Deguara is an H back not a move TE. If that’s what the plan is, I don’t see it working. Either LaFleur returns to using the H Back role that he was once so excited about as part if his illusion of complexity and motion or we will see that in fact it wasn’t Rodgers blocking the latent brilliance if LaFleur’s offensive mind. In that scenario, Deguara will continue to be a guy who is under and usually inappropriately used. Last year, when used, he was both efficient and effective. Yet in an impotent and predictable O, blink and you missed it and success never got more targets. Pointless. Over to you Mr LaFleur.

The problem is that new ad exciting offense from 2019 is now being used by almost half the teams in the league and defenses have adjusted to it. I'm not sure LaFleur's version was ever great shakes anyway compared to Shanahan.

Anyone who thinks the offense will be better sans Rodgers is deluding themselves.

who's fault will all the miscues and losses be this coming season?? Im betting the blame will be cast on MLF, never Love, that would make too many people wrong...

Whatever. You believe what you want to believe. Guessing your darkness retreat might be up AR's arse.

Since75 and Parker patsy, thank you for living in reality, it’s refreshing to hear rational opinions on this site..If we stink with love and Rodgers is traded, people on here will still try to find a way to blame Rodgers..

Thanks pal! Nice to be back!
Now, on to the unexplored frontier that is JL10!

One TE.

One DT.

Dream picks for both if we stick with 13 and 15, in my AR trade dreamworld. It gets even better trading both picks down. That's some Everly Brothers shizzle right there.

Dream, dream dream dream
Dream, dream dream dream

We'd snap just about as many picks from that too. Count the dreams. I could easily see Gutekunst turn 13 & 15 into 4-8 picks. LOL

@RC

Wouldn't it be nice if the Packers used a couple of 1st round picks on pass catching talent?

Or.....on offense?
When was the last (and only) time the Packers spent a 1st round pick on offense the last 12 years?
Jordan Love (2020), holds clipboard and tells Gute how nice his hair looks.

11 Def. players

1 Off. player (who doesn't play)

All the 2019 defensive free agent spending, coupled with all the 1st round draft picks, You'd think during that time, we'd have an elite defense right?

Uzomah after a trade down from #15 ino the 20s. I want sacks, not five techs.

I would be fine with going Edge. We need to upgrade our Edge. We don't know when Gary will return. Preston is good, but not elite. Enagbare hopefully takes a step, but can't always count on that. But we need to upgrade our Edge.
With the rotation we use at Edge I wouldn't be surprised if they would draft one in the first round. Van Ness feels like a Packers type of pick.

Gute explicitly said that they drafted him because he was one of the rare players in college that played as a true H Back (La Fleur calls it F Back) not as a FB or TE and that that was something LaFleur felt necessary for his O. LaFleur echoed that and that it was a key piece in the installation of the illusion of complexity.

Better TEs in this draft.

I really like Tom as a RT. They possibly will bring Yosh back too.

I have a feeling they are hoping a team signs Yosh so they can get a 2nd round pick for him.

Gg please explain how wide receiver is the least of our worries ?!?!? We have a great 2nd year guy in Watson that often injured, and a 4 th round player in Doubs that’s decent, but also often injured.. No vets( which I don’t really miss Lazard, Cobb, or Watkins) all jags to me.. If any injuries happen we’re done, and we’re already done basically.. I Bo melton could become elite or something..

If the Rodgers trade hasn’t happened or doesn’t bring us a first, I increasingly think trading down is attractive unless the draft throws up a Rodgers type drop. There’s a lot of roster spots we need to fill and a lot of round 1/2 type talent I like and few clear elite blue chippers I see getting to 15. I’d consider trading back twice in certain circumstances.

I thought he would look for a multi-year contract somewhere. Probably read the tea leaves surveying this year's TE
draft depth.

He wanted to stay in WI.
He can Commute now.

Trautman was a better choice.

Thanks for that info RC. It just shows that drafting is not easy, and our front office is better than most.

Does bad news come in "threes"? Looks like the 3rd round is like a bad rash on other NFL teams too.

You know what I regret? Forgetting to include the words, "chances are."

Seriously, I've been a Deguara proponent since his drafting, and I feel that there has been so much scheme noncompliance since his drafting, coupled with the ACL, that we really can't say what we have with him with any certainty.

Chances are just as likely that he surprises us all in 2023, and Gutekunst & LaFleur look like geniuses.

Being we did not have an R4 in 2020 (Love trade R1), Deguara would not have lasted to R5 based upon what I recall reading post draft.

That's a highly unique scheme specific position Josiah was drafted for. He's the only Gutekunst pick I had right that year!!! No kidding. I just didn't have him R3... but, rather, R5.

I liked him that much at the time, and still do.

I was screaming for Lucas Niang. He opted out of the 2020 season due to covid, tolling his contract. His rookie year was 2021. He played 524 snaps and got a 64 grade from PFF (about what they gave Nijman last season). After starting 7 games, a nightmare of injuries ensued. Rib injury knocked him out after 5 games, missed time, game back, started a game, missed more with the ribs and then tore a patellar tendon in the week 17. That meant he started 2022 on PUP and wasn't activated until late November, but he didn't play except on STs.

Niang is entering his 3rd season. Two sites list him as the starting RT (ESPN and Ourlads) but kc.com has him 3rd string. Jury is out and injuries have been unkind.

Oh well, maybe they don't take Zach Tom if they had taken Niang.

Just not enough. Marcedes Lewis caught 6 of 7 but that doesn't make him a good receiving TE. Deguara is a 3rd round pick, but there simply has been too little production. And his blocking notwithstanding a couple of splash blocks as a rookie has been subpar.

Sternberger: 2020: 12 recs, 15 targets (80.0%), 114 yds.
J. Deguara::: 2022: 13 recs, 15 targets (86.7%), 114 yds.

2020 play got Sternberger released and he is essentially out of football. Not seeing the difference between those stats and Deguara's. Now, Deguara is a better player than Sternberger and I am not advocating for his release, but he is a limited guy who can't begin to play inline TE and can only mumble fake move TE.

No, he came out of the same place but he played H back. Kelce was a blocking TE who could lead block effectively. with questions about how much he’d offer in the passing game. Deguara was an out and out H back there and profiled as such by most analysts.

Deguara played inline, in the slot, out wide and in the backfield, and lacks true tight end size at 6-2, 242, 3 inches shorter and 13 pounds lighter than Kelce. His comparatives were not with Kelce but 49ers fullback Kyle Juzczyk.

After the draft, LaFleur made it clear that that’s how we saw him too:

““I love Josiah,” LaFleur said. “He is extremely versatile. The thing he brings to our offense is, we can be in the same personnel grouping and we can line him up on the line of scrimmage or in a wing alignment or in the backfield. I think that adds stress on the defense. When you watch Josiah, you see such a gritty, tough player.”

Brian Gutekunst said LaFleur was “very, very excited” about getting a chance to use Deguara as a movable chess piece in the Packers offense.

Given LaFleur’s long-term coaching connection with 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan and the skill set Deguara is bringing to the next level, the easy comparison for Deguara quickly became 49ers fullback Kyle Juzczyk. And LaFleur confirmed the Packers envision a similar role for Deguara.

“We will try and emulate some that stuff in terms of how the 49ers use (Kyle) Juszczyk,” LaFleur said.”

Cant add the link unfortunately, as I already have one in this thread. Just search ‘LaFleur on Deguara’.

Yes, but I felt that that would just bury the intended point.

I am hoping we draft Darnell Washington, but if we just use him as a blocker and target him 7 times in a season, why draft him at all?

https://zonecoverage.com/2023/packers/monster-tight-end-prospect-darnell...

Big Dog 2.0 visiting GB today.

Daniel Jeremiah has him as the 22nd best player in the draft in his new top 50 prospects. That's what I saw on tape, too. Thinking many players ranked in the 1st round in January will be 2nd and 3rd round picks come the end of next month.

"I would seriously be interested to know if MaLF called that play or AR did. Perfect call with execution is something we can use more of, for sure. "

As I asked CW in an earlier post, did he recognize who threw that ball. It wasn't AR as he wasn't in the game so if he is also Offensive Coordinator then he was involved in the play. Otherwise, it was MLF/Hackett who called the play and Love who executed it. While only 1 play and it's only an association, but did we see the MLF offense being executed by our next QB to an asset that MLF gushed about, yet is never utilized when AR is at QB? That isn't any smoking gun, but just more correlations to the fact we haven't really seen the MLF offense because AR does his own thing. The real test is what happens in 2023. GPG!

If you mean LaFleur, yes. He calls the plays.

That's astounding and says it all. Thanks for the info. I suppose the silver lining is that he does catch the ball, and managed that 50 times!

Deguara was targeted 15 times and caught 13 passes for 114 yards over 17 games in the 2022 campaign but he finished with roughly half the number of receptions and yards as he did in 2021. With an over 80% catch rate, Is that on the player?

Deguara was often open and ignored last year. Coach or QB, I don’t know, but a guy who gets open (as we often discussed) and catches 80 plus percent who is not used is presumably playing in a dynamic offense or for LaFleur/Rodgers it seems. Trade him or play him, but he’s been wasted thus far.

He also converted a high percentage of first downs either going out of bounds or in a crowd. How many tackles are you going to break in such circumstances? He’s shown he can make people miss if thrown to in space, which, as I’ve pointed out before, we saliently didn’t.

We don’t use him often, even less often on a catching route, and when we do it’s seldom one that he’s got much chance to take advantage of after the catch. Whose fault is that? I do believe we will find out very quickly now, but I don’t believe it’s the player.

I share your frustration with the pick/results as used, but in this case I have no issue with the player drafted nor the drafting. A GM should give his HC key pieces he wants for his offense. I quoted just some if LaFleur’s explanation of his reasons. When those pieces are subsequently not used in that role and that role vanishes then I do have questions.

In this case I think the answer is not Deguara. He’s done as much as he’s been asked in the role he fits and was picked for. That doesn’t include in line blocking and seldom should. Now we see if he gets a chance and what happens.

Pacing himself?
Or
Nowhere to go but up?

Every GM whiffs more than they hit on late rounders. A great many never make it to a roster. Sorry, historically, if a GM does find a gem or two who are serviceable in any phase, that’s a win. Anything more is a big win. I see you moving up into the mid rounds to support your statement. Again, hit and miss, historically, but MVS as your example of a failed 5th rounder pretty much trashed your case. Most would take that from the 5th in a heartbeat.

Well Madison obviously had in his life very tragic event that mess his brain and he was honest enough not to try to get anything out of that from Packers. We do not know if he would be bust or not. Moore get evaluation of many draftnik as second of Davante Adams. It was obvious mistake, but MVS and ESB was very good (MVS) or good (ESB) players considering where they were drafted (5 and 6 round).

You may call Enagbare player you do not want to start 17 games, but he did and did well for 5th round pick. Slaton showed promising development.

Btw, that MVS "bust" was the best Packers player in NFCCG vs Bucs and now has same number of SB rings as ACR. His only problem he had while he was playing with Packers was that he was to fast for ACR and regularly getting ball either behind him (like 80%) or far away in front of him (~15%) and rarely on target.

Players drafted on day 3 are rarely immediate contributors, they are in most cases development projects.

So, look at your rant and tell me how many day 3 drafted players are top starters in NFL in their first season.

Anyone can criticize anything, anytime they want. I choose to not go that way.

But the truth in the draft is there are always players that turn out way better then you anticipate and players that flop. It happens with every round, and every team.

This is essentially how the draft is supposed to work.
1st and 2nd round players are supposed to be stars/blue chip starters. 3rd and 4th rounds are more of the develop into starters. 5th are more backups/role players/hope to develop into starters. 6th and 7th rounds are typically geared towards backups, special teams, and developmental type of players. Sometimes you find the hidden gems in rounds 5-7. But typically the better players are in rounds 1-4. IMO, 4th round is a key round. The more starters you find in the 4th round or even 5th round, the better your team is.

The deeper in the draft you go the more chances you find more "busts" then hits. But later round players are more flawed then early round picks so you aren't expecting them to be starters from day one. For the record I don't really like using the word "bust". Its overused and loses its meaning.
You can say certain players were busts for GB. Brohm, Thronton, Spriggs, Josh Jones, Sternberger are some good examples of those. They were all 3rd round or higher.

Sean Rhyan is way to early to consider a bust. He didn't look good as a rookie, but that doesn't end his career.

Newman was fine as a rookie. But then this past training camp they were moving him around and it really messed him up. He played well overall late in the season when he had to play OT. He isn't a bust.

Tom was one of the best rookie OL in the league. He played 4 positions and I don't believe gave up a sack (I could be wrong on that). But he was very good.

Dobbs was becoming our number 1 WR until he got hurt.

MVS wasn't on the team due to poor management issues. They didn't have money. Doesn't mean MVS wasn't a good pic and a good player for GB. As a 5th round player you are not expecting him to be Randy Moss. If you are, your expectations need to be changed. To find a starting WR in the 5th round and a guy who made an impact on the roster, that was a great pick.

Gutey has control over the draft. He has hits and misses. Just like every other GM. With the way the structure is in GB you can't say its Gutey, Ball, or Murphy who has made the decisions regarding players and cap numbers. We know ball handles the financial stuff, but we don't know how it all works.