Content
X

Create Account

Or log in with Facebook

X

Log in

Or log in with Facebook

Cory's Corner: Balancing Act For Next Head Coach

By Category

Cory's Corner: Balancing Act For Next Head Coach

Just about all of the focus for the Packers has been squarely focused on the next head coach. 

Pat Fitzgerald is staying in Evanston, John Harbaugh could very well be traded to Miami and Josh McDaniels appears to be the frontrunner. 

I think McDaniels could do a lot for a Packers offense that hasn’t made use of all of its weapons. The run percentage (32.5) was the worst in the league, the Packers were ranked 21stin pass routes according to Pro Football Focus and Aaron Rodgers was third in the league by absorbing 45 sacks when standing in the pocket for at least 2.5 seconds. 

But before the next coach can design a play that invokes the majestic quality of pre-snap movement, he needs to command the respect of the starting quarterback. And that’s where Marcedes Lewiscomes in. “I think all of that stuff that happened towards the end in Green Bay all came from the top,” Lewis said on Yahoo Sports’ “Mostly Football”. “I feel like Aaron had his own set of things that he wanted to do, then obviously McCarthy had his things that he wanted to do. I just think there was a little dysfunction.”

First of all, Lewis has every right to maintain an ax to grind. He came to Green Bay as one of the best run blocking tight ends in the league and he was barely used. 

Secondly, this isn’t news. Rodgers is one of the smartest players in the league and he knows this. Yet, this has also been his downfall. Rodgers has thrown passive-aggressive barbs at his head coach when things haven’t gone his way and that likely won’t change no matter roams the Lambeau Field sidelines. 

The reason Mike McCarthy was fired was because the relationship between him and Rodgers had deteriorated so bad that it was beyond fixing. He didn’t get fired because an offensive tackle or safety had a problem with him. This is Rodgers’ team and the next coach must balance that large ego without losing any respect from Rodgers or the rest of the locker room. 

Obviously, the next coach knows about Rodgers and needs to squash any ideas of insubordination. That’s why commanding respect supersedes any possible offensive innovation that may result from the next hire. The Packers need Rodgers to play well but they also need him playing within a team concept and undermining what the next coach wants to do. 

Rodgers is in a precarious situation. He knows that the front office cannot touch him because he can still win games by himself in addition to the fact that the roster is so thin. However, he also needs to be challenged. He always deflects questions about quarterback legacy, but he knows where he stands with his peers. In order to improve his legacy he needs to win and in order for that to happen, he must bury his fear of interceptions. He must get rid of the ball quickly and operate out of either a no-huddle or sugar huddle. 

The next head coaching hire is more about Rodgers than anything else. He must be made comfortable with some autonomy of the offense while being made accountable when he makes a mistake. 

That’s not an easy thing to do and will likely turn some candidates off. 

Cory Jennerjohn has over 10 years of sports media experience writing for several outlets in Wisconsin, Indiana and Florida. Twitter: @CoryJennerjohn

-------------------

Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn

NFL Categories: 
  • Like Like
  • 2 points

Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (115) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

Community Guy's picture

yes, yes, yes. this is why the next head coach hire is going to be such a challenge. things can easily go south for both the new coaching staff and the Packers in general. perhaps Murphy and Gutekunst wisely already had an experienced guy in mind (starting with Caldwell and Pagano). the next successful GB coach is going to have to have a ton of emotional maturity and wisdom. i am thinking of a relationship like what Robin Williams and Matt Damon had in "Goodwill Hunting".

ScaryGary's picture

defense wins championships.

Old School's picture

Of the last four teams standing, I can guarantee you that at least 3 of them are offensive powerhouses.

Rams. Saints. Chiefs. Patriots. These guys score points.

I once read an article that shows that almost unfailingly, the teams that win the Super Bowl have one elite unit (Top 3) and one averagish-to-above average unit (5-22).

A quick check at pro-football-reference confirmed that.

Usually, it's offense that is the elite unit. Sometimes, as with the Broncos, the Ravens in 2000? the Buccaneers in 2005? it is the defense leading the charge.

stockholder's picture

Rams. Saints. Chiefs. Patriots. These guys score points. Isn't that where the next coach should come from?

Old School's picture

The next coach should be the guy who can get the most out of Rodgers in 2019. Rodgers has said he’d like the guy who helped him win a Super Bowl and an MVP. That guy happens to be a former HC with a long history with Gutekunst and Murphy.

Rak47's picture

When McCarthy was fired my first thought was that AR needs a brilliant offensive minded HC to challenge him. But the more I think about it ,especially after Lewis's comments I begin to think a defensive minded coach may be best. By hiring a defensive minded coach the Packers can work to up grade the defense and can hire an up and coming coordinator to engage Rodgers every week in formulating a game plan that would allow Rodgers to execute said game plan while having autonomy to call his own plays on the field. This would require a coordinator with very little to no ego that can sit with Rodgers and point out his mistakes after the game. This coordinator would also act as a buffer between Rodgers and the HC thus automatically elevating the coach's authority as Rodgers and the OC would need to work things out before hand, only going to the coach for final clarification. The only defensive coach I believe the FO has interviewed is Pettine. So unless they bring in more defensive minded candidates, if they decide to go defense could it possibly be Pettine?

Rak47's picture

Correction, they've also interviewed Brian Flores, and Chuck Pagano who are both defensive coaches. My bad on the misinformation.

John Kirk's picture

Pettine interviewed for HC?

Since '61's picture

Just an FYI, Pettine has stated that he does not want t be an NFL HC. He has not been interviewed for the Packers HC position. Thanks, Since '61

Gort's picture

Wow, never heard that before!

John Kirk's picture

He has said that in the past, but also recently said he wasn't sure if he'd throw his hat in the ring for the current opening.

Pettine was devastated over what happened in Cleveland. A very proud, bright, passionate man who only said he didn't want to coach again due to the pain of his last experience and also to make McCarthy feel comfortable he wasn't a threat to his throne.

The odds for Pettine are next to nil but he's the one guy out of all the possibilities that truly excites me.

Rak47's picture

I read somewhere recently that Pettine was either interviewed or interviewing but should have been more diligent in my research before posting. I do however agree with you, when it comes to Pettine I love the guy. He's a hell of a coach and brings that honest blue collar approach that just screams Wisconsin pride. I truly hope if he's not named HC the FO pulls a move like the Bears did with Fangio when they hired Nagy. Pettine needs to buy a house and he and his wife get comfy up in Green Bay. Hopefully he's coordinating defenses in GB for years to come.

Rak47's picture

While he stated that earlier this year he also stated later after McCarthy was fired that things could change as far as how he felt after the season was over. He also did not say he would turn down an interview if asked.

Skip greenBayless's picture

Rak em', I like your idea. I just want to take that idea to another level. How about the dynamic duo of Rex Ryan and Mike Pettine? Rex Ryan was Pettine's teacher. Two totally defensive minded coaches both with head coaching experience working side by side in perfect harmony. Rex gets an OC in to work with Rodgers or just allows him to call his own plays. Rex is one of the few coaches that would actually allow Rodgers to do that I guarantee it. Nobody has mentioned Rex but damn I would love to see it. Rex and Pettine would have a top 3 defense probably by next season they are that good together. We focus totally on defense, a dominating defense and a great running game. That way you don't have to put all the pressure on Aaron Rodgers anymore. He can grow old gracefully and still win ala John Elway with Terrell Davis. I know the Packers FO are too stupid to consider Ryan and Pettine who think exactly alike that's why they won't do it. If Rex Ryan could go to the AFC Championship game with Alex Sanchez I'm pretty sure he can do much better with Aaron Rodgers. Many are looking at what's the perfect fit for Rodgers. Maybe we should ask ourselves what's the perfect fit for Pettine? He's the key and Ryan is the answer.

Ryan/Pettine - 2019

Samson's picture

Guess what? --- ref: Rex Ryan
"The former Jets and Bills coach has not been mentioned on Black Monday as a candidate for any of the eight openings." -- Still hasn't.

Try again.

Skip greenBayless's picture

No shit Sherlock. Did I ever say he was mentioned? It was my opinion of who I would like to be our next head football coach and why. Please pay attention and try keeping up next time.

Rak47's picture

Tell like it is Dash! lol. Dash my man, I have nothing but love for you but I can't get on board with Rex. Please No. no, no, and no again, ty.

Skip greenBayless's picture

That's ok with me Rak. I don't expect people to see what I see or like what I see. Unfortunately I see greatness... an absolute masterpiece if these two are put together. Unfortunately I don't see the Packers going that route. The Packers will go the safe route more than likely which means I am leaning towards Old Schools theory of Joe Philbin being the putz head coach that Aaron Rodgers has hand picked to walk all over until he retires.

fastmoving's picture

"Packers FO are too stupid to consider Ryan and Pettine". I guess most people, with a brain, would say just the opposite.

but at least you can do what you are always do, pray for help. Its the only chance you got.

And the most funny thing is, that I really believe that you mean the Packers FO is stupid compared to you! Right?

That explains everything………..

Rebecca's picture

Like many here, I wish Petrine was a sideline guy engaged with his crew. We’d also know a lot more about him. So far he’s gotten a fair amount of value from a weak roster. Good analysis.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Most of the names being floated around the Packers for HC are offensive candidates. Talking about McDaniels is like beating a dead horse. For DC I've seen Pettine and Fangio's name thrown around. How does Packer nation feel about Todd Bowels as a potential candidate?

packergal's picture

Spader writes "...Most of the names being floated around the Packers for HC are offensive candidates..."

Gates, Campbell, Munchak, LaFleur--"Offensive" indeed!

I am starting to believe oldschool's theory-- the Philbin and Pettine show may be announced soon.

Old School's picture

Packergal, as a teacher, I always enjoyed it when I saw the lights go on. Thank you for being open-minded enough to entertain the possible.

Rak47's picture

Wouldn't it just blow your mind if they hired Pettine, and he Promotes Joe Whitt to defensive coordinator, while hiring DeFillipo to work with Rodgers and let Rodgers call his own plays? I'm hyped up already ! Let's get this show started .

Jonathan Spader's picture

Rak47 I've always appreciated your enthusiasm and our back and forths. Not sure how you developed your own thumbs down club for your enthusiasm but don't let it get you down (not that I think it would). I'm extremely hyped for the draft and FA in 2019. Gute has way more to work with in 2019 than he did in 2018. I wonder how much impact the new FO will have on how the Packers will draft. *Insert BPA argument now* I love how fans say best player like the draft isn't a total crap shoot lol.

I said I would follow my draft crushes Harold Landry and Derwin James. compare him to Alexander +1st round draft pick. I'm still disappointed about James but Alexander had an extremely impressive rookie year and was a blast to watch. Landry was about as impressive as Josh Jackson.

stockholder's picture

James was rated ahead of Alexander. James went a pick ahead. NEEEEEEED over BPA? Size no longer mattered? So expect that in this draft. Kirk does have an argument. Gute did make mistakes. Fact; it is a crap shoot. Gute: 1 point for an extra #1. 1 point for filling a need. His Need over BPA, will get Gute into trouble in the long run. If Gute does not find a way to put the best player on the field, we are in trouble. It took them to long to replace Woodson , Collins, Raji, Wilkins, Bishop. Notice the defense Here? It's taken to long to replace guards, and Finley. And NOW/Current: If Rodgers does not get his way were in trouble. See the connection. Need over Best player Available. He won't upgrade. Gute will only fill the hole.

Jonathan Spader's picture

I cut Gute some slack for his 1st draft stock because of just how many needs TT left him with. However, I agree with everything you said. I just wish James had been on the board for us when we picked. I was so disappointed when he was drafted!

Rak47's picture

I personally think you can only judge Gute's draft in the same reference you judge the players after 3 years. Let's see where this team is at the end of the 2020 season before making an assessment of Gute's performance.

Rak47's picture

Thanks JS. I enjoy your posts as well whether we agree or not. Frequently we agree but do not at all times. I don't take anything posted on here personally and appreciate enthusiastic fans like myself who like to voice their opinions and get feedback on them. Keep up with the quality posts, they're usually long and well thought out. :-}

Jonathan Spader's picture

Thanks Rak47 the sad part is this is me trying to keep my thoughts short and concise. I have a degree in philosophy and think way too much. Glad to hear you don't take anything posted on here personally. I plan on continuing to post I think CHTV has a great variety of quality writers/posters. It is to early to judge Gute's draft in 2015 we thought TT had a steal with Randall and Rollins after their rookie season....

Rebecca's picture

It wouldn’t surprise me.

bbarryirish's picture

Thanks Cory.
Well written.
It seems Rodgers is becoming a land mine to be cautious with rather than a weapon to be deployed.
An ego checked for the greater good will be the next coach's job.
Put that chip (boulder) back on Rodgers shoulder.
Go Pack Go!

Nick Perry's picture

"It seems Rodgers is becoming a land mine to be cautious with rather than a weapon to be deployed."

This comment is actually something that's popped into my mind on occasion this past season and more recently with all the talk of a new HC hire.

There seems to be a lot of questions of whether Rodgers will buy into whatever the new HC will be selling whoever that turns out to be. Many comments about Rodgers strong will, his ideas, can Rodgers learn new tricks and will he even want to? I even read one where they suggested Rodgers is on the verge of becoming labeled a "Coach Killer"

First of all I'm happy as hell the Packers seem to be looking at just about EVERY option available to be the next HC. Clearly they want an offensive minded coach based on a majority of the interviews we've heard of so far. But what is starting to get me a bit concerned is all these questions about Rodgers and will he bend as much as is needed to be successful with whoever is the next coach.

For example McDaniels offense is completely different than anything Rodgers has played in. It WILL take some time for Rodgers to master it and that depends (based on what I read) will he even want to?

IMO Rodgers BETTER bend and bend over backwards to make it work. THIS hire is the one that will determine or play a large role in the Rodgers legacy. So far just one SB. So far he's 1-2 in NFCCG. He's 10-7 in playoff games but 6-7 since the 2010 season. Rodgers could still be the GOAT with a few more SB wins and I see no reason why he can't. My hope is they can make a run as early as next season but it may take Gute an extra year to be able to set this roster up with HIS team. At least we know Gute will do EVERYTHING to help Rodgers and his new HC win.

I'm on the McDaniels bandwagon BUT at the end of the day it's most important that it's the RIGHT guy. McDaniels, Gase, Fangio if they interview him...Whoever is the next HC Rodgers needs to do EVERYTHING he can and buy in. Otherwise his career will be viewed as one of the most colossal wastes in NFL history.

John Kirk's picture

NP...you are one of my favorite posters.

I'm just stunned you're talking about Super Bowls in relation to this team. Rodgers isn't getting a couple more with the Packers. He's incredibly unlikely to ever get close to one ever again.

Rodgers in his prime got to the show...one time. He's 35, broken down, and littered with issues as a man who has grown more and more empowered and full of himself. He now has the richest contract in history of the game. Our organization has suffered signifcant losses over the last several seasons and I'm not talking about Ted...that was addition by subtraction. The scouting department features rejects from orgs with some bad drafting in their past (Matt Malaspina).

Many just look at the car and see the Packers logo on the door and see Rodgers is still driving and the shiny wax from Magic Mark's words and assume this team is still a SB team. Lift...up...the...hood. Look. This engine isn't good. We were a SB favorite this season. How'd that turn out?

It's over. This is a rebuild. Yes, you can rebuild quickly if you strike gold like New Orleans and Indy did in the last two drafts respectively. Brian has 3 swings in the top 44 picks, but it's Brian making the calls. Magic Mark is here meddling more than he ever has.

What gives you the idea we're looking at Super Bowls in the twilight of Rodgers career with a roster filled with holes everwhere? I think many don't understand he's not quite the same guy and moreso that "under the hood" this organization has rotted to the core.

Nick Perry's picture

"What gives you the idea we're looking at Super Bowls in the twilight of Rodgers career with a roster filled with holes everwhere??"

Thank you for the compliment John, I appreciate that.

The Packer Fan in me tells me that!!! LOL...

Well that and IMO Gutes first draft was a pretty good success. That and he at least tried to add FA with about 1/3 of the cap space he's have this season AND the thought of still having to get a new deal with Rodgers. I'll always have my Packers glasses on, xsome morning more so than others. I'm also hoping the "Stink" that developed the last 2 seasons in GB will be cleansed by Gute and a new HC.

Lastly this team went 4-12 and 8-8 in Thompsons first 2 years. I BELIEVE in Gutekunst and I think as long as the Packers "Get Their Man" and we don't start to hear this structure where Murphy is acting like an owner, Rodgers has more than enough. My BIGGEST question is will Rodgers buy in. We'll all know soon enough.

John Kirk's picture

One of the reasons you're one of my favorites is you don't let the fan in you come out. Ha ha. I appreciate balanced well thought out replies and you're one of the guys who does such things.

I see Brian's draft as a disaster minus having the extra 1 in this draft that's going to feel more like a 2 before all is said and done.

Alexander has a signature performance at the Colisseum but never played like that again. He conjures images of Kevin King with his health. I'm always leery of those guys who go through dramatic short periods of going from unimpressive athletes to very impressive athletes like Alexander. It's not wrong to wonder just how he transformed himself so quickly.

Outside of the 1st rounder who didn't bust but is injured all the time what exactly has you excited? MVS and ESB show potential but neither drew raves like Jennings or Adams when they arrived. I'm not sure there's anything else there. Jackson is a bust. The fact Brian drafted him is the biggest red flag in fearing his drafting acumen. Ted would draft Jerrell Worthy thinking he got a steal. Same with Hundley. These guys who fall, fall for a reason. I realize Rodgers fell but that fall wasn't similar as once he got out of a first few QB needy teams up high he was going to.

I think Gute has been a disaster. Bad first draft and 3 swings and misses in FA. He drafted a punter in Round 5 who failed. Vogel was better. Wasting picks on punters and long snappers like your roster is all set and you have the luxury is just simply idiotic. Had they drafted Michael Dickson and not JK it would've made sense. Dickson is a game changer. He gets drafted right before us and we have to take a punter, too.

The worst thing is Murphy. Meddling Magic Mark is not a guy who should be near football ops as you already alluded to.

Matt Malaspina is in a high level job he shouldn't be in. We've lost so much from our scouting dept and FO. It's truly headed toward the old Browns. I said that in April of last year that we were heading toward the Browns and the Browns heading toward us. It's true. They were better than us this year and will be for quite some time. It's called regression and Rodgers is experiencing it and our org has tailed off so the on field product is crumbling and will continue to.

A grand slam hire at HC and a Saints/Colts styled draft can get it back on track but both are less than 5% propositions individually and about 2% together.

Since '61's picture

Nick - one thing to keep in mind about McDaniels offense in NE is that it is at least partially based on the fact the Brady is not a very mobile QB.

While Rodgers will need to adjust to the new HC, the new HC will also need to adjust to Rodgers skill sets and in particular to Rodgers mobility and his ability to make throws on the run. Rollouts and moving pockets work to Rodgers strengths and should be incorporated into any new offensive scheme the new HC/OC develop.

I am also happy that the Packers are considering every possible candidate. It could take a while if the Packers also have some of the playoff teams coaches in mind. Thanks, Since '61

Nick Perry's picture

"While Rodgers will need to adjust to the new HC, the new HC will also need to adjust to Rodgers skill sets and in particular to Rodgers mobility and his ability to make throws on the run."

Excellent point and I think McDaniels is more than capable in making those types of adjustments in his offense and would most likely welcome a QB with more mobility than Brady if in fact McDaniels was to be the next HC.

stockholder's picture

And How many Games do you give Rodgers time to adjust? Isn't that what was wrong with MM. Too many thought we were not ready for the start of the season. Rodgers had to win out.

Jonathan Spader's picture

"While Rodgers will need to adjust to the new HC, the new HC will also need to adjust to Rodgers skill sets and in particular to Rodgers mobility and his ability to make throws on the run. Rollouts and moving pockets work to Rodgers strengths and should be incorporated into any new offensive scheme the new HC/OC develop."

I have to disagree with you Since 61'. Rodgers rolling out of the pocket is part of the reason he has been beaten to a pulp. Rodgers needs to get the ball out of his hands quicker and not roll out to buy more time. That's what led to Rodgers having both if his collarbones broken. Protect the NFL's highest paid player from himself. There's a reason Brady is still productive at 41. He doesn't take needless hits or play in meaningless games and suffer concussions.

Old School's picture

The “old” QBs (and Rodgers is one) who win do their damage from inside the pocket with laser dart dissections of the secondary.

We need to improve the pocket. Rodgers needs to use a check down and get rid of the rock. This running around to extend plays has to end before he’s broken in a way that can not be fixed.

More touches for the RBs. More first downs. Fewer scramble plays.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Great minds Old School.

Old School's picture

duplicating

John Kirk's picture

Rodgers is more like Favre with his off the field baggage. He's a lot like him on the field, also.

He just wants to "make a play" exactly like Brett did. One of my favorite interviews with Brett opened a window into his decisionmaking that we often saw on the field. He said that he never liked to just throw it to an open guy...he liked to hold out for a more spectacular option, the impossible type play, because it was "more fun".

Of course, Brett wouldn't have thrown it away like Aaron...he would've just chucked it up for grabs for giggles, but Rodgers chose to fire it deep many times when he could've taken something easy.

Getting a guy to make the game less fun for himself is going to be a hard hard sell. He wants to run around and try making the plays everyone talks about especially now that Mahomes is making them. I honestly believe Pat Mahomes play this year really bothered him. He wanted to show the old dog was still top dog and failed miserably at it. He's not Mahomes even though he tried saying he was as he answered a question about him earlier this season.

Who is going to convince Mr. Ego that Pat Mahomes does Pat Mahomes things because he's better than Aaron, and Aaron needs to be somebody not as good to be better for his team?

Brett was willing to do the reign in thing in Minnesota to stick it to us. So funny that he came out in the worst possible moment and ruined their first shot at the SB since the mid 70's.

Aaron doesn't want to win, unless Aaron is the guy looking like Mahomes. Look at his Buffalo post game statements. He was livid after a win because he didn't light it up like he felt he should've. The Bills were one of the best defenses (2nd ranked) in the NFL and Tre'Davious White one of the best CBs in the game.

Since '61's picture

Jonathan - I'm not talking about Rodgers using his mobility to extend plays, I'm talking about utilizing Rodgers mobility to make a planned play, not an extended or scramble play. For example, in the Jets game Rodgers used his legs to score 2 TDs. having the option for Rodgers to pass or run puts a lot of pressure on a defense. Do the LBs or CBs come up to stop Rodgers and he throws over them or do they stay with their coverage and Rodgers runs for a first down. I wouldn't do it all the time but there are situations when that will be a very effective call for the Packers. Thanks, Since '61

Jonathan Spader's picture

Since 61' thank you for the clarification. I reject your examples. Rodgers scrambling in the Jets game was Rodgers being selfish he could have just as easily handed the ball off and avoided putting himself at risk in a meaningless game that cost us 4 spots in the draft. Brady is the master of the QB sneak. Rodgers has done a much better job of sliding in recent years. I just want to see our investment protected and I'm sure you feel the same way.

Lare's picture

The biggest problem the next HC has will be teaching Rodgers and the other offensive players a new system. The current system is flawed and no longer successful so it must be updated. Nobody knows that more than Rodgers.

Most of these players have only known one system their entire pro career, but many teams go through coaching & scheme changes. It'll take awhile, but they'll do it. And the team will be much more successful for it in the long run.

Old School's picture

Why is the current system flawed, Lare? I mean you keep denouncing the scheme that we've had a ton of success with.

Even this year, with all the dysfunction, and with rookie WRs playing a lot more than planned, our offense finished 12th in yards, 14th in points, 9th in passing offense and 2nd in yards/rush.

The point is.....the plays work. WHEN THEY ARE EXECUTED CORRECTLY. This is why our scoring was down. This is why we couldn't generate first downs. Because we hurt ourselves a lot with execution errors. Some of it was line play, some of it was Rodgers' injury, some of it was rookies at WR(after Cobb and Allison got hurt, our offense went downhill) . But it wasn't the scheme.

Enter Joe Philbin, who you think just showed up in Green Bay without Gutekunst and Murphy having anything to do with it two weeks after the Gutekunst promotion. He runs the same scheme.

Why you'd rather have a new, unfamiliar coach come in and require Rodgers to learn a new scheme at 35 is a mystery to me. I have researched for almost an hour and I cannot find one single contemporaneous example of a new coach coming to a franchise with a 35 year old QB, introducing a new scheme, and being successful.

If you know of one, please share that with me, I'd appreciate it.

And don't talk about Fox and Manning in Denver, because Manning was new to the franchise. Don't talk about Montana going to KC, because that's a different team. And for God's sake, don't mention Favre and McCarthy because 72.9 Qb rating and a fatal meltdown in the Championship game don't really count as successes in my book.

I don't think it ever happens. I do think the interim guy gets the job about 40% of the time.

Lare's picture

Pretty much everybody I've seen speak on McCarthy's offense say it's old & stale. It's a scheme that is based on the receivers reading & reacting to the defense so it generally takes both WRs & TEs 2-3 years to learn and be successful in (as we saw this year). Yes, Rodgers has been successful in it but other QBs haven't had the same success.

I'm sure I'm missing somebody but I can't think of one single Green Bay offensive ex-coach that's been successful in the NFL including Philbin, Clements, McAdoo, Bennett & Van Pelt.

You want Philbin as the next HC, fine. I just don't agree with you.

Old School's picture

Oh...the "pretty much everybody" stuff. I remember my freshman year in college when the English prof held that up as a rhetorical device known as "bandwagoning". I mean, if EVERYBODY uses Smelly Soap, why aren't you? What's wrong with you?

I don't "want" any particular person. But it's plain to see of the candidates who are scheduled to be interviewed, that Philbin has far and away had more success in the NFL, with the Packers, and with Rodgers than any of the rest.

The offense has improved wherever he's gone: Green Bay from 2007-2011, Miami from 2012-2014, and Baltimore again in 2016. Rodgers likes this guy and has said so publicly. He runs the same scheme that Rodgers has been successful with. A scheme that STILL WORKS when executed properly despite what EVERYBODY has told you.

I have a question: IF the scheme is so bad, why were we above average offensively in so many categories despite having an injured QB, rookies at WR, a dysfunctional relationship between the HC/QB and problems on the line?

Come on. The honest answer to that question is that the scheme works when it's executed correctly. Next year, we won't have any rookie WRs, we'll have a better line, we'll have a better HC/QB relationship.

Lare's picture

IMO, the only times McCarthy's offense has been successful the last few years was when Aaron Rodgers was running it. It hasn't done very well when Hundley & Kizer ran it.

Jonathan Spader's picture

The offense that McDaniels runs in NE is the offense that Mm used to run in GB which hit it's peak in 2014. It was predicated on pick and rub routes that flirted with legality. It ran rampant in 2014 leading to Cobb's most productive year ever.

The league cracked down on GB and has penalized us harshly ever since for pick plays and rub routes while letting other teams run them with no penalty flags. It's very similar to Seattle's Legion of Boom for redirecting WRs at the LOS. That took them to SBs. GB needs a coach who is more clever on how he cheats and NE has the best at that. It's not a slam against NE it's what has been ruining the NFL for years.

Old School's picture

If you go to Packers.com and read the biography of Joe Philbin, his accomplishments in the NFL dwarf anything that McDaniels has done. He's been a HC in the league without crashing them into a 4-12 last place finish or alienating their QB.

He was a college guy for about 15-20 years, then Sherman brought him to Green Bay to help with the Offensive LIne. in 2003. We had a great line that year and Ahman Green had a great year.

In 2007, he was promoted to Offensive Coordinator. We went 13-3 and made the Championship game. In fact, from 2007 to 2011 our offensive rocked, we won Super Bowls, we went 15-1.

In Miami, he was about 8-8 every year. The offense improved each year but the defense got worse (funny how stuff like that happens). He was fired after a 1-3 start and got hired by the Colts, as an offensive coordinator, and again.....the offense improves.

Do you see the pattern? The Offense improves under Philbin.

Plus, you've got Aaron Rodgers publicly saying he'd like Philbin as the permanent HC.

So you have a guy here with a long history with the organization. He returned 2 weeks after Gutekunst got hired. He was made the interim.

The interim gets the job 40% of the time in the NFL. That's just math. IMO, that means that it's Philbin's job unless somebody beats him, and I don't see how McDaniels' resume even comes close to Philbin.

This is a good thing. Philbin will be a good coach for us in the few remaining Aaron Rodgers seasons.

Nick Perry's picture

"I don't see how McDaniels' resume even comes close to Philbin."

Ummm there called Superbowls....Yes I know Bill B is the HC, but some credit must be thrown McDaniels way. The man can create a Top 5 offense with ANYTHING he has available. Don't get me wrong...I like Philbin, just not as HC of the GB Packers. Not with so few left in Rodgers career.

Old School's picture

If we're counting Super Bowl wins as an OC, then credit Philbin with one, too.

And New England does have a top offense every year. In fact, in 2010, McDaniels last year in Denver, New England was ranked 1st in scoring. So I'm having kind of a hard time seeing a McDaniels Effect on that.

John Kirk's picture

"The offense improved under Philbin." ----Per, his time in Indy.

What? The Colts were 28th in total offense the year before he was hired (2015). It vaulted all the way to 10th the following season...BUT...the next season it dropped all the way to 31st or 2nd to last.

The key is ANDREW LUCK. He appeared in only 7 games in 2015 and played 15 in 2016 which explains "Philbin's" improvement. The following year, 2017... they're 31st without Luck.

You have to go back for an apples to apples comparison. In 2014, when Luck played the entire season the Colts offense was 3rd overall.

Joe Philbin did not improve the Colts offense. That's a total bastardization of the situation. A hatchet job. He didn't help it...he hurt it.

Old School's picture

You should take that up with Packers.com. That's where I got that info.

John Kirk's picture

L O freaking L. Packers.com? Stop going there. Please. You talk about a koolaid stand. If you're getting your news and are forming your opinion about this team from Puff and Fluff Central which is what it should be called you're going to be one confused fan going forward. You're going to wrongly believe in the greatness of the people who comprise this org.

Use it for live press conferences and maybe ones you missed keeping in mind that coach speak and player speak reigns supreme in most cases.

I don't need to take anything up with puffnfluffcentral.com ...What I've posted are irrefutable facts based on the finishes of the Colts offense. I have little doubt puffnfluffcentral.com cherry picked the jump from when Philbin got there and conveniently left out ALL context. Context is king. There is none there at puffnfluffcentral.com. For the love of, please stay off of there. That site creates stupid fans. It really does.

What you should be doing is thinking for yourself and going to verify what I've posted not telling me that Packers.com told you so and for me to take it up with them. They...are...a...JOKE. Honestly, it's a site for 1st graders.

Since '61's picture

I think Old school can sort out the fluff and think for himself just fine. He has demonstrated that with some very fine posts since he joined our blog. I don't go to Packers.com very often due to the propaganda but that doesn't mean someone who does go to the site for whatever reason isn't thinking for themselves. It is just another point of reference for getting the latest information or researching the history of the Packers organization.
Thanks, Since '61

John Kirk's picture

'61,

Based on his answer back to me, he can't. That's why I responded as I did.

Here's how the debate went:

OS: Philbin turned around Colts...has history of doing that everywhere.

ME: Posted actual numbers from Philbin's time in Indy with context around the numbers.

OS: Take it up with Packers.com

---Are you kidding? Take it up with Packers.com was his answer? I understand you think I'm a jerk and you feel the need to side with him. I get that. You're really comprimising yourself by doing so by defending him in something like this. I don't have any personal issue with him. Haven't been rude to him. I've tried to help him. Packers.com is a literal JOKE. It's a site for grade schoolers not adults. The only redeeming quality is the live press conferences...and locker room video of interviews with players. That's it. Nothing else. You literally walk away with a smidge of the big picture. You get a nice dose of feel good that has nothing to do with reality. I give you the way OS claims they presented Philbin.

Old School's picture

John Kirk....please read this more carefully than you read my prior post.

I never said that Philbin turned around the Colts. Packers.com never said that Philbin turned around the Colts. That's stuff that you are making up.

What they said, and what I said, is that in Green Bay, Miami, and Indianapolis, the offense improved. That is a fact. How much of that was due to him, and how much was due to other factors is something we can all decide for ourselves.

So.....are we clear on t hat?

Secondly, I'm amused that a purported fan of a team would reject the official website of that team as a valid source of information about that team. Even funnier is the reason: Because they're not critical of the team.

Here's the deal: Pretty much from the time I learned to read, I've read everything that people told me not to read, starting with Catcher in the Rye and moving on through the decades. I'll gather information from as many sources as I can and then I'll decide how the pieces fit together.

This entire kerfuffle is because you didn't read what I wrote very carefully, and you didn't read Packers.com at all. Please read more carefully. Don't put words in my mouth. Quote me accurately or not at all, please.

And if you read the Packers.com piece, and you think it's misleading, take it up with them. I'm only quoting the fact....the fact that the offense has improved wherever he's gone.

Paul Konieczny's picture

John, a lot of folks think you are a jerk. You give proof of that enough

Nick Perry's picture

Old School...John is right about that one. I think Packers.com fires anyone who would dare mention anything negative regarding the Packers. Just an opinion but any team site from NFL.com is ALL daisies and butterflies.

John Kirk's picture

Anyone who thumbs down your post, NP, only reveals their desire for more puff n flufff and less reality.

Old School's picture

So if you were an employer, how would you feel about employees you pay publishing negative takes on your business?

It doesn't mean there's nothing of value there. I had an English teacher in high school tell me not to listen to Alice Cooper....I bought an album after school that day. I'm told not to watch various TV news programs because they're biased...….of course they are. Who doesn't know that?

At school, I'm told not to say the word "gun" or "shoot" because words become thoughts (I always thought it was the other way around). I am old enough that I will read, and watch, and think whatever I damn well please.

You can do the same. That's the great thing about America.

Johnblood27's picture

used to be...

Gort's picture

We disagree on Philbin. Philbin was our OC, the offense was awful, didn't change, and was a big problem.

I don't like McDaniels either as I have discussed in previous comments.

Need someone with NFL coaching experience and agree with others that he must have the ability to reign in 12. Charisma, persona, whatever other characteristics that make a natural leader will be needed for 12 to respect the new HC and to comply with his directions.

John Kirk's picture

We'll never hire him and I'm not saying we should but Kliff Kingsbury is the exact type of guy that Rodgers would love and respect.

Old School's picture

Kingsbury played HS football just up the road from me about 30 miles in New Braunfels. And he had a pretty good college career in Lubbock. Not really much of a pro career. He's had some success as a college QB coach with guys like Case Keenum.

He's only 40, barely older than Rodgers. I think some dude in his 50s with more time in the NFL is going to have more success with Rodgers.

Of course, if Philbin gets the top spot we'll need an OC...…..

Old School's picture

Philbin was our OC from 2007-2011 and our offense rocked. Last year, it was STILL above average despite everything. It wasn't "awful".

Nick Perry's picture

2007 - 2011 they had Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Driver, Finley, Cobb or a combination of them...

2018...Adams and....

MVS and EBS might turn out to be good, even great players who know. But you just CAN'T compare the skill positions between those two periods.

Gort's picture

Apples are not oranges.

Old School's picture

But they both grow on trees, are round, and are used as food. They are more alike than unalike.

Guam's picture

Philbin had his opportunity and he lost it 31-0 to Detroit. The team didn't bother to show up and that is on the coaching staff. No thanks.

stockholder's picture

I don't think that is correct. Rodgers went out. Rodgers has his faults. But Philbin is the only guy that got Rodgers to have fun again. The 2019 season is in Rodgers hands. This team wants Rodgers. Most fans want Rodgers. Management wanted Rodgers Locked up. This is a marriage. Happy Rodgers happy Life!

John Kirk's picture

You don't think the reason Rodgers was having fun was McCarthy wasn't there anymore? It had nothing to do with Philbin and everything to do with McCarthy being gone.

stockholder's picture

No. He was having fun.

Old School's picture

Seriously? Gutekunst and Murphy have known Philbin for over a decade, they brought him back to Green Bay, they made him the interim but they’re changing their mind about him because of a meaningless season finale?

That’s how you think the top executives of a half-billion $$$$ a year business make decisions? No.

Old School's picture

duplicate.

egbertsouse's picture

I think McDaniel might go to thr Browns but I wouldn’t mind seeing him in GB, locking horns with AR12.

jeepingmakooi's picture

Browns have already said they are not interested in him

John Kirk's picture

Are you referring to Adam Schefter who only said they haven't set up anything with him officially but may have communicated through back channels already?

McDaniels is not doing ONE interview and taking this job without even attempting to jack up the price.

CDC Dave Retired's picture

Philbin has a zero per cent chance of becoming the next HC.
It is time to exorcise the ghost of Ray Rhodes and I don't mean 'Ghostbusters'.
Yes, Eric Bieniemy is the man.
Holmgren>Reid>Bieniemy
Read It
Learn It
Know it

Gort's picture

I too would like Bieniemy to be part of the discussion for us, but his name is rarely mentioned. Maybe he is the dark horse candidate that gets the job.

For the PC Police - there are no racial connotations with that term, so bite me.

jeepingmakooi's picture

I'm hoping Rodgers and the new HC have many conversations this off-season on scheme and concepts of the new offense I want to see him ball out with another MVP

Coach JV's picture

The author states, "The reason Mike McCarthy was fired was because the relationship between him and Rodgers had deteriorated so bad that it was beyond fixing."

I don't believe this... I think MM was fired because Every. Single. Person. who watches football could predict the play from their couch. ... so opposing D's certainly could too.

That is why MM was so vocal about his "playbook redesign" and bringing back Philbin, and whatever else. He had been put on notice and didn't have the creativity to overcome it.

Rodgers recognized this and (right or wrong) took matters into his own hands. Alas, while AR is a a future hall of famer, he is not a "play designer"... so it didn't work out that well.

But back to the point, MM got MM fired., no one else did.

Old School's picture

If every single person could predict the play..

...and our coach was no good (he did get fired)
...and our line had problems (as many blowhards here insist)
...and our TE wasn’t very good (as many blowhards here insist)
...and we only had one good vet receiver

Then how did we finish 9th in passing offense and 2nd in yards/rush? Is it possible the plays worked when they were executed?

IMO, some of the assumptions in the IF statement need to be challenged.

Gort's picture

Based on our upcoming draft position, we are 20th place in the league.

Not sure we are watching the same team as you are watching.

Old School's picture

Failure to read carefully, Gort.

WHAT I SAID is that the OFFENSE was actually above average, despite all the problems we had this year. You add that to a defense that took a lot of injuries and the worst special teams units ever and that makes the team about....20th.

Stop perpetuating the myths. The offense struggled but moved the ball pretty well. Our yards/rush was outstanding. We were the 9th best passing offense in the league.

Gort's picture

The only stat that matters is 6-9-1.
That is not a myth.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Old School's picture

Why did we finish 6-9-1, Gort?

Facts don't become something different just because you call them stats. I mean, in your personal life......do you just disregard facts as unimportant?

Gort's picture

Simple numbers that are calculated into stats can be quite misleading. Reconsider our discussions regarding Graham. Technically the stats may show he was at or near top 10 TE, but his impact on the field surely contributed negatively to bottom line at 6-9-1. I don't get to see every game and don't have time to review every play and every player to the level of detail that Andrew Herman does. The top 10 stats you quote are misleading because they are simple stats. They don't consider all the intangibles that go into the total package, which was graded by Andy as -6.00 or 3rd lowest on the Packers offense. Had his impact on the field been at or near that of a top 10 TE, it is probable that the 6-9-1 final result would have been better. Not trying to say Graham was solely responsible for 6-9-1. Plenty of blame all around for that.

Facts at home are not easily translated into numbers and therefore into stats. Again, apple's are not oranges (not the same for comparison).

Good dialogue Old School, take care!

Coach JV's picture

We finished 9th in passing and 2nd in Yds per Rush because of the sheer talent of 2 guys named Aaron.

Btw... I'm assuming you looked that up, I'm not taking the time to do so because it's irrelevant to this conversation.

As far as our line is concerned, just look at how many people made it to the QB through the middle of it.
As far as our TE is concerned, that would be on MM's play designs as well as double teams.
As far as one good vet receiver... well, Cobb can't stay on the field, and neither could Gmo...
You see, a good coach would have schemed more passes to RB's and TE's.

Next question...

Old School's picture

Rodgers took over 40 sacks after 2.5 seconds. How long is the line supposed to keep these guys out? 3 seconds? 3.5? 5.0?

I am sorry that you think that football is an individual sport, where individuals overcome their crappy teammates in order to achieve. I'm especially sorry for the guys that have to line up for you, knowing that unless they're a star they're part of the problem and really not responsible for success in any way.

How do you know what McCarthy schemed or didn't as far as passes to RBs and TEs? You are aware, aren't you, that Rodgers changes the plays. How often, I don't know, but ultimately it's up to him, not the coach, where the ball gets thrown.

Coach JV's picture

You've never actually played the game... have you?

It shows.

Old School's picture

Played, coached, and scouted from the time I was about 6 until I retired at 50 with a little time off for the military. Actually got paid for many years to break down film and teach football to young men. Then I officiated for a couple of years, and I got paid forthat, too.

Jonathan Spader's picture

"MM got MM fired., no one else did." Want to tell that to Winston Moss who rightfully got fired. For Zook it's only a matter of time.

Coach JV's picture

Sure... he just had an ax to grind because he didn't get made Interim Coach when he held the title of "Assistant Head Coach"

stockholder's picture

1. Look at the schedule next year. Then ask yourself; what coach could you hire that can beat these guys? Murphy must get this right. I don't like the choices so far. The guy will have work to do. Murphy was nuts to ask some of these guys. He's better off staying with what he has. ( to make Rodgers happy. ) I don't like it. But why hire a fool? Murphys smarter move is to hire Philbin and keep pettine. Like I said," I don't like it." But these guys are going to shit their pants, and us with them. 1 game at a time. Plan on the injuries. Sign more free agents. The depth is so important this coming year. If there is to be No doubt in Green Bay. Stay with what makes Rodgers happy. The packers currently don't have the team to make it through 2019. The draft can only help so much. Taking the good with the bad isn't the right move. The 2019 season is in Rodgers hands. No NEW scheme is going to work, if you don't have the people to make it work.

Jonathan Spader's picture

Aka the Packers will only go as far as Rodgers takes them.

Old School's picture

Because it's not really a team sport and it's all about one or two great guys...…..

No. Rodgers has to play better but the team around him has to play better too. Just better special teams play would have won us two more games this year. A little better defense would have maybe won us another.

We need to put a better pocket around Rodgers, and design the offense so that he gets the ball to the backs more and scrambles around less and stays healthy for the season.

Not impossible at all. But if Rodgers plays well, it'll be because we do some things to help him play better. It's a team game.

Coach JV's picture

Here you are saying we need to put a better pocket around Rodgers... yet your reply to me in an above post was "How long is the line supposed to keep these guys out? 3 seconds? 3.5? 5.0?" as if the line was doing great...

Pick one side of your mouth and talk out of it dude... you are not good at talking out of both sides... LOL, SMH

Jonathan Spader's picture

I love the moment that light bulb comes on Coach JV! It makes me feel good as a teacher.

The TKstinator's picture

@Stock: I will do no such thing in my pants, regardless of any and all things GB.

Old School's picture

So Stockholder has stated that the smart move is to hire Philbin and keep Pettine.

Welcome to the dark side.

sonomaca's picture

Too many chefs in the kitchen. Murphy, Gute, head coach, Rodgers, Ball. No idea who’s in charge.

Coach JV's picture

Yeah... I'm not fond of this power structure either. Coach should report to Gute, period. Ball has no real authority, so he can report to the janitor for all I care, but Coach needs to report to Gute.

Old School's picture

Ball has no real authority...……
When Khalil Mack was possibly available, it's entirely possible that McCarthy wanted him. What coach wouldn't"? And it's entirely possible that Gutekunst wanted him, for the same reason. Do you think Ball had any input on what the contract would do to our finances?

Answer = yes.

Did we get Mack? Answer=no. Why? Because the guy with no authority told Murphy that it was too big of a cost? Maybe? Ya think?

When Gutekunst wanted to lock up Rodgers for the rest of his career, do you think Ball had to find a way to make that happen?

I like this threeway under Murphy. If there's a consensus, it makes his job easier. If there's disagreement, he gets to listen to all sides.

Coach JV's picture

You like threeways under Murphy huh? Whatever floats yer boat man...

But seriously though, you mistake advice with authority. Ball didn't make anyone do anything. A rookie GM just dropped the ball. But at least he didn't trade all of our next 2 years picks for Gruden or something stupid like that.

Your argument holds no water dude.

sonomaca's picture

Had the Pack gotten Mack, Rodgers probably doesn’t get hurt week one, even though he’s not the one who inflicted the blow. The Packers defense is probably much, much better. The Bears defense is probably much worse.

It’s entirely possible that the Packers are division champs and McCarthy is still with us, so mixed blessing there.

Gort's picture

The Chefs play next week.

sonomaca's picture

Good one. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the Pack hire two or three head coaches. Murphy, Gute, and Rodgers can each have a personal head coach. The coaches can then vote on each decision.

The Packers organization chart is a circle, so the multicoach structure works perfectly.

Old School's picture

Murphy is in charge.

Gutekunst is in charge of personnel related matters and reports to Murph.

The HC is in charge of the product on the field and reports to Murph

Ball is in charge of keeping the club financially healthy and reports to Murph.

Rodgers is a player who works with the HC to help the team win games.

The TKstinator's picture

I heard recently that Murphy set the FO up this way to AVOID the “isolation/separation” that marked the TT years. Interesting.

LeotisHarris's picture

It is interesting, TK. Murphy, in America's Dairyland, went on an anti-silo rampage to facilitate synergy. This bold paradigm shift, intending to deliver results that endure, hindered the organization's ability to move forward with the work with due diligence. If I've missed any corporate-speak, please reach out, or circle back at your earliest convenience.

FACTS: we knowz fo sho when Vinceabardi said "jump" players said "how high." One time Jim Ringo came in and said he gots a agent and Vinceabardi traded him to the Eagles faster than you can say "Bob's your Uncle." That's what we needs to be winners. REAL leadership! Know how many coaches Vincaabardi had? Four! He had 4. Didn't need no Vice Assistant Head Coach of Quality Control - Linebackers. Ron Wolffe got Reggie White and Brefarv. TT left the cupboard bare and now Gute dropped the ball and everyone should be fired. And McCarthy was fat. And someone should be held accountable. And unless you're (your) a real fan stop posting here. Thanks.

P.S. Is there a sweeter, more satisfying way for the winners of the Kahlil Mack Mortgage Your Franchise Sweepstakes to exit the playoffs? A double freaking doink fg after the world's most ferocious defense surrendered the winning touchdown in the final minute of play.

Log in to comment, upload your game day photos and more!

Not a member yet? Join free.

If you have already commented on Cheesehead TV in the past, we've created an account for you. Just verify your email, set a password and you're golden.

Or log in with Facebook

 
 
 

Quote

"A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall. "
"The Bears still suck!"
"I firmly believe that any man’s finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle – victorious."