Confessions of a Polluted Mindset: A Packers Brain Drain

Random thoughts swimming around in the Packers' section of my brain.

Brian Bulaga: Looks like he has officially entered the "plodding" category. That's not to say I don't appreciate his grit and what he's done as a Packer, but it's time to move on. Unfortunately, Jason Spriggs has not shown at all that he's an NFL tackle. 

Early success: Early on, we saw Jones getting the ball regularly, a jet sweep and a 3-step drop for a TD all on the same drive? So, they are capable of doing this stuff. Why does it disappear?

Alexander: One thing you can count on, if there's a pass being contested by a #Packers DB, #23 will be in your picture.

Timeouts: I get what MM is trying to accomplish with the defensive timeouts before the half, the problem is he does it too soon and on the wrong downs. You don't do it with over two minutes left and on 2nd down. You wait to see if you force a third down and then you do it.

Offensive rhythm: Several times this season a flowing Packers offense was brought to a screeching halt when Aaron Jones was replaced by Jamal Williams, just because it was his turn. This past game was as prime an example you'll find. The Packers score on two straight possessions with Jones running great, he even scores the second TD. What happens on their next series? Jamal Williams comes in, the Packers go three and out  - end of offensive rhythm for the rest of the game. To be clear, I'm not blaming Williams, I believe the Packers offense could be successful with him as the primary running back. What I'm pointing out is the unnecessary changing up of what's working well, "just because." It's a concept that has hurt the Packers multiple times this year, the usage of the running backs is just the most obvious example.

Short Yardage: As much as I love Aaron Jones, it's pretty obvious to (almost) everyone, that he is not your short yardage back when all you need is a foot or two and you plan to run a straight handoff into a short-yardage stacked box defense. THAT is when you use Jamal Williams. Or maybe be smarter and do something else, like a quarterback sneak, a highly successful tactic the Packers seem to disdain.

McCarthy: To quote a little Shakespeare, "Off with the crown, and with the crown his head."  Or if you prefer something a little less erudite, to quote former Packers coach Kevin Green, It. Is.Time. Time for the man wearing the coach’s crown, Mike McCarthy to see his reign in Green Bay come to an end. But hey, he’ll still have a street named after him in town (something that has always irked me, but let's move on). Much like Andy Reid, it appears Mike will need to be put in the much less comfortable position of coaching a new team to make him realize he needs to evolve along with the league in order to maintain success. This “highly successful NFL coach” will need to earn that designation again elsewhere. As tough as it might be for me, I can acquiesce and be ok with the Packers not making the playoffs if it brings McCarthy’s departure. I'll never wish for them to lose, but I can accept it in this situation. While I don’t expect anything to happen during the season, I expect Mike to be part of the traditional  “Black Monday purge of “unsuccessful” NFL coaches. I find it fitting that this year it comes on Dec 31. Hopefully, we can all toast and dream wistfully of a new direction and a “Happy New Year” for the Packers. 

Scheme: Think Mccarthy/Rodgers ignore the middle of the field? Well, you're right.

 

 

SIgh:

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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  

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Comments (171)

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PAPackerbacker's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:22 am

Unable to convert on 3rd down has been a critical area that has not been played well by AR the entire season. It's not 3rd down and touchdown, it's 3rd down and a certain amount of yardage needed to get 4 more downs. Yet AR continues to look for that deep ball and one particular WR named Adams way to often and not look for the open man to get another 4 downs and keep the sticks moving. This is a team sport and there are other players who can contribute to the success of the team other than Adams. The talent is there and many times AR has passed up an open man for the first down and gone deep or held onto the ball to long looking for Adams and ends up getting sacked. What ever happened to spreading the wealth and the short passing game?

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Chad Lundberg's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:04 pm

I’m almost hoping to see Deshone Kizer play at this point. And play Tonyan, St. Brown, Scantling, and J’mon Moore. Just develop players at this point. Bubble Wrap Aaron Rodgers and lock him in an underground bunker below the Pentagon and keep him safe till next year.

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Minniman's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:20 pm

I respectfully don't agree. With last year lost and half of this year in 'injury survival mode' AR looks like he needs more snaps with this new playing group than less.

By all means give Kizer some regular drives to check in on his progress, but I'd rather see the new WR's and TE's getting game time with AR to both build familiarity and see how they've improved too!

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Kb999's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:51 am

This team totally underachieved. Rotten at the top, trickle down effect. Coaching staff needs to go.

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EddieLeeIvory's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:24 am

Great article at SI.com yesterday.
It's good that people are starting to realize, admit, that #12 is a big part of the problem this year.

You know what's interesting to me? In New Orelans, Brees has a Davante-like stud as his #1 WR, Michael Thomas. All Brees other WRs & TEs are "JAG"s (Just A Guy).
His #2 WR is actually a rookie from Central Florida. Brees doesn't whine about having to rely on rookies.
He doesn't call them out for not having experience, for not knowing what to do when the play breaks down.

And Brees knows how to take the checkdowns to wide open RBs out of the backfield.

I used to say Brees was overrated compared to Rodgers because he got to play 9-12 games in domes and 3 road divisional games a year were warm weather....well Brees has been so much better than Rodgers this whole season (except the week 1 2nd half comeback vs Chicago).

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Bearmeat's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:58 am

With the admittedly large caveat of "run the table" in 2016 and several ridiculous hail mary's, Rodgers has sucked since week 8 of 2015. This is a fact. He should NEVER have gotten the contract extension that he did.

MM needs to be fired and replaced with a coach who will MAKE ARod play on schedule. This is obvious. And Gute needs to be a real GM - Murphy has to cede the power he took away from the GM position in January.

If all these things happen, I fully expect Green Bay to be back among the elite next year. If not, well, it's been a fun 25 years. The mid-80's aren't too far away.

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fastmoving's picture

November 28, 2018 at 08:30 am

I think you are more than right with AR.

But the power structure is just right and I dont think it really matters at all. No one would talk about it if they would win. But people fell better if they can name a reason. I got that.
Other than that, you can not even be sure who makes the better/right decisions. this topic is way overblown like a lot of stuff here.

If that was really a fun ride the last 25 year, and I would fully admit that (at least it was for me), than I wonder why is so much complaining and wining here since 2012? Last couple of years doesnt felt like a fun ride at all, if you read the majority of the posts here.

And since the 80`and the dark times are a long time span and not a point in time, I would say they still far away. We must have couple of long years completely out of contention before we even can start to mention this.

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badaxed's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:33 pm

"MM needs to be fired and replaced with a coach who will MAKE ARod play on schedule."

Do you actually think someone else is going to tell Rodgers what to do. LOL
He will do as he wants until the packers get sick of the prima donna and trade him.
Prima donna:( Is now often used to describe someone arrogant, vain, or just plain bitchy. Diva and prima donna have become synonomous with a show-off or a bitch, regardless of whether or not the person in question is male or female.)
Trying for the home run and holding onto the ball too long instead of a short "open" throw for a easy first down puts this fellow in that category.

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Minniman's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:08 pm

The real trick in the whole "Fire MM" equation is which replacement will be able to work best WITH Rodgers, not necessarily to subjugate him, in order to get the best out of him.

It's been commented previously here at CHTV that there's a certain stature that an experienced, elite QB should expect within an organization (partly due to the $$$ invested in them and partly because they are the leader of the team).

Sure, he's got a strong personality, but he's smart enough to realize that he needs to evolve his game now - as either in GB (hopefully) or elsewhere he's going to be working with new player groups so needs to find a way to expedite the chemistry and success....... or he'll perish

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:25 pm

You'd think he's "smart enough to realize" that- but he's defiantly telling the press he doesn't have to change a thing.

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Minniman's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:34 pm

....... Maybe he could call up Dom Capers and see how that strategy pans out?

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:00 am

"And Brees knows how to take the checkdowns to wide open RBs out of the backfield."

THIS...right here. Brees doesn't have a gun anymore, but he still works the field at all levels and forces a defense to defend the whole field. It helps that Alvin Kamara and Mark Ingram are good receivers that scare defenses, but Kamara is his real #2 receiver. He's Brees's Julian Edelman/James White.

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Thebearsstillsuck's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:48 am

Rodgers has been off. Brees looks ridiculous. But I do think scheme has a lot to do with it. Rodgers is probably at the point where he tunes out McMuffin and the easy check down stuff and feels like he needs to do the impossible every play. Because if he doesn't, every drive is full of 3 and 4 yard dink and dunk plays, and we're not talent enough to need 15 plays to score every drive. Probably also explains the fact he won't take a chance on anything with a 10 percent chance of being intercepted. Not saying it's right or excusable, but I think this scheme is in his head.

The contract is what it is. The Vikings gave Captain Kirk a pile of money, and still had plenty of money to make moves. Rodgers is going to be the number 5 paid QB in a year or 2, was probably better to sign at the current market vs after Goff and Wentz setting the new standard

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aljohn_w@yahoo.com's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:44 pm

To compare Brees to Rodgers this year is ridiculous . Brees has had far better protection , far better set of receivers including running backs. Not to mention a superior coaching staff that comes up with superior game plans to take advantage of Brees's talent . And by the way a far better defense that has given him more opportunities and better field position .It all starts at the top and the top in GB stinks .

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Jonathan Spader's picture

November 28, 2018 at 02:10 pm

The Vikings do not have a pile of money they are the 2nd worst team for cap space in 2018 while the Packers are in the middle.

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Lare's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:27 am

In looking at the graphics above, it keeps coming back to the same question- "Who is calling these plays, and why?" You would think that whoever is running things in the Packers organization would be asking the same question.

Also wondering, with the present setup of authority in the Packers organization (without having any say over contracts and the Head Coach) if another team offered Gutekunst full control of their team, wouldn't he be allowed to go as it would be considered a promotion?

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:03 am

The same kind of full control argument was used in the discussion of John Schneider in Seattle (since he shares personnel responsibilities with Pete Carroll) but the Seahawks have been able to deny him the opportunity to interview for other GM jobs. I think it's the title in and of itself that seems to matter. So my guess is that the Packers would be allowed to deny BG the opportunity to interview.

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nostradanus's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:57 am

To me and to many fans it looks like Rodgers is doing this purposely and Mike McCarthy is too classy to throw him under the bus. Maybe Mr Rodgers has an undisclosed injury, maybe its because Danika is a Bears fan or because Big Mike fired the Quarterback coach last year and he doesn't like the new guy?
Either way, Rodgers has been off all year long and has bypassed open receivers every game only to take sacks or throw the ball away.
Sometimes when a team opens Fort Knox for a player, said team paints itself into a corner.
Bottom line: Mike McCarthy is a class individual who has his team ready to play each week, only to be betrayed by an over paid Diva who apparently has an axe to grind. Rodgers (now that he's a Bucks owner, is playing like an NBA player...selfish!)
Extend McCarthy - Trade Rodgers

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:05 am

If it's really about a battle royale (with cheese) between ARod and MM, ARod knows he won by virtue of his contract: the team picked him. Which, if you're right, really makes #12 a douche.

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The TKstinator's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:30 pm

Is that because of the metric system?
What’s in the briefcase?
We happy?

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:05 pm

The WR routes show it's not Rodgers alone. It's both of them. Toxic enablers. Time for them to part ways.

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Skip greenBayless's picture

November 28, 2018 at 02:27 pm

Good stuff Nostradanus. I wonder how long before we start to hear this phrase but I guess I'll be the first for the record. We use to say this a lot in 2008 but here we are 10 years later. Is Aaron Rodgers now so powerful with this new contract that he's now "holding the team hostage"? Who has more say at this point in terms of play calling, replacing the head coach etc than Aaron Rodgers? I can't think of anyone. This is why I loved Ted Thompson. He was the ONLY person who at the time stood up to Favre after he to tried to hold the team hostage and traded his ass when he didn't get his way. Gute has a problem though. There's nobody to replace Rodgers at this time that I know of. Rodgers owns this team and it's fans and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. We lost all leverage with that stupid ass mammoth franchise killing contract.

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The TKstinator's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:31 pm

Have you abandoned Tim Boyle?

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Skip greenBayless's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:37 pm

"that I know of" I wanted too put him in there believe me TK but I decided against it because it would take away from my main points. You I knew would call me on it and you did. Nope haven't abandoned him at all. I still am going on record and saying Tim Boyle will be the next qb that takes over after Rodgers leaves thru a trade in either one or two years. Boyle, like Rodgers was when he was young, will be too good to not play shortly.

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:42 pm

Dash, I think it's really weird how I somehow can always tell by your writing style that you're the same guy who posted under an entirely different user name almost 15 years ago on a Yahoo! Packers forum. It's just intuitive. The light just comes on and I'm like, "I know that writing style."

Do you find it just as spooky as I do?
Like, do you stop dead in your tracks and think, "How does he know?!"
Just curious. BTW, I actually like reading your stuff. You've mellowed quite a bit over the last many years. Like fine wine.

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Skip greenBayless's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:51 pm

Appreciate the kind words Oppy. No, I don't find it at all spooky that you can tell my writing style. 15 years ago I was a young Aaron Rodgers on Yahoo. I was one of the best. That came with a price as you well know. When you become so good people want to bring you down. So when you get banned about a zillion times on Yahoo for sticking up for yourself and (at that time) Aaron Rodgers and Ted Thompson over Brett Favre you kind of leave yourself out there. You remember me and I remember you. I haven't actually mellowed out. I still am the same person. It's society that's changed and now you will get banned for just about anything. I have learned to type with my mouth taped shut. It's very hard but I am adapting. By the way, I remember you in 2003 when you went by the name Javert. You remember? lol

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packerbackerjim's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:01 am

Your observations are remarkably similar to mine. The aversion to the middle of the field leads me to suspect Rodgers has difficulty processing what he sees in that area. Ironically, it is something opposing QBs exploit against the D and have for years.

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packerbackerjim's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:02 am

My earlier comment was addressed to Al, if anyone was confused. My apologies.

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:43 pm

I'm totally confused, but that has nothing to do with anything that's going on here.

I'm just mostly in a daze. All of the time.

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nostradanus's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:12 am

Rodgers is seeing the field fine, he's just not taking what is there, the Graham play where Rodgers is sacked is a perfect example of what has been going on all season. Rodgers is the problem

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Bearmeat's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:59 am

I'd say Rodgers is 1/2 the problem. The other is MM's stubbornness.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:40 am

I don't get the stubbornness . I see some new wrinkles in the O every week.

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edp1959's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:08 am

The camera angle on that play is not even close to what QB is seeing. From QB perspective Graham hasn't cleared into the lane yet. The pocket is collapsing. This is just another attempt to criticize ARod.

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croatpackfan's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:03 am

Al, I know that you are not supporter of Mike McCarthy. You said it several times and your articles are obvious.

One question for you: If Aaron Rodgers is out of control, what Mike McCarthy can do? Sit him (Hello Giants!), publicly call his name (Hello Jerry Jones), try to trade him (Hello Ted Thompson, Andy Reid), beat him with power cable (Hello Adrian Peterson!), or what else?

Another question for you: If Aaron Rodgers is out of control, what Brian Gutekunst can do? Hire HC who will please Aaron Rodgers (Hello Mike Sherman)? Let Aaron Rodgers be HC and QB (for the first time in football!)? Hire Aaron Rodgers to be GM, HC and QB of the team?

What?

And there are many signs that Aaron Rodgers is out of control. SO, what to do?

I believe that is the main issue at the moment. Not MIke McCarthy. I truly believe Packers need Aaron to be team player who will do the job he is paid for. If not, there is wasted money (less important) and wasted salary cap (jikes!)...

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nostradanus's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:07 am

Well said croat, well said indeed

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pacman's picture

November 28, 2018 at 08:42 am

Unless you think AR wants to lose, then you sit him down and talk to him about it and work together. Obviously this isn't happening. If AR doesn't want to listen to anyone, then he has to go. But my guess is that these complaints have been going on for so long and that AR is aware of them but nobody is able to get through to him. So that is all on the coaching. It's about handling players. MM - if you can't figure out how to use timeouts or work with your QB, what are you doing being a HC?

As far as fans go, I would appreciate if some of the reporters ask him these things directly as I would like to hear what AR says about not using the middle of the field/slants, getting ball out quicker, etc. Certainly when you are down 2 only 2 good offensive linemen and he is still holding the ball looking for Adams! Two weeks in a row throwing an important play ball into the dirt!

Did anybody else notice that the passes to the right sidelines were SO much more successful than to the left?

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 08:57 am

Croat, I never said AR is out of control, so I can't answer your questions. that is your opinion.

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croatpackfan's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:16 am

Fair answer, Al!

But with that answer you are saying that all is good how Aaron Rodgers play and act? It is all on Mike McCarthy's shoulders? All those mistakes. As far as I remember Aaron Rodgers spare TO on his will, paying no attention that can cost the team later. And Mike McCarthy is guilty? As far as I remember he is the one who is missing completely free check down receivers (even for TD) or throwing bad balls to open receivers in end zone or throwing ball to the ground in the front of WR who is in the position to win 1st down. That is on MIke McCarthy?

That would be strange...

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:26 am

But the team has chosen #12. Management has decided through QB1's enormous contract that he's the winner of any MM/ARod feud that might or might not be happening in the open and behind closed doors. ARod knows this, too. How can he not? Maybe he's been emboldened by it. Whether we feel MM is to blame for the play of this team or ARod is, we know how this out of necessity will end.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:43 pm

Croat, I've pointed out plenty of issues with Rodgers. The video I posted in my article is just a recent example. So I don't absolve Rodgers of blame at all. But you said Rodgers is "out of control." Those are your words which I don't agree with.

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croatpackfan's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:28 pm

OK! It was not my intention to put any words in your mouth.

I just said that questions I asked you should be taken in the consideration when we are talking about Mike McCarthy's responsibility for bad results. That is all!

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:14 am

"If Aaron Rodgers is out of control, what Mike McCarthy can do? Sit him (Hello Giants!), publicly call his name (Hello Jerry Jones),..."

This is the point they're at, yes. At this point, IF #12 isn't listening and MM wants ARod to play at his best, he's going to have to shame him and put the chip back on his shoulder. It will probably permanently ruin their relationship (assuming it's still salvageable as is), but MM has to know there's blood in the water with his HC position.

When the offense bogs down in the 2nd quarter against Arizona on Sunday (and it will, because it always does), he should put #12 on the bench and give Kizer the remainder of the half. Do I think Kizer will play better? No, probably not. I don't think he'll be much worse, either. But there's the message he needs to send. If Kizer goes out, takes the dumpoffs and moves the team down the field, it puts ARod on notice. It's a last-ditch, rescue the offense, send a pointed message kind of move.

I'm not asserting that #12 shouldn't be the QB...but I'm asserting that MM needs to make a bold statement, which he has been reluctant to do so far. He might not benefit from it, but the next Packers HC and the Packers in general will.

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croatpackfan's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:20 am

Dobber, when you'll see Mike McCarthy pull Aaron from the game in the 2nd quarter I will tell you that Mike McCarthy will resign at the end of the season.

It is interesting how people do not want to listen to former Packers' players who are not spitting on Mike McCarthy. For them Greg Jennings became real authority about Packers issues...

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:38 am

I don't disagree with you on Jones and others, but those are players who are gone.

You're absolutely right: MM making that play on #12 is making sure he's coaching somewhere else in 2019. I would argue that it's both a very brave move by MM, but potentially one that risks very little. At this stage, it might be a very important play to make...and a very important message for #12 to get.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:02 am

I agree, we dissect every little mistake and look to blame MM for everything that has gone wrong. Rogers started all this negativity towards MM with his insinuating remarks. I look around the league and see winning coaches making many more bone headed mistakes than MM, but their players bail them out. Lets face facts, fumbles by veteran players, Rogers' puzzling decisions to not take what the defenses give him, and injuries have derailed this season. Yet, we were in every game right down to the last minute.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:47 pm

" I look around the league and see winning coaches making many more bone headed mistakes than MM, but their players bail them out."

Well, at least you admit McCarthy makes bone-headed mistake.s Rodgers has always bailed him out. Not this year. Let's get Rodgers a new guy to work with and see if things change for the better, because the stagnation we see is real.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:19 pm

Rodgers is 35 and on the downside. McCarthy will still be coaching, successfully, in this league after Rodgers is finished.

If the plays were so bad, we wouldn't be a top ten offense in yardage.

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Free agent's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:29 pm

Agree Al... so stale, and now mold is forming.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:44 pm

I don't know if I'd revoke his starter status in some stunt the way the Giants did. But if I was MM I would tell AR the consequence for playing out of the game plan is he will be on the bench for a play to start the game. And when everyone asks he can explain why.

It's too late anyway

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Chad Lundberg's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:12 pm

I'm sorry, but a coach that takes his foot off the pedal with 5 minutes remaining against the Seattle Seahacks, and endorses a culture of respect instead of going for the Jugular when he had the chance is a big part of the problem in my mind. He's gotta go. If Rodgers really is out of control as you say, it could be because he simply doesn't respect his coach's decision making any more. I've grown tired of Mike's antics. Enough is enough.

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Nick Perry's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:06 am

Once again Al points out a reason why I'm screaming at my TV every game this season before every halftime this year after week 2. The FIRST thing I look for is if #33 is in the backfield on almost every play and every series. When I saw Williams in the backfield on Sunday Night and the 3 and out followed, to keep from crying I actually laughed. I mean has McCarthy really become that clueless when it comes to the what's working, flow of the game, and stats from the ENTIRE season? Hey Williams is a nice player to have on our roster but Jones has more talent in his pinky than Williams yet McCarthy does this every week. On that pretty colored playsheet does he look for the formations that say "We've scored 14 points using Aaron Jones, what can I call to put it to a screeching halt". I mean seriously??

I actually was thinking about McCarthy Monday morning. His time in GB will be coming to an end for sure. I'd almost wish they would fire him now so he doesn't have to endure 5 more weeks of constant criticism. The man has a family who have to hear and read all the things being said about him right now. Fact is the man was the PERFECT HC for the Packers when then hired him before the 2006 season and remained that all the way up to that 2014 NFCCG. I understand keeping him past that but THAT was the beginning of the end. The man coached us to a SB45 victory as the 6th seed. For that I'll always love McCarthy. But like many sports franchises that win a Championship, the Packers have held on to long. Time to let Mike go...Why continue to let the man trash the good he did do early in his career. IT IS TIME...

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Bearmeat's picture

November 28, 2018 at 08:05 am

It's no sure thing that MM is gone, unfortunately.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:16 am

Williams had one carry the whole game . Defenses adjust and our whole offensive line was banged up which led to Jones being stuffed on most of his carries in the second half. However, I remember Rogers not throwing a dump off to Jones which would of led to a certain first down. Lets blame MM for that . I wish I could go back and count how many first downs were squandered by Rogers looking for the big play instead of taking what was given in the last few games.

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The TKstinator's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:49 pm

Would have

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:14 am

Nick while I agree it is probably time to move on from MM should the Saints have moved on from Sean Payton when they went 7-9 for 3 seasons in a row? And if so where might they be now?

Keeping MM doesn’t guarantee anything but neither does chucking him. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Thanks, Since ‘61

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:21 am

The counter argument is that you can sit on MM forever hoping that he'll have a Sean-Paytonesque renaissance, but it may never happen. Most teams don't feel that they can wait on that...but maybe those resurgences would happen more often if teams did.

"Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. "

Well said.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 02:47 pm

Dobber - true most teams can't sit and wait forever. 108 head coaches have been hired since MM was hired by the Packers in 2006. Since NE, Pitt, Cincy, NO and the Packers have had the same head coach since 2006, that means that 27 teams have hired an average of just under 4 head coaches per team over a 13 year period with an average tenure of just over 3 years.
That is a carousel that I hope the Packers can avoid getting on. But when you look at the recent history for NFL head coaches the trend is not good.

The numbers will only increase at the end of this season and likely include MM. Thanks, Since '61

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Barazinho's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:06 pm

I think there's a difference.
During Payton's 7-9 seasons, the problem was the defense, and he is an offensive minded coach.
With McCarthy - especially this year - the problem is the offense, and he is supposed to be an offensive minded coach. In the past few seasons, the problem as been primarily the defense, which means McCarthy got more leeway. With the defense improving this year, the offensive problems are exposed.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:19 pm

nail, meet head.

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Packer_Fan's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:28 am

So, I want the Packers to make the playoffs and make a run for the Super Bowl. Most likely that will not happen. For the Packers at this point are not a winning team. I want McCarthy fired now, but that is unlikely to happen until the end of the season. Is Rodgers hurt or is his head no longer in the game, or is he loosing his capability. Should we let McCarthy have this year as grace and give him one more chance? Looking at Pittsburgh and New Orleans, Tomlin and Payton went through stretches/years of poor performance. Murphy will have to take a long look at this year and choose the best path for the Pack. To right the bad performance, to get Rodgers recharged and lead the team back to a top level team.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:17 am

Add Reid to that list.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:28 am

Brian Bulaga - It maybe time to move on but I don't move on until I have a better option.

Early success - I don't get it. Almost every game they come out with a great game plan and somewhere in the 2nd/3rd quarter, they get away from it and fall apart.

Alexander - STUD!!!! It can't be said enough but Gutekunst absolutely NAILED his first pick. Oh and he got another first round pick to go with Alexander. IMPRESSIVE!!!

Timeouts - I honestly didn't have any issues with the timeouts being used in the first half.

Offensive rhythm - I don't get this need to play RB's by series. Can't they do it more situational? Have Williams be their short yardage guy and rotate in?

McCarthy - It maybe time to move on. I found it interesting though listening to one of his former players James Jones talk about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1gJFSnxYeA

All I can say for all the people that want McCarthy gone (i'm not in either crowd that wants him gone or wants him to stay), but I hope for the people that want him gone that we don't end up with the next Chip Kelly. Just as James Jones talks, the grass isn't always greener. Changing Head Coaches doesn't automatically mean we get better.

What will make us better is better personnel. Having the 2 rookie WR's getting a lot of reps this year will help them next year. Also Graham will be in his 2nd year with Rodgers.
Having a defense in its 2nd year will help. Alexander, Jackson, Burks won't be rookies anymore.
A big year drafting could change a lot as well, and we have a GM who is willing to use FA.
If we get better pass rushers our defense will be drastically better. If we get new Safety's our D is better. Having experienced WR's will help. Right now we are basically playing with 2 rookies. Look at how much Jones improved in his 2nd year. If MVS and EQ improve that much next year we are looking at a whole new offense.
Also Rodgers should be more trusting of them next year.

Scheme - Scheme really isn't the problem. Rodgers doesn't trust his eyes, his players, his arm/body, something...

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:26 am

Excellent job getting that clip, but unfortunately the die has been cast.

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RCPackerFan's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:18 pm

Has it?

I mean do we know for sure?

None of us are in there to know for sure. Maybe they are looking at things differently. Just because all of Packer Fans are ranting about it doesn't mean it will actually happen.

I think its highly likely to happen, but doesn't mean its set in stone.

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jh9's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:41 am

I don't care what the sport is. Show me a HC who can't control his/her star players, and I'll you a HC that isn't doing their most important job.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 28, 2018 at 02:33 pm

+100

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Lare's picture

November 28, 2018 at 02:50 pm

Although I think it's time for McCarthy to move on, I also respect him for how he's handled Rodgers in the media. Despite Rodgers many veiled criticisms, McCarthy has steadfastly accepted blame himself and diverted blame on Rodgers.

You never win when you stoop to treating others the way they are treating you.

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Razer's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:52 am

No question that Aaron Rodgers is not playing well. Doesn't matter who is coaching if your engine is misfiring like this.

BUT it is hard to see this team with McCarthy as coach next year. While I don't like this type of change, I can't defend McCarthy. He has failed to develop a run game over the last decade. Even when he has the horses, he doesn't know how to use them. He doesn't know how to use a TE. We have 4 on the game day roster and they are basically useless.

Ultimately, this team keeps doing what it has been doing for the last 10 years and the league is moving past us and while this isn't all at McCarthy's feet - he does design and call the offense that isn't working.

To be fair, Gutekunst will need two great drafts and some killer off season signings to get this ship refitted with better equipment.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:33 am

Two drafts to refit ,but its the play calling and scheme that is the problem. Is this Orwell's double speak. LOL

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:09 am

If McCarthy truly is the problem, it shouldn't take two drafts, right? A change in culture and scheme--assuming they hit it right--should mean this team shoots out of the gate in 2019 or at least LOOKS like an improving team throughout 2019.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:23 pm

Changing Head Coaches is going to set off some dominoes.

We'll get a new DC....our third in three years. Rodgers, at 35, will be asked to embrace a new system by a new coach . If he's asked to stay in the pocket and dink and dunk, he might have a problem with that....he does most of his damage outside the pocket.

And he'll keep getting older. 37-38-39. Now, we could go ahead and draft his replacement...…..I know that Favre didn't appreciate it very much when we drafted his replacement......but I'm sure it'll all work out perfectly.

The Law Of Unintended Consequences. Replacing McCarthy is going to change a lot of things. Not all of them good or bad.

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Lare's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:39 pm

So it's better to just continue with losing seasons?

McCarthy's offensive scheme doesn't work, even after hiring a new OC and QB coach. How is keeping him as HC going to make it better?

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Guam's picture

November 28, 2018 at 08:09 am

I am not prepared to move on from Bulaga. He is still an adequate RT and we have bigger problems on the O-line, like RG and depth everywhere.

I have joined the "dump McCarthy" bandwagon even though I believe QB1 is a significant part of the problem. The fact that MM can't fix the obvious on-field issues (example: ignoring the middle of the field) tells me that the communications between HC and QB1 aren't working anymore. I think too many players including QB1 have tuned MM out. It happens to long tenured coaches and it is time to move on.

I believe McCarthy will be successful again elsewhere a la Andy Reid in KC, but I think his time in Green Bay is done.

Lare: I may be a Pack-eyed optomist but I think Gute's heart is in Green Bay and he would not be interested in a promotion to a full GM elsewhere (at least not yet). I just hope Murphy figures out his organizational screw up and and promotes Gute to the full GM position he deserves in Green Bay.

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:18 am

Bulaga, like any RT, will look much better when playing next to a decent RG.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:38 am

Did anyone look at film before signing Bell ?

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:10 am

They didn't sign him to be the starter, though, right? They were planning on McCray being the starer. Bell's a guy who could play 3 and maybe 4 positions on the OL. Pretty valuable commodity on game day, but nobody wants to need to use OL backups...

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:47 pm

They also drafted a backup guard. Bell was an insurance policy.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:24 pm

According to ProFootballFocus,, Bulaga is having a pretty good year.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:37 am

Only one player , Rogers. I believe rest of team is playing hard.

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Handsback's picture

November 28, 2018 at 08:17 am

LOFT and execution are the two issues I see with the current Packer team. LOFT, well that goes back to TT and leaving the roster thin and without play makers. So fire MM for that seems silly. Why are the Packers not executing? This I don't know, and would like to hear why from others. I haven't watch a whole game live, but have recorded them and some of the mistakes are STUPID! Rodgers has his fair share in many cases, but even the new golden boy, Aaron Jones misses running lanes or doesn't run the route right in a game. To me this team has gotten old, and inexperienced at the same time. Bulaga is essentially too banged up to be a really good OT. The guards are inexperienced and may fall into the LOFT category. Bak is banged up, but there's nobody to help out on that Oline.
Play maker receivers....down to one. Talent is there, kudos to Gutsy, but very inexperienced. A lot of rounded routes by them and the TEs. If there is one aspect that I blame the coaching staff on is the middle of the field. As Jersey Al stated...they aren't using it and have no idea why.

So yeah, grab a pitchfork and run MM out of town for the lack of execution and not using the middle of the field. Then get ready to waste the next two years of Arod's career learning a new system with the few experienced weapons he has while waiting for the young WRs to develop. Good luck with that!

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stockholder's picture

November 28, 2018 at 08:19 am

I hope you and the cheesehead Tv staff can write something good about Mike MCarthy and not make this so personal. Pouring gasoline on a fire because you think you know whats best, isn't helping this team. Have you ever played for Mike? Do you have any writer that sat in the room with players. ( And watched film and listen to MMs game plan? ) Maybe you should go behind the TV. James Jones still speaks highly of the coach, and the situation. Negative Criticism never is productive. I've read your opinions on players over the years that you just plain missed! (Draft). And many situations that changed from bad to good. MM still can change this team into a winner.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:04 am

When I got the email notification with this comment (it doesn't tell me who it's from) I knew immediately it was you. You have been the staunchest McCarthy defender on here and I give you credit for that. I just happen to completely disagree with you.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:26 am

So, if McCarthy is fired and goes elsewhere and has success, but Aaron Rodgers never wins another playoff game,...….is that going to change anybody's opinion?

Aaron Rodgers became our starting QB at 25 and was in the Super Bowl at 27. He won the MVP at 28, and again in 2014 when we went to the NFC Championship game. He was 31. Two years later he had the finest run at QB I've ever seen in the second half of the 2016 season and we were in the NFC Championship game, again.

So ARod has been one of the very top guys in the league from 27 until he was 33. That's a pretty impressive stretch at the top of the pile.

But he missed much of the 2017 season with a broken collarbone. He injured his leg in the 2018 opener and it affected his play. He's 35 now. Depending on the rating system, he's 10th or lower among NFL QBs this year.

He's not the guy he was in 2016. He's throwing off his back foot more often. He's getting caught trying to escape from the pocket more often. The drive-killing sacks are adding up.

What does this have to do with McCarthy? Thompson, McCarthy, and Rodgers were the change back in 2005/2006. Now, Thompson is gone and McCarthy is headed out the door, but nobody wants to talk about the third leg of this.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:40 am

What it has to do with McCarthy is that his tenure in GB has lasted this long because Rodgers has repeatedly bailed out the team and McCarthy when they got themselves in bad situations. Now that Rodgers is not playing at that level, for whatever reason, the curtain has been pulled back and the weakness exposed.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:53 am

Where would Reid be without Mahomes and Payton without Brees. Kyle Shanahan was a genius last year, this year without Garoppolo they're horrendous. At least last season with Hundley ( who couldn't break a pane of glass) we won a few games and were competitive in some.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:26 pm

Oh please......So it's Rodgers fault when the Packers play well, and McCarthy's fault when they don't??? Seriously??

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:06 am

"So, if McCarthy is fired and goes elsewhere and has success, but Aaron Rodgers never wins another playoff game,...….is that going to change anybody's opinion?"

That's a "5 years down the road looking back" argument. The team doesn't have the benefit of living that way: it has to live in the now and make decisions based on what it sees, knows and believes now. BG is hopefully working behind the Green curtain at 1265 and compiling as much information as possible about each person involved in prepping for some very important off-season decisions.

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Rebecca's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:21 pm

Rodgers is 34. Born December 2, 1983. Today is November 28, 2018. Aaron Goat Rodgers will be 35 on Sunday, December 2, 2018. Picky, picky. LOL

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:11 am

The middle of the field is where the most INTs occur.

Rodgers is overly concerned about INTs.

Rodgers does not throw to the middle of the field.

Rodgers limits the offense because he's hyper-fearful of throwing an INT.

I hate to be that guy.. I've been pointing this out for almost 4 years running. Rodgers is supremely talented, and yet he's become wary of using his skills, more and more, every year. He does LESS with the talent around him than any other top tier QB in the league, and it's due to his resistance to throwing the ball in areas and situations that nearly all other NFL QBs do.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:56 am

I disagree, he's been great, except this year.

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:26 pm

Maybe you missed the 18 game stretch of "meh" to "That's not good" he put down a few years ago... and he's been avoiding the middle of the field since 2011... and he has that whole "I don't like to throw to new targets I don't trust" thing.

I'm doubling down. No top tier QB does less with the talent around him than Aaron Rodgers.

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:13 am

MM has many plays, in every game this season, where receivers are open...read a book open and open to what Rodgers once considered all alone as open in the past.

Is MM not throwing the ball...no, Rodgers is not throwing the ball.

Some offer up the stat sheet, the vindicator,for Rodgers play, by boasting how he still ranks here or there in the top ten. That's awesome for Fantasy but Rodgers stat sheet doesn't have the Packers in the top ten of wins,playoffs but a seat on the couch watching others again.

Rodgers has lost what he values most in his receivers...trust in himself...but it could also be his disdain for MM and Rodgers is doing enough to maintain a level of play to not blame him entirely.

As he was a master of deception/big play on the field once, he now uses the lack of both, to be rid of MM and a middle finger to fans and there hopes for a SB.

Any new HC better beware the Rodgers effect...Rodgers seems to have become a his way or no way and I'm not sure Rodgers first point of order is the team, but his legacy and he can save whats left of it.

Brees has the records...Brady has the Rings and Rodgers has few INT's....awesome for us right!?

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:02 am

Absolutely, it's a shame because we're close to having a good defense , the main issue that has hampered us in the post SB years.

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packerbackerjim's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:24 am

Have you ever considered proofreading before you post?

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:30 am

You mean, like, off the label of a bottle? I wouldn't post without it!

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:54 am

Not really...I only comment..I'm not writing an article. Besides, if I did, what would you do if not proofreading me? Just trying to help fill your day and hope to continue for your benefit.
: )

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packerbackerjim's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:07 pm

I’m sure comments sound well in your head, but they don’t translate well to text. Some judicious editing may helpful to convey your intent.

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Lare's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:13 pm

"may be helpful".

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packerbackerjim's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:50 pm

Oops! Should have proofread before posting.

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:17 pm

What if I comment, you read it and then post an judicious edited version of it and I'll give it a thumbs up...or post your gmail and I'll send you my comments for edit and I'll post the corrected version. I warn you though, this is a non paying participation role, but it shouldn't matter since you seem to do it for free anyways... or you can simply remain the little nitpicker you wish to be....either way...I couldn't care less...don't read my comments.
: )

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packerbackerjim's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:21 pm

Insouciance, thy name is Taryn.

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:34 pm

Yes, there are some things I have a lack of concern for and you telling me i should care is one.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:49 pm

Ok, so she got a bit emotional while typing. Thats understandable during this frustrating season. However, I had no trouble understanding what she meant. picky, picky

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Oppy's picture

November 29, 2018 at 09:03 pm

I don't think Rodgers is/would ever intentionally play poorly with the intent to "be rid of MM and (give) a middle finger to the fans", but I definitely think he may have developed the kind of hubris where he's so sure he doesn't have to change, practice, execute differently, or perhaps, that he doesn't have to run the offense as designed because he knows better than the head coach/OC/ etc, that he truly believes he is, always has, and always will do what's best for the team, and he doesn't need to change a thing.

Hell, he already said that about the plays they run when he was asked about MM retooling the offense (Why? The offense is just fine) and now he's telling us there's nothing wrong with his fundamentals, so he doesn't have to change that either (Clearly.. there is). He's also fond of telling everyone he doesn't need to play in the preseason to be ready for the regular season (this year and the year he went into the big slump were both years he played almost no snaps in preseason, both years he was adamant to reporters he doesn't need to.) This year, after his knee injury, when he finally practiced on a wednesday and then played better in the following game, reporters asked him how much value practice held for his improved performance. Aaron was almost defiant in tone when he said practicing didn't make any difference.

I think it's ego, not devious intent, that is on display here. I've said it before, I'll say it again- Rodgers started believing his own hype a number of years ago. I still think he's the most talented QB in the league. But I believe he's taken a number of mis-steps recently in how he approaches the game. Guys like Michael Jordan put in the grind excessively even while they were unchallenged as the best in their sport because they believed it was what kept them on top. I don't think Rodgers shares that approach at this point.

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Rick1's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:18 am

Interesting thing is the packers are working out players. Gutekunst is always grabbing a new guy for the roster or practice squad. They haven’t said it publicly but I believe they will have 15-20 new faces next year. I think MM had his way with the roster at the start of the year. Now Gutekunst is building his roster. They have cut guys and traded players and filled in because of injuries. I think this will benefit them because he gets to get players that fit his vision.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:04 am

I hope your right because right now this draft doesn't sparkle.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:23 pm

every team brings in players for workouts every week, so that's not an indicator of anything special. But I do believe there will be a lot of new faces next season.

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egbertsouse's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:32 am

I've been calling for the ouster of MM since the 2014 championship game. Now, I don't think that would be enough. This organization is completely broken. The BOD should fire Alfred E. "What, me worry?" Murphy and hire a new president that knows football and has no ties to the Packers during the Uncle Ted era. The new President will hopefully clean house from top to bottom and instill a new culture. I could defend this position with 20 paragraphs of facts but it wouldn't convince the optimists and the pessimists are already there. Anyway, I hate those long posts so I won't subject anyone to that. Let the dislikes begin!

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:52 pm

You don't think Mark Murphy knows football?
He's an NFL veteran of 7 years who played in two super bowls and was the league leader in INTs one year.
He had 15 years of NCAA D1 sports administration before coming to the Packers.

There's room for you to dislike the job he's done, but I don't think you can claim he doesn't know football.

Just to point out, Bob Harlan was the guy who decided that the President should really stay out of football decisions outside of hiring the GM. It's been a good move for the Packers. It cleaned up a huge mess and is a fundamental part of why the Packers have been competitive for nearly the last 30 years. Because of this, I'm perfectly fine with a President doing business stuff and letting the GM do football stuff. If anything, I'm not thrilled that Murphy has taken it upon himself to claim he's going to fire the HC, not the GM.

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Lare's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:57 am

All I know is that this whole situation would be a lot easier if they just hadn't signed Rodgers to that huge contract extension.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:52 am

So you are saying that if they didn’t extend Rodgers he would be playing better? The Packers didn’t extend Rodgers just to give him more money. They extended him because he is literally the only player on the roster who fans pay money to watch.

Who else on this team would you pay to watch if you were the fan of a road team the Packers were visiting? How many Packer fans would go to watch Packer road games if this roster did not include Rodgers? Packer fans travel well but that is because they have been a winning franchise since 1992. Back in the 70s and 80s I could count the number of Packer jerseys in the stands when I attended one of their road games, usually on the east coast.

Rodgers is extended because he generates revenue, for the Packers, the opponents and the league. End of story.
Rodgers is also the last, best hope this team has for an SB in the short to mid-term future. There isn’t any QB tree out there to go pick another Rodgers off of. Thanks, Since ‘61

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dobber's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:00 pm

"Rodgers is extended because he generates revenue, for the Packers, the opponents and the league. End of story.
Rodgers is also the last, best hope this team has for an SB in the short to mid-term future. "

Preach!

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Tarynfor12's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:07 pm

I think Rodgers getting that contract did make him more deliberate in his intentions to undermine MM.
Not getting the contract may have held him in check toward MM and even be more concentrated on what's happening on the field with a lot being on him.
Does Rodgers seem to be trying to be just good enough to deflect blame.
Should Rodgers ever of had to ' play ' for his next contract or was he automatically getting what he wanted..which appears to have been the case.
Perhaps holding off on the contract would have shed more light on what Rodgers is or what he's become based on recent play and his HC issue this season and next.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:40 pm

By any reasonable measure Rodgers had earned his next contract. It was the Packers who chose when and how much to offer as an extension.

Quite frankly I believe this whole Rodgers/MM controversy has been blown completely out of proportion by the inept Green Bay media looking to create a story and/or place blame on someone for what has become a disappointing season. If they would actually ask real questions to MM and AR they might just be able to report on what is actually happening as opposed to making this crap up as they did in 2016 when they made up a rift between Rodgers and MM. The team was 4-6, Rodgers defended his HC and their relationship. Then the team ran the table and went 8-0 and the rift was gone.

If the contract is an issue I believe it is Rodgers trying too hard to live up to it. The reality I see is that this team is just not that good.

Let's look at some obvious weaknesses/problems with the 2018 Packers.

Offense: Weak right side of the starting OL. Both Guards are weak. Depth is putrid. Result: Porous OL in pass and run blocking.

WRs: After Adams no serious threat exists for the defense to be afraid of. Rodgers would be better with Cobb and Allison. The rookies are playing well for rookies but they still play like rookies.
TEs: Graham has been a big disappointment so far. Behind him nothing for the defense to worry about.
RBs: Jones a good back but does he scares opposing defenses. No. Can he take over a game and keep the ball away from the opponents offense? NO. Part of that is on the quality of the OL, BTW.

Defense: DL, good but inconsistent especially on penetration into the opponents backfield. Pass rush, some good numbers but not when they matter most, which would be when the Packers have a lead and/or in the 4th quarter. OLBs, mediocre on their best days. ILBs, only one on the team at this time. CBs, could be a strength of the team if King could stay healthy. Safety, Tramon Williams hanging on by his fingertips, after that nothing.

Special Teams: Stupid fumbles, missed FGs, blocked punt and consistently penalized.

Yet, with all of the above, some of which we recognized before the season began, Rodger is supposed to overcome all of that!!?? Why, because he received a contract extension. He is basically playing with one legit NFL WR, an old and slow TE and one decent NFL RB behind an OL which collapses on nearly every play run or pass.

A defense which looks improved but really has no way to consistently attack the QB and who can't stop an opponent with a good ground game and the get the ball back for the offense.

Then we have the Special Teams which have hurt the team in just about every way that they can.

Yet all of this is Rodgers fault or MMs!!! This is fans and media not knowing or understanding what they are watching. Why? Because some don't know the difference because they have become fans since 1992. Others because they think the media knows what they are talking about but the media is only interested in ratings and each network just tries to scream at us louder than their competitors because for some reason they believe that is what we want. Then there are the Madden people who have manipulated the game to make themselves look brilliant but haven't figured out that Madden is a toy made to make the manufacturer rich but that has nothing to do with the real world and the FFL people who have Rodgers on their team and so it goes.

Does anyone think that it would be nice to have another player or 2 or more who can actually make a play besides Rodgers. Wouldn't it be nice to have a defensive player who could take over a game so that the offense doesn't need to score 30+ points to win. An Oline that can actually block at the point of attack so that we can make a first down with only inches to go. Special Teams that don't turn big returns into poor field position with stupid penalties. No, lets just blame Rodgers for everything.

Taryn, you know this better than me and most others here, the line on a Packers game only moves if Rodgers is out. It hasn't moved much because Daniels is out or if Graham or even Jones or Bulaga were out. Yet if Rodgers is out the line will move by as much as 7 to 10 points depending on if we are home or away. Why? Because he is the only player that matters on the Packers. Sad that only Vegas can see it but no one else can. Thanks, Since '61

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:50 pm

"If they would actually ask real questions to MM and AR"

That would be great, but McGinn tried that and got ****blocked".

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:27 pm

Ridiculous isn't it? Thanks, Since '61

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:59 pm

"Yet if Rodgers is out the line will move by as much as 7 to 10 points depending on if we are home or away. Why? Because he is the only player that matters on the Packers. Sad that only Vegas can see it but no one else can."

No, it's because people who place the bets perceive Rodgers to be the only player that matters on the Packers.

I know many don't believe it, but Vegas doesn't set lines based on predicted outcomes, they set lines to sway how the public places the money. It's about public perception and enticing the even money. If anything, the lines should be viewed as a reflection of betting gambler's beliefs, not necessarily accurate predictions of outcomes. This is where LVT jumps in and tells me I'm foolish. :)

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:04 pm

Oppy there is no question that the line is there to get to people to bet. Whether it is due to gamblers perception or another cause the line for the Packers moves significantly when Rodgers is out. As for predictions of outcomes LVT is correct, Vegas never loses. Thanks, Since '61

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:21 pm

Vegas never loses because modern vegas doesn't gamble. They shift the lines to draw equal money and make billions on the sure thing- the juice.

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Since'61's picture

November 29, 2018 at 08:33 am

Absolutely, no different than most large corporations. Thanks, Since ‘61

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buddrow53's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:30 pm

I agree, not knowing what is going on, maybe we are seeing the real AR.

Maybe his brother has a good idea what we are now seeing.

I still think AR is pizzed about personel decisions. Just seems he pouts more than ever.

I was one for not signing him to a long term contract, let him play out his contract and franchise him and decide then.

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:11 am

Remember the quality of depth the Packers had on both sides off the ball in 2010, a very injury riddled season. Fast forward to the present day. Murphy did this team no favors keeping Ted as long as he did. There is no quality depth .Your drafts from '15 '16 '17 should be producing now.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:20 am

Bakhtiari-4th round , Adams-2nd round, Martinez -4th round, Kenny Clark. Not great, but not too shabby. Look around the league few if none were better.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:11 pm

Bak is the only player left on the team from the 2013 draft
Adams & Linsley are all that is left from 2014
Jake Ryan is the only player left from 2015 and he is on IR.

That is 4 players out of 28 drafted 2013 - 2015. To me this is a an F grade for these 3 drafts. I honestly don't know about other teams but 4 players left out of 28 drafted within 5 seasons doesn't qualify as one of the few with none better. Not for me anyway.

2016 - looks good so far. All 7 players are still on the team. Clark, Martinez and Lowry are making contributions. Murphy on IR. Spriggs, Fackrell and Davis have been marginal contributors so far. Looks like a solid draft.

4 of our 10 2017 picks are already gone including Vince Beigel. A. Jones, J. Jones, J. Williams and M. Adams are contributing. King is hurt and Yancey is on the PS. Jury still out for 2017

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LeotisHarris's picture

November 28, 2018 at 10:16 am

Always appreciate your thoughts and perspective, Al. I know you wear many hats here, but please at least consider adding an additional piece each week.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:53 pm

Thanks. I'd love to, but right now abundant free time is not my friend.

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Denise Chanterelle's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:15 am

Well written article Al. Yes, it's time for MM to move on. We all know the playoffs are a pipe-dream now and really the choice is coming down to MM or Rodgers. They no longer are on the same page for whatever reason. Rodgers sullen-attitude on the sideline says it all.

As much as Rodgers play this season is suspect, we're married to this guy because of that huge contract. The only way out is if he retires? That scenario is highly unlikely because he wants the money, so here we are. Hopefully, Rodgers play this season is an aberration and a new coach will reinvigorate him. Time will tell. Thank you.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 11:37 am

What I don’t understand is what is going on with AR and why it is continuing? If he was making poor throws I could point to his injuries but he still makes deep, accurate throws like the TD pass to Tonyan in Seattle. He still makes some perfect deep sideline throws. This tells me he is at least 80% or more physically OK.

Why he isn’t throwing to obvious open receivers is the question. I would think that with all the coaches on this team someone would ask him what is going on. I would not care if it is a defensive coach someone needs to get at the root cause of this issue because it is hurting the team.

A few games early in the season is one thing but 11 games in is scary. To me this is the biggest indictment of our offensive coaching staff. Our best player is making mistakes and using poor judgement and no one steps up to help him. This whole situation sounds very dysfunctional to me.

While I believe this issue needs to be handled by the team can anyone in the media ask Rodgers the question, “why aren’t you throwing to the open receivers?” Why are they here if they can’t get some actual, usable information for the fans?

Someone needs to figure this out or it will actually get worse over time with a new coach or not and whether or not we get better players on the offense. Thanks, Since ‘61

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Cartwright's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:54 pm

'61 since Rodgers isn't answering that question I would like to answer it for him by putting myself in his shoes... "it's because I'm getting slammed every other play, my body, knee and collarbone can only take so much so I'm chucking it downfield to the get the series over with and save my body from all that punishment, long drives be damned. The coach is only going to call another pass play anyway."
Never mind the rookies, he just doesn't trust his OLine that's why he keeps heaving it upfield and ignoring the short stuff. He isn't trying to undermine his coach, it's called self preservation.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:12 pm

That is a possibility which I have considered but I hope that it is not true.
Thanks, Since '61

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Oppy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 07:12 pm

If you don't trust your OL, why would you want to waste time looking for the deep ball? You wouldn't, you'd want to get rid of the rock ASAP.

I'm not saying Rodgers line has been good- the right side is in big trouble lately with Bell and Bulaga not playing well- but a QB with a shit line should be getting rid of the ball faster, not slower.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 09:05 pm

Exactly, I agree. Thanks, Since '61

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PatrickGB's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:01 pm

61, I read somewhere (forgot where) that Rodgers used to be able to throw well from any angle and with poor footwork. Not so much any more. Perhaps age and injury has caught up to him. Or perhaps it’s what he means when he talks about himself and his need to play better.
I kind of liked his old QB coach, so did Aaron.

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nostradanus's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:02 pm

Good point Since 61, it is quite obvious that Mr Rodgers is passing up the short easy throw in which he either tries to run, throws it out of bounds or holds the ball and takes a sack.
A leaky offensive line can be patched over with the short pass.
We see it, the coaches see it, he see's it.
This is a major problem and it seems Mr Rodgers is trying to prove a point or make a statement, I'm not quite sure why? Very confusing indeed.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:15 pm

It is confusing for us as fans, but our coaches should be able to figure it out and help out Rodgers and the team get beyond this. Thanks, Since '61

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Tundraboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:03 pm

"But hey, he’ll still have a street named after him in town (something that has always irked me, but let's move on)."

This always seemed wrong. MM. He was a good coach but certainly not the legend that deserves a street title. Same with Holmgren and he was far better,but that was somewhat of an exception, as he did help end a 30-year drought. McCarthy Way just cheapened the whole idea. Unless you view Titletown as a shopping district.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:03 pm

2 Championships since 1967! Maybe someone should reconsider that name. Occasional Titletown seems more accurate.

As for Holmgren, he not only ended the drought he was an excellent football coach. He was better than MM and his team was much better on both sides of the ball than MMs, except for Rodgers. From ‘95 to ‘98 his teams were 48-16.
Plus three consecutive NFCCGs, going 2-1 with an SB victory. MM has never had 4 consecutive seasons like that. He has been very consistent but only one season (2007) with 12+ wins (13) with Favre of all things.

Holmgren’s team (95-98) would obliterate any of MMS teams even with Rodgers. They were that good. Thanks, Since ‘61

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Lare's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:36 pm

Holmgren also had some pretty good coordinators and assistant coaches around him. Five of them went on to be Head Coaches themselves-Ray Rhodes, Jon Gruden, Andy Reid, Dick Jauron and Steve Mariucci.

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:24 pm

It's now the Titletown District '61.
I guess we missed the memo...

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:42 pm

Agree, Holmgren had a great staff. Let's not forget Fritz Shurmur the DC.
Thanks, Since '61

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Tundraboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:38 pm

Looks like me and you have another golden era to look back to other than the 60s as well. Thanks for the memories.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:10 pm

Obliterate, are you sure ? That was one of the most precise passing attacks I've seen. Matthews and Woodson will be Hall of Famers. It would be a fun match up.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:20 pm

Holmgren had better OL, DL including Reggie White, better RBs, better secondary. Most importantly Holmgren's teams rarely beat themselves.
That is a big difference with the MM teams. Even with Rodgers throwing virtually no picks his teams consistently finds ways to beat themselves. Thanks, Since '61

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Leatherhead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:32 pm

So good they managed one title.

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Since'61's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:31 pm

Holmgren had better players and his teams rarely beat themselves. That is the big issue with MMs teams IMO. They consistently beat themselves especially in the playoff games.

Holmgren should have had both SBs but against Denver the DL was beat up (Reggie played hurt and Sean Jones was out). Denver took advantage with their ground game and even with Reggie hurt they ran away from Reggie's side.

If Holmgren had remained with the Packers I believe that he would have won at least one more SB with Favre. Thanks, Since '61

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scullyitsme's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:29 pm

The solution is simple, draft/sign 3-4 offensive lineman that are studs next year to go with Bak and Linsey. McCarthy can call any play he wants, Rodgers can hold the ball till Davante gets open deep. I’m not really even joking. It could be that simple. Sign one in free agency, use your first pick on a pass rusher, the second first and the next second on lineman. Maybe a 4th also for insurance. Offense puts up 35 a week next year.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:56 pm

funny, I've been having the same thoughts. 3 useful OL needed badly - 2 starters. I think Gute will def sign a free agent OL, and not a last-minute stopgap like Bell.

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scullyitsme's picture

November 28, 2018 at 02:28 pm

I think more and more that it’s the answer. When our offense was setting records it was with Sitton, Lang, bak, bulaga( healthy) and Linsey/ tretter. That was a quality line. Get 3 lineman or blow up the organization? Have to be able to do what the coaches and qb do best, play to their strengths. They can’t do that right now. McCarthy is frustrating, no doubt about it. But he’s done it before with the right personnel, he can probably do it it again. I’d give him another year as much as it pains me to say it, and as unpopular as it is in here

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:23 pm

Fully agree , we need a solid backup young tackle and a stud guard. This team has a very good future, young receivers and CBs will develop . Another very good D lineman or OLB and we're on our way. I too would rather keep MM at the helm , but too much negativity has made that not possible.

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Rossonero's picture

November 28, 2018 at 12:33 pm

I wonder to myself if we had hired Sean Payton instead of Mike McCarthy, how would we be now?

After Payton's interview in 2006, he said he left Green Bay thinking he had the job. Obviously he didn't get it, but imagine for a moment if he did get the job and McCarthy went to New Orleans.

I just wonder how much better off we'd be...

Rodgers is playing poorly, his footwork is poor, his mechanics are off, I just don't get it.

As crazy as this sounds, if this continues into 2019 (and we miss playoffs again), then the Packers may need to seriously consider drafting a QB by 2020 and trading away Rodgers for a King's Ransom.

Shoot, nobody thought we'd ever trade Favre away, but we did. I don't want things to end messy with Rodgers, but his current play simply does not justify his contract.

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LeotisHarris's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:44 pm

I don't think the organization would be better off had TT hired Payton. Remember Bountygate was on Sean's watch and he spent a year suspended from the Saints without pay. We'd have to assume he would have brought Gregg Williams with him to GB. Joe Vitt was a part of that as well.

What doesn't play well in Green Bay even more than losing is scandal. And scandal can be anything that puts the brand in a negative light. The Martha Circle at St John's Lutheran doesn't care to read about cocaine use by the Polish Prince, sexual assault by Mossy Cade, or any of today's youngsters using that mar-ah-hooney. They want nice clean cut young men, and responsible scout leader-like coaches.

Sean Payton would have disgraced everything for which the Packers supposedly stand.

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Pack204's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:11 pm

The more I see some of the game tapes from this year, I realize maybe MM has evolved some of his schemes more than we realize. Where I have always had frustrations with MM is in game situational management late in games and towards the end of the half. Bad timeout management leads them fighting the clock and they have been unable to perform in-game adjustments as the game starts to play out.

I think Rodgers needs a to adapt his game on not relying on the "sandlot" plays. He is soon to be 35 and the athleticism has started to decline. The second half of the Bears game week 1 is the type of game he needs to evolve to.

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PeteK's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:28 pm

Very true, no fullback ,instead double TE's . Tried some movement with O line ,but failed with this crew.

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Cartwright's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:11 pm

Dog Aaron Rodgers all you want, but all you need is one hole in that offensive line and your done for. We have no RG at all and Bulaga has turned into a stiff. The pocket collapses in no time flat leaving Rodgers to run for the hills. I'm waiting for an announcer to say wow he had all day back there, it hasn't happened, couple that with the loss of Cobb and Allison and inserting not one but two rookies and a stubborn coach who "just because" won't change a thing, and adapt what you get is Murphy's Law, what can go wrong will go wrong.
Two years ago, we drafted 3 RB's, last year 3 WR's, I'm hoping for this draft he focuses on that offensive line and finds guys who will dominate the LOS and create a pocket that won't collapse in less than 2 seconds. Give Rodgers more time and we'll be champions again.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:06 pm

Thanks. Last week was a perfect example. This line is in shambles.

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Leatherhead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:30 pm

Footballoutsiders.com says the O-line is one of the better ones in the league. ProFootballFocus ranks all of the linemen, except Bell, as better than average at their position.

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 01:20 pm

Do some research Pete.
Been a Packers stockholder long?

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stockholder's picture

November 29, 2018 at 01:28 pm

While many of you have decided you know the reason for losing. Many great coaches have had back to back losing seasons. Is a replacement ready to take over? Will he have complete control from the football end? It's a good question because we still keep TT around, hanging over everybody's shoulder, (There was no good stock piling of personal.) Are we accepting MM for what he is? Mike McCarthy is no longer armed with good press. It's become an unfair playing field. Mike McCarthy has had was unquestioned integrity dealing with Arron Rodgers. But is Arron Rodgers keeping him from doing the job he wants to do. There has been No mistreatment of Arron Rodgers. So what are we learning with these defeats? Why isn't the running back going to an open space, rather than a specifically assigned hole? Why isn't the West Coast offense being used? Answer Arron Rodgers. Why is the revolving door at safety this year. Why is the defense not being built around Kenny Clark. Striking at Mike McCarthy is not the analysis this franchise needs.

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Lare's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:34 pm

So you're saying McCarthy is the only one in the Packers organization who is without blame for this losing season.

Um, ok.

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Mojo's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:03 pm

Glad Al mentioned the lack of production in the middle of the field. I've noticed that this entire year. For whatever reason they (ARod) go outside the numbers a disproportionate amount of pass-plays.

He just disdains the middle of the for reasons I don't comprehend since there is often an open player there who leaked (not peeing) into the area. Don't think the opponent D-coordinators haven't noticed.

When you go over the middle you don't have the de facto extra defender in the boundary line. Plus there's a lot of YAC potential when catching over the middle on an angle. Just don't know why they've abandoned it.

As for the QB sneak, the Pack have always been adverse to running it. I think they're afraid of Rodgers getting hurt. Most other teams consider it a part of the risk of playing football. Brady does it all the time and even little Drew Brees once in awhile, so they've come accept the risk versus reward aspect of it.

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Tundraboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:26 pm

Agree. Everytime the conversation turns to the middle of the field on offense,my mind always goes back to when we had Finley and we are playing the Seahawks. We weren't having any success with the wide receivers, they were jamming Jordy heavily and there was a play or two that went to Finley, that were very effective offsetting what Seattle was trying to do. Of course we went away from it for the rest of the game, and I always felt like that was the last time we really used TEs effectively and it was a threat. Other than a flash here and there from Cook we still lack that, Don't care whether it's coaching ,scheme ,Rodgers or lack of speed but it makes no sense. Just not football.

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JerseyAl's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:29 pm

take a look at this quote from McCarthy from 2015 on the topic of middle of the field.

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1067900886251421701

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 03:45 pm

When I die, I want to be sleeping peacefully like my grandfather.
Not screaming like the passengers in his truck. This too shall pass...

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GeorgiaCheesehead's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:14 pm

Wow. How many of you are still not sure if MM is the problem or not and compare him to Sean Payton. MM is a scared timid indecisive highly successful football coach ans Sean Payton goes for it on 4th and 7 from his own 40 up 31-7. yes AR is not playing perfect football this year. But man does that pocket collapse fast on 3rd and long when everyone knows we have to pass and there are no answers for the blitz. I am NOT scared of change and lird knows we need a creative offensive minded HC. Can’t wait til 12/31/19.

And lets be honest there isn’t a chance in hell we make the playoffs this year. Zero, zilch. Lets see what Tonyan and Kumerow have and get Boyle/Kizer sone reps.

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:42 pm

Talent makes a team. Draft and develop? Not since 2012. No plan B. or C. Running an offense gamed planned since 2013. High defensive draft pick busts? Too many to count. Bargain bin offensive drafts?
Too many to count. Draft and develop depends on he year to year progress. Green Bay, we have a problem....

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:55 pm

I think he is buried in New York and unavailable for rehire. Parity is the goal. Other than NE., it is.

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Cartwright's picture

November 28, 2018 at 04:19 pm

This article was about a coaching change, most agree we need one, but who? Read from a poster here the other day that Joe Lombardi is an NFL assistant coach. When I read that my wheels started spinning. Imagine having a Lombardi pacing the sidelines. Joe isn't Vince but so what, the PR move alone could skyrocket the team to success. I know he wouldn't be the best choice, not even close but to hear the name Coach Lombardi for the Green Bay Packers being brought back to life would be a dream come true.

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nostradanus's picture

November 28, 2018 at 06:05 pm

Nice thought and it would be a great story but the Packers must make smart football decisions not PR stunts

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:02 pm

I've heard Nick Saban turned down the Texas job due to a lack of funding. Plus he hates the winters.

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cheesycowboy's picture

November 28, 2018 at 05:21 pm

I'm a Badger. I love going down rabbit holes....

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ILPackerBacker's picture

November 29, 2018 at 10:15 am

Just a short few days ago Chris C was on national tv saying the defensive backfield was young and inexperienced due to Rodgers new contract.

Those are facts you can go back and see/hear it all.

Is any of that remotely true?

That is typical reporting on the packers. No accuracy at all and that leads to a lack of accountability which everyone now acknowledges for Ted T.

The local press and cheap alternatives at ESPN following the purge of actual journalists to save money and keep Disney stock high really make the problem worse.

The need of bad writers (and lazy) lead to things like the ZOOK press conference where he admitted to be totally unprepared and incompetent....yet it was reported no where.

but where did Zook come from and why?
did special teams improve? Be careful what you wish for. Someone like the carpet bagger howdy doody hiring a new head coach should scare the crap out of every packer fan (except those with a connection to the search firm his daughter works at)

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