Cory's Corner: Moment Of Truth For Matt LaFleur

The first three-game losing skid since 2018 should force the fourth-year head coach to get tough with his star quarterback. 

This is the curse when you bend a knee to a player. 

The Packers gave Aaron Rodgers more authority, they gave him a fatter contract and brought back his buddy in wide receiver Randall Cobb. Rodgers waited until the 11th hour to make a decision on his future, which ultimately cost him the best wide receiver he’s ever had. 

Without a top receiving threat, Green Bay general manager Brian Gutekunst assembled a team in a different way. The blueprint to win now is with an athletic defense and owning the time of possession with a dominant running game. 

The Packers only ran the ball 12 times as the Commanders handed Green Bay its third straight loss with a 23-21 win. 

“Whatever we’re doing offensively, it’s not good enough,” said Packers coach Matt LaFleur after Sunday’s debacle.

Now is the time. He has been more of a friend than a coach with the majority of the team, including the star quarterback. And now, he needs to play the bad cop and rein in the 18-year pro. 

This reminds me a lot of Mike Sherman when he couldn’t get through to Brett Favre, who was throwing the ball all over the place. Sherman was fired in 2005 after a 4-12 record despite leading the Packers to the playoffs four straight years. 

I’m not saying LaFleur should be fired. But now is when we figure out just how good of a coach he is. The offense is broken. The Packers were 0-for-6 on third down on Sunday and are a lousy 25th in the league in third down percentage this season by converting just 35 percent. 

We are seven games into this season and the Packers are still lining up in shotgun in short yardage situations and still throwing it 30 yards down the field and hoping for the best — knowing that with this receiving crew, it’s a small percent chance that something good will happen. Rodgers has thrown it at feet and has airmailed it. I didn’t think I would ever say this, but Rodgers is the reason why teams are daring the Packers to throw it. The Packers are eating a $28.5 million cap hit to watch a future first ballot Hall of Famer throw dump offs and check downs.

Many are saying that the Packers should trade Rodgers. What are the Packers going to get back? He’s got an albatross for a deal. If the Packers trade him before June 1, the dead money is still over $125 million. What team is going to want to take that on for a 38-year-old quarterback?

The charade has gone on long enough. It’s time for LaFleur to have an honest conversation with Rodgers. The Packers are 3-4 and amazingly, there is still time for them to make the postseason for the fourth straight year. The NFC is loaded with mediocre teams trying to take baby steps. 

This is the time when Mike Holmgren would bark at Favre with the patented, “No rocket balls please.” I know it’s not in LaFleur’s persona to be confrontational, but in order to save this season, he has to get through to his quarterback. 

If he doesn’t, Rodgers will continue to throw the ball all over the field while LaFleur talks about how the Packers should give the ball to star running back Aaron Jones. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. We’re nearly halfway through the season and nothing much is going to change for an offense that doesn’t trust its running game to carry the load. 

No head coach wants to put the star quarterback in his place, but that’s where LaFleur currently finds himself. If he doesn’t, winning six games may be a stretch. 
 

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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

9 points

Comments (188)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Renllaw's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:20 am

All True.... except that unfortunately thats not our only problem.....

Moment of truth #2 for LaFleur is having the guts to realize he screwed up with the Barry hire. Any warm bodied former NFL D-Coordinator would be an improvement at this time. We have average QB's beating the pants off our zones every week. The passive play calls are contagious, players on D are all hesitating. instead of attacking through tackles they are waiting for the ball carrier to come to them. We need a wholesale attitude change.

16 points
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Fubared's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:35 am

I dont like Barry or Pettine or Capers but to me they all had something in common: a real lack of talent on defense. Your asking these coaches to put together a pass rush with linebackers and safeties.
The Packers never draft defensive ends who are skilled at pass rushing due to not wanting to spend the bucks. Thus, the coaches have to come up with these crazy schemes and just dont make up for power players in power positions.
Throw in several rejects from other teams and poor drafting of Stokes and Amos and viola you got shit for defense.
Our D costs us three playoff games not getting off the field and giving up easy touch downs.

-5 points
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bigstickpattyb89's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:57 pm

Actually that's how a 3-4 defense works. You don't draft pass rushing D Lineman when you have a 3-4, you draft pass rushing linebackers. The D Line you want are big strong bodies that can hold the point of attack and allow the Linebackers to run free. I do agree that pass rushing D-Lineman are a premium, but that is not the defense we have had since Dom Capers changed the Packers from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

3 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:46 pm

They need to show BOTH looks.

0 points
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MemphoMike's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:49 am

Great read! I agree, it's time MLF quit the "buddy" approach with AR. It's all fun and games until your QB starts to check out of your play calls, insist on "simplifying" your scheme bc he doesn't like motion, throws lame duck passes both across and down the field......wow.....how our Offense has dropped so far, so fast is unconscionable. But it's MLF's team and it's time he confronted AR with that "simplified" truth.

That simple truth is that AR needs to run the plays called by MLF. 4th and inches on Sunday.... 12 drops back in shotgun(?) and makes a terrible screen pass attempt to Doubs who drops it (behind the line of scrimmage!). Doubs had no chance to make a play even if he did catch the ball because Watkins blew his blocking assignment and Washington had them covered up. I'm curious if that was a RPO that 12 changed to at the line?? If so, how is is that screen pass play more "simple" than lining up under center, handing the ball to your RB and having your OL push forward a couple of inches? 12 creates this drama and MLF needs to end it.

6 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:46 am

"That simple truth is that AR needs to run the plays called by MLF. 4th and inches on Sunday.... 12 drops back in shotgun(?) and makes a terrible screen pass attempt to Doubs who drops it (behind the line of scrimmage!). Doubs had no chance to make a play even if he did catch the ball because Watkins blew his blocking assignment and Washington had them covered up."

This simply isn't true.

First it was 4th and 1 not inches.
Doubs caught the ball past the 1st down marker. It was a perfect throw and Doubs simply didn't catch it. It hit him in the hands. Doubs has to catch that. No more excuses. I will say that Watkins not blocking caused the incomplete pass. But either way Doubs has to catch it. Doubs had a terrible day. That was his 3rd dropped pass on the day.
2 of which would have been first downs. The other one was a screen set up that would made it an easier try on 3rd down.

2 points
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croatpackfan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:26 am

"This simply isn't true."

It is the truth. Throw to Doubs went behind him. To catch the throw he had to turn his back to the defrnders. 3 of them. He made amazing move to go past the line of scrimmage, but the ball was hit and went out of bounds.

This is the truth. If you do not believe, go and rewatch the game. Than repeat watching that moment. It might bring you some light.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:42 am

If he holds onto the ball its first down. Its that simple. I don't get what we are arguing about.

4 points
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Packerpasty's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:09 am

He's in the NFL, if it hits your hands you should catch it..your supposed to be that good now...8 dropped passes...they weren't all bad throws...these guys in the WR group have a lot of growing to do and the #1WR would not be even a #2 on majority of NFL teams...

2 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:23 am

I agree. In the hands catch it. Time to stop blaming the QB for not placing it perfectly. (though sometimes he could do a better job of that). But place blame on the WR's who simply drop catchable passes.

2 points
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MainePackFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:43 am

Here you go. You make the call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjR2XXDOCRI

0 points
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jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:50 am

Pass was poorly placed, Watkins missed a block, and the pass was well-defensed (gee, like they knew what play was coming!). The defender affected Doubs' attempt to catch the ball, although there's no guarantee he would've caught it had there been no defender. Doubs reminds me of a first-year Davantae Adams.

1 points
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MainePackFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:02 am

Looks to me like the pass was thrown to inside leverage as was designed. Though I do agree with your Doubs/Adams comparison. Doubs has to catch that pass. If that was Lazard, Cobb, or Sammy, I have little doubt it would have been a first down.
That being said, I am a big Doubs fan and I think he has a very bright future,

3 points
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jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:17 am

You're probably right about the pass's location - AR would've thrown it inside to keep it from being defended/intercepted by the DB. Doubs then looked to the wrong side for the ball, but had to adjust. Washington did seem to expect that play though - weren't there three DBs in the area?

2 points
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MainePackFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:32 am

Yes. One went with Watkins over the top.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:36 pm

Watkins cleared too slowly for the go route. His burst is still not where it needs to be....

0 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:29 am

I thought he threw it inside so the CB can't make a play on it.

It hit Doubs hands, he has to catch it. He had 3 drops on the day. Just a bad day for him.

I also am a fan of Doubs! I think he is going to be very good. He just needs to focus a little more on catching the balls right now.

1 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:22 am

I wonder if Rodgers saw the CB coming to the outside so he threw it inside on purpose?

0 points
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Lphill's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:29 am

first down if he catches it.

0 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:49 pm

The ball was on target and hit his hands. He is supposed to be a Pro Receiver, Catch the ball. This isn't high school football, no excuses.

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:53 am

"I know it’s not in LaFleur’s persona to be confrontational, but in order to save this season, he has to get through to his quarterback. "

Confrontational? Hell, I'd settle for LaFleur being a HEAD COACH and telling Rodgers to either do it HIS way and run the MLF offense, or you'll be watching from the bench. All this buddy-buddy shit has got to stop.

BUT, there could be a huge problem with that. First of all, does LaFleur even have any answers? Secondly, does he have the balls to do it? I've been having flashbacks to the press conference introducing MLF as HC. There was Mark Murphy (Why? Well we all really know) doing all the talking instead of Gutekunst, and Matt LaFleur looking petrified.

I honestly don't believe LaFleur has the sack to give Rodgers an unltimatium. EVERYBODY can see Rodgers is a HUGE part of the problem EXCEPT that egomaniac Rodgers. In Sundays press confrence he was quick to point out EVERYTHING else that was wrong except pointing a finger at himself. Unfucking believeable!

I'll say this, if Rodgers is on McaFee today, smiling, laughing, and talking about "The Aaron Rodgers Book Club" with Pat, I'm going to fucking lose it. Nope, he needs to tell Pat to tell his audience, the Packers are in a freaking freefall. They've sold their future and are REALLY fucked because they gave me EVERYTHING. I OWE them, the fans, and my teammates to be focused 100% on FIXING this shitshow.

I'll bet $100 on Rodgers being on McaFee though because egomaniacs don't give a damn about nothing but themselves.

13 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:36 am

"EVERYBODY can see Rodgers is a HUGE part of the problem EXCEPT that egomaniac Rodgers. In Sundays press conference he was quick to point out EVERYTHING else that was wrong except pointing a finger at himself. Unfucking believeable!"

As you say Rodgers is a huge part of the problem. So what is he doing wrong to hurt the team?
I'm not a Rodgers apologist, but I'm more of a realist. What is Rodgers supposed to do when they had (from what I have seen on twitter) 7 dropped passes. They had 7 carries for 20 yards on first down. They had 3 offensive holding calls.

So educate me. What is Rodgers supposed to do differently to make this thing work?

3 points
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tincada's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:14 am

Work with the new guys in OTAs or as Mahomes did, working out with them on the side.

3 points
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RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:25 am

So Working with the guys at OTA's is going to make them catch the ball in week 6? Its going to cause the OL to block better?

Lets not forget they completely changed the OL in this game. The only player that stayed at his normal starting spot was Myers. Bakhtiari would have, had he played. But Jenkins moved from RT to LG. Runyan from LG to RG. Yosh from LT to RT. This is a big reason why the RB's didn't have a ton of opportunities in this game.

I actually feel better about the OL after this game then I did the previous however many weeks. Perhaps its something they will build upon.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:14 am

No, that’s not a legitimate reason why we didn’t run much. There are two big reasons why we ran outside on the opponent’s roster, but we had Jenkins with Tom, and Jenkins upgrades Runyon’s run weaknesses to balance Tom and Nijman in the right is perhaps our best run blocker at T to balance Runyon’s struggles with it.

3 points
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jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:55 am

What is Rodgers supposed to do differently to make this thing work?

- Not glaring at his teammates when they miss one of his poorly thrown passes.
- Not glaring at his teammates when they miss one of his on-target passes.
- Giving encouragement to his wide receivers, even if they screw up a play.
- Stop ignoring receivers who have the gall to actually drop one of his heaven-sent passes.
- Not sitting all by his lonesome, or hanging out with only Crosby, while on the sidelines.
- Taking responsibility for his own screw-ups.
- Stop throwing his teammates under the bus during press conferences.
- Realizing that he has lost some of his skills and that he cannot perform up to his previous skill level

And this doesn't cover things we cannot know, like his lockerroom demeanor, his practice demeanor, how he works (if he even does work) with Love, what plays he actually ignores the run and switches to a pass, etc.

This list good enough for you?

3 points
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mnbadger's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:28 pm

Good enough for me, though likely still incomplete.
GPG!

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:02 am

I was going to stay out of this, but having just watched again, I find I’m compelled to say something.

Rodgers has been less accurate, but the context in which he is doing it is an O design that makes it extremely difficult to succeed, for both the QB and WRs. No depth, crowded areas and Ds that are looking for overly run routes.

I read your exchanges on the Doubs pass. My only comment is that if that was where Rodgers wanted it, it was a hospital pass. Momentum, balance all rendered wrong in the face of an anticipated hit. The call was ludicrous and anticipated and Watkins just made it worse. Doubs had a similar one to his toes earlier. Those are passes that get your receivers off the field fast.

That’s not good QB play, but the routes called give little option. Rodgers in his prime gave his guys a chance or made one for them he’s not doing that often now. That’s the difference between OK and great. It’s just reality at this point.

However, look at the pass Jones caught for a TD: perfect. That was a busted flat pass that Jones made into a route. I really think it’s mostly what Rodgers is being asked to do. These hyper fast flat or short passes have never been his forte. He’s best with a Cobb and Doubs hasn’t been running those routes. The one other guy who did well with such routes in preseason was Toure. Yet we did not use him till the death.

This O, even with good protection, never gives Rodgers a chance to get into rhythm or his receivers who are typically surrounded, yet having to break tackles to get a down. Particularly Doubs. Want to make it as hard as possible for a WR? Call this O.

Rodgers was placing a lot of passes poorly and the 22 and the metrics people all back that. Doubs is credited with only one drop by consensus. More interestingly all of his targets bar ine were A) within 7 yards and B) contested. Doubs was supposedly the receiver open most often too. That should tell you all you need to know about what LaFkeur is calling and why that’s hurting both receivers and Rodgers.

This matters because the good/bad throw arguments are obscuring the real, critical issue. It’s not getting better with the O being run. I predict a lot more attrition at WR too if that doesn’t change.

3 points
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wildbill's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:05 am

Very accurate post CW. When most your throws are around the LOS that compacts the defense and makes for contested throws/catches. Hell I know what’s coming and I don’t break down game film all week. What happened to scheming guys open? Nobody is afraid of our play calls and it shows.
I would like to point out that it’s also Rodger’s fault when our DBs can’t catch a pass that I could catch as a 12 year old. And I didn’t have gloves that would stick to the wall if thrown.
I guess $50 mil/year makes you the scrapgoat(bad penalties,fumbled punts, missed blocks).
Brees, with an offensive guru Payton, had back to back 7-9 seasons if I remember correctly, bad teams do everything we as a team have been doing.

1 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:58 pm

What ever happened to the roll out that he can throw if it's there, or run out of bounds for a 1-yard gain? Rodgers used to extend a lot of drives that way. He did roll out more this game than any earlier games. The Commanders couldn't get to him on those. It takes one side of the field away from him (didn't use to) but he can still run for a yard if they refuse to let the backs. Maybe start platooning Love in. HA! I'm sure Rodgers would do anything to help the team.

3 points
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jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:22 pm

As noted in the Doubs exchange, I agreed that AR threw the pass inside on purpose. And I agree with you that the play call was bad as well. It does indeed look like Washington knew what was coming, probably based on formation and down/distance. MLF's tendencies must be becoming obvious.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:15 pm

A critical fourth and one and he goes opposite the QBs arm and vision. The ball should be directed to the right side. A TE just needs two steps and the ball is in his mitts on a post-up. It's not particle physics as they say.

0 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:05 am

HAND THE BALL OFF. THATS WHAT HES SUPPOSED TO DO. Lafleur was brought in to run the ball. Gutekunst has drafted AJ Dillon, a bunch of olinemen, amd even an h-back/fullback type with Deguara so they could RUN THE BALL. And what is Rodgers doing? Throwing the ball like its 2011 when he had Nelson, Jennings, Driver, Cobb, and Finley. He doesnt have those guys anymore. And when the passes keep going incomplete, he keeps pointing the finger. Its absolutely insanity. You got a front office and 52 players on one page and the $50 million dollar cancer on another page. Been saying this forever now that this team cant win like this. Rodgers either needs to accept the philosophy that the gm and hc (his bosses) want to establish or he needs to grab some pine until it sinks into his damn head. Anything else is a half measure that will not work.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:42 am

Bringing in a 250 lb RB to run inside zone was just dumb. They were running more power early this season and I thought it was a good addition since teams are figuring out the Shanahan scheme. But as soon as there's a little adversity LaFleur goes into his shell and falls back on the stuff that's not working.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:41 pm

This is very true

1 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:40 pm

I agree. Dillon should NEVER run the ball out of shotgun. He should be getting powers and counters and outside zones where he can get up to speed before he hits the point of attack. But you want to know why they stopped running those plays? Id like to call to your attention a play vs the bears game. It was a jet motion right, counter left play. They had been gashing the bears with it and it was also the run Jones took for a huge run vs the Vikings. So the ball is snapped, Rodgers turns the wrong way, and then fumbles the exchange while trying to make an akward handoff to Dillon. Instead of going to the sideline and saying my bad guys, the cameras showed him on the sideline having a complete meltdown and pointing his fingers cuz he doesnt like that play even tho it works. Tom Clements came running to the rescue to calm his precious child down and talk him off the ledge. Havent seen that playcall since. This is the 2022 Green Bay Rodgerses in a nutshell. But people call me crazy for saying hes a cancer.

1 points
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jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:19 pm

His playbook has more than 60 plays in it, right ?

0 points
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NickPerry's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:36 am

Hey RC...

Just ONCE I'd like to see Rodgers take some responsibility. Instead of telling every other player what they are doing wrong, man up and say, I need to play better. I need to make better throws. I need to stop throwing the ball in the dirt. I need to stop throwing 10 yards out of bounds. Or my favorite...
ON 3RD OR 4TH AND SHORT STOP SNAPPING THE BALL IN SHOTGUN AND THEN HANDING OFF OR THROWING A 65 YARD PASS TO NO ONE!!!!

Get the hell UNDER center (yes we know you don't like that Aaron) and then snap the ball. Just once I'd like to see Rodgers under center and then hand the ball off to Dillon or Jones. That snapping the ball in shotgun and then handing it off on 3rd and short DOESN'T WORK!!! This is ALL on Rodgers. Run the fucking offense!!!!

7 points
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croatpackfan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:40 am

Nick, I'm tired of writing ACR care only about selflove. He did not discovered it. He made it stronger by using ayahuasca. He does not know how to love others, nor he has empathy. He is doing only what he think is good for his acception in society and what would help him to grab anything he can for himself. Psychology call that kind of person as Psycopath. And no, not every psycopath will kill or do anything thst make him responsible in the eyes of law. He manipulate others to get what he want. And he want attention. As I can see, he just get that in huge ammount by positive outcomes or negative one. He had enough money so he has not need to be "evil" one. He is boring with football, preparations and trainings. Everything how he plays tells us that. He is affraid of retirement as he knows some, if not lot of attention will be disapeared when he retires.

I know one day I'll be here to tell you all: "I told you!"

-3 points
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T7Steve's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:07 am

If his thumb is bothering him so much that he can't go under center to run the ball on third or fourth and one, Rodgers needs to sit till it gets better. Even the handoff to Dillan that was fumbled, was up on his shoulder pads and Rodgers lost his grip. The back is supposed to rip the ball out of the quarterback's hands. That fumble wasn't all on Dillan.

Rodgers says the thumb is no big deal, yet he is always seen flexing it and holding it (especially after a bad throw) like a built-in excuse.

10 points
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egbertsouse's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:11 am

Murphy, Gutey, LaFlower; not one ball in the bag among them. Every time Diva throws a hissy they wet their pants and scramble to be the first to kiss his magic tea drinking ass. With these jokers in charge is anyone surprised that this team is soft? They gave up a crapload of draft choices to watch this team screw around like this. I hope they are held accountable but I really don’t expect the bankers, car dealers, and insurance executives on the B of D to do anything. They are happy just to be there at 1265 Lombardi Ave.

8 points
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tincada's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:10 am

I couldn't agree more. They've been riding the AR / DA train for the last 3 years and doing nothing along the way.

6 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:10 am

Thats not true. Rodgers' career was on life support before Lafleur came to town. He had Adams before that too. Lafleur literally saved Rodgers' career. But 3 years later, he has usurped this offense just like he did to Mccarthy. And just like Mccarthy, Lafleur will take the blame and ultimately be sent packing. The coachkiller just cant help himself.

0 points
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Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:26 pm

First point, MLF's hire is on Murphy. You don't hire one of the 3 most important people in your organization after just one interview. That is a terrible management practice in any industry including sports.

For over 30 years my business partner and I hired people all over the world for our consulting practice and we never even conducted the first interview ourselves. We always had our outside HR firm handle the early screenings and interviews after we thoroughly defined the profile of the type of person we were looking for. Even when we promoted from within we used our outside HR firm to interview our internal candidates.

MLF is clearly not prepared to handle a strong personality like Rodgers. He needs to have set the ground rules with Rodgers from day one and he obviously did not. Murphy who has known Rodgers since 2007. He should have looked for an HC who has experience with players like Rodgers, e.g., someone like Andy Reid. Someone who would establish the rules of the working relationship between an HC and a player first and foremost.

Maybe Murphy did realize that MLF couldn't deal with Rodgers and he wanted it that way, we'll never know. But Murphy didn't help by extending Rodgers to $50 million per annum through 2024. Stupid is as stupid does.

You're making the assumption that MLF is trying to run his offense, whatever that is supposed to be, and that Rodgers won't do it. But for all any us know Rodgers is making suggestions during the weekly game planning process and MLF is agreeing with it. Think about it. MLF knows that he doesn't have any actual in game, on the field play calling experience like Rodgers has. Steno, for some reason, probably for convenience, was promoted to OC and appears to have no impact on game planning or play calling at all. Who knows if Steno even has any influence over the OL decisions any longer.

As for Rodgers his career was never on life support prior to LaFleur. He only played in 4 games in 2017 and he played through 2 injuries in 2018 including a broken bone in his leg. As usurping McCarthy, he was never the same coach after the 2014 NFCC game and then the loss of his younger brother 10 days later. He was never the same coach again. By 2017 and 2018 he was going through the motions and so was his team. He needed a change and when it came from Dallas he took it. Good for him and I wish him well.

It's not Rodgers fault that his HC is not ready to be an HC. That's on Murphy and to a lesser extent on Gute. Murphy, Gute and Ball are all about their job security. Rodgers has been their meal ticket for that. As far as they are concerned MLF and his coaching staff are expendable. That's why Rodgers is still in Green Bay and was not traded when they had the chance to actually build for the future for the Packers. BTW, Rodgers is well aware of this.

Even now when Rodgers injured thumb is obviously affecting his throws this coaching staff and management team can't make the decision to give him a week or two off and let his thumb heal. Where is the usually very conservative Packer medical staff.

No, something is very wrong with the coaching staff and the management team at 1265 and that has been true for a very long time. They have chosen to keep the brand relevant and their jobs secure rather than do what is necessary to build the team to win the Super Bowl. But to a large degree I'm not surprised because that is how non-profit organizations work. 1. Maintain the cash flow, which for the Packers is done thanks to league revenue sharing and a sold out stadium for ever. 2. Protect the brand from scandal. 3. In the NFL maintain relevance in the league by remaining competitive and reaching the playoffs as often as possible. I know numbers 1 and 2 very well because I currently am a member of the Board of Directors for two non-profit organizations. don't get me wrong, the staffs at both work hard and they're good people but quite honestly they don't need to worry about their jobs. As for me I donate my time so compensation is irrelevant to me. But I can see both as a consultant to many of the Fortune 100 companies during my career and as a BOD member for non-profits the different approaches and priorities for the internal management teams and they are worlds apart.

In any case Rodgers may be part of the problem, actually he is a symptom of the disease at 1265, but he is not the only or biggest problem for the Packers at this point. Then again a win this week changes everything, as winning tends to do, just don't hold your breath for it. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:46 pm

Yes. I’d say that the period where Ball was really running the FO in lieu of TT and the decline in roster decisions was a real factor aggravating MMs struggles, but otherwise I think an acute summation of the dynamics that have led us here and not particularly unsurprisingly.

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:26 pm

A concise retrospective with a heavy dose of reality. No time for T.S. Elliot. I have the Pack over Buffalo by two.

0 points
0
0
jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:25 pm

I don't think LaFleur is 1/10th the coach McCarthy is, and I haven't liked McCarthy for years. You have to hand it to him, though, he's doing a very good job in Dallas - certainly better than MLF is doing here. Do I want him back, no, but facts are facts.

1 points
1
0
Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:43 pm

jurp - I think your post is fair. MLF is not close to the coach that MM was in Green Bay, at least up to 2015/2016 season. And yes he is doing a good job in Dallas. At least we knew that McCarthy was actually in charge of the players for most of the time that he was here. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:35 pm

He has Quinn and Kellen Moore making the defensive and offensive calls. He can deal with game time decisions and manage as a HC with a bit less pressure. Still, the draw play to Zak in the playoffs was a skull scratcher.

0 points
0
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:27 am

Their backs are up against the wall. Losing 3 games in a row after never losing back to back games under LaFleur. They are on the road against a team that no one will be giving the Packers a chance. Maybe Rodgers is right and maybe this could be the best thing for the team right now.

"The Packers only ran the ball 12 times"
So why didn't the Packers run it more? This was a tweet from Zach Kruse. On offense the Packers faced 9 2nd and 10 or longer situations. On first down they ran 7 times for 20 yards.

"I’m not saying LaFleur should be fired. But now is when we figure out just how good of a coach he is. The offense is broken. The Packers were 0-for-6 on third down on Sunday and are a lousy 25th in the league in third down percentage this season by converting just 35 percent. "
Packers were 0-6 on 3rd down.
-The first 3rd down, Lazard drops an easy pass.
-The next 3rd down was 3rd and 13. This was after a holding call on first down to make it first and 20. Doubs dropped a 2nd down screen that would have would have given them an easier to convert 3rd down.
-The next 3rd down was 3rd and 25. This was after a 6 yard loss by Jones on first down. Followed by a holding penalty to set up 2nd and 25.
-The next drive, there was a holding penalty on Tonyan. 1st and 19, became 2nd and 11. This is where Rodgers tried going deep to Watkins. Making it 3rd and 11.
-First drive of the 2nd half it was 3rd and 2 and Doubs dropped the first down catch.
-Next drive It was 3rd and 10, Rodgers hits Rodgers for 9 yards. This play live I felt they had the first down and was a bad spot. No challenges left to check it out.

"Rodgers will continue to throw the ball all over the field while LaFleur talks about how the Packers should give the ball to star running back Aaron Jones."
Packers ran 47 offensive plays. 17 of them went to Jones. They got the ball to Jones. that is 36% of the offensive plays.

4 points
5
1
Packerpasty's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:06 am

yup..8 dropped passes won't keep the chains moving...and the penalties sure didn't help, but hey, look at that terrible haircut on Rodgers and why does he have that weird girlfriend...for some people the hate runs deep overcoming common sense..this team as a whole is mediocre, no aging QB can perform miracles with this group, not to mention a head coach who has no answers...

4 points
5
1
RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:11 am

It is funny how many people do bring stuff that doesn't matter to the table when discussing Rodgers. The haircut, girlfriends, family, vaccine, etc.

Keep it simple. If those guys catch the balls that hit them in the hands, they move chains and who knows what happens. You can't keep dropping 3rd down and 4th down passes, and expect to win. Last week Lazard dropped a pass on 3rd down. He did it again this week.

Same could be said for the defense. They dropped way too many interception opportunities.

Rodgers dropping punts not ideal either. Do your job and good things will happen.

4 points
4
0
Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:05 pm

RC it’s easy to blame the QB because he is the focal point of the offense and the haters can simplify all their problems into one position.

It’s what happens after 40 years of TV airheads telling everyone that the QB is the reason why teams win or lose. I don’t understand how it can be Rodgers fault when our FGs and Punts are blocked or that our defense can’t get off the field in 3rd and long but yet it’s all Rodger’s fault. Totally ridiculous. Thanks, Since ‘61

-1 points
1
2
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:40 pm

Some people are thinkers; some are drinkers, as the old man would say.

0 points
0
0
Razer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:49 am

Yeah, but are they having fun?!

2 points
2
0
beautiful_mystery's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:08 pm

Yeah, time to get back to the FUNdamentals!

0 points
1
1
Johnblood27's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:50 am

I have seen Jones rip off 12 yard runs. sometimes on 2nd and long ya gotta run it, just like sometimes on 1st and 10 ya gotta pass it.

this team needs better plans with less wr screens and more running plays to get into better down and distances.

this team needs to be more unpredictable between run and pass in down and distance situations, jones is capable of ripping off a big chunk run, let him have the chance.

then again, none of this is possible if the OL is a revolving door and defenders are in the backfield immediately after the snap. Fixing THAT should be job ONE. Get BACK to it Mr Steno, your team needs you.

The soft defense needs new leadership and a large sized boot right in their collective sphincters!

defense is about talent but it is also a great deal about want-to and effort. guess which part of that equation this team lacks?

7 points
7
0
tincada's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:06 am

"head coach to get tough with his star quarterback". Head coach to get tough with his quarterback, there fixed for you.

1 points
3
2
Fubared's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:09 am

Ya start screaming at the guy who is getting 50 mil to put up winners. That should solve the problem. Hell his family yelled at him and he hasnt talked to them in years. Rodgers would quit or go into a shell if anyone accused him of anything he didnt like. Hes a baby

0 points
4
4
Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:10 am

Let him quit. Dont threaten me with a good time.

2 points
4
2
Fubared's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:06 am

I dont know just what anyone things LeFlower can really do. I'll give him this, he is missing receiving core and those that are playing have the dropsies. That aint on him. Doubs had them and Watson had them in college that was the knock on those two.
It was up to him and his staff to work on it and it seemed to fail.
The Bears are coming around and will not be push over for this team and the Lions will get their top RB and two receivers and possible Jamision their top pick may be ready when we play them so its not going to be easy going forward even in the division.

-3 points
2
5
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:37 am

Doubs did not have bad hands in college. He had a 130.6 QB rating when thrown to. In my view he’s been out in ridiculous positions by KaFleur over and over again. The other guy who had great hands is Toure, but we used Watson and Winfree.

Watson is a completely different kettle of fish. He has technique issues with hands and body positioning when he catches as well as concentration ones. Him I expected to be a pot luck option if not just catching in space and, ironically, he’s caught very few deep over the shoulder catches. They hit him mid range mostly and let him destroy after the catch.

Doubs and particularly Toure on the other hand have a long history of making those catches at high completion rates. We won’t really try them, Toure at all, yet we will throw them to Watson because he is fast! Yet we throw them to Cobb who is not.

Running a go route is mostly about tracking and ability to catch over the shoulder (hard). You don’t need a lot of technique if you can win at the line, you actually don’t need lethal speed, just enough burst to separate. Pick the guys who have done it and let them We chose to look to Watson.

Then again I don’t see evidence that we’ve given an iota of thought to how to get the most out of our rookies. In Doubs case we seem hell bent on putting him in the worst situations possible and Toure’s seen one pass. It’s just more incompetent coaching.

7 points
7
0
LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:03 pm

I agree that tracking the deep ball is just as important as speed. You need to have both. Besides the top guys the two guys I thought were impressive tracking the deep ball in this draft were Jalen Tolbert and Velus Jones and with Jones it was mostly at the Senior Bowl. Tolbert has 1 catch for 4 yards and Jones isn't even returning kicks for the Bears after he fumbled a punt. So what the hell do I know.

I think I'd gamble on Doubs returning punts this week if I was LaFleur. I say gamble because I'm sure his confidence is shaken and if he muffs one it would be shaken more. But having a big return could give him a boost and he was a much better punt returner in college than Rodgers was.

I'm not sure what the solution is for their issues. The drops and penalties are a new thing for LaFleur teams. Hard to know what's changed other than the lack of skill talent. But I'm not sure he's capable of fixing it. He brought up the fundamentals yesterday but there was nothing said about fixing it being a priority.

Getting tough with Rodgers would be way down on the list of issues to fix. So far down that if you fixed the top 5 problems it wouldn't be necessary. This article was akin to a gossip column to me.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:19 pm

I genuinely do not see a candidate other than Doubs in this roster. I thoroughly agree that this is not the ideal time to be putting Doubs there given his and the offenses struggles, injuries and confidence. Again, a decision delayed until a much less auspicious time forces it.

I’m still hoping Gute picks a punt guy up, Doubs has enough on his plate and Rogers needs to be inactive.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:48 pm

More reps to Toure' and keep all three TEs involved in the passing game. These dudes do not understand Game Theory, but they should keep a couple texts on their bed stands. If they employ rudimentary analytics
developed for the Fantasy FB crowd, no mas. Let Rodgers run the hurry up tempo 80% of the time and score points.

0 points
0
0
stockholder's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:13 am

Happy Rodgers, Happy Life. He isn't happy. And everyone could see it from the start. He's not the coach. And not the GM.
The OL was nothing but a Lab experiment and still is. Players Regressed. And Rodgers has had to be their COACH.
His arm is still better than Tom Bradys. You don't put him on the bench when we've had leads that don't stand up.
This team needs players to focus on their job, and not cash in on expectations. You only have to look at who can we sell, to see it.
Holding back is the problem. Pussies- make excuses. Players show up. Rodger's is taking the good with the bad. Don't blame him.

-1 points
6
7
RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:41 am

I mostly agree with you.

The OL has been a mess this year. And lets be honest, that is where we have been losing these games. In the trenches.
This is our starting OL this year.
Week 1 - Nijman, Runyan, Myers, Hanson, Newman
Week 2 - Nijman, Runyan, Myers, Newman, Jenkins
Week 3-6 - Bakhtiari, Runyan, Myers, Newman, Jenkins
Week 7 - Tom, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Nijman

They had a nice run where they had the same OL from Weeks 3 to through 6. Problem is that Newman was dreadful at RG. Jenkins struggled at RT. Now Jenkins goes back to the position he was an All Pro at.

Getting the OL figured out will open up more for the run game as well as helping the passing game.

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:52 pm

Preach it !

0 points
0
0
HarryHodag's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:13 am

I think the main point of the article is wrong. Rodgers hasn't had a good year but he's far from incompetent. It's the help around him that has blown it to date.

The time to correct the Aaron Rodgers situation was years ago. The cows are out of the barn, as they say.
Matt LF has made a fundamental error in management: you're there to achieve business goals. That means you have to make corrections regardless of how painful. It is very difficult to deal with what insiders would call, "high-bred horses", or people with enormous talent and an ego to match. The ego is what drives the talent but it is nearly impossible to deal with.

The Packers have a major problem with Rodgers. To this day I think he tanked it so Mike McCarthy would be fired. Rodgers thought the offense stunk. Bye-bye McCarthy. LaFleur knows this, so he's tried to coddle Rodgers and to date it has worked. I cringe when I see the 'buddy-buddy' stuff on the sideline. Matt LF should be the boss. You don't see another coach in the league with that type of relationship with his quarterback. It also makes it nearly impossible when change is necessary. The 'high-bred horse' thinks you've turned on him and in turn, he turns on you.(see McCarthy reference).

But on top of that, fearing fan backlash, the Packers capitulated to Rodgers and now have a cap problem that is not fixable. They have literally said 'ride or die' with Rodgers and we're all seeing where that is headed.

All that said I still think Rodgers isn't the problem so far this season. But Matt LF will be tested to see if he can find a path where corrections can be done without his big horse running out from beneath him.

1 points
5
4
LeotisHarris's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:41 am

Agreed, Harry. 12 ran poor old McMumbles out of Titletown by refusing to throw the damn ball and pouting. Murphy chose to hand the keys to the new coach look-alike prototype from NFL Central Casting (yeah, gimme one a those Sean McVay models) AND this model fell from the Kyle "The Genius" Shanahan coaching tree! Never mind that "The Genius" has a sub-500 record as a HC. Details. Pfft.

So, we had three terrific seasons that ended in disappointment. The collective brain trust of Hackett, Getsy, Outten and LaFleur pulled off the illusion of competence, with 12 having MVP seasons. After the O coaching departures, and that of ILB coach Mike Smith, the void was filled via promotions. Right now, those guys are struggling in their new roles, and LaFleur continues to do whatever he does and doesn't do.

The problems are many. No easy solution in sight. We're entering jackass-in-a-hails-storm territory; just have to hunker down and take it.

4 points
4
0
Packerpasty's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:59 am

I've always thought these young "genius" coaches should have spent more time running a Div II college team for a few years before jumping right into the fire...everyone wanted to look like Sean McVay's team..I bet you give McVay this Packer team the results would not be any better than they are right now...McVay's team is loaded with talent that makes for a seemingly great coach...

3 points
3
0
Packerpasty's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:01 am

when the WR's drop 8 or so catchable passes, some weren't perfect throws but hey, this is the NFL your supposed to catch anything you get your hands on, there isn't much a QB can do about these guys...

1 points
2
1
lkcsmith's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:45 am

I agree. WRs are professionals who get paid millions to catch passes, especially the difficult ones. Would anyone pay them to only catch easy ones?

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:58 am

Last year Hunter Renfrew had the best catch rate in the last 30 years: 80%. That means he dropped 1 in 5 targets.

There are other metrics that screen for “uncatchable” balls, but they are subjective. Interestingly those sources only blamed Doubs for one catchable drop in the last game.

What does that say? That your expectations are misguided and there were a lot more “uncatchable balls” thrown in the last game in the eyes of neutrals.

3 points
4
1
jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:29 pm

"uncatchable balls" implies poor passes from Rodgers.

2 points
2
0
Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:12 am

He couldve handed the ball off. The receivers cant drop a pass that never gets thrown.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:01 am

If the flat sideline pass were a surprise, then maybe, but since it’s a staple of our regular O this year, yes. Very low percentage play. In fact one they had been looking for the entire game (think about Jones’ TD).

-1 points
0
1
Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:50 pm

Thats been a staple for years. That play long predates Lafleur. Thats a Rodgers play. Been running it since the days of Jordy. It used to work when teams played 10 yards off the ball but nobody does that anymore. Instead of adjusting, Rodgers just keeps throwing it. Hes become so predictable and he doesnt even realize it. No self awareness whatsoever.

0 points
1
1
Razer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:18 am

I think that we are seeing the depth behind the "scheme" coach hiring. Lafleur and his coordinators are trying to pencil whip the opponent when the more traditional physical football approach is called for. Don't forget, Washington ran for 166 yards. Packers ran for 38 yards. Who owned that LOS? Robert Saleh said it and it is true. We don't have the grit to take a hit and respond. Rodgers has demonstrated this for the last years with repeated playoff disappearances. The Packers would have been better served to have hired a hard-nosed coach like Rivera who demands physicality. The decision to retain Rodgers would have been made by the head coach within a year of that hiring. The organization and coaches don't have the stomach for tough calls.

10 points
10
0
LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:18 pm

💯You nailed it. Definitely the feeling I get too, that LaFleur is trying to "scheme" his way out of the mess instead of cleaning up the mental mistakes.

Mike Wahle said last week that he's been on teams where the genius OCs keep adding plays to the point that you're practicing plays during the week that you don't even run on Sunday. That certainly seems like that might be the case with the Packers and could explain why they're having all mental mistakes. He said smart play callers remove a play for every one they add.

LaFleur smiled yesterday when asked if Rodgers' thumb was the reason they were running some many plays out of shotgun. Rodgers did say it did get banged on a couple snaps in the 1st half so that could be part of it. If it's feeling better this week ditching most of the RPOs and going with more under center runs and play action might be the simplifying they need. Buffalo certainly isn't exotic on defense, they run 4-2-5 over 90% of the time. If I was LaFleur I'd say this what we're running this week, know your assignment and man up and do your job.

2 points
2
0
T7Steve's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:09 pm

They seem to only have four plays. Not too complicated! They try to make them look different but, you can tell (and so can the other teams) by the personnel and formation, just about every play.

5 points
5
0
Starrbrite's picture

October 25, 2022 at 05:21 pm

Exactly—Saleh called it what it is.

2 points
2
0
Fubared's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:24 am

I never got on the LeFleur is great bandwagon. He inherited a hof in his prime and a decent team all around in a crap division. He should have been winning many games.
Now his receiving core is gone, running game is in neutral, qb looks used up and his real ability to coach is being revealed. Great coaches always had great talent to coach and knew who to get rid of if they didn't fit the mold. LeFleur is simply over his head now.

8 points
8
0
Razer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:46 am

...LeFleur is simply over his head now...

The bottomline - unfortunately

2 points
2
0
701Packer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:07 am

I think Lafleur is a fine coach and offensive mind, but he clearly doesn't have the mindset to reign in his QB and pump some life into this team.

-2 points
1
3
Starrbrite's picture

October 25, 2022 at 05:33 pm

I believe Colin Cowerd may have said it right—“LaFleur received a VIP invitation to the coaches lounge, but he never paid his dues”.

0 points
1
1
Bure9620's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:32 am

"We"ll see if he's got the minerals" as the Brits say. I don't believe MLF does, he is going to do as he is told by Player/GM. This is a absolute cluster. A coach without a pair and a past his prime, overpaid, narcissist QB who believes he is not the problem.

7 points
9
2
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:55 pm

I think you mean “stones”.

0 points
0
0
Packerpasty's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:55 am

Did you read the MilwJournal by Dougherty and Baranczyk? writing about simply catching passes.. "A better performance in that fundamental – it’s as rudimentary a part of football as blocking and tackling – could have made for a much different outcome.
It’s fair to say the Packers dropped at least seven and probably eight passes on offense, including four that would have kept drives alive by converting third or fourth downs, and another that would have been a big play, possibly even a long touchdown."" and thats plus the four INT's the defense could have had.. Rodgers threw some uncatchable balls but he also had not much help from this mediocre WR crew...its easy to load up to stop the run when the defense knows these guys won't catch the ball or run the correct route...MLF got some work to do and so does Gutes.....its going to be a loooong season...when aging QB's like Rodgers, Brady and Matty Ice aren't surrounded by really good talent this is what it will look like...

7 points
7
0
jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:09 am

"when aging QB's like Rodgers, Brady and Matty Ice aren't surrounded by really good talent this is what it will look like..."

Which begs the question - do great quarterbacks make a team great, or does a great team make a quarterback great? For us old guys, imagine Starr as a Redskin and Jurgenson as a Packer - would there have been a difference in the number of Packers championships in the 60s? Roman Gabriel for Starr? How about switching Montana for Marino? Would Marino have won the same number of SBs? Would Montana have been shutout as Miami's QB?

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:46 am

In camp, did Rodgers ever catch a long ball? The real question is why was he running that route? Tiny catch radius, no over the shoulder ability.

1 points
1
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:11 pm

That call should have been directed to Toure'. He dominated the sideline go route in college. It would have been six points. Gutedkunst showed his hand, his guy was featured. Read'em and weep. An age-old story in sports hierarchies.

0 points
0
0
Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:09 am

Mike McCarthy as Packers HC: "We're going to focus on the run game."

Matt LaFleur as Packers HC: " We need to run the ball more."

Mark Murphy through it all: "We're not idiots."

Maybe someone should say that "we are going to pass more often." Then may be we will actually run the ball more often.

The upcoming game against Buffalo is going to be very interesting. First just to see if the Packers remain competitive. Second to see if they have any pride as professionals to hang in with the Bills. According to NFL 538 the Packers have a 16% chance to win the game, which is a pitiful comment on the Packers current status.

I firmly believe that games are not won or lost based on any website prediction or commentary but rather by solid planning, preparation, execution and the will to win. Unfortunately we have not seen much of that from the Packers over the last 3 weeks. We'll see if the Packers rise to the occasion this week rather than play down to the mediocrity of their opponents from the past 3 games. Thanks, Since '61

6 points
6
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:51 am

"I firmly believe that games are not won or lost based on any website prediction or commentary but rather by solid planning, preparation, execution and the will to win."

I would say that we could safely say that the part that has been lacking the most is the execution. There have been way to many dropped catchable passes. Way to many mental errors in blocking assignments.

The good thing is this stuff is correctable. It is something that can change easily. But it hasn't yet and you have to wonder at what point does the poor execution start having a bigger negative impact on the team?

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:39 pm

RC, poor execution is on the coaching staff. Someone, specifically MLF, needs to effectively communicate to the team that poor execution will not be tolerated. If a player can't or won't execute his role he needs to sit. It's clear to me that is not currently happening on this Packer's team. There is no sense of urgency, they take bad penalties, They play too soft and they stand around watching for too often. It looks like, with a few exceptions, that they are playing not to get hurt rather than to win their games.

The mediocre level of play is becoming acceptable when it can't be allowed. The coaches need to send a message. That is part of their role. Thanks, Since '61

5 points
5
0
T7Steve's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:18 pm

The Chiefs keep running the ball even if it's not working. You have to pound the ball on the ground, put wear on the D-front and it gives your blockers a break. How else can the passing game start working, let alone play-action?

3 points
3
0
RCPackerFan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:00 pm

'61 -

Some of the poor execution can be on coaches. But the poor execution that I'm talking about is missed blocks, dropped passes, dropped interceptions. Stuff like that. That is 100% on the players. They have to make the plays. You can't drop 3rd down passes and expect to win many games. This has been happening way to often.

I agree with you though. if players are making poor decisions and whatnot, yank their ass out and put someone else in. they basically did that with Newman.
Rodgers basically said the same thing just now on Pat Macafee. Players that are continually making mental errors and mistakes need to be taken out and put someone else in. I am curious who they are referring too.

-1 points
1
2
Leatherhead's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:49 pm

RC, I agree with you on this. The people on the field have to show some pride and stop making all these mistakes.

You want your best players on the field, and guys who can't execute their assignments need to be replaced. It's not always as easy as 'get rid of this guy and put another guy in there' would imply. On the offensive line this year, for example, we expected Bakhtiari and Jenkins to be available by about the 4th week , and they are. We've been told repeatedly they want their best 5 on the line, and now they apparently have them: Bakhtiari(backed up by Tom), Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, and now Nijman at RT. If the Packers can keep this group on the field, it has a chance to be a pretty good group.

196 of our 242 targets have gone to six guys: Doubs, Lazard, Tonyan. Jones,Cobb, Dillon. If mental errors are being made, who's making them?
Deguara? Amari Rodgers? Watkins? Watson? That's a small fraction of our total.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:24 pm

If it one player in isolation maybe, if it’s many or simply team wide it’s coaching, technique, what they are asking from the player or simply a bad culture seeping into attitude, practice habits and focus. That’s a fundamental dynamic of any group performance assessment, not just sports.

5 points
5
0
Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:46 pm

Coldworld I agree with you. You play like you practice and you improve what you emphasize. From what I am watching it's pretty much team wide. Dropped passes, bad penalties, missed blocks, blown coverages, poor tackling, a QB playing with an injured thumb. That's why I have been posting that it is on coaching and also on management at the strategic level.

I do agree with Leatherhead that if we can keep the current OL group on the field that they can evolve into a solid group. That could take another 2-4 games. An improved OL should give Rodgers more time in the pocket but it's not going to help our receivers make the catches they need to make on 3rd and 4th down plays. That is up to receiving coaches to improve. If the OL can get the ground game going that would take us out of 2nd and 3rd and long and force the defense to think about run or pass on 3rd down. That alone should the offense.

Our defense is not playing well either. While they are allowing just under 19 points per game they are not making stops when we need them and they are not getting off the field on 3rd downs. The Packers are giving up too many yards on the ground, they're not holding the edge and the secondary misses too many coverages. They are under achieving as unit and they have essentially been healthy up to this point in the season. Hesitation and mental mistakes are the result of poor preparation. Again that is coaching.

Bottom line we're in a 3 game losing streak and getting worse with every game. Time to stop the bleeding and at least stay in the game for both halves.
Thanks, Since '61

0 points
0
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:43 pm

We should be intending to keep 4/5ths of the line in place. I have a feeling that Bakh and Tom will change in and out, potentially long term. That’s not ideal.

The D was looking fine in the first half, lovely aggression, playing tight and sticky. Then it fell apart. We still just don’t seem to be right in the LB space against the run where I think something is not working when Gary just pins his ears back or Gary is not thinking. We just aren’t right in the deeper secondary either. Which is doubly odd because it’s essentially the same personnel. I just don’t know why. I’ve watched, but I can’t figure out why one or two players are where they are

0 points
0
0
Johnblood27's picture

October 26, 2022 at 09:46 am

playing not to get hurt???????

wasnt that the over-riding message from OTA's on through Training Camp?????

guys sitting out, skipping practices, skipping games.

Then the bullshit of - playing 40 minutes of football is just too much for this defense.

What a crock of shit.

Saleh was 100% correct. This team is, and has been, S-O-F-T!!!!!

the time to get tough has come and gone. I believe this coaching staff has lost this team.

0 points
0
0
Bure9620's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:12 am

So true. MLF consistently saying everything starts with the run is ridoculous. Either you are not running it or your QB is refusing. This is a team built to rum the ball and they do not do it.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:28 pm

Well we’ve often started with a run on our first play.

0 points
0
0
Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:16 am

What does it tell you when 2 head coaches 5 years apart kept saying the same damn thing that never came to fruition while both had the same qb who has not been shy about his insuboordination to both of them? Chain of command. The Head Coach and GM the philosophy of the team and the team is supposed to do what the coach tells them. Period. End of story.

5 points
5
0
Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:41 pm

Back from the Patriots already??? Chain of command problems there as well? Thanks, Since '61

0 points
2
2
Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:53 pm

I must have missed Bailey Zappe blaming his coaches and teammates. He took his L like a man. What a novel concept.

0 points
1
1
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:15 am

Reading the responses above, it’s clear that the scale of the ineptitude still has us struggling to come to terms with it. As someone who wrote at length in the winter about fearing this would happen and why, here are my thoughts now.

1). I underestimated just how poor the coaching culture was
2). Resigning Rodgers with no cap left to speak of and this roster was a totally illogical decision.
3). The extension that was negotiated was so team unfriendly and such a relinquishment of basic options that Ball should be fired for doing so.
3). The scale and lingering impact of that decision doesn’t seem widely understood. This will be defining of half a decade at least.
4). Everything Gute has done otherwise does not fit with that decision. That’s good from an integrity point of view but makes things worse. The prior work was set, but drafting Watson and perhaps Wyatt is incompatible. Dissension in the happy house?
5). LaFleur can’t judge or manage subordinate coaches and hires. His record of choices and hires is itself grounds to remove him
6).This is not fixed by just canning Barry. In fact Barry is likely a symptom as much as a problem (this is not a keep Barry statement but a comment on LaFleur).
7). We got as far as we did in what Rodgers was capable of doing instinctively.
8). Our prior failures in the post season were a reflection that LaFleur is unable to guide Rodgers and the team when Rodgers way is closed down. This is why we don’t learn from failure and repeat.
9). LaFleur’s personality is now reflected in all aspects of the team and coaching. No hard decisions, no accountability, no discipline and a lack of focus.
10). LaFkeur has been shown to be strategically and tactically inept to a degree that is staggering without Rodgers/Adams to cover that.
11). LaFleur’s handling of preseason is among the worst in the league.
12). LaFleur had no plan for post Adams
13). LaFleur is in fact the most cautious, nay timid, head coach I remember. Then offensive scheme for this year is so minimalist, trusts no one not a vet, and puts so few targets out there in such limited areas that no QB us going to look good and WRs will all struggle. It is self defeating yet consistent. LaFleur will not try new things in game or game to game unless forced to.
14). Rodgers is not as good as he was, but he’s given no chance to get into rhythm.
15). Rodgers is not as smart as he thinks. He seems to really think he can do it on his own with Cobb, Lazard, and Watkins.
16). This is not a slump, this is a coming home to roost of multiple issues.
17). Firing Barry and Butkus may feel good but will not do much in isolation.
18). Trading for a receiver won’t get us far. This malaise is much wider than just WR talent.

The problem perhaps starts with Murphy. The reality is that the LaFleur hire has been a total disaster and having just let Rodgers sink or swim and see that fail, we are now seeing how devoid of leadership, vision and tactical talent he is.

We can’t fix the incomprehensible decision to extend Rodgers or the contract structure that nailed us to the wall. We can’t really fix the cap for 3 years either. We can’t touch Murphy. He shouldn’t be hiring the next head coach. We can remove LaFleur.

Firing LaFleur won’t make this roster make more sense. It won’t increase talent on field and off, it will, however, not only send a message but open the door to another changing the buddy culture, tightening coaches autonomy and defining expectations and then holding players to account. It might lead to a little less playing not to lose and that might work wonders on both sides of the ball.

As long as we sit here with LaFleur in place this culture will not change. As long as that culture is in place, there will be sloppy play, passive coaching and increasing dissent. The buddy culture wilts in the face of sustained adversity and ego. Losing LaFleur and changing the culture is the only hope of getting more of the potential in this roster onto the scoresheet. Everything else comes after that and flows from it.

We are past tweaks and twiddles. Root or branch or shut up shop and accept that this was the combination of the worst coaching hire in half a century and the most foolish decision on Rodgers. Whatever faults Rodgers has, what success we’ve had in the last 5 years is due to him. It’s inspite of LaFleur. It’s a shame such incompetence not only ends this way but likely screws any chance to rebound quickly even if Love is good.

Murphy should be a pariah. We are worse off now than while he let Russ Ball play GM and destroy Rodger’s roster while hiding TTs decline.

12 points
13
1
PatrickGB's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:28 am

Cold. I wish I could give you a 3/4 thumbs up. I can’t agree with everything but you bring up good discussion points. It’s well thought out.

3 points
4
1
fangirl's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:02 am

Cold- a masterful diagnosis.

1 points
2
1
jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:36 am

"The extension [of AR's contract] that was negotiated was so team unfriendly and such a relinquishment of basic options that Ball should be fired for doing so."

Are you talking about the guy who's almost certainly going to replace Gutekunst?

Murphy is the number one reason this team is at this crossroads. He needs to be gone ASAP and an executive hired who's in the mold of Bob Harlan. I am not at all optimistic that this will happen in the near or far future. I am not optimistic that Murphy can hire a better coach then MLF to replace MLF. Perhaps Murphy set up our unusual chain of command so that no one with any balls will want to coach the team - I don't think Murphy, the Great and Powerful OZ, WANTS a strong coach. Perhaps when the team ends a season last in the division the EB will finally clean house.

The future will look more like the 1980s than the 2010s.

2 points
3
1
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:05 am

Actually I hear talk that he’s Murphy’s recommendation to replace him. He was Murphy’s first plan to replace TT.

1 points
2
1
jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:34 pm

Ball replacing Murphy? Oh fuck, we will be SO FUCKING SCREWED if that happens!

2 points
2
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:21 pm

You think it is bad now, just wait for Low-Ball to run the circus in Siberia. He would make sherman look good.

0 points
0
0
Bure9620's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:15 am

All True, Blow it up

0 points
1
1
Johnblood27's picture

October 26, 2022 at 09:52 am

All points I have been beating on for over a year now. To the tune of lots of thumbs down, that is a symptom of my audience here at CHTV.

that said... I have also said this many times before...

murphy only has 3 years before his mandatory retirement at age 70 in July 2025.

NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE PRIOR TO MURPHY LEAVING!!!!!

book it.

0 points
0
0
PatrickGB's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:17 am

Packerpasty, you are spot on. There is little ot no talent at WR. People can bitch about Rodgers and Matt all they want but if the receivers suck, then there is not much to be done. All this radical talk is throwing out the baby with the bath water. And harping about the personal life and opinions of players who are HOF types is a silly reflection of people who aren’t confident in their own lives. Oh and “ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.” Is NOT the correct definition of insanity. Being of unsound mind IS the correct definition. And I have read some of that here, that, sounds closer to that definition.

I respect my fellow fans and understand the frustration, but let’s not let our emotions override our brain.

-1 points
4
5
BAMABADGER's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:17 am

Head Cheerleader, meet Peter Principle.

7 points
7
0
Since'61's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:42 pm

Cookie! Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
fangirl's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:53 am

Let's be honest. Green Bay dragged their feet for months about re-signing Davante. They did not want to pay a receiver that type of money. I do feel Aaron could have responded differently and perhaps tried to help the situation by mediating or asking for less or asking Davante to settle for less or... He did ask GB to pay Davante well and then he would sign. I feel, though, that Davante was enraged by his stagnant contract negotiations w/GB. Yes, GB, @ the 11th hour, did offer more than the Raiders but he was out.

I am bewildered as to why Aaron would have agreed to a contract w/o appropriate WR's. Perhaps he asked for 50+million understanding he would have to carry the offense. Perhaps he was promised better receivers?

Whatever the case, he essentially has nothing work with. His receivers are unreliable, aging, injury-prone, rookies, etc. No one is a deep threat, there are too many dropped balls, wrong route-running, failure to turn around to look for the ball, etc. He has tried to elevate Tonyan, Lazard, Cobb, Watkins, but none of these receivers have what it takes.

Aaron Jones is above average but he is small, has had knee injuries in the past and cannot be the 'guy' all game x 11 games.
GB just doesn't have the horses. Dillon is one-dimensional.

As much as some of you hate Aaron, he has no one to make this team work.

Josh Allen is a nice guy and I don't think he will try to humiliate the team. He is a friend of Aaron's.

GB is lacking in visionary leadership. Neither Gutey, MLF nor Murphy are that. People like Bill Walsh, Brian Daboll, Wink Martindale,
Siriani, Andy Reid, Belichick are visionary.

0 points
2
2
fangirl's picture

October 25, 2022 at 09:53 am

Let's be honest. Green Bay dragged their feet for months about re-signing Davante. They did not want to pay a receiver that type of money. I do feel Aaron could have responded differently and perhaps tried to help the situation by mediating or asking for less or asking Davante to settle for less or... He did ask GB to pay Davante well and then he would sign. I feel, though, that Davante was enraged by his stagnant contract negotiations w/GB. Yes, GB, @ the 11th hour, did offer more than the Raiders but he was out.

I am bewildered as to why Aaron would have agreed to a contract w/o appropriate WR's. Perhaps he asked for 50+million understanding he would have to carry the offense. Perhaps he was promised better receivers?

Whatever the case, he essentially has nothing work with. His receivers are unreliable, aging, injury-prone, rookies, etc. No one is a deep threat, there are too many dropped balls, wrong route-running, failure to turn around to look for the ball, etc. He has tried to elevate Tonyan, Lazard, Cobb, Watkins, but none of these receivers have what it takes.

Aaron Jones is above average but he is small, has had knee injuries in the past and cannot be the 'guy' all game x 11 games.
GB just doesn't have the horses. Dillon is one-dimensional.

As much as some of you hate Aaron, he has no one to make this team work.

Josh Allen is a nice guy and I don't think he will try to humiliate the team. He is a friend of Aaron's.

GB is lacking in visionary leadership. Neither Gutey, MLF nor Murphy are that. People like Bill Walsh, Brian Daboll, Wink Martindale,
Siriani, Andy Reid, Belichick are visionary.

0 points
1
1
croatpackfan's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:05 am

Yeah, ACR and Josh Allen are so good buddies that Josh Allen will give intentionally 4 pix six so ACR can say that Packers win the game... Good story. I would like some of the stuff you are using to try. Must be very good!

-2 points
1
3
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:21 am

I don’t know the truth, but I do believe that resigning Adams made no sense for him or us at 30 and that cost if Rodgers wasn’t committed to returning.

Rodgers has admitted that he did not commit until late February and that Adams knew it as the team had all along.

It seems very likely to me that the Packers delay on Adams was in fact driven by Rodgers. Whether Adams was ever interested in resigning once Carr was in Vegas is another question. If he was, we won’t know when he decided he’d move, other than that the team was informed before Rodgers decided.

Quite possibly, Rodgers was actually the architect of his own divorce from Adams. Regardless he knew of it when he resigned and was happy to do so knowing the cap implications.

0 points
1
1
701Packer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:13 am

Regardless of the talent around him, this team will only perform as Rodgers does. He needs to be a superstar again, and I don't think he can carry the team anymore. Maybe after they are eliminated from playoffs by the bye, we will get to see 4 weeks of Love. Then best case scenario for a reset is trading Rodgers this offseason post June1, when his dead cap can be spread out.

3 points
3
0
fangirl's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:35 am

A QB can only do so much w/o receivers. Aaron Jones is not the answer either. GB does not have the offensive horses.

1 points
1
0
701Packer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:09 pm

I partially disagree. He has receivers despite their experience. It's no ones fault he's throwing balls at their feet or over their head. Sure, they don't have the horses to be an elite offense, but they could still show competence with who they have if they would just realize who they are..

1 points
3
2
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:42 am

“ If Rodgers were to be traded prior to June 1st the Packers would take on a $40,313,750 cap hit in 2023. If he was traded after June 1st it would be a $15,833,570 cap hit in 2023 with $24,480,000 due in 2024. This assumes that the Packers did not exercise the option before the trade. If the option is exercised then the trade number spikes to nearly $100 million. There should be no need to exercise the option until the last possible day.”

What we can’t do is cut him. We essentially have to have a trade partner willing since as “his salary next year is fully guaranteed the Packers would take on over $99 million in dead money. While they could officially pick up the option and split that across 2023 and 2024 it would be about $31 million in dead money in 2023 and then $68.2 million coming in 2024.”

https://overthecap.com/looking-ahead-to-the-packers-options-with-aaron-r...

The Packers signed themselves into a hole that they do not have full control of. The above is a great in-depth look from earlier in the week (unless TGR rebuts it).

Murphy wrote beforehand (February 5, 2022, Murphy takes 5, Oackers .com) that “ He is likely to win his fourth league MVP, is the unquestioned leader of our team and is still playing at a high level at 38. … I don't think anyone in the league knows the rules regarding the salary cap better than Russ. He will be our most valuable employee this offseason.”

Perhaps that sheds some light on why we ended up in this position.

-1 points
1
2
701Packer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:02 pm

That is correct. The only option they would have in the near future is a post June 1, 2023 trade. Just an awful contract for Gute/Russ to give.

2 points
2
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:51 pm

That’s all Russ Ball/Murphy

4 points
4
0
jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:42 pm

Yep. As I noted above, our terrible current situation is ALL on Murphy.

1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:53 pm

Thank you for that explanation. What happens if Rodgers retires at t he end of the season?

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:44 pm

That’s not as bad IF he choses to retire. The article I linked to explains it in detail, but he would forfeit about 60 million in salary that becomes guaranteed at the start of the next league year. That takes some of the sting out, but reading the convolutions in options as to how that could play out in the link is probably better than paraphrasing.

-1 points
0
1
jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:43 pm

Those are 60 million really good reasons not to retire. I wouldn't, if I were him.

0 points
0
0
Leatherhead's picture

October 26, 2022 at 12:48 pm

On the other hand.....

Aaron Rodgers has an estimated net worth of $200 million and can certainly make a bunch of money doing something else, like endorsements and marketing. He could write a book about his experiences and it would make quite of bit of money. I don't think that money is going to be the prime driver on this.

Rodgers is a rare QB, but he is 39. Unless your name is Tom Brady, or your defense can carry the load, 39 year olds do not win Super Bowls. Lots of HOF QBs won a Super Bowl in the 20s and then never again. There are old QBs and bold QBs, but no old, bold QBs, because eventually a really big strong guy is going to make you pay for it.

I suspect that's how it's going to end for Rodgers in Green Bay. Multiple choice question: The last pass that Aaron Rodgers throws in Green Bay will be:

A) A playoff game winning TD.
B) A turnover
C) An inconsequential pass in an inconsequential game.
D) The play where he sustains an injury that effectively ends his career.
E) None of the above.

0 points
0
0
harleycops's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:42 am

I've got a simple, solid answer for the Packers' problems: Sean Payton!!

-2 points
2
4
Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:57 pm

You really think Sean Payton will come to Green Bay to be dictated to by Rodgers? He and Lafleur hadnt even had their first practice together before Rodgers was publicly shitting on Lafleur's playbook. Payton isnt stupid.

-1 points
0
1
TarynsEyes's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:48 am

I cannot help but feel that most comments now are 'copy and paste' from the preceding week(s), since every nuance of the issues has been revealed and repeated ad nauseam.

1) A weak back-boned HC.
2) A strong ego-driven QB
3) A FO of fools.

Number one was protected and hailed by many because #Two had what he needed to mandate his ego to dictate to #one. Which together made #three a group of fools when having need to subdue #two to a manageable ego-driven TEAMATE, or by the power vested in them to declare a divorce.

Now, the number of nails used to close a coffin shut eludes me, but we can be assured that the last few needed are at hand over the next few weeks. Two of the three are using the nail and hammer, the other is in the coffin. Which of the three is, or should, be in the coffin and not be seen again in GB? Do any deserve not to be in, or should all three be mass buried?

Take your time, because a resurrection will not be coming from any answer.

2 points
2
0
Swisch's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:56 am

In the summer of 2021, Aaron Rodgers humiliated the Packers.
He was holding us hostage by holding out, then came back at the last minute only to trash the organization as calculating and cold toward players.
In response, the management of the Packers shamefully capitulated to Rodgers, in effect groveled before him.
Then this past offseason, when they could have amicably parted ways with Rodgers, ridding themselves of his usurpations, they instead gave him a staggeringly stupid contract. (Apparently, Rodgers gets paid even if he retires. How does that work?)
Gute and LaFleur have sold out their dignity to Rodgers -- and that's not only a sorry state for them, but a huge dysfunction that is ruining the entire team like a cancer. (If they were directed to do so from above, they should have spoken out, even resigned, rather than pandering to arrogance intruding on their jobs.)
Rodgers has brought the Packers to a miserable decline; Gute and LaFleur have enabled him.
It's a crisis for the Packers.
***
The only thing to do is to bench Rodger if he refuses the change his attitude and yield to proper authority.
Have Rodgers sit on the sidelines -- or inactive -- game after game after game after game after game . . .
Start anew with honest admissions and sincere apologies from management (with perhaps some resignations and firings), and a promise to never again let a player become a petty tyrant.
End this disgraceful era of the Packers; start anew with a commitment to character.
***
By the way, there's enough talent on the Packers without Rodgers to contend for the playoffs next season, and perhaps even this season.
Also, Josh Allen only became great through playing in regular season games. I think Jordan Love could do the same. They both came into the NFL rough around the edges, but with strong arms and legs, and lots of potential. If Rodgers stays stubborn, it's time to give Love a chance.
In any case, let's just do the right thing, and make the best of our situation to restore the Packers to a place not only of prominence, but of admiration.

-1 points
5
6
LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:26 pm

Love isn't a quarter of the runner that Allen is. Getting deep in here.

2 points
3
1
Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:06 pm

Maybe not, but he has a cannon for an arm. Not quite as strong as Allen's, but hes up in the top 5 or 6 best arma in the entire league. And hes mobile enough that it can make a difference. Point is, he has the tools. But you cant master those tools without being given a chance to actually use those tools, make mistakes, and learn from those mistakes. Why is everyone so terrified of giving this kid a chance? Whats the worst that could happen? They lose? Kinda like theyre doing right now in the ugliest of fashions? Let Love play. Lets see what he has. He might just surprise just like Rodgers did so many years ago.

3 points
3
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:54 pm

It’s no different than it was with Rodgers. Both were potential harbingers of change, the end of an era, the loss of a guy who has done great things and in some cases is an idol, the fear of the future with an unknown commodity at QB. Emotive times. Both were also used to bash the GM that picked them too.

0 points
0
0
LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:02 am

This is pretty close to being a National Enquirer type article. If I wanted to read something like that I'd go to Mike Florio, who has had a lot more time to perfect his "craft." You're not in the huddle or on the sidelines so you have no idea what plays are being called. They're calling more RPOs these days than in past seasons. Who do you point the finger at for that? When LaFleur was asked about the number of runs yesterday the only thing he said was he thought two passes to Jones should have counted as runs. He also said it's hard to get in rhythm in the run game when you have a bunch of penalties and dropped passes.

Also Rodgers isn't changing the formations, just the plays. It's not his call to line up in short yardage situations in the shotgun with a 250 lb RB BESIDE him instead of behind him where he could get some momentum. I think they might have run two inside runs all game which points to LaFleur being afraid of the big bad DTs Washington has instead of doubling one of them and running some power like they were doing earlier in the season. Listen to LaFleur's reaction to being asked why so many plays out of shotgun and so few play action passes and tell me it's time to get tough on Rodgers. It starts at about 10:25 into the press conference yesterday.

https://youtu.be/FSFiMfZOD00

The 1st thing LaFleur needs to do is get tough with the WHOLE f'in team about mental mistakes. Drops, penalties, run fits, DBs afraid to tackle. He's not a get in your face coach so his only option is to threaten playing time and, if that doesn't work, starting jobs.

Everybody is grasping at straws looking for the answer but this is quite the reach. Try to do better next time.

3 points
4
1
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:00 pm

The answer is staring you in the face in the very comments you write , or at least the first step in a long process of recovery. LaFleur is a failure, has been one and there’s no meaningful hope of revival while he remains.

The question left unanswered is how long will it take to accept that and how far down will things go while they carp about execution and other minutiae that come from and will continue to be spawned by a failed coaching regime.

Fix that and maybe we have an opportunity to look at other, compounding issues that explain how we went into this season so willfully blind to the obvious roster dichotomy and at such great cost. Your hands are as full of straws as any.

3 points
3
0
LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:34 pm

If LaFleur is a complete failure why did they not have these problems with drops and penalties until this year? Did the hard nosed ghost of MM hang around that long?

I agree that LaFleur is pulling the typical mad scientist OC BS to try and get them out of this funk and there doesn't seem to be a coach on the staff that can get in the faces of guys that are consistently making the same mistakes. But the lack of execution this year is a recent thing. Saying LaFleur is a terrible coach doesn't explain why they didn't have these issues his 1st three years.

1 points
1
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:01 pm

Entropy increases under duress and is less hidden by talent. I think it’s you who comments (with some acuity) that Butkus can’t mess up Tom’s technique: similar principle.

I stress, I did not say KaFleur is a failure because of the minutiae: he’s a failure as a leader which eventually percolated down to create the causes of them. Widespread minutiae or execution issues are a symptom of composite failures as these manifest at the coal face: the field.

He is a tactical failure too, which increases struggles by putting players under extra pressure and in Worse situations, compounding the scale of the issue. A current example of tactical driven failings is his use of the wrong people in the O line, hampering others in the line, RBs, Rodgers etc and running an O that also inherently invites additional stress in that line and, with it, execution failings.

1 points
1
0
CheeseAndBourbon's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:03 am

MLF seems more and more like a real-life version of Bobby Newport from Parks and Rec. Handsome, charismatic, charming, but not very bright (relative to other top-tier HCs).

3 points
3
0
fangirl's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:40 am

.

0 points
0
0
fangirl's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:40 am

LLChesty-I agree w/your take.

It feels better to demonize Rodgers, though-LOL

0 points
1
1
LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:46 pm

I don't believe his issue is intelligence at all. Teams tend to take on the personality of their coach. This isn't a very tough team. A coach can't change his stripes mid stream without the possibility of losing the team completely so his only recourse now is to threaten playing time and/or starting jobs.

They have switched up what they're doing on defense quite a bit but are still having problems with run fits. The changes to the OL should help down the line. Keep switching out guys that aren't doing their jobs(Amari) and sitting guys that are making the same mistakes and they might be able to somewhat straighten things out. Right now I'd say it's possible but not probable but look what they did in 2016 with probably the worst CB group in the league.

0 points
0
0
CheeseAndBourbon's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:45 pm

I think he’s smart, just not HC smart, maybe not even OC smart. The Peter principle.

0 points
0
0
jannes bjornson's picture

October 25, 2022 at 10:40 pm

Bill Walsh won a SB with three rookies starting in his secondary. Siefert coached the group along with Ray Rhodes.
Which of the remaining LaFleur tree will end up as a HC ? Hackett is on pins and needles at the moment in Denver.

0 points
0
0
jlc1's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:04 am

Honest question here. This whole article and thread are based on us knowing Rodgers regularly changes the play call. How do we know that?

5 points
5
0
Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:04 pm

It doesn’t really matter at least to the critical point. The calls are what we get. That’s on the Head Coach whether Rodgers changes them and he agrees or accepts him changing them if he does not.

The result is still rotten whoever gave us the apple. Therefore it has to change. That’s not coming from Rodgers even if he is in fact the major source. It’s coming because of LaFleur.

2 points
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jlc1's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:38 pm

So you're saying that Rodgers maybe is at fault for changing the play or for not changing the play?

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 03:51 pm

I am saying LaFleur is responsible either way so it makes no odds in this context

1 points
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Rarescope's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:33 am

Some real gems here Corey, even for you:

"Rodgers waited until the 11th hour to make a decision on his future, which ultimately cost him the best wide receiver he’s ever had."

Source? (other than the delusional fantasy land you live in where you think you are a respectable sports writer)

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

Wow, that's deep man! (And it's also the title of another posting from today on this site. And not true.)

in·san·i·ty
/inˈsanədē/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness.

extreme foolishness or irrationality. See: me for continuing to come to this site expecting serious football analysis as opposed to the latest takes on ARods haircuts and relationship choices.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:06 pm

Rodgers has stated as much on his timing and not obliquely and in the context of Adams’ timeline. That’s not seriously in doubt.

I think you should hang on to that lithium.

1 points
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Rarescope's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:38 pm

I stand somewhat corrected - the Googles tells me that ARods timeline did play a part in Adams leaving but it didn't sound nearly as cut and dry as Cory made it sound. It sounded more like Adams was looking for his next long tenure with a team and was expecting ARod to retire in the not too distant future - not that he took too long to make up his mind. I guess I just don't pay as much attention to the behind the scenes BS. Just bugs me when opinions and conjecture are reported as hard fact and everyone automatically assumes it's true - see "Hero Ball", "ARod won't run MLF's offense", etc.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:07 pm

Yes, I remember very clearly because I thought Rodgers was going to see through it and bolt for the hills. I was truly stunned when he still signed (just as stunned that we were daft enough to offer).

0 points
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jurp's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:49 pm

"extreme foolishness or irrationality."

This is exactly what "doing the same [stupid] thing over and over and expecting different results" MEANS. It is a METAPHOR. Look that one up in your dictionary.

1 points
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Rarescope's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:51 pm

And an extremely over used one. I saw it on three different articles today, two of which are on the same site!

2 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:08 pm

Its Einstein's definition of insanity. You know, the guy who was an absolute genius?

0 points
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Roadrunner23's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:41 am

Packers must face facts:

A: They are not making the playoffs this year.

B. They have to cut bait with Aaron Rodgers, Randall Cobb, Sammy Watkins, Mason Crosby, Dave Bakhtiari, Mercedes Lewis and Adrian Amos.

This is a young man’s game and all of these guys are over the hill and the cap ramifications of some are killing the team.

C. They must dump Joe Barry as DC and Steno as OC.

D. They must undergo a two-three year rebuild (due to the amount of dead cap space)

E. They MUST draft BETTER!

F. They must find out asap if Love can actually play, if not they need to get a QB!

This will be a pain for several years during a major rebuild, especially on offense. But the good news is that the Packers have a lot of excellent players on defense and a few young pieces on offense to build around.

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:51 pm

Have you looked at the standings in the NFC? Rodgers is having his worst year ever and is tied for the lead in TD passes in the NFC.

Seems like there a lot of people on here that tip over the chessboard when they're not winning.

-2 points
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Alberta_Packer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:16 pm

Yes to a re-build - although a year too late. The bigger question for me is whom do we entrust a re-build to? The same management that created this jumble? IMO a major purge is necessary before a major re-build - beginning with Murphy (Jerry Jones 2.0).

7 points
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fangirl's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:47 am

Superficial 'analysis' by the writer.

1 points
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skyler's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:54 am

We have a nice piece of dirt to slide down on, miss Harlen and Wolf's leadership

4 points
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skyler's picture

October 25, 2022 at 11:57 am

But he has great hair...

0 points
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SinceLombardi's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:49 pm

Winning six games ( three more ) IS a stretch. It’s very difficult to reign in an entire team ( including the star QB) that you’ve lost.. especially in season. I just don’t see it. He’s going to have to go at seasons end. IF he can turn it around , more power to him.. and he has a future here.

-1 points
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SinceLombardi's picture

October 25, 2022 at 12:54 pm

It makes me think to a Lombardi audio clip where he wonders aloud ( regarding how tough he is )
“They say am I worried about their feelings , but I say never mind how they feel… they better worry about how Vince Lombardi feels”
Perfect

0 points
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ricky's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:06 pm

This is Rodgers' team, not LaFleur's, not Gutekunsts, not Murphy's, or even the fans. With his contract and the dead money associated with getting rid of him, Rodgers is tied to the team for at least another season. Now, as to who might be willing to take on Rodgers and his contract, the only team who would be stupid and desperate enough would be Indianapolis. Jim Irsay is a terrible owner, who seems to have no clue how to evaluate talent. So, the Packers might not get a lot in return for Rodgers? The question being, with him at QB at this point, what are they getting? A guy who seems angry, dispirited and depressed, seeing his chances of a return to the SB as minimal. If the team could take the dead cap hit, deal him for a second or third and start the rebuild. Though with the Colts, you might be able to shake them down for a first and a player.

1 points
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brenner's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:24 pm

Maybe it's time to give Sean Payton a call. Pretty similar formula to what he had in N.O. HOF QB, star at RB and talented defense. Payton always seemed like someone that doesn't tolerate bullshit either. I think a lot of the issue is that Rodgers and lafluer are so close in age, but Rodgers has way more experience than lafleur. Payton would command respect and make it known to all who's in charge.

0 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:10 pm

Payton isnt coming here to coach Rodgers. Thats a pipedream.

0 points
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Alberta_Packer's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:45 pm

It seems that all of Rodgers relationships - whether it be personal or professional - have a best-before date - which now has passed with MLF. Essentially MLF has been reduced to an emotional support animal for Rodgers.

5 points
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Pack1961's picture

October 25, 2022 at 01:58 pm

Sorry you don’t know what you are talking about. Rodgers doesn’t run the team, Gutey does. Rodgers has less input than Brady, Mahomes, and even Kyler Murray.

38 yards rushing and 6 drops - Sorry it is gross negligence to write that Rodgers is the cause of all evil here.

Put your pen in the garbage.

-4 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:12 pm

12 carries. 12 stinkin carries. What do the rbs have to do huh? Average 10 fricken yards per carry to get Rodgers to hand it off more?

0 points
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Packers0808's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:21 pm

Nothing else is working maybe a gadget play here there will. Packers are really a predictable call team especially with Rodgers thinking he is God when passing ball.

-1 points
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Packers0808's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:21 pm

Nothing else is working maybe a gadget play here there will. Packers are really a predictable call team especially with Rodgers thinking he is God when passing ball.

1 points
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bigstickpattyb89's picture

October 25, 2022 at 02:26 pm

There's an old saying I learned from dear Ol' Vic Ketchman, It's better to get rid of a player a year too early than a year too late. Who knows what went on behind closed doors but it is hard to imagine a future that wouldn't have been better trading Rodgers at this point. A world class haul of draft picks and salary cap freedom. The future would be looking bright and the train would be out of sight again. Instead the train is here and its a-whistlin'.

I keep reading fans say that "hey on the bright side, at least we'll have a top 5-10 pick". The way I see it, there is no bright side. The body language and performance I see on 12 tells me he doesn't want to be here anymore. Much like Brady, I think Rodgers has reached that mental limit. Rodgers has said he doesn't want to play on a rebuilding team, so who's to say he doesn't retire at the end of this year and have the last laugh? If Rodgers retires next year, the Packers are smacked with almost $70 million in dead money. That is cut and gut level dead money. That is back to the 70s and 80s type dead money. We could have had a chance to turn this ship around fast, instead we are headed for the dark ages. I hope I am wrong, but it sure doesn't feel like it.

0 points
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Stickfish's picture

October 25, 2022 at 06:00 pm

I keep thinking the good folks at 1265 Lombardi tried to trade #12 . . . But alas could not find any real takers. And now, it would certainly appear if the aforementioned is accurate they were all correct. A pass on 3rd and goal for a TD might have helped your MVP cause last year, does little for your team now. Or, for that matter a new team in 2022. And it is about the team. Or, at least it should be.

<><

1 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

October 25, 2022 at 07:25 pm

The Broncos wanted him bad. I know this because they waited until Rodgers announced he was coming back to Green Bay then traded for Wilson an hour later. They went from plan A to plan B in a heartbeat. Trading Rodgers was never going to happen thanks to Mark Murphy. The two of them care more about their legacies than the longterm health of this team.

1 points
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Stickfish's picture

October 25, 2022 at 08:06 pm

Could be, also could be Elway played us like a bad fiddle as his ownership was transitioning and he hemorrhaged Green Bay in the process. Or, he allowed us to. Hard to believe he was all in on Wilson but at the end of the day he doesn’t sign the checks.

Truth may very well be a lot of expensive conversations take place that never see the the day to most of us.

<><

0 points
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mjbrogno's picture

October 25, 2022 at 04:58 pm

I do not like to give up , but this coach has never been able to make in game adjustments or half time adjustments. It’s really hard to watch a team that seems to accept things as is when they’re going wrong and not have the fight to try and change the momentum.

1 points
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