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Cory's Corner: Janis vs. Abbrederis for final WR spot

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Cory's Corner: Janis vs. Abbrederis for final WR spot

Wide receiver has always been a precarious position for the Packers.

And it’s going to continue next season.

Currently, the Packers have seven wideouts after recently taking Trevor Davis in the fifth round. I don’t see any way that the Packers will keep that many receivers — regardless of how well they are at multi-tasking as special teams players.

And we all know how much general manager Ted Thompson likes to cut draft picks — about as much as he likes to wax poetic on the dais.

So that means one thing: training camp is going to be a fight for a job between Jeff Janis and Jared Abbrederis.

That’s really hard for me to say, because there are things to like about both receivers. Janis proved himself as a special teams specialist in the mold of Steve Tasker before shocking everyone with 145 receiving yards and two Hail Mary’s in the NFC Divisional Playoff.

Abbrederis was given more chances during the season but his production was spotty because of injuries. He proved that he was on the same page as Aaron Rodgers and showcased that trust with pinpoint route running.

You could say that the easy answer to all of this is to just place Davis on the practice squad. However, the moment you put a guy that was timed in the 40-yard dash in the 4.3s, is the same moment that another team will swoop in and scoop him up.

Obviously, Davis must prove himself as a solid special teams player  — on kickoffs and returns — and he has to prove that he will be able to separate from press coverage. Because, mind-numbing speed doesn’t do a lot of good if it cannot get into the open field.

This is what it’s going to come down to: Rodgers’ trustworthiness of Janis vs. Abbrederis’ long-term health. Even if Janis has an impressive training camp, is it worth it to keep a guy that had a season-ticket to Rodgers’ doghouse? And Abberderis is a quality receiver, but let’s be honest. The amount of concussions and injuries are taking their toll and he has a much shorter shelf life than his other receiving peers.

The reason why this decision is so huge is because of Davante Adams. He had a forgettable year last season after dropping six passes and just looked lost at times. Adams will be given a mulligan to prove that last year was a fluke. But if Adams has a repeat performance, expect the Packers to make a move early.

Both Jordy Nelson and Ty Montgomery appear to be making great strides coming back from knee and ankle injuries, but depth is important on a team that throws it 60 percent of the time.

Plenty of people lobbied for Janis to play last year, but if his route running hasn’t been refined, I don’t see how you can keep him. And Abbrederis’ injury history isn’t just a momentary or tentative pause. He’s been hit very hard in his young career and a team must decide if it feels OK allowing him to get a life-threatening injury in a Packers uniform. An injury that could’ve easily been avoided.

Either way, Thompson and Mike McCarthy have some very difficult choices this summer. 

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a staff writer for Cheesehead TV. He can be found on Twitter @Coryjennerjohn

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (119) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

sheppercheeser's picture

I agree with this story- Abby is a home-town kid that runs great routes, but has health concerns. Janis is a beast on ST and has the body but is not as disciplined on routes i.e. doesn't have AR's confidence. Tough choice on who to keep!

Portland Mark's picture

I was at the SD game when Janis made his 46 yard catch and thought that would be a break out. It wasn't and the breakout game didn't come until the Cardinal playoff game. Think about it: AZ has a great defense and the Packers had only two healthy receivers. Janis still beat them with two long passes to tie the game. Getting rid of Janis would be stupid and TT isn't stupid. Now that the Packers will have a receivers coach I hope for better routes for Janis. His talent is undeniable. IMO he will likely become the 3rd receiver behind Cobb and Nelson this year. As he matures and Nelson gets older it would great to see him step into Nelson's shoes.

The TKstinator's picture

I like Abby.
But!
JJ has physical gifts that Abby will never have. He can LEARN to run better routes, etc, whereas Abby can't LEARN how to become taller and faster.
WILL JJ learn those things? Time will tell. It's up to JJ and the coaches.

Oppy's picture

The only thing is, sometimes guys -can't- learn to run better routes, etc.

The NFL is littered with the failed careers of physical specimens who just couldn't put it all together.

I'm not saying Janis won't.. Just cautioning that not everyone has the capacity to learn how to be a great football player, regardless of the physical gifts.

The TKstinator's picture

No argument there!

Nick Perry's picture

I think they keep 7 WR's. Last year they had 3 QB's and 2 FB's and it seems right now they'll keep 2 QB's and 1 FB so there could be 2 spots right there. For years they kept Bush around even though he couldn't play CB very well. With one FB you'd think the Packers might go heavy on TE but are there enough TE's on the Packers roster to go "Heavy" with? No!!

To choose between Abby and Janis is tough. Abby runs excellent routes, great hands, and Rodgers loves him but how long can he play, especially if he had another concussion (God Forbid)?
I listened to something on ESPN yesterday where Wilde was talking about Donald Driver and Janis. It took DD 4 years to break out but was kept because he'd show something in practice that made you HAVE to keep him around. Janis is kinda the same way, he's teased us for a few years then turns into a ST Demon and has the Playoff game he had against the Cardinals. Jordy Nelson broke out in SB45, his 3rd season.
Trust and believe those Scumbags wearing Purple are just waiting for the Packers to cut a WR. Keep 7!!!

RCPackerFan's picture

looks like you and I are on the same page again. I must have been typing mine below at the same time as you were.

I said the exact same thing about the 7 WR's. It is possible that they could keep 7.

Nelson and Cobb are locks. I think if all healthy, they will not get rid of Adams, Montgomery and Janis. That would come down to Abbrederis and Davis. Abbrederis, was really playing well late in the season, has Rodgers trust and can be a PR. Davis we won't know about until training camp.

Also it took Nelson 4 years to really break out. He did break out in the playoffs in his 3rd year, but his 4th year was when he really shined.

In the Packer system it takes most players 2-3 years to become the players they think they can be.

DrealynWilliams's picture

"In the Packer system it takes most players 2-3 years to become the players they think they can be."

So, why are there so many Davante Adams doubters? But never mind that.

7 WRs is tough to imagine on the Final 53. I can't see Davis beating out Janis or Abby right now. Ask yourself, "what is it about these 3 WRs (Janis, Abby and Davis) that's forcing me to create a roster spots for them?"

RCPackerFan's picture

'But never mind that.'
Yup, ignoring that part. I'm sure you will have enough comments on that part of it.

I'm not saying they will keep 7. I'm sure there will be injury issues that will help solve it.

I just am pointing out that 7 WR's is just a possibility. When so many are saying it won't happen, I'm just saying that it could.

I will take the 6th and 7th WR over any of the 4th TE's. And probably over the 10th OL.
Janis, Abbrederis and Davis all can help on special teams.

Nick Perry's picture

Or RC remember the 3 FB's in 2010 or how many TE's in 2011 or 2012? 10 O-Lineman is excessive, 8 or 9 is the norm depending on the team. Do the Packers even have 10 O-Lineman worth keeping? The Packers also keep fewer D-Lineman than most teams but more LB'ers. I don't see the keeping 3 QB's this year or 2 FB's unless the bring back Kuhn.

You're right, Janis is already the best gunner they have so if the Arizona game was nothing more than an anomoly at WR he's the next Bush, just at a different position used only in emergency at his position.

RCPackerFan's picture

Yeah, exactly. 3 FB's, another one they kept 5 TE's. and 4 TE's a couple of years.

I don't think they keep 10 OL. Last year they kept 9 and most people were questioning that.
Right now if they kept 10 that would likely be the starting 5 + Spriggs, Tretter, Murphy, Taylor, and either Rotheram or Walker or Barclay.
So they could do it, I just have a hard time seeing them do it.

Tundraboy's picture

Sounds like the first 9 OL you mentioned That would mean this years picks are better than Walker and Barclay. Rotherham, who knows? have not seen him play but hope he has developed.

RCPackerFan's picture

One interesting side not about Rotherham. They are having him learn to play Center. Just kind of an interesting thing with him. Looking ahead, maybe they are planning on him being the top backup at Guard and Center?

croatpackfan's picture

Janis is ST specialist, Abby is proffered Aaron's target and Davis is just very fast young man who played in simple offensive system and who needs to learn how to run routes... If teams did not take Jeff janis from PS, why should they take Trevor Davis? They both had same record, plus Jeff is stronger...

DrealynWilliams's picture

@RC I know what you meant. It's just hard to see 7 WRs on the final 53. I'm not saying it won't happen nor am I hoping it won't happen. I just don't see how a 7th WR will offer much help this season. I'd rather have 2 FBs vs a 7th WR.

@Dobber

Right on (in response to the Janis comparison) . This is the reason I asked the question I did regarding Davis' contract. I don't dig into contracts and all of that, but would it be shocking if Davis was the off man out at the end of Pre-Season even after signing a 4-year contract? On top of that, Davis has the option of declining any team coming to sign him off the Practice Squad, right?

D.D. Driver's picture

This all assumes that the Packers make it through training camp without one of the seven getting injured.

Ibleedgreenmore's picture

And lets think what happened last year, we had 4 guys at least get hurt some were out a good amount of the year.

RCPackerFan's picture

I really don't get why its Abbrederis vs Janis for 1 roster spot. I get the premise of it, but why is it automatically 1 of these 2 will be off the roster?

I do see a way in which the Packers keep 7 WR's. Is it going to happen, probably not. But can it happen? yes.

Here is how. Last year the Packers kept 3 QB's, 5 RB's, 5 WR's, 3 TE's, 9 OL on the 53 to start the season.
They won't be keeping 3 QB's this year, and odds are they will only keep 4 RB's. They will likely keep 9 OL again, and could only keep 3 TE's again. That leaves 2 open spots. on offense.

Again, I'm not saying they will keep 7, just saying its not out of the realm of possibilities.

But the part I really don't get is why is it automatically Abbrederis vs Janis? First we have no idea how Nelson and Montgomery are going to come back from their injuries. Nelson sounds like he is ready to go but Montgomery isn't going to be ready until training camp. What if he has a set back? There is a chance that he would start the season on the PUP list.

The position will be sorted out during training camp and in the preseason. Injuries will help settle it. Lets not just write off someone because of numbers at the position.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

RC: I agree on all counts except keeping 9 OL. They will keep 10, I think, (maybe!). 7 - Bakh, Sitton, Linsley, Lang, Bulaga, Tretter, Spriggs - are locks. Taylor and his $600K dead money is a good bet to be the 8th. OT Murphy as a draft choice is likely to be the ninth. I feel that at least one of Walker or Rotherham is also likely. But if Walker and Rotherham fall flat on their faces, or even Murphy, 9 is definitely possible.

MarkinMadison's picture

I think they could get away with putting Murphy on the PS this year.

RCPackerFan's picture

They might be able to. I am guessing though since they drafted him, even if he is the last OL, they will keep him on the 53. Much like Taylor a couple of years ago. They like to keep 1 OL on the roster that doesn't necessarily belong.

marpag1's picture

I'm not sure if I'm getting your point or not, but Lane Taylor came in as an undrafted free agent, not a draft pick.

RCPackerFan's picture

No, I wasn't saying he was a drafted player. Just saying they kept him on the 53 to basically be a player in the future. They didn't want to risk losing him, so they stored him on the 53 even though he wasn't ready to play.

RCPackerFan's picture

I can definitely see them keeping 10 OL. Especially with 4 OL going to be free agents next year.

If they keep 10 it will come down to Walker and Rotherham. Rotherham is also learning to play Center so don't sleep on him.

Just for the numbers, I was pointing out that it is possible that they keep 7 WR's. Not saying they will, just saying its possible.

dobber's picture

"Just for the numbers, I was pointing out that it is possible that they keep 7 WR's. Not saying they will, just saying its possible."

It's possible, but I think those "flexible" roster spots get moved to positions that are threatened by FA after the season (assuming there are reasonable keepers there). If they think that Murphy has a future with the team, even if it's not going to be reflectedin pt now, they don't expose him on the PS. I think 10 roster spots to the OL is almost a given. Then, honestly, I think they'll make moves to provide numbers for the DL and LBs. 7 WR would be a significant luxury. I don't think they will play the "if we cut X, competing team Y might pick him up" game. They'll do what's best for the immediate and long-term health of the team.

RCPackerFan's picture

Wasn't last year keeping 2 FB's a luxury? Years ago they kept 3 FB's. A few years ago they kept 5 TE's. I don't think keeping 7 WR's is really that much bigger of a luxury then what they have kept in the past. If those 7 WR's are the better players then a 4th TE, or 10th OL, I can definitely see them keeping them.

If all 7 are healthy they have 2 that can also play RB. That eliminates the need to keep more then 4 RB's. They have Janis a great special teams player, but also they have Montgomery, Abbrederis and maybe Davis that can return Punts. Montgomery, Janis, Davis all can return kicks.

I agree that they will keep more OL, but realistically I can see them keeping 9. Maybe 10, but 9 for sure.

DrealynWilliams's picture

It will come down to Davis' play making abilities on Offense and/or ST. The years we had extra FBs or TEs those guys brought something unique to the team.

MM uses TEs on both ST, as WRs and as H-Backs. The same for FBs (although I hope to never see a FB split out wide). How versatile will Davis be? That will be key in deciding to keep 7 WRs.

RCPackerFan's picture

Special teams will be key for him. Though I think he will have to be absolutely horrible for Thompson to cut him. Thompson doesn't cut very many draft picks.

DrealynWilliams's picture

As difficult as it might be for TT to cut draft picks it should be as difficult for MM to go against a player who knows the system, steadily progressing and is proven (somewhat).

We did cut Abby before...

RCPackerFan's picture

Yeah, i'm not saying that won't happen again.

Abbrederis was cut after his 2nd year. His first year he was put on IR.

Abbrederis was cut last year because he was out basically all of training camp.

Bear's picture

1 or both spots could go to to the defense......can't assume both would go to the offense.

DrealynWilliams's picture

I agree. We have a few potential DB gems.

Evan's picture

I can't believe this horse corpse is being dragged out.

These things tend to work themselves out rather painlessly.

MarkinMadison's picture

Or with pain for a player. Abby's first season was derailed in training camp. The new guy is faster, but no beefier. No injury history that I know of, but who knows. Jordy and Monty both coming off of injuries. Odds are they are fine, but sometimes injuries have a chain reaction. If all stay healthy given the lack of depth at TE this could still turn into a 4th TE v. 7th WR deal. Maybe we'll see the return of the 4 WR sets this year.

Razer's picture

... horse corpse... too funny.

There is a lot of idle time between now and when football really starts up. And, you are right about things working themselves out. No guarantee that Ty Montgomery is ready to go or someone goes down with a 'knee injury' or Trevor Davis is too light to play anything other than PS. 7 can become 6 in a blink.

The TKstinator's picture

"Horse Corpse": I think I have next season's fantasy football team name. Thank you!

dobber's picture

I was going to go with "Red-headed Stepchild", myself...

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Maybe they keep both. Maybe when we see the WRs play the decision will be easier. I have heard nothing terribly promising about Montgomery's rehab, just that he should be back in July for TC. Nelson sounds like he is well ahead of schedule. Roster minimums, [likely] (Max):
QB: 2 [2] (2)
RB: 3 [3] (3)
FB: 1 [1] (2?)
TE: 3 [3] (4?)
OL: 8 [10] (10?)
WR: 5 [6] (7?)
22 (27 or 28)

Figure 24 or 25 roster spots on offense. Minimum is 22, my likely is 25, and my maximum is 28. If TT wants an extra FB, or TE, or OLs, or WR, difficulties develop. Remember, teams can put a players IR and later decide which one player they want designated to return. Just one player per season can be brought back to the 53 man roster.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I agree with Evan - this will likely sort itself out.

Here is a link to UDFA signings. TT guaranteed $11K so far (a not unusual amount). Philadelphia gave OG Darrell Greene as an UDFA a $5,000 signing bonus and also guaranteed $100K in base salary and gave another player $95K in guaranteed money. Wow! That is a giant loophole in the rule that limits clubs to paying no more than $80K in signing bonuses to UDFAs. As a note, Josh Ferguson, a RB I liked, got $35K from Indy, and OT Leonard Webster got $35K from TB.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/undrafted-free-agents/green-bay-packers/

Packer_Pete's picture

I don't think they could possibly keep 7. Janis is almost a lock to me with his ST play. No matter what, WR #5 will have to play ST. If they keep a 6th WR, that one has to play ST also. to me, Jordy, Cobb, Monty, and Davis are locks (since Ted rarely gives up on draft picks in the first year). Janis is a lock on ST. That already is 5. So it comes down to Adams vs Abbrederis. You all know my opinion, but neither one plays ST.

I think they'll keep at least 9 OL, if not 10. After last year's debacle, it'd be better to have big men up front, and enough who can play if needed. It will be easier to get a veteran WR in an emergency situation than a OL who can play. Just sayin...

gr7070's picture

I think you're largely correct on your approach to the WR "depth chart", with the exception that a 5th round draft pick is not quite the lock you state.

To me Adams is the big question mark and has a very legitimate chance of being cut. He was bad his first season, and historically bad his second.

Whereas Montgomery was quite good his first season and Janis oozes potential and already provides a lot of ST value.

That leave Adams and or Abrederis as the potential odd men out. Adams would not shock me in the slightest.

Evan's picture

"Adams...was bad his first season...Whereas Montgomery was quite good his first season..."

I'm curious what you're basing this on.

Adams in 2014: 16 games, 38 rec, 446 yards, 11.7 ypc, 3 TDs, (per game average, 2.4 rec for 27.9 yards).

Monty in 2015: 6 games, 15 rec, 136 yards, 9.1 ypc, 2 TDs (per game average, 2.5 rec, 22.7 yards)

So, discounting health because shit happens, on a YPC and YPG basis, Adams was better.

So why was Adams "bad" his rookie year while Monty was "quite good"?

(Don't get me wrong, I'm super high on Monty, but I think those shoveling dirt on Adams are more than a little silly.)

Barring injury, Adams is making this team.

EDIT: Forget "barring injury." Adams is making this team (if he gets hurt, he'll go on IR).

gr7070's picture

Yards and receptions don't mean that much, they're very dependent upon other things that are not necessarily driven by a players abilities.

I'm using players ratings on Football Outsiders, and especially looking at the rate stats as opposed to the cumulative stats for those guys who don't get a ton of playing time early.

Evan's picture

Can you share those stats?

Handsback's picture

It seems way too early to discuss which players make the squad. As someone posted, these things sort themselves out with injuries and roster cuts.
If this is a discussion on the merits between Janis and Abby then opinions and discussion could last until training camp.
I don't think Green Bay this year will see the same number of injuries they did last year in the WR corp. If they do...it would appear that there's enough depth to overcome it.

justabob's picture

As always preseason injuries will play a role. I hear much talk of abri being a Rogers favorite but he still could not get on the field so how much of a favorite is he? There is another wild card this year in that they have a dedicated receivers coach. I cant take to much into that given the coaches background but there will be differences.
If you consider the application of the different players who are the competing against for spots? I mean what do they offer? Janis is the closest to offer a little of Jordy. Adams offers some of Greg Jennings style. Cobb Ty and Abri are all similar with small differences. The new guy is a totally new skill set. in the end if Adams has another underwear league MVP it really make Abri the odd man out.
I can see them taking the second fullback slot from last year and having 7. most likely that will be used for OL to ensure depth because of contract years. I have seen TT do this before. TE is also a MM favorite so if there is comparative quality between last men standing expect the swing, but I don't see that yet.
as far as returners go, The packers have a ton of slightly better then average but not great return men so I dont expect that to factor into a deciding factor. As gunner Abri is slow has not been used I think.
still the odd man out. another Packer with loads of potential unmet, could be difference maker on another team.
If Rogers has a fault its that he is too loyal, meaning that he would never make a good GM. he could never release a player until its too late or beyond too late. His value and friendship could also skew the selection results.
At this time of year there are just too many variables and unknowns to start thinking about rosters. sit back and enjoy the process you will live longer by avoiding the stress.

Tarynfor12's picture

Last week on Bill Michaels they talked about how much return yardage the Packers special teams didn't give up and how much it helped due to Janis. Many may squawk about his route running but unless he can be replaced to equal or better on special teams and his obvious big play ability he isn't going anywhere and certainly not at the hands or health of Abberderis.

dobber's picture

^^^THIS^^^

Especially with Goodson, a decent gunner in his own right, on the shelf for four weeks. How many years of "benefit of the doubt" did Jarrett Bush--virtually unplayable at DB--earn due to his outstanding special teams play?

RCPackerFan's picture

Janis' special teams ability and WR development is why he will be on the 53 man roster.

lucky953's picture

Agree completely. Janis prevents big plays as a gunner. More impact than Jarret Bush had--and look how long they kept Bush because of STs. If Janis just keeps showing them the work ethic to improve, he's a lock in my book.

tm_inter's picture

I don't see how the Packers can cut Jeff Janis, judging from his special team performance and his last game performance, unless Janice became a real pain in the neck for the coaches and Aaron Rodgers.

Davante Adams won't be cut in the pre-season simply because he was a 2nd round draft pick.

Jared Abbrederis might not last long in the nfl because of his history of concussions. If the Packers can't find ways to keep 7 wide-receivers, he's the one to go in my opinion.

dobber's picture

I tend to agree on Adams, but the Packers weren't afraid to cut ties with day 2 picks like Khyri Thornton or Jerel Worthy when the writing was on the wall. A horrid camp could mean the end of Adams. Of the "healthy" WR returning, he'll be under the microscope more than anyone else through OTAs and camp.

EdsLaces's picture

How many years is it gonna take for Janis to learn his route tree?

PackerBackerB's picture

I'd say that Abby is the most likely to be resigned to the practice squad if cut.

dobber's picture

Does he have any PS eligibility left? I'm not sure how much he's been active...

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/8/29/6077941/nfl-practice-squad-rules-e...

olwig420's picture

If we look at their history, the last two years in training camp JJ always has a lot of work to do to get caught up and Abby is always praised at his hard work and abilities. I don't see things changing. I say if one of the two make the roster it will be Abby. He is just worth more to the team when healthy.

gr7070's picture

I couldn't disagree more with the last two sentences.

With all his "work ethic" Abrederis just doesn't provide the value on the field. His advanced analytics aren't good at the moment, and he's not too likely to improve greatly.

Janis' analytics are already better than Abrederis and he has huge potential for improvement.

And that's not even mentioning the great value he brings to special teams.

dobber's picture

"Janis' analytics are already better than Abrederis and he has huge potential for improvement."

I agree: Janis, based on his physical talents, has a ceiling that's sky-high...but the analytics aren't measuring what's between his ears, so we really don't know what his potential for improvement really is. Some say he's the second coming of Bill Schroeder. Others think he'll eventually supplant Jordy Nelson. I'd love the latter to be true.

William Weslow's picture

Trevor Davis will make the team and be the surprise boost we all are looking for....speed kills...him and Janis out wide, Jordy in the slot along with Cook at TE and Cobby coming out of the backfield....try to defend that

RCPackerFan's picture

Yeah, Nick and I were going over the possibilities of this offense yesterday. The different formations and options they have.

If everyone is healthy, you can have Nelson/Janis outside, Cobb, Abbrederis in the slot with Montgomery in the backfield. Or Nelson/Adams outside, Cobb, Cook in the slot, with Montgomery in the backfield. Or go with big targets and have Nelson, Janis, Cook, Rodgers, and Cobb/Montgomery all together. If they want more speed they could go with Janis/Davis outside, Nelson/Cobb in the slot, and Montgomery in the backfield.

If everyone is healthy, this offense could be very, very dangerous.

gr7070's picture

Defensive coordinators and DBs yawn when Adams steps into the field.

dobber's picture

The more speed you put on the field, the more likely the defense will be to get smaller and faster. If Lacy can show he's back to form, he should feast on that kind of scenario, too.

I like the occasional WR coming out of the backfield, but more than a couple snaps per game exposes them to a pounding (from DL and LB) that would be counterproductive.

RCPackerFan's picture

Excellent point.

I just think the flexibility that Cobb and Montgomery gives this offense, really is what can make it dangerous. But yes, lets not forget about Lacy.

DrealynWilliams's picture

We're on the same page with this one. I remember in the 49ers game when the Offense went stale (early in the 1st half, I believe) MM went with the Cobra formation much quicker than he usually does. It was Cobb and then Montgomery. I loved it.

DrealynWilliams's picture

Good job on the article. I seen this one coming. This should produce another hot comment thread.

Now, let's read through some of the's comments.

cuervo's picture

Many of you are making this too hard. You can find receivers like Abby all over the NFL scrap heap. He can be a solid contributor, but that's it. He'll never be a #2 or #3 receiver in GB (maybe in Minnesota).

Janis on the other hand does one thing that NFL teams crave....he makes plays when given opportunities..period. That is a coveted skill, that if GB doesn't want, he'll have no problem getting signed elsewhere.

Time for Mr. Rodgers to get off his high horse, he's already proven that talent discovery is not his forte (see Davonte-preseason mvp). I don't give a shit if Rodgers doesn't like someone...if they're better than others on the roster...get over it.

gr7070's picture

I wholly agree with the first two paragraphs. Talent wins out and Janis has the talent.

I actually think way, way too much is made of the BS that Rodgers has to trust his receivers in order to look their way. I think this is a story line/meme largely created to match what people perceive.

While he'll certainly let it be known when they miss an assignment, at the end of a play his ball is going to whoever happens to be open that play. I think it matters little what name is on their back.

I think McCarthy is the one with the bigger issue with trust and who gets *on* the field.

dobber's picture

"I think McCarthy is the one with the bigger issue with trust and who gets *on* the field."

McCarthy is also the guy who sees what's going on behind closed doors in practice. We don't. Sure, there are guys out there who are gamers and don't always show well middle of the week, but if a younger guy isn't showing it there, how is a coach going to believe he's going to show it on Sunday?

RCPackerFan's picture

I agree with that.

But at the same time, McCarthy has to better job of finding ways to use each players talents. And limit their weaknesses.

For example we saw in the last game on the final 2 plays of offense that Janis could be a guy to stretch the field. Why did it take till the last 2 plays in desperation mode to throw a deep ball to Janis? Why didn't they try it more?
And why was the Richard Rodgers to the flat still a play in the playbook by the end of the year. I think they could have put Tretter out there and he would have got more yards then Rodgers on those plays.

Tundraboy's picture

Right about Tretter

RCPackerFan's picture

I think Rodgers is fine to run routes over the middle. Its where he should have been used. His best game was against Detroit in the Hail Mary game. Before the Hail Mary he was making plays down the middle of the field. They finally figured out how to use him, or at least in that 1 game. They never really used him like he was used in that game the rest of the season.
For Rodgers and routes, basically anything with him running away from the line of scrimmage he is 'ok' with. Anything where he is running parallel with the LOS is where he fails miserably.

My hope is that with the Signing of Cook, Rodgers will have lost a few lbs. When he played in college he played at a lot lighter of a weight, and he was quicker. I think much like Lacy, Rodgers has to many lbs and doesn't have quick enough feet. If Rodgers were to lose some lbs he would regain some of his quickness which would help him break a few of those tackles.

I think Rodgers can be effective, if used the right way. He is a good redzone target, and a guy to catch passes over the middle of the field. Just can't expect him to make the types of plays that Finley used to make.

EddieLee's picture

About Adams - was there a guy more frustrating then Adams last year? He looked lost half the time. But, it seemed most of the Packer passing offense last year was a f'ing scramble drill and Adams was just horrid at it. I expect the offense to come back to regular form this year and I think that helps Adams become more consistent. He just has the size/talent to get open as a #3 WR in a regular order MM/Rodgers offense.

If the 53 roster decisions were at 4pm today? Janis makes this team well ahead of Abbey. Not even close. The last WR to make the 53 has to have upside, health and ST acumen.

gr7070's picture

I would love to be wrong about Adams and have another 2nd round WR turn into Jordy and Cobb.

I just don't see it happening.

Montgomery already looked very good when he played. I'm very encouraged and can't wait to see him play this year. He could become very good.

croatpackfan's picture

All together, I may agree with you that Ted Thompson do not like to cut his draft pick! Jared Abbrederis 5th rounder, Travor Davis 6th rounder and Jeff Janis 7th rounder....
"However, the moment you put a guy that was timed in the 40-yard dash in the 4.3s, is the same moment that another team will swoop in and scoop him up." This is very truthful statement. Proved how other teams scoop Jeff Janis (40, 4.3sec) several times during his time on PS....
Travor Davis - it was written that he was playing in very simple offense, so he might have some problem with learning how to run routes. If that is truth, I can foresee him on PS...
Regarding Jared Abbrederis concussion number. During college he had 2 (TWO) registered concussions. What large number of concussions you are talking about?

Evan's picture

"However, the moment you put a guy that was timed in the 40-yard dash in the 4.3s, is the same moment that another team will swoop in and scoop him up."

Then explain how he lasted till the 5th round?

DrealynWilliams's picture

*high five*

marpag1's picture

Oh, my... well, this is all very serious! If all this nervous hand-wringing is going to keep anyone awake at night, allow me to paraphrase and clarify the most important part of this debate:

When people talk about TT's "2016 fifth round draft pick, that speed-demon Trevor Davis" ... what they really mean to say is ... "that whats-his-name guy who is just a tick slower than TT's 2007 fifth round draft pick, David Clowney."

How 'bout we hold off on trying to figure out which inferior player Davis is going to deprive of a job, or how we are going to make room for seven wide receivers?

ballark's picture

WHY -- AFTER THE CARDINALS GAME WHEN HE SET FRANCHISE RECORDS -- ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT JANIS AS A FRINGE GUY AND NOT A POTENTIAL WEEK 1 STARTER AHEAD OF ADAMS AND MONTGOMERY?

marpag1's picture

Well.... I'll agree that Janis should not be written off, but you gotta admit that catching 2 unbelievable and poorly defended 50-yard heaves in the final minute of one game doesn't necessarily mean that suddenly he's starter material. Those two receptions alone were more receiving yards than Janis had in the 2014 and 2015 regular seasons combined.

al bundy's picture

Your talking mental mike being in charge and mental mike plays favorites. Adams has a solid spot for sure because of his high draft status. end of story

ray nichkee's picture

At least mental means cerebral, intellectual, etc, something you don't possess.

Yooper's picture

Janis is a beast. He worked his but off on special teams and had to set the bench - week after week when the poorest recieving corp in the NFL couldn't break free from man to man coverage and catch a football. Then we get to the play offs and he - single handedly has one of the greatest football games for a wide reciever ever and now..... your talking about him ...maybe not making the team - The kindest thing I can say to people that think like you is - find a new sport - you obviously don't know football!!!

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Try not to be a jerk.

Oppy's picture

There's no guarantee Ty Montgomery has a spot.

Hell, there's no guarantee Adams has a spot, either.

The only "locks" are Nelson and Cobb.. ALthough I'd suspect Adams is a step higher in the pecking order than Ty, Jeff, Jared and the rest.

ballark's picture

Strip away the draft position, contract, and expectations and look only at the tape. Look only at the play on the field, and that raises a lot of questions for Adams. I root for Adams, I really do. I want him to be a superstar. But at times I wonder how great HE wants to be. Does he have the focus, the determination, the grit? I don't know.

People can write off Janis' two catches in the Cardinals game as long/fluke plays. But heck, isn't that what a lot of football is?? As a WR you go up and you get that fucking ball. Randy Moss made a hall of fame career out of that. He wasn't the fastest guy on the field, but he wanted that ball more than anyone.

Oppy's picture

Adams had a poor season last year, that's true. I think it was a case of just not being ready for the spotlight. That said, there is plenty of "good" film on Adams as well. There's a reason Rodgers was excited about him going into last season. I'm still quite hopeful he's going to be pretty special.

Actually, Moss usually WAS the fastest guy on the field, and the biggest knock on Moss was that he didn't ALWAYS want the ball more than anyone else.. But when he DID, yeah, you're right- he went up and got it.

4thand1's picture

A post for the ages. This will get a lot of comments for sure. This debate started last year and now just got a can of gas thrown on the fire. They cut Jones and drafted a young fast guy. Janis is fast too and the need for speed was evident last year. Janis will be on the team, as for the the rest, it'll get sorted out by the last cuts. Between Jordy, Cobb, and the rest...................someone will be wide open. Also teams will have to respect the seam with Cooks. This is gonna be fun, cant wait!

WinUSA's picture

The thought of these two receiver vying for the last receiver spot shows that there isn't too much material to write about at this time of the year...

....anything about the Packers is sucked up by Packer fans in their withdrawals from the season ending and the first kick off of pre season...we can never get enough.

But honestly.... the thought of cutting Abbederis is as popular with Packer fans as a prophylactic dispenser at the Vatican would be appreciated by the Pope!!!

Nononsense's picture

Jet Janis is not going to be cut, lets just stop that talk right now. Its not gonna happen. He might be our best STs player with his work as a gunner and as a KR, not to mention what he proved capable of in the playoffs at WR. I cant even believe this is still a topic of discussion.

Stop the insanity.

Tundraboy's picture

That was my first reaction to this article.

Point Packer's picture

Jeff Janis steps onto the field, the D has to defend against his speed.

Davante Adams steps onto the field, the D laughs and wonders how that guy is still in the NFL.

Point Packer's picture

Saw more from Jeff Janis in one game then I've seen from Davante Adams in two seasons.

If Jeff Janis can't run a route, then neither can Davante.

Only difference between the two is that #12 likes one and not the other. That's it. Well, that's note true, Janis can play special teams. Adams would be a bumbling idiot on kick coverage.

Evan's picture

Adams in the Pats and Cowboys games in 2014 > Janis in the Cards game in 2015.

While awesome, I don't put a ton of stock into catching two Hail Marys. That's playing 500, not wide receiver.

RCPackerFan's picture

Something to remember with Janis too though, is all the plays he has showed he can make in the preseason. He has shown he has the ability's just has to do it with Rodgers. He also added 2 great plays in the San Diego game early in the season and wasn't used after that.

But yes, in the regular season, Adams has made more plays for sure.

My question. Can't we be excited to have both players? And think we could have 2 really good players playing for us this year?

DrealynWilliams's picture

I am. If healthy, of course, Rodgers and that WR corps should break records.

al bundy's picture

My gutt has always felt Rogers does not like Janis. If I had to guess why, I still say Janis is too dumb to learn the play book runs the wrong routes and drives Rogers nuts to the point he is on the bench as a fill in only.

ray nichkee's picture

My gut, which is not as big as to be designated a gutt tells me you lack the intellectuall content in the cerebral portion of your brain to post a comment without coming across as a complete and total douchebag without the ability to realize you are doing so. Maybe you just suck. IDK

4thand1's picture

you know ray, he pretty much sucks.

ray nichkee's picture

I agree with or respect most opinion here but it sucks when you have to say you suck.

Point Packer's picture

Ask yourself this: Does Davante Adams catch that Hail Mary if he is in the exact same position as Janis on that throw?

You're lying to yourself if you even think he gets two hands on the ball.

And yet, this is the debate. Ridiculous.

Dump Davante 2016!

DrealynWilliams's picture

We get it...

William Weslow's picture

completely agree...the guy had a great game against the Cowboys, granted but then a few and far between memorable plays.
I say that TREVOR DAVIS WILL BE THE SUPRISE GUY this season

Tundraboy's picture

I'll take Janis and his upside if I had to pick one but I'd rather have both.

marpag1's picture

First of all, the whole idea that Trevor Davis has somehow already squeezed out either Janis or Abbrederis is insane. But just for argument, let's assume that this crazy assumption is certainly true.

There seems to be a perception "out there" that Janis didn't get as much of an opportunity to shine as Abby did. More than that, there also seems to be a perception that once he got his chance, Janis outperformed Abby and was more productive. Neither of those assumptions are very defensible.

Janis played 131 offensive snaps. Abbrederis played 99. In other words, Janis had 30% more opportunity.

ON A PER SNAP BASIS... who gained more yards per snap? Abby (1.81 yards per snap vs. 1.71)

Who had more first downs per snap? Abby (9% of snaps vs. 5.3%)

Who had more receptions per snap? Abby (15% of snaps vs. 6.9%)

Who had more targets per snap? Abby (32.3% vs. 17.6%)

Who converted more targets into receptions? Abby (46.8% of targets vs. 39.1%)

Who had fewer drops? Abby (0% vs. 8.3%)

I am definitely NOT saying that Abby is a stud. Neither player has shown much AS A RECEIVER. But right now, Janis would have a better shot of making the team. . At least there is one thing that Janis can clearly do well, and that's play special teams.

DrealynWilliams's picture

Niiiice.

I agree with your 1st paragraph. Well, I wouldn't call it insane, but I get where you're going with it. I wonder if it's the contract (length) that he signed, draft status (5th round), or just his speed that has people assuming he's a lock.

Good job on the stats too. Are those your own calculations or did they come from a site?

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I'd say it is mostly draft status, but after watching 3 Cal games one can see some positive attributes, and some negatives, too. TT has made 17 fifth round selections. I don't think any were cut outright before their rookie regular season began; maybe one or two were released and put on the PS. [I really don't remember what exactly happened with David Clowney, for example.] But I get your point, Marpag.

marpag1's picture

The "big name" - cough, cough - is Cory Rodgers. TT drafted him in the FOURTH round in 2006, presumably to be a punt returner. TT cut him at the end of camp and didn't even try to sign him to the PS. Nobody else signed him, either. He played a year or two in Canada. Rodgers is the highest TT draft pick that did not remain with the team in at least some capacity during the rookie year

There were a couple others who got dumped outright, but they were lower picks. Admittedly, they were very few. Ricky Elmore is one. Clark Harris was signed to the practice squad, but then cut from the PS BY THE PACKERS a week or so later. A few guys went to IR, and then were cut.

TT did put Clowney (a D5 guy) on the PS, but the Jets inexplicably signed him to their roster. He spent most of that first year injured. The Jets kept him around for something like three more years, even though he never did anything.

One of the things that people need to remember about PS rules is that if a team wants to sign one of your PS guys, they need to carry him ON THE ACTIVE ROSTER. That makes it a LOT tougher for another team to pull the trigger. And if a guy got on to the practice squad in the first place, it means that no other team wanted to claim him off waivers during the window in between the cut and the PS signing.

Here's an interesting bit from Wes Hodkiewicz: Excluding last year's draft here are the guys during TT's reign that never played a down for the Pack (listed by draft round). Most of these were PS guys, of course, and some went on to have careers with other teams:

2nd round, 56th overall: QB Brian Brohm (2008)
3, 85: DL Khyri Thornton (2014)
4, 104: WR Cory Rodgers (2006)
4, 121: LB Carl Bradford (2014)
5, 157: WR David Clowney (2007)
5, 162: OT Jamon Meredith (2009)
6, 179: OG Caleb Schlauderaff (2011)
6, 195: WR Craig Bragg (2005)
6, 197: OLB Ricky Elmore (2011)
7, 216: WR Charles Johnson (2013)
7, 233: DE Lawrence Guy (2011)
7, 241: T Andrew Datko (2012)
7, 243: QB B.J. Coleman (2012)
7, 243: TE Clark Harris (2007)
7, 245: LB Kurt Campbell (2005)
7, 253: DE Dave Tollefson (2006)

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

You have an excellent memory, and good research skills. Kudos! I conclude that it is uncommon for TT to cut a 4th or 5th round pick, but not unheard of. That is an interesting list.

Teams that claim a player off waivers at the end of preseason do have to carry that player on their 53-man roster, but it is only for 3 weeks. However, that is still a significant period of time, and I suspect it largely eliminates putting a waiver claim in on a player the team doesn't really want just to harm the original team that hoped to sneak the player onto its PS.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2012/9/1/3284495/waivers-the-practice-squad...

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2015/9/7/9271679/2015-nfl-practice-squa...

DrealynWilliams's picture

You're the real MVP @marpag

idgafkurt's picture

Janis is a major reason Matshay set a team record of Net Punt Avg last year. His elite "Gunner" skill set alone earns him a roster spot. Therefore, there is no way they cut him for JAG's like Abby, Adams, Davis or Montgomery.

IMO, they keep 6 WR's: Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis and Abby. Davis gets sent to the PS.

Nevertheless, roster debates this early are nearly irrelevant as injuries & pre-season production will surely play a part.

al bundy's picture

Cut Adams. He is worthless and I have a hunch Monty will be gone too. Sounds like Franklin, way to frail to play in the NFL.

al bundy's picture

Abby is one concussion away from being a
Jeff Dunham dummy. This guy was always hurt in college, mostly bad concussions costing a lot of playing time. So obviously he would be the one we keep. Bye Janis

marpag1's picture

"This guy was always hurt in college, mostly bad concussions costing a lot of playing time."

In 2010 Abbrederis played in 13 out of 13 games.
In 2011 Abbrederis played in 14 out of 14 games.
In 2012 Abbrederis played in 13 out of 14 games.
In 2013 Abbrederis played in 13 out of 13 games.
In his entire college career, Abbrederis played in 53 out of 54 games.

Stop talking out of your ass.

DrealynWilliams's picture

Ohhh this is good.

PETER MAIZ's picture

Janis is great on special teams but he's got to refine his root tree. Abby is one concussion away from scaring the team doctor to death. I think Janis wins out. Davis will work out under a lot of coaching to bring him out to the NFL level.
Now if Janis' problem is understanding the playbook per se, he may be gone. I think Rodgers was frustrated with Janis because he couldn't understand the basics at meetings. Maybe Jordy could help Janis "see the light". Whatever happens, have faith that Green Bay is returning to a top 5 offense!!!!!

Oppy's picture

Scouting reports claim Davis has plently of straight line speed, but zero cutting quickness.

I hope he works out, they say he's got great hands.

HOWEVER..

all the talk last year about not being able to get separation? You better have some spring in and out of your cuts.

DrealynWilliams's picture

I'm sorry -- I can't help it.

https://youtu.be/TyGmuZlVEaM?t=38m9s

The more I watch...the more I ask myself..."how is this Janis' fault?"

Put some air on that thang, Aaron.

Janis should have had at least 4 TDs that game.

4EVER's picture

Thank You...! I didn't want to be the first...And more preciously, by my account, upon closer review, the corner sat on the route, and Janis took the correct route to the corner. The throw to the out had interception all over it if it were not for Bethel's grab hesitation on Janis's move to the corner.

DrealynWilliams's picture

Yea, that CB was all over that one.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd swear Rodgers didn't want Janis to be the new hero. Playoff game on the road against the #1 NFC team, the #1 defense, coming into the game with only 2 receptions for the season.

https://youtu.be/TyGmuZlVEaM?t=2h7s

https://youtu.be/TyGmuZlVEaM?t=2h55s

Can't get no more open than those back-to-back plays. He also got behind the Defense twice but the ball was badly under thrown and the other was over thrown (out of bounds...past the goal post).

But this is old news. On to a new season. I don't want people here to take this as an Aaron Rodgers bash.

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