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Cory's Corner: Gutekunst Is Stamping Out Complacency

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Cory's Corner: Gutekunst Is Stamping Out Complacency

The offseason has been a whirlwind for the Packers.

Clay Matthews. Randall Cobb. Nick Perry. Kentrell Brice. Those guys were all starters last year and now they are all gone. For good measure, I could even add Ha Ha Clinton-Dix to that list, who was traded on Oct. 30. 

General manager Brian Gutekunst is putting his thumbprint on this team. And I really like what I see. What’s the most important thing when putting together an NFL roster? That’s easy, you cannot hold on to a guy too long. It not only affects your salary cap, but it also stunts your growth by not replacing a player with one that could offer more production. 

The one thing that was frustrating about Ted Thompson was that he held on to guys too long. That allowed players to get content and built an aura of complacency. Giving 37-year-old Jeff Saturday a two-year deal and keeping 30-year-old A.J. Hawk and Brad Jones as middle linebackers in 2014 are some examples. 

That isn’t happening with Gutekunst. He has already made some tough choices. He has swallowed hard and is moving on. Matthews was a great player for the Packers. He was a six-time Pro Bowler that won a Super Bowl and is the franchise career leader in sacks with 83½. But keeping Matthews was a risky proposition with his tenuous health and declining speed. 

Cobb was loved by Aaron Rodgers, who praised his slot receiver whenever he was on the field. But that’s just the problem: Cobb only started six games this past season. Cobb is a dynamic player that adds another element to the offense, but when the team cannot depend on you to play, that makes it a lot harder to keep you. There’s a reason the Cowboys only gave him a one-year deal. 

Those two were the biggest names that won’t be coming back to Green Bay. Perry was foolishly signed because he had one magical year and Brice should have never started in this league to begin with. 

Most importantly, these moves send a message that this regime isn’t going to put up with mediocrity anymore. Thompson was fine with mediocrity because of how conservatively he built a roster combined with giving aging veterans welcome refuge. 

Gutekunst clearly wants to win. He knows he has a veteran star quarterback and he has made it his mission to surround him with capable talent — on both sides of the ball. 

Releasing long-time veterans isn’t easy, especially for a regime entrusted with winning over the fan base after missing the playoffs for the second straight year — a first since 2005-2006. 

The status quo hasn’t been good enough for years and now we all understand why. The Packers aren’t good enough. They have been a step slow and aren’t as athletic as they need to be. 

Gutekunst isn’t willing to put up with it anymore and is making sweeping changes. Many have met those moves harshly because they have been used to mediocrity for years. 

Get excited that Gutekunst isn’t satisfied with average. 

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (155) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

jww061356's picture

I think this article is spot on. When you watched this team play last year, its pretty hard to argue otherwise.

The TKstinator's picture

Agreed. Gotta love the direction GB is headed in.

dblbogey's picture

Also agree except for this part - "Cobb is a dynamic player that adds another element to the offense" . That should read Cobb WAS a dynamic player. The injuries have robbed him of the elite speed and quickness he once had. He's done.

Lare's picture

Nice article Cory. Gutekunst and LaFleur won't have the luxury of having an MVP quarterback in his prime to cover up for their mistakes.

Rodgers can still buy them a couple good years while they rebuild, but the last two seasons showed that they need a lot better talent, schemes and coaching in order to compete when Rodgers isn't in there.

Coach JV's picture

Right you are Lare! I shudder to think what would happen if AR goes down again.
We have made all the right changes and taken all the right steps so far to build a contending team again. We've had broad, sweeping changes and acquired some better players. We'll likely draft a few more...

But without AR, we will be relying on Defense to win every game.

We need a decent veteran backup who can win at least half the games he starts.

Nick Perry's picture

Hey Coach and Lare…. If MLF is really as good with QB's as he's been built up to be and it seems everywhere he's gone he has been, I think and I really do think Rodgers is back to being in the conversation as the best in the NFL and possibly helps Kiser make a complete 180. I don't think the guy is as bad as what we saw last year. I sure in the hell hope not at least.

McCarthy does deserve some credit for what he did with Favre and Rodgers. But when he turned Favre around in 2007 he was still working with a HOF QB who would own every passing record worth a damn when he retired.

As far as Rodgers I firmly believe AR would have become a pretty damn great QB no matter what. I'm telling you get Rodgers some more weapons because he DOES need them and you'll see the Rodgers of 2014 and before or something very, very close.

Demon's picture

I dont know about Kizer Nick. I'm just not convinced there is enough there to work with. Prior to Kizer I said Hundley was the worse Packers QB i'd ever witnessed. Honestly, if you took numbers off their uniforms I dont think anyone could tell those 2 apart. They were just BAD!

stockholder's picture

I still have hope for Kizer. His biggest problem is moving on from Wrs or TEs, that drop his throws. We saw Rodgers and Farve go back to that same target. Kizer must hit the Target the same way. Lets see what new coaching does with him.

Tundraboy's picture

Fair enough NP. I mean Kaiser could make a lot more improvement. Nobody was making any improvement with MM, so there is that element. Boyle too.

Johnblood27's picture

Worst ever?

Short timer...

Don Milan? Randy Wright? Rich Campbell? TJ Rubley?

Dont get me wrong, Hundley is not an above average NFL QB and Kizer is pretty much unknown at this point, but there have been far worse examples set over the history of the GBP. Many current fans have been very spoiled by BF, AR and some of the back-ups that were hatched under the Wolf regime.

Demon's picture

I dont remember Don Milan but, I do remember the others. I still have to say Hundley was worse. Anthony Dilweg, Blair Kiel amongst others just plain bad.

jannes bjornson's picture

I do remeber Bart passing over Joe Montana twice in the 1979 draft. Just ease your pain.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

Agreed.
I saw the 1970s ... last year Hundley was far worse..... he got us SHUTOUT. Twice. At home. That's not easy to do.

Coach JV's picture

Sorry Nick... but I respectfully disagree about Kiser. I don't think he's even half as good as Matt Flynn, much less even 3rd string material.

However, I do agree abut AR likely returning to form this year. I bet he returns with the infamous "chip" on his shoulder... and I can't wait to witness the naysayers eat their shorts.

However, that's not the problem for me.

For me, I worry what happens if AR misses 5 games due to concussion or something. After the way LaF made adjustments for the Titans last year, I have a little bit of comfort... but, man it would be nice to have a Matt Flynn type back up. Maybe someone like Matt Cassel or Josh McCown... they could win us 3 out of 5 maybe.

Lare's picture

We have a whole new coaching staff evaluating the players this year, including the backup quarterback options. If the consensus after training camp is that Kizer or Boyle can be viable options if Rodgers is injured, then they’ll make the final roster. If not, then I’d expect to see Gutekunst make a move to bring in a replacement.

I sincerely hope and expect that Rodgers stays healthy this upcoming season. But if he doesn’t, the Packers better be more prepared for it than they’ve been the last few seasons.

Ferrari Driver's picture

Kiser lacked accuracy in college and demonstrated that his accuracy on the pro level is dramatically deficient as well. That is one of the areas of expertise among elite quarterbacks which has remained difficult to improve. It also seemed to me that he had more than the usual "young QB" trouble reading the defense. Thus, I have reservations going into the season with Kiser as the number two QB and expecting him to win a couple of games.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Agree Ferrari. I don't think Kizer is close to being Penske material. Not by a long shot. I think the backup situation is going to come down to Gutey's pride which will be damaged make no mistake. He gave up a very good young ball hawking starting safety in Damarious Randall for a very bad backup quarterback who is more than likely out of the league this season while Damarious goes on to a super bowl more than likely this season. That's on Gutey. However in fairness to him ( I have been extremely hard on him) he made up for it or the scout who found him in signing quarterback rookie preseason phenom Tim Boyle.

If Gutey simply swallows his pride on this one and simply moves on to the obvious no. 2 in Tim Boyle, nobody is going to care in two years what he did. However, if he continues to double down and play this horrible qb and put him as our no. 2 just to say he didn't make a mistake we are totally screwed for our future. The future is Boyle. He needs to see this and go with it. I think he does and I think he will. Boyle was good enough to get Hundley traded and this year he'll be good enough to allow Kizer to be let go permanently.

Dash

Lare's picture

Last preseason;

Kizer had 32 completions in 60 passes for 460 yards. He had three touchdowns and 1 interception for an average QB rating of 94.

Boyle had 26 completions in 53 passes for 294 yards with 3 touchdowns and 2 interceptions for an average QB rating of 77.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Wow Lare, how could I argue with those stats. Could you put up Graham Harrel's stats while you are at it? Also change into Larry Pennel and have him come on too.

Fortunately I actually watched those games Lare. Yes, as boring as they sometimes are I paid attention to Boyle and if not for several drops by J'Mon Moore he is the most talked about rookie qb in the preseason in the entire NFL. You wonder why I referred to him as Shame On Moore all preseason? because he deserved it!!

Thank God you are not making decisions for the Packers. They kept him on the active roster all season long why? Because they already know he's a keeper and they are protecting this guy at all costs!! They know he's a special player trust me.

Dash

LarryPennell's picture

What facts do you have to make the statement he was the most talked about rookie qb in the entire NFL? Who was talking about him besides yourself? Were the interceptions he threw Moore's fault as well?

DragonSilk's picture

Mathews and Cobb might have 1 more good year in them if the their respective units were better. Still Cory's right about their injury history and declining speed making resigning them a huge risk. The rest of them are nobrainers. Even so if they aren't replaced with better players it will look like a bad move at the end of the year.

Coldworld's picture

Better a year early than a year late as the old saying goes. At some point both would have had to be replaced. Given the cost of keeping even Cobb, there was little chance of retention and bringing in FA additions elsewhere. The fates aligned to make the timing inevitable. Age and cost bite hard in pro sports.

CAG123's picture

I can agree with most of this article but what upside does Reggie Gilbert bring? That’s the only issue I have with letting Mathews walk he is definitely better than 3rd and 4th pass rushers and could have had some productive years coming in on pass rush downs or in a more reduced role. Older pass rushers do it all the time. So yeah they’ve upgraded their starters but still have 2 JAGS behind them.

jannes bjornson's picture

He's more of the elephant rusher. They trained him so why let him go. He could be a 5 sacks guy if given more reps. He and Preston Smith give Pettine his hold down the edge guys.

Coldworld's picture

Gilbert disappointed compared to pre-season, but he is not old and he was not a scrub. He is cheap. Reality is, you are not going to have all stars at a premium position often and not for long then in the modern era.

Johnblood27's picture

You cannot seriously compare keeping CMIII to keeping Gilbert.

The cost makes any comparison just plain stoopid.

If CMIII would have signed with GB for Gilberts salary he would still be in Green Bay.

Lets not get crazy here.

CAG123's picture

It’s crazy for you to think that a proven guy like Clay should sign for what Gilbert makes. Reggie Gilbert joins the list of hyped preseason undrafted scrubs the Packers have had in the past Jeff Janis, Michael Clark, those corners from a few years ago and probably some others I’m forgetting we go through this every year.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Jeff Janis was drafted in the 7th round. The undrafted CBs were Gunter & Donetello, safety Brice & Whitehead. The one Gilbert compares most favorably to is Jayrone Elliot who had 5 sacks in the preseason.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

meanwhile, Zombo kept going....elsewhere

CAG123's picture

Doesn’t matter they’re all in the same boat offseason warriors that never panned out everyone saying “They need more playing time and showing promise”! This years flavor is Robert Tonyan the guy people wanted Jimmy Graham cut for (lol) we’ll see how he turns out.

jannes bjornson's picture

I'm not ready to give Reggie the scrub label, just yet. He's more grounded than Elliot. He was a 4-3 guy for Arizona and kicked ass in college. Let's watch him one more year.

DragonSilk's picture

He never said that. Read. Comprehend. Post.

Coldworld's picture

CAG did, must refer you to your own advice.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Coldworld gets a dislike for stating a fact. CAG did in fact state that Gilbert is a scrub:

"Reggie Gilbert joins the list of hyped preseason undrafted scrubs the Packers have had in the past...."

Nick Perry's picture

I support Gutekunst in every move he's made so far this offseason. He's now built a defense that is capable of not only keeping the Packers in every game while the offense figures things out early in the year, he's formed a defense capable of actually WINNING some games on their own.

There's still work to do with the defense but Gutekunst now has a TON of flexibility in Aprils draft. Personally I think Gutekunst has set himself up to truly select the BPA. I'd love to see him pay some attention to the offense because it's been a while since the Packers have done just that. IMO they should get an O-Lineman and TE in the first 3 picks or 4 for sure. White, Bush, or Oliver and one of the Iowa TE's in the first and an O-Lineman at 44 would have me doing backflips.

No matter what happens this team is a HELL of a lot better than it was at the end of 2018. Thank you CMIII and Randall Cobb. I will always love what you did for the Packers. BUT it WAS time to move on from them. It WAS time to be aggressive in FA. It WAS time for a new coaching staff, and it's TIME to be relevant in the NFC again. The Packers have already did that in 2019.

Lare's picture

Yes, I agree that the team is already better than it was last year. One other thing to mention is that the players Cory listed above accounted for around $36 million in cap space. That's a lot of money for very little production in return.

jannes bjornson's picture

They all have upward leaning skill sets. We know he could have bagged Ford or Houston with bigger cash, but Gutekunst chose synergy at fair value. Houston could dominate this year or sustain another injury. 49rs will be a challenger if Garrapolo is healthy. THey have a chaance at Bosa or Allen to team with Ford. How do you beat down a pass rush, run the ball.

Coldworld's picture

He spent, but he spent hoping to reinforce for the long term. I hope it works and I think it is the right objective. Can’t rely on aging short term fixes or in draft goldstrikes every year.

Since '61's picture

Nailed it Nick!!! Excellent post. Thanks, Since ‘61

stockholder's picture

I would love to make a wager with you on your IMO. You and everyone who wants offense, just don't see the complications coming with the Cap. (next year). Daniels already said he wants big Money. Clarke needs to be extended. Martinez will want more. Bahk? And the rookies will be getting more. Clark is quicker then Daniels. And the depth has question marks. The packers must double dip DT and ILB. The packers must take Oliver if he's there. Hoek is not a threat. Fant is. He's the only Offense I would draft in the first 3 picks. But I wouldn't trade up for him. The best offensive players are the ones who come to you in the draft. If the packers take Offense, it must be because the defense doesn't match the BPA.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Stockholder,
This may be your best post! Very good solid information and easy to understand. I agree with you on Oliver. I completely agree with you about Fant and difference with Hoek.

At the end of the day Gute and LF have a vision and plan. They already have some idea about college player talent for 2020 NFL draft and additional pieces they will need. Creating a team is a slow and methodical process. I have my favorite players in this draft such as Burns, Fant, Oliver, Simmons, and Campbell but my hope is the Packers draft BPA who best fulfills Gutes and LF's vision needed to elevate the team to where they want to go. I hope they are successful in getting many of those players. Going to be a fun time during draft day but I know there are going to be many on here who will be upset because they have locked in on their favorite players based on talking heads and mock drafts.

Samson's picture

No doubt the optimism is a refreshing change. -- What's really nice is that if Gute can squeeze a couple (or more) players out of the draft to contribute at a high level in season 2019, it's off to the races for the Pack. --- I fully expect them to be playing in January again in season 2019.

Edit: Only one worry --- competent BU QB. -- Scares me.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Thompson was never able to move on from underpreformers because his draft classes after 2010 where total flops. Thompson basically wasted 7 years of drafts and he refused to sign free agents. If you do that how do you replace players that need replacing?

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

JBrown,
And Murphy's role for those 7 years were what? I mean what the heck was he doing?

That is my biggest disappointment with the Pack. Yes, that is in the past and and the Pack is on a new path, however the sins for all those years will remain for several years to come.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Murphy was watching the Packers get to the playoffs year after year. 1 0lay away from returning to the Super Bowl. He was buying land around Lambeau Field and expanding title town. Renovated Lambeau and added on more seating and luxury boxes. He allowed the GM and HC to do their jobs and now gets blamed. Changed the structure so the new GM and old HC would report to him so there was communication and gets called power hungry. Why not give the guy some credit instead of looking for someone to blame? He's a CEO not a GM/Owner/HC and he's done a hell of a job. Hindsight is always 20/20 and you weren't calling for Murphy's head for the past 7 years.

Demon's picture

I agree with you Jonathan. But some of us were calling for Teddys head 5 years ago. Particularly after the 2016 draft press conference when it appeared Ted was drunk.
His words were all slurred and rocking back and forth. We have since learned that he is sick or quite possibly suffering from CTE. if in fact that is the case and he was able to keep his job there is something terribly wrong in Green Bay.

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Jonathan,
In the past 3 or 4 months since I have been on CCTV you are one of my favorite reads, however I had been discussing Murph dropping the ball long before arrival at CCTV. Since I have been here I have mentioned and sharing that the Packers should have cut ties with TT and MM for a lot of years (ever since 2014) if you want to know. I would say it wasnt until about 2015 that I started questioning Murphy not getting involved.

I do not disagree with you that Murphy was doing a good job with the non-football side of the organization, but at the end of the day he was still ultimately responsible for the most important aspect of the GBP's which was the football side. You cannot cherry pick his duties and say Murphy did a great job because at the end of the day he did not. The football side of the business was and is Murphy's biggest responsibility. His office was next to TT's and he saw, watched, and talked to TT daily. He saw all the talent from the scouting department leave. He saw the poor results of the drafts over the years when the Packers were suppose to be a draft develop team. He saw the eroding of the talent on the field. He saw TT not filling holes on the roster with FA signings when division rival's were. He had access to NFL Consulting organizations he regularly uses and he did nothing for several years.

Explain to me your rational that Murphy didnt drop the ball for several years when everything mentioned were obvious to even fair weather fans?

With all the above aside I do agree it was fortunate Murph finally made aggressive decisions which while long over due are positive giving us crazy fans hope and optimism. I do think we all need to look forward now and not backwards. My biggest gripe with your comments is you act like I have been on CCTV for all those years in question and I never expressed reservations and concerns. Making a statement like that while convenient to fit your narrative was wrong!

Jonathan Spader's picture

KtSOoY appreciate you saying I've been one of your favorite reads. My response was prompted by what you said about Murphy but wasn't meant as an attack on you. There are a lot of posters here who supported TT for years and are now saying he should have been cut years ago. You're obviously not included in that group if you've only been posting 3-4 months.

My argument was completely cherry picked. It was listing off Murphy's accomplishments which in my mind there are a lot of. I saw Muprhy when he toured WI and did a presentation on the economics of the NFL. I can understand why GB declined the way it did because Rodgers masked a lot of the warts.

As for Murphy talking to TT daily I really don't think that happened. I don't think Capers, TT, MM & Murphy really talked all that often. That's what led to the change in structure with the GM & HC talking to Murphy. I think the lack of communication was on Murphy and led to him keeping MM, TT & Capers past their expiration dates.

I also don't know that Murphy felt Wolfe/Gute/Ball were ready to take over. In 2015 would Gute be the GM he was in 2018? Maybe? But there's no way of knowing. MM should NOT have gotten his 1 year extension which in my mind was the biggest blunder.

For TT not pursuing FA he had a history of successful drafts. People focus on his failed 1st round choices and gloss over his successes which is also cherry picking. What TT did well is let FAs walk to pick up the comp picks and let other teams overpay. He signed FAs that wouldn't upset that formula on team friendly deals instead of overpaying. We like the Smiths on paper but people also liked the Bennett signing.

Glad you can see my point on approving of how Murphy reacted to the Packer's decline. This is a almost a completely different team in 2019 than it was in 2018. Glad they kept Pettine. I can see how you thought my comment was directed at you since it was in reply to your comment. I just wanted to show CHTV readers what Murphy was doing and a theory for why the decline happened and how he responded. There's a lot to be excited for on 2019.

Go Pack Go!

KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

Thanks and why you remain a favorite read. We actually agree on most if not all.

Love excitement surrounding the Pack and the upcoming draft and season.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Murphy was doing his job and letting Thompson do his. Rodgers was covering up just how talent poor the team was. I pointed out how I was unhappy with Thompson's drafts around four years ago and took a lot of crap for it. Most people, including Murphy had bought into the idea the Thompson was "The Master of the Draft". Vic Ketchman said it so much it had to be true, right?

Nick Perry's picture

OMG...Vic Ketchman

I swear to God that dude talked about the old Steelers teams almost as much as the Packers. Drove me bat sh## crazy...HELLO Vic, this is Packers.com

Tundraboy's picture

Everything had a Steelers reference somewhere. Eventually just tuned him out. Haven't been on the site in years.

Bart_Starred's picture

Was watching Skip Bayless drool over the Cowboys’ acquisition of Cobb. While I wish Cobb well and thank him for his years as a Packer, it will be very satisfying watching Bayless mourn over the six games they get out of him.

Coldworld's picture

Prove it contract = something to prove. If he stays healthy and performs they got a steal. If not, well ... of course on past performances it looks good but the contract shows it’s a gamble that he is still that player.

lebowski's picture

why the f*@k are you watching Skip Bayless

crayzpackfan's picture

The ONLY topics on that Skip show is LeBron, Dallas, Dallas, Tom Brady, Dallas, and LeBron. I’ve never seen a man beat a dead house like that guy. It’s unwatchable anymore

Tundraboy's picture

Occasionally enjoyable to watch Shannon shut him up.

Gort's picture

Why would anyone "beat a dead house"?

Bart_Starred's picture

“Why the f*@k are you watching Skip Bayless”

I was channel-surfing and thought I’d spend a few minutes enjoying Shannon and whoever else was on the panel expose his ridiculous comments. Clear enough?

lebowski's picture

The more viewers "stop to enjoy a few minutes" of that garbage, the longer they keep it on the air. Clear enough?

Skip greenBayless's picture

I didn't even know who this Skip Bayliss was until a few days ago. I watched a video of him with Shannon Sharpe and I thought he seemed ok. He seemed well informed, confident in what he was saying and very respectful. I actually agreed and liked many of the things he said. I don't see what all the hoopla is about him. Granted I only watched a 5 minute video of him but he seemed like a decent guy. What am I missing?

Dash

Bart_Starred's picture

Dash-

Bayliss is a Cowboy sycophant who despises Aaron Rodgers, and typically anything Green Bay. His Dallas-bias is so overt it is a marvel anyone would ever refer to him as an objective sports analyst. He should be removed from all media pronto. I try to do my best to inform fans like yourself who may have only seen him once or twice, that he is not worth listening to in any serious manner, (other than to use what you might hear from him to inform others of his absurd comments) and hopefully, through blogs such as this, his reputation as nothing more than a Dallas Cowboy lackey will become so evident that his disrepute among fans will force his sudden departure from any national media and send him back to a studio somewhere in Arlington, Texas where he belongs.

Bart_Starred's picture

@lebowski

Nobody’s tracking what i watch on tv and my comments about Bayliss are always in the negative—and publicly so—yet you believe my watching him for 5 minutes somehow keeps him on the air and does him good, in spite of my continual public denouncing of him. Can’t argue with that unassailable logic. Brilliant.

sonomaca's picture

I know everyone lives to bash Ted, but didn’t Gute sign Jimmy Graham and Byron Bell, and then keep Graham a second year? Didn’t he sign Truman and then keep him a second year?

Aren’t these players veterans way past their primes?

Coldworld's picture

Bell was a Madison consequence in my view. Graham they obviously see differently than many of us. Tramon is currently back up for the entire secondary. He’s not the starting perimeter CB of choice and he wasn’t terrible last year either. Bell wasn’t old, just not good. Not retained.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Maybe, but Gute signed Bell on May 29, which is before they knew anything was up with Cole Madison. Of course, no one knows for sure when they got an inkling about Madison.

Still, based on available info, I don't think signing Bell and Madison not reporting were connected events.

Coldworld's picture

Signing for depth is one thing. Playing time is another.
However the main point was not retained.

Johnblood27's picture

signing on May 29 is signing to the 90 man roster, not a blessing of a starting spot or even a roster spot at that point.

Keep perspective. Getting possible players into camp is important, even if you dont think they will be 53 locks, There are 37 guys that will be shown the door, but you have to invite them in to be able to show them the door.

I dont think the Bell signing is any kind of indictment of BG's talent evaluation skills.

He brought in a vet who was servicable. Bell probably would have been cut if Madison showed and showed well. Like wise with any of the numbers 9, 10, 11, 12 depth men on the 90 man camp roster.

Bells combination of ability and experience made him one of the top 8 or 9 men from the 90 man roster.

Also keep in mind that the practice squad of EACH NFL team is a talent pool that can be accessed. A GM has to balance having the backside of the roster filled with young players with potential but not ready to start or sometimes even play with veterans who can actually take snaps if the opportunity comes for them.

Having 22 starters and a roster full of young kids waiting to be "developed" is not a winning roster in the NFL.

Of course neither is a roster of 22 starters and a bunch of JAGs eating cap space. There needs to be a balance and Bell was a part of that balance in 2018.

albert999's picture

yup

Skip greenBayless's picture

Yes he did and yes they are sonomaca but you should know better than to talk about that stuff here. It is forbidden. I have traveled into the forbidden zone many times here and it's never fun. I will say this and only say this one time as to what I found. On the beach is a huge statue of Ted Thompson's head. These people here are apparently trying to bury and erase the past and promote Gutey as the gold standard. Don't let these people fool you, it was Ted!!

Dash

CAG123's picture

But Dash you were just saying that Ted was pretty much deathly ill and Gute was pulling all the strings? Oh that was just for the bad drafts right? Gotcha

Coldworld's picture

McKenzie early and virtually everyone in Cleveland now were above Gute, not to mention Russ Ball.

Since '61's picture

I have posted for a few seasons that this team needs better players and a sense of urgency. Gute clearly has a sense of urgency.

The major issue is will the coaching staff also bring a sense of urgency and infuse that into the players along with a does of nasty attitude especially on defense.

I am supportive of Gute's moves so far but the results on the field are all that matter. I'm hoping that in terms of building the team around Aaron Rodgers (which is the correct approach) that it is not too little too late. We would have been much better off by now if Murphy had realized this a season or two earlier and had moved from TT and MM after 2016 or 2017.

Hopefully the draft brings at least 2 playmakers. Go Gute Go! Thanks, Since '61

sam1's picture

Agree and we need a backup Quarterback who is experienced and now with the Rodgers health history as late. The two backups we have now seem to be a couple of schmucks who can't get out of their own way no matter what some people think. We need a vet who has more than one horrible year and one QB who shows up good against 4th stringers and is not ever even been activated for a real game! Boyle should be placed on PS, if someone grabs him so be it!

Since '61's picture

Agree that we need to improve our backup QB situation. The question is how should we do it? Cap space or draft capital?

A vet would be preferred if we can get him for the right price. At this point I think that we are waiting until the draft plays out. Thanks, Since '61

sam1's picture

Agree seasoned vet needed, but guess is right with you, will see more after or during draft.

Coldworld's picture

I think this is something of a hollow conception. I don’t see a back up QB who will compensate adequately in the event of significant loss of AR time within our price and this year’s draft is not the place to find an upgrade at back up for this year.

sam1's picture

Best to to keep what we have if have to draft some one. Hopefully after draft some decent vet may become available at decent price!

Since '61's picture

Yes, it is somewhat hollow. However, good planning requires preparing for all contingencies including the worst case scenario.

The season is likely over if Rodgers goes down for a considerable length of time. But if he is out for 2-4 games it would be nice to believe that we at least have a chance in those games versus now where we have turnovers waiting to happen or a player who has never taken a snap in an NFL game. Thanks, Since ‘61

jannes bjornson's picture

61, It would be a good idea to draft a QB every year like the rule Wolf followed. We'll see what Gutekunst thinks of Mccarthy's guy in there during the draft. The QBs with attributes are moving up boards Grier and Stidhem won't be there in the fourth rd now. If he believes Kiser is a fraud he may have to go QB in the third, otherwise let Getsy work with him??

Demon's picture

Someone will be here shortly to tell us all that we have a future allpro QB currently on the team just waiting to unleash his greatness on the NFL. Blah blah blah

Johnblood27's picture

Oh God, please no...

Skip greenBayless's picture

John, I see they released you from the hospital. Hope you are doing better.

Dash

Skip greenBayless's picture

"Agree that we need to improve our backup QB situation"

A few people myself included might argue that we need to improve our starting qb situation first. Cory talks about getting rid of older veterans and replacing them with younger guys but never once even thinks of Aaron Rodgers as a guy in that mix. I think he should and others should as well. To think Aaron Rodgers is going to go back in time because of a new rookie hire head coach is foolish. His play last year was shockingly bad compared to years past. That's concerning to me... very concerning. Now cue Samson to roll out his numbers to say how great he was last year only throwing 2 int's.

Dash

Archie's picture

Let's see if I've got you right: You love the job TT was doing but think AR is a pos. Is that about right? If it is, you have no business being on any sports website. You are freakin insane.

Skip greenBayless's picture

No Archie, you don't have that right. What's new.

Dash

Jonathan Spader's picture

Investing in the defense lessens the need for a backup QB. If Rosgers misses time hopefully Jones/Williams/Draft Pick & the defense can win games. I have more faith in that than I do in an aging vet like McClown.

MM tried to supplement Kizer/Hundley as if they were a Rodgers clone when clearly no one is. Tailor the offense to the QB instead of forcing the QB into situations he clearly can't handle. Instead of wishing for a backup QB and complaining about the past let's see what Kizer/Boyoe look like in an MLF offense.

I'd rather see the money you want to spend on a veteran QB spent on a FA safety signing. Otherwise save the money to resign current players.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I don't think any drafted QB would be a better backup than Kizer, and probably not Boyle either. I don't see the point.

Skip greenBayless's picture

That's about one of the nicest things I ever read from you Reynoldo.

Dash

Coldworld's picture

Agree TGR.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I think it is clear that GB wants to try to win right now, say a 2 to 3 year window. This team still has enough weaknesses that it needs to use its picks in rounds one through three to try to fill some of them. The earliest I can see where GB could spare a pick for a QB is round 4, and probably later. I think the odds of drafting a QB in round 4, 5 or 6 who could come in and win 40% of the games he had to start should AR go down for a portion of the 2019 or 2020 seasons are tiny. Moreover, without giving a ringing endorsement to Kizer or Boyle, I would suggest they would have a better chance of winning a game or three than some day three QB. Finally, the odds of finding an OL, ILB, or TE in rounds 4 or 5 who might well be helpful are considerably higher than for a QB.

It just seems to me that the notion of diverting premium draft capital to taking a QB day one or two is at odds with management's current philosophy. Heck, I don't think much of two of the four QBs who are generally described as first round prospects, and I don't love the other two.

PatrickGB's picture

My heart and my head are arguing with each other. Right now the head is winning. It’s been tough to say goodbye to some face of the franchise players yet it’s the right move.

JohnnyLogan's picture

Don't think Gute did particularly well in FA last year. Didn't really kill the draft. The trade for Kizer didn't turn out well. Whether you were for the Khalil Mack trade or not, Gute was for it and didn't get him. He hasn't proven anything yet. We were all excited at this time last year and the season was a disaster. Yes, only his first year, but maybe we should withhold the excitement until we see some actual progress. I'll take what Cleveland has done to this point. I was for Dorsey and so far he's done a much better job. Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham out there to be had and we didn't get either of them, for Aaron Rodgers. Fail.

Coldworld's picture

Judging a draft after one year is a futile exercise. Dorsey had money to burn. Realism has to be part of any evaluation as does the situation Gute came into. The jury is still out on both in my view but he is at least being bold and trying. The alternative would have been far worse given the state of the roster.

jannes bjornson's picture

He helped kill the Bears draft for a couple of years. He went full bore @ Fuller as a tagged guy and drove up Chicago's CAP. Ted would never venture into this territory. Competing is more than just drafting some guys or picking up some pieces in trades and FA. He got some licks in there on the financial side of things.

Bart_Starred's picture

And took away what appears to be a pretty decent safety from the Bears as well.

dobber's picture

There's no comparison between BG and Dorsey---apples and oranges. On March 8, 2018, the Browns had almost $110M in available cap, virtually no big contracts, and (with some trading involved) ended up with 2-1st, 2-2nd, and a 3rd round pick in the 2018 draft. Even after moving picks for OBJ and Olivier Vernon, they still have 8 picks in this year's draft, with at least one pick in every round but the first.

The Browns had nothing, and have been nothing, for ages and Dorsey is reaping the benefits. To say that Dorsey would have done the same things in GB, or done more than BG, is unsupportable speculation and, frankly, just fantasizing.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Agreed. Dorsey is just cashing in the chips (massive cap space and tons of high draft picks) accumulated by the prior GM. So far, it looks like Dorsey has used his chips pretty well.

I have no problem reconciling Johnny Logan's comment with Coldwater's. They say similar things differently.

Archie's picture

Except Dorsey did the same thing in KC. Anyone hear of Patrick Mahomes? Tyreek Hill? Right about now I'm thinking Dorsey kept TT's ineptitude from showing itself 5 years sooner. I bet Wolf would tell you Dorsey is the best GM in football right about now. GB-KC-CLE. Not bad.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Drafting a franchise QB does wonders for the reputation of a GM. Here is a look at TT's drafts vs. Dorsey's 2013 to 2017 using PFR CarAv as the benchmarks:

year/TT/Dorsey
2013: 180 - 119
2014: 114 - 85
2015: 61 - 113
2016: 70 - 88
2017: 33 - 53

Dorsey left in January of 2013. Poor little TT was all on his own in 2013 and 2014 and still managed to trounce Dorsey.

Limited data set, but it sure looks like TT declined in 2015, and Mahommes is going to create more disparity as the years go by. Reading arrowheadpride, Dorsey was credited with being a good drafter, not so much for consistent success but for hitting big on two or three players per draft, but messing up the cap (which is why I read a fair amount about Dorsey a year ago).

Dorsey should do well for his 2018 choices. Getting the 1st, 4th, 33rd, 35th, and 67th picks should (has to) yield very good results. Baker Mayfield is the most important, but I noted it when Dorsey took Genard Avery in the 5th (not because I watch tape but solely because a couple of drafniks I respect had crushes on that player). Time will tell.

Skip greenBayless's picture

What absolutely horrible things to say JohnnyLogan. Having said that, I love and agree with pretty much everything you said!! I too am a big big John Dorsey fan and wanted him over anybody else if TT left. I can see why the great John T. Kirk was coaxed to Cleveland. Doesn't it feel good to be honest Johnny? I tell you there's nothing like being honest and being hated for it. Keep up the good work. I already am a fan. Big thumbs up from Dash.

Dash

LarryPennell's picture

Dash needs a hug again.

meatstyk's picture

Based on this argument, why is Bulaga still here? He can’t stay healthy either

sam1's picture

Right now doesn't seem a replacement is here right now. Health can turn on a dime, Rodgers hurt last two years in a row, do we ask why he is still here then too?

Tarynfor12's picture

LMAO when I read stuff from others, both writers and fans, I said was a problem and the players responsible for a lot of it for the last 6 years and how these players never should have been given the contracts they got or signed at all.

Coldworld's picture

Does the self love make you feel better? That from someone who agrees with a lot you have said.

Tarynfor12's picture

Standing strong against the many who dismissed my thinking as ' trolling ' about many a player praised by same makes me feel totally OK with massaging my ego, as much as many massaged theirs egotistically and yes wrongfully at my detriment.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Massaging your ego IS a form of trolling. Whole heartedly sharing your opinion is not.

albert999's picture

Kizer may develop into a good quarterback in the future, but I’m not convinced he can lead the Packers to a couple of victories if Rodgers had to miss a few weeks. In two seasons in the NFL, Kizer has thrown 11 touchdowns with 24 interceptions.
There’s a reason why the Rams recently signed Blake Bortles, the Chargers signed Tyrod Taylor and the Saints brought back Teddy Bridgewater. All three teams are contenders and have gone for experienced backup options. All three quarterbacks can fill in short-term and help their teams win games.
That said, many of the top free agent QBs are now off the market. If the Packers want an experienced backup, Josh McCown would be an option if he decides to play in 2019.

jannes bjornson's picture

McCown likes the East coast.

Lphill's picture

Yes but Gute has been on board since 2012 and I guess his word didn’t carry much weight as far as personnel moves went, sounds like he was a yes man to TT . If he screws up this draft he should move on , Packers-running out of time with Rodgers.

Coldworld's picture

He was well down the pecking order. Look at all those above him who are elsewhere now, the bulk having departed last year.

porupack's picture

oh, kind of like the Browns, give a GM 1-2 years, and just keep churning, and resetting, and I guess after a couple a decades, you're bound to finally settle on someone who can make a splash with FA money and win a 2nd or 3rd year on the job.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

How in the world do you "know" Gute was a yes man to TT? Isn't it possible he was saying "no" or making suggestions that weren't executed?

It sounds like you have blind hatred for Gute. Mind, I wouldn't give Gute a good grade so far, but it wouldn't be a terrible grade, and it would come for too early.

Archie's picture

Kinda harsh to say Gute screwed up last year's draft. He came out swinging and hit two HRs right off the bat: JA and an extra R1 pick!!! Now, I will say the jury is still out on his 2nd and 3rd picks. He picked up three nice prospects at WR in the mid to late rounds. That ain't hay. He lost out on the dancing bear OL due to a tragedy. Picked up a long snapper and punter. And got a couple of guys at the end that may prove big on defense going forward. He showed us that he is attracted to athletic marvels with freakish size. Yes, he blew it in free agency. Trumon came in handy but Mo was so-so before going down with broken ankle. Worst decision was Graham. Especially with the ridiculious contract he gave him. NOR was desperate for a TE and wouldn't offer him more than 20% of what teh Pack gave him because they knew what most of us knew, Graham's better days were far behind him. Don't sign FA guys who are 30 or older unless their names are Reggie White or Charles Woodson.

Anyway, it looks like Gute learned his lesson and picked out 4 good ones this time around. Let's see our picks 2 & 3 from 2018 pan out and let's see what he does in his 2nd rodeo before issuing a verdict one way or the other. I know this much, I've never heard himn say anything stupid. Can't say that about MM or TT.

As to Mark Murphy. Yes, he was way to deferential to TT. The pack's W-L record was good so he wasn't going to rock the boat. He was definitely a year or two late seeing the writing on the wall. And he almost gave us Russ Ball. But, since then he has recovered and given us a young GM and HC that may turn out to be just what we needed. So I'm reserving my opinion on him as well.

Take care all good Packer fans ....

ILPackerBacker's picture

"THE ONE THING" frustrating about ted ?????

Cullen Jenkins, Moss, Lynch, Wells, Harrell, Sheppard and many others are lol ing you. Perry of course is stunned.

Skip greenBayless's picture

The one thing exciting about Ted?

Aaron Rodgers, Nick Collins, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Jermichael Finley, Tim Boyle, Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Sam Shields, A.J. Hawk, Clay Matthews, Ryan Pickett, Julius Peppers, Aaron Jones, Jamal Williams, Ryan Grant, David Bakhtiari, Bryan Bulaga, Kenny Clark, Cory Linsley, Mike Daniels and the list goes on and on and on and on.

Dash

TheBigCheeze's picture

I agree with every BG move....EXCEPT Jordy......Graham is trash......

lebowski's picture

"Willie Davis played in an era when neither tackles nor sacks were official statistics. However, John Turney, a member of the Professional Football Researchers Association, reports that Davis had in excess of 100 sacks during his 10-year Green Bay career (1960–69), "possibly more than 120," including a minimum of 40 over the 1963–65 seasons alone.[7] Davis himself is quoted as saying, "I would think I would have to be the team's all-time leader in sacks. I played 10 years and I averaged in the 'teens' in sacks for those 10 years. I had 25 one season. "

Coldworld's picture

I will take a second Willie Davis in the first round even if I have to trade half my picks to get him. All time great.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Willie Davis and Reggie White both had 1 official stat, Championships.

OldTimer's picture

My problem isn't with the FA signings last year, that's always a crapshoot. My problem is with the structuring of the contracts that don't leave us with better flexibility and in a better cap situation when we do need to let someone go. I also think that when you sign a player to a longer term contact, you should expect to hang onto him for at least two years unless something major happens to them. If you cut free agents after one year you start seeing free agents signing other places instead of Green Bay.

Jonathan Spader's picture

I've seen similar posts in the past. As usual not 1 shred of proof that this is true. Jordy signed a 2 year deal with the Raiders and was cut after 1 year. Didn't stop FAs from signing with the Raiders. Same thing happens all across the NFL. GB's difficulty in signing FAs has nothing to do with cutting players. It's asking people to move to a cold environment in the middle of nowhere. Once they experience the fanbase in GB they love it but it's the idea of WI that deters FAs.

Look at the Smith's contracts they are structed to hold on to them for at least 2 years. Lots of teams sign players to 1 year prove it deals. Look at what Cobb just signed with Dallas 1 year for $5 mil. HHCD with the Bears 1 year for $3.5 mil.

Your argument contradicts itself and I don't really understand what you're even complaining about. Did GB cut someone too soon? How would you have structured their contracts? We got FAs into GB call it a win and enjoy it.

Point Packer's picture

Too little too late. Massive exodus all over the organization should have taken place three or four years ago. Wasted Rodgers prime. This team won’t be championship caliber for at least three years.

stockholder's picture

You are correct! And the packers can't waste the defense they just acquired. The existing veterans want money and long contracts. But like any phone plan. Don't get locked into these guys! (They couldn't win.) Their mind is polluted. Their not the future and we know it.

jannes bjornson's picture

Never say never. Look closely at the roster. Its better than it was last season and B.G. has some draft value we have not seen since the 2009 draft with four in the top 100. Gutekunst isn't going to draft a Mike Neal or a Datone Jones making believe this minor league baseball. He set a tread already. He want Football players. THey had four years in college to get the basic of their positions down. He won't select a two-route WR, regardless of their frame or 40 timing, etc.

sam1's picture

Still wish they would have kept Dorsey over Gute.

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Dorsey was a Chief. What are you talking about?

sam1's picture

I meant kept him earlier on, really had to explain that to you? What you talking about? I guess I just assume to much on peoples brain power and fore sight. Sorry next I will explain in detail! Geez!

dobber's picture

I don't know how that's even a comparison. When he left for KC, Dorsey was director of football operations and BG was in college scouting (and it wasn't like BG ascended into Dorsey's position when Dorsey left)...I don't see how it was ever a choice between the two for the Packers.

lebowski's picture

Seems ridiculous I know, but after last year I just don't trust Rodgers to be all-world anymore. He looked downright awful so often, and now all his 'trusted' guys are gone. Get ready for ARod holding the ball for 7 seconds, 8 seconds, 9 seconds,.....

jeremyjjbrown's picture

My money is on that he is done with that diva crap. I can't imagine that MLF and Hackett what to hear his BS excuses anymore than we do. Unlike McCarthy those guys don't owe Rodgers Jack, they earned their own way to 2019 HC and OC.

lebowski's picture

Truly hope so

Jonathan Spader's picture

Rodgers got what he wanted Mike McCarthy was fired. David Raih was fired. Luke Getsy is rehired. He'll have a chip on his shoulder in 2019. Rookie WRs will have another year of experience amd a new OC and WR coach. We still have Davante Adams and Geronimo Allison which are WRs Rodgers trusts. I'm expecting to see a revitalized Rodgers in 2019. Can't wait!

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Van Pelt is QB coach for the Bengals.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Edited: thanks for the correction JJ got Van Pelt and Luke Getsy mixed up. Never been great with the names of the assistant coaches I tend to focus on FO & players.

Archie's picture

Even if you are right. I would gladly accept a SB Championship 3 years from now.

LarryPennell's picture

Finally the team is moving in the right direction. Unfortunately it’s going to take some time to repair all the holes Thompson left on the roster. Adhering to the draft and develop mentality so stubbornly can demolish a team quickly when your choosing players as poorly as Ted did in his later years . I can understand where the complacency came from, if you’re CMIII, who’s you’re competition year in and out if you know the GM is never going to dip into free agency. I don’t think some of the players were ever challenged.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Cory, this doesn't sound like anything you would write. What is your date of birth?

Dash

Johnblood27's picture

Really?

Calling out and insulting a writer on a free blogosphere site?

Rash, you are sinking to new depths, those usually reserved for the likes of JKirk, Cow, et al.

You are like cranberry sauce in the Thanksgiving Game Stop commercial... Nobody likes you! There may be a reason for that.

Make your points, try to make some sense, leave the bashing and not so subtle innuendo out, or please don't pollute this otherwise informative and entertaining site.

There are lots of other places to post where I'm sure the clientele doesn't care how ridiculous or insulting you are.

This is a civil and pretty well educated GB Packer community with plenty of room for disagreement on valid points of contention. You started out as a good contributor but you have crossed the line to troll.

I think I echo the sentiments of many here, but IMO (I know I do not speak for others)... Shape up (I know you can) or head over to another board.

Al, I thought you cared...

Jonathan Spader's picture

Johnblood Jersey Al has already given Dash a warning on a previous post yesterday (not 2 days ago like I thought)

Option routes and the rookies struggle

Jersey Al says:
March 22, 2019 at 08:05 am

" You are dealing with zombies here. " Dash, as I have expressed to you, I've really had enough of this type of rhetoric. Practically every comment you leave has something in it denigrating other readers here as if you are somehow superior. You're not and I'm asking you very nicely to stop.

Al

Skip greenBayless's picture

Show me Spader. If he did I didn't see it. I would like to read it if he did. Please tell me where it is. I know he mentioned something about personal attacks which Lare never seemed to listen too even right after that but I don't know if that was two days ago. Again, I want to see what he said. I don't want to piss Al off. I like and respect him.

Thanks,

Dash

jeremyjjbrown's picture

He said it. I saw it too.

I honestly want you to stop too. You have some decent opinions when you stick to football. Just stick to football.

sam1's picture

Agreed the guy is real pain, nuisance and attention seeker!

Skip greenBayless's picture

JohnBlood, you were the guy that went off on a f-bomb tirade about three days ago were you not? You really appeared to show signs of being out of control. I can't help that but you didn't hear me calling for you to "shape up or leave" did you?. You see what I wrote about Cory (who's my favorite writer here by the way) and asking for his birthdate was this thing called a light hearted joke. If you read yesterday about Dragon5 and his numerology I decided to go with that as my first response of the day to Cory's article AS A JOKE. Why? because I said I wan't going to be talking much about it anymore. That's why I lead with it. Now please, I am really getting sick and tired of people like you JohnBlood telling and demanding other people to get rid of someone because you are too stupid to get a joke. You remind me of John Brennan for crying out loud.

Dash

P.S. You just personally attacked/insulted me when you call me Rash. SMH

LarryPennell's picture

When I read your comment stating that it didn’t sound like his (Corey’s) typical writing and asking for his birthday I can’t see how that could be taken as a joke at all.

Dash, you should start worrying about yourself and less about Lare.

Lare's picture

Amen to that!

Coldworld's picture

Missed the previous fracas and Al’s comment. Dash, I used to enjoy your posts. Not saying I always agreed but they were interesting, but recently, negativity, sarcasm and seemingly now personal vitriol?

I guess you are in a bad place, but others here aren’t responsible. Think twice before you post perhaps?

Johnblood27's picture

Hey Cranberry Sauce, Thanks for your reply.
" I am really getting sick and tired of people like you JohnBlood telling and demanding other people to get rid of someone because you are too stupid to get a joke. You remind me of John Brennan for crying out loud."

I didn't say for Al to ban you, asking if he cares is just to get him to address the issue I brought up.

In my comments directly to you, I just requested, rather politely I thought, that you go back to more football related commentary, which I complimented you on BTW.

To address your latest insult, the stupid comment, I can absolutely guarantee you that I am in no measurable way stupid. Not in interpersonal interactions, I deal with many different people every day in my business and personal life and have made few if any enemies (other than one ex-wife over 35 years ago when I was young and dumb, go figure) I respect others on many levels and am not judgmental towards others. That is one of my basic life philosophies, allowing others to retain or gain dignity in every interaction.

I hold more than one advanced degree and have a lot of letters after my name, I am not stupid in an intellectual sense either. I have earned a great deal of respect from other professionals in my field for good reason, not stupid there either.

I have a quite good sense of humor, I view that as a sign of higher intellect, and as such I make certain to find the humor not only in jokes and humorous comments, but also in statements and interactions not meant to be humorous. Your insulting comment towards Corey was completely out of any context that would render it humorous, thus it lacked humor in that post. If you are going to attempt humor on the internet, set it up so that it doesn't come across as insulting and degrading.

There, you now know more about me than you have a right to. Please take this as a signal that I meant what I said. I enjoyed your commentary when you first came to my attention on this site. That is not the case anymore and I thought I outlined the area which has caused the boards participants to begin to turn on you. I then politely requested that you return to your meaningful commentary and stop the degrading behaviors. I thought that Al's attention might help persuade you to see my points.

I am sorry if you took my comments in a different context.

One last thing. My supposed F bomb laced post... of which I have no recollection. I was probably drunk. We all have our faults.

PETER MAIZ's picture

I waited for years for Green Bay to break out and do something. It couldn't be done. How many years dd we wait for Dom to skip town. So what Gute can do is a hypothetical. It's like tossing a coin. It's what you can do with newbies without experience. Then you're depending exclusively on the health of Rodgers who leaves the pocket to find an open receiver. Also, you're depending on Le Fleur to make the system work. Too many "ifs" and "maybes", once a year like every other year. Not so hot considering that every team in the NFL is trying to do the same. I know the die-hards in this site always swear the team will do this and that. After years of believing in miracles, it's show me time.

Coldworld's picture

I know where you are coming from. I think a lot of people here understand that this is not guaranteed to get better. I think some of us are relieved that a real effort is being made that at least might turn the tide and end the seemingly inevitable drift downwards.

Archie's picture

We are rebuilding in teh wake of TT's dotage and MM's whatever. It will take some time. Enjoy the ride back to the top. This draft will be a big step. Lately I've been thinking 2 OTs and a TE with our first 3 picks. 12 deserves it. Better to protect QB1 than keep acquiring new QB2s.

sam1's picture

So I guess we need you out there so we get better?

Gort's picture

"The status quo hasn’t been good enough for years and now we all understand why. The Packers aren’t good enough. They have been a step slow and aren’t as athletic as they need to be."
That is a pretty good summary of the complacency at many levels of the organization.

Johnblood27's picture

I remember...

The Pack will be Back

and...

The Pack will Starr in (whatever year you choose of Barts tenure)

These posts sounds strikingly familiar.

The entitlement from many Packer fans to winning football strikes me as interesting.

There were a lot of lean years in the history of the GBP, but there are a preponderance of current Packer faithful who have never experienced just 2 consecutive losing seasons.

Those of us that suffered through the 70's and 80's understand Hopes and Dreams and Wishes and Potential and High Yet Poor Draft Choices and Bad Trades and Career Ending Injuries and Poor Coaching Decisions and Jokes At Our Expense and......

Learning to accept and live with disappointment is part of life all while continuing to attempt to overcome the obstacles that are placed before you.

I am and always will be a Packer fan. There can be no other. Therefore I will always hope, dream, wish and root for my boys and their leadership to succeed every week of the year and especially hard on Sundays in the Fall .

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