Confessions of a Polluted Mindset: A Packers Brain Drain
Random thoughts swimming around in the Packers' section of my brain.
By JerseyAl
Ty Montgomery: Oh the drama... I spent most of Sunday night dissecting Mike McCarthy's comments on the situation after the game. As I went to bed that night, I was fairly certain that Montgomery was not specifically told on the field to take a knee, but rather that it was "the plan" and something he should have known given the situation.
Then Monday morning, an article by NFL.com's Mike Silver turned everything on its head, implying that according to several Packers players and coaches (who spoke anonymously, of course) Montgomery was pissed at being taken out of the previous series and purposely ignored "the plan."
Then came McCarthy's presser Monday afternoon where he said that during every huddle before a kick, there is a call made and coaching points made and soon after expounded further by saying, "he made a mistake."
Next came a tweet by ESPN's Rob Demovsky quoting Montgomery as saying he has always been told to take a knee in the end zone but he was unsure if that's where he was going to catch it, so he made a split-second decision to not chance it. He also said he has never been one to outright disobey what he is told to do. You can view the interview video and read additional comments by Montgomery here. So basically, this sounded like another Brandon Bostick episode - a player knowing what he's supposed to do, but panicking under pressure in a critical moment.
BUT WAIT! There's more. Yesterday the Packers traded Montgomery for not much more than a case of Spotted Cow - a 2020 7th round draft pick. So what really happened out there on Sunday? We'll likely never know what the full truth is.
Aaron Jones: 12 carries, 7.2 YPC - just your average rotational running back.
Play calling: For all you "Who really calls the plays, McCarthy or Rodgers?" conspiracists. Rodgers' post-game comment when asked why they didn't run as much the second half: "That was Mike calling the plays, obviously. I call them in the 2-minute."
Jaire Alexander: How brilliant does Gutey's maneuvering to get Alexander and a 2019 first round pick look now? As others have noted, this defense seems to play with a different attitude when he's in there. BTW, at the very end of McCarthy's Monday presser, he used the words "our best cover guy" when talking about Alexander.
MVS: I'm guessing he's been getting some coaching from Devante Adams because on that TD pass, he gave a very Devante-like shake and bake with his feet and left Marcus Peters wondering where he went - like the Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote.
Mike Pettine: Each game it gets more and more apparent that he's honing in on what his players do well and using them correctly. Whether it's helping marginal players like Fackrell be successful or nor being afraid to put his rookie cornerback on Brandon Cooks, he gets it. If only Mike McCarthy could do that instead of insisting any player should be able to do whatever is asked of them. You know, like asking Aaron Jones to take a deep handoff in the end zone and run straight into the middle of the Rams' defense.
Offense: It looked so good early with Aaron Jones chewing up yardage which then made the play action work to perfection, giving Rodgers plenty of time to make easy completions. And then Aaron Jones hit the bench - and everything changed. McCarthy's answer for the second half? Open it up some more - not go back to what had worked so well early on. But why, Mike? Why?
Ha Ha: I've been a Ha Ha truther since the day he was drafted. Watching his college tape, I had serious doubts about the guy. My preferred picks at safety were Deone Bucannon or Jimmy Ward. As his Packers career progressed, I saw the same things, an aversion to contact, always playing it safe, bad decisions and slow to react to what's happening in front of him. Ironically, as it did in college, those traits resulted in a bunch of interceptions on tipped balls or overthrown passes. I laughed at his Pro Bowl selection and have railed about his play on the field ever since. Having said all of that, I'm really not a fan of these types of mid-season moves, especially when you're a division contender and you only get back a future draft pick. Add the fact that despite his faults, he was still their best safety, and it's hard to like this move now. They likely would have gotten a 4th round compensatory pick for him anyway, so I would have preferred they keep him on for the rest of the season. Likely his recent public comment about not thinking he'd be back next season was the last straw (a polluted mindset, if you will). On the bright side, I won't have to waste any more complaining about him.
Gutekunst: Stealing a page from Mike McCarthy's book, Gutey sent a message to his team today, " I'm not in the mood for drama. Ok? I appreciate that."
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (156)
Lare
October 31, 2018 at 05:17 am
Well put, Al. At first I questioned how little they got in return for HHCD and Montgomery at this stage of the season, but I have to believe there was much more going on behind the scenes that made these moves inevitable. As some have written, it’s “addition by subtraction” and the team will be better off moving ahead.
jeremyjjbrown
October 31, 2018 at 06:28 am
A fourth round pick, 3.5 million cap space and the dignity gained from not being embarrassed by HaHa's effort and attitude was a pretty reasonable return.
Cubbygold
October 31, 2018 at 07:52 am
Just curious, why does the 3.5M in cap space matter? Can they roll that to next year or something?
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 07:52 am
yes they can.
Razer
October 31, 2018 at 07:56 am
Yes
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 08:46 am
A 100 likes jbrown.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 08:49 am
"They likely would have gotten a 4th round compensatory pick for him anyway"
On a team that will likely use it's newly-found cap space in FA this coming spring--and with the Packers FAs having unknown value (many here would say none) to earn extra picks in 2020--having ANY compensatory picks coming the Packers' way once the formula churns out it's mysterious results is far from a certainty. This way they know they got SOMETHING for HHCD...and in 2019, not 2020.
HankScorpio
October 31, 2018 at 07:51 pm
I'd be shocked if HHCD lands the kind of contract that ends up in 4th rnd comp pick territory.
stockholder
October 31, 2018 at 08:07 pm
I believe this pick will be traded.(4th) HHCD is a quality player. just not worth the money. If Hyde can make all -pro. Dix still has a shot. But Dix is not what the secondary needed. Compared to Nick Collins he stunk.
GBPDAN1
October 31, 2018 at 05:31 am
This season has been full of frustrations and Tuesdays developments are a reflection of it.
I can see Belichick and Brady exploiting our already pour safety play that just got worse in the short term.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 05:52 am
When it rains...
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 08:49 am
...it poors.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 10:34 am
Same page once again!
BradHTX
October 31, 2018 at 11:44 am
You guys are killin’ me over here. When are you taking your vaudeville act on the road?
Daren726
October 31, 2018 at 06:21 am
Let’s see if Breeland can cover Gronk. He should be rested, healthy and ready to show what he’s got. This will be really fun to watch. Perrin will cook something up.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 08:50 am
I'm actually thinking this would be a good spot for Josh Jackson.
Big_Mel_75
October 31, 2018 at 09:09 am
Alexander on the best WR.. Gronk. He just did a hell of a job on Cooks last week. Height difference might be a issue. But I think Alexander's swag would cover the height difference.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 11:35 am
I think Alexander on Edelman makes the most sense.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 01:41 pm
Agree, put a bigger defender on Gronk and don't let him release untouched.
Lphill
October 31, 2018 at 05:47 am
Tramon Williams will move to safety like he did in Cleveland under Pettine and when he did he graded out very well .
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 06:37 am
Very much anticipated, but do you have info on that? Or is that just your expectation too?
jeremyjjbrown
October 31, 2018 at 08:07 am
Might be Williams because he has experience with Pettine playing at safety, but it could be Jackson because he could have brilliant future at the position.
Minniman
October 31, 2018 at 01:22 pm
I wonder if Jackson gets some snaps there but Williams is used as the fail-safe in the event that he gets exploited and becomes a liability.
Whatever personnel are on the field for GB they need to take the seam routes away from NE.
Brady's going to get the ball out quick all day anyway so do a Belichick on NE and take away their go-to seam plays
Doug Niemczynski
October 31, 2018 at 11:17 am
The play where Alexander deflected the pass against B.Cooks that would have gone for a TD was a fantastic play!! Perfectly executed.
Kb999
October 31, 2018 at 05:56 am
Good riddons.
BradHTX
October 31, 2018 at 06:33 am
Watch out for bridges and riddons. You’re going to get some riddons.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 06:39 am
Ever been to a riddon cutting ceremony?
I really would like a crack at those enormous scissors.
(Scissorses?)
JerseyAl
October 31, 2018 at 08:21 am
careful or you guys could get riddon out of here... :)
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 01:43 pm
Your ridden too much into it.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 08:51 am
I keep them in my pocketses.
BradHTX
October 31, 2018 at 11:45 am
With string! Or nothing!
Coldworld
October 31, 2018 at 12:08 pm
I want to riddon this bandwagon
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 04:19 pm
@dobber: Along with your “precious”??
NickPerry
October 31, 2018 at 06:20 am
I'm a fan of the trade of HHCD. IMO Gute had enough the moment he decided to open his mouth about his future next year in GB. Like Al pointed out...Many of his INT's came on tipped passes, not great defensive plays.
I had also read somewhere that Tramon Williams played some Safety for Pettine in Cleveland. I have no idea if that's part of the plan or not but with the Packers depth at CB with King, Jackson, Breeland, and Alexander the Packers can at least experiment and I highly doubt the results could possibly be worse than the results so far this year at Safety.
Last but not least.... Why does Mike McCarthy have such difficulty putting and KEEPING Aaron Jones on the field. Not only did Big Mike say he wanted to run the ball more, he actually did in the first half with great results. I actually thought McCarthy finally GOT IT when he started Jones in the first series on Sunday. But true to McCarthy form he diverts from it in the 2nd half and leaves one of the Packers BEST offensive weapons sitting on the bench.
Now I know I'm no head coach or any kind of coach for that matter but when the guy I started the game with is averaging 7.2 YPC KEEP HIM IN THE GAME would be the FIRST thing that comes to my mind. But for McCarthy this becomes a weekly struggle AND it becomes more and more frustrating to watch. I ALWAYS want the Packers to win, but I can't take another season of McCarthy....He HAS to go. A 14th season would be like a weekly visit to the Oral Surgeon to have impacted Wisdom Teeth pulled...All 4 of them.
Daren726
October 31, 2018 at 06:26 am
It’s a long season. Can’t run jones into the ground Need to mix it up with 30 to keep them both fresh. On the trade: way to go Gute. Don’t let the drama take root. Nip it in the bud. Take control.
JerseyAl
October 31, 2018 at 08:23 am
Are the Rams worried about wearing out Todd Gurley? Are the Chiefs babying Kareem Hunt? Come on, that's a lame excuse. If you have a dynamic offensive weapon, you use him!
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 08:49 am
Exactly. Hell will freeze over before mm gives anywhere near 30 carries to any back. That's the problem.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 08:52 am
I would argue that he doesn't need 30 carries. Even Lacy was only an 18-22 carry back. That was MMs comfort zone, and with #12 chucking the ball, It's more than understandable.
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 10:36 am
True, but there are always a couple of games where it is probably a very good idea.
Minniman
October 31, 2018 at 01:36 pm
The salient point - run the hot hand. (no pun intended)
"no battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy"
Have a game plan but don't be wedded to one that is not yielding results - like not running a scat-back play on your own 1/2 yard line.... a low percentage play.
splitpea1
October 31, 2018 at 11:32 am
Both backs should now see a whole lot more action in the passing game now with the recent trade. Hard to believe, but Jones only has 6 receptions for 41 yards in the five games he's played.
Denise Chanterelle
October 31, 2018 at 12:57 pm
Not to mention Adrian Peterson who's how old now, and getting the ball all game long!
Big_Mel_75
October 31, 2018 at 09:16 am
Look at AP. He was force fed the football for many of years in the purple uniform and still running well over the age of 30... Look at all the great running backs that were productive for many years with being fed the football many more times then they do these days.. I get they need to get a breather once and a while but you don't see anyone running the football they way McTubby does..
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 11:38 am
He's only played about half of his possible games the last two seasons, too.
flackcatcher
October 31, 2018 at 07:22 am
Nick. Enjoy your trip to he dentist. (heh heh heh.......)
stockholder
October 31, 2018 at 08:39 am
So MM puts Jones in full -time. A-Rod calls the plays. Jones gets hurt blocking. Jonathan Franklin. Remember him? Jones is the threat Franklin was. He's not going to use him up. MM also had Monty and watch to see if Cobb is back in at RB. Williams and Jones both do well. Since so many people want Jones starting. I think it's a question the writers should be straight forward with MM about. ASK HIM WHY? PIN MM DOWN!
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 01:55 pm
He does seem a bit stronger this year and could handle the load. I just think that he's still raw and prone to some mistakes, remember he hasn't played a full season yet. Case in point the end zone run, MM has the quick, run to daylight back in, but Jones lowers his head and completely misses the seam that opened up to the right.
NickPerry
November 01, 2018 at 04:53 am
Wow I think I missed that seam. What I didn't miss was the WR playing to Rodgers left could have easily won a slant. They could have had any RB sitting behind Rodgers SEVEN yards deep and it would have failed.
jeremyjjbrown
October 31, 2018 at 06:22 am
"If only Mike McCarthy could do that instead of insisting any player should be able to do whatever is asked of them."
I was always interested in the Quote "Players not Plays". What does it mean?
- Coach speak for "get me better players GM"?
- It doesn't matter what plays we run if they players are good they'll make it work, so stop harping on play calling.
- We should run the kinds of plays that match our players skills because a plays are ephemeral but the roster is fixed.
- Something else.
I like the later, but I wonder what everyone else thinks it means.
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 07:00 am
I do believe its players not plays. That being said plays can make players better and give players better opportunities.
But yes, players have to execute!
The part of play calling (play design) that I don't like is for example on the goal line. I'm fine with running it. What I don't like is with our offense bringing everyone in tight against one of the toughest run defenses in the league. Spread them out and then run it. Or throw it.
BTW on that play Rodgers should have thrown the slant to MVS. He was wide open. And if Rodgers hits him there was the CB and S to stop him. Who knows what happens with his speed.
Thegreatreynoldo
October 31, 2018 at 11:32 am
It seems obvious to me that:
Players, not plays is wrong;
Plays, not player is wrong.
It is both players and plays. Might be 60-40 or 75-25, but it is both.
jeremyjjbrown
October 31, 2018 at 12:06 pm
Me too.
BradHTX
October 31, 2018 at 01:21 pm
This is a simple question: it’s a false dichotomy. It’s not an either/or, it’s a both/and.
Players have to execute the plays as they’re supposed to: Ty Montgomery on the final return that resulted in the game-ending fumble.
Players also have to be given plays they have a reasonable chance of executing: Aaron Jones on the carry in the end zone that resulted in the game-changing safety.
Both plays are equally responsible for the Packers losing a game they otherwise played very well and could (or even should) have won. One was a player breakdown and one was a playcall breakdown. Anyone who needs to resort to a cliche line like “Players, not plays” lacks the critical thinking to know nothing is ever black and white.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 04:38 pm
Except on a piano keyboard.
Oh lord.
BradHTX
October 31, 2018 at 04:51 pm
TK and me. Perfect harmony.
BradHTX
October 31, 2018 at 04:52 pm
Reply fail. Unharmonious.
Thegreatreynoldo
October 31, 2018 at 10:45 pm
Boo Brad. Too many notes?
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 06:52 am
Montgomery - I always like Montgomery. I thought he was going to be a matchup nightmare with the players we have.
That didn't work out.
Aaron Jones - Clearly the best RB we have. In all honesty Jones is probably one of the top RB's in the NFC. Now its time to start using him more!
Play Calling - While Rodgers said that, on the Goal Line play McCarthy said that Rodgers had the option to throw the slant pass. Which MVS was WIDE open on. So he does have the luxury of making changes.
Jaire Alexander - I have been saying it and will continue to say it but the manuevers Gutekunst made in the first round of the draft was pure genius. Essentially moving down 4 spots, taking Alexander, and getting a 1st round for this coming year. Simpy a Steal!
Alexander right now is probably our 2nd best defensive player. And who knows by the end of the year he may overtake Clark for that. I have been one that has brought up that the defense is simply different with Jaire in it. He brings an energy and swagger they haven't had in a while. And having him and King on the field at the same time, makes our CB's really good!
MVS - STUD!!! You can just see the confidence building with him. And you can see Rodgers trust building with him. Bold prediction. By the end of the year MVS will have a 200+ yard receiving game!
Mike Pettine - I have full trust in him. I think the bye came at the perfect time. He was able to look at what they did the first 6 games and make changes accordingly. The defense has actually performed pretty well up to this point. They are an improving unit as they get more comfortable with what Pettine wants them to do.
Offense - Hopefully now after Montgomery is gone they can stop doing this RB by series thing they have going. I'd like to see more of a Jones on 1st - 2nd down, Williams on 3rd down kind of thing. Or every 3-4th play change them.
Clinton-Dix - I liked him but didn't love him. There is one play that still stands out to me. Against the Redskins there was a post ran at the goal line. The WR caught it for a TD right in front of Clinton-Dix. The problem was Clinton-Dix stopped and basically let him score. At least hit the guy or he could have attempted to make a play on the ball. He lacked a killer instinct.
I would like to know if there was more going on behind the scenes with him. Perhaps causing more drama. Getting a guaranteed 4th round pick this year for him is honestly fine with me. A compensation pick would have been in 2020 (if they got one for him).
What I'm really curious about now is who takes his snaps. Does Josh Jones get playing time? Does Whitehead become the starting S? Do one of the CB's slide into the Safety position?
I'm assuming we won't know the answer until Sunday. Which I'm good with!
Gutekunst - is NOT Ted Thompson!
Turophile
October 31, 2018 at 08:58 am
You get a 'like' from me just for the last sentence alone.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 04:41 pm
And you get a ‘like’ from The TKstinator for liking that.
IamGute
October 31, 2018 at 07:22 am
Brice plays in the box and corners rotate covering the other safety spot
Savage57
October 31, 2018 at 07:53 am
Spot on about Chicken-Dix. The cowardice Dix showed last year after the Packers exercised the 5th year option, constantly running away from contact, was an unforgivable mortal sin for a defensive player.
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 08:53 am
Totally agree. I'm more from the Jim Taylor School of Packer football. Hit whoever you need to ,whenever you need to , especially if it means getting the ball back. And he was an offensive player.
lebowski
October 31, 2018 at 09:04 am
Watching that film review post of him jogging around with no intention of hitting anyone made my blood boil. Don't let the door hit ya....
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 10:38 am
It's like watching someone basket hanging at the other end of the Court.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:03 pm
and the hauntingly poor play at the end of the Seattle debacle !
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 08:53 am
As usual,always more excited when it's time for this section. When I first saw the title I said boy this is going to be a good one. Great job, suitable for framing.
DragonSilk
October 31, 2018 at 08:08 am
I don't see why any Packer kick returner would ever run a ball out of the end zone. They rarely get beyond the 25. With the game on the line Montgomery should have just let any ball inside the 5 go. I've never seen a KO bounce backwards like a punt.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:07 pm
With that said , I wonder if Davis will be back from IR
stockholder
October 31, 2018 at 08:11 am
I didn't like the -Dix pick either. He was to slow. They called it a no brainer. Gute did the right thing. They ended all the drama with him. Now and after the season. The money can be spent elsewhere. Monty wasn't in the plans after the season. He was another player that MM tried to put into a round hole. Take the 7th. The blocks are gone and others can develop. MM still knows he has to pass to win. I still think A-Rod is calling to many plays. But when you fall behind you can't sit on it with running Jones more. The rookies can do the job. The end result is this team is faster now.
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 08:34 am
Removing the drama is huge. Would only have been detrimental to the team, and spared us from having to endure the inevitable comments from Dix ,and usual pap from mm afterwords.
Razer
October 31, 2018 at 08:19 am
Lest we forget, we are half way through the season. Jettisoning players because of attitude or poor fit should have happened in August. Filling any safety position, when safety is one of our weakest positions is not what this team needs to be doing now. The Packers have bigger problems than we like to admit. This smells like a Jerry Jones organization.
Clinton Dix should have been traded before the season even started for the garbage that he pulled at the close of last year and this spring. Ty Montgomery should have been used more creatively in an offense that lacks creativity. Baltimore just got a talented football player who they will get good RB/WR performance out of. We didn't because our offense is disorganized and outdated.
Applaud all you want for giving away players mid-season but things are not right on this team. Gutekunst has more tough decisions ahead.
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 08:44 am
While I typically would agree with you about trading players midway through the season, I really wonder what was going on behind closed doors.
Was Clinton-Dix causing a lot of issues? Perhaps?
Montgomery definitely was upset with not getting as much playing time. I agree he should have had a bigger role in the offense using his versatility more.
That being said I wonder if there were some more issues there as well. If something had been building there?
I do think the Packers felt with Clinton-Dix there won't be much of a drop off with who they will use in his place. Maybe even a rotation. They have Breeland, Jackson and Jones who can have a big increased role.
They could move Williams to Safety more full time which Nagler said he played some Sunday.
I think they have a plan, and don't feel there will be much of a drop off?
I don't think there will be as much turnover as you are thinking honestly. Perhaps a few players, but the core of the team is there. Rodgers, Jones/Williams, Adams, MVS/ESB, Bakhtiari, Taylor, Linsley, Clark, Daniels, Martinez, Alexander, King, Jackson are for sure the core of the team they are going to be building around for the future.
Gutekunst is also setting himself up well in the 2019 draft. 10 picks right now. 2 - 1st, 4th and 6th round picks as of right now.
flackcatcher
October 31, 2018 at 09:10 am
That is the main point that folks here are missing RC. The Packers know what they need, IAMGUTE now has room to maneuver pre draft. I have always believe that the Packers were better before last years draft. But the wreckage of last year had to be cleared out before we would know what kind of team the Packers had. We all knew last years draft had the potential to be good, but now it's starting to look special. The question was would this be a soft or hard rebuild. That's no long the question. The question now is, is this going to be a soft rebuild, or just a reload, a huge difference that will decide the direction this team take post season.
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 09:25 am
Completely agree that this draft could be special.
Alexander - Seriously WOW! If he keeps getting better the sky is the limit. And just throw in the fact that they got another 1st round pick this year with him. Truly the best deal of the draft!
Jackson - Has been a bit up and down but shows a ton of potential and I think will really be one of the guys that takes a big 2nd year jump.
Burks - Same as Jackson. I think he has a lot of upside. Speaking of burks is he a guy that benefits from Clinton-Dix now gone?
Moore - While he has struggle the most out of the 3 rookies he shows a lot of upside. He definitely has a future though.
Madison - I have no clue.. One of the oddest things I have seen.
Scott - Minus his last punt he has looked like the best punter we have had in 10+ years.
Marquez Valdes-Scantling - He maybe the steal of the draft? He keeps getting better and better. Teams are already respecting his deep speed. You can just see his confidence keep building and building! He has been extremely good and continues to improve!
Equanimeous St. Brown - He has been very good! His ability to contort his body has been very impressive for a guy his size. He has speed and his hands are fantastic. Getting both MVS & ESB in the 5th and 6th rounds are looking like steals!
Looney/Donnerson - Both on the PS. Perhaps they can come up later in the year or at least be ready for next year!
Lining up with 10 picks and being the only team with 2 first round picks so far could be huge in the draft.
4thand10
October 31, 2018 at 04:31 pm
And don’t forget about Kumerow Uno.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 09:23 am
" do think the Packers felt with Clinton-Dix there won't be much of a drop off with who they will use in his place. Maybe even a rotation."
We can't lose sight of the fact that HHCD played pretty much every snap, every week, every year. Even if we weren't happy with some of his play, that's a lot of situational play that needs to be taken into account and adjusted to new personnel. If he wasn't doing at least some things better than most of the other players on the roster, it would be hard to rationalize his usage.
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 09:28 am
Its why i think it will be more of a rotational thing. Perhaps a situational thing. I don't foresee it being 1 player filling in for Clinton-Dix.
Lets be honest. As much as he has played, he has been pretty mediocre. He was better this year, but for every good-great play he made he had at least 1 bad play. And so many plays he refused to do anything on.
My guess is this was more about behind the scene issues.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 09:04 am
Sell high on HHCD? Certainly PFF loves him. At this point, his value must be higher than it's been since his pro bowl season.
I can't believe they would move him without some clear plan for how they would go forward that they--meaning the coaches--were at least comfortable with (if not happy about).
flackcatcher
October 31, 2018 at 09:17 am
I think Gute would have never pulled the trigger without input from McCarthy. He is after all in his first year as GM. Both these guys had become problems in different ways, and a message had to be sent. That Gute got value for both, and gave both players a fresh start is a hallmark of a good GM.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 09:19 am
This may be an indication for all those naysayers out there that the current administrative structure is at least somewhat functional.
Razer
October 31, 2018 at 09:44 am
If Gutekunst made these moves without coaching input, I would worry about the administrative state of affairs. If they conferred and had a workable plan going forward, I am optimistic about the organization. I do appreciate the decisiveness of these moves.
Coldworld
October 31, 2018 at 12:14 pm
Murphy has final say. If the new structure is functioning at all, both MM and Gutekunst must have spoken with him, maybe Russ Ball as well (even if they did not consult one-on-one) before the trigger was pulled.
Guam
October 31, 2018 at 08:23 am
Due to the fact that Gute is much more active in free agency than TT, it is not clear the Packers would have received any compensatory pick for HHCD, much less a 4th. Although the formula is "top secret", I believe it is commonly accepted that the League nets free agency additions and subtractions before determining compensatory picks. If Gute signs a number of free agents next Spring, we may have gotten nothing for HHCD. At least with this trade, Gute guarantees a 2019 4th round pick for HHCD and keeps his options open for free agency.
JerseyAl
October 31, 2018 at 08:44 am
that is an EXCELLENT point I hadn't thought of. Well done.
Turophile
October 31, 2018 at 12:52 pm
A poster on another site suggested a two year cycle, regarding getting and losing veterans.
In year B, you get compensation for losses, because you have been Ted Thompson like, the previous year (year A), and your losses were not offset by veteran gains. In year B you also go more all-in, acquiring several solid vets and accepting that due to the vets added you will get few, if any, comp picks the next year (year C). You don't get significant FAs in that year either, so year C is effectively = to year A. Rinse and repeat in a two year cycle.
With a little bit of forethought and planning, I reckon that could work out rather well.
Guam
October 31, 2018 at 09:56 am
After years of "training" by TT, it is hard for us Packer fans to even conceive of activity in free agency much less all of its ramifications. Interesting that Gute was able to leave that training behind so quickly and use free agency as well as he has. I am impressed by our new GM!
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 10:07 am
"I am impressed by our new GM!"
You are not alone!
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 09:06 am
I should have read further down before I posted. You beat me to this one!
In essence, you can subtract something from something, but you can't subtract something from nothing.
Tundraboy
October 31, 2018 at 10:47 am
And addressed an issue as efficiently as possible. Decisive.
sonomaca
October 31, 2018 at 08:28 am
They haven’t made moves to fill the spots. Davis, Kumerow, Carson, Vitale?
sonomaca
October 31, 2018 at 08:30 am
Davis also has history of making poor decisions on ST. Plus, they don’t need any receivers.
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 08:45 am
I don't think he is available for another game or 2? I'm not sure though.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 09:06 am
Has to spend 8 weeks on IR, I believe.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 09:07 am
He's also about the only guy they have that threatens a coverage unit....assuming no holding or block-in-the-back penalties are called.
Doug_In_Sandpoint
October 31, 2018 at 10:16 am
Really weak assumptions there Dob.
Thegreatreynoldo
October 31, 2018 at 11:40 am
Davis and Kumerow should be eligible to play against NE, IIRC.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 11:40 am
Yeah...
smh
Thegreatreynoldo
October 31, 2018 at 11:51 am
Don't look at me: RC asked. I've already written that I doubt GB recalls either player this season, barring injury.
Coldworld
October 31, 2018 at 12:20 pm
There is still the possibility of bringing a PS, CFL or FA player in as a returner or at RB. If from IR, likely would need more time to be game ready, so could be delayed till after next game.
If it is from our PS expect the promotion at last minute for a RB, otherwise would need to familiarize so likely earlier. Returner would likely be able to play if signed at anytime.
Mark Gaedtke
October 31, 2018 at 09:02 am
As fans we know less than we think we do. However, I am ready to speculate that both players had begun to wear on the morale of a team that desperately needs to be "all in." I can't remember which coach, when talking about people who weren't all in with the program, "Don't want 'em, can't win with 'em!" I suspect that's what it came down to. Good luck to both young men, but it was time to move on.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 04:48 pm
1. I disagree; my lack of knowledge knows no bounds.
2. Mike Singletary.
Cartwright
October 31, 2018 at 09:12 am
Before all the bru ha ha regarding Ty's fumble I flashed back to a play that happened many moons ago and it was against the Los Angeles Rams. It was Eddie Lee Ivory at the half yard line being given the ball to punch it in for a score and he fumbles it and we lost although it wasn't at such a crucial point in the game. Do any of you long in the tooth remember that one, it pissed me off so much I still remember it.
Since'61
October 31, 2018 at 09:45 am
Fordham - I remember the play, except it wasn't Ivory it was Terdell Middleton. Thanks, Since '61
Cartwright
October 31, 2018 at 09:26 pm
My friend are you sure, I had Eddie Lee in the doghouse all these years. I coulda sworn it was him. Gotta look that up or can someone confirm, maybe I had them confused on that one. Whoever it may have been like Ty's fumble, a terd play it was for sure.
Skip greenBayless
October 31, 2018 at 12:00 pm
I remember it was Brent Fullwood. 1989. If Fullwood doesn't fumble the Packers I believe would have had the largest comeback deficit in NFL history at that time. I was so pissed at that fumble. Still remember it to this day. Majik was my favorite player at that time. First Packers qb in my life at the time that I was proud of. Damn Fullwood!!
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:28 pm
We had that one great 10 win season with a win versus Niners. Who knows how far we could have gone if there was a wild card. Then Siberia for the next few seasons.
Skip greenBayless
October 31, 2018 at 03:14 pm
Yep, 10-6. My first double digit win season in my lifetime and I was 25 years old at the time and we still didn't make the playoffs. It was hands down my all time favorite and most memorable season to this day. The Bears at GB and Majik hitting Sharpe for the win. Epic!! 1989 is forever the year that stands out more than any other including the two super bowl season. I know, crazy but that's how bad the Packers were in the 70's and 80's. You know what I am talking about PeteK.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 06:43 pm
I was 34, and that years draft produced SI's the incredible bulk who became the biggest bust. Thank god the music was good in the 70s and 80s
Since'61
October 31, 2018 at 02:35 pm
Dash - you are correct! It was Brent Fullwood. I was incorrect about Middleton. I think that I was so underwhelmed with Fullwood that I forgot all about him. Thanks, Since '61
Skip greenBayless
October 31, 2018 at 03:16 pm
Yeah, Fullwood had one decent season in 1989 and made the pro bowl then faded away quickly. I loved Terdell (TD). He was smooth. I think 1978 was his 1000 yard season. Another historic achievement for the Packer back.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 05:00 pm
Yall are right in my wheelhouse. I remember Terdell; hard nosed with somewhat limited talent; gained 1,116 yards in 1978. Team went 8-7-1.
Eddie Lee Ivery: my first really FAVORITE player, such a stud in preseason his rookie year, tore up knee in game 1, rehabbed like a beast, decent year the next year, then tore up knee again game 1 year 3, more rehab, “okay” production after that, but what could have been! (Dickey, Ellis, Lofton, Coffman, JJ, and crap defenses)
Fullwood: highly touted out of Auburn, tummy ache vs Bears, big disappointment.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 06:51 pm
Except for Tim Harris
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 10:06 pm
Yeah, he was fun. And throughout that era they had some individuals (Mark Lee, Johnny Gray, John Anderson, Mike Douglass, George Cumby, Brian Noble, Johnny Holland,...) but never a strong enough compliment to a pretty good offense.
Skip greenBayless
October 31, 2018 at 08:02 pm
TK, you bring up yet another vivid and sad memory. Eddie Lee Ivery. Just the name sounded so cool. I really believe he would have made the hall of fame. Instead, game one against the Bears. I remember he was dominating early on. Had like 4 rushes for 49 yards or something like that. I think it was Doug Plank or Gary Fencik that hit him and tore his knee up. That was the first time I ever cried for a football player. He was never the same after that day. Lost his speed and cutting. Still decent but just not electric like he was showing on the first opening day game. Yes, then he hurts his knee all over again two years later against the same damn Chicago Bears team. A very sad story over all. Loved Eddie Lee too. Terdell was good but Eddie Lee as I said would have been a hall of famer had he not hurt that knee. He was that special.
Cartwright
October 31, 2018 at 09:44 pm
So it was Brent Fullwood, was there another similar game against the Rams a few years before that 'cause I got Eddie Lee Ivory in my memory banks as I was watching the boob tube and cursing him out on that fumble in very similar fashion to what we've been doing now lately in almost every game it seems.
Razer
October 31, 2018 at 09:36 am
Gutekunst has definitely exercised the "put-up or shut-up" option on this season. The timing of this move - after a spirited game in LA and before a marquee game in NE - will define the season. We may all be spared the agony of watching an under performing Packers team try to find its 'identity' if NE clobbers us on Sunday. OR We may witness the jelling of this team if they slay the dragon in its lair.
For me, this game is for all the marbles.
Since'61
October 31, 2018 at 10:00 am
I don't know if MM or any other coach, Pettine?, had any input but I think Gute has sent a very effective message to the team by moving both Monty and Dix off the team at this point in the season.
In Monty's case screw up and hurt the team and you are gone. In Dix's case the Packers may have a plan to trade him all along but they needed to let him play to see if his worth would increase over the season. After his 2017 performance Dix may not even have been worth a #4 pick prior to the season. In any case he's gone and we have another draft pick to work with in 2019. The message is if you can't play at 100% you will be gone.
I like Gute's determined effort to continually try to improve the team. While it may appear that trading Dix weakens our safety group I actually think the position group will be improved with him gone. I would put Williams and Jones at the safety spots and let them play. Move Brice into the hybrid role and let him hit people. For all we know Pettine may have wanted Dix gone after watching him play during the first 7 games. Trying something is always better than doing nothing. Management 101. Thanks, Since '61
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:33 pm
I like the move overall, but a bit dangerous losing a ballhawking vet in the middle of the season. However ,I'm sure the coaching staff saw some ability in the many options we have.
Since'61
October 31, 2018 at 02:39 pm
Yes, Dix has some ball-hawking ability but he wasn't bringing any physicality to his play at all since the 2016 season. He often looked liked he was shying away and avoiding contact with ball carriers. For better of worse his time was done in Green Bay. I'm glad that Gute has moved on. Thanks, Since '61
Guam
October 31, 2018 at 04:48 pm
I am sure Gute would not have moved a starter without consulting the coaching staff. You can't cut the legs out from under you coaching group by moving someone they were adamant about keeping unless you intend to fire the lot of them at the end of the season. Pettine has done too good a job for that.
I suspect the coaching staff was not enthralled with HHCD's performance and the FO knew from his comments they were going to lose HHCD in the offseason. This allowed Gute to move him and the coaching staff to start developing his replacement now. Unfortunate loss of a starter this year, but likely a gain for next year.
johngalt
October 31, 2018 at 10:19 am
Spot on assessment of HHCD. Most of his pics were a result of right place/time. Few were the result of anticipation. Instinct plays should become more numerous as a safety hits his prime. His effort was dog sh-- far too often as well. A sure 4th next year is better than a hopeful 4th comp in 2020.
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 10:48 am
Listening to Gutekunst - They will need to add a RB.
Listening to McCarthy - Sounds like a couple of guys will get more opportunities on defense.
To me it sounds like its going to be situational type of defense. Certain packages will be used vs certain offenses. It won't be 1 player replacing Clinton-Dix. It will be a few guys.
Thats my take on listening to each.
Community Guy
October 31, 2018 at 11:34 am
good synopsis RC.. given the propensity for running backs to get injured, i totally agree with Gutekunst: the Pack need to add a 3rd RB.
maybe it is just me, but, i am looking forward to seeing the personnel to fill in at safety. could Josh Jones make a comeback? might Raven Greene see action? will Whitehead show improvement?
no way is the season over.. many possibilities ahead as the young guys get more experience.
RCPackerFan
October 31, 2018 at 11:40 am
Listening to McCarthy, when asked about Josh Jones, he said he was hurt througout camp, then got hurt and missed a few games. He said he is one of the guys that has the opportunity to take advantage of the situation. So he maybe the guy. Maybe not this week but in 2-3 weeks maybe?
Yeah, honestly I don't think there will be that much of a drop off. Maybe not better just not a drop off per say. Clinton-Dix made some big plays but he also gave up a lot of big plays too. And he missed a lot of tackles.
No the season isn't over by any means.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 11:44 am
Jones isn't a true FS/centerfielder at this point in his career. Maybe he can be coached into it, but he hasn't shown that yet. I would argue that his better chance comes from subbing for Brice or playing ILB (where he has to fight Burks for snaps). I just don't see a clear path to more playing time for him right now, but he knows there's a void that needs to be filled. If he's still essentially a special teamer come the end of December, I think that says a lot.
Another case of a guy with loads of talent who can't find his way onto the field.
Coldworld
October 31, 2018 at 12:23 pm
Physical talent has never been enough at safety. That position requires awareness and the ability to anticipate. Used to be said it took 3 years to unleash a safey’s full potential.
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 05:02 pm
Totally agree!
Nick Collins, anyone? Stud physically, took awhile (and widely reported help from Charles Woodson) to shine.
LambeauPlain
October 31, 2018 at 11:35 am
Yep. Pettine's D has always been situational based on the weekly opponent. He stated that during his introduction presser in Green Bay.
I like the approach.
After the duo of King Alexander, he will select the final 3 or 4 DBs who will play Sunday evening from Tramon, Jackson, Breeland, Jones, Brice and Whitehead. Hopefully in that order.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:35 pm
Certainly showed that versatility versus Rams .
Doug Niemczynski
October 31, 2018 at 11:20 am
Who is going to be our 3rd back? We can't play with just 2 rb.
LambeauPlain
October 31, 2018 at 11:37 am
MM plays with 0 RBs often...too often it seems.
But I expect Carson may be added from the PS or maybe a FA RB.
Hey...Eddie Lacy is sitting by the phone with a bucket of ribs!
Coldworld
October 31, 2018 at 12:27 pm
I would look at our former 3rd RB, currently on a PS or one who has been on our active roster this season. They should know the system and provide the best chance to provide effective cover early.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:37 pm
and we could use him on the D line because he's probably 400 lbs by now !
Thegreatreynoldo
October 31, 2018 at 11:49 am
Sigh. As I've always suspected, Jersey Al doesn't read my articles, or in this aspect thought I was daft.
"They likely would have gotten a 4th round compensatory pick for him anyway, so I would have preferred they keep him on for the rest of the season."
Yeah, I don't think GB earns any comp picks.
Edit: Now I've read the comments. Suspicion confirmed. :(
Doug Niemczynski
October 31, 2018 at 01:56 pm
I just read:
Packers promote Tra Carson off practice squad to replace Ty Montgomery.
Green Bay still has one open roster spot after Tuesday’s trades and could be activating Trevor Davis or Jake Kumerow off IR to fill the void.
By Peter_Bukowski@Peter_Bukowski Oct 31, 201
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:40 pm
Davis was a solid returner, especially on punts.
Guam
October 31, 2018 at 04:55 pm
Lots of the rest of us read your articles TGR!!!! Please keep up the very good work!
TKWorldWide
October 31, 2018 at 05:04 pm
Ditto.
LambeauPlain
October 31, 2018 at 11:38 am
"They likely would have gotten a 4th round compensatory pick for him anyway..."
None of this is guaranteed! And it would be 2020 until Gute found out. As Guam stated above a 2019 GUARANTEED 4TH is a big old bird in the hand.
And I think Pettine saw CD and a square peg for a round hole in his D and not a long term answer for his QB on the back end of the defense.
And his finger pointing and blaming in the locker room and inability to look into the mirror made him expendable for the last half of the season.
Sooner or later he was gone anyway. Sooner was the operative word.
4thand1
October 31, 2018 at 12:51 pm
After watching the Monty fumble numerous times, it almost looks like he fumbled on purpose. Any back or returner knows when he's about to get hit covers up the ball with both hands. He never attempts to and falls with one arm/hand on the ball. Like he didn't give a shit. That also describes haha's play, avoid contact, late to the play, wait for an overthrow, shitty attitude and play. If you're not all in..................get the hell out.
OldTimer
October 31, 2018 at 12:55 pm
I wonder if we are about to see the nest phase of Pentine's defense. I doubt ant one player is going to be used to replace HaHa in the same role. I also wonder if we will see Cobb returning kick offs now that our rookie receivers are being utilized more. We can risk putting him back there now. I think we roll with our two running backs and fall back on our practice squad if we need someone else. We could even see a fullback again.
dobber
October 31, 2018 at 01:52 pm
As of right now, they still have two open roster slots, right?
Oppy
October 31, 2018 at 01:55 pm
I had an update pushed to my phone that said PAckers signed a RB..
Don't know who.
Oppy
October 31, 2018 at 01:57 pm
Here it is.
https://www.packers.com/news/packers-sign-rb-tra-carson-to-active-roster...
Denise Chanterelle
October 31, 2018 at 01:26 pm
Many well thought out, articulate, posts here today on CHTV, with Al's well-written story. Thanks for the free education and history class Gents. Now, let's take it all to the house and firmly erase NE on Sunday night. Go Pack!
Oppy
October 31, 2018 at 01:54 pm
Rodgers is full of shit and happy to let his coach fall on the sword.
Yeah, I said it.
We all have been directly told by both Rodgers and MM over the years that while MM puts in a play call, virtually EVERY play has a run/pass check built into it, and on top of that, Rodgers ultimately has free reign to wholesale switch out of a play call to something else. So yeah, MM calls the plays. That doesn't mean Rodgers is running the play that was called. Let's not forget Rodgers complained the Packers weren't "aggressive enough" on offense after that game, and specifically talked about taking more deep shots at Adams and MVS. Earlier in the year, he talked not about giving Aaron Jones more carries, but getting Aaron Jones "more involved" and "more touches". That's a bit different that getting him carries. Does that sound like Rodgers wanted to run the ball more? Not to me.
He's supremely talented. He's also become a real piece of work.
PeteK
October 31, 2018 at 02:51 pm
Belichick did say today that if Rogers played for him , he would have 7000 yards per year. I agree that some people wrongly always put the blame solely on MM .
DragonSilk
October 31, 2018 at 03:18 pm
Half the time Dix looked like he was purposely targeting where the ball carrier was not. One time is stuck in my mind where he ran directly into the hole after the back ran through it.
Doug Niemczynski
October 31, 2018 at 03:27 pm
Please dont hate me for this comment. Funny, how when you ask an nfl player to take a knee he wont do it. But, when you tell an nfl player to take a knee he won't.
So, I think that's where TY got confused.
Why would I be t9ld
Doug Niemczynski
October 31, 2018 at 03:30 pm
That didn't make any sense at all.
Doug Niemczynski
October 31, 2018 at 03:32 pm
Now I'm confused.
Great, now I just got traded to Ravenhead TV...ugh
Doug Niemczynski
October 31, 2018 at 04:09 pm
MM. ..Never got a coach of the year..just sayin...
Rebecca
October 31, 2018 at 07:36 pm
OhhhhDoug! lol
Ken
October 31, 2018 at 08:13 pm
Looks like HHCD, knowing he was going to be a free agent, went into the LeVeon Bell mode of not putting your body at risk to avoid injury (like Earl Thomas) and thus not putting out 100% and sacrificing your body for your brothers on the team . Bad for the locker room and for teammates morale. Gutey had to get rid of him bc of that. Just speculating of course, but it is plausible.
Minniman
October 31, 2018 at 08:51 pm
While not disagreeing with your comment - and perhaps this is an older, cooler head commenting rather than a young one - but I can't see how inconsistent play and effort and (rumored) discontent could help his brand and market value.
If the talking heads on NFL network are raising these questions then they are very much damaging common knowledge.
Look for HHCD to play lights out, committed football for the rest of the year (or not)..... his football future trajectory probably depends on it.