Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - April 14 2021

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

 

Play it Again Sam-uel?

Reports say that the Packers have met with Asante Samuel twice, in addition to GM Brian Gutekunst attending his Pro day. They obviously think he is likely to be available around pick 29, but I'm curious as to what role they would have in mind for him. Off-man coverage out wide is what he has had the most experience and success with, yet many scouts believe he's a slot corner due to some physical limitations. Pairing two 5'10 corners on the outside would be a bit risky, and moving him into the slot or "star" position could be equally risky. It will be real interesting to see if the Packers think the rewards outweigh the risks and select Samuel. For the record, I'm a Newsome guy all the way, but perhaps the Packers think he will not be within their reach.

Defensive Line:

In the Fangio/Staley defense, in addition to the two EDGE players, they often utilize three defensive linemen at the same time. Does Clark, Lowry and Keke do it for you? Does Lancaster or Anthony Rush possibly take over at nose tackle, freeing up Clark to be more of a one-gap penetrator, another characteristic of the Fangio/Staley defense? Does any of this excite you? Yeah, didn't think so. With the poor quality of the DL group in this draft, one would think that if the Packers had any available cap space to spend, getting a veteran DL free agent would be their first move. OL would also be up there, but there's a much better chance of filling the right tackle spot through the draft.

Premier Position Pro Bowlers:

Why are the Packers in the playoff hunt every year? They have Pro Bowl players at the "premier" positions in the game of football. Anyone feel like giving their past and present GMs a little credit for this? Of course, premier positions get "PAID." This is the dilemma the Packers now find themselves in, but is it better than the alternatives? Hell yes. 

 

Damarious Randall:

The former Packers first round pick has signed with the Seahawks, who plan to move him from safety to cornerback, where he played for the Packers. You might remember after his unceremonious departure from the Packers how Randall blamed his poor play on the Packers playing him out of position. Let's hope he plays for Seattle as well as he did with Green Bay.

If You Haven't Seen This:

If you were the Packers' GM and had $5M to spend right now for a free agent, what position would you prioritize?

Offensive Line
8% (7 votes)
Defensive Line
80% (68 votes)
Cornerback
7% (6 votes)
Wide Receiver
2% (2 votes)
Other
2% (2 votes)
Total votes: 85

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__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

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Comments (178)

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HankScorpio's picture

April 14, 2021 at 06:19 am

The poll answer for me is DL all the way. It is the weakest spot in the draft and a place that historically speaking, takes longer to develop. A vet at that price won't change things substantially but it would be the best bang for the buck, IMO.

And the reason the Packers have premier players at the key spots is because they emphasive those sports heavily on days 1-2 of the draft in the last 15-20 years. You go back to 1990 to find a round 1 RB. 1994 was the last IOL. 2000 was the last TE. 2006 was the last LB. They have drafted 2 Safeties in round 1. They have dipped their toe in these spots in round 2-3 a bit more. By and large, they draft value positions early on.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:21 am

Since 2014 in the first 2 rounds......

The Packers have drafted 8 Def. backs (5 corners).

The Packers have drafted 1 receiver in that time (2nd round)

At the present time.... the corner and wide receiver position, contain one proven player each.

Where are we now?
It looks like we are back in the draft looking for more corners.

Pushing receiver need down the list.

Gutenkunst has been trying to replace Jordy Nelson since 2018

3 plus seasons.....how's that coming along?

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:23 am

When we're the 4th rated passing attack in the NFC behind Bucs, Falcon, and Cowboys another WR would be nice but not a necessity. MVS was drafted and contributing nicely.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:19 am

4th rated maybe by some measure, but in important categories, like TD passes and protecting the rock, we were #1. Over 70% completions. People got open, the QB was protected long enough to get them the ball, they usually caught it. One out of every 9 completions was a TD.

I think this was one of the top passing offenses of all time. Better than anything that Fouts or Manning or even Brady in 2007. Better than our 2011 passing offense.

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Turophile's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:43 am

+1 Hank

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Nate-1980's picture

April 15, 2021 at 06:56 pm

Has Gute really tried to replace Jordy ? I don’t think he’s tried at all..

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 06:52 am

I went corner.

Before i voted i thought corner and DL would be neck and neck.

I picked corner because we all saw what it cost us. Also because when you look at the depth at the corner position, it's "lacking".

I'm being kind to describe it like that.

When the team ignores the needs of the team. we start to go back with the problems (patterns) we developed with Thompson.

The pattern being.....instead of improvement.
We have more needs on a team, than we had the previous year.
That IS a problem. You are then... going the wrong way.

When i have previously stated...that it takes years for this team to address positional needs.
I said that only because....it's true. And i'll keep telling the truth no matter how many times you "kitty's" want to thumbs down my post.

The truth always wins.

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nostradanus's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:21 am

Haha good one, there will always be naysayers and down voters, it is just a fact of life and passionate fans (though it is much easier to be a pessimist than an optimist). But you are correct, the Packers draft philosophy is based on staying true to their draft board and filling in with UDFA and a few low level vets to plug holes mostly. That is just how they roll. Championship game 2 years in a row, it works.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:32 am

"Championship game 2 years in a row, it works." - nostradanus
(losing....works?)

" Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, in our business there is no 2nd place, either your first, or your last" - Vince Lombardi

www.youtube.com/watch?v=il2YyCTpIQI

2:25 -2:33

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TarynsEyes's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:46 am

"(though it is much easier to be a pessimist than an optimist)."

The easiest thing to do in sports is to be an optimist. How hard is it to say all is/will be good/great? The pessimist, by saying aloud that which is not good/great takes a harder road to remain, and be accepted as a true fan than the one who simply kowtows to the clique to be regarded as a real fan.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 06:05 pm

Who gives an 8th round pick for being accepted?

Some seem to prefer to be seen as smart. Neither really matter. I come here to see what others think ... some here do and one signal is that they manage both based on situation and a comprehensible rationale based upon observations that seem at least plausibly grounded, whether I agree or not.

My favorite contributors are those whom I disagree with but make me ponder whether I’m right or neither of us are.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:26 pm

"....but make me ponder whether I’m right or neither of us are."

So either you're right, or neither of you are?

What the fruck is that?...lmao

chill....it was funny

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 06:06 pm

Make me think: try it, we will be able to tell I assure you.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:40 pm

English

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 07:25 am

So either you're right, or neither of you are?

It was humor....because you don't pose the possibility that the other person could be right.

Do you get that?

Wow....smh

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Coldworld's picture

April 15, 2021 at 11:22 am

Yes, I got it. It was written tongue in cheek. Since you missed that and felt the need to help me out, I thought I’d give you a second shot.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 02:28 pm

Ok...we'll go with that then :)

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Nate-1980's picture

April 15, 2021 at 07:09 pm

I dunno sounded pretty pompous to me if the other person doesn’t have a chance to be right, but what do I know I’m just one of the dummies..:)

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 09:05 pm

Yea, idk...i just thought it was damn funny when i originally read it, still do.

But at the same time, i think your on to something.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:23 am

The truth always wins.

Sorry kitty's :(

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:54 am

meow

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geronamaker's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:27 am

Those who speak the pure truth are condemned for it, so rejoice!!! You too are a comment thread martyr!!!

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:25 am

“” The wise can see where they are going, and fools cannot.” But I also know that the same fate is waiting for us all. I thought to myself, “I will suffer the same fate as fools. So what have I gained from being so wise?””

Ecclesiastes

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Bear's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:20 pm

I don’t think going by your numbers of 8 DBs drafted is ignoring the problem.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:03 am

Why are the Packers in the playoff hunt every year? They have Pro Bowl players at the "premier" positions in the game of football. Anyone feel like giving their past and present GMs a little credit for this?

Yes, i'll give/gave credit (time and time again) to Ted Thompson for those 3 picks.

PFF
Apr 9
Packers: only team w/ 3 top-10 highest-graded offensive players in 2020:

1. Aaron Rodgers - 95.1
6. Davante Adams - 92.0
T-8th. David Bakhtiari - 91.8

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:30 am

Let’s see what happens when his successors’ picks have have had similar opportunities for the wisdom of hindsight.

I note with humor that 2 of those 3 were thought wasted picks a couple of years in. The other I will just compare to Jenkins.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:16 pm

Appreciate the feedback Cold.

You bring up valid points.

First, the Rodgers situation was unique in that a lot of those who didn't like him, was because they loved Favre. Rodgers did nothing wrong except call Favre "Grandpa" in the team cafeteria...lol. As much as i love Rodgers, he should have punched Rodgers.
That situation held a lot of dynamics and a lot of angst among Packer faithful, outside of Rodgers control. For as young as Rodgers was, i think he conducted himself well.

Personally, i was verbally voicing i wanted Favre traded even before the draft because a)
we would could still get trade value. b) i was tired of his annual retirement drama, and it was annual, since winning the SB.

Davante was another story. Some people wanted his head...bench him...get rid of him. Some were downright pissed because they thought Janis wasn't getting enough chances.
Some going so far as saying Rodgers hates Janis. McCarthy is out to ruin Janis career. Really stupid things

So i told these people this....i said we're not there, we just don't know. As much as we might not like McCarthy, it's his job, and at some point you have to trust him to do his job.
I said there must be potential in Adams game that they like and why they are sticking with him.

Well....Rodgers and McCarthy had it right, and Janis owns a tire/oil change shop back in his hometown. Janis Tire and Auto.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:20 pm

Cold...i should add that.....Ted making that move with Rodgers, at that time...was made with big big balls.

Favre owned Green Bay, He was God at the time.
If Ted was wrong on Rodgers, Teds head would have been out the door quicker than you can say "Gute drafted who?"
:)

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nostradanus's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:10 am

Thanks for the Brain Drain Al, even though it’s a bit lighter than usual in the off-season, “snicker “

Oh come oh come Samuel - I absolutely love this kid but he misses a lot of the Packers athletic RAS, me thinks a trade back may be in play.

Defensive Line - look for them to draft one in round 2-3 and sign a veteran DL after June 1st thus not affecting the compensatory pick they will get for Linsley(most likely a 4th)

D. Randall - the reason he can’t stick around anyplace is in his own headspace, he’s talented. You would think before the Packers drafted him they would have figured this out in the interview process? Then to compound the mistake by trading him for Kiser!?
I hope they evaluated Love better than Kiser, but I digress, that is for another rant!

Until next Brain Drain Al

Nostradanus

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:39 am

"Championship game 2 years in a row, it works." - nostradanus
(losing....works?)

" Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, in our business there is no 2nd place, either your first, or your last" - Vince Lombardi

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TarynsEyes's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:54 am

The Packers and a majority of its fanbase have accepted winning to mean not being a WINNER of the coveted goal. They can no longer accept that there is another level above participation. They have engulfed that entire point of view as the rule of achievement/success in sports.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:49 am

Well...the stated goal every year was to win the Super Bowl.

That has slowly transformed over the Ted years.

When the Packers missed the playoff for two years
Murphy would gloat that the Packers made the playoffs 8 years in a row,
as if that was some stated goal or great accomplishment citing the fact
you have one of the best QB's ever under center.
He would say how hard it is getting into the playoffs.

Then LeFleur was hired....by all accounts, Murphy gets that credit based on how he said all decisions ultimately fall on him....he was in charge.

LeFleur, Hackett, and Rodgers then begin to ignite a new offense. Missing a SB appearance 2 times by only one game.

So in steps for Gute to get us over the edge.
Drafting a QB to sit for a few years...drafting a rb we didn't need, to sit....drafting a tight end we didn't need...to sit. Then in the 4th round drafting.....oops...that pick was spent...nevermind.

Taryn....the Packer sheep herd can't understand how that 2020 draft didn't help this team win now....they are still confused apparently.

Sad really.

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wildbill's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:09 am

Love=Kizer 2.0

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:36 am

I disagree wildbill.

Although i remain steadfast the 2020 draft should have resulted in Gutes termination under "just cause" for ignoring team needs 1 game outside of a SB.

I'm a fair man...i hated the pick of Love, but not because i think he's a bust. Simply because i hated the whole draft of giving up (yes people...Gute gave up)...looking for the future.

Like i've repeated, it wasn't Loves fault the Packers wanted him in the 1st round. Not many players (ready for the NFL or not) are going to turn down 12 million guaranteed.

I fault Love in no way...
But...at the same time, Love deserves a chance, not unlike Rashan Gary. So lets judge them on their own merits when they get on the field. He may be a player, or he may be a bust....but that is still in his hands.

As much as we hated the pick, or the draft...it wasn't Love's fault.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:33 am

Twice as good? What’s the next winner at Belmont Park?

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:06 pm

Love=Kizer 2.0

That assessment is based on what exactly?

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:08 pm

Nostradanus, re Randall: I’ve known many young men in their early 20s that aren’t quite right, but are worth taking a shot with. Some times, it pays big dividends but other times it’s just a waste.

I watched the recordings of the Packers after the 2017 season. I saw Randall “slip” so he was unable to hit a runner heading upfield. I saw the same slip on several other plays. Draw your own conclusions, but I wouldn’t want him on my team.

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stockholder's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:07 am

There are 10 DL in the top 100. Why is it weak? Anyone of these guys can outplay what we have. ( Other then Clark). If I'm a DL I want to come to the packers. Cb-equals 1 and done. But Gutes guy will be in the top 50. Thats all what matters. Not his misses. Lets trade up to get him, so we can waste a pick. And not worry about a rookie returning punts.

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nostradanus's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:13 am

DL - because the Packers traditionally don't draft for immediate need and it usually takes a DL 2-3 years to figure it out.

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stockholder's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:23 am

It didn't take Donald that long. And it won't in this class. Push the Pile.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:56 am

Lol yea....

Block left, block right, get off a block and tackle da guy wit the ball.
Passer getting ready to pass the ball?...jump..and try to block?

This isn't learned overnight, or in college.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:33 am

If you use a truly unique individual as your guide, I don’t fancy your chances ... Al Davis’ late era folly.

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NoahSGutierrez's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:18 am

thanku

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Razer's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:39 am

Sorry Al, you over-thought the "why the Packers are in post season play so often". Aaron Rodgers is the reason this team is better than .500. Without Rodgers, I am afraid we would be chasing the Vikings. Yes some compliments such as a good O-line and a run game made the last years successful but then again, football is a team sport.

Fixing the defense has been a decade long series of half measures. We either don't value defense enough or don't evaluate the talent effectively. Still in question today are D-line, linebackers and yes CB. Apparently, this is a weak D-line class so we will have trouble replacing Lancaster, Lowry and everyone not named Clark. I am just hoping that we don't draft some project in the later rounds and call it fixed. Having to shore-up the defense via free agency is expensive and we are broke.

This will be Gutekunst's and Rodger's most important draft.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:50 am

I love it!!..........More voice of reason!!!
T Y Razer

I only disagree with one thing.

Gutes most important draft was last year, 2020....as far as how that draft will define his legacy and job status in the near future.

Rodgers will do what he always does, regardless of the draft. He will play the best he can.

The draft...... in no way, shape, or form, defines Aaron Rodgers, he has absolutely nothing to do with it. As he has been told in the past.

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Razer's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:22 am

I agree PF4L that last year's draft was critical and we didn't do the job that I wanted. I am more pointing to the idea of "what have you done for me lately". The next game, next season, next draft become the most important thing going forward. If we only have 2 years left with Rodgers then getting a good slot WR or OT are the most important in this upcoming draft. The same urgency applies to "fixing" the defense enough to make it a strength not a liability. To that end...this is the most important draft...

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:19 am

Well....my problem is this....I'm no longer in Gutes camp

1st.....it was how he handled Nelson, then signed Graham, who was barely any younger and his days of success was years behind him.

Then it was drafting Gary instead of a needed starter. That was in retrospective, was our first clue what was coming in 2020.

Then he spent way too much money on free agents, in a weeks time, overpaying big time the first year. Amos 14 million? Turner 11million? P. Smith 18 million?
Z'Smith was a bit over paid but at least he produced.

Anyway....the 2020 draft is where i lost all faith in Gute.
It's not just because he drafted Love.

It's because that draft had nothing to do with helping that current team get to a Super Bowl.
If anyone feels like it did...i sure a **** would like to hear how. I'm listening.

That draft was Gute giving up on the current team, and looking (planning) post Rodgers.
I will believe that until my last day.

BUT.....a funny thing happened after that draft...Rodgers posted the 2nd highest passer rating in NFL history. almost beating his 1st place ranking, and winning an MVP.

I'll contend that's when Packers, Murphy and Gute went into Oh S**t mode...looking at each other and saying.....now what?

I still believe Rodgers is out after next season.

Some writers and readers in here speak NOW of the need for Gute to draft impact players, starters......Where were those same people after last years draft....drinking kool aid?

It's a little late in Rodgers window, and the Packers future plans to start.... "drafting to win now"....isn't it?

Why didn't they draft to win now, a year ago?....because that wasn't the G D plan....that's why.

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TarynsEyes's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:10 am

So many refuse to understand that without Rodgers, this team would likely have been a mirror image of the '70-'80s version of the Packers. The FO has done an excellent job in maintaining a high relevance in the Division, and an overrated relevance in the league on the play of Rodgers, and his ability to entertain the media with his passive-aggressive words.

I wonder, and often, how many Pro Bowlers this team would actually have if it didn't have Rodgers? Who of these wouldn't achieve such staus without Rodgers? The mental aspect of the lesser QB than Rodgers would certainly change the play and relevence of each, which we bore witness to at times for short stints, but could they hold up under season-long QB play described as agony?

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:36 am

I agree that Rodgers is central to our O. Equally though, having Rodgers contract is a major reason why. Simplicity is beguiling but often deceiving.

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murf7777's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:37 am

"So many refuse to understand that without Rodgers, this team would likely have been a mirror image of the '70-'80s version of the Packers."

Without Rodgers the drafting over the past 15 years would've been different. Maybe they would've drafted or traded for Rothsberger, Wilson, Brees and more recently, Mahommes, etc....

Of course without Rodgers this team would've been different, but probably not like the 70-80's. Why? Because Bob Harlan told the BOD that he was going to put all football operations into the hand of a GM and the BOD would no longer be meddling into football operation decisions. It was Bob who hired Ron Wolf and the rest is history. You can state all the if and/or buts you want but it is meaningless.

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Archie's picture

April 14, 2021 at 01:56 pm

"....Of course without Rodgers this team would've been different, but probably not like the 70-80's. Why? Because Bob Harlan told the BOD that he was going to put all football operations into the hand of a GM and the BOD would no longer be meddling into football operation decisions. It was Bob who hired Ron Wolf and the rest is history. ..."

Ancient history now that MM has everyone reporting to him i.e., GM is no longer in full control of the football team. What we have now would have caused Wolf to say thanks but no thanks.

I used to think not having an owner was an advantage now I believe the opposite. Evidence: An engaged owner would have never left Thompson in control for so long. Mark Murphy did.

Right now GB is a very poor team i.e., a greater and greater pct of salary cap (80% currently) is invested in fewer and fewer players (8). How we pay for Jaire and Davante in 2022 and Gary, Savage and Jenkins in 2023 is unknown. We can't cut more low wage players, we are already at the bone. We may have to continue letting good players go in FA e.g., Linsley.
Just a matter of when the balloon will burst. Ultimately, that will push the Pack to let AR go sooner than we would all like. yet most seem to think Russ Ball has done a wonderful job. I don't count myself in that crowd.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:22 pm

(SIGH.....) When the executive committee hired Brian Gutekunst in 2018 they stripped Mark Murphy of most of his responsibilities in overseeing the front office. By 2019 the executive committee(Which they started using again. Looks like they dropped the BOD) stripped Murphy of the rest of his responsibilities over of the front office and assume the roll from him. We know this from the statement put out over Murphy's title announcing his "withdrawal" from overseeing the Front Office. Beyond those public statements we really don't anything else. Frankly, Mark Murphy losing a large part of job was, and still is a big story. Why it was not covered is an equally big story. As is Brian Gutekunst reporting directly to the executive committee. In the old days, the press, both local and state wide would have been all over this. Oh well...

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:40 am

Half measures( Smiths, Gary, Alexander, Savage , Amos, and Clark). They have made serious efforts , but still have some weaknesses.

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Razer's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:07 am

I agree PeteK that we have thrown the wallet at the defense in FA to fix what we have been unable or unwilling to fix via effective drafting. It made us better but it has crippled us financially. Free agent additions are great for that missing piece or veteran component but it is not a sustainable replacement for poor drafting strategies/execution.

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:05 am

The D has not had the low cost complementary players develop like the offense, ex: Tonyan, Lazard, Patrick, MVS , and Jones. Poor development of Adams,Lowry, Lancaster,Burks, and King plus the regression of Preston has hurt the D. Hopefully, Barnes and Martin could break that precedent.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:08 am

We are still trying to recover from the threadbare condition of the roster at the time Murphy stepped in. The FAs were an essential step to making any serious attempt to compete with Rodgers.

We’ve also been reshaping our team, and that has meant focus away from refilling pipelines, which takes time and picks to do and time to develop and keep replacing the chaff.

This year was a bad year for an unanticipated cut in the cap, really bad timing for the Packers given the above. The route through is a draft that finds some early first year positive contributors that improve the team. Ironically, that’s the opposite of restocking and reshaping ( last year).

It’s also a very strong reason to view early prospects slightly differently than we have been used to (why I’m personally hoping we don’t take the likes of Barmore (whom I see as otherwise a good pick for future years).

Fortunately, this draft is loaded with potential at WR and DB later and also with candidates to return or add wrinkles at as option and slot types later.

Play this right and with a little luck, we can improve the team in September and add developmental potential and ST aptitude. To do that we need to take ready players at positions if need over those with the highest ceilings and then go for high upside or specific role matches later.

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LambeauPlain's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:04 am

Maybe Jackson will new life in Barry's D.

I understand his coverage concept is to play his best CB in man and then zone for the other DBs. Jackson had 8 picks and 26 passes defended during his last year at Iowa playing mostly zone.

What a gift if Jackson finally makes the grade.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:38 am

Can’t argue that it would be, but can’t help thinking it’s either horrible coaching mishandling or an inability to master the NFL.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:28 am

I think when someone has to go back 4 years to point out how good a draft pick used to be in college, that in itself may decide whether it's coaching or he's just a 2nd round bust

I think we know the truth.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 01:04 pm

Not to be a total smart ass but are the Packers hoping Josh Jackson makes that.....
"4th year leap"?
:)

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 01:03 pm

Oh smile for once thumbs down.

How about if i took you out for ice cream, would you like that?

I bet it would cheer you right up.

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Guam's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:17 am

The discussion surrounding the Packers needs at DL is really frustrating. Last year the DL draft class was not strong so the Packers passed on Blacklock or Davis to draft a QB who never played a down. This year the DL draft class is weak so the Packers will once again pass on Barmore or Onwuzurike to draft another position.

Two years ago the Packers got obliterated in the NFCCG by SF and their strong defensive front seven. Last year the Packers (with the #1 offense) were beaten in the NFCCG by TB and their strong defensive front six.

Defense is still an important component of winning a championship and the Packer front seven will not be of championship caliber unless they invest in it and soon. How much longer can the Packers wait?

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Razer's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:08 am

Thank you Guam for painting the picture. It is a combination of more emphasis and better drafting. If it is just not valuing the D-line and linebacker positions then that should be easy to fix. I worry that we don't have the scouting expertise to recognize solid defensive players. With all the wasted picks on defense, I am beginning to wonder.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:16 pm

I agree on your assessment of need and of both draft classes. The Missing salient fact is we also had a DC who didn’t use the type of player we want even when what we had available seemed better.

We now don’t have that DC. Does the new one see it differently? If so ( I fervently hope for that), this draft offers little fit this year. Barmore may do in future but struggled against good double teams in college. As Pauline puts it “ Flashes power in his game yet must improve his overall playing strength. Often handled by a single blocker if he does not get the first step on opponents. Struggles facing off against larger, mauling blockers.” He isn’t changing things this year to a first round extent.

Searching for a DL to help stuff the run and disrupt in a draft class with lighter disruptive types we have tried and failed with just asks for it though.

This draft has real early and potentially ready talent at OT and CB. Don’t reach or fight the draft. Lady Luck can be a harsh mistress if you elect to take her on. Go later, get good run players. It’s not going to get us to Shangri-La, but it could make us a lot better this year.

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geronamaker's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:05 am

Drafting at the bottom of the round for three decades running (except the final two McCarthy years and maybe one more year sometime where we picked in the middle of rounds) is tough to plug holes with drafted excellence. Look around. The only teams who managed to stay at the highest levels of the league year after year (and crucially also making multiple SB in different decades along the way) since the 90s are the Packers and Steelers. Since the 00s you can add the Patriots, Ravens and Seahawks to the list.

The Pats of course are a league of their own!

Rarefied air indeed. Gutekunst picked Alexander who is the best CB we've drafted by a magnitude of 10 since Woodson's prime years, who of course was a FA signing. I give much credit to the Pack for developing UFA CBs Williams and Shields into top shelf players. Gary appears to be rounding into form as the best edge rusher drafted since CMIII. Jenkins is a revelation at OL with his ability to excel everywhere across the line. I think he may be unprecedented.

And this is after what, three drafts? Barely enough time to judge the results of his first crop. The one area where Thompson and Wolf seemed to be otherworldly was finding great WR after the first round. And let's not leave Tonyan out of the plus column either.

The Packers have been an almost entirely successful playoff team for nearly 30 years. The lack of more than 2 SB wins during this time is frustrating for all fans but in context this is an elitist conception of "frustration" and for me at least beats the hell out of gambling away the future for one SB win followed by a decade or more of bottom fishing, which is the plane upon which all NFL teams exist except for us and the four teams mentioned above. And for each of the dice rolling teams who succeeded in winning their one lonely SB before fading away there are another ten who both gambled away the future and failed to hoist a Lombardi.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:11 am

"Gary appears to be rounding into form as the best edge rusher drafted since CMIII."

Seriously?

How about he becomes a full time starter first?

Clay Mathews?

Mathews has 384 solo tackles, 92 sacks, 17 forced fumbles, 6 interceptions, 43 passes defended, 160 stfyds

Gary has 32 solo tackles, 7 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, 0 interceptions, 1 pass defended, 1 stuffed yard.

Call me crazy, but i'm not mentioning those two in the same sentence...probably ever.

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geronamaker's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:05 am

He was drafted two seasons ago and barely played his first year and part time year 2. But he was obviously a different player the second half of last year and from there you can extrapolate that he is coming into his own. Along with improved position play from Amos and Savage our defense improved during the last half of the year.

Of course Gary's stats can't be compared to CMIII at this stage. That wasn't my point at all.

Context. Get some. LOL

Which edge rusher has been drafted since CMIII who performed better than Gary? This is the statement I actually made while you responded with a good point that doesn't truly address my comment. I believe that's known as a "non-sequitor."

Nick Perry is the only worthy comparison for Gary within the context of my assertion, but the proof of Gary being the better pick is still in the future, where Perry is done and gone. After 7-8 years and two contracts he couldn't stay on the field much due to injury and was released. Where is he playing today by the way? He's only 30-31 and out of the league. Maybe he retired I don't recall. But that's the point. Perry's career wasn't that memorable.

We shall see about Gary but at this stage he is trending towards being a solid draft pick. He may also prove non-memorable in time. Generally speaking, it is way too soon to judge Gutekunst draft selections.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:41 pm

Nick Perry is currently retired, living off the winning lottery ticket that the Packers gave him for having one season of 11 sacks.

Was Perrys bloated contract Rodgers fault?
Or the Packers, in one of many foolish contracts given?
****************
Lets do this tiger....

When Gary isn't trending, or rounding out to be.....
When he actually is, a solid pick equivalent to his draft position.
Then lets talk about it then, when it's proven on the field.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:45 pm

"Generally speaking, it is way too soon to judge Gutekunst draft selections."

Well.....let me ask...
Is it too soon to talk about his objectives in the 2020 draft?

Because.....if you want to convince me that his 2020 draft picks were to help the 2020 team win....
again....i'm all ears.

The floor is yours.

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 07:02 am

He should be a solid pick. He was selected 12th in the first round.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:18 am

"The Packers have been an almost entirely successful playoff team for nearly 30 years." - geronamaker

Gee....What common denominator do those nearly 30 years share?

Hint:....it isn't the same President, it isn't the same GM, it isn't the same coach.

It's something no other team in the history of the NFL can say.

It's also the reason you can't compare the Packers nearly 30 years, to other teams in the league....because it isn't equal.

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geronamaker's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:58 am

Oh I understand perfectly well where you are coming from. The Steelers also won consistently with different coaches and QB too during this 30 year time period. The Ravens are close with Lamar maybe maybe not.

The Seahawks are still dependent on Wilson and their run is closer to 10-12 years only.

It will be most interesting to see if Belichek can rebuild Patriot greatness into a third decade with a different QB.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:21 pm

Wrong.....try again if you'd like

What common denominator do those nearly 30 years share?

Look at the hints again.

Ya know what...forget i'll just tell you...lol

2 HOF starting QB's, almost 3 decades.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:25 pm

The thumbs down guy thinks we had 3 HOF QB's...i guess

But then again, sometimes he misses the short bus and stays home from school.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:16 pm

"The Packers have been an almost entirely successful playoff team for nearly 30 years." - geronamaker

If playoff success is defined the way, that i think it is...we have very different definitions of success.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 03:18 pm

Fo you thum down folk.....

Successful playoff team ...meaning they went to the playoffs alot. Which is fantastic

Successful playoff team...they way i interpret it. Winning in the playoffs
We've done that twice, in 30 years.

Nobody gets a trophy for losing in the playoffs
You either win the Halas trophy, the Lamar Hunt trophy For Championship games, or the Lombardi Trophy for the Super Bowl.

If you lose in the wildcard round, the divisional round, you get nothing but a ride home.

If you lose in the Championship round, the only thing you won is a bunch of t-shirts and hats containing a lie.

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:45 am

There are no more free agent DL that can make a difference, so draft Tufele.

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splitpea1's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:18 am

I like Tufele, too. I've noticed in the past that you also like Shelvin, but we're not sure if Gute even values this type of player. If we did by some miracle select him, you know he would have to be accompanied by a personal trainer at all times, especially when approaching the buffet table.

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:50 am

Add McNeil to that list. I missed Tufele bc I was concentrating on heavier NG types , but after reading Jersey Al's preview and viewing film of him, I'm sold. I was very impressed with his ability to shed blks which is what we lack from our DL. I would move up slightly into the 2nd round for him. I like Shelvin mainly bc he will be available in the latter rounds, and will do a better job of clogging up the middle than anyone besides Clark. Also, am I missing on an available DL free agent that we could sign?

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splitpea1's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:21 pm

There are a few FAs left, but they're either old or have an injury history. We might have to wait for releases if we don't draft one with the first three or four picks.

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frankthefork's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:49 am

I sense frustration in the fanbase. Waiting for the draft sucks as bad as covid 19 and not watching football in the stands. All this troll can say is...It better be at least 6 picks on defense if GB hopes to stop TB this year. Our offense again will win the NFC North, but to take the NFCC and the SB, it's the guys up front who set the tone and win the game....Yeah, it's the defense.
The more one picks the more one hits...GPG.

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dobber's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:58 am

These are the deepest doldrums of the off-season...

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:52 am

What people aren't realizing is that when Gute made the decision to sign Lowry to a 3 year 20 million dollar deal and drafting Keke is that...

That basically meant he didn't think the DL was a weak position.

Just a year or two after....Packer fans feel that DL is our greatest need.

Gute obviously didn't think we had a problem at corner either, otherwise he would have addressed that in the draft. But we were in dire need of a QB, a rb, and a tight end apparently.
So that had to be prioritized.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:52 am

Nobody said the truth was pretty, thumbsdown.

Maybe it would be less painful if you didn't read my comments. My comments need not be agreed upon by everyone.

But maybe.... save my comments for people who are "capable" of thought, opinion and discussion.

IN GUTE WE TRUST!!

How's that....feel better?

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:16 am

Gute isn’t perfect, no GM is, but endlessly repeating the same blinkered mantra won’t make it any more accurate or, more importantly, helpful. Things are a bit more complex, uncomfortable, but also a major reason why this is interesting.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:46 am

I fail to see how a GM purposely, not looking to improve his current near SB team with Rodgers, drafting instead for years down the road is in any way.....interesting.

I call it...giving up on the current team and fans...plain and simple.

If somebody walked up and called it "interesting" to me. I would assume, either they aren't really a Packer fan, or they are looking to get punched in the mouth for ignorance..

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:19 pm

I know there are things that you fail to see. There are also many things that none here know. Such certainty ought perhaps to be tempered as a result.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:30 pm

Well...when i'm wrong about something or fail to see something, help me out and point it out to me.

Because i don't get a lot of that....i have no idea why.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:51 pm

Coldworld....

If you want to convince me Gutes 2020 draft was for the benefit of the 2020 team...i'm all ears baby!!

You have the floor.

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:32 am

Your Gute opinion is well founded, but it's your unwavering and condescending manner after the fact that annoys some. We made it to the championship game and can only surmise that a different draft would have made a difference. Fact: if Gute was as bad as you claim this team would not have been in two championships in a row and be in very good position to compete again.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:06 pm

I'll contend that if a GM of my favorite team doesn't have the current teams best interest in mind, that ANNOYS the F out of me.

If i annoy some kool aid drinkers on the sideline...so be it.
It's an opinion board...it's collateral damage...suck it up.

We are in the NFC North.....We played the last 2 seasons against largely weak schedules (look it up)...but most importantly...We have a HOF QB under center.

I'm not surprised we made it to two Championship games, i'm also not surprised they lost two Championship games.

You have Aaron Rodgers, you have a handful of Pro Bowlers. What we didn't have, is enough strength to win those games.

Whose job is that? Who examines our right cornerback position, and determines, he's good enough to win a Championship with? Who drafts players to help a team win a NFCCG?

Were a bit different Pete....i don't call getting to two NFCCG's and losing both of them, some sort of accomplishment.
Where's my T-shirt?

Apologies if that annoys you.

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 07:12 am

I guess I like kool aid!

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blondy45's picture

April 14, 2021 at 01:32 pm

Good points Pete. The NFL drafts do help teams sooner who have more holes that must be filled. Those players get to start sooner due to team needs for the present. In a team like our Packers, a team that wins consistently and drafts later, the draft is more geared for the future. Some readers know this. Some (PF4L) feel they know it all and can not see into the future. "Some" need to quit focusing on the now, and look at the future for the NFL draft as hope and continued progress towards more winning fun seasons. I am a Packer Fan for Life, and I look forward to the future "as well" as the present.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 04:20 pm

"The NFL drafts do help teams sooner who have more holes that must be filled." Blondy

Listen Pumkin....

The NFL draft does help teams fill needs (holes). But there is ONLY one catch, you HAVE to draft for those positions. That's how it works cupcake.

If you have needs at corner, DL, ilb, receiver...
Then drafting a back up QB, a rb, and a tight end, might not achieve that stated goal of filling needs.

OOPS, i misread...., according to blondy....we don't draft to help our team now, we draft to help our team in years to come. We don't worry about....now.
No sir ree bob....the future!!

""Some" need to quit focusing on the now, and look at the future for the NFL draft as hope and continued progress towards more winning fun seasons." - blondy

Good plan...how did that work out sweet cheeks?

It's all about the future. We can fill those pesky football needs (holes) some other time right cookie? We got lotsa time.

I'm taking notes here......
blondy says: "draft for the future for more FUN seasons"...YAY!!
Duly noted :)

Now, on to more important things.....what about that sammich?

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:20 pm

As to your poll, at this point I would wait till after the draft to sign, when we know what we got and if anybody shakes free from other teams. I voted “other” for that reason.

I think Rush has upside. I’d like to see him involved on the DL, but we need a core runstuffing infusion. Sadly I don’t see a suitable player falling early that can do both this year (Barmore will need to get stronger). So I’d go with just run capable later. No light, penetrative types please. So many of those this year.

My gut reaction on the second Samuel meeting is that there is exactly the debate you postulate or some aspect that they wanted to learn more about, to rule him in or out at 29, perhaps to do with non athletic questions.

My hope is that we eschew long term upside somewhat in the first two days and add players that can help now. Sadly I don’t see a dual threat DL this year and I don’t see a worthy receiver getting close.

Go with marginal upside for this season. That would be ideal if it leads to a CB, but could be an OT or DB/ILB type, at least there are plausible 2021 upgrades that will probably be around when we pick in those positions. There are a lot of good WR and other prospects later in the draft to develop as well as slot/option and return types.

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Guam's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:16 am

CW: What little I have been able to find about the Fangio defense indicates it favors the lighter, penetrating defensive linemen who "play the run on the way to the quarterback". Like it or not, our new DC is from that coaching tree.

If the above is true, Lowery and Lancaster are poor fits for the new defense. And the plethora of lighter, quicker DLs this year would fit right in with the new scheme (as will Gary in a DL spot). I would not be surprised to see the Packers draft in that direction, particularly since a number of those smaller DLs seem to be graded second round or later.

Time will tell, but that scenario certainly seems possible.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:22 am

Sadly, I fear the same, though the hope is that that is because of the elite available, not that it is the essence of the scheme. I personally don’t think our roster can support that type of DL, and that it’s several off seasons away even if that was the goal without cap galore. Pettine showed us that in great clarity. I’m hoping Barry realizes this.

Hope is a fickle friend. The coaching should, in my view, be a much bigger topic of concern generally.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:41 pm

Coldworld, I’m going to say that our current defensive line is good enough for us to win every game that the offense scores 30 and doesn’t have multiple turnovers. Last year, we had 13 games with one or fewer turnovers, and we were 12-1. We were also 12-1 when we scored 30. When we had two or more turnovers, we only won once (Jacksonville).

I would also submit that if we added one good DL alongside Clark...that’s a pretty good start on a defensive line.

And it does seem as though the Packers might be looking for a three down DL as opposed to a massive run plugger. IMO, that’s going to put Barmore on the short list at #29.

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Guam's picture

April 14, 2021 at 01:35 pm

I wouldn't mind either Barmore or Onwuzurike with the first pick (maybe trade back for O.). Both look more like the Fangio style D-lineman than either Lancaster or Lowery. This draft should be informative as to the style of defense Barry wants to play.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:09 pm

Better get a guy like Akiem Hicks, but zero chance of a trade with the Boo boo Bears.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:39 pm

Leatherhead, I respect your position. I do not think we are too far apart.

As you may know, I’ve believed for some time that our DL suffered from personnel usage as much as the roster. Our D can be improved from last year by, in part, remedying that. With the turnover, that does mean we need new blood. I’m just hoping that that new blood will be able to take on NFL blockers this year not in 2023 and that we see more of that type in the snap counts. The light approach hadn’t worked as a numerically dominant character of our D line. A Change would benefit Clark and everyone behind him in my view.

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Guam's picture

April 14, 2021 at 01:32 pm

There is no question the coaching was/is an issue as the DC and ST coordinator both were replaced and MLF has a few things to learn about in game adjustments and communication.

That said I watched last year as Gute remade the offense in the image wanted by MLF (Dillon, Deguara, etc.). This draft may be indicative of the kind of defense Barry and MLF want to run. If it truly is a move to a Fangio style D-line, that is not going to happen in one draft but we will likely see at least one if not more smaller, penetrating DLs drafted.

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:12 pm

Players, not Plays.

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Archie's picture

April 14, 2021 at 02:17 pm

I'm surprised there isn't more speculation about the Pack drafting Jamin Davis at 29. Definitely solid value. Definitely three down player. Can blitz, can cover and can go sideline to sideline. If CB/OT isn't there at 29, this guy would be worthy. Then we can all stop complaining about that Pack refuses to invest top resources in ILB.

Barmore and a later round DT that can plug the run up the middle for 1st down and some 2nd downs would work for me as well. Maybe Gute will trade 29 down into early R2 and then trade late R2 into middle R2 and/or late R3 into early/mid R3.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 06:18 pm

If I’m picking for next year and beyond, Barmore has genuine upside. I just doubt he will help against the run this year.

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HarryHodag's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:57 am

I see many of you have become fully "Kiperized" about the NFL draft.
(Definition: named after the first big time draft guru, it means the hype surrounding the draft has clouded the judgement of fans.)

The draft is just one tool teams use to build a team. How many teams have high draft picks(Lions are a good example) who simply don't do squat? The 'hit and miss' ratio on first round picks is around 50 percent. Most teams rely on players not at the top of the draft, free agency of all types and plain old luck to get players.

Look at the Packers offensive line from last year. David B. was a fourth-round pick, Jenkins second round, Linsley fifth-round pick, Patrick UDFA, Turner round 3. That offensive line was considered one of the best in football. You have a second round pick, a third, a fourth, a fifth and a UDFA.

Don't let the deep pile of blurry analysis and speculation take away from the reality that Kiper, et.al, are selling a product, a product where there is no negative blowback if they are wrong. It's all just hype.

Only the folks inside the pro drafting rooms know what's going on and even there, a majority of teams don't do well.

Never forget the likely greatest QB of all time, Tom Brady, was a sixth-round choice. Bart Starr was 17th.
My point: take what the experts tell you with a grain of salt and don't make judgements based on hype. The truth of a draft pick often doesn't emerge until much later.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 04:34 pm

Good post Hodag.

Some voice of reason in the midst of the silly season.

i want this guy,, i want that guy..did you see that cats vertical?...that's nothing, player Y bench pressed 34 times!!...etc.

Do we even know yet what style defense Perry is going to implement?

As Bill Micheals said before he got fired......

"Give me a football team full of football players, and i'll beat your football team full of athletes, every week."

One of the few things we agreed on.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:55 am

I think it’s unlikely we’ll draft a small CB. I actually think that as much as we like to play three safeties it would make sense to draft one. Plus, you want to get a guy who can tackle and cover and is smart and those guys play safety. We’ve all seen that the defense is better when Greene plays.....why not draft his replacement?

I would expect us to take a DL on Day Two of the draft. I see 4 DL: Clark, who is real good. Lowry and Lancaster, smart, durable rotation guys. Keke is the bottom and isn’t taking snaps away from anyone. A real stud would line up with Clark for four more years...you can build a defense around that.

I still think we need a plug and play RT. Nothing will derail the season like getting Rodgers hit, or not making holes in the running game. We’ve lost a lot of guys in the past 9 months.

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dobber's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:49 am

I think, in the longer term, they've got 2 CB slots to fill: outside CB and slot CB. If they decide to start walking Savage up as a slot CB, they need a S. I think they'll attack one of those early in this draft and the other in the 2022 draft.

Would love to see a DT early...

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:07 am

Regardless of who we have in the secondary, or how awesome the pass rush is, any decent QB is going to go 20-35 for 200+ yards. That’s just the nature of the game. They’re going to complete around 60% and they’re going to average better than 6 yards/attempt. The difference between 6 and 10 will be our tackling.

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:56 am

and pressure to make an errant throw on 3rd down.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:19 pm

Even with pressure, good QBs are going to complete the majority of the passes.

Last year, for example, Kamara caught a short pass that turned into a long gain because nobody got him on the ground.

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 07:22 am

I agree dobber. They definitely need a corner and the right safety would be great as well. The right safety can be used as a backup or start with Savage moving up as the slot corner.

The front office has to follow their board when selecting picks and I am hoping that they will take the BPA at one of their 'Hot Spots' of need....CB, Safety, DL, OT and possibly ILB and WR.

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:59 am

Yes, and Wagner will come much cheaper than last season.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:23 am

I sure know how to wake up PF4L, don't I? Has to tell us all what the "Truth" is. Of course, it's the "truth" as PF4L has selectively fashioned it , but never mind that. lol.

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dobber's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:47 am

Truth is inseparable from perspective.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:10 am

He’ll be smarter when he gets older, just like the rest of us.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 04:47 am

I'm not the brightest candle in the room my friend.

I'll give that recognition to Since'61.

So i guess i'll have to settle for runner up.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:31 am

As Voltaire supposedly said, “[c]herish those who seek the truth but beware of those who claim to have found it.”

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:20 pm

Just like Jake and Elwood, PF Flyer is on a mission from god.

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Coldworld's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:42 pm

But without the sound track.

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 14, 2021 at 01:02 pm

Certainly does seem to have a severe case of "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 04:48 pm

You da man Al!

Now that's the spirit guys:)
Keep it general, in somewhat witty one liners.

But here's another idea, when i'm wrong, misguided, foolish, young and naive.
Save me!

Look..i don't want to make anyone feel bad, so in a gesture of good sportsmanship, i'm giving thumbs up...TO EVERYONE here.

Sweet...right?

Do me a favor, enlighten me, show me the error of my comments, my thinking. If i have facts wrong, please feel free to correct me, it will benefit me.
Challenge me.

Don't be afraid

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 04:55 pm

Here's a good start for me to learn........

Will everyone/anyone of you provide me with the knowledge how the 2020 draft benefited the 2020 team.

I've asked before but didn't get much feedback. But the gang is all here now...lets do this!

Anyone wanna take a shot?

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:46 pm

"Will everyone/anyone of you provide me with the knowledge how the 2020 draft benefited the 2020 team."

You're missing the point as to why all the thumbs down. Not sure why that bothers you, to be honest. It's not that people disagree with you that the 2020 draft didn't bring immediate help to the 2020 team. Most people agree with that. It's that you KEEP BRINGING IT UP. What's the point? That draft is over. Complaining about it ad nauseum a year later isn't going to change anything. It's like people still bringing up the King/Watt draft from four years ago.

Move on. Believe me, you'll feel better.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:55 pm

I looked at my post above, i didn't mention anything about thumbs down...did i?

I'm done with the thumbs down thing...i reached my goal of 1,000 by draft day. Easy peasy.

Ok, so you agree Gute gave up on this current team in last years draft? Is that valid?

It would be nice if someone besides me, admitted the truth.

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:15 pm

Sure...Gute gave up on this current team in last year's draft. How's that? Make you feel better? Will you sleep better tonight?

Does it actually matter if anyone agrees with you? It's an opinion, nothing more. Does it change the current roster? What is it that you're actually going for here? You think the Packers FO is paying attention to your posts and it'll affect their draft strategy going forward? Enlighten us with your amazing ability to see Truth that only you are able to see. Is it a gift or burden?

But you just keep being you. Keep posting the same sh*t over and over.

There is a sliver lining for you though. In a couple of weeks there will be a brand new draft that you can post negative comments about for the next year non stop. Yippee!

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 04:18 am

Yes...it does make me feel better, and let me tell you why. Because it's the truth that few will admit.

It's been asked and asked, to simply make a point.

They don't want to admit, that the GM purposely didn't try to help the team win now.

They don't want to admit he gave up on the team, and it's fans.

When you have a team with a HOF QB, some Pro Bowlers, close to getting to the SB, a closing SB window, and in the draft you chose not to help the current team.....

Yes, to some of us that is a problem. Personally, i think that's just cause for termination.

To other fans that don't want to admit his wrong, because they act like it didn't happen.
Instead they try to support him.

But that is hard to do when some fan is calling Gute out and his followers can't defend him...so instead they get upset you "keep bringing it up"

They aren't upset i bring it up. They are upset because it's the truth and they are trying to forget and refuse to admit it.

There are 10 year old Packer fans who know Gute ignored the 2020 team in the draft. Just like every human being who follow the Packers.

Besides having a GM that gave up on Rodgers, the team, it's fans.
What i find troubling is adult Packer fans want to pretend it didn't happen and hide their head in the sand.

I think more Packer fans should be upset. With some help, we might have had a good shot at getting into the SB.

The problem is, some aren't upset because they may not share the same degree of passion as a fan for the Packers.

The SB window is closing.....but as far as Gute's mindset in the 2020 draft....he closed the SB window. He offered no help. Didn't even try.

To this Packer fan, that's inexcusable.

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 15, 2021 at 09:02 am

You really need to get a life. Find a hobby. Get laid. Something.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 02:41 pm

Good response...who helped you with that?...the neighbor kid?

General: These are the type of fans who think that success is making it to the playoffs, or just making it to a Championship game

YAY!!!

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13TimeChamps's picture

April 15, 2021 at 03:25 pm

No, we're the type of fans who actually have a life and have the ability to put a damn football game in it's proper perspective.

Actually my idea of success was watching my kids become successful and responsible adults in their own right. It's a shame your parents weren't able to do that for you.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 08:59 pm

Well....that is just hurtful

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 07:27 am

I like both of your posts 13. Well said!

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PF4L's picture

April 16, 2021 at 09:13 am

Exactly Hawk...good call

Because 13 has direct knowledge of my level of responsibility and success, while he types that on his keyboard possibly wiping cheeto dust off his chest?

It's not uncommon for people to change the narrative to personal attacks, making things up out of thin air and trying to portray their fiction as fact.

Children often do the same.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:03 pm

Frankly, you bore the shit out of me. Same thing over, and over, and over, and over... I'm also beginning to think you're really someone I've bounced from here before. Someone who wouldn't stop telling us how great Tim Boyle was? Do I have this right?

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 04:34 am

Well Al.....is that what you think?
Easy to figure out....are the typing and mannerism's similar?
I've posted on 1 Packer website for 9 seasons, sans a 5 minute guest appearance here some time ago.
But go by your gut feeling

Yea Al..
Tim Boyle was great, undrafted with 4 NFL passes. Sounds just like me Al.

Maybe i should be bounced because you "think" you've bounced me before.

Or because i upset you too much.

Here is something, i bore you? My comments and opinions upset you...?
Try this....DON'T READ THEM.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 15, 2021 at 10:30 am

Unfortunately, it's my job to read the comments. Ignoring them is hard to do when you're spamming the comments section, Dash. As others here have told you, you've expressed your same "truth" incessantly. Pretty sure everyone knows what you believe. Time to move on.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 02:30 pm

Well....you do what you have to do....Boss

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 07:28 am

Well said Al.

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RCPackerFan's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:51 am

Play it Again Sam-uel?
Doing their due diligence. I'm honestly not as worried about pairing a couple of 5'10" corners together. Jaire can take on any WR regardless of height. King struggles with shorter speedier WR's. Samuel might be an upgrade there. The other thing is they could be looking to use him at the Star position. Which right now would likely be an upgrade over Sulivan.

Defensive Line:
Packers need help on the DL. I think Keke takes a big step this year. I would not be surprised if they went DL with a couple of picks this year. Barmore could be their first pick. I would not be surprised if they draft a more pure NT at some point as well.

Premier Position Pro Bowlers:
They put a premium on drafting OL, DL, CB. Almost every year they are drafting at those positions. I expect them to put a premium on those positions in this draft. But adding to that, I think they have to find another RB, WR, and possibly a LB/S hybrid. They need to add more speed, especially at LB and WR.
One thing they really need is a guy who can be a dynamic type of return man.

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Bearmeat's picture

April 14, 2021 at 03:15 pm

They're counting on Keke to make a jump. Lowry is probably fine in Lancaster's position (and at his pay). But as a #2? ICK.

They need help at DL. Biggest head scratcher of the offseason isn't Kign, it's not Barry. It's the DL schlock that they continue to not address.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:48 pm

Two years running now. The Packers either don't like or think the draft was weak at that position. Only Gute knows for sure.

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Since'61's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:02 am

I don't know their names or in which order but our first 3 picks should be the BPA for CB, WR and a DL. Why? Because those are the 3 positions where we need players who can make plays. We need a WR who can be a legit NFL #2 WR at least and possibly evolve into a #1 WR if we lose Adams to FA after this season. We need a CB who can play effectively opposite Alexander and hopefully step into a starting role by mid-season. If Barry is going to play 3 DLs we need a DL who can be more effective that either Lowry or Lancaster to play alongside Clark and Keke.

Our first 3 picks are within the top 100 players and this tells me that within the top 100 players there must be a WR better than MVS, a CB better than King and a DL better than Lowry/Lancaster. Find those guys and we will improve our chances of reaching the SB in 2021 and/or 2022. Otherwise what is the point of "keeping the band" together (as we've done so far in the offseason) if we're not going to provide them with the required reinforcements. However if the plan is to trade Rodgers and let Adams go to FA after this season, then I guess we are remaining on the building for the future train. Gute's early picks will tell us which direction the Packers are heading, I think but you never know with Gute.

Follow those first 3 picks with OL, ILB, an RB and possibly a 3rd string QB.

Wake me when it's over. Thanks, Since '61

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Guam's picture

April 14, 2021 at 10:19 am

I would swap OT for WR in your draft preferences. The Packers have added Funchess to the WR group already, but have had no additions and at least one subtraction from the OL. I think the need is greater at OT.

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Since'61's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:33 pm

Guam I wouldn't have a problem swapping WR with OT. I included WR among the top 3 because we do not have any WRs signed for 2021. Funchess is basically 2 years removed from NFL play and I don't know how effective he will be. It's a reasonable possibility that he won't make the team, although I believe that he will.

In any case Funchess is only signed for 2021 and he will go to the highest bidder if he has a decent season in 2021. We can't leave ourselves with only MVS and/or Lazard going into 2022.

Additionally a good pick at WR can make a bigger impact for the offense than an OL. We have depth on our OL and we can bring back a Veldheer or another OL if necessary. Having said that we can never have enough big bodies on the OL so if we take an OL early, I'm fine with it. We can't afford to ignore WR even if we wait until the 4th roound or later. I just hope that Gute doesn't trade our mid-round picks away to move up a few spots in the first round. We'll see. Thanks, Since '61

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 07:36 am

Agreed 61. Good points to both of you.

I really hope Gute doesn't move up to #21, as I have read a few different times, and give up a 3rd rounder or 2 4th rounders. If anything, I would like to see him move back a bit and get an extra somewhat early pick in addition to what we have already.

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Leatherhead's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:30 am

I agree. We are well provisioned at WR for 2021 and our 2022 team could look a lot different. A guy who can open holes in the run game, and give the QB time to do his job, will help this offense much more than some rookie WR who gets a couple of targets a game.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:58 pm

I'm hoping Gute can find a way to keep the window open for another year. 2023 will be tough, but at least we know he pushed the Cap out as far as he could. (sigh)

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jannes bjornson's picture

April 14, 2021 at 02:04 pm

Now, they feel "confident' with King onboard, so they will focus on securing the left flank and get a guy who can play OT. If people feel secure with Turner and _______at the Tackle spots, replay the CH Game.

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Starrbrite's picture

April 14, 2021 at 11:38 pm

I generally like/agree with your comments ‘61, but this seems sorta condescending; as if we’re boring you; “wake me up when it’s over.” Yet, you write the Gettysburg address to tell us what you would/wouldn’t do. Which is it—are you interested in the Packers draft or not?

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Since'61's picture

April 15, 2021 at 06:23 pm

Starrbrite no condescention intended on my part. If you've read my posts concerning the draft you know that I do not follow college football and I don't know anything about the upcoming draftees or who could be good picks for the PACKERS.

No one here at CHTV is boring me but the idea of spending parts of 3 days watching teams make their draft selections sounds to me like the height of nothing to do. Having said that I have posted that I respect draftniks and the amount of time that they spend reviewing numerous if not hundreds of college players who the packers will be choosing from. If they choose to watch the draft I wish them the best and I hope they enjoy it. It's not my thing.

However, I am interested in the Packers draft and I will review the Packers player selections after they have been made by utilizing the CHTV draft guide which is the only source I use for the annual NFL Draft. I don't watch or listen to any of the alleged pundits because they are only in it for the ratings and more often than not they try to achieve their ratings by being the "loudest voice."

I appreciate your comparing me to Lincoln and the Gettysburg address. The Gettysburg address is only 272 words long and took Lincoln about 3 minutes to deliver. Lincoln has been greatly admired for the brevity of his speech which defined the purpose of the Civil War, redefined America's commitment to "All men are created equal" and put America back on the path to equality for all as intended by the Founding Fathers. So you have unintentionally complimented me with your reference to the Gettysburg address.

In the future if you want to infer that someone is long winded you should refer to Edward Everett who spoke for 2 hours before Lincoln at Gettysburg. Yet no one remembers him or what he said. Or you could refer to authors like Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, James Joyce or Thomas Mann or numerous others. Stay safe.
Thanks, Since '61

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Starrbrite's picture

April 15, 2021 at 07:11 pm

I'll forgive your sanctimony "61...and I'll continue to read your posts with interest because your knowledge of the Packers and/or football is impressive. In the meantime, you'll have to forgive those of us who sometimes listen to the pundits --- blowhards or otherwise...sometimes they prove to be interesting too, even it they're paid for their opinion. Which also begs the question - are writers for this site, and those of us who post opinions "blowhards?" ...and perhaps we are!?1? Fact is, these conversations with you and others are enjoyable; whether we agree or not. Best regards '61.... and I do mean it with sincerity...no sarcasm intended. Looking forward to your next post.

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 07:54 am

Yes, I agree with fact that the draft can get a bit boring as the draft gets to the later rounds. I will 'record' the draft as I hate commercials and then I can go ahead or back to see what is interesting as it affects the Packers as sometimes their are trades that change things plus just interesting to hear what the analysts have to say about the person drafted.

I can't imagine anyone watching the entire draft to the end on live TV.

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Bearmeat's picture

April 14, 2021 at 03:22 pm

You know, I wanted Eliot Wolf and Pat Fitzgerald. I was pissed that TT selected Rodgers and was thrilled about Brandon Jackson. I was excited but very nervous on the bet on CM3 with that draft day trade. I was thrilled with Raji. So what the hell do I know?

That said, I do not like the Packers offseason one little bit. Not the DC selection. Not re-signing King. Not refusing to sign a couple veteran DLmen, who can, all things taken into consideration, be had WAY cheaper than a comparable CB. Refusing to go to the Aaron bank, even just a little, for cap relief, which could be used to help at DL or ILB. Not extending Davante. Head scratchers.

I am happy about the Jones deal, P Smith's restructure, and letting Linsley walk was the right move.

All put together, if I had to guess, I'd guess a 3 or 4 game bump in losses, but still winning the putrid NFCN (and predictably/painfully flaming out in the NFC playoffs... again) for 2021 right now. But there's a lotta ballgame left, and, as I stated above, I'm just a hack fan. WTH do I know? lol.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:13 pm

Let me pose a simple question..to anyone willing to jump in the pool.

In this years draft....is it ok, if the Packers don't find any starters in this draft?

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Since'61's picture

April 14, 2021 at 12:55 pm

P4FL I think we should clarify the definition of a starter before we can answer your question.

If you are expecting a starter from this year's draft on day one I would say that's OK providing 2-3 of our picks at least contribute, even in a rotational role on Day 1. Beyond that I would hope that 2-3 of our picks move into starting roles during the 2nd half of the season. Especially if we pick a CB and and a DL early in the draft. Those are 2 positions that need to be upgraded quickly and hopefully we can accomplish that with this year's draft.
Even a DL who plays 2 downs as an effective role player would be an improvement for the DL.

On offense it would be great if we can pick another Jenkins or Bak who both proved to be immediate starters.

For me, if won't be OK if we don't find any picks who move into starting or regular rotational roles by the end of the season. However, I think that we need to manage our expectations given our late draft position (29th). If we were drafting in the first 10-15 positions then I would say we should have at least one starter in Week 1 and another 2 moving starting roles as the season moves along.

Another factor is that if Gute moves up in the first he should be making that move to obtain a player who can start early in the season if not in Week 1. Beyond that the reality is that it is all a crap shoot. The question is how well does Gute mitigate the inherent risks with any draft selection. Thanks, Since '61

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 03:40 pm

A starter to me is a player who is designated a full time starter. coming out only for rest, or injury.

Concerning a drafted player, he could be the starter in game 1 like Alexander, or he could become the starter in game 3 like Jenkins.
******************************
"The question is how well does Gute mitigate the inherent risks with any draft selection"

I think if he's taking a risk, to help the current team, that's all we can ask. At least we know he's trying.

I don't define a risk, by using the 12th pick for the bench, or drafting a RB 2nd when we didn't have need, or drafting yet another tight end to stack on the pile.

In the move of trading up and drafting Love....that was indeed a risk of a different kind. One that may cost him his career.

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Since'61's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:47 pm

PF4L, I agree with your definition of a starter. Note that Alexander did not become a starter until the middle of his rookie season after he returned from an injury. IIRC it was against the Rams in Week 7 or 8 of the 2018 season.

I thought then and still believe that Gary was a good pick at #12 in 2019. He has all the physical tools to be a solid NFL player and I still believe that Gary can become a force on defense for the Packers. I posted at the time that the Packers would bring him along slowly as he transitioned to the NFL and learned his role in the Packers defense.

Remember Gary came out as a junior and that is a factor in a player's development. He played about 15-20% of the defensive snaps in his rookie season. In 2020 he played a higher percentage and he was having an increasing impact for the Packers defense as the season went on. If the Packers give him more snaps in 2021, which I believe they will, we could see Gary become a dominant player. Remember Clark was bought along slowly when he came out and a junior and look at where he is at now. Our defense has Clark, Gary, Z.Smith and Alexander who are excellent players. Amos is solid and Savage should continue to evolve. If we can draft as another DL and a CB who can become starters during 2021 we can have a very good defense. Possibly enough to reach the SB when combined with our offense. Our OL needs to be solid again in 2021 for that to happen.

As for Love that's all on Gute. His career as Packer GM will probably be defined by Love's career just like Favre defined Ron Wolf's as Packer GM and Rodgers defined TT's GM tenure. Thanks, Since '61

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HawkPacker's picture

April 16, 2021 at 08:07 am

61 I almost always agree with most of what you say but the exception is Gary picked at #12.

I do follow the Big 10 closely and really did not hear much about Gary at all when he was playing for Michigan.

I remember the night he was picked. I was so excited that finally GB had an early pick and they would certainly get a difference maker as they seem to always pick towards the end of the first round. I did some research back then as to who could/should be picked at #12 and Gary did not make that list. That was also the year the signed the Smith bros and that position was pretty well set.

When they made that pick, it just took the wind out of my sails and was pretty disappointing to me. I thought they could have done better. It took awhile but I told myself that the GB front office knows what they are doing and this guy must be a real stud.

So now two years into it, he is not doing too bad but he is not a full time starter at this point. Everyone seems pretty patient with that pick including you.

However, I have read the posts from this article and others as to state that a first rounder should start early in his career, probably immediately. Shouldn't this apply to Gary as well. Yes I can see that he is a great athlete but to be picked early in the first round, why does he get a pass in most people's thinking?

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:15 pm

Good/fun question. I would be happy with a similar contribution to last year's draft. I starter(CB) ,two players that had solid contributions (T & DL), and a couple of fill ins. I wanted an ILB so finding Barnes as a UDFA and Martin eased the surprise of last year's picks. That draft could turn out great if Stepaniak & Hanson pan out. Come on PF Flyer, give Gute some credit. In a draft for the future, drafting low, and for a very good team ;he still found many players that had a fair amount of positive contributions. Checkmate!

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:36 pm

I hope your not driving :)

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 06:48 pm

Hahaha , I'll give you credit for getting everyone's juices flowing. It makes for fun debates, especially when we curb your wayward ways.

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PF4L's picture

April 14, 2021 at 07:36 pm

Hey....i know i'm just the new guy around here...

Figure me as the hungry pooch just tryin to pick up some table scraps here n there.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

April 15, 2021 at 04:14 am

I'm confused. There were no starters from the 2020 draft. There were no solid contributors. Only 652 snaps from the entire draft class. The average is 2202 from 2012 to 2017. Gute's tenure (2018 to 2020) has seen an average of 1878 snaps, with rookie snaps for 2018 and 2019 coming in at 2,491 snaps.

I definitely would be unhappy with a repeat.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 07:40 am

Well i'll be damned!!

Looks like Jersey Al done woke up another person.

What's with all the truth lately?

Nobody wants to hear that garbage.
:)

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PeteK's picture

April 15, 2021 at 10:03 am

I considered Barnes a starter especially later in the season. My total is 1,551( Barnes 508 and Martin 208 ). Not bad for a 14-4 team.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 01:35 pm

Yea...i'm pretty sure he was counting players from the draft class.

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PeteK's picture

April 15, 2021 at 02:36 pm

For me, I have great respect for GMs that find UDFAs that start or contribute.

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Packers0808's picture

April 14, 2021 at 04:27 pm

DL and CB two biggest needs by far! Enough said all other words are wasted!

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PeteK's picture

April 14, 2021 at 05:11 pm

Can I please squeeze a T in there.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 02:54 pm

JerseyAl

April 14, 2021 at 09:23 am

I sure know how to wake up PF4L, don't I? Has to tell us all what the "Truth" is. Of course, it's the "truth" as PF4L has selectively fashioned it .
*********************
You want the truth grandpa....so do i.

Can i hear your truth.... or the truth how JerseyAl selectively fashions it.. Lets put on the big boy pants Al

Will you, old wise one, provide me with the knowledge how the 2020 draft benefited the 2020 team?

Update: NO...he won't.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 14, 2021 at 08:41 pm

Oh, he pulls out the "grandpa." Oh, I'm offended. So which of the guys we've booted from here before are you? Come on, put on your big boy pants and tell us. I've already given you more attention than you deserve.

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PF4L's picture

April 15, 2021 at 03:41 am

Will you, old wise one, provide me with the knowledge how the 2020 draft benefited the 2020 team?

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PeteK's picture

April 15, 2021 at 09:36 am

I told you at 6:15. start with 160 tkls by rookies, 300 yds, and 160 snaps on O line.

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flackcatcher's picture

April 15, 2021 at 10:23 am

Dash Riprock? and at least one other. His style is so 'out there' it is hard to miss. Sad part is he really knows his football, and is a pretty witty commenter. But for some reason he runs this weird stream of thought over the comment threads to the point of spamming.

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BruceIrons's picture

April 14, 2021 at 09:04 pm

On the defensive line, I've been wondering if Za'Darius Smith might play end with Gary and Preston on the edges. I think the draft results will tell us a lot about their plans.

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JerseyAl's picture

April 15, 2021 at 10:31 am

I would lean more towards Gary, but I think both of them will see snaps there.

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PeteK's picture

April 15, 2021 at 11:03 am

I believe they did briefly last season and in 2019.

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