Confessions of a Polluted Mindset 2020 - Packers Cave to the Colts

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Special Teams:There's plenty to complain about with the special teams (save for Mason Crosby), but one of the worst is the blocking on kickoffs. There's no wonder the Colts forced the Packers to return kickoffs. Colts players went through/around Packers blockers with little resistance from the Green Bay side.

Darius Sheppard: Speaking of special teams, I was absolutely shocked that the Packers threw Sheppard back out there after an already bad performance was eclipsed by his fumble. I expressed this on twitter and some answered that maybe the Packers didn't have anyone else that could do it. I just don't believe that could be true. Some quick research shows that Malik Taylor returned 3 kickoffs for 61 yards during the 2019 preseason. I'm sure there are others on the roster who could do it.

In Shape to Swarm? In my "three plays..." post yesterday, I showed an example of the defense doing what we haven't seen them do much of - swarm to the ball. I also noted how this phenomenon seemed to fade away as the game went on, especially after halftime. As I re-watched the game for a third time, I took note that Christian Kirksey looks heavier and slower than when we first saw him. Preston Smith has looked that way all year. Dean Lowry hasn't looked as physical this year. So does this bring into question the team conditioning? Are they simply not in good enough shape to keep the swarming effort up for 60 minutes? In fairness, they were on the field for a bigger than usual total of 84 snaps, but still. I don't know if conditioning is an issue with this team, but I'm just wondering if it could be.

Billy Turner: A little something I've noticed over the course of the season. When the Packers offense hits the field about to start an important drive, Turner will turn to his OL teammates and give them an encouraging fist bump as if to say, "this is big, let's do this." Turner is a soft-spoken but thoughtful and intelligent guy who undoubtedly is one of the team leaders, albeit not in a rah-rah manner.

First Drives: The Packers have been enormously successful scoring on their first possessions this season. LaFleur and Hackett seem capable of putting together an awesome first drive script that keeps defenses off balance with a great mix of different looks and concepts. They haven't been nearly as successful on the first drive of the second half. I'm wondering if they script out that first drive at halftime and if not, why not? Not enough time? Why not re-use the game opening script with maybe a tweak or two? 

Matchups: Preston Smith covering tight end Trey Burton in the red zone? Kirksey covering wide receiver Michael Pittman on a crossing route? Both resulted in touchdowns just being handed to the Colts. 

Two Point Conversions: Is it my imagination or are the Packers the worst team ever at preventing two point conversions (only slight exaggeration here)? If the Packers prevent Indy from making that 2-point conversion, Mason Crosby kicks the WINNING field goal and the Packers prevail 31-30 (which happens to be the exact score of my prediction).

Raven Greene:  As mentioned here before, he continues to show some of the best tackling on the team. If he gets his hands on a ball carrier, he just brings him down, pure and simple.

3rd and 1s: And here we arrive at the Packers' self-inflicted albatross. I say self-inflicted because they continue to overthink and outsmart themselves in these situations After successfully converting on two 3rd and 1s via Jamal Williams runs, the Packers decided to pass on their next three attempts. None would have been successful save for the PI that MVS drew just before the half. So I was wondering how I could research the Packers' success rate in such situations when as usual, the fantastic Ben Fennell did my job for me. Seems they make the bottom five in the league in this department.

 

 

__________________________

"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther.  Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

9 points

Comments (90)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Bearmeat's picture

November 25, 2020 at 06:23 am

MLF needs to can Petine and Mennenga at the end of the year. Why can't we have a decent defense and special teams? It's been since... what... mid Sherman?

OOF.

15 points
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Sureshot's picture

November 25, 2020 at 06:29 am

I was OK to fire them last year so, yeah

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:06 am

To my mind it has become obvious that Pettine needs to go before them. The observations here and in Al’s 3 Plays piece yesterday scream out that we have a coach who is getting in the way of his players, setting them up for failure either by direct coaching instruction or practice practices. That is without considering the use of front 7 personnel, where I think the case is equally clear.

I rarely see sudden changes as beneficial mid season, but this is the exception where I see the coach as a lead weight. LaFleur has said after games at least 3 times that we need to stop playing off and in prevent mindset or need to start swarming etcetera.

I can’t believe that message can be unclear to Pettine. The continued failure to correct it indicate that he can’t or won’t change it. Personally, I think Pettine is just out of ideas and confidence. For these reasons I believe LaFleur can and should relieve him now.

9 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:44 am

Yes please! Why not? I just can't take going into another years playoffs knowing that inevitably this D approach will doom us in the end. And special teams is now on fire as well.

7 points
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Swisch's picture

November 25, 2020 at 10:55 am

Remember the playoffs last year; and consider whether the defense has changed all that much; and then ask if our hearts are stout enough, and our minds steady enough, to withstand the same tortuous ride this time around.
First, the Seahawks almost overcome a big deficit in storming back by running circles around our defense. Though we hold on, Packers fans are left exhausted and addled and barely able to function for days to come.
Then the 49ers manhandle the defense, stomping all over it and running amok, humiliating the team and leaving the fans in a stunned daze that lasts for weeks. (I think I called for the firing of Pettine at that point).
If after all these months we've forgotten -- to paraphrase the wise saying about remembering history -- we doom ourselves to the same exasperating agony, and the loss of more years of our lives.
Please tell me why I am wrong and how things will be much better in these upcoming playoffs. Please calmly and logically comfort my anguish from this past game against the Colts, and soothe my fears for the future.

8 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 25, 2020 at 11:59 pm

I'm with you brother, and I wish I could offer something. Perhaps just seeing this offense get better will be reason for hope.

2 points
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Swisch's picture

November 26, 2020 at 07:27 am

Thanks for commiserating, Tundraboy, and it is good to look at the bright side of having a very good team in the Packers.
Perhaps even Pettine (and I wish him well) will become more imaginative and motivating during the rest of the season.
In any case, I'm grateful for the Packers doing so well, and with the possibility for many more good things to come.
Happy Thanksgiving!

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2020 at 08:27 am

Happy Thanksgiving as well.

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2020 at 12:03 am

Or Dillon will come back and run through everyone and the D won't have to be out as much.

2 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2020 at 12:02 am

Or maybe they will fire Pettine and Menenga.

1 points
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jeremyjjbrown's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:32 am

Fire Pettine now. Keeping that guys is a bigger risk than ditching him. He has no imagination. His D is just a copy cat of Rex's D built for the NFL 15 years ago.

8 points
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flackcatcher's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:16 am

Gute needs to can MLF and...never mind. Anyone can play this game. I'm content to see how the rest of this covid season play out. Deep breaths Bear. Deep Breaths...

-3 points
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PeteK's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:47 am

Not Sherman, 4th and 27! Thanks for that pleasant memory especially after this tough loss. LOL

4 points
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Sureshot's picture

November 25, 2020 at 06:36 am

On par with you regarding special teams. Only surefire is our FG unit.

Shepperd doesn't look like an NFL player. Short, slow, bad decisions. Nothing in his game seems to be special. Why not try someone else like Begelton?

I was thinking exactly the same about the scripted offense. It looks as if everything is dialed perfectly for the first drives but then it starts to look horrific in the second half.
So maybe they should script twice more plays to cover the length of the game. If something works, keep doing it

8 points
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ricky's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:05 am

If there is a lack of conditioning, it's a Packers problem, not league wide. Agreed, a shorter TC and no exhibition games, but these guys are getting very well paid to do their jobs. Other teams swarm and show intensity for 60 minutes. It seems there are some fundamental problems here that need to be addressed in the off season. Which unfortunately may be sooner than later. As far as coverage goes, I understand the concept that Pettine brings to the defense. The thing is, it doesn't work. You brought up staying on the field for the offense as being weak. So is getting off the field on defense. And that seems to be the relaxed/vanilla schemes that are being used. And ST's? Until the Packers are willing to pay a top notch coach to join the team, and instead settle for mediocrities, they're never going to improve.

6 points
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Lphill's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:09 am

JK Scott is a weapon for the Packers opponents, most other sports shows exploiting the Packers as soft and unable to maintain a lead , the whole NFL knows the Packers deficiencies except the Packers.

3 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:28 am

Was Scott’s mind not in it due to his personal matter? Perhaps we should have sat him. Kaser likely wouldn’t have been worse: Scott was awful, in a dome! Another bad coaching decision perhaps?

7 points
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Lphill's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:57 am

Scott is ranked 26 out of 32, how long has he had personal issues?

5 points
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Razer's picture

November 25, 2020 at 10:04 am

In 2019 he was in the bottom third of the league with a net 39.9 yards. This year he is 36.8 net yards. Yikes.

3 points
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splitpea1's picture

November 25, 2020 at 11:18 am

He only has to receive the snap, kick the football, and he's pretty much done in a few seconds....there's not enough time for there to be anything else in his mind.

5 points
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Razer's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:34 am

The Packers released the wrong punter earlier this week. JK Scott is way too inconsistent and prone to worst-time shanks. If the Packers are an outdoor, cold weather team then you need someone who can demonstrate the fit. JK Scott did everything but help in a dome this past weekend.

Put a punter on the list - damn

8 points
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mrtundra's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:01 am

I do not know if it is because of where Scott punts from, on the field, where he may not have a lot of yardage to work with, but he doesn't look like he is getting the leg extension he had when he was punting well, for the Packers. Recently, I've noticed his leg barely getting to the 10 O'Clock position, on his kicks, and have not seen his kicking leg at the Noon position, like it was in past games. Anybody else see this?

7 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:25 am

Al, I am pleased to see you identifying the abysmal blocking from the special teams unit. So many seem focused on Shepherd who, aside from the fumble, got more than he was given (I personally doubt Taylor or Ervin do noticeably better under the circumstances).

The comparison between the two units on the field last week is shocking. Unlike the catastrophic coverage the week before, this time we had most of our regulars not on IR. Our blocking was terrible. If we continue like that we will not only see poor field positions but more fumbles by the returners, if they stay healthy.

I do not buy the excuse of talent. The Colts aren’t running STs full of all Stars. It has to be coaching. The degree of indiscipline and technical ineptitude is simply too great.

I responded to a point earlier noting that LaFleur has been unable to change the approach of Pettine’s defense, despite post game statements that it is imperative on 3 or more occasions. Add to this the execrable ST showing and I am starting to wonder if LaFleur has it to be a HC as opposed to an OC.

A HC is responsible for the whole team. A HC who can’t get adequate performances out of his players will fail no matter how brilliant his game planning. We have seen this team come out flat in about 30% of the games, so that may also be a valid concern. However, a HC who can’t get performance from his coordinators is also likely doomed. So far it’s not looking good.

LaFleur needs to get hold of this team by the scruff of the neck now. There is no excuse for him either if Pettine plays a soft D or the D isn’t amped up again. Is he just not taken seriously? The same should go for ST.

LaFleur needs to show he really is the leader and can deliver a team that resembles his stated idea on the field. That starts with the coaches in this case. It may take drastic action to shake things up. A little less PR and a lot more Lombardi. Lead!

12 points
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Razer's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:41 am

...I am starting to wonder if LaFleur has it to be a HC as opposed to an OC...

Coldworld - please, please, please don't do this to me. I couldn't stand Mike McCarthy burying his face in that plastic sheet while the team ran around in disarray. Coach your coaches and address the team needs. If you have the right people managing the critical areas of the team, you can get away with the dual role. We haven't and we don't.

Arrrrgh!

2 points
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PhantomII's picture

November 25, 2020 at 01:45 pm

ML is young. HC make the hard calls so we have not seen ST tightened up yet nor Pettine's D. I think ML is going to have to tell each of them how HE wants their unit to function and step on there
latitude in coaching to reign them in because they are not adjusting for the obvious on their own.

1 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 25, 2020 at 03:37 pm

I hope you are right.

0 points
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PhantomII's picture

November 26, 2020 at 11:17 am

I think the current fix would be to give his assistant Gray personnel and alignments/ calls duty and see what he could do with it before the axe falls. I still don't think Pettine quite has the personnel to make his odd system work but he is still not stopping the run with his current big guys and he plays guys who are playing poorly over ones who play well on a limited basis. Yea, I don't get that.

2 points
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Minniman's picture

November 25, 2020 at 04:02 pm

Re "LaFleur needs to get hold of this team by the scruff of the neck now. There is no excuse for him either if Pettine plays a soft D or the D isn’t amped up again. Is he just not taken seriously? The same should go for ST. "

Coldworld, I think that by MLF being so candid in agreeing with external assessments of the D, he is actually positioning himself to be able to make more of the coaching positional decisions that he wants (as some here opined that MLF was hired on the pretext that he didn't\couldn't change the DC straight away).

I wonder if this isn't the preliminary PR work to empower him to make that decision.

Regarding preconceived start of half strategies --> credit to Indy here, they identified that the Packers Dime defense was a weakness against their great O-line and they pressed that advantage. 5 plays into the second half before MP changes things but by then Indy are knocking on the red-zone door and they can't recover.... touchdown and momentum straight to Indy.

5 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:06 pm

I hope you are right, it’s certainly possible.

0 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2020 at 12:15 am

I think you make a great point. Perhaps the plan was to allow MLF to take the reins first on Offense. After dealing with that and Rodgers he could then focus on the other side after gaining some credibility.

0 points
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Fabio's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:52 am

Hi Al, you asked me if Siena is in Italy and I confirm you. I send greetings to you and all Green Bay fans. I ask you to correct me if I say something irrelevant or irrelevant. I've been a long time fan but maybe I'm not very competent so if I say nonsense tell me. I would like to ask you for an analysis of the 3rd and 19th of the 4th quarter where the Colts, with a running game, came to 4 yards and then converted the 4th down taking a lot of time. There was still 01:58 It cost us 2 time outs and 30 seconds of play ...... everything we missed on the last drive !!!

13 points
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Coldworld's picture

November 25, 2020 at 03:39 pm

Beautiful town. Crazy horse race.

4 points
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JerseyAl's picture

November 25, 2020 at 04:12 pm

definitely on my bucket list to witness that one day.

2 points
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JerseyAl's picture

November 25, 2020 at 04:11 pm

Ciao Fabio. I visited Siena two years ago. We stayed at a working winery about 15 minutes outside of Siena (AGRICOLA MONTECHIARO) and visited various wineries around Tuscany. A dream trip!

As for your question, there isn't much to analyze other than the madness of the Packers allowing the Colts to make up most of the 19 yards on 3rd down, which allowed them to go for it on fourth down.

4 points
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Fabio's picture

November 25, 2020 at 04:44 pm

If you come back just let me know that I will give you another nice tour (of Montalcino and Val d'Orcia) Go Pack Go

3 points
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JerseyAl's picture

November 26, 2020 at 06:52 pm

We visited a lot of places. Montalcino. Montepulciano, Montereggioni, San Gimignano, Chianti, etc.

1 points
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Spock's picture

November 27, 2020 at 03:40 am

Jeeze, Al. It sounds like you've been doing a lot of "wine-ing", lol. My wife and I spent two weeks in Italy for our 25th anniversary. love that country.

0 points
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egbertsouse's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:39 am

Apparently, like ILB and run defense, the Packers don’t value special teams. Hire the cheap coach, don’t hold the returner or punter accountable, and don’t require anyone to block or tackle. We’ll just look concerned at press conferences and swear we will fix it. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

6 points
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4thandinches's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:30 am

I keep seeing these 'hire the cheap coach' comments. I am not aware of the Pack losing their top coaching candidates because of penny pinching. Did I miss something?

2 points
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PhantomII's picture

November 25, 2020 at 04:39 pm

When ML was hired, many of MM's coaches hit the road. Patriots DC took over HC in Miami. Darren Rizzi was the ST coaches name at the time from Miami, but he was seen by the Packers front office. He wanted 1 mill salary as ST coach for Packers, they balked and he walked to the Saints. He was top 4 ST coach in the NFL at the time w/ a track record of very good coaching history. The same time ML was talked into keeping Pettine and Pettine recommended Mennenga who was ST assistant for Browns before. And here we are. Is a million dollars worth a Championship level ST? I certainly think so. ST is 1of 3 phases of football. Is a Championship level DC important. It is looking more important every game I watch. MM's salary was 8 mill at the time, ML salary was 5 mill, a savings of 3 million/yr for 5 yrs=15 mill. Packers organization is a penny pinching outfit.....Period. It is right here in white and green. TT made more money than Gute also. They had new money to get a better coaching staff and they went cheap instead of quality. Saints lead the league in ST under Rizzi now.

1 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2020 at 08:34 am

Yes, invest in better Coaching as well. What would a better D coordinator and ST coach cost, 3 or 4 million? And as you pointed out some of that was already offset.

0 points
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PhantomII's picture

November 26, 2020 at 10:52 am

Thanks, Tundraboy. I wanted to point out this upper management makes some really bonehead calls for exactly the wrong motivation. It is ingrained in the way they function. I have heard rumors of good players not becoming Packers because they were lowballed during negotiations and felt disrespected by it. I believe snacks is not on our team because the offer was too low. He is not what he was but he was an all pro. Not too many current packers can say that. I love my team and these kind of mistakes infuriate me when they happen especially when the end results prove a point and there is zero accountability from their failures.

1 points
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Gman1976's picture

November 26, 2020 at 04:18 am

From what I remember, our head coach wanted to hire a more experienced, proven and expensive special teams head coach whose name I cannot bring to mind, but upper management nixed his choice.

2 points
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flackcatcher's picture

November 26, 2020 at 05:35 am

Yeah, don't blame MLF for this one. This goes back to the very messy separation of Mark Murphy from the front office. It was Russ Ball who nixed the ST contract, unknown to both MLF and Pettine who pushed for the ST coach. After this fiasco the executive committee informed Murphy that he was to have no more contact with the GM over coaching and player personnel. (Second hand source. Take it for what it is worth...)

2 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 26, 2020 at 06:35 am

Media did report that $$$ was the reason GB didn't hire Darren Rizzi, a long time and very respected ST coordinator. Our own Aaron Nagler indicated that he was 100% certain that money was not the issue, but refused to say what the issue was.

Mennenga had been an asst. ST coach at Cleveland under Pettine. Mennenga had never been a ST coordinator except for one year at Vanderbilt. I suppose Pettine might have recommended Mennenga for ST Coordinator, but for all I know he might have been neutral or opposed to the notion.

I wasn't thrilled with the idea of having a guy for the first time in the NFL as the ST Coordinator. But then, LaFleur had never been an HC. MM hadn't been a HC. New blood, new ideas is possibly a good thing. I don't think it is working out, myself. He should be gone in 2021, and I think it is more obvious that Mennenga should be fired than it is that Pettine should be fired. I'd be okay if both were fired.

4 points
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HighPlainsDrifter's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:31 am

egbert's is such an uninformed opinion. If you honestly believe that the Packers organization does not "value" special teams and run defense you are just stupid.

Like all other professional football teams, the Packers goal is have the best possible performances in all three aspects of the game, along with best possible players and fundamentals that go along with that goal. If you say otherwise you are either a sad example of a troll or simply have no clue what you are talking about.

-10 points
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PeteK's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:48 am

Harsh responses like this will leave you drifting the plains like a sad lonely figure in the setting sun.

8 points
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HighPlainsDrifter's picture

November 25, 2020 at 12:41 pm

I had to laugh at your reply Pete, that was great!

The great majority of posters here, including you, are smart, reasonable commenters. I would never crush those folks who intelligently criticize the players, coaches, and organization. Conversely, the would be coaches and GMs who cannot cobble together a coherent sentence have to be called out at times.

-2 points
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Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2020 at 08:37 am

Then they should make it a priority. Same with ILB and DL.

0 points
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stockholder's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:58 am

Darius Shepard as long as he's back there. Their going to kick to him. Cut him now. Swarm - lowery - What did BG see. Cut him now. Kirksey is slower. But he did make a few good plays. The LBs just are to inconsistent. P. Smith - Julius Peppers slowed down too. No matter how you cut it. The DL needs help first! And help is not on the way. BG cut Daniels without a back up plan. - Everyone behind Clark is a waste of time. Is BG really a GM or just a scout?? Turner- yes he's better then Wagner. Fast Drives - It's the Wall protection. Match ups- the safety use to cover the TE. And the LB played the run. I don't see the CB blitzing? So why does it keep happening. 3rd Downs and 1- If you can't run it. You don't have the right personel.

2 points
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Razer's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:04 am

Watching the Colts purposely kick to Darius Shepard as a strategy told me everything about our Special Teams. After Shepard miscalculated the "almost" didn't hit the line kick-off, he brought the next kick-off out of the endzone. I had to leave the room.

...3rd Downs and 1- If you can't run it. You don't have the right personal...

Or maybe we don't have the right coaching for this type of football. Didn't we use a second round pick to bring in a power back? I like Matt Lafleur and thankful for Aaron Rodgers but these guys don't know or don't want to play power ball

2 points
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flackcatcher's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:26 am

A lot of teams are doing that. Not just the Colts to the Packers. Football teams study all the video, with the Colts that is not unusual with controlled conditions in a dome.

0 points
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PeteK's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:30 am

Keke and Lancaster are good rotational players, but we need a big, muddy, nasty, hog like Hicks.

4 points
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Razer's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:53 am

Third year since Mike McCarthy has been gone and what are we talking about.

* Special teams are a liability AND need a new coach
* Poor (soft) defense that can't stop the run AND needs a new coach
* Inconsistent offense with 3rd down conversion problems
* Linebackers and D-line deficiencies

Maybe we have a polluted mindset. Maybe we should just learn to accept this level of success and our participant ribbon.

5 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:59 am

As Yogi Berra so eloquently stated...

"It's Deja Vu all over again."

3 points
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PeteK's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:18 am

Wash your mind out with some positive thoughts, we're competing and one game behind home field advantage.

0 points
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3
4thandinches's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:21 am

Or maybe it's really difficult to dominate in all 3 phases of the NFL at once in the salary cap era? We're 7 and 3. Let's stand by this team and stop talking of firing coaches because we lost a game where we turned the ball over 4 times against a good team. Every team has warts.

3 points
6
3
dobber's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:40 am

It's OK to bitch. Bitching is healthy...it helps get the frustrations out. But--as you point out--we need to be honest in our bitching. I'm against fanboy-ing: saying we can't criticize a team because management and coaching know better than we do. That will always be true. I'm also against "cow"-ing: those who immediately call to shitcan the whole thing because they don't like how ARod ties his shoes. The second-guessing and the critical analysis is what's fun about following professional sports for those of us who were never--or will never be--good enough to ever play the game at that level.

10 points
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4thandinches's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:55 am

Fair enough. To be honest, I won't shed a tear if MLF decides to make a change at DC and ST coordinator in the off-season if deficiencies continue. That's said, you'd think we're the Jets with all the firing talk I'm hearing right now. In reality, we're one of the best teams in the NFC. If the Pack can make a few more plays, we are poised to do some damage in the playoffs.

6 points
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dobber's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:13 am

I agree with you for the most part: you don't get to 7-3 (or 13-3) by accident. I also agree that you need to be damn sure if you're going to can your DC (or any high-level coach) mid-season...it's just as likely to alienate your defensive locker room (and maybe your locker room in general) as it is to motivate them, and your new coach is going to come from in-house...so how much is really going to change?

Minus the TOs, the Packers probably win on Sunday: in general, they played better than the Colts. That doesn't mean they dominated start-to-finish. but you can't take the TOs out, and the Packers did lose. If the Packers take care of the football and play like they did on Sunday, they probably go 5-1 down the stretch and maybe win all 6. Much as we bitch about the defense, the defense kept the Packers in the game in the second half by forcing FGs.

Sunday night will be a test...a Bears team coming off a bye, rested, mostly healthy, and needing a win to stay in the playoff hunt. They're probably going to come out flying, and the Packers will need to match their intensity.

7 points
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Guam's picture

November 25, 2020 at 01:44 pm

Yes, change is risky Dobber, but I have a name for you - Dan Quinn. DC for the legion of boom Seahawks defense and former HC of the Falcons. Available and known for his aggressive defense. I think I am about ready......

3 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 25, 2020 at 02:28 pm

Unfortunately GB doesn't have the weapons that he had available with the Legion of Boom. Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner, etc., etc. all in their prime.

His defenses in Atlanta were nothing special.

3 points
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Guam's picture

November 25, 2020 at 03:03 pm

But at least he knows what to do when he has weapons. The Packer corners and OLBs are good and safeties are decent. Plug some holes on the DL and get a little development from our rookie ILBs and we might actually have something.

Like ColdWorld, I am having serious doubts about Pettine's ability to maximize what we do have much less what to do with more.

1 points
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13TimeChamps's picture

November 25, 2020 at 03:23 pm

I totally agree with your assessment of Pettine. I'm just not sure that any number of DC's with that abundant of talent Quinn had in Seattle wouldn't have done just as well.

Personally, I'd like to give some young, ascending defensive coach in the league a shot instead of retreads like Capers ,Pettine and Quinn. Hell, if we're going to go old school, might as well bring in Wade for a couple years. Just kidding....sort of.

And, sorry but Amos and Savage vs Chancellor and Thomas?

2 points
2
0
splitpea1's picture

November 25, 2020 at 03:46 pm

Yes! Somebody young, enthusiastic, and not set in his ways!

1 points
1
0
Tundraboy's picture

November 26, 2020 at 12:21 am

"It can't get no worse"

John Lennon

0 points
0
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PhantomII's picture

November 27, 2020 at 11:58 am

I believe Guam is as frustrated as I am. Pettine does not consistently play big bodies up front in the right quantity for the correct down and distance....ever. It wouldn't take much of an adjustment from Pettine to do what any other DC would do to stop the leaky run game. He also starts players who are underperforming over ones who are doing better with a lesser snap count. He is slow to adjust to offenses adjustments. The players who keep making mistakes don't learn from them and keep playing more snaps. How is this. Here is where I am. Gray should be able to get better from within.Any decent DC could do better than what we are getting from him. Gary should be starting over P. Smith. Anyone should be starting over Lowery.

0 points
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splitpea1's picture

November 25, 2020 at 03:54 pm

If there was ever a team that needed a bye, it was the Bears coming off their dismal offensive performance against the Vikings. With a new play caller, they've had a little time to sort things out now. Still no word on who the starting QB will be, but given the battering Foles took in the aforementioned game, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Trubisky. They need his rushing ability, because the only weapon they have on offense is Robinson.

1 points
1
0
Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 26, 2020 at 06:47 am

How the locker room really feels about Pettine is not something fans really can know. MLF and probably Gute should know.

I agree that firing a DC mid-season when the team is likely playoff bound sounds radical to me.

0 points
1
1
flackcatcher's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:18 am

..."cow-ing".... MOO! Had to do it. I was as angry about the game as many of our fellow CHTV commenters were. Those are the kind of games which drive a fan base nuts. The same kind of football issues which seem to never go away. But this game seemed to push some really crazy buttons around Green Bay Fandom. Normally it would have been chalked up as a tough loss, but in this year. (shakes head)

4 points
4
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PhantomII's picture

November 25, 2020 at 04:00 pm

It's our QB not getting any younger, last year 13-3, right on the cusp. Our D meltdown in the Championship. This year It seems same old, same old and our QB a yr. older. Wasted career talk stuff. No change on ST. No change on "D". Actually seeing we could stop the run in first half then not doing the same "D" alignments w/ personnel to stop the Colts in 2nd half........ Bizarre.......

-1 points
0
1
jlc1's picture

November 25, 2020 at 11:53 am

7-3 is glass half full. 3-3 in last six games is glass half empty or maybe just the truth, they are playing .500 ball right now.

2 points
2
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dobber's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:33 am

"* Inconsistent offense with 3rd down conversion problems"

OK...maybe the offense didn't have its best game against the top-rated defense in the league on Sunday, but--overall--offense hasn't been the problem for this team this season.

7 points
7
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Razer's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:55 am

Not against the other teams with injury concerns or generally poor performance. What about the teams that actually put up a fight? Both Jax and the Vikings revealed the same inconsistency.

3 points
3
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PeteK's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:04 am

Usually by this time in the season conditioning should not be a problem. If we have the best rated center there should be enough push in a spread formation to get a measly yard the vast majority of the time. I just think that our O line has to do a better job on running plays because I don't see us getting any push. I hope Turner can be our RT of the future, it would fill a big need. Obviously Wagner is not the ans and might be let go because he is too expensive for a backup ( 4mill cap saving).

2 points
2
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dobber's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:51 am

Wagner has played well when called upon at RT. He's not a long-term solution, no, but Turner being successful at RT (with the depth and prospects the Packers have accumulated at the IOL positions) takes an additional burden off the upcoming draft.

3 points
3
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 26, 2020 at 06:51 am

If GB does let Wagner go (and they might or might feel they have to), we will all be asking who the swing tackle is. The answer is probably Jenkins, but requires revolving chairs.

0 points
1
1
Packer_Fan's picture

November 25, 2020 at 08:36 am

LaFleur does a good job at the start of the game scripting plays. We need that also at the start of the second half and also when things go bad to help turnaround momentum. NOthing like a few first downs to right the ship.

Pettine needs to go now. Give the defense some new juice and aggressiveness. And perhaps the bad playing to soft and rushing three will go away. In the playoffs, the good quarterbacks perhaps won't pick apart the defense.

3 points
4
1
RCPackerFan's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:03 am

Special Teams:
These last few weeks Special Teams have not been very good. They need someone or people to step up.
One player that the Special Teams is really missing is Lovett. He was a really good special teams player.

Darius Sheppard:
I thought it was telling afterwards that the Colts purposely were kicking high short kicks to land at or about the 5 because they knew Shepherd wasn't a threat to return it. I think its time to find his replacement. I have nothing against him but i haven't seen anything that suggests he is a really good NFL player. I don't know if any of the WR on the PS can return kicks. If not they may need to go out and find a guy who can. I don't know how long Ervin will be out, but we can't keep putting Shepherd out there if he is a liability and no threat.

Billy Turner:
Imagine where our OL would be without Turner. He has been very, very good! His versatility has really helped the offense out, big time! Without Turner our OL would have really struggled.

First Drives:
They have scored on opening drives except for 2. Last week against Jags, Rodgers throws to a wide open Tonyan and the wind carries the ball 7 yards away. This week they are driving with ease until Rodgers/Linsley fumble the snap. The one thing I notice is in the first drive there is probably more motion then any other drive of the game. While they still use motion it just seems/feels like they use it more on the opening drive. For whatever reason later in games they use it here or there, but its not as frequent as it is when its put into the script.

Matchups:
I get that the defense has to use OLB and whatnot in coverage at times. I get that the ILB has to cover people. BUt here is my question. What is the point of playing Dime Defense so often if you are still going to rely on your OLB to cover people? What is the point of playing Dime defense if you are going to have your ILB cover a WR?
My question with the TD that Smith gave up. I can't remember what the coverage was like on the other side, but the safety over the top slid that direction. Shouldn't that safety know that Smith is covering the TE on that play? Shouldn't that Safety understand that Smith isn't a tremendous coverage type of player? It just seems like to me that the safety should have helped over the top with Smith in coverage.

Two Point Conversions:
That was a huge play in the game. They could have really used a stop there. Also would have changed the game a bit with the mindset of the Colts.

Raven Greene:
Greene is possibly our tackler on the team. One thing I would like to see them do more with Greene is try blitzing him. He has the strength and the speed to fight through the OL.
They have to find ways to get Greene and Martin on the field at the same time. It seems like they take Martin off to bring Greene on. Maybe they should find someone else to take off to put Greene on the field because have both on the field together more would only be a good thing for the defense.

3rd and 1s:
This is where I would like to see AJ Dillon come back and be the guy they need. They need a short yardage guy that can pound his way for a first down. Or at the very least the threat of that guy.
This is also an area I think using the TE's a bit more in the passing game would help. They are reliable and should be able to get a couple of yards.

7 points
7
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jlc1's picture

November 25, 2020 at 11:55 am

Indy runs it in from the two and GB passes when they need half that. Speaks volumes.

4 points
4
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Razer's picture

November 25, 2020 at 12:03 pm

...Two Point Conversions: That was a huge play in the game. They could have really used a stop there. Also would have changed the game a bit with the mindset of the Colts...

Unless the score didn't warrant it, I would always go for 2 points against the Packers. First 2 or 3 times I would run left at L Smith until Pettine made an adjustment then I would run the other way.

-1 points
0
1
Lphill's picture

November 25, 2020 at 09:04 am

Another wasted Rodgers MVP like season, Starr, Favre, Rodgers it ends here striking gold 3 times doesn't happen often, don't think Love will join that group so enjoy Rodgers now because we won't see someone like him on the Packers ever again.

-5 points
1
6
13TimeChamps's picture

November 25, 2020 at 10:02 am

"so enjoy Rodgers now because we won't see someone like him on the Packers ever again."

Wow...you can tell the future. Amazing!

6 points
6
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PeteK's picture

November 25, 2020 at 10:04 am

Just wondering if you made these predictions while reading the foam at the bottom of the empty beer mugs . "day after day, alone on the hill" ( No bad intend , just some ribbing) LOL

5 points
5
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splitpea1's picture

November 25, 2020 at 12:14 pm

Special teams: As stated by a couple others already, JK Scott is third from the bottom in both net average and punts inside the 20. Surely there is somebody out there who is better. I like the M. Taylor suggestion for returning kicks when Ervin is out; what do we have to lose?

Opposing two conversions: Just not getting any penetration or off blocks fast enough; this goes back to the first game of the season.

Second half offense: No, why not come out with a few different wrinkles and try plays to catch the defense off-guard? Dig deep into the playbook and get them guessing and back on their heels ( I watched the Steelers-Cowboys game a while back ago and MM was throwing everything he could at the Steelers with a third-string QB--and almost pulled off the upset). Once again, what do you have to lose? We only had about five minutes worth of possession in the second half; this is not sustainable.

2 points
2
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barutanseijin's picture

November 25, 2020 at 01:37 pm

Jon Ryan is available. Who knows whether he would want to come back to GB. Sometimes i think he put a curse on the Packer punter position.

0 points
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splitpea1's picture

November 25, 2020 at 05:14 pm

I was sorry to see the Packers let him go. He had a good strong leg, but I think they were looking for a better directional kicker at the time. I doubt there would be any mutual interest at this time, given that he has business interests elsewhere, is financially comfortable, and is 39 years old.

He certainly put a curse on us in the 2014 NFCCG, unfortunately.

0 points
0
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CoachDino's picture

November 25, 2020 at 07:18 pm

Dang AL another great job of presenting core problems/issues and asking the right questions that need to be answered if theres is going to be a plan for improvement.

IMO Some things go hand in hand.

1st half GB executes the game plan controls the time of possession and the Defense plays its best. Great point on swarming to the ball, its huge and I don't hear about as much as I used to when watching football. 2nd half the offense sputters, why? That loss of time of possession advantage "seems" to lead to a reduce in D performance which to your point could be conditioning as the swarming to the ball reduction is obvious and makes a difference.

Can guys be conditioned to be on the field that much and still play at optimal levels? Do they not have or are failing to implement some sort of rotation to keep players fresh. If so why? is it due to Depth, Coaching or combination?

Why do opp. offenses come out strong after half, adjustments I assume, which in turn is going to take a few series to identify and counter, most likely, on defense.

So intuitively I can see if the Packers are a strong 1st half team why would they be thinking about making big adjustments, what they are doing is working. They game plan for opponents tendencies.

Im nowhere near knowledgeable to know but can adjustments be anticipated and countered better at half? Faster after the opponents implement? How does one go about preparing for this? Is it having better coaching? better players who don't have to have everything perfect to make plays to withstand strong adjustments by opponents?

Good stuff.

2 points
2
0
Gman1976's picture

November 26, 2020 at 04:26 am

Did anyone notice that Rodgers was smiling while talking with opposing players after the game? I don’t know if I would have noticed it except I read a comment about the same thing after a previous loss. Not sure if it’s just good sportsmanship or just not as hungry for wins or what. Just an observation.

0 points
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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

November 26, 2020 at 07:09 am

Someone posted comments giving credit to Mennenga for Scott's improved punting - obviously this was last season. I am guessing that Mennenga isn't lining up to take credit for Scott's punting this year.

I don't think Mennenga coaches Crosby except in the most general sense. Scott is young, so maybe there is tinkering with mechanics. Bradley is fairly young and new to the NFL. Same for him. I am more interested in the coverage on kicks and punts, and the prowess of the return teams than on the specialists themselves.

1 points
1
0