Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Ja Money

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Ja Money - Jaire Alexander has always been money on the field for the Packers and now the Packers have put some money in his bank account. Once again, the Packers shell out the biggest contract in history at a specific position. I saw this related tweet from our own Bruce Irons - check out the plethora of "but no 1st round WR" madness in the comments.

Free Money - So what do the Packers do with the 6.2M in cap space they save in 2022 after extending Jaire? For me, you bring in another safety. Some names out there are Landon Collins, Jason McCourty, Jaquiski Tartt, and Tashaun Gipson. What would you do? Let's hear your suggestions in the comments. 

Rico Act - Unbeknownst to me, the Packers had a WR on their roster named Rico Gafford. After the Packers signed Sammy Watkins and drafted three wide receivers, Gafford's position as the last man on the WR totem pole basically went three feet deep underground. But never fear, the Packers are never afraid to think creatively when it comes to skill positions, so Gafford will become another WR->CB conversion project, ala Sam Shields. However, this one is different in that Gafford played CB in college, not WR (and ran a 4.22 40yd dash at his Wyoming Pro Day). So he's just going back to his old position, at which he has a much better chance of being useful to the Packers.

We'll say Bye later - I find it pretty interesting that Packers coach Matt LaFleur requested not to have their bye after their London trip and the league agreed. I totally understand LaFleur's reasoning and agree with it - he's already thinking about making a longer run in the playoffs - I'm just shocked that the almighty NFL listened. 

Cuckoo for Coco - Yes, fans, the Packers finally made the move you've all been waiting for, signing a long snapper to the final spot on the roster. Jack Coco, who attended the Packers' rookie minicamp on a tryout basis will now compete with incumbent Steve Wirtel for the Packers' long snapper spot. Coco was a snapper in high school and for three years at Georgia Tech, but curiously enough, he did not snap on punts for Tech, only field goals and extra points. Not sure what that means, but hey, if we have three kickers on the roster, we might as well have two long snappers. 

OBJ - I'm seeing a lot of "OBJ is the perfect fit for the Packers" articles all over the internet. But would small-market Green Bay be a fit for a big-time personality like OBJ? I don't see it happening.

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

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8 points

Comments (178)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
PhantomII's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:21 am

I would like a pretty good FS myself. Some mentioned pass rusher....Maybe we can talk Mercillus out of retirement now that we have a little more coin in the bank. OBJ-I just think we have enough at WR if AR gets serious with his duty to the packers. If you want more say so...That should mean you want to do more than talk.....If AR dedicates himself to the youth we are in good shape. No girlfriend will help focus on the team....

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:44 am

Tartt seems to make sense.
McCourty (35) played on a qualified contract (that is, dirt cheap) but Miami didn't re-sign him, at least yet. The price probably is right, just not sure if he has anything in the tank.

Gipson got some guaranteed money out of Chicago, and earned over $2.5M. He at least played quite a bit.

Landon Collins also played a lot. His contract was expensive. Washington is eating $9M in dead money and released him with a June designation. His cap number was $15M so he wouldn't cut his $11.5M base salary by a lot?

I have little interest in OBJ. Tell me the price and I might decide to think about him.

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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:09 am

The S question really comes down to whether the Packers feel a greater need for a CF-type or a box type S. Where are they weakest? They drafted Carpenter late as an ST guy, said at first he would run with the LBs, but switched gears and had him practicing with the S group in minicamp.

It doesn't sound like the Packers are counting on much out of depth pieces like Vernon Scott or Innes Gaines (never say never, though). Box safeties like Collins and Tartt (who is always beat up) tend to predominate at this point on the market, but McCourty and Gipson have some potential as coverage guys, if they can still run.

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LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 04:48 pm

Tartt played quite a few games at FS for the 49ers too. At his size he seems more like a box guy but he's roughly the same size as Malik Hooker and Hooker is much better at FS than SS. I'd rather they found a deep guy and had some trust in Scott or Gaines in the box but it seems like pretty slim pickings for coverage guys.

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croatpackfan's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:45 am

More or less I agree with your suggestions and evaluation, TGR. Nothing to add.

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Oppy's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:36 pm

Jaquiski might be the worst first name I could ever imagine bestowing upon a child.

Jaquiski?

ick.

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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:45 pm

Wonders never cease, Oppy.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:01 pm

As someone who saddled his children with names that are unusual in the US but are common in my wife's country of origin, I agree that the names strikes my ear as odd. It is possible that Jaquiski means something in a foreign language or is a common name in some region of the world.

I tell one of my sons in particular that there likely is only one person with your name. It does mean he has to make sure his government documents and his banks and such spell his correctly.

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greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 02:15 am

That’s really cool, TGR. I like distinctive. Unique. Stories abound.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 19, 2022 at 02:56 am

I have to confess that even after 22 years I still do not pronounce my younger son's name absolutely perfectly every time! I am always close, and sometimes I get it spot on, but I have trouble getting my tongue around the proper sound. Despite being 100% Irish, I can't roll an "r" either.

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HawkPacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:52 am

JA Money--so glad they got him extended making the defense great moving forward now even after this coming season.

Free Money--I would agree that it appears that Safety is where we need to sign a back up and possibly CB but the FO knows what it has. Maybe even Kevin King as a CB backup. We at least would know what we have with him. After what I have read, I think Tartt would be the best to sign if affordable.

Rico Act-I don't know what to think of this guy. He is so fast and has CB experience but he was never drafted, even with that speed. He is most certainly very raw, which is fine for us if he has a huge upside that will take time to develop as we already have the starters.

Bye--with a Bye so late in the season, hopefully no early injuries to deal with.

'Cuckoo for Coco'-Puffs?

Nice article Al. I look forward to it each and every Wednesday!

7 points
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NickPerry's picture

May 18, 2022 at 07:17 am

"Maybe even Kevin King as a CB backup. We at least would know what we have with him."

I heard this on a podcast yesterday. My thought is IF King was brought back, he could be used as a 3rd safety, just like he was a little bit last year. He'd be cheap, knows the defense, knows the other players on this defense, and could MAYBE be a if EVERYBODY is injured emergency type fill in here and there.

Crap...I just had a vision of Scotty Miller running right by King in the NFCCG to give up a long TD seconds before halftime...

Yup, we know what we have in him alright...

Just kidding around HawkPacker...Not trying to be a dick

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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:13 am

To be fair, King wasn't bad last season when he was on the field. I would argue he was cast into a part-time role that suited him better. Maybe it's limited snaps or maybe Barry/Gray had a better plan for him. Who knows, but they can't pay him $5M again...he's a vet minimum guy who signs just before camp. Under those circumstances, that's a decent way to cover your bases.

6 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 04:51 pm

Pretty much my exact sentiments about King. The idea of him also being a short term emergency S does make him more appealing, the idea of watching him get toasted on the outside again much less so.

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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:15 am

"Rico act--"

The biggest issue with WR-->CB conversions is their natural aversion to contact. Most of those WR don't go looking for it and tend to be timid tacklers and it takes time to get over it. Shields was an example of someone who mostly did. Still, Gafford might see the DB room as a way to make an impression on STs (maybe as a gunner) and earn his way onto the 53.

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HawkPacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:25 am

Remember dobber, he was a CB in college so he should know how to tackle unless of course that is why in the Pro's they switched him to WR.

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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:43 am

Well...that was actually my point, but I never go to it (so, bad on me).

This is why my wife looks at me funny whenever I talk.

5 points
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greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:16 am

Underrated.

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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:55 am

He was a CB when he first came into the NFL. He was converted by his second team, the Raiders when they saw his speed and hands ability. His initial playing time came on special teams for our new ST Coordinator. He is a kick returner among other ST roles.

He was a former community college player who finished with two seasons in the Mountain West conference, notching up 103 total tackles, six interceptions, 17 passes defended, three forced fumbles, and 1.5 tackles for loss.

So a smaller conference CB who only played a couple of years at that level and on the small side in Green Bay terms, but not one who I’m particularly worried about from a physical or tackling perspective. Perhaps as significantly, he has played for our ST coordinator, which is perhaps why he’s here in the first place.

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jont's picture

May 18, 2022 at 02:18 pm

Did you say speed and hands?

Try him out as a punt returner?

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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 02:46 pm

He returned 7 kicks at Wyoming at an average of 20 per return. While he also returned kicks successfully in community college (26 yards ave.), I can find no reference to him ever returning a punt. He did return a blocked punt 12 yards for a TD.

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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:27 am

Gafford has no aversion to contact with 103 TACKLES in just two years. 1.5 TFL. 6 INT. 11 PD. 3 FF…?

This kid is a good CB based on those numbers alone. Eric Stokes had 78 TACKLES in 3 years.

2 points
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PeteK's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:10 am

I don't have too much confidence on a player who is on his 6th team in 3 years. However, Bisaccia does know him.

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Minniman's picture

May 18, 2022 at 02:23 pm

It didn’t work out too bad for Rasul Douglas and Campbell- once they were used to their strengths.

Like you said, the ST coach knows him, so maybe there’s another hidden gem for the Packers to unlock.

4 points
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davekenya's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:50 am

Rico Act - nice to see someone at 1265 has a sense of humor ... giving Rico jersey #37 could not have been coincidental...

2 points
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Handsback's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:55 am

I would love to see the Packers pick up an extra safety and pass on any retread receiver.
Safety is/could be a need where another receiver added to a very crowded room will/may retard the development of the newbies added this year.
Very happy to see moves being done for STs. Also wonder if the Rico move was for STs...keeping him in a viable position so he can contribute as a gunner. Don't know just a thought since WR position is very crowded.

3 points
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NickPerry's picture

May 18, 2022 at 07:07 am

OBJ didn't want to come to GB last season healthy, I'll be damned if I'd like to see him here injured. Besides, do we have any idea when he'd actually be able to contribute on the field? IF, I was to be interested in OBJ, it would be once I've had a chance to watch him work out...No thank you.

If the Packers were to sign another veteran WR, I think Will Fuller might make a little sense, more than OBJ at least. But I'm not so sure about Fuller or anyone else for that manor. The Packers have a pretty crowded room now and not a lot of room for ANOTHER WR. Let's at least wait and see who gets cut after June 1st. Just because the Packers have a little extra money doesn't mean they have to spend it NOW. I also like the idea of RUNNING the ball a little more...Patience please!

Al brought up an excellent point, a extra safety would be a wise investment. With the drafting of Quay Walker I honestly believe we'll see the way Joe Barry REALLY wants to play defense...With TWO stud ILB who can do everything and stay in the same defense whether it's 1st and 10 or 3 and 13. Collins is a name and will cost too much. Tartt may be a nice pickup but again, I'd like to see what comes available after June 1st.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:17 am

OBJ will be lucky to see the field meaningfully in the regular season. Late in season signing if we stack up injuries at WR, otherwise hopefully just dead period talking head murmurings.

I don’t particularly see the point of signing anyone at this point. There has been no rush to sign anyone still out there, self evidently. Let the price fall, see if others become available. If I were to take the jump it would be for a deep capable S. I don’t see a need for another box type with the likely move to more 2 ILB usage and signing of Carpenter.

3 points
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PeteK's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:23 am

I think we need a centerfield type of safety who can intercept and breakup passes. Savage's weakness last season was not being able to prevent the long passes. Tartt with 4 INTs and 18 passes defended in 7 seasons does not fit that mold.

2 points
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:12 pm

Those centerfield safeties are not as abundant as the box type guys though.

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Swisch's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:23 am

I'd consider Cole Beasley as a great guy to move the chains.
If at tight end Davis is inexperienced and Tonyan is not fully recovered from injury -- and without any other pass-catchers at that position to reliably work the middle of the field -- perhaps Beasley can fill that role somewhat as a tough slot receiver.
While Amari Rodgers is inexperienced as a slot receiver and Cobb is aged and injury-prone, Beasley is still productive, even prolific, with 82 catches last season for almost 700 yards.
What's more, Beasley is grit, and the Packers could use more of that, especially in the playoffs.

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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:13 pm

How do you bring Amari Rodgers along if he's got two other slot WRs ahead of him?

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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:48 pm

At some point AmRod needs to step up and take the bull by the balls and claim that spot, too. How long do you wait, and how many snaps do you give away when you've got a roster in the cap vice and a QB with a limited shelf life?

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:04 pm

I think you wait at least through a second preseason.

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Swisch's picture

May 18, 2022 at 04:49 pm

To my mind, you gently let go of Randall Cobb (which I hate to say, because he's one of my favorite Packers over the years, but he's not that good anymore).
If it's all about winning right now, get Beasley right away.
Amari Rodgers would learn a ton from Beasley, and still have some opportunities this season if he's ready to step up.
I don't think we want to rely on Cobb or Rodgers this season for those key catches to move the chains, do we?
P.S. If Aaron Rodgers doesn't like it, trade him and Cobb on June 1st -- if that is indeed reasonably possible. Beasley would work great with Jordan Love, as well, or any quarterback.
After all, Beasley is a football player!

-1 points
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dobber's picture

May 19, 2022 at 09:39 am

"To my mind, you gently let go of Randall Cobb"

They had that opportunity, but got him to take a pay cut. He represents a very limited amount of experience in the WR room and there's very little to be gained cap-wise...as you note, he's also in 12's inner circle, which is a force field that will be hard to penetrate.

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Johnblood27's picture

May 18, 2022 at 07:13 am

JA got paid, I hope he maintains the level of intensity he had before the $$$. The secondary looks strong, yet thin - which leads me to...

Please, no more WR!!! There is plenty of talent in the WR room right now, there is absolutely NO need to add any more bodies at this time. ...and certainly NOT OBJ under any circumstances, he is just NOT a fit in GB or in MLF's scheme. He would - IMO - facilitate the AR duck n chuck throw it up deep playground offense. I have seen far too much of that already.

Rico whatever. He is camp fodder at best. I would support his development if it was at the expense of keeping Ento around, I have seen enough of that experiment already. 4 years of development? That's what COLLEGE is for, move on already.

I would certainly support the signing of some secondary depth at either CB or S, thin to win is not accurate when it comes to roster building. I would take a hard look at Gaines and if not comfortable that he will be able to play as a #3 S this season I am hard in the market for some quality depth.

I am not surprised that the league granted the Packers request to not take the bye so early in the season. I am not surprised that the league took the request to the opposite extreme and screwed the Packers with a veritable pre-playoff bye week. The NFL really needs to get their heads out of their rears and condense the bye weeks into the middle of the season. I have seen some very reasonable plans that would be better for the players, the fans and the league. WTF is the point in a week 4 or 14 bye?

2 points
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Packers0808's picture

May 18, 2022 at 07:28 am

OBJ, Nope!

6 points
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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:19 am

Free Money? Spend it at EDGE!

Jadeveon Clowney. Still a FA after getting 9 sacks last year. Somehow.

-2 points
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ricky's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:23 am

Clowney was over drafted, is now overrated and wants a ton of money for being a "name" who never gives enough production to justify his salary. No thanks.

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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:37 am

Bullshit.

Clowney had 37 TACKLES, 11 TFL, 9 SACKS, 19 QB HITS ,10 QB KD, and 32 QB PRESSURES in 2021.

Try looking up some stats.

3 points
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ricky's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:40 pm

Rashan Gary had 27 solo tackles, 20 assisted, 8 TFL, 28 QB hits, and 9.5 sacks. Preston Smith had 24 solo tackles, 12 assists, nine sacks and two forced fumbles. The Browns have a two-year offer for $24 million for Clowney on the table. Meanwhile, Gary still has another two years on his rookie contract (likely to be redone next off-season), and Smith just signed a new contract, four years, $52 million in new money. Is Clowney worth the money for the production? I don't believe so. JMO

1 points
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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:35 am

The draft--name--salary--value thing has a way of working itself out with time. There's a reason why he's still on the market.

There a number of notable edge players still on the market--JPP, Anthony Barr, Clowney, Carlos Dunlap, Takk McKinley, Justin Houston (just to throw names out)--who will linger a bit and could contribute, and may be had at a team-friendly rate, but just about all are "buyer beware" in some regard.

4 points
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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:48 am

The bigger point is PASS RUSH makes any secondary better, whether it be CB or S.

I consider the EDGE to remain light, as much as I like Enagbare. Clowney is great vs. both run & pass, and he’s in a different class than any OG Garvin, Ramsey & Galeai.

THAT would make a great rotation. Gary. Preston. Clowney. Enagbare. Garvin. Ramsey.

Clowney is 29 years old. I bet he’d love a chance at a ring.

2 points
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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:50 am

I'm more bullish on Enagbare than most. He doesn't bring much in terms of varied player type (he's a lot like Garvin and P), but people undersell his ability to get pressure. I don't think he's got Z's motor (and he profiles a lot like Z, too), but he's got a chance to be a contributor.

I think they dodged a bullet last year by not getting hit by another significant edge injury after Z (I was pounding the table hard for more OLB depth last year)--I think most of us were really worried when P got hurt, but he didn't miss time--and maybe Garvin can also be a serviceable player in rotation with Enagbare if called on to take significant snaps. I don't see Tipa or Ramsey as having much of a chance of making the 53 except as deep reserves/STs players. We'll see.

1 points
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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:57 am

I think JJ Enagbare DOES have Z’s motor, dobs. If not the exact same motor.

It’s all short area speed and quickness. Z wasn’t running 40s, and neither will be JJ. Neither player is a chase LB. I really like the Enagbare pick.

I just question any of Garvin, Ramsey, Galeai making the leap.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:43 am

The team seems to love Ramsey. If he was healthy there’s little doubt he’d have been on the roster both of the last 2 years from their statements. However, he wasn’t and yet they hold on to him and reference him in media comments.

Looking forward to seeing why this off season, if he can stay on the field. Perhaps we have a sleeper in the minds of the Lombardi Ave. folks.

0 points
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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:50 pm

Yeah...they loved ESB too.

2 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 02:52 pm

Well, some did more than others I suspect. A better comparison might be Burks, but we knew he couldn’t play. Ramsey I really couldn’t say. I’m not arguing for the merits of Ramsey, just noting that the Packers personnel continually praise him.

To be honest his injury history makes me wonder why, but they’ve brought him up again this off season. Let’s see if he can justify that, but the reason for mentioning it is that players they reference that much are often on the roster in September.

0 points
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Swisch's picture

May 18, 2022 at 04:57 pm

After the Packers hit on Yosh after being patient with him, one hopes guys like Ramsey are ready to step up as stealthy steals for the Packers.

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Coldworld's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:59 am

Apparently not everyone does, seeing the down vote. Finding a diamond from nowhere is a big plus IF it’s genuine. Right or wrong they seem particularly enthusiastic about Ramsey, so I think he is part of their plans and thus will be following him over the summer.

I saw an article today suggesting they like what they have in S Shawn Davis as a player able to play deep as well as in the box too. Coincidence or why we haven’t picked up another S? Of course it may be just out of season idle chatter. I will watch him too though. Another pick up from a PS, though he was a 5th round pick originally.

All part of the fun, but if either Ramsey or Davis or A.N Other turns out to be something, we all win. Here is hoping.

2 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 19, 2022 at 11:22 am

I saw that with Davis too. 4.55 seems pretty slow for a FS and he was listed as a SS when drafted but maybe they like his anticipation skills.

Ramsey is basically the same size as Tipa but not as athletic. A 7.33 3-cone at 238 lbs does not a speed rusher make. Tipa is listed at 229 still but they said he was up to 238 last year. Nick Bonitto went from 238 to 248 in two months before the combine. Tipa seems like he'll probably be more of a DPR anyway, but that still has value.

It's not really in the realm of possibility that all your Edge players have excellent agility scores but you certainly want the lighter guys to have decent burst and bend. I really liked Josh Paschal as a Z replacement type in January but he was thought of as a 4th or 5th rounder then. He ended up going at 46 to the Lions.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:04 pm

I just wonder about Enagbare being limited athletically for an Edge. Maybe lightning strikes twice but Z is kind of a unicorn with the success he's had given his athletic limitations. Enagbare is a very strong guy with heavy hands but the sledding is much tougher in the NFL.

I was really hoping for a change of pace speed DPR but maybe they don't have an interest in those types. I'll be interested to see how Bonitto and Barno fare over the next few years.

1 points
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dobber's picture

May 19, 2022 at 09:44 am

Z plays with his hair on fire. He's relentless...motor makes up for his limitations. While Enagbare has a reputation for strength and a quick step, he doesn't play with that same kind of intensity. Maybe it can be learned, but he's a Jonathan Garvin type with a little higher motor.

I'm still looking at Jermaine Johnson on the board at 22 and him not ending up in green and gold.

0 points
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greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 09:57 am

21 years later I’m still palpably gun shy on Florida St. EDGE players, thanks to Ron Wolf’s selection of Jamal Reynolds with the 10th overall pick in 2001.

Reynolds had a grand total of 3 SACKS… in 3 years, never to play for another NFL team thereafter. Talk about a B U S T !!!

To this day I cannot shake that one.

0 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 19, 2022 at 03:06 am

Wild speculation here, but I think it depends on whether Tipa can add 15 pounds of muscle without losing his athleticism. I would guess that is a two-year job, so I'd expect him to be on the PS for 2022 (and getting some coaching as well).

1 points
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greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 07:25 am

Absolutely. I actually like all 3 players and support their advancement on this Packers team.

That kind of development you speak of here, adding mass and strength, takes years. Maybe Tipa can realize that leap after these last two years of development.

I love what Randy Ramsey brings. That length and speed combo. Difficult when you’re always left imagining what he could bring because he’s on IR… Hopefully the kid stays healthy this season and we can see him play up to his abilities.

Garvin has been there battling for us. He’s been developing while playing. There’s a good chance he makes another leap in his level of play in 2022.

There is every chance Gutekunst, LaFleur & Barry might think we’re set at EDGE/OLB - and FA addition winds up being at Safety, as Al offered here. Maybe Gutekunst adds S and CB?

Have to laugh, but, maybe he adds another 5-T at roster cuts… or with that “FREE MONEY…!”

*** DE Akiem Hicks? Can you imagine??? BG is ALWAYS looking to improve his roster, at every position… I don’t think Lowry’s position is exempt.

Akial Byers. Jack Heflin. Hauati Pututau. ALL OF THEM 5-Techs battling for Dean Lowry’s spot, and signed to this Packers roster.

Tough to know. We’re all left guessing. It’s “wild speculation “ season.

1 points
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dobber's picture

May 19, 2022 at 09:46 am

Tipa's been around a couple years now, and if he's not added weight it's either because the Packers don't want him to, or because he's that rare example of someone who just doesn't gain....I can't relate to that.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 19, 2022 at 11:44 am

I thought they said he was up to 238 lbs in camp last year but he's still listed at 229. If they're fine with him just being a change of pace rusher on passing downs he'd be fine in the 240s.

Having Edge players at 265-275 lbs is a pretty new thing, Robert Mathis played for 14 years and probably only got above 240 lbs in the 2nd half of his career. Leonard Floyd is listed at 240 lbs by the Rams. Teams don't seem to use the designated pass rushers as much as they used to but as long as their making an impact with their limited snaps I don't see anything wrong with them taking a roster spot. They're mainly playing on money downs.

0 points
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greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 12:06 pm

What production Tipa Galeai showed at Utah St. In 25 games over his 2 years there:
119 TACKLES. 24 TFL. 15 SACKS. 2 INT. 1 FR. 38 run stops. 20 QB HITS. 54 QB HURRIES.

It would be pretty special to see that translate in these 2 years of development.

0 points
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davekenya's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:55 am

Clowney was excited to go to Seattle in 2019 b/c he didn't have to play in a 3-4 but in a 4-3. How would he be motivated in our defensive scheme?

2 points
3
1
LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:18 pm

They basically play a 4-2-5 a majority of the time and also play dime moe than any other team in the league the last two years so I doubt he'd be to worried about it. There are a few people that say if he gets handled early in the game he can disappear. I remember someone pointing out after Quenton Nelson knocked him on his butt a couple times early in a game he basically gave up.

He's definitely a guy to look at as a DPR and has played quite a bit inside like Z did.

https://twitter.com/LockedOnColts/status/1302386841014792192?t=vUQrSfWyM...

1 points
1
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:13 am

Clowney is much better than his stats would imply. Absolute anchor against the run and consistently creates pressure on the qb. Wouldn't be mad at it if we can afford him.

3 points
3
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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 12:38 pm

Exactly. Clowney is far and away better than any EDGE who remains available in FA this offseason. He affects the passer, while maintaining run discipline.

Those numbers I shared are significant.

I’ve got nothing against the others of Garvin, Ramsey nor Galeai, but, a Clowney signing, with the rookie Enagbare opposite has a symmetry with how the Packers like to bring new talent along. We’ve waited on the other 3 for a while.

That kind of rotation with Clowney added, the formidable rotation Barry & his staff wants at EDGE, would work wonders for our current Packers secondary. A lot of young ballhawks there, plus savvy vets who know how to capitalize.

With the front 7 already assembled? Rotations. Plural. Exactly what Jason Rebrovich, Packers OLB coach said he wanted.

Can’t fill every position in the draft. I think Clowney completes - and would positively affect - the roster better than another Safety or CB, given what we have.

Add a S or CB, and questions remain at the #4 EDGE.

Whatever. It’s fun to think about this time of year. Clowney was definitely on that top shelf of 2022 FA offerings at EDGE. Gutekunst likely will find a value at roster cuts.

Seems coverage responsibilities lessened by having both Quay & Campbell. Clowney might find that more appealing in our 3-4.

1 points
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KnockTheSnotOutOfYou's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:40 am

At Edge!

2 points
2
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RCPackerFan's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:00 am

Ja Money -
Well deserved money! There may not be a true lockdown corner like there used to be, but Alexander is the closest thing to it.
As far as tweets go. Twitter will always twitter.

Free Money -
Another safety makes sense. Maybe another CB. I know this won't make me popular around here, but based on our CB depth I would consider bringing King back. I'm not sure who else is available, but he would likely be a cheap player that when he is healthy is not a bad player. He would be our 4th CB and maybe would see the field in specific packages.

Rico Act -
Not many position switches work out well for players. I think Rico going back to CB could improve his chances of staying with the team. Probably most likely on the PS, but you never know. Sometimes a player just needs to be put in his natural position. CB appears to be his. But lets see what he does on special teams. His speed could be a huge asset on special teams.

We'll say Bye later -
I'm also shocked that the league listened. But it feels a bit like the league said fine, since you dont want the bye then, we are throwing everything at you. After the trip to London, they get a home game. And then they play at Washington, At Buffalo (coming off of a bye), At Detroit , home against the Cowboys (coming off a bye), Thursday night against the Titans. Follow that with 2 more road games before their bye. In this stretch they play 6 of their 9 games on the road. This stretch will definitely be tough.

Cuckoo for Coco -
I don't care who the long snapper is. As long as he gets the ball to the punter and holder.

OBJ -
OBJ could be a later season addition. He likely won't be ready until close to playoff time. But if they take a look at his knee and see where he is at, they could look to bring him in to learn the playbook before a playoff push. I am not saying they won't sign OBJ and I'm not saying they will. But just saying that if the timing is right, OBJ could be a later season addition that could work.

1 points
1
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:42 am

Coco played at 232 as a TE, but he apparently lost 30 pounds to get to that weight, which suggests that his frame will enable him to be a less movable object than Wirtel. That I do care about.

His snapping seems to have been extremely reliable, as one would hope, but I would also like to not have to watch a LS play turnstile as opponents charge our punter/kicker. Perhaps time as a blocking TE will help in that respect too.

0 points
2
2
Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:08 am

I would love to see an experienced S or Edge rusher join the Packers, leaning more towards S.

What I am interested in seeing are the players that are good enough to contribute to special teams with a potential expanded role if needed on the D with experience, talent and injuries playing a factor.

Truly curious to see how SP plays into the outcome of games just as much as O and D.

GPG!

2 points
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Rarescope's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:52 am

Yeah I think that new long snapper has backup edge rusher written all over him 😈

0 points
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Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 12:06 pm

Rare, the only way that happens is if Coco (?) gets too drunk at a party, passes out and a couple members of the team write "backup edge rusher" on his forehead with a sharpie.

Come on Rare...you got this ! :D

0 points
1
1
Rarescope's picture

May 18, 2022 at 10:26 pm

So after Barry somehow manages to only field 10 defensive players, Coco comes out of his drunken stupor just long enough to recognize the error. He immediately bolts onto the field, and, with a full head of steam charges straight into Tom Brady to clinch the NFCCG. Tampa Bay linemen stand around completely dumbfounded, then quickly begin pointing fingers at each other while they try to figure out who is responsible for blocking the long snapper on a non special teams play.

0 points
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Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:59 pm

Exactly!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! :D

0 points
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Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:05 am

fat fingers.... duplicate...my bad.✌️

Yep, I am the same with pushing elevator buttons :)

0 points
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JohnnyLogan's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:22 am

If the Packers had signed OBJ last year they'd likely have won the SB. The arguments by those against signing him last year are similar to the ones being made now. He's too big a personality, his best days are over, he's a locker room problem. None of that proved to be true.

OBJ was, to put it mildly, sensational for the Rams down the stretch and in the SB until he got hurt, racking up TDs on a team with Cooper Kupp yet. The man was once a legit superstar and we had a chance to sign him on the cheap. Now, incredibly, we have that chance again. 75% of what he was is better than 100% of Watkins or Fuller or any of the rookies we've got, despite all the hope we have for them. Even if Watson or Romeo has a Chase or Jefferson rookie year we can still use another high-end receiver in the playoffs. We've seen what Rodgers does when he only has one.

OBJ wanted to come to Green Bay. Said so. We couldn't or wouldn't pay him close to what the Rams did and our offense crapped the bed in the playoffs due mainly to the lack of a 2nd receiver. Now the stars have aligned and incredibly Gute is being offered the same candy bar, and I'm guessing he won't take it. The situation with OBJ is set up perfectly for the Packers. Sign him. Let him heal. Be a weapon in the playoffs. Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

-1 points
4
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:18 am

You dont know that. Last time OBJ played a cold weather playoff game (2016 vs Green Bay with the Giants) he was held to 4 catches for 28 yards while being covered by undrafted free agent Ladarius Gunter. And that was in his prime pre-ACL injury. And you're also assuming Rodgers would've actually looked at him. Lazard was getting open throughout that game and Rodgers never looked his way but hes gonna look for a guy they just signed cuz he used to be a superstar? Its not the apples to apples argument you're making it out to be. What needed to happen for them to win was for Rodgers to play better. Period.

7 points
8
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coolhand's picture

May 18, 2022 at 03:40 pm

And I would add, it was not only Rodgers, it was MLF and the offensive line he put out there. Nijman played solid all year and he get's benched for an injured Turner at LT and they leave Kelly at RT? Pure insanity and it showed as the game wore on. Rodgers did need to play better but the O line after the Big Dog fumble was never the same.

4 points
4
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Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:29 am

I would not sign any player at this point until we get past June 1st. Then add to our cap by chucking Lowry. That should add another $4 million to our cap savings.

If the right player is available sign him then. I would prioritize edge over safety but that is a matter of player availability and price. We might even be able to sign 2 players with the additional cap space and add depth at both edge and safety. Other options could be an experienced OL or WR and/or a TE.

No to OBJ. He's a problem in the locker room and he has always been all about himself. Plus he may not be ready to play until late in the season and he may be a shell of his former self.

Nice job as always AL. Thanks, Since '61

0 points
5
5
dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:40 am

"Plus he may not be ready to play until late in the season and he may be a shell of his former self."

This is the biggest reason to stay away--or at least "wait and see" on a player like OBJ. An ACL really isn't a career ending injury (unless you shred the entire knee in the process), but an 8-9 month recovery is rare, and the likelihood that he'll be anything more than a JAG under those circumstances (until 2023) is pretty low.

Curious how many people were unhappy with the idea of drafting a college WR with an ACL, but that would be under Packer control for years, but are OK with chasing a guy who might not give you much until 2023--when he's on to his next team.

2 points
5
3
Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 10:13 am

Dobber, we’re on the same page as usual. Plus for those who think AR is a prima Dona they haven’t seen anything until they
see OBJ. Living in NYC area I’m very familiar with the mess h made out of the Giants with his ridiculous antics in the field and on the sidelines.

Plus, when it comes to learning the offense he is not exactly known for picking it up very quickly. He doesn’t fit the Packers mold as a blocking WR either.

He brings too much baggage in terms of bad attitude and injuries. Pass for me. Thanks, Since ‘61

4 points
5
1
PeteK's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:43 am

Lowry does have value as an interior pass rusher with his 5 sacks and 4 blocked passes last season. We are 4th in the league in cap space with 16.7 mill, plenty mulla for moves.

2 points
2
0
Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 10:15 am

13-3 with him, 13-3 without him. Thanks, Since ‘61

0 points
1
1
Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:07 pm

"Chucking" the guy who has been our 2nd best defensive lineman over the last three years, after he just had his best season, makes little sense. It does not improve the defensive line.

Maybe Wyatt will be awesome, and maybe he'll struggle and miss time with injury. Maybe Reed will look like the guy he was a couple of years ago, or maybe he won't. But you can count on Lowry, who never misses practices or games, and who has TWICE accommodated the team by redoing his deal.

I'm aware that Lowry does a lot of things on that line that don't show up in the box score, but are appreciated by the coaching staff. He's a good player for us, and we should appreciate that.

1 points
4
3
Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:23 pm

We need DLs who are not pushed all over the field. The fact that Lowry is “our second best DL” is not a sign that Lowry is a good player, rather it is a sign of how poor our DL is besides Clark.

Lowry is usually pushed aside in the run game while Clark is double and even triple teamed. OCs are not scared of Lowry nor are they game planning to run away from him.

I doubt that any opposing OC has Lowry confused with Bob Lilly or Joe Green or Aaron Donald.

We are 13-3 with him, we can be 13-3 without him.
Let Wyatt and Slayton play. Lowry would be more in their way for developing than he is in the way of our opponents offense. Thanks, Since ‘61

1 points
3
2
dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:52 pm

The fact that Lowry's best seasons came with Mike Daniels or Rashan Gary playing across from him is meaningful.

0 points
2
2
Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 02:59 pm

Lowry isn’t terrible but he’s not a major rush threat even last season. He’s a guy who benefits from others. A good rotation man who is paid and has been played as a starter. This year I don’t see him getting as many snaps. The reason is that he’s never been stout enough against the run more so than his rushing ability.

I believe that we have better options now. He could be an overplayed situational piece or, if the right deal comes along, he could be elsewhere. I’m open to either. What I am hoping for is that he’s not our de facto number 2 DL again.

0 points
1
1
LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:27 pm

On paper he's still their best 3-4 DE. Maybe Reed can be that guy but he hasn't played that position in the pros. There's no doubt he'll play less snaps this year, I hope to not see him at 3T at all, but they still play base 30-35% of the time and might play it more this year with a deeper IDL group. IDK if there's cheaper options out there to play 3-4 DE for 30% of the snaps, maybe there is.

1 points
1
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 03:25 pm

Yes, it’s significant that better players around you help.

Come on Dobber.

1 points
1
0
Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 02:29 pm

And yet, we’ve had an above average defense with him.

Hey, if Slaton, or Wyatt, or Reed shows they’re better, then they should play. They haven’t shown that yet.

I need you to explain to me why a guy with a career AV of 44 is a Pro Bowler, and a guy with a career value of 35 is useless. I’ll wait. This should be good.

0 points
0
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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 04:42 pm

Lowry is one dimensional. Pass rush is the best part of his game, and if you look at his numbers and advanced stats, even those are pedestrian, at best.

How does a DE who's calling card is PR get a high of 16 QB Pressures in a season? That is maybe 1/2 of a large number.

Lowry has NEVER had double digit QB Hurries, in his 6 year career.

In his "career year," he still missed more than 10% of his Tackles.

He's also NEVER had more than 3 QB Knock Downs in one season over a 6 year span.

THAT's his SPECIALTY???

Holding an edge? No. I don't see what you're seeing there, LH.

3 points
3
0
Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:03 pm

Let's compare Clark and Lowry. Both in the league 6 years, both in Green Bay.

Lowry has played 96 games, Clark 89. This has been the defensive line for the Packers for the last three years, and every one of those years, we've had an above average defense, despite injuries to key people and the presence of weaker links like King, Barnes, Lancaster, etc. playing way more than we'd want them to.

But let's not give any credit for that to Lowry. None. Zero.

In the six years they have been here, Clark has 283 combined tackles, Lowry 209.
Clark has 33 tackles for loss, Lowry has 22.
Clark has 45 career hits on QB, Lowry has 29.
Clark has 22.5 sacks, Lowry 15.

So, over their six year careers, Clark has been a better player, clearly. But you can't argue that Clark is a top DL (which I think he is) and that a guy who is just a little less productive is a slug. Pick a lane.

On a per game basis, it's even more obvious. Per game, Clark has 3.2 tackles and assists, Lowry has 2.2. So that's ONE tackle/game difference. Clark averages 0.3 sacks per game, and Lowry averages 0,2

Clark is a very good player. Lowry is a good player. Together, they've combined to be the core of the defensive line during a 39-10 run. That deserves some respect.

-2 points
0
2
LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:30 pm

By DVOA they were 15th, 17th and 22nd the last 3 years. Hardly above average.

1 points
1
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 07:15 pm

By points.....which is what they count on the scoreboard.....they were better.

0 points
0
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:42 pm

So you think it's fair to compare one guy that's getting consistently double teamed to another that's not? Clark is the 2nd best NT in the league, Lowry is definitely not the 2nd best 5T in the league and when they play him at 3T he's been downright bad. Thankfully they solved the issue of him playing 3T unless Reed or Wyatt get hurt and even then he won't be getting the majority of snaps there.

Lowry is what he is, a pretty good 5T on a team that plays 5Ts about 30% of the time. I don't think that's worth $8 million but there's probably not a lot of other options out there and it seems like Gutey actively avoids drafting 3-4 DEs for whatever reason. Probably a big reason why the Steelers play a lot more with 3 down linemen than the Packers do. Maybe that changes this year or maybe their content to have a strong rotation in their sub package looks.

3 points
3
0
Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 07:21 pm

I think it's a team sport, Chesty. Do you think one guy should get paid $20 million and another guy get paid $500K? How about all those times that Lowry cleared out a clear path for Z? Does that count for anything?

So if Clark is one of the best in the league, and his career AV is 44, and Lowry has a career
AV of 35 and that makes him below average? That seems like a pretty steep delineation.

Here's a prediction. Wyatt and/or Reed will miss time with injury, and Lowry will pick up their snaps. I'll predict Lowry will have more snaps than either of those guys this season. Care to bet a Pabst on that.

0 points
0
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Pantz_Burp's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:33 am

Pabst? I fear for the person that wins...smh (drinking that nectar of the Gods in college).....SpLaT- on the sidewalk,!

0 points
0
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Oppy's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:51 pm

I'm not specifically replying to you, LLCHESTY, or anyone in particular. This is just a comment on this particular thread.

I'm not a big Lowry fan. I thought he was horrible and couldn't understand why the Packers originally extended him a few years back. That said, he's had a few seasons where he played much better than I ever thought he would. That's not to say he played great, just better than I expected.

As someone mentioned in a different thread when I was talking about Clark, the Packers line up in enough sub package that it's probably not fair to call Lowry's position out as a 3-4 DE... but if we were to do so, the true measure of his impact really isn't his QB hits, hurries, sacks, run stops, or TFL.. You have to look at the play of the OLB lined up next to the 3-4 DE to get a real ideal of their value.

So much of gauging a player's impact, particularly in DL play in various schemes, isn't what measurable stats the player racks up at the end of the season, but how that player's play enabled the playmakers who line up beside him or behind him to rack up the recordables.

DE's in a 3-4 have a primary responsibility to keep the OLB clean so the OLB can make the play.

0 points
0
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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 07:53 pm

Ha! Wow!

You’re comparing All-Pro NT stats to DE. What part of Clark always being double and triple teamed, from the Nose Tackle position is lost on you here?

LH, this is just dumb. Compare him to other 5-Techs, and it’s plain as day that Lowry is not a particularly good 5-Tech. He’s all pass rush, with no run stop, and if last year was his career year? Wow. It’s not like he’s any kind of pass rushing force. It’s just that PR is his best attribute, and the results nothing more than average there.

Start comparing Lowry’s numbers to other 5-Tech DEs in the NFL, and then we’ll have something to talk about.

Doesn’t that make sense in this case?

1 points
1
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Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:18 pm

gg, Lowry is an example of over valuing one of our own players. He would be fine as a 2nd stringer on a very strong DL. But as a player who plays 60-65% of the defensive snaps he just can't "run with the big dogs" with any consistency. We need better play from our DLs not named Clark. Thanks, Since '61

2 points
2
0
greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 03:04 am

In the 8 playoff games Dean Lowry has played in, he has a total of 7 solo tackles, 8 assists, and 1 PD.

ZERO SACKS.

ZERO TFL.

ZERO QB PRESSURES.

Playing in 67, 89, 88. 75, 83% of the Defensive Snaps in his last 5 playoff games respectively.

DEAN LOWRY NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

1 points
1
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Leatherhead's picture

May 19, 2022 at 12:42 pm

You do it. You compare Lowry to other, AVERAGE, veteran 5-Techs in the NFL.

I looked at salary, because that seems to be a big issue for him. I don't see a single, veteran, 5 tech who makes less than Lowry as an upgrade.

Let's take a look at very similar player, Yannick Ngakoue. He was drafted the same year as Clark and Lowry, in the third round. He's missed very few games...very durable, and plays over 700 snaps pretty much every year. He's had 172 tackles and assists and an impressive 56 sacks. He's a $13 million cap hit this year.

Or let's try Mario Edwards. He was taken in the 2nd round the year before Lowry. He has 118 tackles and assists, and 17 sacks. Not better, but a little cheaper with a cap hit of $4 million.

Jordan Jenkins is cheaper, too. He was taken the year before Lowry. He's been pretty productive, even though he's missed a few games every season. Over 200 tackles and assists, 25 sacks. So this is ONE guy I've found that you could make a reasonable argument that he's better and cheaper.

Let me ask you this: Gutekunst kept this guy and dumped Daniels. Montravious Adams didn't take snaps from him, neither did Kingsley Keke. The team has reworked his contract twice so they could keep him.

I don't see how this team has been successful over the last three years without an inside LB and only one decent DL. I need that explained to me. It makes more sense that Lowry is actually a better player for us than you're giving him credit for, IMO.

In any event, everybody can go ahead and throw stones at Lowry all they want. Gutekunst, LaFleur, and I like him in the lineup.

0 points
0
0
greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 07:59 pm

“Throwing stones?” You’ve got to be kidding me. When ZEROS are added to BOTH a paycheck AND a stat sheet, there’s a problem.

That’s the opposite of “VALUE.”

What exactly is there to like about his playoff performances?

It is not “unreasonable,” to expect more than ZERO SACKS, ZERO PRESSURES, ZERO TFL. IN 8 PLAYOFF GAMES!!!

The Packers greatest struggles have been in advancing in the playoffs, for over a decade. The Packers DL has ranked no higher than 24th in the NFL since 2018, and as low as 31st (2019 - according to Football Outsiders). Dean Lowry has played roughly 75% of our defensive snaps in that span. If Kenny Clark didn’t suck, then who did?

Lowry has been awful in the playoffs. His regular season pass rush numbers are pedestrian, and he offers so little in run stop that he’s a liability.

Merely stating facts.

1 points
1
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Oppy's picture

May 21, 2022 at 02:44 am

"It is not “unreasonable,” to expect more than ZERO SACKS, ZERO PRESSURES, ZERO TFL. IN 8 PLAYOFF GAMES!!!"

That really depends on what you're being asked to do.

The team knows what they're asking the players to do, and they review the tape of every snap and assess how well the players do their job. On every single snap.

While I agree there could be an upgrade over Lowry, I don't think he's as bad as many of us seem to think he is. I used to think he was lousy. Now I just kind of think he's average.

0 points
0
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greengold's picture

May 21, 2022 at 05:36 am

Oh, man, Opps.

Is he being asked to fall down in a heap? “Now when you take the hit, be sure to recoil backwards from your previously established position. That’s it. That’s it… Now, flail your arms!”

LOL. It’s a nice thought, but, no.

He’s not the one pulling double teams.

0 points
0
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Oppy's picture

May 21, 2022 at 06:50 pm

Don't have to pull double teams on the edge of the DL that features 3-4 OLB's. The NT pulls the double; that means on one side of the formation there's only a single tackle to account for. 3-4 DE's are generally tasked with keeping that lone tackle tied up so the OLB has a clean path to the QB or ball carrier- they're the primary play makers.

0 points
0
0
Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:00 pm

Leatherhead first things first. My explanation is irrelevant but the Packers explain it this way. Since his rookie season Clark has played no less than 70% of the defensive snaps in a season. He has played as many as 84% and 83% of the defensive snaps. In 2021 he played 782 snaps or 78% of the defensive snaps.

Following his rookie season Lowry has never played more than 66% of the defensive snaps in a season. In 2021 Lowry played 674 snaps or 63% of the defensive snaps.

The Packers also explain the difference between the 2 players by paying Clark $70 million over 4 years and Lowry $20 million over 3 years. Clark has earned 2 Pro Bowls to 0 for Lowry.

Possibly most importantly our opponents explain it by double teaming Clark on every play while pushing Lowry aside one on one.

As for the Approximate Value (AV) anything with Approximate as a title should not be considered a very reliable metric. However I will let the designer, Doug Drinen, of the alleged metric address that issue in his own words:

"The purpose of this page is to post the full details of the Approximate Value method, Doug Drinen's method of putting a single numerical value on any player's season, at any position, from any year (for now, it's just any year since 1950).

I’ll just state upfront that this is a case where I’m not necessarily opposed to tweaking the metric until it gives us results we’re happy with, instead of picking a theoretical basis and forcing ourselves to stick with it. As I quoted Bill James in the last post: “These approximations are not intended to tell you anything at all about the player that you do not already know.” They’re not supposed to teach us new things; they’re merely supposed to codify the things we already know, so it’s OK to cook the books a little bit until they do tell us what we already know. The problem here is that none of us really knows how to compare Tarik Glenn’s 2006 to Gary Clark’s 1991. And to the extent that we do “know,” we all “know” different things. The point is: while I do think we need some sort of theory to get us started in certain areas, I won’t be too apologetic about making some arbitrary changes if a strict application of the theory leads us to “wrong” answers.

On the offensive side, I let the theory drive the method for the most part, only tweaking the constants a little bit.

On the defensive side of the ball, things just aren't so clear. If we split a defense's production into rushing defense and passing defense, to what extent do then divvy up the passing defense points between pass rushers and pass defenders? I really don't have a clue how to answer that question in general. How much credit do linebackers get for pass defense versus run defense? I don't know. How do we account for the fact that some teams use three linemen and four linebackers and some do the opposite?

I'd rather admit ignorance than pretend to know. So where that leaves me is with defensive players being treated somewhat similarly to offensive linemen. That is, while stats will figure into it to some extent, a defensive player's rating will be largely based on how many games he played, how many games he started, how good his team was defensively, and whether he garnered any all-pro or pro bowl honors."

To me the above paragraphs do not describe a very reliable metric for any player. I do not put any credence in the AV as an approach for measuring players. If I had included the methodology and formula which is used to arrive at a player's AV I would need another site to fit it all in. It makes the salary cap computations look like child's play. So how they come up with Clark's AV as opposed to Lowry's I have no idea.

What I do know is that another team would give the Packers a lot more for Clark than for Lowry if both were up for a trade. We've been waiting for 4-5 seasons for the Packers to provide some legitimate support for Clark on the DL. Hopefully we now have some legit support for Clark with the signing of Reed and the drafting of Wyatt. Hopefully Slaton can contribute as well. We'll see. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 19, 2022 at 03:33 am

AV is a horrible stat. Pretty sure I wrote a rant about it at some point.

OG Byron Bell got 4 AV while he was in GB. Nuff said.

4 points
4
0
Since'61's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:29 am

TGR, you did write a rant about it. Bell is a perfect example of how ridiculously arbitrary it is. IMO it's not a stat at all since it has no reliability and tells us nothing about the player. Stay safe.
Thanks, Since '61

1 points
1
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Leatherhead's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:34 am

You're arguing that Clark is better than Lowry. I've already said that, several times.

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:34 am

You're arguing that Clark is better than Lowry. I've already said that, several times.

0 points
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Since'61's picture

May 19, 2022 at 05:44 pm

Yes, and we agree on that. However, you also asked me to explain the AV for Clark and Lowry and you said that you would wait so I did not want to keep you waiting. Stay safe. Thanks, Since '61

1 points
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PeteK's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:48 pm

When you combine his sack, hurries, and hits, you see his good value on passing downs.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 03:23 pm

When you compare Clark and Lowry over six years, on a per game basis, no reasonable person would conclude that one is a stud and the other a stiff. It’s just not supported by the facts. One more tackle per game. One more QB hit every six games.

Clark is a very good player. Lowry is a good player.

-3 points
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3
Coldworld's picture

May 19, 2022 at 09:11 am

I may not be reasonable but I am perplexed at your notion that Lowry is and has been a plus starter throughout his career. He’s mostly been adequate at best and sometimes an out and out liability in the run game. He’s a player that one can live with as a starter but should be trying not to have to. That’s been the consensus for ever and one I agree with.

1 points
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Untylu1968's picture

May 19, 2022 at 11:12 am

Those are stats, that come from a very average guy, surrounded by three studs. Imagine a fourth stud on the line, which we now have, along with potentially better lineman than Dean. That very well could be wasted money, sitting on the bench.

0 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:21 am

Lowry is coming off the best season of his career. Theyre not just going to dump him. D-line, which used to be a weakness for this team, is now one of its strengths, and you want to change that before the season even starts? Why? Lowry is a solid and affordable player. Dumping him now would be a mistake.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 03:01 pm

He’s not particularly affordable for what he is. He’s paid to be a 3 down guy. He’s really never been that. He’d likely be much better getting less snaps and focusing on passing downs.

1 points
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 03:37 pm

So your issue is he signed the contract that was offered, when he should have said “I’m not worth that”? It seems like that’s more on the organization than Lowry.

Show me one veteran DL who is better than Lowry and makes less than $5 million a year. I don’t think you can.

0 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:09 pm

Lowry is not a desirable starter. By the end of this year he likely won’t be a starter at all in my view. He is an adequate player but a starter that one should be aiming to improve upon. Based on this draft it looks like they share that opinion in Lambeau.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:58 pm

He might be a "starter" but be getting less snaps than Reed and Wyatt. They start the game in base but play a lot more sub package than base. As far as importance I think 3T in 2nd and 3rd and long is more important than DE on 1st and 10. You could argue way more important and if you look at paychecks the NFL would probably agree.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

May 19, 2022 at 09:14 am

Yes, I accept that. Loose language usage, but even more correctly put, the thrust is in the direction I was going.

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 19, 2022 at 12:07 pm

I liked the idea of letting Lowry go and picking up Foley Fatukasi on a $4.5-5 million a year deal and then he got 3 years/$30 million from the Jaguars. So I really don't know what 3-4 DEs are worth these days. I wouldn't consider Fatukasi a top 10 DE, he's very good vs the run but a limited pass rusher. He's definitely not someone you're going to want to move inside on passing downs, but Lowry shouldn't be either. It will be interesting to see what kind of a deal Lowry gets next year.

0 points
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HawkPacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:42 am

'I would not sign any player at this point until we get past June 1st. Then add to our cap by chucking Lowry.' Since'61, I have been saying this for the last few months and there are some that do not agree with my thinking. I just don't think Lowry is that good for what we are/have been paying him. With the additions this offseason, it sure seems like the FO will dump him post June 1.

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:25 pm

" I just don't think Lowry is that good for what we are/have been paying him"..

Per Spotrac., for 2022 Lowry counts a hair over $8 million this year. Some of that is money that was restructured to help the team in the past, some of it is the pro-rated signing bonus, some of it is roster bonus, workout bonus, etc. $5 million is his salary, and if we cut him post June 1, we'll gain almost $6 million in cap relief and a few million in dead money.

Kenny Clark was drafted the same year as Dean Lowry. Clark was a first round pick, Lowry a 4th. According to pro-football-reference.com, Clark has a career AV of 44, which is pretty good, as he's considered one of the better defensive tackles in the league.

Lowry, has appeared in more games than Clark. He doesn't have as many sacks or tackles, but his career AV is still 35, which is pretty respectable.

The data would suggest that Clark is a better player than Lowry, and I think we'd all agree with that. But it's not like Lowry is a can of stale beer. He's been a good player.

Yes, we've added Wyatt and Reed and have the strongest DL we've had in quite a while, but you would weaken it before the season even starts by cutting one of the guys who has been a part of an above average defense the last three years and who statistically has been pretty productive.

I think it's a bad move, and it's an unnecessary move. We don't need to save the money.

1 points
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greengold's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:38 pm

It’s a BAD MOVE keeping a DE who cannot hold the edge or stop the run, when we need to stop the run.

My god man. Put on the 1st Minnesota game from last year and watch Lowry work his 2 tackles magic. Because that’s all he got, after getting spun into the turf all day long by Reilly Reiff.

He’s a liability to run D on the same level as Brandon Bostic was a liability on STs.

You plug all the holes in a dam. You don’t leave one open like that, expecting to hold water. How many important games are lost on one key play? A 1st down… when all hope seems lost..? Why leave that possibility open to our opponents?

Lowry, getting pushed backwards, on skates. It’s not a good look. Especially for opposing OCs, desperate to gain a much needed 3rd and short. Don’t put him in then you say? Probably wouldn’t get the chance, because they’ll call that running play at Lowry on 2nd down… when everybody is thinking pass.

He is our Brandon Bostic on D… a coach killer.

I’m sorry for being blunt, but, enough of this dancing around it stuff.

1 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 19, 2022 at 12:36 am

Lowry did finish with a higher PFF grade than Clowney, who had his lowest graded season since his rookie year. A little worrisome considering Myles Garrett was playing on the other side of him. His sack to pressures ratio was pretty high too, probably not sustainable.

0 points
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greengold's picture

May 19, 2022 at 02:31 am

This is exactly where PFF grades prove themselves to be meaningless. A prime example, LLCHESTY. Thank you.

PFF should be considered nothing more than a data mine, because the data alone is great.

PFF grades? Completely without value. Worthless.

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 19, 2022 at 12:14 pm

So they shouldn't be looked at when Clowney was getting really high grades the three years before that? I trust them more for line play because it's easier to determine their assignments than other positions

PFF has their issues but for the most part if they have a guy graded quite a bit lower than the year before it's for a reason.

0 points
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JohnnyLogan's picture

May 18, 2022 at 08:53 am

"No to OBJ. He's a problem in the locker room and he has always been all about himself. Plus he may not be ready to play until late in the season and he may be a shell of his former self."

Here we go again, the same song as last year. For a handful of beans, you might have a legit superstar, who wasn't "a problem in the locker room" or "all about himself" last year when he scored touchdown after touchdown when it counted... and yet we hear him blasted again. His teammates loved him. He played his ass off. He helped the Rams win a SB.

If the medical staff thinks he'll be able to play in the playoffs, sign him, even if it's a gamble. It's a handful of beans.

0 points
3
3
Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 10:29 am

Sorry, but I live in the NYC area and I’m familiar with what he did to the Giants while he was there. Also if he is so valuable to have on the team why has every team he’s been with moved on from him. Yes he has some talent. But is that a reason to risk locker room disruption not to mention that he will be coming off his 2nd ACL which is likely to affect his effectiveness.

TD after TD???!!! Really. In 14 games in 2021 OBJ had 44 receptions for 544 Yards and 5 TDs. If 5 TDs in 14 is your definition of TD after TD your criteria is pretty low. His stats average out to 3 receptions per game, about 39 yards per game and 1 TD every 3 games. We can get that production out of one of rookie receivers without dealing with the baggage that OBJ brings. As for the playoffs he had 2 TDs in 4 playoff games. So much for TD after TD. These are the results before he injured his ACL again.

The Packers don’t need a guy who won’t be available until November/December at best and will need to learn the offense in a few weeks. He is not known for being the brightest bulb in the block either. Pass.
Thanks, Since ‘61

2 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:22 am

He's also torn his ACL twice and might not even play this year. Can we move on please?

2 points
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Since'61's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:14 pm

No problem for me, I’ve already moved on. Thanks, Since ‘61

2 points
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wildbill's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:00 am

King knows the WRs in the NFL. He should as he can read the name on their jersey as he is chasing them.

3 points
6
3
PeteK's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:49 am

Hahahaha, he might have a chance at deep safety because he can start running towards the end zone 8 yards ahead of the WRs and trip somebody up, probably one of our DBs.

1 points
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HawkPacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 12:38 pm

Bill, I am one who believes that maybe they should add him if needed. However, I gave you a thumbs up with your narrative.....pretty funny WB.

1 points
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wildbill's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:36 pm

Thanks, I am also ok with him being added on a cheap deal. Just trying to have some fun

0 points
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davekenya's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:22 am

This is 'off topic' and can be deleted or moved to a comment under a new article but for now...

There likely will be much reaction to Elgton Jenkins' Green Bay restaurant tweet https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/local-restaurant-responds-...

Our hometown (Anacortes WA) went through a somewhat related incident September 2021 and b/c complete information was not shared, readers, restaurant patrons, and others filled in the gaps with information of varied levels of truth. I would encourage all to try to get more complete information before rendering either an opinion or comment on what did/didn't happen. In our case, the restaurant ultimately had to close.

I feel like there is likely more information that would be helpful to share so that readers don't misinterpret anyone and draw the wrong conclusions. Incidents like this can 'take on an extended life of their own' otherwise...(google 'Greek Islands Restaurant Anacortes breastfeeding' to learn impact information can have on both community and restaurant - example from 2021 at our local restaurant. The restaurant tried 'sanitizing' their Facebook page you'll notice, which did not help resolve the matter to anyone's satisfaction).

1 points
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MarkinMadison's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:50 am

The article talks about people posting after Jenkins and calling them racist. If you look through the linked comments you will find them. I don't think this is cool. If you didn't experience it yourself, don't talk about it. There are also a lot of older comments (months and years older) talking about the staff and bartender being rude, etc. I'm not saying Jenkins is wrong. It's certainly possible that the bartender is rude AND racist, I just wouldn't pile on if you don't have any direct experience with this restaurant to add. If you don't want to give them your money though, that is your choice.

2 points
3
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MarkinMadison's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:50 am

Duplicate.

0 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:27 am

Oh FFS. "They didnt bend their rules to cater to me so they're racist." So sick of this bs.

2 points
4
2
LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:11 pm

I worked in Anacortes at one of the refineries there a few years ago and stayed in Bellingham. I worked nights and really enjoyed the drive home in the morning with the sun coming up. Very nice scenery and good people.

0 points
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davekenya's picture

May 20, 2022 at 10:57 am

It's a beautiful drive...either going over the Berentson Bridge...seeing the sun starting to creep over the Cascades while all the fog lingers below in the Valley. When there was time, it was then nice to go the 'local route' and meander through Edison and take Chuckanut.

I live in Anacortes and worked at Bellingham Tech College -- where we trained students as Instrument Techs and also as Process Technicians -- both good refinery careers.

BTW...HollyFrontier Corp. is the new owner of the Shell Puget Sound Refinery in Anacortes. Shell Oil Products U.S. recently completed the previously announced sale of the refinery to Dallas-based HollyFrontier, according to a news release from HollyFrontier

0 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 19, 2022 at 04:49 am

It was interesting, but I don't think I know anything. I do have in-laws who run a business. Once or twice someone posted bad reviews, and suffice to say their recitation of the facts bore no relationship to reality.

Rebecca Pilon left this review of the restaurant Jenkins went to one month ago (prior to the Jenkins incident):

"The food quality has declined significantly & service is awful. I stopped in tonight to give them another chance & they seated others who came in after I did & then suggested that those who came in later had a pager to be seated sooner, which they didn’t."

One or two other reviews mentioned poor service (refusing to push tables together, another mentioning a rude bartender.

I don't know if Rebecca Pilon is a POC. It may be that the way this restaurant seats people rubs people the wrong way.

0 points
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 19, 2022 at 12:25 pm

My mom has a friend who is a POC who lives in the outskirts of Atlanta. She sometimes stops in Atlanta for a day or two to visit the lady when she flies to Florida. A few years ago she told me they went to eat at Cracker Barrel and had a few people that came in after then seated first. I guess my mom bitched out the manager and they got a free meal and $20 gift certificates. She said it was because her friend was black but I didn't totally believe her. A couple months later I saw an article about blacks in the South complaining about the same thing in regards to Cracker Barrel.

0 points
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MarkinMadison's picture

May 18, 2022 at 09:54 am

Ja Money sounds like a great name for a rapper.

I don't think anyone should talk about OBJ until at least October. See what we got. He won't be ready to sign with anyone until after that anyway. I suspect he will just go to the Rams unless they are somehow out of the hunt.

Rico - I can think of guys who tried to do WR --> CB before. I think he is the first one I remember who tried to do CB --> WR coming out of college. Strange choice. CB --> CB sounds smarter.

2 points
2
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PeteK's picture

May 18, 2022 at 10:12 am

I say hold on to the cap money. As pre and regular season progresses we will have a better view of our needs and there are always good players available during the season. OBJ has matured especially after Browns let him go, but I still want to wait.

1 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:30 am

OBJ didnt mature. Cancer goes into remission sometimes, but it usually comes back. Already too much diva on this offense.

3 points
3
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 10:13 am

Well, I'm just superhappy. We got a fire breathing special teams coach, a new punter, another long snapper, and a couple more kickers. We've brought some special teams demons on board. So I guess I can just relax now, knowing that some overamped 23 year old isn't going to make a blunder on special teams. What a relief!!

Imagine this. Because kicks, punts, returns, field goals, etc. there's more than 25 special teams plays in a lot of games, and now I can rest easy that we won't have any mistakes in the 400 special teams plays or anything. I'm ecstatic. Who would have thought that it was as easy as this? It makes you wonder why special teams blunders have been costing teams games for 100 years when that's all you have to do to fix it.

XXXXXXXXXXXX

No to OBJ, or any receiver. The group we have is good enough to win with.

-4 points
0
4
HawkPacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:51 am

Leatherhead, we shall see what happens to the ST's this year. Just look at the blunders with ST's since our new coach took over. We had a chance to hire a great ST coach but he wanted more money so we scoffed and then hey let's pay him.....too late as he was scarfed up by another team. Then we hire a guy that doesn't work out so we fire his ass and say hey let's hire his assistant to see how he will do. Now why would we think the assistant coach of the previous coach would be good when the original coach was not? I remember watching the first game with that new coach (who was the assistant previously) and the look on his face was total confusion.

So far it looks like we got a pretty good ST coach....time will tell.

2 points
2
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:16 pm

I've been playing, watching, and coaching football for over 50 years and the nature of special teams never really changes. You get guys injured, you get penalties that hurt you, you turn it over, most punt returns are for short yardage, most kick returns don't go past the 35. Missed or blocked FGs occur, and that's the same as a turnover.

Occasionally, rarely, you will win a game because of a great special teams play.
Much, much more often, you will lose a game, in part, because of a special teams snafu.

None of that changes because you have a new coach, or some new guys. It's the nature of the beast. I finally accepted it about 15 years ago because it made no sense to me to spend millions on Rodgers and Davante, etc., and then put the game in the hands of some rookie UDFA from Boondocks U.

Reduce the ability of special teams to have a negative impact on the game. Yes, you still have to kick off, but if you just ram it through the endzone, that stops the return. You can punt out of bounds....0 yards in returns for the entire season. You can fair catch punts, thereby eliminating the injuries and penalties, and hopefully the turnovers. You can refuse to return kicks you don't have to (and the Packers, and several other teams, already do this). Sometimes, you can go for it on 4th down instead of kicking the FG, or punting.

That's stuff that'll actually work.

-2 points
0
2
Ferrari-Driver's picture

May 18, 2022 at 10:36 am

Rico Gafford with 4.22 40 time. Sounds like a potential gunner who could be an asset to our special teams while Coach Gray improves his corner back skills.

5 points
5
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:03 am

If Player X can run 40 yards in his underwear in 4.22 seconds, how fast can he run 40 yards in pads with people pushing against him, often against a double team?

Punt every ball out of bounds. 0 yards in punt returns for the season, #1 in the league. Gunners are not required.

-5 points
0
5
Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:13 am

Move Lazard (lizard) to TE baby!!! Say bye to a couple tight ends that won't make the cut...stay away from OBJ...and tell Jordy to get in shape...treat him like #4 and fly down there until he agrees to coming back to the Pack. Also, reach out to CM3, Raji, and ?

My work is done...mic drop... 🎤

-1 points
1
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:30 am

You'd rather have Lazard as an undersized TE than as a big WR? How does that help our blocking?

When we have Lazard at WR, and Lewis at TE, that's 7 pretty good blockers right there. It's part of the reason Dillon and Jones are so effective. If you put weaker blockers at those two positions, we probably don't move the ball as well.

0 points
1
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Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:37 am

I think Lazard with his effectiveness as a blocker and decent catching ability could be a sneaky very good TE than good WR. Now, he has to buy into this and the coaching staff have to agree. Plus, my phone ain't ringing off the hook from even Mike or Wes at 1265 Lombardi Ave. But, if this did happen Leather...I would reinact the scene at the restaurant in When Harry Met Sally...go, go, yes, yessss, YESSSS!

0 points
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Leatherhead's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:47 am

I don't think I'd want to see Lazard as TE, or you reenacting that scene.

As a WR, Lazard is larger that the people he blocks and he has the outside leverage so he doesn't have to move anybody out of the way. As a TE, he'd be smaller than the people he blocks and he'd have to move them out of the way. IMO, it would instantly make our run game less effective.

0 points
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1
Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:52 am

Fair enough Leather, fair enough... :D

Thanks for sharing your insight, opinion.👍

0 points
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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 12:11 pm

He's a good blocker against guys his size and smaller. That's who he currently is asked to block. Make him start blocking guys bigger than him? I don't like his odds.

2 points
3
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Coldworld's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:57 pm

He’s a very physical blocker for a WR, but he doesn’t in line block even as much as Tonyan or in the same contexts. Even less so compared to a conventional dual purpose TE.

0 points
1
1
Pantz_Burp's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:23 am

Alright, alright....I am rethinking moving Lizard 🦎 to TE with your feedback.

I am RELUCTANTLY picking up the mic.....🙌

1 points
1
0
splitpea1's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:33 am

duplicate

0 points
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0
splitpea1's picture

May 18, 2022 at 11:33 am

None of those safety options really sound that great....Collins is the youngest of the bunch at 28, but he's also a hybrid type that I'm not sure we're looking for right now. Tartt is injury-prone, McCourty is old, and the Packers would have to be strongly convinced that Gipson would be able to bounce back. So I don't know; maybe a better option will pop up later or Gute can pluck another gem that's been toiling in obscurity somewhere else.

4 points
4
0
BradHTX's picture

May 18, 2022 at 12:29 pm

I think the resigning of Campbell and the drafting of Walker (as well as Carpenter, as a LB-S hybrid) significantly reduces the need for a "in the box" SS type. Collins and Tartt probably don't do much to improve the position.

McCourty's stats have been pretty weak: the last three seasons, he hasn't cracked 50 tackles and has 1 INT and 11 total PD. Gipson is a bit better and a little younger.

A player I really wonder about is Tre Boston. Why has he completely fallen off the face of the earth? He's only 29yo, and while he wasn't a world-beater his first three years in Carolina, he wasn't bad. Yet they shipped him off to the Chargers in 2017, then he went to Arizona in 2018, and he was pretty darn good: 79 tackles both years, 5 INTs in 2017 and 3 in 2018 (in 14 games), 8 PD in '17 and 9 in '18. He came back to the Panthers in 2019-2020, and again, he was pretty darn solid: 68 tackles, 3 INT and 11 PD in '19, 95 tackles, 1 INT and 4 PD in '20. For perspective, those numbers aren't out of line with Savage's production. And yet the Panthers cut him, and despite Drew Rosenhaus screaming "Hey, my man Tre is available, y'all!" he was out of the NFL in 2021. He doesn't even seem to have an injury, the Panthers just cut him as a cost-saving move it seems.

This seems to me to be the kind of vet minimum, no risk-all upside signing that Gute loves. Heck, he's willing to be signed to a PRACTICE SQUAD. Make it happen, Gute.

1 points
1
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dobber's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:55 pm

There's got to be more to the Tre Boston story that we're not seeing.

2 points
2
0
BradHTX's picture

May 18, 2022 at 02:44 pm

Maybe there is, but if so, there’s nothing out there about a career ending injury.

1 points
1
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 04:31 pm

Boston publicly voiced support for Kaepernick and was one of the first players to start kneeling for the national anthem iirc.

0 points
1
1
LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:17 pm

That was Reid

0 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:42 pm

Boston did too when he was with the Panthers to the point the Panthers owner at the time Jerry Richardson banned kneeling for the flag.

0 points
1
1
Johnblood27's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:37 pm

bingo

0 points
1
1
LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:22 pm

From what I've seen he's a deeply religious man and helps out at a youth athletic facility in his hometown in Florida. Doesn't seem like a guy that would be a character concern.

1 points
1
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LLCHESTY's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:28 pm

Maybe it's his agent? 🤔

Seriously though, Carolina did him no favors playing him out of position in 2020. He also wasn't the fastest guy so maybe teams are afraid he's lost a step after sitting out 2021? So many teams want interchangeable safeties, maybe a guy only good at playing deep has less value than we think? It doesn't make sense to me but it could be.

1 points
1
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Pantz_Burp's picture

May 18, 2022 at 12:21 pm

Question: Does CheeseHead TV hand out awards for MVP, ROTY, Most Improved Commenter?

Reason I ask is, I feel I got a great chance at winning ROTY...just thinkin' and just sayin'...

"Thank you, thank you....("please sit and make yourself comfortable"..the standing O has gone on now for over 6 minutes, and counting)... thank you...to all the people that......."

Burp

0 points
1
1
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 19, 2022 at 04:58 am

I think Jersey Al would tell me that I can't respond the way I want to, so....
😁

3 points
3
0
Pantz_Burp's picture

May 19, 2022 at 08:00 am

Thank you TGR, thank you! I appreciate your self-restraint! If you all wanted to you could have buried me. You like a pileated woodpecker and me a chunk of suet getting hammered! ✌️😁💪

I have come to realize...I don't know beans. But having fun and learning (hopefully not at the expense of others).

0 points
0
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WestCoastPackerBacker's picture

May 18, 2022 at 01:16 pm

Didn't OBJ turn down GB last. year? I don't think he wants to play in green and gold.

1 points
1
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Swisch's picture

May 18, 2022 at 05:03 pm

I guess the way for the Packers to give players contracts that make them highest-paid at their position is to write them in such a way that the team can reasonably get out of the contract if the player becomes injured or disinterested.
I want to be fair to the player, but also protect the rest of the team -- as well as the fans.

0 points
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Return_To_Sanity's picture

May 18, 2022 at 06:44 pm

It's always about guaranteed money. The overall contract numbers dont matter. But since they get signing bonuses that get spread out over the life of their contracts, they have to make them 4 and 5 year deals otherwise they would just be void years.

1 points
1
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Reghamster's picture

May 19, 2022 at 05:14 am

Reading through all the latest ink spilled about the Packers and in particular their draft , I am more excited than usual. Apparently , Tariq Carpenter is the real deal. He actually may help in a true hybrid role as both a safety and linebacker. Watson only scares me because of his drops but he seems a strong blocker a reliable YAC wr and someone who can decoy if nothing else over the top type we thus replacing MVS and even Tae in some respects. Their new Edge may turn out to be a real find. I thought the kid from FSU should maybe not have been passed on but the first 2 picks look legit. The resigning of Alexander makes sense . Young and Pro Bowl CBS are rare. I like everyone am glad they brought in a new potential long snapper who was pretty good at Texas A & M overall despite a tendency towards penalties which could be taught away from so he may be more than just a LS. Finally, last year we all watched as the LA Rams win a Super Bowl in part by going all in late in the season and signing some late vets to help seal the deal. Meanwhile, the Packers couldn't score enough against the 9ers even despite the sad state of the STs. So signing an old injured player a la Beckham etc. may make sense. When I look at our WR receiver corps a lot of bodies hit even more question marks! If I were the Packers, I might still be looking at Wr, Edge and S for the free agency. But I feel more confident than ever in a good team who did well in the draft. If we compare the Packers against last years playoff teams , who drafted better?

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Untylu1968's picture

May 19, 2022 at 07:20 am

How much "success" that Lowry has experienced, is due to being surrounded by three studs? Imagine throwing another beast on the line. Always been a fan of his, but the money can be spent elsewhere.

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