Content
X

Create Account

Or log in with Facebook

X

Log in

Or log in with Facebook

Cory's Corner: Brian Gutekunst Must Get Creative

By Category

Cory's Corner: Brian Gutekunst Must Get Creative

Brian Gutekunst has done a pretty good job in his first go-around in the free agency circus.

But there’s one missing aspect: a veteran cornerback.

The Packers have made a few swings. They made an offer to Kyle Fuller that was matched by the Bears, who placed the transition tag on him. They gave a serious look at Tyrann Mathieu, who signed with the Texans. They were also looking at Rashaan Melvin, but he opted to sign with the Raiders.

Granted, the free agent market has been sideways as evidence by Trumaine Johnson’s five-year $72.5 million deal that includes $34 million guaranteed. That’s a boatload of money for a guy that was ranked as the 75th best corner this past season and No. 51 in 2016.

But while gobs of money is floating around, the Packers are without a veteran corner and in the process, may also lose veteran safety Morgan Burnett.

Damarious Randall was the Packers’ top corner in terms of coverage last year and he was ranked 29th in the league. Maybe the Packers have something in Kevin King, but you cannot bank on him to rise from inconsistent rookie to shutdown cover corner.

That’s why it’s time for Gutekunst to get creative. The Packers may have lost out on Mathieu, but what about his Arizona teammate? Patrick Peterson is arguably one of the best corners in the game and he’s 27. With Arizona losing assets and signing Sam Bradford of all quarterbacks to become its starter, I doubt that Peterson is onboard for a rebuild in the desert.

With the majority of top free agent corners already gone, the Packers have to start working the phones if they really want a veteran presence in the defensive backfield. If the Packers can part with a second and fourth round pick for a shutdown corner, it’s worth it.

The only downside is that Peterson has a cap hit of $14.9 million in 2018. That is a big number but you cannot put a price on good pass coverage with three of the top 11 receivers in the NFC North.

The Packers did a good job by signing Muhammed Wilkerson. He should be able to hide the inefficiencies from the edge rusher position. But the back end of the defense remains a problem. And that’s why another rookie defensive back isn’t the answer. The Packers have taken four defensive backs with their first two picks in the last three years. What that unit lacks is a leader.

And Gutekunst can supply that with a little ingenuity. If the Packers can’t land a free agent with money, maybe they can land a veteran with draft picks.

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

NFL Categories: 
  • Like Like
  • 0 points

Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (202) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Lare's picture

Will be interesting to see what the Packers plans are to improve one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL last year.

The TKstinator's picture

Maybe there’s another Al Harris out there that we don’t know about: a guy who’s been playing nickel or dime and is ready for a bigger role, and won’t necessarily break the bank or command too much in trade. BG HAS been aggressive so far. Let’s let him work!

dobber's picture

THAT, my friend, is the right thinking....

lou's picture

TK and Dobber, you guys nailed it, what a find Harris was. With all the attention to the draft under Thompson we still had people who reported to him who were in charge of "Pro Player Personnel", they should have tons of info and a ranking chart prepared just like for the draft if they need someone at any position during the season. That is where the next "Al Harris" should be found, lets go get him guys, all the prep work should be done.

John Kirk's picture

Why didn't we get the next Al Harris the last 6 seasons?

jeremyjjbrown's picture

Apparently that's not easy...

dobber's picture

They wanted Al Harris, but succeeded in getting Al Delvecchio instead...yeahp, yeahp, yeahp...

worztik's picture

All of our pro player evaluations went to Cleveland with EW, who was hiding the real evals for when he became the new GM! He figured to come in, make a big splash like DADDY, and be the second coming. He overlooked one aspect, however, that being, that he didn’t get the position he desired! Now he has ALL the evals on a secret flash drive he kept up his ass for just this turn of events. Oh, the shame of it all......

worztik's picture

You really “wiped” the floor with that comment ;~€)
Well done...

Rak47's picture

Simple answer, Dom Capers antiquated and overly complex scheme that it seems only AJ Hawk, and Morgan Burnett [out of hundreds of players] were ever smart enough to master and get the defense lined up properly in. Good riddance to Capers. I've been calling for his ouster since the 2013-2014 season ended.

Packmaniac's picture

We had the next Al Harris - it was Casey Hayward. It took a while for me to kinda get over letting him walk for minimal money.

ScaryGary's picture

how many super bowl rings did al harris have?

Chuck Farley's picture

Ya and one of the worst the year before and the year before that. Ted T made a total mess of the defense on this team. Aint gonna be fixed in one draft I'm afraid

Packer Fan's picture

Well they lost Fuller. Better do something soon. TT just didn't get into FA. Losing out to other teams for suitable players is just the same. Can't go into the draft with only King.

Michael Hughes's picture

I think we have to just go with a house type FA and maybe double dip in the draft and hope for the best.

Really FA should be used to plug holes in the roster. Not for getting big names in a bidding war or you end up in a mess.

Dont have any issues with trading a 5th or something like that for a vet on a sensible contract if there is something out there.

Cubbygold's picture

Gute might believe that every CB that GB hasn't signed are overvalued. They don't need to act soon, they have plenty of time. No need to panic and overpay, or sign guys that are mismatches for the scheme.

Hopefully gute has been in every discussion and has been comfortable letting other teams reach.

Michael Hughes's picture

How do you fit 14m into the salary cap ? Cut cobb ? If so how do we get round a massive massive need at receiver as well as still having needs at corner, safety, pass rush with two less draft picks.

You win by having starters at rookie contracts. We have given up a starter on a rookie deal which puts us behind the field cap wise and has caused all these problems (I accept he probably had to go).

Your suggestion creates a lot of problems and severely weakens our chances moving forward (removes two possible chances of having good players on rookie deals). There is a reason why mums say no to kids who want everything in the sweet shop.

GB Jacker's picture

We have a huge amount of cap room next year, and plenty to work with this year. People need to stop worrying so much about it - there's so many ways around it. If you trade for Pat P couldn't you immediately offer him an extension and reduce his 2018 cap hit. It would be great to see him in GB and he's probably got 4-5 good years left in him too.

We need somebody - even if it's Cockrell or Gaines. Would have been nice to go into the draft with an extra body at EDGE or CB.

kidflash's picture

They don't have to fit 14 mil into the cap. They can redo his contract to a more cap friendly deal. And 10 draft picks is still more than average. It's not like 12 draft picks were all going to make the 53 this year.

GB Jacker's picture

Amen Kidflash. When you put it like that it's hard to imagine we're not going to use those pics in some way. Perhaps to move up the draft or draft day player trades

dobber's picture

If they could deal 6th and 7th round picks for a Patrick Peterson, I'd be on board with you. But it's going to cost multiple early picks (and likely not just from 2018) to make a trade like that work, and those picks would not have been players who "were not going to make the roster", they're going to need to be the focus of it for years to come...and you still have that pile of day 3 picks (that everyone seems to be so willing to dismiss).

Takes two to tango on redoing Peterson's deal. If that were the plan, the Packers would have to have some assurance he'd be willing before making that deal. If you look at his contract, though, there's not a tremendous amount of dead money left on it. He has 3 years left on it. He might look around at what other players are getting and want a raise.

Who's to say 12 draft picks wouldn't make the roster? These guys are already off the roster...
OLB Ahmad Brooks
S Morgan Burnett
DT Quinton Dial
G Jahri Evans
LS Brett Goode
CB Davon House
WR Jeff Janis
T Ulrick John
TE Richard Rodgers
LB Joe Thomas
It should be telling that none of them have inked a deal with anyone else, yet. That's not to say that some of them won't still be resigned by the Packers, but that's 10 guys who finished the season with the club last year. Do I think the Packers will make 12 picks in the draft? No. But I do think there will be at least 9-10. If the team is serious about getting better, we all seem to be in agreement that they can't hang on to underachieving vets. Turn over the bottom of the roster and create competition.

kidflash's picture

I really only see about 6- 8 draft picks making the roster after breaking down who they already have on the roster, and figuring in a few more free agents. You have to remember they have players coming back from IR, and a couple of guys from the practice squad usually take that 2nd year jump and make the roster.

dobber's picture

True, but you also have to figure that a potentially major change in coaching staff and philosophy on defense (and maybe with Philbin whispering in MMs ear). Looking for cap room and retooling. New GM means that TTs pet projects are on a short leash.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see around 30% roster turnover this year. That might sound like a lot, but really, that's 17 new players...including FAs, UDFAs, and draft picks.

John Kirk's picture

Some irony in that we seem to always overvalue our own, but the one guy we didn't, Jordy, got snapped up in a flash with multiple teams interested.

Jordy needs to be on that list above...and he needs replacing, too.

Dial has received interest.

All 12 picks could make the roster. We have no idea how Brian values his picks yet. He could love them more than Ted did. I'll guarantee the hope is all 12 replace some current player.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

I love the idea of swinging big for the BEST CB in football Patrick Peterson.
These decent guys like Tremaine J, K Fuller, are getting paid like they're elite. And they aren't elite.

Peterson is.

You say a 2nd & a 4th for Peterson.
I don't think they'd trade him for anything less than a 1st & a 4th. It might take a 1 & a 4 this year, AND a 2 next year.

Still, with our track record drafting CBs in RD 1, I'd do it. He's still just 27.

Nick Perry's picture

You mean Ted Thompson's record at drafting CB's right? None of us have any idea who was in favor of drafting Randall, Rollins, King, and Jones but Thompson is the one who drafted them. Hopefully Thompson's last draft will turn out to be one of his best and Jones and King make the "2nd year jump" we've all grown so accustomed to hoping for every year.

I think your idea of what it would cost for Peterson is pretty realistic. It's going to cost multiple picks over 2 years to pry Peterson away from the Cardinals. The Packers need CB's but they'll NEED those higher draft picks it would cost to get Peterson too. Right side of the O-Line, WR, OLB, S, and CB are all huge areas of need for GB right now. You might want to add TE in that group too since it takes a receiver time to contribute in the Packers offense.

Sign Tramon Williams or House to a one year deal. Take a shot at EJ Gaines possibly although his current "Market Value" of $9.3 Million might be a bit rich for the Packers. Bring Breeland in for a visit and let the medical staff take a look at his foot. If they think he'll be ready to play by TC and could at least participate in OTA's then try and sign him to a one or two year deal.

I still think there's players out there that can help GB without giving up any resources from a draft position we won't likely have again as long as Rodgers is standing.

CheesyTex's picture

I still think the Joe Whitt factor is big. Plan may be for youth and speed back there in Pettine's new scheme, bolstered by improved pass rush.

That said, agree with you and think bringing both Williams and House into TC for veteran security blanket is a low risk, low cost, rational idea.

Community Guy's picture

the youth and speed need to be drafted pretty early.. they will need to draft a corner by the end of day 2 to have any reasonable expectation on a rookie starter in 2018.. and that is pushing it.

OrganLeroy's picture

Also by beefing up the front 7 and the pass rush you help the secondary that's why an edge guy @ #14 makes the most sense. We can still draft a couple of CB's 3rd & 4th rounds to get some snaps this year and develop for next year.

Bearmeat's picture

There is no way that the Cards will get rid of Peterson. It'd take a couple 1st round picks to even open discussion, and then you'd have to renegotiate Peterson's contract.

No. The best and only way going forward would be to grab Tramon or House - someone cheap - in late March on a 1 year deal. Then perhaps Breeland if he heals up by May. THEN you still have to invest a day 1 or 2 pick in CB AND a couple picks on day 3.

It's not pretty right now.

GB Jacker's picture

Breeland would be nice but surely the Panthers will happily re-do that deal if his foot is better in a couple of months?

OrganLeroy's picture

That's up to Breeland, Carolina doesn't get 'dibs' on Breeland just because they brought him in 1st.

Nick Perry's picture

Oops... I didn't see your post before I posted mine BM. Like usual we're thinking alike, hell exactly this time!! LOL

The only thing I'm not doing yet is panicking. I agree it's not pretty now, but this is a pretty good class for CB. With Wilkerson already added to the D-Line the Packers pass rush has already improved. There's also going to be cuts after the draft, maybe they pick up another CB then.

IMO the Packers need most of those picks through the first 5 rounds to even begin to fill the holes.

Bearmeat's picture

Yeah. I'm not panicking either... yet.

If they don't find at least 1 (preferably 2) vets to at least ensure average production from the CB unit before the draft, THEN I will be panicking. With the needs they have at OLB, it would not be good to have equal needs at CB. Plus, rookie CBs usually aren't very great. We have some vets who at least don't SUCK at OLB (although they can't stay healthy). We don't have that at CB right now.

To me, a perfect free agency period would be grabbing a speed WR such as Pryor (or trading for one) AND 2 veteran CBs. That would clear up the team to focus on OLB and RT and draft BPA overall....JMO.

dobber's picture

If Jordan Matthews didn't leave Arizona with a contract, I like him as a potential target...a safer one than Pryor, although Pryor checks a lot of boxes: size, speed, has a productive season under his belt. Both could be had for less than what it would have reasonably (as opposed to the alleged unreasonable offer) cost to keep Nelson. And they're both just hitting their prime.

CheesyTex's picture

IMO #12 would turn Pryor into a monster.

dobber's picture

Give him a one-year, incentive-laden deal? I'd take that chance...

I still like Matthews better, though.

John Kirk's picture

NP and BM...

I'm surprised you guys aren't panicking. Yes, there's lots of time left to get a quality CB. Are you really content taking the draft route?

It's great Brian has added Mo, Jimmy and DeShone... I'd gladly do without that trio for a quality CB. The pressing need (not a pun) was CB only exacerbated by the Randall trade. Brian looks STUPID right now. You have a need for CB so you trade one away and had no plan in place to replace what you lost when you were already wanton in that area? I'm sorry. I'll give him ups when he deserves them but he's an idiot to trade away DR without knowing he could replace him right away. He got blindsided by the market thinking he could pay for a CB but found it was too rich for him so they crafted a JOKE of an offer sheet in desperation that was rejected, in a sense, quicker than Jordy's low ball. It's gone from bad to worse from not being able to afford a CB to sending out embarrassing offers that make the org look ridiculous. I fear the huge reach at 14 is the next bad moment when it comes to CB.

Yes, there's "time" but Brian has failed mightily...so far...a trade is the only outlet now to ensure we get someone with pedigree. The draft is a gamble. Randall was a 1st rounder...Ahmad Carroll a 1st rounder...Terrell Buckley a 1st rounder... Vinnie Clark a 1st rounder...Antwan Edwards a 1st rounder...George Teague a 1st rounder. We hit on Craig Newsome and Tim Lewis who were similarly fated players. Point is... counting on 14 to be some fix is a less than 50-50 proposition. Buckley was supposed to be such a sure thing that high in the draft and Mandarich, too. Both busts for us. Risking busts because Brian traded Randall and couldn't fix it? We don't even know if King can play, yet. Bad, bad, bad.

Bearmeat's picture

I agree that we need to look into the trade market. We need a quality CB 1 or 2. AND we need a quality CB 3 or 4. Both preferably from the veteran side of the equation. That will mean losing some prime draft capital for the CB 1/2 I'd bet.

When I say "There's time" I mean it though. It's only 3/17. Of course I would have much preferred to move on from Randall and sign a free agent CB costing roughly the same. But it didn't happen. That said, the draft is in a little under 2 months. There is time to move some pieces yet.

John Kirk's picture

Speaking of time... Brian erred greatly trading DR prior to FA. He should've waited for FA to get started. He was wrong about the market and the prices. He would've known he couldn't deal Randall had he waited a few days to learn he couldn't afford the prices CBs were commanding. At very least, he could've flipped Randall for another CB, like McCourty, instead of a QB. Don't get me wrong, I like the trade, but the timing was RIDICULOUS. Missing out on Peters was a mistake given our current situation. I guarantee this didn't go as Brian "planned". He did a poor job being prepared to get help at CB.

Now, he's boxed into a corner with no corner and traded away one of his best corners...he should go sit in the corner. Might have to call the coroner on the season's chances if something doesn't change.

Bearmeat's picture

I agree with you there. They should have held onto Randall until before the draft, even if they knew they were going to dump him. Or, alternately, they needed to ship him for a competent CB.

John Kirk's picture

They could've dealt Randall back when the Skins traded for Smith. That was January 30th. We wait until March 10th, 2 days before you can negotiate with FAs? TWO DAYS, and then pull the trigger???? I just don't understand that...at all. I didn't think it would be an issue to comment on and obviously neither did Brian, but, in retrospect, what a stupid, stupid, stupid, move as to timing.

Yeah, up until the draft or until you got someone else in FA you felt comfortable with. Now, the dynamics of panic are going to set in and who knows what crazy thing we end up doing that we wouldn't have felt forced into had we waited...two days.

dobber's picture

Has anyone gone on record as to say when those conversations actually started?

OrganLeroy's picture

Do you really think that a GM at the Professional level of an NFL team didn't have a plan in place before trading a headcase like Randall at a position of need? That's just stupid logic. You're a fan, you can panic all you want, jump off a cliff. These GM's are prepared for every scenario, they don't always make the right decisions but the Packers personnel department has proven to be one of the most talented in the entire NFL since Ron Wolf took over.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

That's exactly what I think. Of course, it depends on your definition of plan. Sure, he shipped off Randall "planning" to pick up a FA CB, identity unknown and unknowable at the time he traded Randall, and planning to draft a CB, round unknown and unknowable, identity unknown and unknowable. There is some chance he hoped to trade for a CB, but that too most likely was no more than a mere possibility.

That's what the "plan" was.

Folks who use the "appeal to authority" argument used it for TT, and would have for Sherman before that if they'd been around.

flackcatcher's picture

Sometimes, I wonder about folks who think GM, or any authority have all the time in the world to make decisions. Real world, or course not. The new Packer GM operates in a time sensitive way, just like the rest of us. To think he did not make, to what was him, the best decision for the Packers is, too put it bluntly, stupid. More to the point, BG is executing a rebuilding the Packers been getting ready for, for years. I agree with both you TGR and OL points. Time waits for no one. ( Which at this moment my back keeps reminding me 0:)

RobinsonDavis's picture

I like your point and have been analyzing "the Plan," TGR. For years the Packers have underestimated the value of DBs, and at first, I thought that they appeared to be up to the same this year, including safety. But, the Pack found it within their means to "find" $14 million in their budget to offer Fuller. But how? Although we don't know the intimidate details of the contracts for Wilkerson & Graham, we do know that these will average roughly $15 million combined per year. By my calculations, that would have left them only $11-12 million in cap space BEFORE the offer to Fuller. So they must have a plan in place for a restructured contract somewhere or had been willing to cut some someone loose.

IMO, if they truly can fit $14 million into this year's budget, it leaves open the possibility to sign Burnett, and do a one year deal for someone like Tramon Williams or House or both (or even a WR). But, don't forget they will be dealing with #12's contract needs shortly. Hence, they may want some veteran guys on cheap 1-2 year deals anyways.

John Kirk's picture

That's the wrong question, Leroy. EVERYONE has a plan. Stupid logic? Do you think Brian's plan has come together? Yes or No? TGR is correct...this is relative to how you define "plan".

I'll bet anything the plan wasn't to be sitting here on March 17th without an added CB on the roster after the DR trade.

Panic? Don't know the meaning of the word pertaining to being a fan of a football team. We all know this wasn't the plan. He attempted to execute his plan and has been unsuccessful several times. He executed his plan for backup QB. He executed his plan for TE. He executed his plan for Wilkerson when he became available. He has failed to execute his plan for CB over and over.

You can rah rah whatever he does and call it part of the plan but we'll both know whatever he does now, was not the plan. It's the newest new plan because the original and old ones are out the window.

Brian is prepared for every scenario? That's bad logic. How do you know this? You don't know if he was certain he was getting a player in FA and now that he's failed he came up with a new plan to send an offer sheet to the Bears. You don't know if the offer sheet was a contingency set if they failed in FA or if it was a reaction to failing in FA. None of us do but you're saying he's prepared for every scenario. I believe he's doing his best with the scenarios before him but I certainly do not believe he was prepared for what happened as to CBs when he traded Damarious seven days ago.

Cubbygold's picture

You're making so many assumtions on your way to a condemnation. You're extremely confident that you know what these players are worth, who gute and pettine want on the team and what their plans are.

Relax man, they're working on it. And for all we know, their plan is working to perfection. Either way you can't change it, and they could care less about your approval.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I should have added to my prior post that I think Gute is doing his best, and has the best intentions imaginable. I am not condemning Gute or suggesting that his course isn't the best. I just don't believe that there is some infallible plan that is certain to transpire exactly as Gute envisioned.

I think he had several ideas in mind, and if they fall through, he ties a knot (like Wellington used to say) and moves on to the next idea. A GM can stir the pot, try to encourage a desired event to occur, but there are limits on what a GM can do.

egbertsouse's picture

It looks like Gutey may have to go shopping for CBs with Uncle Ted and hit the old bargain bin for a Tramon Williams or House. Or maybe he will send Herb Waters and Demetri Goodson to Lourdes where they will be miraculously healed and turned into Pro Bowl corners.

GB Jacker's picture

Lenzy Pipkins and Herb Waters - future all world corner tandem. I still believe ;)

packrulz's picture

Hawkins ran a sub 4.4 40 yard dash, Waters ran 4.5, and Rollins ran 4.6. I'd like to see if any of these guys can handle it first, now that they have some experience. If they want a veteran, Ty Williams could fill in for a year. ARod will cost $30mil/year guaranteed, let's lock him up first.

GB Jacker's picture

Lenzy Pipkins ran a 3.7 - he's that good

dobber's picture

He was narrowly beaten by Chuck Norris...

OrganLeroy's picture

Waters actually ran 4.3. He's a taller Sam Shields athletically in every way and Joe Whitt jr. is extremely high on his ability. He was tearing up training camp last season before the injury. It was his 1st year learning the position. That speaks volumes about his potential.

Rebecca's picture

How do you measure those “speaks volumes”? High hopes, yes. Fun to watch him play in August. But hope is all we’ve got in March.

A Pickled Packer's picture

I totally concur, what's the panic all about? We shored up two areas of great need at TE and DE and didn't break the bank doing it. Sit tight , see what develops and wait. I believe in who we have now at CB anyway, all they need is their shot. They aren't all Ladarius Gunter's. For the most part the next great player is the one waiting in the wings waiting to be given his opportunity. The coaches know who they have. McCarthy wouldn't have given his approval for the Randall trade if he didn't believe in who he already has on the team to replace him. Get a vet on the cheap and at the 14th position get the BPA at CB. Why break the bank or squander draft picks. My concern is more at the safety position should we lose Burnett. Going for the home run ball usually results in a strike out. Let the market come to us.

Ryan Graham's picture

I'm not panicking. If BG has shown us one thing with his actions and his words it is that he's actively going out and getting players to improve the roster. I believe they are working phones to get guys in. A trade for Pat P would be bold, but at least he's a sure thing. There are options out there and BG has gotten creative thus far. Very good article, CJJ

dobber's picture

There's time to figure something out. Since the top players are off the market, that bell has tolled leaving the remaining FA talent at the position fairly flat. There's no real need to rush into anything. We might not be happy with the current situation, but the Packers shouldn't compound the issue by overpaying an average or poorer CB out of desperation or by selling the farm in draft picks for a really good player, but leaving themselves unable to do anything else to help themselves...that's Vikings thinking.

There might be a couple cuts at DB yet that could be interesting as teams look at what they've signed this week and realize that Player X is no longer in their future plans. Same might be said about the draft...as teams bring in higher picks, they'll decide that Veteran X is using up too much cap or will only be holding back a kid they just drafted. Those guys might come available in trade.

Johnblood27's picture

packer-people???

RobinsonDavis's picture

Exactly.

Cubbygold's picture

Exactly. Last thing we want is gute rushing outand upping a guy like melvins offer by an extra million or two just to say 'we got a guy'.

stockholder's picture

I think Gute's done in Fa. The CB position is the first position everyone wanted. It even surprised me that Randall was traded. He waited to long. Everyone now saw Nelson get shunned, and get more. It sent waves through the NFl. (Green Bay isn't serious. ) He will turn to the draft. He's desperate now. The apple is not far from the tree. Like TT he must draft for need. Not the future. Not the BPA. Not the player that could be a champion. He'll take the football player that passes the eye ball test. The band-Aid. It's what GMs do to pertect their job. They let the majority, and polls, tell them what to do. If Gute wants to be creative; trade the draft picks for veterans. Veterans they scouted, and wanted in previous drafts. ( for the future.) Heck even Wolf traded for Favre and several others. Gute must become a warrior. He must be more like Wolf! Than TT! If this team is going to be champions again. Trade some picks and get that can't miss player. The missing piece to the puzzle. The player that plays with heart and cares about his friends, family and team. Jordy Nelson loved football and it was never about him. Seems he's the model player to how they should draft, and what they should get. Reggie White Had it! Donald Driver etc. They weren't cocky, and cared what people thought of them. Gute must be like Wolf and not TT. Don't fill the need, Get the PLAYER! The rest fills in.

Nick Perry's picture

FA started 4 days ago and he's already upgraded a roster with a TON of holes in it. He's gotten rid of a malcontent for a player the Packers were supposed to have consider drafting with the pick they used on King. He signed the D-Linemen you were 100% positive he blew a chance of signing when he let him leave GB after his first visit. BUT he still signed him and to a very nice contract for GB for THIS season. There's also that little thing call the salary cap.

Gute was going to have to cut someone, there was NO getting around that. Yes he let Jordy Nelson go. But the WHOLE NFL also saw the Raiders overpay an aging 33 year old WR who is clearly dependent on Rodgers. I don't know about you but Nelsons 2017 season after Rodgers went down scared the hell out of me. His legs looked like toast and I started to see on a regular basis Nelson go to the ground after a catch instead of even trying to get away. He may even start out 2018 like gangbusters, but what happens in week 10, 12, 14? I'll tell you this...If renegotiating Nelsons deal to keep him meant signing him to another year while still guaranteeing him $13 million then BG did the right thing without doubt.

Gutekunst could still draft the BPA and have about a 95% chance on hitting a NEED. The guy has been in his position for less than 3 months and you've already formed an opinion he's Ted 2.0. The draft is still 45 days or so away and Gutekunst could very well trade some picks to move up in the draft. Lets give him more than 4 days into FA before we label him Ted 2.0. Christ let him have a draft before the doom and gloom sets in.

dobber's picture

I think Gutekunst has been on Stockholder's lawn...

Bearmeat's picture

HEY! That's my line @ RC!

Don't steal my bit! ;)

CheesyTex's picture

Unfortunately Cheesehead's system only let me give one "like".

Great comments, Nick.

stockholder's picture

A ton of Holes? Common Nick. He just created one at CB. Randall was Dorsey's ideal. (Hence the draft pick exchange) I gave Gute 6 points for going along with it. #2 Everyone knew they needed a TE! Graham is not a blazing star anymore. (As written on other sites.) I thought Wilkerson was pets idea. ( More than Gute's. ) Blowing him off was not in my post. So who's left Nick? Jordy Nelson's salary. (Another HOLE created @WR) To pay for Graham, when the real prize went to chicago. Lets be fair nick . They lost 4 million on Bennett, And had to use 10 mil. on Graham. The cover-up is Adams took Nelson position. It was his jumping ability. Not speed! And the concussions he's been through. They set out to get Nelson and made him run Adams Routes. And thats what you were seeing when Everyone thought Nelson was losing it. (Player assassination Nick.) Ok yea, they got the money. He knew his production was down and offered to take less. But it should not put him on the bone pile when everyone in the NFL said Hundley was not a QB. Gute has not done enough! And with all the talk to get Cobbs salary, where are the players? Gute is creating Holes and Showing that their close to a Rebuild. Instead of the final pieces missing. Oh this teams all about A-Rod. But lets not anoint Gute as the next pope as you suggest. His draft could be misses. Putting this team in the cellar for years. I WANT MORE NICK. Changes - The offense just changed Nick. It got slower! The Ol has holes nick. And if they go after bulaga $$, another one just appeared. Nick you can't keep making changes and be contenders. It's the pretending that says your good, when your not. Lets not pretend Nick. Upgrades are different from Holes. This team now has holes!!

dobber's picture

"And if they go after bulaga $$, another one just appeared."

Bulaga's probably not going to play until at least week 10 next fall, if at all. That hole's already there.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Spot on. For we Super Bowl or bust types, the return of Bulaga in week 11 or 12, maybe rounding into form in time for the playoffs, logically ought to be worth something. Of course, we have to overcome that hole in the roster well enough to win enough games in the regular season to get to the playoffs but is that a gamble worth takiing...? I'll take that chance myself, though obviously, his medical reports would be handy to have for we armchair GMs.

RobinsonDavis's picture

I see it the same way on Bulaga, and glad someone has said it!. That's why I believe they will go after one of the Notre Dame guys if they fall in the draft.

stockholder's picture

st Brown !

Nick Perry's picture

I've read the thoughts on the Graham signing on other sites, some are good, most aren't. But I also think Graham wasn't used properly in Seattle. Hell ANYONE in Darrell Bevells system worth a damn wasn't used correctly other than Lynch. 3 years for $10 million a year IS steep. But IMO Graham will be everything we could hope for, at least through the first 2 years. I would assume Grahams deal has very little if any guaranteed money in 2020. Until we see the numbers I'm not going to call it anything other than a solid move.

Nelson was no longer part of the solution in GB. Even if Nelson was still here the Packers would STILL be lacking the speed they need at the WR position. That PAINS me to say because I'm as big of Jordy Nelson fan as there is. But the things I saw last season were more than "red flags". Nelson still clicked with Matt Flynn years ago, he didn't completely fall off the face of the earth. Hundley was/is terrible but good lord Stockholder common, Nelson deserves some of the blame.

I'm not even discussing D Adams with you. I get it, you're not a fan and I'm not trying to change your mind anymore. But most of us here like Adams. He won my respect in 2016 and then MORE than backed it up in 2017. Was it a lot of money for Adams? Sure, but what so you think would have happened had he made it to FA?

I want MORE too friend. Lets just give him MORE time than the 45 days in the GM chair. I'm not anointing him anything, especially the pope. But i'm not going to judge him based on a few days in FA and his first draft pick as GM not even made. This team had holes LAST season and it still does. IMO Thompson IS the reason GB is in this position and that will never change. Just like your opinion of Davante Adams.

stockholder's picture

I'll give Gute more time Nick. I don't believe we've seen the real Gute yet. It does look like the time to make money is "now" in the NFL. If Graham helps thats a plus, no doubt. But he isn't the future. By wanting better; I see A-Rods window closing. The moves being made are not life after A-Rod. Most contracts are 4 years. Free Agency is changing the Packers. The loyalty is in jeopardy. The cap maybe the reason now , but the screw them, before they screw you, is coming to the front. A turn off to many fans. People love winners. Not over-priced," it's about me." The packers don't look like champions. The team that spends the most money will win. And thats not the Packers. The packers cannot give a player 3 years to develop. They must hit their draft picks and hit in FA now. A FA is as good as a draft pick! Just don't over-pay them!!! Gute cannot keep the old thinking of building a team through the draft.(too many Busts) The Patriots and eagles both showed why. And they cannot afford to get in contracts that stop them from bringing in players to fill holes. Gute needs to bring in more FAs and not just think the draft. DRAFT speed, Sign the "player", should be their thinking. Draft on the brain is no longer the way to winning. Leadership is. You cannot expect any draft pick to lead. It must be done by example. The packers have lost their leaders on defense. And the offense has only A-Rod. Adams was not the answer.

OrganLeroy's picture

Have another cocktail, you are so far off base it's not even funny.

Ustabeayooper's picture

It is foolish to blow up your overall development plan to go after one player. Overpaying for Peterson will weaken our team. Patience will always benefit teams in free agency. Our GM has shown the willingness to use the FA market to shore up certain positions. The market for CB, WR and QB has been insane. There will be affordable options due to this insanity and the draft. One gets the feeling that because the Vikes went all in this year, the pack should too. If the Vikes don't win the SB this year , their moves will be viewed as a failure. Zimmer has pretty much admitted this. The salary cap is not forgiving. Remember the Eagles a few years ago tried the same thing and it was a epic failure. No games are played in March.

croatpackfan's picture

I think Gutekunst should read this comment section. To get ideas. My God. So many good ideas here. And knowledge about every FA available on the market.

I'm very impressed with knowledge what FA are willing to do. BG just have to offer them what you suggests and they will surely accept.

Also, you knows for certsin what other teams will accept in trade. It is just WOOOOW...

I know that I will get huge number of downvotes for this comment and that some of you will try to educate me. Do not bother. I'm plain stupid, so you'll certainly fail...

But in my stupidity I believe Packers front office are doing their jobs. I believe they are turning every stone for every available good FA left on the market. I believe they are offering them the best offers they can regarding Salary Cap, future Salary Cap, FA value and quality (and experience) etc...

But that is silly belief of a stupid man... So, do not bother with me...

dobber's picture

You're my hero, Croat!

The TKstinator's picture

Mine too.

GB Jacker's picture

Armchair GMs, you gotta love em

fastmoving's picture

You nailed it.......Croat

they know everything........ mostly afterwards,
they have good conspiracy theory one anything and anyone......no matter what the facts say
they think they smarter than everyone with twice there education
they never ever did any sports in their whole life

But its easy to criticise everything with strong words without any knowledge of the risks and without any responsibility.
But if the PACK wins something then everything was right and they knew always.......till the next season, the next game.

........ I guess thats the reason why they only armchairs GMs.

.....................and I rather dont want to know what jobs they got in the real world.......

dobber's picture

"I guess thats the reason why they only armchairs GMs."

It's mostly because bleachers irritate my hemorrhoids. Armchairs are nice and comfy...

"But if the PACK wins something then everything was right and they knew always.......till the next season, the next game."

I disagree here because the "Packers win" posting crowd is significantly different from the "Packers lose" posting crowd. For example: when is the last time we heard from Archie (I know you're reading this, dude... ;) )?

John Kirk's picture

Croat and fastmoving...what do you post for and why do you read comments if you find them so wholly invaluable?

I'm trying understand what your mentality is other than to criticize others for having an opinion which is what this place exists for and is predicated upon. The articles are opinion pieces as are the comments. If you don't like opinions, don't offer them and don't read them. Your mocking of them is ironic seeing you spend time here on an opinion driven website.

Posters here have opinions...you have opinions about posters. You're a step below those you're criticizing.

dobber's picture

Was there sarcasm here or did you really mean to use 'invaluable'?

Bear's picture

Dobber you caught that also. Made me laugh.

John Kirk's picture

Good catch, dobs. I erred in using that term. In reading it, again, I'm not sure why I used it? Perhaps, subconscious reaction to his pervasive sarcasm?

I should've just told you it was pure sarcasm but the truth is the truth. :)

croatpackfan's picture

I said I am step (Step? Only one? Oh you are generous!) below. So, you said nothing new....

I'm so stupoid that I am affraid to give lectures and suggestions to Packers Personal Department. I'm believer...

I also share my opinions sometimes (not that those opinions have any value, but still). But I'm not brave enough to give directions and evaluate profesionals from my home, knowing shit about what happened and who is doing what.

That is why I read comments here. To be informed. To find out that I'm not the only one stupid here. I share my stupidity with Packers Personal Department employees. They do not know what and how to do.

How I know that? By reading your and some other fans comments here. If you doubt in that, try to read what you and some other wrote about what Packers need to do and how they should do that.

I believe you are top manager in one huge organization when you knows how to evaluate Packers Personal Department employees...

So please, forgive me I ever post my admiration to your knowledge and knowledge of others, similar to you...

Lare's picture

Fool me once..................

Rebecca's picture

Croat, your comments and opinions are interesting! I like.

John Kirk's picture

Your acerbic wit is a hoot. Thank you for the Stuart Smalley like pump up every time you interact with me.

Honestly, I'm more interested in your Packers opinions than I am about your opinions about my opinions but, nonetheless, it's fun getting slammed by a Croatian.

May I ask one favor? If I ever post something that is not stupid to you will you let me know?

Spock's picture

JK, One could ask you the same question. Croat and fastmoving have as much right to express their opinions as you do. This is a Packers site, ergo Packer fans comment on it. I don't claim to say my opinions are "a step above" anyone else's or that theirs is "a step below". You obviously have opinions about other posters as do I. To say that other poster's comments/opinions are "a step below those you're criticizing" is IMHO pretty arrogant. I've got three college degrees, an U.S. Patent, and a reasonably high I.Q. My dad taught me something early on, "Listen just as much to the guy sweeping the floor as you do to the president of the company. In fact, listen MORE to that guy as he probably has a better idea of what is real." It's advice that has served me well! I've found that just because I may have a better education or more degrees doesn't make me any "smarter" than a high school dropout. I've met many people who weren't "book smart" who were WAY smarter than me (and I'd like to think I'm reasonably bright). I find your comment distasteful, especially that your comments are IMO very opinionated and to accuse others of that is a bit like "The pot calling the kettle black" to me. My two cents. Croat in particular is trying to write in his second language for goodness sake, cut him some slack. I've attempted to learn Italian, Spanish and French and there is no way in heck I'd come across half as well as he does if I attempted to comment in those languages. I strongly disagree with your post.

John Kirk's picture

Oh, boy... I can not believe you posted what you posted. I'm stunned. Did you read what I posted and understand why?

I'm better than absolutely NOBODY on this earth, however, nobody is better than me. I operate that way.

The commentary was regarding his apparent obsession to rip into people whose opinions seem to upset him, personally. He doesn't like me because of the way I post. Sorry. If you are that insecure that you have to post caustic commentary that is a step below ANYONE who is here to post football opinions. The step below was about intent here. I'm here to post opinions about football not other people or their posts. I engaged him because he's been like this from the beginning and I wanted to understand why?

This has nothing to do with who I think is smart or stupid. This has nothing to do with me valuing anyone's opinion less or more than my own. It has to do with his intent as I perceive it. I've been on boards for nearly two decades. He fits an archetype quite well as do I. Personally, I think it's sad someone looks to be nasty to anyone based on a football opinion but you see it everywhere you go and that behavior is a step below those who don't engage in that type of behavior.

Spock's picture

JK, Yes, I read what you posted. You seem to take Croat's comments way too personal. HIs 'style' in my opinion is to be self-deprecating and then post sarcasm about what he perceives as the way people are commenting about Packer subjects. That seems to be the way he likes to post. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, to each their own. A don't view his comments as 'nasty' or 'insecure'. It's just his style. Your style IMO seems to be to far more 'attack mode' than Croat's. That's MY opinion, seems like I touched a nerve. I've had plenty of comments that people perceived as off-base. For me this particular comment from you seemed that way TO ME. Sorry if I offended you, it just seemed to be a bit too caustic for my tastes. We agree to disagree here I think. In any case we've both said how we feel so it's pointless to continue. I'm done with this 'discussion'.

John Kirk's picture

You don't seem to understand what is happening here. Anyone who dares share a strong opinion that questions the org gets a hearty questioning rebuttal of who do you think you are?

These kinds of sites can't exist if everyone just backed the org in every single decision. This is not a Packers worship shrine where every member of the org is infallible.

Nothing funnier than when you have a poster say over and over that so and so is paid to make these decisions so they're right every single time because you aren't paid like they are...so, they can't possibly be wrong and you can't possibly be right. They'll just trust them and dismiss you.

Nobody in the history of the NFL would ever be fired if the above mindset was correct. Everything is an opinion in this game. Everyone is fallible. MM was wrong on Capers for years. MM was wrong on Hundley. The list is endless but the mindset that says I'll just trust MM wants to quash talk of those things being wrong. Again, this is not a place of Packers worship.

Packers opinion poster: That playoff game moonball Favre threw in Philly was an ill advised throw.

Packers defender and poster critic:. I'll trust a 3 time MVPs decision making over your opinion. You sit on your couch and are clueless. Nobody cares what you think. You should be the QB. I'll call personnel department and tell them you're ready to lead this team.

Spock's picture

JK, WTF? How did you get THAT out of my post?! I said nothing to indicate that I thought "questioning the organization" or that I thought "Anyone who dares share a strong opinion that questions the org gets a hearty questioning rebuttal of who do you think you are?". I simply said that I thought your post was "distasteful" because you were targeting Croat with one of your (IMO) snap psych judgments. Frankly, I totally agree with you about MM not firing Capers (or his buddy Slocum) soon enough. Hundley was forced on MM by TT and MM always backs his players in front of the press; privately he probably was steaming over being stuck with this 5th round quarterback. I LOVED that TT had the balls to get rid of Favre (my wife worked with a woman whose daughter was at that 'Three Amigos" party and it was WORSE than reported).
"You sit on your couch and are clueless. Nobody cares what you think. You should be the QB. I'll call personnel department and tell them you're ready to lead this team." Again, WTF? I have repeatedly said that I am no expert on football or the Packers. I'm just a fan. I said I found your comment 'distasteful' and 'strongly disagree with your post' because I felt you were doing IMHO one of your 'snap judgments' on a poster based on (again my opinion) your seeming belief that you can, somehow, know what someone else is thinking based on an interview, a comment, or a video of someone you've never actually met in person.
I had a Croatian worker who I spent some time with. He was funny, but a lot of people didn't get his 'take' on humor. In my opinion Croat is attempting to be humorous but the language problem doesn't translate well. You have come on recently and Croat has been here awhile. He does NOT always say management is right. I thought (and still do) that you were "talking down" to him. That is ALL I was trying to say. By the way how "secure" would you feel about going on a Croatian site if you had to write in Croatian? Your comment about someone being "so insecure" is, in my opinion, b.s.. John (here I'll do your psych stuff, lol), I honestly like the comments/ discussion you add to this site, but when you start attacking commenters for their (what you claim is "free opinions") take on a question I question if you are, in fact, sincere. Truly, I enjoy your posts. Sorry you think I'm a "Company Man" for the Packers. You are very, very, wrong. I'm a "sit back and see how it goes" type of guy. If I'm coming off like an A-Hole here it's because it's raining today and when it's a "bad back" day I'm more "Mr. Hyde" than "Dr. Jekyll". That's not an excuse, it's an "explanation". Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, but you ruffled mine. I'm getting old and most of my feathers are falling out. Truce????

John Kirk's picture

I would say I don't think, but I can say this...I know that you don't understand my posts. My post wasn't about you. It was directed to you because I felt you didn't understand why this became an issue in the first place. You misunderstood my post to Croat and FM. I was never talking down to them...I was addressing their talking down to me under the guise of you're nobody, I'll trust the pros which is something I know you didn't see in the back and forth that has been going on since I got here with those two.

There are dyed in the wool fans who do think the org can do no wrong. That's just fine. I don't care if you believe that but when your posting here comes after someone who doesn't think that way and tries to demean you because you don't see like them and aren't an organizational acolyte, I will respond to that. That's all my post was about... the idea that someone who would "dare" question the org needs to be buffeted in response because it bothers you that much that you need to respond nastily is a sign of insecurity. It's as if someone questioning the org is taboo, close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears moment. The posts drip with...how dare you... who do you think you are? Nobody here is in the FO we speculate and banter. To go after someone for that under what I've talked about above is childish and needs to be responded to. I wanted to know why he/they were here if all they were here to do is mock opinions and question who you were to offer them? What value could they possibly be getting if that's how they see posters here?

Spock's picture

JK, Okay. I think (lol) I get where you are coming from. Enough of this then. Peace.

OrganLeroy's picture

A voice of reason from across the ocean, since my Dad was born & raised in Poland, I'm a Croatpackfan fan!

Spock's picture

OL, Thank you for your comment. It was needed. Since I'm both Polish and German and we just had the Olympics I'd like to share one of my favorite Olympic jokes:

At the Olympics a man is carrying an 10 ft. long pole over his shoulder. Another man says to him, "You must be a pole-vaulter." The man with the pole looks at him in surprise and says, "Nein, I am a German. ....but how did you know my name is Valter?)

Kind of reminds of the guy who goes to a travel agency to book a trip to our island state and says to the agent, "I've always wondered is it pronounced Ha-why-e or Ha-vy-e?" The agent says, "Ha-Vy-e". The booker says, "Thank you." The agent says, "You're velcome."

Lol. Fun with pronunciation and language. (Plus, I love puns and bad jokes. It's a curse, I know it.).

The TKstinator's picture

Last paragraph: same here!

jh9's picture

If this thread is about getting creative with player acquisition, trading a boatload of picks for a known player like Patrick Peterson isn't creative. Everyone knows he's one of the best CBs in the league.

IDK if BG has done this yet, but he should go to his scouts and their reports over the last four years. Compile a list of drafted players or UDFA who excited the scouts. Find tape on those players in NFL games and pair down the list until he finds a few overlooked gems. 

Each team carries at least seven DBs. The odds are he'll find someone. But that takes work and creativity.

Bert's picture

I'm guessing Gute is doing all he can to fill holes and upgrade the roster with the resources at his disposal. He wasn't dealt the best hand. He has a HOF QB and not much else. Lots of holes to fill in one off season and limited cap space. If it was easy every team would be SB contenders.

lou's picture

Solid thinking Jonathon, I remember when Marco Rivera was graded by the scribes as the teams 5th best starting O-Lineman and was just a "place holder" until they could find a replacement for him. He turned out to be a multi Pro Bowler performer who at that time got the biggest contract for a Guard from the Cowboys ever. Similar point you made with Lane Taylor, panic set in when they cut Sitton, Taylor is a solid pro now, they did not miss a beat. McRray and Murphy may be the next Lane Taylor. Let's hold the PANIC on the CB position until the exhibition games start, cooler heads need to prevail.

Cubbygold's picture

My first thought was similar. There must be less well known guys out there that fit pettine's ideal. Colvin is an example heading into last year...jags probably would have traded him knowing that he wasn't going to get fully utilized. There have to be similar situations where a 5th round pick lands GB a decent young player.

You're right though, it takes creativity

PatrickGB's picture

The team Does Not Have Enough Capmoney To Compete in FA this year.
Yet good players will be signed later. Not great players but good players.

worztik's picture

I thought that “I” was your hero Dob? I’m totally deflated now...

Branden Burke's picture

I don't see why Arizona would want to keep Peterson, and green bay probably won't find a player of Peterson's caliber in the 2nd or 3rd round, so why not throw a pick at him and see what sticks. Maybe the cards would ship him off for a 3rd round pick.

Nick Perry's picture

If the Cardinals shipped him off for a 3rd round pick then I'm pretty sure the Cardinals would be hiring a new GM the following day. Hell lets give them TWO 3rd round picks so we're sure we get him. : )

dobber's picture

Shhh! Not so loud!

Yes, sir, one third rounder coming right up!

Bert's picture

I would be very surprised AZ would let Peterson go for any combination of RD 2-4 draft picks. They want to stock up on impact players just as much as the Packers. If the asking price for Earl Thomas is a #1 and #3 I would assume the price for Peterson would be at least that much.

OnWisconsinGoPack's picture

You know, i may be mistaken, but wasn't one of the greatest players in Packer's history a QB we traded a 1st round pick for?

For those who say, draft and develop, that's the only way...no, that's one way and the way that's been done with TT for some time. Does it mean we pull a Herschel Walker like trade, probably not, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Hindsight is 20/20, but with the Jamal Reynolds, Datone Jone, Justin Harrell, Ahmad Carroll draft picks of the past years (1st round draft picks)...I'm missing a bust OT in there too, we would love to go back and see what could we have gotten if we traded those picks away and got a veteran in return. And suggestions on this board hinting at doing something similar is not far fetched.

If we could get a guaranteed 5 years from a Patrick Peterson or JJ Watt or Von Miller type player, you better believe I'd give up a 1st this year and next.

If I k

John Kirk's picture

Pack did Favre for a 1st. Worked out. With our 1st, Falcons ended up taking Tony Smith, RB, Southern MIss (where Brett played)... I don't think we missed that first rounder. Ron blew the other 1st we had that year on T-Buck.

Pack gave up a 2nd and received a 4th back for Al Harris. I don't think we missed that 2nd. Sherman probably would've drafted an ambidextrous punter with it. Philly dealt that pick in a trade up for Jerome McDougle and the Chargers drafted Terrance Kiel a DB from Texas A&M. That 4th Sherman got back looks like it was used in the trade up in Round 3 to get Kenny Peterson (world's strongest man..LOL) from Ohio State.

The Vikes shipped a 1st and 4th for Sam Bradford when they were desperate at QB. They also once upon a time gave a 1st and two 3rds to KC for Jared Allen. You think the Vikes missed those picks? They turned into Brandon Albert, Jamaal Charles and Dajuan Morgan. Vikes also did the Herschel Walker trade that built the Cowboys that ironically probably cost us a SB, or two.

Trade your draft capital. I don't believe Patrick Peterson could be had in trade. Why give up the best player at a premium position for picks? This is a last hurrah for Larry Fitzgerald. They ain't dealing Peterson on their one final run tour and do that to their new HC.

Jason Verrett is the guy I'd like to see them explore. Not sure if he fits Packers height requirement, though. We won't take a guy under 5-10 1/2. Verrett is listed as 5'9 and 5'10. He's coming off back to back IR seasons with an ACL issue in same knee. Before you say, what are you thinking? Keenan Allen had a similar injury history for them and he put up an all world season last year. Guy is affordable. He's playing out his contract at 8.5 million this year. Do the Chargers want to pay 8.5 million to a guy coming off back to back IR seasons from an ACL injury after giving Hayward an extension? Probably a moot point because he's not tall enough but there are conflicting listings for his height. Not one says anything over 5'10. Swallow that parameter and get that kid. He can play. He likely is acquirable due to his injury issues despite what Ben said in another thread.

OnWisconsinGoPack's picture

Good player, like him a lot, but couldn't fathom anything more than a 4th or 5th given his injury history.

marpag1's picture

Except that Favre pretty much WAS "draft and develop" - albeit one year delayed. Unless we think Jerry Glanville taught him something...........

John Kirk's picture

Favre was trade and develop which is very different than draft and develop.

Jerry taught him that if you get drunk every night you're getting traded to Green Bay. Here's a great couple of quips from Jerry Glanville that I hadn't read until today:

From NFL.com:

"I had to get him out of Atlanta. ... I could not sober him up," Glanville explained in a 2010 radio interview. "I sent him to a city where at 9:00 at night the only thing that's open is Chili Joe's. ... And that's what made Brett Favre make a comeback was going to a town that closed down. If I would have traded him to New York, nobody to this day would have known who Brett Favre ever was."

marpag1's picture

Jerry's gotta say what Jerry's gotta say. I strongly suspect that Jerry chose to make those particular comments because his only other option was, "Yeah, I'm a dumbshit."

Yes, of course it was a trade. But either way, you are giving up a draft pick for some young kid with zero experience. Undoubtedly Favre "learned something." But I highly doubt that Favre was "scared straight" by it. Jerry and others are dreaming if they think that the lack of NYC night life means that there are no alcoholics in Green Bay. Every year, Wisconsin ranks near the top in alcohol consumption and binge drinking. Georgia, in sharp contrast, is always near the bottom.

Spock's picture

Marpag, So really, Favre was actually "Drank and Develop"? Lol.

marpag1's picture

Yeah, And maybe even "purple drank" and develop.

dobber's picture

As my sister, who lives on the west side of GB, always says: Everyone in town goes home at 6 pm to eat dinner and watch "Wheel of Fortune." There is no night-life.

marpag1's picture

Here are the 15 states that drink the most alcohol (2015 info): 1) New Hampshire, 2) Delaware, 3) Nevada, 4) North Dakota, 5) Montana, 6) Vermont, 7) Wisconsin, 8) Idaho, 9) Alaska, 10) South Dakota, 11) Colorado, 12) Maine, 13) Wyoming, 14) Minnesota, and 15) Oregon.

If you want to know where New York is, it's 36 of 50, and Georgia is 46.

Here is a list of the top ten states in binge/chronic drinking (2017 info): 1) Wisconsin, 2) North Dakota, 3) Minnesota, 4) Iowa, 5) Nebraska, 6) Illinois, 7) Montana, 8) Vermont, 9) Colorado, and 10) Pennsylvania.

Are we really saying that "night life" somehow equates to drunkenness? Or are we really saying that drunkenness only happens in swanky clubs in NYC? Or that Jerry did that drunkard Favre a favor by sending him to GB instead of NY?

dobber's picture

We all know that guy who can always find a party...or, more accurately, parties always find him.

John Kirk's picture

Nobody questions Wisconsin's drunkenness factor. Favre liked to club it. So, his drunkenness was about being out in public stinking drunk hitting on chicks and being a prick totally full of himself. (per reports) Going to Green Bay from Atlanta in terms of night life is a major step down. Going to NY would've been a major step up. I think that was Glanville's point.

At the time, nobody questioned Atlanta's decision to move on. Favre was a disaster of a person. He wasn't even in the team photo...too hungover to show up. He and his brother Scott tore up Atlanta together. Plus, Brett was cocky as could be telling everyone he was better than Chris Miller. Wolf really really gambled..and turned our franchise around or we probably aren't typing on here right now.

marpag1's picture

Totally agreed: Drunkenness, hitting on chicks, and being a prick. That was in Atlanta. And those were also the exact same reasons why Deanna began divorce proceedings against Brett in 1999, seven years and one rehab session after being traded to Green Bay. Nothing really changed when Favre was traded. That didn't happen until his wife walked out on him seven years later.

John Kirk's picture

Didn't she do that because Brett impregnated a local news anchor whom he paid off to keep it quiet? That was one of those unreported not fit for public consumption stories from back in the day.

Lare's picture

Lots of stories about the "3 Amigos" (Favre, Winters and Chmura) partying around the Green Bay area back in the day. They were know to show up randomly at some bar in any of the small towns trying to drink it dry and hit up on every decent looking girl in sight.

None of it ever made it into the media (until the Chmura accusation), rural Wisconsin is pretty protective of it's heroes

John Kirk's picture

That's right, Lare. I got a glimpse of who Favre was back in 2001 when an award winning journalist with the AP, whom I briefly worked with, showed me an email he got from a former Packers player, who played with Brett, on what kind of guy Brett actually was. My whole opinion of Brett changed in that moment. I counted the time down for him to leave the Packers. The AP writer couldn't write the story as the Packers player stated it was off the record and if it was ever reported he would just deny and say the writer made it up.

Brett was not who he was perceived to be. The guy everyone came to think of him as when he left was the guy he was when he was here. Honestly, who sends pics of their privates and texts them to a woman who isn't their wife when that wife is going through cancer treatments? I believe in forgiveness and second chances but that's pretty horrible stuff.

John Kirk's picture

I tried renting a hotel room in Green Bay to watch the 2010 SB as I just wanted to be in Green Bay for the moment. Closest I could get was Shawano. After the win, my buddy and I drove to Green Bay to "celebrate"...the place was a GHOST TOWN. I was literally in shock. There was NOBODY on the streets. I'm perplexed about that to this day. A town that supposedly lives and breathes it's football team was NOWHERE to be found that night. Streets EMPTY.

Now, I did go to the sold out celebration at Lambeau which I think was the following weekend that was the coldest thing I've ever been to and I was there for the Carolina NFCCG. Why they put it during a time the sun was down is beyond me. I still can feel the cold and can hear Desmond Howard saying "charctership".

Favre was sent to the right place. Yeah, a lot of Wisconsinites are lushes but Green Bay was a dead place back when Favre was there.

stockholder's picture

Favre was not a danger to society. Bringing up the past is. He still in a lot of peoples hearts.

John Kirk's picture

Treating people like garbage is very dangerous to society.

worztik's picture

We are in the midst of a perfect storm! TT has left the team in a world of hurt, no doubt about it. When you take into consideration his abysmal drafting history, his penchant for drafting injured/injury prone players, his deal making inability, his tendency to keep players out of “loyalty”, no effort to improve the team through trades, his inability to communicate effectively, his love of the praise he received for “finding” players in the middle to low rounds and his miserable handling of the salary cap with his buddy Russ Ball... BG is in one helluva an unenviable position!!! Add all this to the fact that he apparently had no clue regarding how important “SPEED” is to a players overall performance and there lies the legacy of of Ted Thompson! I will support BG no matter what he does for a couple of years. Being creative is not going to be a problem for Gute; working with the arm tied behind his back that TT put in place WILL be a problem! He can only do so much with what he’s been left with and now he needs our patience and unquestionable support......

fastmoving's picture

"miserable handling of the salary cap" ...????

to witch TT do you refering to??

marpag1's picture

You callin' TT a witch??

Spock's picture

Marpag, (in my best Monty Python voice)"Burn him...he's a witch."

Rossonero's picture

While the Cardinals are a plausible trade partner since they only have 4 draft picks this year, we'd have to cut someone else to make enough cap room for his $14.9M cap hit this year.

The good news is that his cap hit drops to $11.8 in 2019, but goes up to $13.1M in 2020.

It's worth at least asking the Cardinals about. Gutekunst knows his defense is still a long way from being Super Bowl quality.

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

Not right as to the cap as applied to GB. Peterson's current cap # is $14.956M, but if traded, Arizona would have to eat his $3.07M signing bonus proration. If traded to GB, Peterson's cap hits would be:

2018: $11.884M
2019: $11.250M (Ari eats $634K restructure bonus)
2020: $12.550M (Ari eats $634K restructure bonus)

Peterson is only 27 and would be 29 for the 2020 season. These cap hits are very attractive given his ability and age. Arizona would have to eat $5M in accelerated signing bonuses. They are going to want a high pick, and/or for us to take a salary back if they have a player that fits and that they don't want.

I wouldn't want to renegotiate this contract. It is too good for GB to mess with. If you're Patrick Peterson and saw GB offer $14M AAV to Fuller, what's he worth negotiating from scratch? Would he be kind enough to say sure, keep that deal and just convert $11M base salary to a signing bonus - sure I'll sign that. Or would he want something for his necessary cooperation? IDK the man, or his agent, but MBIKDI.

Given his ability, age, and Arizona having to eat $5M ($4.97M to be exact) what would we have to give up? IDK, is Ari rebuilding? Guess here is quite a bit.

Could we fit $11.88M under our salary cap without restructures or extensions? Um, theoretically. Barely for now, but September would be dicey.

Rossonero's picture

Great stuff, thanks Reynoldo.

RobinsonDavis's picture

Exactly. Although it's plausible, AZ would have to be Ok with eating $5 million and the Packers can't pay it in trade at this time.

Michael Bauer's picture

I would try to see about this trade.Sure it will take some draft picks.1st round and 3rd for sure maybe a 4th or 5th also.This is a top player who will make an impact right away.

EddieLeeIvory's picture

According to RevengeOfTheBirds.com the Cards have 6 picks in the draft.
1
2
3
3
4
5
7

They lost two 6ths in the Adrian Peterson trade.
They pick #15, so right after us.

I want to show a salary graphic.... no attachments here?

Patrick Peterson is 7th among CBs salary this season.
1 Trumaine Johnson 26m
2 Kyle Fuller 20m
3 Desmond Trufant 15.5m
4 Steph Gilmore 14.9m
5 Josh Norman 13.9m
6 AJ Bouye 13.5m
7 Patrick Peterson 11.2m

Talib is 11.0. Aaron Colvin got 10.75m.
Joe Haden was released last season, and he's getting 10m.

Only 2 of the top 6 are with their original teams.
And Patrick Peterson is better than all of them.
Some Packer kid fans bitched that BG didn't get Johnson.

Casey Hayward is 33rd, at 4.25m.
How does that make u feel?

dobber's picture

Casey Hayward was just extended: 3y/$36M, $20M guaranteed.

Qoojo's picture

If a team improves their pass rush, they improve their defensive backfield. As far as I am concerned, they overspent for Graham.

It's time to look for filling the team with decent depth with middle tier vet FA. Not get "creative".

dobber's picture

(Channeling my inner Roy Scheider from Jaws)

...I think you're gonna need a bigger pass rush.

Qoojo's picture

haha, nice quote, and so true. Last year the packers DBs had to cover so long that even Deion Sanders would have had issues.

John Kirk's picture

You made me angry. :) When I think of the attempts to fix the pass rush they look a lot like the attempts at CB. Dumping picks into fixing it just hasn't worked. Peppers did work. It took a move outside our comfort zone at the time to improve a problem area.

One move outside of the draft can cover for years of draft ineptness. So can hitting on a star in the draft. I'll take the odds of hitting on a FA or traded for player over trying to draft to a fix.

dobber's picture

That's a whole different 70s thing...

"Don't make me angry...you won't like me when I'm angry."

John Kirk's picture

Bill "Atari" Bixby! Most don't like me when I'm happy. :)

For the record, I know it was Atari Bigby.

Spock's picture

Gosh, dobber, you made me green with envy with that comment!

dobber's picture

For those who are interested in the Packers moving up into the top 10, here's what moving up into the top 5 (to 3 from 6) just cost the Jets...

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/03/jets-acquire-no-3-pick-from-colts

Qoojo's picture

Wow, that's what being starved at QB will do. Assuming that this is all driven by need at QB.

RobinsonDavis's picture

It is the essential need to find a QB, and it is muddying-up the Mock drafts. There will be more maneuvering by teams to come, and some of these non-QB guys whom we thought would not fall, just might now.

John Kirk's picture

Jets gonna jet. Fools. Idiots. Morons. That's one of the worst trades I've ever seen. Watch them take Barkley at 3. What is Dorsey going to do...? Take Barkley 1st overall and watch two QB's go off the board that might be who he wants? Take his QB, 1st, and trust the Giants and Jets won't take Barkley? Does he even want Saquon?

Dzehren's picture

Reminds me of Ryan Pace’s trade last year- The Bears with San Fransisco

worztik's picture

And... the Vikequeens just signed Sheldon Richardson... no cap issues in MN, I guess...

dobber's picture

I actually think that was a great signing for them...

Tundraboy's picture

"The Packers have taken four defensive backs with their first two picks in the last three years. What that unit lacks is a leader."

That's it in a nutshell. Insane to go into yet another season with a rookie or 2nd year starting pair.. Pretty sure he realizes that and is waiting for the additional FA cuts. Not sure that it s a good idea.

PackfanNY's picture

Patrick Peterson would be great but very costly in terms of assets and salary. I saw this piece regarding Ronald Darby. No Packers mention but I wonder if not worth a look. He has been hurt (ankle) and he would cost at least a 3rd round pick and maybe a 5th. However, he is cheap as I believe he gets 1.1M in 2018 and is a FA after 2019.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2018/03/nfl_rumors_would_the_eagles_t...

jh9's picture

I don't know if Darby is the right guy. That would be up to BG to decide. However, Darby is the kind of player he should look for. That would be working creatively. Good suggestion.

Slim11's picture

There's lots of good observations in this thread regarding the secondary especially at CB. There have been several indirect references to Quentin Rollins.

From what I've observed in comments here and at APC, there's not much said about him positively and most comments are negative. I also haven't seen much said about him from the Packers. Randall was shipped off to Cleveland mostly due to his, IMO, attitude and work ethic. Waters is a project and Pipkins wasn't much of a factor in regular season games.

I wonder what Pettine's plan is for Rollins. The silence is deafening. At the moment, based upon what I know of Rollins, I hope Pettine, and Joe Whitt, aren't placing too much faith in him.

OrganLeroy's picture

While Rollins showed flashes his rookie year and a little last year before his injury, the fact is he's slow, too slow to play any CB position and now he's rehabbing a Achilles tear, that aint' gonna' help his current lack of speed. I'd bet he doesn't make the 53.

flackcatcher's picture

Packers still like Rollins OL. Played injured in 2016 when one hit could end his career. Played though a ripped up groin till the Viking game. ( Never should have active, but the secondary needed him.) He is plenty fast enough, the issue is his quickness and lateral movement. Will not know until be gets back on the field. Other than House and Burnett, the one player the coaches love. No problems from him in that position group.

Ryan Graham's picture

Wonder if BG is gonna hit the phones for Scandrick or Breeland now. The climate has changed since Breeland came to terms with Carolina, maybe worth another try..

dobber's picture

I'd rather bring in Delvin Breaux on a one-year, Rashaad Melvin-type deal.

Bert's picture

Looks like Dallas will release Orlando Scandrick. He may be worth a look. Not sure on his asking price.

John Kirk's picture

Beggars can't be choosers. What we need is someone tough. That's Pettine. Tough. Scandrick is a fine player. 31, though...injury plagued.

You may laugh but I do honestly really like Lenzy Pipkins. I was there in the stands that night as he made his Lambeau debut vs. Philly in preseason. I kept wondering who 41 was. He had some presence to him, in fact, in that game, he was the standout in a couple of areas. He just had a look about him on the field. Later, I saw him have a bad series of plays vs. Denver and thought this guy is horrible, but, in person, he had something. I used to work with a family member of his, so, perhaps, I'm a little biased, now, but I didn't know he was family that night I watched him.

OrganLeroy's picture

Pipkins has a lot of potential and tackles well and is a tough guy, he needs reps and has to reign in his aggressiveness a little as he got a couple of late hit calls but he's a talent and could make that year 2 jump.

CJ Bauckham's picture

I like Pipkins too. And Brown.

Colin_C's picture

He definitely does carry some tough swagger when he plays. Obviously different positions and leagues, but his demeanor reminds me of Derwin James on the field.

I still think we add two CB's from the draft, and hopefully a FA, but I think the coaching staff also likes who they have currently more than we do. Rollins, Pipkins, Brown, Waters.... They might see a lot of potential from one or two of these guys in practice that we can't. I'm pretty concerned about the CB position right now, but I'll give the front office the benefit of the doubt.

Chuck Farley's picture

I got to be thinking that Petine is reeling knowing that the Rogers contract has destroyed being aggressive in FA for top defensive players.
He has got to be upset of the moves he could not make and the ones our division foes did make

dobber's picture

He's smart enough to know there are no promises in player procurement.

marpag1's picture

Plus he... y'know... coached in Cleveland

Bure9620's picture

There is a ton of time, not panicking yet. I have a feeling BG may be very active in this years draft trading both back and up. I can see us packaging draft picks into a trade involving Cobb or HHCD also.

Cubbygold's picture

Idk about that. Trading cobb at his current salary isn't going to return a whole lot in a trade.

Flow49's picture

You left Antonio Brown off the list pretty sure he’s in the 15 mil a year range

Bure9620's picture

I would like to see BG go after DRC, also Orlando Scandrick looks like hes getting released

dobber's picture

I like the possibility of a DRC signing, too, and given what he would've made with the Giants this year, he could be in the right price range.

John Kirk's picture

Scandrick is visiting the Skins tomorrow. No reported Packers interest.

John Kirk's picture

Whatever we do from this moment forward, I can confidently state...it wasn't the plan. It's not Plan B, either. It's probably C or D which is about the quality player we're going to get at this juncture, unless there's a trade coming.

EDIT: Quick thought on Pettine's potential influence...In NY, he had some CB's on the roster that were 5'8 and 5'9. Brian said we were going to stand by the old 5'10 1/2 standard set by Ron. Perhaps, Pettine can influence there into taking someone shorter than 5'10 1/2...I can't get off the Verrett train because the guy can play. Or could. He's a gamble worth taking and definitely fits the no stone unturned mantra. Verrett is a baller.

Lphill's picture

Chuck Farley why can't you spell Rodgers correctly ? your posts have a Vikings ring to them . I am not concerned of the moves the Vikings made , I am happy they got Cousins he will be a bust and an overpriced one at that ,a typical Vikings move Chuck .

Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

One thing's for sure: Gut didn't bid on Fuller without planning to release Cobb or Matthews.

That raises my spirits, anyway. At least he's looking at making some serious cap saving moves.

Lare's picture

There was basically a zero percent chance that the Bears wouldn't match the offer. I'm still puzzled as to why he did it in the first place.

Hopefully it wasn't just done to make it look to the fans like he's trying and open to making FA offers. TT did that also and often told us "it just didn't work out".

dobber's picture

He made an offer that was certainly acceptable to the player--he signed the offer sheet--so the money was clearly there. Clearly the structure of the deal wasn't what it took to get past the Bears' FO, but he was bringing a knife to a gunfight with regard to cap room. If you're talking about a player viewed as a potential lockdown CB, it would be hard for me (as the Bears) to not just match and worry about any down-the-road bubble payments or the like when they come up.

I'm past TT and I don't really want to spend our time playing comparisons, but tell me how many times TT offered to a tagged (franchise, transition, or even a tendered RFA) player in his time as GM?

OrganLeroy's picture

Pretty bold statement, can you prove that? Have you ever been a GM or managed a salary cap?

Thegreatreynoldo's picture

I agree with Leroy. We could have fit Fuller under the cap without disturbing the contracts of our current players. It may be that it is more likely Gute was willing to push CM3 or Cobb hard for a restructure, but other options remain.

blue eyes's picture

Sign Scandrick or House.

Think Big's picture

New here, but I think signing Darrelle Revis would be a good veteran addition. He is not great anymore, however his play in the playoffs still shows that he can bring it. He is also better than what we currently have. I might add that he brings an attitude that has been missing in our secondary.

dobber's picture

Welcome aboard, Think Big!

Lphill's picture

We could have had Revis on the cheap the last 2 years and we didn't make a move I doubt it happens now.

John Kirk's picture

It could. Revis Island played for Pettine.

Spock's picture

JS, Reports I've seen are that Revis is reluctant to tackle these days, not a quality you'd want in a safety (hence a lot of the criticism of Ha-Ha last year, lol).

Irish_Cheesehead's picture

There will be a lot more veterans cut between now and the start of the season. We've only just begun!

sonomaca's picture

I think they’re going to have to draft corners with both of first two picks. Question is, which two.

DD's picture

Let me enlighten you fans. Two FA good, but the Pack can't do much else. Why? Simple, because we are paying high salaries to injury prone, less production players as per Cobb, Matthews, and Baluga. I may be wrong, bit rhey will npt make a full season, maybe less, Also, Kendricks has shown very little for his salary. Trade him now! The Packers management have really done a very poor job with cap money. Paid big, little production. I always thought the way they talked they were frugal? Not. Kept some players too long.

Spock's picture

DD, If you want to "enlighten" Packers fans it would help if you could spell or at least get the players names right. "Baluga", really? I hesitate to call anyone a "troll" on this site, but this comment smells a bit under the bridge to me. Seriously, dude, there is nothing worse than misspelling a Packer player's name on a Packers site. People will overlook other spelling/grammar issues but names are kind of "sacred" around these parts.

dobber's picture

Any post that opens with a phrase like "let me enlighten you fans" immediately gets a downvote from me.

Michael Bauer's picture

In the past is was all about TT not going out and getting players in free agent market.Now we have somebody who is and let's bitch about how he is going about it.When does training camp or regular season begin any way?Step back and just take a deep breath.When the season is over then make your judgements on how Gut did in his first year.

John Kirk's picture

We can offer an opinion on every single move Brian makes or doesn't. That's the right of the fan.

Just because we suffered through Ted doesn't mean Brian is above reproach. His offer sheet was an embarrassment and should be called out for what it was. Just because Ted didn't use FA doesn't mean that offer sheet wasn't ridiculous.

Nobody is offering a final judgment on Brian and won't until the end of the year. He's been hit and miss, literally, so far. Yes, better than Ted but that isn't saying anything.

Can you imagine if no opinions on Brian were allowed until the end of the season? At that point, it'd probably be... It was only his first year in a bad situation, let's see what he does in Year 2.

Spock's picture

JK, "Nobody is offering a final judgment on Brian and won't until the end of the year." The end of the year is way too soon for a "final judgment" of anything Gute is/will be doing. Judge what we think of his first year, sure. I believe Since '61 and I had a discussion about this on another thread and were in agreement (I think, lol) that it will be several years before we fans can really have realistic assessment of how he's handling the GM role. I agree with your last sentence more. Time will tell and opinions may/probably will vary and change amongst the fan base. -At least it's an interesting change from TT already!

John Kirk's picture

Spock... I was responding to this statement:

***When the season is over then make your judgements on how Gut did in his first year.***

The "final judgment" will be on how he did his first year at the end of the year. I believe he's in a tough situation that was left from his predecessor.

If you were watching a game and we were playing a team missing their two starting CB's and you saw the Pack come out and go 3 and out with 3 running plays on back to back series and you were chatting with other Packers fans would it be wrong to question that philosophy? OR...would you just mind your business because someone typed..."Lotta game left, let's not judge until the game is over." No...you can assess that it probably wasn't bright to run it 6 straight times and punt when you have 12 and they're missing their starting corners. Now, if Rodgers came out in that same scenario with starting CBs missing and launched two long TD bombs in the first two plays, do you think anyone is going to caution about being excited about the great plays and type that we should just wait until the end of the game before we give our opinion?

It seems to me the "let's judge later" mantra is typed when things don't look good or right but completely goes away in the opposite scenario. Why?

Lare's picture

For those that are concerned about Gutekunst's lack of activity in free agency so far, it might be encouraging to know that there are three NFL teams that have made less moves than the Packers- Dallas, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh.

billybobton's picture

PLease post a link to the site/metric ranking Randal 19th.

Log in to comment, upload your game day photos and more!

Not a member yet? Join free.

If you have already commented on Cheesehead TV in the past, we've created an account for you. Just verify your email, set a password and you're golden.

Or log in with Facebook

Packers Tickets, Ticket King
 
 
 

Quote

"I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle – victorious."
"The Bears still suck!"
"A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall. "