY Personnel Dept!

Nick Perry's picture

He's hoping Desmond Bishop gets healthy and he can sign him for the Vet Minimum.

bassman's picture

Exactly what are Hundleys strengths? Walking and chewing gum at the same time might be the only ones I have seen him do.

Rossonero's picture

While I understand a GM and head coach should get along, McCarthy getting along with the GM should only be ONE criteria to the hiring decision, not THE criteria.

McCarthy needs to adapt and put his stubborn ego aside no matter who gets hired. If he is going to be difficult, then it is indeed time to let him go and turn over a new leaf.

The question then is, who would be the head coaching candidates?

Turophile's picture

Mike Sherman was dead against having a GM brought onboard (he was joint HC/GM before that, and had not made a good job of his joint role) . He was so furious at the decision, he wouldn't talk to TT. After a 4-12 season he was canned. I'm guessing it was at least in part because the two could not work together.

The interesting part of that scenario, is that his feelings must have been obvious to anyone BEFORE the hiring, but Ted was still hired. As Rossonero said, if the head coach doesn't like an incoming GM, it is a negative, but it isn't the only criteria for hiring.

Just as a footnote. There is lots of talk about McCarthy not wanting Russ Ball as GM. This is not proven, in my mind. I think it is mostly speculation, based on not very much. Remember the idea that 'booting TT upstairs' was said to have come from the board. Murphy dealt with that, making a convincing denial of there being any truth in it. At this time of turmoil, rumours abound. Some may be true, some not, it's best not to take them as gospel, without more confirmation.

Coldworld's picture

If I were a head coach who wanted to win I sure as heck wouldn’t shut up if I thought I was in danger of having a GM appointed above me who was opposed to giving me the players I believed I need.

Look at this another way, people have been bemoaning the playoffs equal a win approach. If MM believes what we hope he should, that a Super Bowl is the target, we should be happy that he has done something I don’t recall hearing he has done before: laying down what he feels is necessary to give us a chance.

That does not mean that I am calling for MM to be GM in name or practice. I note he recently stated that he thought combining those rolls is a mistake, but that is very different from his position per the rumor.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

Just give Rodgers the titles of Head of Football Operations.

I don't blame McKenzie at all.
Wisconsin weather or Vegas? Hmmm....

Maybe we can get Belichick now that there seem to be problems in NE. If he got to 7 Super Bowls with a 5th rd stiff like Brady, imagine what he could do with the real GOAT.

Houndog's picture

I think there's more to this than weather for McKenzie, he was in GB for a long time, and I won't be surprised to see him move on from the Raiders.
I doubt Belichick would want anything to do with Murphy's mess, and as for the rift, I'll believe this when I see it for real.
And oh yeah, that guy Brady, he was a 6th round pick, and likely the best "stiff' you'll ever see!

Vrog's picture

Nobody seems to enjoy your sense of humour Eddie but you made me laugh

WKUPackFan's picture

With all due respect, the entire premise of this article rests on McGinn' s report. Practically everyone here recognizes that McGinn is bitter man, and that his sole goal is stir up controversy regarding the Packers (and gain clicks for whatever goofy website McGinn owns).

Anything coming from McGinn should be taken with a mountain of salt.

fastmoving's picture

You are so right, WKU.
Sometimes I miss the times as not every looser has a platform for his conspiracy theories.
The PACK cant do it right for some of the guys here, no matter what they do.
McGinn is a negative old man who always just focus on the bad 15 prozent of something, just like a lot of the smart guys here.
Must be a pretty sad life for those people.

dobber's picture

"Sometimes I miss the times as not every looser has a platform for his conspiracy theories."

We are a society of people who embrace conspiracy theories and would rather believe them over data and fact. Somehow we believe that the portrayal of these unsupportive theories is brave or admirable. It's a runaway train that we can't seem to get off of.

That said, I think McGinn does more than just post fantasies, but you're right: he's playing to the crowd who prefers to see the glass as half-empty.

Coldworld's picture

Everything has to be taken with not a pinch but a barrel load of salt right now, but aren’t we all discussing the best we have: rumors and a desire not to repeat the last 5 years? If not, what is there to say until they announce a hire?

marpag1's picture

Worse, it's a Bob McGinn article as viewed through the scuffed up lenses of broken and taped together nerd glasses.

Finwiz's picture

If McGinn's a "bitter old man", then I guess that makes you a "bitter young man"?

The guy wouldn't just say things without sourcing.

WKUPackFan's picture

Of course McGinn would say things without sourcing. There is no one to hold him accountable.

At 57 I'm very happy to be a young man.

dobber's picture

HEY, YOU YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPER!!! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

JohnnyLogan's picture

What makes anyone think Ball was responsible for releasing players like Lang, Sitton, Hyde and Heyward? It's hard for me to imagine that McCarthy and TT would aver to him on such critical personnel decisions. Same goes for the decision not to sign FA. Does anyone believe that TT wanted someone and Ball said no, he's too expensive? This whole argument that he's TT's guy makes no sense. TT ran the draft and TT decided on a system of draft and develop, not Ball.

Mac's dislike of Ball likely has more to do with the fact that Ball worked more closely with TT on an everyday basis than Mac did and he's taking his frustration at the lack of filling holes out on both of them.

Did Mac want to resign Hyde, Heyward and Peppers and Ball refused? I have very little faith in Mac's player evaluation skills after his defense of Hundley.

As many have said Ball isn't just an accountant he's a football guy. I hope he rightly sees that Mac's refusal to rid himself Capers has been a fatal error and that his offensive schemes are overly dependent on having the greatest QB of all time.

I hope Ball gets the job and that his first act is to fire Mac. But I also hope TT doesn't become his consigliore. The TT/Mac era must be over.

fthisJack's picture

the Ball era must never start! hire a GM not a TT buddy and bean counter!!!!

Coldworld's picture

Ball was TT’s right hand man. While I blame Capers for not bringing out their talent, it seems clear that Ball increasingly had a strong input if not more in such decisions over the last couple of years when these players were released.

This from someone who does not object to the release of Lang and thinks the Sitton move may have been the lesser evil to keeping him (although there is an argument that mishandling by the FO crated that dilemma).

Ball is a short term strength and conditioning guy who worked in football thereafter as a been counter and has only in the last couple of years been inserting himself in personnel and assessment issues per pro Ball reports. I don’t see that as a football man, I see that as a physical ed guy who became a darn good bean counter.

It is not impossible that he could be a good GM, but as others have pointed out most people with such a background have not, and all had an owner to balance things out. We have the BOD and President and that means little to no scrutiny or interference if you look at the last 50 years or so.

dobber's picture

"It is not impossible that he could be a good GM, but as others have pointed out most people with such a background have not,"

A recent report (I wish I still had the link) said that at least 4 of this years playoff teams have GMs who rose through the ranks in avenues other than scouting. How that number compares to the overall number of GMs in recent years, I don't know. But we're in an era now where scouting information is more accessible than ever. I can see getting by with a GM who isn't a scout so long as they're good at listening to their sources and synthesizing results from information.

Turophile's picture

(JohnnyLogan) You get a like from me just because of good use of 'consigliore'.........

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

It just isn't "increasingly clear" that Ball had more input recently into anything. That is just made up. What seems clear is that things are about as clear as mud.

fthisJack's picture

this is the best thing i've read about McCarthy in a long time. i think he's right! if they hire Ball , a numbers guy with no scouting experience as GM, then what you have is TT pulling the strings behind the scenes in this draft!
i said yesterday, they need an actual evaluator of talent and my choice would be Wolf although i wouldn't be too upset with Gutekunst.
if they hire Ball, you know that the organization is not committed to winning. if it happens then Murphy is ultimately responsible. he should have cut ties with TT completely or stand up to him now and say....no Russ Ball as GM.

Coldworld's picture

Well put

fthisJack's picture

the more i see this sh!t show unfolding the more i think Murphy should have canned EVERYONE! name HIS GM. have him pick the head coach and have the head coach build his staff. clean and simple with no internal BS and no ties to old buddies or tendencies!

Houndog's picture

Agreed, but I don't believe for one second that Murphy has the balls!
The EC should have fired Murphy FIRST for letting it get this far!

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Almost right. Murphy should have just hired his GM, and then let the new GM hire and fire those still in place as he sees fit. And MM should not have been allowed to fire or hire anyone until the GM is in place.

Tundraboy's picture

Precisely.

Dean Ticks's picture

The more I read about this situation, the less I want Ball . He's got ZERO scout experience. Get a true evaluator and let someone else be the Andrew Brandt type of person to crunch numbers. If this turns into a headlong rush to sign Ball, this could be a catastrophic period for the team.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Ball is just a finance guy.

fthisJack's picture

have the GM pick the HC.

Coldworld's picture

I look at the thumbs downs to anti Ball posts. I see some posts that clearly see MM as the problem not the FO. I disagree, and more so than I might have a few weeks ago, but I see the point of view.

What I have not seen anywhere is a clear statement by someone laying out why they believe Ball himself and on his own merits is the right person to lead the Packers to new super bowls. What is the positive argument for appointing Ball?

Packer Fan's picture

Wow, is this report really needed. And how good is McGinn's info? Most of us have got what we wanted. TT and DC gone. There is a lot of shuffling going on. Trying to read more into it and attempt to participate in the intrigue doesn't get us anywhere. Just wait a week or so.

Coldworld's picture

I think some fear (including me) that Ball would be a younger and perhaps more cautious TT. That would not be what “most of us wanted.”

Bearmeat's picture

No it would not. I don't want someone who learned at the knee of TT how to run a team running my team. TT's approach only works if you knock it out of the park with the draft each and every year with multiple picks. That's really hard to do.

Why not augment the team with free agency and trades? The finances for all but the first couple days of FA in March are not a death knell to the cap anymore.

Give me an agressive GM who gets top level players via the draft, augments with FA, and isn't afraid to make a move in-season!

dobber's picture

"I don't want someone who learned at the knee of TT how to run a team running my team."

Then you need to go outside the current organization to find your GM. Gutekunst and Wolf have worked for TT for the majority of their administrative careers, and Ball is apparently so closely linked to TT by sources that he's become damaged goods.

Are we so unsure that this post by McGinn is his playing Putin to the Packers selection process and getting his last jabs at TT? More conspiracy theories, I know, but in the end I don't give a rip what McGinn has to say about this and would rather see how the next week pans out (because I think this will be done before the week is out) before I become too critical or laudatory of anyone.

Bearmeat's picture

I'd be perfectly fine with that Dobber. Although I'd approve more of Wolf than Gutekunst and certainly more than Ball. Yes, they are all unproven. But Wolf's dad was agressive and I refuse to believe that Wolf would listen more to the TT training than he would to the man who raised him.

Remember, we've been hearing rumors for years how unhappy Mike and some of the FO people were with Ted's inactivity outside of the draft. I really think it makes sense that this is boiling down to a Ted/Russ/Mark vs Mike/Elliot thing.

Why wouldn't McKenzie want a shot at running the Packers when he's just had his authority usurped by Jon Gruden? Why wouldn't Highsmith even want to interview and why would he leave a parting shot in public like he did?

Something is rotten in Mudville. And it's name is Ted! UGH.

Nick Perry's picture

"Then you need to go outside the current organization to find your GM. Gutekunst and Wolf have worked for TT for the majority of their administrative careers"

Schneider, Dorsey, and McKenzie all worked for Thompson for a long time as well yet don't go about their duties anything like Thompson does IMO.

fthisJack's picture

and when you talk about Wolf learning under TT that really means nothing. i believe he would bring his own philosophy on team building to the table. and if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, we might have a Wolf II who dives into FA to get someone who may be a game changer, makes trades that improve the team, and just be a good talent evaluator like his dad.

dobber's picture

THANK YOU!!!

Then if they hire Ball, let Ball be Ball! For some reason we've decided to give Wolf and Gutekunst a pass. But for crying out loud, let something happen first.

Since '61's picture

Packers fan - good post. As long as the Packers play this close to the vest, which they should, the more the rumors will fly. When people [fans) are not told a story, they make up their own. In this case McGinn and others will maximize the click bait. Thanks, Since '61

Hematite's picture

Thompson is not gone!
He's still in Green Bay hiding behind the curtains like the Wizard of Oz.
He should have been put on the 1st bus out of Green Bay.

Since '61's picture

The longer the process takes, the more that the rumors will fly. I hope it all means that the Packers are taking their time in evaluating and interviewing candidates. Remember that this is a bye week for the top four seeded teams in the league.

As for MMs alleged power play, it probably means that he has been asked or on his own has provided input on his criteria for a new GM. As usual, the media with nothing else to report on has extended the rumors into an all out crisis at 1265. This will sell papers and increase clicks among Packers fans everywhere. As for MM he doesn't want the GM position for himself, he just wants someone he can work with on fielding a winning team for the Packers. If Russ Ball or any internal candidate were going to be the new GM they would be named by now, unless the league requires the Packers to interview external candidates, hence the reason to utilize an executive search firm.

Due diligence, properly done on both people and organizations takes time. I've done plenty of both over the years. If that is what the Packers are doing they need to get it right. BTW, rumors are like the preseason games, they mean nothing. RELAX. Thanks, Since '61

Bure9620's picture

Since '61, I don't necessarily agree Ball or other internal candidates would have been named by now. Doug Whaley is interviewing today to satisfy the Rooney rule and also I'm not sure the Schneider drama is over. I think they want to make Seattle squirm a bit. Though I have qualms with Murphy, l think he would bring the fact that total roster control in GB would be a promotion to Gooddell. If not, he 's spineless.

dobber's picture

Seattle denied the Packers permission to talk to Schneider. Unless the Packers get really desperate, you can drive a stake in this one.

dobber's picture

You're my hero, '61...

"he just wants someone he can work with on fielding a winning team for the Packers."

I'll go a step further and say that MM knows that his success, continued employment, and legacy are on the line. I'd hope the only one he really cares about is the first (continued success), but a GM that he doesn't trust and who he perceives that he can't count on to get him players is someone he wouldn't support. Does this really fit with the current situation? Well, he's publicly talked about wanting better talent. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But he hasn't done anything openly to support or undermine any of the current candidates.

Since '61's picture

Thanks Dobber, I’m proud to be your hero. You are correct, MM is definitely concerned about his legacy and he knows his legacy is dependent on AR and that the window is closing.

He just needs an GM that will aggressively work to provide him with some better players on the roster besides AR alone. A good draft and a few solid FAs could get MM and the Packers back to the SB in 2018 if AR stays healthy. Thanks, Since ‘61

Coldworld's picture

I think that this is great post dobber

Bear's picture

61, always appreciate your viewpoint. Especially after you read so much childish the “sky is falling “ attitudes.

Since '61's picture

Thanks Bear. This too shall pass. Since ‘61

Brian's picture

Great post, good to read a clear and logical post. MM knows the window is closing and wants a successful working relationship.

BTW, has anyone heard if the Ravens and Eric DeCosta have agreed to an interview?

MarkinMadison's picture

I get that change is hard, but this has to be the most poorly managed change by a Wisconsin sports team in my lifetime. Succession plan? If this is what having a plan looks like, I'd hate to see what the Packers look like without a plan. A money guy as GM? Formula for disaster. Just because you know how to negotiate doesn't mean you should be deciding who to negotiate with or what the priorities should be. And I negotiate for a living. Bringing Russ Ball on over objections from MM and AR is NOTHING like bringing TT in to fill the GM role for Sherman. Mackenzie choosing not to even interview (which, if nothing else, he could have used as leverage to get a salary increase out of Oakland) is a big tell. The GM transition should have happened a month ago. Green Bay is in chaos. It will be surprising if this thing ends well.

Ustabeayooper's picture

One. Is truly amazed at the rampant desire by posters on this site to blow up the entire front office and coaching staff based on one losing season in the last nine years. You would think that our team was the Cleveland Browns. Be careful of what you wish for. I do not subscribe to the idea that Ball is a TT clone and just a "bean counter". We really don't know what abilities he has other than the financial acumen that he has shown over the last decade. The idea that he should be disqualified because of his association with TT is ludicrous. MM was given an one year extension because you don't want a lame duck coach when you name a new GM. I don't want a completely new front office and coaching staff. Change is good, too much change is a recipe for disaster. I've watched pro football for over 60 years and I've seen what happens when teams "start over". Usually it isn't pretty. The Raiders may find this out very quickly.

Razer's picture

You know you are going to get murdered for rational speaking. The mob is yelling and they aren't about to let facts get in the way. I get it that people have favorites and want their man. But to take as gospel the horseshit that is being cited as fact is truly amazing. I heard MM talk about a partnership and working relationship with the next GM or the thing doesn't work. True enough. McGinn, Cory and many of the posters have interpreted this as I can't work with Russ Ball. Russ Ball taking the job somehow becomes a head that will speak the words of the evil lord Ted Thompson. And apparently Aaron Rodgers doesn't like Russ Ball.

It doesn't matter who you like for the job. We have a lot of good choices. Using falsities, misrepresentations and exaggeration to advance your horse shouldn't be the practice of any Packer fan

dobber's picture

<<genuflects>>

fastmoving's picture

Razer its always nice to have a couple of rational people left I can relate to........
just like dobber, 61 for instance and others............
Helps to keep the faith in people........

GO PACK GO

Spock's picture

Razer and Usta... and Since '61 and Dobber. Voices of reason crying out in a pit of fan frenzy over rumors and innuendo! At the end of the season lots of people were calling for firing Capers (I was on that one, LOL), TT and maybe MM. Now the "sky is falling" when two of those have happened!!! To quote a certain well known quarterback, "R-E-L-A-X". There's nothing here we fans can control anyways and we will know soon how this all shakes out soon. Personally, I take anything Bob McGinn writes with LOTS of skepticism when it's about the Packers and I've stated in the past that Cory is IMHO the "click bait" guy on CHTV (nothing wrong with that, I just prefer facts). You can't say this has been a boring off-season so far. :)

fthisJack's picture

i'm saying he should be disqualified cause he has never been a scout or evaluator of football players. why put a guy in as Gm that will rely totally on his scouts to make recommendations on who to draft and expect him to make a wise decision. put a guy in there that has experience scouting....a lot of years! keep Ball where he is....thats his niche not GM.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Usta had me until he wrote that giving MM an extension so he won't be a lame duck was a good idea. MM has a prove it year in 2018 either way. Would not surprise me if some of the stronger assistant coaches bail.

Otherwise, I could live with Ball, Wolf, Gutekunst. I could live without MM has our head coach as well.

4thand1's picture

We have a distinct advantage of not having a single owner. If we had a Jerry Jones it would suck big time. The reason it stayed the same for so long was because we won, simple. We all know it's because we have a great QB, but the bottom line is we kept winning. Look at some of the teams that are in this year, they and their fans act like they won the frickin lottery. One of my co workers who is a Lion fan says, my bucket list is to see the Lions win a playoff game. The cheap ball comes in because of the success over the long haul and avoiding cap hell. We have missed on draft picks only because of the success and picking at the bottom of each round. The organization knows the window is closing with AR and knows it needed to do something different. Almost every team in the playoffs are in because of QB play. Some are in with great defenses that are built with good drafts after sucking for years. We should have a good draft and some FA signings that will make an immediate impact. All because we sucked this year, but this will turn around with the right moves, now lets make them. We all know we weren't going to win it all with this current team, and here's to getting over the hump.

Coldworld's picture

I absolutely agree on this, except perhaps in this particular situation. Owners typically want success for personal and financial reasons. However, in the case of the Packers conceivably the comfort of the incumbents may win out over the need to secure Super Bowls. This would be success is consistent post seasons concept.

That could work in an ownerless team and would be respected around the league giving status to those responsible, but it is far from what most of us are hoping for. By that measure, TT should be a first ballot hall of famer.

Of course if any of us were Cowboy or Redskins fans, what we have had may seem like nivarna. For me it is a function of Rodgers. Because we have him, just making the playoffs is not an acceptable benchmark for adequate performance. Does Mark Murphy agree? That is the heart of the current questions.

Lphill's picture

Whoever takes over for TT just has to say to themselves , I have Aaron Rodgers all I have to do is improve the defense and protect him , the rest Aaron will take care of.

GVPacker's picture

Not to long ago I believe Jason Perone wrote an article on Ted Thompson health. Was it something to do with possible effects of multiple concussions he suffered as a player?

rdent's picture

Amazing, what began as a firing of Dom Capers has now evolved into the release of 4 more assistant coaches plus one more leaving for a college gig and long time front office man Alonzo Highsmith hightailing it to Cleveland. It has suddenly become apparent that this organization has reached the point where the word dysfunctional can hardly describe it. I now have to question how all of this can turn out good. McKenzie took one look at that job and flat out said no thanks. I could go on at length here but to make a long story short if Russ Ball is hired as GM they will lose Wolf, Gutenkust or both and it has been reported neither MM or AR want Ball as GM.Even if replacements are hired, I still get the feeling it will leave TT as Sr. Advisor still calling the shots in the draft. If Ball is hired it will be a case of the more things change the more they stay the same at 1265.

Razer's picture

Truly amazing. Did you ever consider that:

Reggie McKenzie likes what he is accomplishing in Oakland or wants Gruden and his allstar staff. He might also not want to fly to frigid Green Bay to satisfy the Rooney Rule.

Alzono Highsmith is a scout who might want to work for John Dorsey and build something new in Cleveland.

How do you know Wolf and Gutekunst will leave if Russ Ball gets the job? Go where? They hate Russ Ball?

And of course - Russ Ball takes on the role and inexplicably doesn't do what he wants but instead does what the old GM wants to do.

I guess I missed all those facts that these assumptions are rooted in.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

The problem is Ball has an even tighter sphincter than Ted.

rdent's picture

It more than likely won't matter who Murphy hires for GM, someone else will leave the organization, either way I beleive Ball will stay on.

dobber's picture

We...don't...know...this.

PERIOD.

rdent's picture

Pure speculation and nothing more. The only fact we have at this point is TT is still there hanging over the the head of whoever will take the Packers GM position.

Razer's picture

Sorry rdent - I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I was giving viable and considered options to the facts that you laid out. If my tone is disbelief and impatience, it is only because people are disparaging good candidates and Packer front office on the basis of wild assumption. That being said, I will be the asshole that stands up for some truth.

fthisJack's picture

you can't handle the truth!

rdent's picture

This could be a long process and it should be. Looks like GB has the only GM job open the NFL, couldn't find a better time to take their time to get it right.

fastmoving's picture

2 weeks ago you called the Packers dysfunctional because they did not fire anyone.......

glad your stay with all your wisdom behind our pc. Im sure your were never in charge of anything in your whoole life........

nostradanus's picture

HOUSE OF CARDS!!
Rodgers is the reason Thompson-McCarthy-Capers hung around as long as they have and now with Murphy's weak leadership this whole thing could fall like a house of cards!
*Thompson hasn't seemed to be all there upstairs for years, it was fully apparent in his rare, slow and odd press conferences. He should not be allowed to lurk in the dark shadows of 1265 Lombardi, they will not attract a top GM that way.
*McCarthy has gotten to big around the middle and his head, he shouldn't be involved in the GM decision
*Capers should have been gone 5 years ago, again complacency due to Rodgers putting the team on his back.
*Rodgers however should not have input on the new GM either, just concentrate on Danika Patrick that's what I would do, lucky dog.
*The Packers should have been prepared for this and should have been more pro-active but Murphy was too focused on the real-estate development end of things while Rodgers was pulling wins out of his "Azz".
SOLUTION: Hire a real GM, Fire McCarthy, shuffle Thompson off to a retirement community, trade Rodgers now for a shipload of draft picks. RE-BUILD NOW!

Handsback's picture

I agree with others....this is a fake news report.
I have no idea who the next GM will be and outside speculation is just that outside the organization and pure speculation.

Now this change has been in the works for some time. The timelines tend to point to this GM replacement for at least 8 months. My speculation is that Murphy didn't want Dorsey and Zo left because Cleveland would give him a better opportunity to advance than Green Bay.

Who knows what will happen, but my money is on MM being the HC for some time.

dobber's picture

I agree: Highsmith left because he saw the writing on the wall that he was at least #4 in the horse race for GM in GB (which doesn't even begin to look at external candidates), and took a deal that would allow him a faster track to being a GM.

Razer's picture

I agree as well. Maybe Highsmith has seen the pressure, time and hate that these GM's endure and just wanted a place to practice his scouting with a guy he can work with and tons of picks.

Spock's picture

Handsback, I believe you are correct and this "plan" (even if some don't believe that) has been in place for a while. Nagler on one of his Facebook chats had someone asking him at the time that Adams and Linsley were signed if Ted was doing this to "save his job". Nagler said something I thought was interesting, something to the effect that perhaps TT was "setting the table" for the next GM leaving that person with 11 draft picks and valuable players whose extensions would have less cap hit by getting their deals done in 2017. Since we later learned that MM had been quietly extended to prevent him being a lame duck coach this makes a lot of sense to me.

nostradanus's picture

Great executives make hard, bold and tough decisions.
So far, this looks like a poorly orchestrated patch job by Murphy while giving McCarthy too much leeway. We have already seen what a great coach he is without Rodgers at the helm, while the Vikings lost their QB and other key players and they look like the class of the division for years to come. Fake news probably yes, but a plan should have been in place and so far this looks ugly. Could be a long cold winter

egbertsouse's picture

Fake news. The definition of fake news is “any facts we we do not like, disagree with, or do not want to hear.” Yeah, every reporter who reports anything negative about the Packers is a bitter, twisted old man and all the reporters pumping sunshine up everyone’s butt are fine examples of sports journalism. You can exclude McGinn and read the reports coming out of GB and it still looks like this GM search has turned into a cluster f**k. All the different factions seem to be leaking tidbits trying to push their agendas. Unless ALL the reporters are bitter old men who hate the Packers and are making everything up.

Coldworld's picture

You raise a good point in noting that there appears to be a lot of off the record lobbying by interested parties unless all of the commentators are simply making everything up.

The only conclusion I draw from that is that this is viewed as a high stakes process and that there is some acrimony between one or more factions. Not good portents for the future however it turns out, if true.

Razer's picture

'''Fake news. The definition of fake news is “any facts we we do not like, disagree with, or do not want to hear.”"

I would think that fake news is defined by lack of facts or based on lies. What you are describing is 'denial'.

fastmoving's picture

fake news are fake news..................if you can not understand such simple things how can you act like a smart guy

but like I said you confused if you can see the difference between bad news and fake news.

that is one of your problems....just ask the old moron who invented fake news 2 years ago.

fthisJack's picture

fast....that made me laugh...

Doug Niemczynski's picture

This is NOT fake news. Mcarthys job is in the libe. He stated we needed talent and not this russ ball conservative B .S. with finance.

You know your job goes both ways. Get fired or quit. MM will have no problem getting another job. Good job Mike Mcarthy I am backing you on this one!!

dobber's picture

He's a coach not named Belichick, Tomlin, or Lewis. His job is always on the libe.

Coldworld's picture

MM would walk into a job with most of the clubs in the league, whether you or I love him or not.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Why dont we hire Dom Capers as head coach?
Since you dont like mike.

Dom capers job could be in the libe again. Lol

dobber's picture

I can appreciate someone who can laugh at themselves!

Cheers, friend!

Doug Niemczynski's picture

Why dont we hire Dom Capers as head coach?
Since you dont like mike.

Dom capers job could be in the libe again. Lol

Qoojo's picture

Bob McGinn uses sock puppets aka anonymous sources to say basically anything he wants. Then if Bob McGinn gets something right, then Bob McGinn let's everyone know.

As far as MM threatening to quit, I wouldn't be concerned. His record without a HoF qb running his offense speaks for itself. Don't forget SF with Smith as QB. He fired the QB coach citing Hundley should have been better prepared. Yet Hundley had 3 years of MM's QB school, and if he knew Hunley was ill-prepared, why didn't he make effective changes during the season to help that? He fired the OC, yet he calls all the plays. Remember when he gave up play calling, then took it back with little change in offensive performance? Still had the same problems on offense.

Rodgers makes this offense work, even with MM's mediocre play calling, which is why the run sometimes gets abandoned. Rodgers prefers to run passing plays at times. MM threatening to quit is about as empty of a threat as I can imagine.

McKenzie declining and Highsmith leaving town probably has more to do with them not wanting to fulfill the Rooney quota for a job that has already been filled internally. Packers just cannot announce it yet due to Rooney rule.

dobber's picture

"Bob McGinn uses sock puppets aka anonymous sources to say basically anything he wants. Then if Bob McGinn gets something right, then Bob McGinn let's everyone know."

Not much different from many of us here... ;)

My sock puppet is named Bobo.

Qoojo's picture

Mine is named Burt, after Burt from the Soap sitcom of the 70s. He can go invisible too.

Coldworld's picture

Mine is called Ball. He has been invisible for years but gets involved in everything

dobber's picture

SIX DAYS! It's been SIX DAYS since all this started to unfold! What did we legitimately expect at this point?

I think many WANTED TT to step aside and WANTED someone to be named as successor immediately. Know what? There's exactly ONE other team looking for a GM right now (Houston, since the Giants filled their post earlier)...and supposedly they've found their guy already. And it's not Gutekunst. That means that no matter who Murphy hires, it's likely that Wolf, Gutekunst, and Ball--assuming they don't get the Packers gig and an external guy doesn't clean house--are unlikely to go anywhere unless they want to take a major step backward. They're better served to stick around, make things work in GB, and be available next year.

(note that Seattle denied the Packers permission to talk to John Schneider...)
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/01/seahawks-deny-packers-permissi...

It's a buyer's market for GMs right now, and since coordinators and position coaches aren't going to start falling until teams start hiring HCs, Murphy shouldn't feel too terribly rushed. Find the best guy. Period.

Razer's picture

Dobber you need more urgency in your voice. We are one step away from...getting the right guy.

Coldworld's picture

Speed is over rated. This must be got right. Speed is often a cover for a predestined outcome. As to a buyers market, without some indication to the contrary, lateral employed GM transfers are very rare. If Schneider has signaled an interest then take the time to challenge. If our internal candidates plus Ted can’t cope in the interim we have a much bigger problem.

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

"Oh, and Ball doesn’t have any scouting experience, which would seemingly make what looks to be a huge change into more of the same."

Spot on. If Ball gets the GM job, you can forget even sniffing the SB in Rodgers remaining years. It will simply be more of the same. Well under the cap, and well out of contention.

Razer's picture

Almost like Ted never left the building, eh. Did McGinn talk to you about this?

Razer's picture

This website is getting its traffic and we are scurrying about like children yelling at each other. Cory Jennerjohn has done his job to incite the fracas. It is all about hearsay and irresponsibly presented as the state of affairs on Lombardi Ave.

I can see an organization doing its due diligence in finding the next best GM. The chaos that people cite is the nonsense being put forth in these articles. None of us or these reporters know any of this ass facts about who like who and who is leaving if someone gets the job. The Packers will pick the best man - not Ted's puppet. McCarthy will get a guy who will get him players and will try to make it work - otherwise MM will be gone. It is how it works regardless of what you imagine about MacKenzie, Highsmith or the powerplay that surely exists in someone's head.

Coldworld's picture

We rarely have any real facts on any subject matter to work with since we are not privy to game plans, assignments, non public behavior and so on and so forth. All we have is opinion and our own perceptions.

What is different here?

Razer's picture

At least when we watch the game we can see the result and interpret according to our philosophy. People are talking here about things that they can only imagine. What we can see is the Packers searching and interviewing candidates nothing more. People are applying the logic that if Russ Ball gets the job he is TT's mouth. Why? Because he worked in the front office that Ted ran. Given that logic, Wolf, Gutekunst, Highsmith, etc. will all do the bidding of TT if they got the job. Of course this logic only applies to Russ Ball because somehow he is the only one who would do exactly as his former boss would do?

The biases which have no facts behind them that run down good people is what bothers me. It discourages me that most can't acknowledge that the Packers are doing exactly what they need to do and there are good people in the mix.

Spock's picture

Razer, I know it was a typo but I still laughed at the truth in this: "know any of this ass facts". I think these are the type of "facts" a lot of commenters are finding and using, LOL.

Flow49's picture

I’m not up to speed on the packers front office like some on this site, but placing the right hand man of the guy who many claim has hamstrung the Packers seems asinine to me. Personally I’d rather go all in on the change and not just change the name of the problem. With my limited information Ball seems like a patch work job and TT lite.

4thand1's picture

Whom ever the Packers next GM is, He/She will have to have immediate success. Wouldn't it be something if the Packers hired a woman?

Coldworld's picture

Yes, if she were the candidate most likely to give Rogers more real shots to bring back more Lombardi Trophies. That must be the only valid criteria at this point.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

We don't want a woman.

Samson's picture

One initial comment followed by 100 reply comments. -- A first maybe.

It's been less than a week since the last game of the season (seems a lot longer). --- Writers, fans & so called experts who just may have some inside info are still just speculating. -- No way anyone else (on the outside) can know what will come down ultimately.

I'm more than willing to wait until the dust clears.

Bearmeat's picture

There's some sort of bug on this thread. I tried to start my own topic above and it showed up as a reply twice.

Bearmeat's picture

It’s clear as day that some serious political shenanigans have come home to roost at 1265 Lombardi. In one corner is Murphy/Thompson/Ball and possibly Gutekunst. In the other is Wolf/McCarthy and Rodgers. The winner gets the GM chair. The loser, a 1 way ticket out of town. And right now, it looks like Russ is going to be the winner. McKenzie, despite just being undermined, didn’t want to interview. Highsmith didn’t want to interview and took some parting public shots on his way out of town. Schneider was barred from interviewing. This is the man who could have possibly saved the impending catastrophe. Austin was barred from interviewing for DC. Bennett left town. We officially have the slowest WRs in the league. So replacing Getsy, we now have the worst offensive coordinator for the 49ers since before the Walsh days. We have interviewed 3 internal DC candidates - none of whom have acquitted themselves well in the past as a position coach.

I’m seriously starting to think that ARod may refuse to sign a new contract the second that Mike leaves – or is fired. Vikings fans wet dreams are coming true.

Not good.

rdent's picture

According to reports AR is in MM corner on Russ Ball.

Bearmeat's picture

Double post

Coldworld's picture

I still haven’t seen anyone give a positive argument for why they believe Russ Ball is the candidate who should be our next GM.

I see people saying he shouldn’t be ruled out despite never having coached a football skill position or scouted officially, but I don’t see any “I think he is the best candidate because”...

Bearmeat's picture

I think he could be good in the way that you never know if anyone will succeed with a promotion. The Peter Principle at work. (Google it if you haven't heard of it).

But with the smoke of politics having been seen for years around TT and the rest of his FO, as well as MM having said what he did..... I am not inclined to believe that RB would be a good GM.

That said, it is possible that the Packers could make a strong argument with the NFL about John Schneider. He does not have full personnel authority as GM in Seattle. Carrol must approve of everything. So it's not a done deal that SEA could insiste on compensation.

Schneider has developed good rosters in Seattle. I'm officially on his train. WOOHOO

Coldworld's picture

All fair points. I have never said Ball will inevitably not be a good GM. I just believed he would be a huge risk, one we have no business or need to take in Rogers’ later years.

Coldworld's picture

Well, of course it is just another article, but Packerswire is reporting that Schneider is the choice of MM and the bulk of the scouting and football staff.

The same article also states that Schneider has signaled his interest.

If that is true, and of course without direct confirmation from Schneider, MM and co we can’t prove it, the ball is in Murphy’s court to challenge the block imposed by Seattle.

I would take Schneider over any of the internal candidates given where Rogers is in his career, even at the cost of the trade required to get him.

Bearmeat's picture

They shouldn't have to do that. Pete the Cheat runs Seattle's whole program and Schneider is guy 1A. Everyone knows it.

Being GM in GB would be a promotion. Contest the block Murphy!

rdent's picture

As Seattle's GM Schneider does not have the final say on the 53. Rules state, an interview for a job that is a promotion cannot be denied. This denial from Seattle could be easily contested.But with TT still in the picture will those parameters now be applied to GB's next GM? Not so according to Murphy, plus I read Murphy is not likely to contest, also still being under contract getting Schneider would cost GB more compensation than they may want to give up.

Bearmeat's picture

Once the new GM is named, TT will have no official power. Just an advisory role - which could easily be revoked by the new GM if he wishes it.

JMO, but the only one who would need TT in an advisory role would be RB. Yet another nail in his coffin I hope.

fthisJack's picture

i really don't see how RB stacks up well against any other candidates....internal or external. something isn't right if he is under serious consideration.

Brian's picture

I wonder if having TT around has left a brown cloud over the GM job as far as McKenzie and Schneider are concerned. Perhaps they feel that they wouldn't be in charge of the whole football operation with TT "advising" Murphy. Also, if the result of hiring Schneider would be a draft choice to Seattle, what are the chances that TT would agree?????

I'm still waiting to hear if the Ravens' Eric DeCosta will agree to interview.

Finwiz's picture

John Schneider is THE GUY!
He's the one I want, and most football people should want.
Unfortunately it makes too much sense, and seems too logical, so in this day an age of Murphy and TT football operations, it likely has zero chance of actually happening.
Just like when we go into the draft and have a shot at TJ Watt and end up with a 2nd rounder, where we take a guy that has a injured shoulder and can't play for 1/2 a year and another guy with a broken foot.
Par for the course in GB - do whatever makes the least sense in all cases.

Coldworld's picture

We have found our litmus test for mr Murphy perhaps. Challenge or admit to not being serious or afraid of the league politics. GB first in this!

Bearmeat's picture

YESSIR.

Man. I hope we get Schneider.

sonomaca's picture

I think the article hints at bringing in Belichick as head coach and GM. You want a Super Bowl, that’s what you do. McCarthy can whisper in Brady’s ear.

Coldworld's picture

Bellicheck supposedly wants the Giants as coach and GM.

sonomaca's picture

So, he’s available. Murphy should pursue him. Forget a bureaucrat like Ball. That would be the beginning of the dark ages in GB. We all know it.

Coldworld's picture

Ironically, Ball’s skills would be a good compliment to Schneider perhaps?

sonomaca's picture

If Ball is GM, and McCarthy goes, #12 should demand a trade.

Dzehren's picture

Ball was responsible for Davante Adams and linsley extensions recent. He also brought in Ahmad Brooks, Quinton Dial and Jabari Evans all at minimum deals.

Coldworld's picture

Was he? Or was he just responsible for getting the deals done not the decision to do so?

sonomaca's picture

Was Ball responsible for letting Hyde and Hayward go? Peppers? Ball will be a disaster.

Doug Niemczynski's picture

That's because Dom Capers system sucked and now the players are on a different team playing in a different def scheme and now they shine!!!

fthisJack's picture

there is no doubt that Ball is a shrewd money guy. but, he isn't GM material. i would like to see Wolf get his shot. if he is anything like his father, he has no fear! trades, FA signings, the draft....do anything to make the team better even if you have only $1 to roll over to next year!!

sonomaca's picture

Yup. A trade, straight up, McCarthy for Belichick. Perfect.

sonomaca's picture

Can’t announce such a deal till after NE is done. Come on, Murphy, you can do it!

Coldworld's picture

Well, it would satisfy those who hate press conferences full of long repeated platitudes.

Perhaps we could also bring in Greg Williams as DC and really change the ethics of GB.

sonomaca's picture

Belichick is one of the three best coaches of all time, along with Lombardi and Walsh. You don’t want him?

Coldworld's picture

Sonomaca, BB is one of the best certainly. As to wanting him, well that is a devilish question indeed.

It would be hard to turn him down as a coach. Not sure about him as a coach GM-I’m not a fan of that generally.

I just find all the Bellicheck wants to leave hype a little hard to take seriously. Plus if Gruden got 10 years and 100 million, what will Bellicheck command? Maybe he wants the Giants because only a NY team could take on that big a mortgage?

Dzehren's picture

Bill B is not coming to GB.

Coldworld's picture

RD at ESPN also suggesting Packers could challenge on Schneider.

On a different point, reports that Philbin is back as OC. If I recall correctly he was there when our offense as a whole outside Rogers performed most effectively

fthisJack's picture

YES....when Philbin was there...the Packers O was humming. the play calling under him was outstanding. hope he comes back for round 2.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Every packers blog has a story similar to this one. Cory described it as a power play by MM while the others (at least the ones I saw) just reported that MM would leave if Ball became GM, and let the reader infer the power play aspect.

Don't see that Cory did anything out of the way here.

Coldworld's picture

Did anyone criticize Cory? I had not noticed that. He wrote a great conversation starter.

Zebra 3's picture

I would hire Elliot Wolf as GM.
He has climbed the ladder for a long time.
If he doesn't get it some team will scoop him up
within a few months and GB will loose another solid
Management piece.

4zone's picture

What coach of any quality would want to work for Green Bay if they knew the status quo of perpetual talent shortages would continue under new management? What HOF QB would want a contract extension?

Doug Niemczynski's picture

I am glad the packers are looking at all possibilities for a GM and not just promoting within the org.

Golden Retriever's picture

I respectfully disagree with those claiming that Ted Thompson will be pulling the strings of the next GM in Green Bay. Mark Murphy must recognize that TT is in declining health, but also knows that he loves (and lives for?) his job with the Packers. The transitioning of TT to senior scouting advisor (or whatever his title will be) is Murphy’s way of showing him the respect and gratitude he deserves for his many selfless years of work for the organization. To me, it simply demonstrates Murphy’s class and high character. He is treating TT with dignity. What is so wrong with that??

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

This really has been quite a thread. I have read more things asserted as facts that the poster could not possibly know the truth about in quite some time.

* The site still only lets posters reply rather than starting a new comment. I am not replying to anyone directly above, at least not necessarily. My post applies to a substantial percentage of the comments.

WKUPackFan's picture

I'll confess my speculation sin to you Tgr. I have no personal knowledge as to whether McGinn has a vendetta against the Packers organization. The only evidence that I have is my interpretation of his writings over the past several years. Based on those, and McGinn's despicable allegations that TT is suffering from dementia, I'm probably going to continue break my rule regarding not speculating when it comes to McGinn's reports, and the people who blindly believe him.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Well, you're perfectly correct that McGinn has a vendetta against TT and the packers. (hehehe)

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