Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - There's Safety in Speed
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
Safety in Speed or Speed in Safety? - Well, both actually. The Packers have been methodically improving their speed on defense, something that had been obviously lacking on the teams of the late teens. One area that had been somewhat neglected (Darnell Savage not included) was the safety position. They haven't done much in the draft at the safety position since drafting Savage, but the Packers have addressed the safety speed issue in free agency. Over the last two years, the Packers have added Rudy Ford (4.40, 9.19 RAS), Tarvarius Moore (4.32, 9.23 RAS), and Jonathan Owens (4.43, 9.69 RAS). One of these three will pair with Savage (4.36, 8.37 RAS) this year to make a pretty darn fast safety tandem. Whether that speed translates into excellent play at the back of the Packers' defense is something we will have to wait and see.
Speaking of Speed - Let's not diminish the additions on offense. Luke Musgrave (4.61 40yd) has caused a lot of dropped jaws and wide-eyed looks during camp. Tucker Kraft is no slouch (4.69 40yd), despite appearing to be a bit bulkier than Musgrave (even though their weight difference is less than 10 pounds). Jayden Reed ran a 4.45 40 yd at the Combine, but looks faster than that on the field, which lines up with the fact the Packers unofficially timed him at 4.37 during pre-draft workouts. Maybe the Packers' opponents should have picked up some speedy safeties like the Packers did.
Plying his Kraft - WIth all the (well-deserved) hype Luke Musgrave is getting (including from me), the Packers' OTHER rookie tight end has been completely overshadowed. Well, I feel like it's time we were all reminded of the skill set and the potential that Kraft possesses and here's a quick little something to get you thinking.
Let's take a minute and a half to talk #Packers rookie TE Tucker Kraft pic.twitter.com/qTfEBdIL92
— Chris Trapasso 🏈 (@ChrisTrapasso) June 27, 2023
In the Fold - Not that we were ever worried, but the Packers' first-round pick Lukas Van Ness officially signed his contract with Green Bay. For the next four or five years at least, we will hopefully be watching the Luke Ness Monster terrorizing opposing offenses. Next up are Luke Musgrave and Jayden Reed.
A LOT of Tailgating - Good news for you Lot 1 crazy tailgaters. The renovations that were going underway there are completed and you'll be able to once again do your ski shots, down your brats and beer and sing your rowdy songs before games. GoPackGo!
See ya in a few weeks - As stated last week, I'll be taking the next two weeks off from this column. Part of that time will be spent in Ocean City Maryland. If anyone has any tips on things to do, places to see or where to eat, leave a comment.
Go Pack!
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of various hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He's a lifetime Packers fan living in the land of the Giants (and Jets). Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
__________________________
Comments (104)
Lphill
June 28, 2023 at 06:31 am
It would be fantastic if both tight ends contribute right away and nobody would benefit more than Love.
dobber
June 28, 2023 at 08:31 am
While it felt from the start that each of Kraft and Musgrave would have very different roles--pass-catcher v. blocker, Tonyan v. Lewis--in the Packers offense, the early indications are that the Packers don't see them that way. They seem to like Musgrave's chances of being a decent blocker off the bat.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
June 28, 2023 at 08:51 am
The beauty of drafting Musgrave & Kraft is that they will always be compared and competition will be fierce. There will never be a moment where they are not balling out pushing each other to be the best. The drafting of these two young men will be looked at as some of Gutey's best work in the coming years. They are going to make the offense extremely dangerous. I absolutely love the drafting of these two.
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 09:50 am
"Nobody will benefit more than Love". Except maybe the Packers. LOL
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 06:35 am
Thanks, Al. Great as always. The "dark days of the offseason" truly don't start until after you begin your vacation...!!!
Safety is going to be lit this year with competition. Most compelling battle to me is Darnell Savage. His production has plummeted since his rookie season, making me think he gets bounced off this 2023 roster. I was an enormous fan of his drafting, and find that realization most disappointing.
Our #1 target next draft might be Safety, in a far better Safety class. If not? Gutekunst will have outdone himself in FA, and maybe the light went on for Savage. I do like all of our additions there, and that position needed improvements, plural.
I would not be surprised to see Moore & Owens as our starting Safety tandem in 2023. Stoked for Johnson Jr.’s chances to possibly win a starter spot in TC too. He’s good enough to pull it off.
Tucker Kraft?
Forced Missed Tackle Rate of 27%.
67% Win Rate in Contested Catches.
Those are insane figures, indeed! That to go along with his high RAS helps me realize a bit more why he was the #18 Player Overall in Athlon’s Top 100 Players from its NFL Draft Preview published prior to the Combine.
“What a great pick” was my first reaction at #78. Huge value. I can’t wait to see him & Musgrave (Athlon’s #23 Overall in their Top 100 Players), working their trades at the same time for our Packers.
Let’s hope Athlon’s early predictions on our TEs was right. If this Packers team has both Musgrave and Kraft lighting it up this season? Look out, NFL.
GregC
June 28, 2023 at 08:25 am
It would be a shocker if Savage did not make the team this year. I think he will probably step up his game with his career on the line. At least the team has some legitimate options if Savage falters though. I like the idea of Moore and Owens starting if they earn it. Get some new blood in there. And if that happens, you could be right, and Savage may be done in Green Bay.
TKWorldWide
June 28, 2023 at 10:24 am
He did seem to improve after his benching. And now he’s in a do or die situation. We shall see. He’s definitely got competition, and the G will be better off for it!
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 10:49 am
I'm still holding out hope that Savage delivers the goods. In the back of my mind I cannot quite reconcile the unknown Jerry Gray component, and how his coaching against Barry's directives may have factored into poor play by both Savage and Amos, and maybe others?
Maybe one day that winds up in a book that comes out...
Savage was one helluva player at Maryland, had a good rookie season in GB, played through some injuries in years to follow, and I'm just wondering where that marauding 4.3 ballhawk star we drafted went?
He was supposed to be perfect to both range as a FS and cover the slot at the star position. I'm hoping he can turn it around, because this season? With an unending pass rush? Those ballhawks could be in business.
TKWorldWide
June 28, 2023 at 11:55 am
Same page, brochacho.
dobber
June 28, 2023 at 08:35 am
"“What a great pick” was my first reaction at #78. Huge value."
One of those players who, when he was still on the board, you wonder how he could still be there.
That said, this year's TE class didn't get the draft billing in general that some were thinking it would. Some were saying "4 TEs in round 1". Certainly, the TE position was well-represented on day 2, but it also shows that it's not valued by GMs quite like it is by draftniks.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 10:02 am
Absolutely, dobber.
I think much of that had to do with the denotation of that top group being considered"1st Round talents..." add into that Darnell Washington's previously undisclosed knee injury, and the priorities could have shifted. The Georgia TE who I pined for for months was ranked #19 overall in Athlon's Top 100 listing... again, published pre Combine.
Kincaid went R1 at #25 (BUF).
"Well-represented Day 2" is so right. Laporta #34 (DET), Mayer #35 (LVR), Musgrave #42 (GB), Schoonmaker at #58 (DAL) and Strange at 61 in R2 (JAX).
Kraft turned out a shocker, indeed, at #78 (GB) in R3, followed by Washington at #93 (PIT) and Latu at #101 (SF).
TEs are rarely taken in R1, even if they have R1 grades. In the 17 years since Mercedes Lewis was drafted in 2006, there have only been 2 drafts where more than 1 TE was selected in Round 1 (2017 with 3, and 2019 with 2).
ZERO TEs selected R1 in 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, 2020 and 2022.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
June 28, 2023 at 09:00 am
I too loved the Savage pick! Not many question his talent, so for me it only comes down to his desire and motivation. Therefore, the question needing to be asked when desire & motivation is brought into the conversation is...can you depend on him to be committed and motivated throughout the season?
DoubleJ
June 28, 2023 at 11:01 am
I think Savage's problem is the Barry D. Barry tries to put square pegs (Savage) into round holes (Savage's role on the field). As much as I didn't like Pettine, he used Savage to his strengths in 2020 and Savage looked like an ascending player.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 11:31 am
You might be onto something, DoubleJ. For a while now, I've been thinking the Packers are implementing an entirely different kind of defense where players can switch positions from pre snap looks to post snap. It's possible that Savage might not fit what they want to do in that multi-positional sense.
Just a guess.
SicSemperTyrannis
June 30, 2023 at 02:53 am
I love Moore's speed on paper. The question is, does he get to the play and does he hit or does he TACKLE?
I'd actually be surprised to see Musgrave and Kraft on the field at the same time a lot in regular season. I wonder if the FO is downplaying their differences to try to deflect league attention? I think pairing the appropriate TE and RB together could be a key to successful plays. Hopefully we get to see MLF do that ...
SicSemperTyrannis
June 30, 2023 at 03:00 am
I just looked over #26 career stats. I'm not seeing the big falloff you refer to. The whole defense had a down year.
croatpackfan
June 28, 2023 at 06:54 am
First of all, I wish you pleasenet, safe and enjoyful vacation.
Regarding safety, with all the additions before, during and after draft we can say surely that safety position are now the strongest position group on Packers roster. Lot of speed, some experience and some good tackling abilities from each of the players listed as safety on the Packers roster at the moment. Adding draft pick to the group it is now remarkable group and I would not be surprised if Packers D will often play with 3 safety at times.
Jayden Reed is, by MHO very intriguing player. I think that many fans, as well as opponents DCs will be surprised by his playing abilities, speed and knock to win contested catches. Only question is how much he will play.
Packers are used to see "6 lineman" with the OL - in the past that was more or less duty for Mercedes Lewis. I think Kraft will be used often with similar duties on the line. But, despite he will be downgrade from Lewis in blocking department at first, he will be more threat as additional target, especially when we take into the account his possibility to make some good YAC.
A LOT of Tailgating - Packers are preparing the site of the 2025 Draft Event by improving all neccesary space and buildings for that. Who knows, maybe even SB will come one day to Lambeau Field.
SicSemperTyrannis
June 30, 2023 at 03:06 am
I'd hope DeGuara gets used in the blocking role more than Kraft. As you say, Kraft is a YAC machine. It would also be interesting to see both blocking for Quadzilla!
Guam
June 28, 2023 at 06:56 am
Enjoy your vacation Al!. Well earned and deserved.
stockholder
June 28, 2023 at 07:22 am
I love all the positives, Hard work by the team.
But why wasn't it done before Rodgers left?
If Love Fails with all these new changes.
Who takes the blame?
Lombardi resigned because of the Board of directors.
And we saw how many coaches and Gms before Wolf.
It just didn't happen with us, but others like the Dolphins too.
With Murphy soon leaving. And the stakes so high with Love.
The players being brought in by Gutey, have saved his bacon.
But who will save the Packers from him, if history repeats itself.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 07:37 am
What the fuck? Get over it already.
BAMABADGER
June 28, 2023 at 07:52 am
SH's huge AR man crush continues. He needs to seek help.
BradHTX
June 28, 2023 at 07:57 am
The Packosphere has room for all opinions.
Mine that this site should have an “Ignore” feature like APC’s.
dobber
June 29, 2023 at 06:10 am
APC? Never heard of it... ;)
Untylu1968
June 28, 2023 at 08:01 am
I'm not saying he was, but maybe it wasn't done before Rodgers left because he was becoming a cancer, and the young guys just didn't care for him? Hence, we'll see a renewed attitude, which right or wrong can happen with the removal of a deva.
Vachio
June 28, 2023 at 08:25 am
I swear, you probably find fault with orgasms. Meh, it wasn't as good as that time back in '87 with that Iranian girl and the donkey.
TXCHEESE
June 28, 2023 at 08:41 am
I don't care who you are, that's funny! People always complain Rodgers never got any help. He had arguably the best WR group in the NFL 3 - 4 years running with Driver, Jordy, Jones, Cobb, Jennings, Adams. Don't say he didn't have help.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
June 28, 2023 at 09:04 am
SH should do his own column called "Confessions Of A Polluted Soul"
JerseyAl
June 28, 2023 at 09:49 am
At some point, you just have to move on. Break free from those chains. Root for the Packers team you have and enjoy being a fan. GoPackGo!
PeteK
June 28, 2023 at 10:14 am
Yes, eventually change is imminent and usually good.
stockholder
June 28, 2023 at 02:40 pm
I have moved on. I do enjoy being a fan.
It only crossed my mind, because the
Stockholders packet came in the mail.
I thought the before Rodgers left, was a fair question.
Since the word “REBUILD" has been in the conversations.
I ran across the Lombardi feud surfing the internet.
And let's not forget why Mike Holmgren left for the Seahawks.
This whole thing got turned around
because I won’t give Gutey a free ride.
(Especially When it comes to Love.)
Will there be accountability, now that Rodgers left?
Great minds don’t always think alike.
But we can all say Go Pack Go.
jannesbjornson
June 29, 2023 at 08:36 am
I would give him a free ride, straight out the door.
stockholder
June 29, 2023 at 01:40 pm
You follow the draft.
Nicely put.
Tundraboy
June 29, 2023 at 12:09 am
I dare anyone to down vote this. GPG Al!
TKWorldWide
June 28, 2023 at 10:28 am
The one Trick. pony
Is At It again
Still stuck on That. Single sour
note
Since'61
June 28, 2023 at 10:42 am
Stockholder - Lombardi resigned because the Redskins offered him part ownership of the team. He also wanted to return to coaching but he believed, correctly, that it would be un fair to ask Phil Bengston to step down as head coach so that he could return as Packers HC.
Regrettably none of it mattered as Lombardi passed away in September 1970 within 18 months following his resignation as the Packers GM in February 1969. Thanks, Since '61
packer132
June 28, 2023 at 10:57 am
SH: Really? Gute re-signed 19 of 22 free agents two years ago for Rodgers and the team to compete for the Super Bowl. I guess you really don't follow the Packers and know football. You just follow Rodgers and see where that gets you.
TKWorldWide
June 28, 2023 at 11:57 am
‘“where that gets you” is New York!
crayzpackfan
June 28, 2023 at 02:25 pm
SH--
Not sure if you intended for this to happen, but you have truly become the headlice of this forum. Cuz when I read your posts, it leaves me scratching my head.
Matt
June 29, 2023 at 06:15 am
But what could be done before Rodgers left? What kind of change? He wanted his guys to be around but at the same time new guys should be added? There are no 90 people in final roster.
stockholder
June 29, 2023 at 01:30 pm
The WRs should have been drafted earlier.
And the Ol should have been more intact
without the experiment of Hanson.
I also could point to Myers being drafted.
And not resigning Linsley or Turner.
Turner is now with the Jets.
NickPerry
June 28, 2023 at 07:38 am
Safety... Hell, having 2 competent Safeties would be a great place to start. You could have the best RAS score, run a blazing 40 yard dash in your spandex, or be a high draft pick like Savage, but if you CAN'T tackle, or play the position without getting beat like a rug, who in the hell cares how fast you can run! Don't sleep on Anthony Johnson Jr... I think the kid will be the starter by week 8.
Speed at TE... I've always found it interesting people make such a BIG DEAL out of the difference between 4.61 and 4.69. I mean these guys are being tested in the most NON Football like drill to begin with. When was the last time you saw a Packers TE lined up with one hand in the dirt, one behind his back, STAY held in that position to the count of 3, and then run in a straight line WITHOUT any resistance without another 15 pounds of football gear?
Can't we just say BOTH of these guys can run and hopefully play pretty damn fast for men of their size? For the record, I think both will do well, Kraft will definitely end the 3rd round curse and together, by the end of the season, they combine for about 65 catches for 650 yards, and 7 TDs.
Jayden Reed is definitely one of my favorite players of this draft. I've said it many times before, I loved what Gute did when you looked at the first 4 rounds TOGETHER as a whole. He addressed the pass rush which went into hiding once Gary got hurt. He grabbed TWO uber-athletic TE's and between those two TE picks grabbed one of my draft crushes I had...Jayden Reed. The kid CAN play in the slot or outside, and he's one of the best at contested catches coming out this year. Not to mention if he has an inch, he'll gain a mile in most cases...More speed!
Have a great vacation Al...I look forward to Polluted each week but will manage while you get some much deserved R & R!
Football Season is almost here folks... I can't wait to watch these youngsters grow into a TEAM!
DoubleJ
June 28, 2023 at 08:08 am
"Speed at TE... I've always found it interesting people make such a BIG DEAL out of the difference between 4.61 and 4.69. I mean these guys are being tested in the most NON Football like drill to begin with. When was the last time you saw a Packers TE lined up with one hand in the dirt, one behind his back, STAY held in that position to the count of 3, and then run in a straight line WITHOUT any resistance without another 15 pounds of football gear?"
When watching them in drills, the difference in speed is QUITE noticeable. Musgrave explodes off the line with WR like acceleration and very good top end speed. Kraft comes off the line like a fast TE and has good top end speed but isn't as fluid of an athlete.
LambeauPlain
June 28, 2023 at 09:36 am
Nick was saying...and I agree with it...in football, it is not how fast you run...it is how fast you run well.
Kraft has unbelievable balance for a man his size. He gets the most of his speed with the ball in his hands. It belongs to him.
DoubleJ
June 28, 2023 at 09:49 am
"Nick was saying...and I agree with it...in football, it is not how fast you run...it is how fast you run well."
He didn't say that at all. He was talking about the 40 time at the combine and that's it.
"Kraft has unbelievable balance for a man his size. He gets the most of his speed with the ball in his hands. It belongs to him."
I never said that Kraft didn't have good balance. However, to say that after watching practice of Kraft and Musgrave that Kraft is as smooth, fast, or balanced as Musgrave is a false statement. Musgrave runs routes like a WR while Kraft runs them like a TE. That isn't a negative on Kraft but he just doesn't have the same ability to sink into his hips nor the same acceleration out of breaks. Was Kraft a better YAC receiver than Musgrave in college, yes, however, Musgrave was catching a lot of balls 20+ yards downfield so YAC isn't quite as important.
croatpackfan
June 28, 2023 at 09:54 am
Nick, I believe we can say that Musgrave is fast, but Kraft is quick. That quickness you can see when his is avoiding defenders. It is good to have those 2 types of TE.
Ferrari-Driver
June 28, 2023 at 08:40 am
Al, thanks for all the columns and keep them coming.
Have some fun on your vacation and I'll pass along this piece of advice. My grandpa told me "Don't take any wooden nickels" It sounds like good advice, but I had no idea what he meant and still don't.
Spock
June 28, 2023 at 01:34 pm
I'd always thought that it was something to do with being cautious and that the phrase had originated with counterfeit coins, but here is one explanation I came across:
According to the book "Texas Curiosities: Quirky Characters, Roadside Oddities, and Offbeat Fun," the expression first made its appearance in the 1930s during a fair held in Chicago. At this event, wooden nickels were used as fair currency, but they were about to become worthless on the final day of the fair. As this day approached, attendees would caution each other, "not take any wooden nickels," since they were about to lose value.
Ferrari-Driver
June 28, 2023 at 06:03 pm
After that explanation if Al comes back with a pocket full of wooden nickels it isn't because he hasn't been warned. Now I'm curious and I would like to see what one actually looks like. Perhaps Al will show us one. (:-)
TKWorldWide
June 29, 2023 at 07:14 am
Here’s one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325705134167?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711...
Ferrari-Driver
June 30, 2023 at 09:23 am
Thanks TK. Those wooden nickels look pretty impressive and they sell them for five bucks each. Now I wish my grandpa had paid me in wooden nickles when I mowed his lawn with his old reel push mower for 10 cents.
RCPackerFan
June 28, 2023 at 08:54 am
Safety in Speed or Speed in Safety? -
Last year when Ford started to play, I really cou8ld feel his speed back there. I believe the Packers did too. Which is one of the reasons why I believe they let Amos go. They wanted to improve the speed back there to try and erase any plays possible. The took a shot on Moore and Owens. Moore is definitely a sleeper guy to keep an eye on.
Speaking of Speed -
I'm really excited for this offense this year. While we have no idea how good or bad it will truly be especially with Love taking over at QB, the youth and the amount of speed they have on offense will definitely make it exciting. Teams won't be able to sleep on the Packers weapons this year. With Watson being the ultimate big play speed guy, teams will really have to turn a lot of attention to him. But with Musgrave and Reed, they can't double up everyone.
There should be some very good opportunities for these players.
Plying his Kraft -
Kraft hasn't gotten the attention that Musgrave has, but he will definitely be a factor in this offense this year. I wouldn't be surprised if they used a lot of 2 TE sets, and I believe Kraft will get a ton of playing time.
ohh and he can chug a beer pretty well too.
In the Fold -
Its always good to get these deals finished early.
A LOT of Tailgating -
Enjoy it Packer fans! Enjoy it!
See ya in a few weeks -
Have a good break!
croatpackfan
June 28, 2023 at 09:57 am
"ohh and he can chug a beer pretty well too."
Well, Bakh will finally get his beer pal on the roster! There will be true competition. We should learn quick enough if "old" guy can handle youth, don't you think?
PackEyedOptimist
June 28, 2023 at 09:24 am
I'll bring up again: Someone (I think it was an assistant coach at his college) said Musgrave was timed at a 4.5 40 during the college's minicamp, before his knee injury. With everyone talking about how fast he looks, I'm pretty sure that 4.5 was real.
I preferred Kraft over Musgrave (by a lot) before the draft, because I love TEs who are hard to tackle. I hope we get to see that at Lambeau.
DoubleJ
June 28, 2023 at 10:15 am
"I preferred Kraft over Musgrave (by a lot) before the draft, because I love TEs who are hard to tackle. I hope we get to see that at Lambeau."
Which would you prefer a TE who is catching the ball 20 yards downfield and get 2 YAC all while stretching the D or a TE who catches the ball 10 yards downfield and gets 12 YAC but doesn't stretch the D? In the end they offering the same total yardage but affect the D differently.
Swisch
June 28, 2023 at 12:46 pm
I don't know, but maybe we're fortunate enough to have one of both in this rookie class.
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 01:52 pm
You doing ok Swisch? Haven't had a chance to check on you for a week or so.
Swisch
June 28, 2023 at 02:24 pm
Thanks, T7Steve, thanks for asking.
Yesterday was the one-year anniversary of my emergency surgery for an aortal tear (dissection) just above my heart, and I'm grateful to say it seems I'm doing well.
Meanwhile, it's hard for me to think of things to say about the Packers in this desert stretch before training camp, but I try to check in from time to time with my friends here at CHTV.
My best to everyone!
In general, things would be better if the Brewers would start scoring some more runs on these summer nights. I hope to do some more reading, as well.
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 02:44 pm
Thanks for the reply and HAPPY anniversary. You're set up for many more and in my prayers.
All we can do for the "desert stretch" is be excited about our young team and show how smart "we" are with our planning for them. We need all the time we can get to figure this out.
With the Brewers it's always something (sound familiar?). At least they seem to be in one of the weaker divisions this season (sound familiar?) and anything can happen. I think they'll get the bats going, I'd rather see them get hot after the break, than before, for a change. The pitching is even getting stronger.
Swisch
June 28, 2023 at 04:55 pm
It is kind of fun -- if my impression is correct -- to see the majority of fans here at CHTV excited about Jordan Love and the new Packers while so many others seem to be downgrading, or at least dismissing them.
Even if the Packers don't make the playoffs in 2023 -- we seem to be saying -- they're setting up for a bright future beginning in 2024.
Of course, no one knows, but that's the fun of making predictions.
We'll see if the consensus at CHTV, which is full of loyal fans who really pay attention to the Packers, is more accurate than what appears to be the national consensus.
***
Thanks again for your good thoughts, T7Steve, which mean a lot to me.
May God bless you, and all of the rest of us fervent Packer backers at CHTV.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 04:46 pm
Right on, Swisch! Keep rockin’!
Swisch
June 28, 2023 at 05:02 pm
Thanks much, greengold.
I try to keep myself going, in part, by having short races with my Dobie, Max. We're both getting up there in age, but we have fun with a little healthy competition between us.
He's a lot faster, but then again, he runs on four legs.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 06:16 pm
Heard. Getting up there myself and my work is physical. Lately I’m like, “uh, careful with that knee… No, the other one!” Lolz. All my best, Swischeroo!
T7Steve
June 29, 2023 at 07:11 am
I tried a race with my Doobie, but had to stop and eat.
PackEyedOptimist
June 28, 2023 at 02:46 pm
My big concern about Musgrave was that his tape showed a guy who was immediately tackled every time he caught a ball. Now, maybe that’s because he was always coming back from injuries, but I worry that he may get blown up a lot. On many of his tackles it looked like he was lucky to not fumble—that could be a real issue against NFL tacklers. I hope not, but I like tough guys when they are going to do a lot of their work inside.
I’ll be very happy if my worries are unfounded.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
June 28, 2023 at 04:21 pm
Lets put it in perspective. Travis Kelce led all tight ends last year with just 13 broken tackles and that was on well over 100 catches. Its a luxury trait. Whats most important is can they run, block, and catch? Musgrave can do those 3 things.
TKWorldWide
June 29, 2023 at 08:49 am
Totally appreciate that for sure, but, who doesn’t love to see a good “truck”?
(My understanding is that the whippersnappers got that term from Madden, meaning, “to run over”. I’m hip!)
greengold
June 29, 2023 at 09:15 am
Tragically Hip.
Check out (online) a place called Hatch Show Print in Nashville to see the poster... I'm looking at one of the originals right now in my studio. The guy that ran it for decades, Jim Sherraden, is a good friend of mine. A feast for the eyes.
TKWorldWide
June 29, 2023 at 11:03 am
At my age, more like hip replacement!
Will check that out.
Ferrari-Driver
June 29, 2023 at 01:51 pm
I would like to have a TE who catches the ball 20 yards down the field and gets 12 YAC. I may never get one that that is what is on my wish list.
SicSemperTyrannis
June 30, 2023 at 03:16 am
Double J, which would I rather have? Yes!
Hopefully MLF doesn't ignore their differences but draws up plays that use their unique abilities.
LambeauPlain
June 28, 2023 at 09:42 am
Read you later, Al. Enjoy vacation with family and friends!
Doug_In_Sandpoint
June 28, 2023 at 10:15 am
Hope Luke and Jordan go off this year. As the Captain and Tennille sang, looks like Musgrave-Love.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 10:27 am
Doug, you get a down vote because that hurt. Also funny.
LOLOLOLOL
Spock
June 28, 2023 at 01:39 pm
Ouch, now I've got that "ear worm" song going on in my head (including a visual of that stupid yacht cap on "the Captain's " head). Sigh.
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 01:55 pm
That would go well with a Kaft brew.
PeteK
June 28, 2023 at 10:27 am
--I really thought Savage was going to be that speedy FS that doesn't allow long plays and picks off long passes. Well it took Sharper a few yrs to hone his skills.
-- I'm just glad we have two prospects at the all important TE position. However, I'm very interested In Green at the slot position. I hope that he's a better version of Swerving Ervin. The motion offense that Lafleur likes is very confusing for defenses.
-- Maryland crab cakes or crabs with anything is great except the obvious.
Duneslick
June 28, 2023 at 10:47 am
Who is green ?
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 10:52 am
Thinking he meant Reed.
PeteK
June 28, 2023 at 05:11 pm
Yes, thanks
dobber
June 29, 2023 at 06:13 am
I don't know, but I hear it ain't easy...
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 10:30 am
Al said; "Whether that speed translates into excellent play at the back of the Packers' defense". Use the speed to catch and tackle guys and it will. Speed to run alongside anyone in the league, not so much. I believe it will be a strong unit this season. Part of the problem (for the whole backfield) last season was lack of pass rush and worry about the run support. That's not even mentioning planning/usage by the DC.
The whole offense is going to be more different this season than it has in years (at least 2020) because the O-line is going to be stout. They're going to give Love time that hasn't been seen for a long time. No happy feet after 2 seconds and the TEs will be able to chip (at most) and fly. We have new a Coffman and Finley (sp pardon on both?) on the team at the same time. A QB's dream.
HAVE FUN AL!!!!
Leatherhead
June 28, 2023 at 11:29 am
Well, we had fewer YAC than any other defense, so somebody is getting caught and tackled. We were 6th in passing yards given up. Tied for 4th in interceptions.
Disagree on the "lack of pass rush", too. We were 8th in pressure percentage, and that's without Gary for half the year.
The back of our defense had a pretty good year last year.
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 12:11 pm
So, you see nowhere we need to improve?
We got most of those turnovers in four games. It WAS towards the end of the season, so, maybe it will carry over.
Leatherhead
June 28, 2023 at 12:39 pm
I think if we just improve the offense a little bit we'll win the division, and I think we've done that. We've improved QB, WR, TE, and our offensive line is better than last year. Think about it: If you improve your QB, have a better line in front of him, and a better collection of WR and TEs, your offense should be better.
The league scoring average is around 22. We scored 22, or less, in 9 games. 8 of them were losses. Four of them were 1 score games, so as you can see, even a slightly improved offense would have put us at 12-5.
Sorry, Steve, I just don't buy into the hysteria about the defense. It's a good defense, with veterans returning at just about every spot. You'd think Wyatt and Walker might be better their second year. We've added Van Ness. We're getting Gary and Stokes back. This defense can, and does, keep the score under control so that we can win the game. If we can score some points.
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 01:00 pm
LH, I'm not hysterical about the D. Note in my first comment how I feel the "safeties" that the Al was addressing in the article, would be a strength.
Yes, a good O is the best defense. Tackling doesn't hurt though.
I believe, like you, we'll field a very competitive team this season and am more excited than I have a right to be.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 02:30 pm
I agree 100%, Leatherhead, and think this entire Packers team is far and away better than anything we've seen in the last 3 years.
That's how confident I am in all of it.
Seems to me, while the Packers quietly were in rebuild of our O these past 3 years, they also were doing same on D and STs. Very deliberate moves in the draft to optimize talents they specifically sought out for their new coordinators, Barry & Bisaccia both entering Year 3 in their Packer coaching tenures.
It takes time to transition that many positions via the draft alone, while being handcuffed in the cap via FA. I'm still a happily stunned that the Packers are getting out of that mess, thanks to an overzealous Woody Johnson. Wow. We're playing with house money for a couple years instead of spiraling into a decades long abyss.
Not sure why many are slow to embrace the idea that maybe, just like we haven't fully seen LaFleur's offense, that maybe we haven't fully seen Barry's defense... Maybe they know what they are doing on D.
MAYBE NOT! I GET IT! I watched all the games too. Got pissed off like everyone else. However, maybe, just maybe, they were another half dozen players away from running their schemes on D.
GB ran either Quarters, Quarter/Quarter/Half or Cover-3 in 66% of their defensive snaps in 2022. All of them high stress coverage situations, dependent upon having a deep roster of talents at every position. if you have the personnel, you can win a lot of games with what we ran. WE DID NOT HAVE THE PLAYERS. Yet... in 2022.
Conversely, running those 3 defensive systems, if you have a key player or 3 go down, without quality backups, teams will just run on you. And, if you don't have the run stop, overtly so as in the 2022 Packers case, teams will run on you more. Green Bay's DL was one of the worst in the NFL in run stop in 2022.
We are just starting now on Defense, with a full complement of players.
Can't argue the raw number of players they've added to #1 fix the run stop (S Moore, S Owens, OLB Van Ness, DT Wooden, DE Brooks, CB Valentine, S Johnson Jr., OLB Cox Jr. +++ NT Jonathan Ford & DE Devonte Wyatt each with a solid year of development: all 10+ players featuring run stop strengths) and #2 improve the pass rush.
Offense, Defense, Special Teams, all 3 phases of the game fully loaded with dynamic players for every role, plus what looks to be some fairly high quality backups.
I like it. Unapologetically.
T7Steve
June 28, 2023 at 02:49 pm
"Bisaccia both entering Year 3". Close enough!
Good post.
greengold
June 28, 2023 at 02:54 pm
Yeah. Point being, these are not long tenured coordinators. Pettine ran a completely different scheme, and it was garbage. What LaFleur & Barry are trying to do is a complete transformation on D. Bisaccia about to begin his 2nd year with the Packers! Thanks for the heads-up. I misspoke. The turnover is truly epic over the course of 3 drafts though. 2/3 of the team or more in that span.
I'm excited about what we will see in 2023. Very much so.
splitpea1
June 28, 2023 at 11:17 am
Safety: Hopefully the speed will translate into a few more interceptions. But the tackling is equally as important. Ford had 3 INTs despite starting only six games, AND he can tackle. That's why I like him on both defense and STs.
Kraft: Those clips really got me excited. If he can bounce off tacklers and bully his way for extra yardage like that at the pro level, we've really got something here; goodbye third-round hex!
Leatherhead
June 28, 2023 at 11:23 am
Speed is great, speed is good. For as long as I've been following the Packers, it's been about speed. Favre throws 6 picks in a playoff game and the coach starts talking about improving our speed on defense. We got rid of Micah Hyde because he wasn't speedy enough.
It takes 0.2 seconds to blink, and that's the difference, over 40 yards, between a fast guy and a really fast guy. In shorts.
I think that blocking and tackling are more important than speed.
DoubleJ
June 28, 2023 at 11:42 am
"It takes 0.2 seconds to blink, and that's the difference, over 40 yards, between a fast guy and a really fast guy. In shorts."
While that doesn't seem like very long, a guy running a 4.36/40 is pulling away from a guy running a 4.56/40 at a rate of about 15" per second or about 3" per 0.2 seconds. That means over 40 yards the 4.36 guy is 5 feet ahead of the 4.56 guy. Now guys aren't running the 40 on the field during a game so the 10/20 yard splits are often more important. There the difference between say a 1.55/10 and a 1.6/10 is noticeable by how quickly a cushion is eaten up by a WR or how quick a DL gets to the outside shoulder of an OT.
Leatherhead
June 28, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Receivers are faster than DBs. That's why we play off, and give a cushion, or have deep help. If speed were that important, Bob Hayes would have been the greatest WR ever, and he wasn't.
When you think of great receivers, they bring a lot to the table other than speed. Jordy was fast, but he had other talents. Same with Jennings. Same with Driver, Same with Adams.
To me, speed is one of those "all other things being equal" criteria. If everything else is equal, fine. But don't take a guy just because he's fast. Look at MVS. He was fast. Damn fast. But he last until Day 3 of the draft because of other things. Tyreek Hill, too.
Leatherhead
June 29, 2023 at 11:55 am
DoubleJ, your post has kept kicking around in my brain since yesterday. I hate it when that happens.
In this scenario, the 4.36 guy is 5 feet farther along than the 4.56 guy. If he can a clean release, and the DB didn't have any kind of cushion, then I'd be willing to concede that speed is something important.
The "quickness" over 10 yards....a .05 second difference?? Over 1.55 seconds? That's a percentage improvement of 0.03%. And that's noticeable to you?
And remember, these times are one-time snap shots, at an event they've prepared for for months, in shorts, inside.
I'm sorry, but upon further review, the ruling on the field stands. We're talking about miniscule differences in something that is less important that quite a few other qualities a receiver should have.
T7Steve
June 29, 2023 at 12:35 pm
Yes, LH. I want football players.
dobber
June 29, 2023 at 06:18 am
Bottom line is that play recognition, instincts, and good angles are arguably more important than that stopwatch speed for most defenders, but especially for safeties. The best ones don't often waste a step.
SicSemperTyrannis
June 30, 2023 at 04:13 am
LH, aside from the arcane fact that a blink can be twice that fast and also 2x slower, player evaluation is a critically important coaching skill. I have no idea how that will be handled, or even by who. Will MLF be making all those calls, or will he be greatly swayed by others on the coaching staff?
I don't know if we'll ever learn those facts. Maybe somebody can give us some insight into how various abilities are weighted to determine cuts vs starters, but that won't be knowable until after the fact. Or I'm at least hoping that they'll review all of that this season and not simply repeat what they've done before.
20 cuts to make. I come up with maybe 14 that seem reasonable to me.
Even 5 years of player pro stats often does not tell the tale, so many other factors influence individual production. I think I remember MLF saying final roster cuts are the part of the job he hates the most.
Swisch
June 28, 2023 at 12:40 pm
At the time growing up in Warminster, Pennsylvania, I had a lot of fun on vacation in Ocean City, Maryland in the early 1970s, at about age 10 -- a big song on the radio may have been "Little Willy (Willy Won't Go Home)" -- but I don't think I could offer much in the way of recommendations -- except that the ocean is pretty cool.
Anyway, have a great break, Jersey Al.
Handsback
June 28, 2023 at 01:36 pm
Al, you will be missed while you're on vacation. My only advice on Ocean City is go south until you hit Sunset Beach in North Carolina. I think you will like it!
Just MHO
Tundraboy
June 28, 2023 at 06:51 pm
Hope the Sun breaks out for you. Enjoy.
Oppy
June 28, 2023 at 07:57 pm
I think kraft has a higher ceiling than muskgrave.
I think long term Kraft will have a more prolific career.
Leatherhead
June 28, 2023 at 08:57 pm
That's so hard to say Oppy, because it assumes they'll have equal health/durability/availability, and that's just not going to happen.
If I'm lining up the Packer offense, I'd want Kraft on the line to give me that 6th offensive lineman who can get his man blocked, but I'd use Musgrave as the 2nd TE/3rd WR. I think he could be a real difficult matchup that we could keep exploiting, while still getting the benefit of Kraft blocking. If our front 6 can push their front 6, we're going to be successful on offense.
Oppy
June 29, 2023 at 09:07 pm
Just based on my eye on their highlight reels, Kraft has far more body control than Muskgrave. He looks more polished that Muskgrave. He's got better in-line ability and he doesn't look to be too far behind Muskgrave split out. Kraft looks like he has the frame to build out upon.
Lastly, my assessment also factors in the fact that Muskgrave already has some injury history.
Overall, it's a gut feel. I really like Kraft. He plays faster than he looks in large part to his long stride and big build. I think he's a guy who just keeps getting better.
HarryHodag
June 29, 2023 at 08:10 am
Both rookie tight ends face a steep learning curve. Musgrave played with the 'big boys' during his college schedule. Kraft was a man among boys but we must never forget he played in what used to be called "Division II". While that level has produced some good players I would have to think that Musgrave would have a step up at this point. But the Packers are so thin in quality talent at the position that both players are likely to see a lot of playing time this year.
Of course injuries will play a factor. Lets hope the Packers have a mostly healthy season. If both of these guys go down they may have to sign some players from St. Norbert.