Confessions of a Polluted Mindset: A Packers Brain Drain
Random thoughts swimming around in the Packers' section of my brain.
By JerseyAl
Jimmy Graham: So it appears he will be back. While I understand the whys of the move, based on what I saw from him, I'm not thrilled. HEe ran poor routes, looked slow running those routes and after the catch, did not make the tough catches (even before the broken thumb) and was not the red zone threat he came advertised as. My only hope is that he comes to camp in a lot better shape and that LaFleur has a better idea of how to use him properly.
Le'Veon Bell: This one won't go away, so... if anyone reading this really believes the Packers should go spend major dollars to get this guy who turned down 14.4M/yr, please explain it to me.
An Illusion of complexity: This is the first catchphrase of the Matt LaFleur era in Green Bay, Davante Adams talked about it and what LaFleur has in mind for him, "...moving me around, to get me different ways to get touches too is going to be big -- moving me inside, outside, just different opportunities, putting me in spots where I can really maximize my potential."
Jaire Alexander: According to Pro Football Focus, Alexander contested n NFL-leading 36.7 % of passes thrown to the receiver he was covering. Not too shabby, Rook...
CheeseheadTV Draft Guide: Work has begun on our 9th annual draft guide - the ONLY one written specifically for you, the Packers fan. Every year we upgrade the talent involved and this year hopes to be a major jump in what we have to offer. Just keep this in the back of your mind and help support this effort and the site when it's available to order.
Jeff Janis: Our Lord Janis had some pretty interesting things to say about his time in Green Bay. Lack of confidence in McCarthy's decisions and play calls, lack of positive reinforcement from Rodgers and other things. Good stuff comes in at the 25:00 mark.
* The ire of Aaron Rodgers
* #Packers archaic route concepts
* Capitalizing on opportunities but confusingly never getting more
* #Browns culture under Hue
* Being a cult hero & having no idea whyBrilliant @jrjanis appearance on @DavisMattek show: https://t.co/dgtRe37DJT
— Evan Silva (@evansilva) January 30, 2019
Some great stuff on the Patriots' use of running backs in the passing game from Dusty Evely, who by the way, will be bringing his film work to CheeseheadTV. Click on the tweet to see the entire thread of his video clips and screenshots.
I keep coming back to this. The way the #Patriots use their running backs in the passing game is terrific. A bit of old school West Coast offense married to some more modern looks. They're content to look for the shots but take the easy play when it's available. https://t.co/WKjWSchiOs
— Dusty (@DustyEvely) January 29, 2019
__________________________
"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
Comments (60)
HankScorpio
January 30, 2019 at 05:44 am
I really hope the reports of keeping Graham are wrong. I cannot have any confidence in an organization that decides it is a good idea to give him another $9 mil on top of the $13.25 mil they gave him last year. I've read all the attempts to justify that choice. None come close to convincing me.
Tactically, I like the way Gute approached the job. But in the end, it comes down to making the correct call on talent. TT's reliance on the draft was fine as long as he drafted well. When he stopped drafting well, he became worthless. It's good that Gute is looking for veteran player additions but if he's going to pick guys like Graham, he's just as worthless.
Lare
January 30, 2019 at 05:52 am
I agree. Every GM is going to have hits and misses when it comes to player acquisitions. Hopefully, them keeping Graham on the roster is because all the new coaches think he'll be a big contributor to their success next season, not because Gutekunst isn't able to admit that signing him for the money he did was probably a mistake in the first place.
Coldworld
January 30, 2019 at 09:10 am
I am not generally one to blame coaches, or to listen to former player disparagement, but I have wondered for some time why we couldn’t find some role for Janis that enabled him to do what he could do and had shown he could when forced to use him rather than try to make him do what he showed he could not.
Why is Janis relevant at this point? Well I think it ties into the use of the TEs and RBs and even Valdez Scantling. I do think some of it is Rodgers but at root, I have come to believe that it was a rigidly in play strategy coupled with falling out of step with the modern game.
Enough has been said about TEs in recent articles, but look at RB. Williams catching and screen ability shown in 2018 was seldom incorporated into the offense in 19. Two very different RBs were largely asked to play the same game. To Al’s point contrast this with the Patriots’ use of RBs. You can expand that comparison to other skill positions—they have prospered with WRs that we’re otherwise not standouts for years.
One wonders what Belicheck could have made of Janis. I wonder what Brlicheck could have done with Williams, Jones, Graham, Lewis and EVS etc if he was forced to Coach last year’s GBP roster.
That wondering leads me to believe that we managed to undermine ourselves on offense. I do believe late TT era roster management undermined the roster, but I have come to the view that late MM era coaching completely devalued what we did have.
For the above reasons in large part, I am not sure I buy into the fashionable Graham analysis for example. I am copping out by saying That I don’t know what Graham can do for us this year because what they had him and others doing this year seems totally inappropriate.
For that reason I am glad that MM is no more. I am equally glad that most of his staff, including Phibin, are gone on Offense. We were so far down a blind alley in my opinion that only a complete clear out of thought and method can succeed.
Now the big problem: Rodgers is steeped in and in part has driven part of that impetus. To get the team back, we not only need Rodgers healthy, key roster enhancement from Gute (think multiple rushers, true safety etc) but the new team needs to be successful in giving Rodgers a mental cleansing.
That will be as a very tough ask given his status, salary and role. While it needs to be accompanied by a new offensive philosophy and play book, this is, I think, the critical determinative challenge that will decide if his last years can bring the success he and we crave.
Qoojo
January 30, 2019 at 10:56 am
Janis Janis Janis. The guy didn't even play football last year. He's just not that good. He flashed, but was inconsistent. Every team had an opportunity to sign this packer fan dubbed future HoFer after the browns (aka GB east) released him at the end of training camp, but not one team did.
jeremyjjbrown
January 30, 2019 at 07:18 am
I hope keeping Graham means they will cut Perry.
fthisJack
January 30, 2019 at 08:30 am
it would have been worth a try if the contract wasn't so crippling. big money for 3 years to a TE on the downside of his career? it should have been 2 years at most with a way to bail out the second year if he didn't pan out. but then the Packers probably wouldn't have gotten him and dodged that bullet. Ball better sharpen his pencil.
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 07:13 am
"My only hope is that he comes to camp in a lot better shape and that LaFleur has a better idea of how to use him properly."
I think there a fair bit of finger crossing going with the change in offensive scheme, and the Packers trying to figure out whether they can protect draft capital in a year with a deep TE group (i.e. we can get a guy on day 2 or 3 we think we can develop, but won't play right away, and save early picks for other needs) by trying to wring at least one more useful year out of Graham. If Graham plays better in 2019, it creates an interesting issue in 2020...assuming they develop other talent at the position.
Some people point to the injury report and say he was nursing a knee, but I don't think he's practiced on a Wednesday since he hurt his knee several years ago. There were reports that he was in Europe last off-season getting stem cell treatments. Some vets never practice mid-week. To his credit, he plays every week...Packers just need him to be more impactful in his play.
Community Guy
January 30, 2019 at 07:52 am
insightful comment.
The TKstinator
January 30, 2019 at 08:34 am
Agree,
But a few more ALL CAPS, extra exclamation marks, misspelled homophones, and a “chicken little” type of mood would be welcome too!
(Or should I say “to”?)
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 09:50 am
~~~~~
Packer_Fan
January 30, 2019 at 07:11 am
As far as I am concerned, Graham wasn't used right. Lewis was used right. Bennett from two seasons ago wasn't used right. I remember when Bennett was signed and with Montgomery in the backfield, everyone talked about all the mismatches. Never were any because the coach didn't design plays to the strengths of their players and made it easier for them to get open. Short passes with picks and screens to get an easy throw to the open receiver. The biggest problem was not the player, but the coach designing and calling the plays. I hope Lafleur uses some of McDaniels ideas.
And watch out LA, the Patriots may just dink and dunk their way to another Super Bowl.
Razer
January 30, 2019 at 07:22 am
...And watch out LA, the Patriots may just dink and dunk their way to another Super Bowl...
It is remarkable what the Patriots are able to do without WR horsepower. Love him or hate him, Belichick will coach the crap out of his team and make Mahomes think about a million things. Should be a good game.
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 07:25 am
I would argue that MM didn't adjust much of what he did to match his personnel. Nelson leaves, put 3 rookie WR in the mix, add Graham and Lewis---still play a lot of 11 personnel. People may still argue that it was #12 changing plays, but the coach gives him his personnel groups.
Was Lewis used incorrectly? His calling-card in recent years in the passing game was as an outlet/red-zone threat, not as a dynamic TE. I've heard repeated rumblings that his blocking was not up to what was expected of him in 2018...and that was his bread-and-butter.
fthisJack
January 30, 2019 at 08:38 am
he sure didn't get many snaps ….which surprised me. It sure was a head scratcher.
Coldworld
January 30, 2019 at 09:16 am
Lewis was barely used at all. Either he is literally a spent force physically or MM pretty much ignored his presence in game planning or design.
As I said in an earlier reply, I think this is one symptom of a much wider issue of which Graham is also part.
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 09:52 am
Roughly 20% of offensive snaps. Graham was over 70%. Kendricks around 25%.
Not a surprising number for Graham, but I expected more PT for Lewis going into the season.
RCPackerFan
January 30, 2019 at 07:23 am
Jimmy Graham:
I recall during training camp a lot of reporters were really impressed with Graham. How impressive he was with his route running and with his skills. Then he got hurt and was never the same. Last night on the Mike Heller show, Bill Huber from the Packer report was talking about the very same thing.
I really wonder how much of whatever injury he had, affected his play. I'm sure it contributed.
I know I'm in the minority about it, but I'm fine with bringing Graham back. In a new scheme we will probably see Graham getting used differently. Also if the reports are true that he played through an injury maybe a year of health will improve that.
For me I want them to improve the depth at TE. Use a higher draft pick on a TE and finally invest into the position.
I honestly wouldn't mind seeing them going after a FA like Cook. Adding Cook would give them a lot of versatility.
Le'Veon Bell:
If he came at a decent price, sure. But we know that won't happen. I go with Jones, Williams and a draft pick.
An Illusion of complexity:
The more I hear about what LaFleur will be doing, the more I like. He is already winning over Adams who is one of the most important players on offense.
Jaire Alexander:
STUD! I can't wait to see him and King together. Hopefully we can see both of those guys together for a full season. Also I think Jackson is a guy to really watch. He was a lot better the last few games of the year. I hope they resign Breeland. And I like Tony Brown. With this group, they have the makings to be the best in the league! And it starts with Alexander.
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 07:29 am
You're right: if there's one thing Bell has proven, it's that he's not looking to give much on his contract. I'm not a fan of paying anything close to what he'll be asking for a guy who's way too close to 30 at a position that seems to see tremendous attrition (and not just with the Packers) every year. We've seen in recent years that teams can win with dynamic, bell-cow runners. They can also win with role players used correctly. Those guys come later in the draft and much more cheaply.
Coldworld
January 30, 2019 at 09:19 am
Bell is not going to make a key difference except to the cap. We need more depth and better usage of Williams and Jones individually and in personnel groupings.
RCPackerFan
January 30, 2019 at 09:37 am
Bell has been one of the best RB's in the league since he has came into the league. He will no question help any team he goes to. But he is an older back with a lot of mileage. He also just sat out a whole year. Will that have repercussions on his body? Meaning will he sustain more injuries due to missing the year? And what will the cost be to get him? I'm assuming it will cost a lot of money.
You can find RB's that can make a difference from almost anywhere. Look at Lindsay from Denver. An UDFA was a pro bowler. Look at what CJ Anderson has done for the Rams. Don't need to spend millions for one.
stockholder
January 30, 2019 at 07:55 am
Your not in the minority. Graham was hurt. He played hurt. He didn't hide it. If everyone wants that pass -rusher. Then it was the right move to keep him. To many players regress. Look at Janis, Cobb, Perry. Burn bridges. Mathews, Perry, and Cobbs time has ended in GB. Yes, Draft a Te. But not in the first 3 picks. This may be the year to draft a TE. Problem is; when your rebuilding, you don't always get what you want. Adams is an illusion of complexity! He should be in the slot more. Breeland isn't going to be cheap. You can't pay him 5mil. plus, if he doesn't start. Spend it on a safety.
RCPackerFan
January 30, 2019 at 10:20 am
I also think that Rodgers injury had an effect with Graham. They weren't able to practice together and were not in sync with each other. I think another year together would benefit him.
I want a TE within the first 4 rounds. Since Thompson took over as a GM, they have drafted 2 TE's in the first 3 rounds. Finley and Rodgers. Its time to really invest into the position. They need a faster TE that can stretch the seam.
If Breeland is signed he would be a starter. The starting 3 would be Alexander, Breeland and King. Thats a pretty damn good 3.
They do need a safety, But they should have enough money to go for one.
Thegreatreynoldo
January 30, 2019 at 09:16 am
I remember the remarks about how well Graham still moved from TC.
I remember the remarks about how well Marcedes blocked from TC.
I remember the remarks about Martellus Bennett from TC back in 2017.
I remember AR's glowing remarks about Davante Adams back in 2016.
Kind of a mixed bag at best.
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 09:54 am
With a memory like that, I'll have to make sure I never end up owing you money... ;)
RCPackerFan
January 30, 2019 at 10:23 am
Graham was impressive until he got hurt. Never was the same after that.
Lewis' situation I think was more due to the lack of playing time. Its like McCarthy never could figure out how to use him. He would come in for a play or 2 and sit for a long period of time. He never was able to get settled into a game.
Bennett, yeah, thats a whole other topic.
And weren't Rodgers remarks about Adams true?
Thegreatreynoldo
January 30, 2019 at 10:47 am
"Mixed bag" is meant to imply that some TC hype was warranted, and some perhaps not.
Andy Herman has repeatedly mentioned that Lewis just failed to block the defender. If Lewis can't block, he can't really help us.
stockholder
January 30, 2019 at 10:58 am
Graham - Not so sure. Has trouble leaving his feet. Did not jump and bring it down. (Like I thought he would) Still keep those fingers crossed. M. Lewis was used more for blocking. Finley was 3rd rd. Bennet went ahead of him. Both ran a good 40. So I think your options in the 3rd rd. will be. Jace Sternberger, Dax Raymond, and Kaden Smith. Adams- It took to long. I'm not ready to give up on Jackson. Or Brown. And the packers still have T. Williams. Gute's going to let Breeland and House go.
Dewzy88
January 30, 2019 at 07:25 am
I think we can all agree that we didnt make life easier on any1 that runs routes. That being said i dont see how jimmy is deserving of 10 mil contract...dropped alot of balls that should have been caught. I really hope gutekunst has a much better yr 2. I am tired of having a new tight end every year that is over 30. Even if we do keep graham we MUST draft 1 with one of our first 3 or 4 picks. When Rodgers was in his prime he had Jordy Jones Driver Jennings and Finley. I know we can't be that fortunate all the time. but we can def do better than what we have been doing. It kills us that we've missed so much on 1st round picks in the past on defense. cuz now we have holes everywhere.
Razer
January 30, 2019 at 07:31 am
Wasn't a big fan of signing an aging, non-blocking TE to a huge contract but held out for the best. Even with 4 TEs on the roster, it became evident that Mike McCarthy didn't know how incorporate a TE in the offense. I was impressed with Graham's grit, particularly when he broke his thumb. And, I even saw him throw a block. Not good value for the money but he could be decent value in a new offensive scheme. Resigning him is good continuity for Rodgers and the offense under this transition.
Laveon Bell is a total suckers bet for our locker room and our cap BUT I do think we need to draft another stud RB. Aaron Jones will never finish a season and Williams is decent filler. After that we have very little. I will be looking to see if Gutekunst builds some horsepower in the backfield.
Guam
January 30, 2019 at 08:49 am
Agree Razer. The Packers do not need La'veon Bell and his big contract, but they do need another running back. Jones is an excellent runner but he is not big enough to last a full season as the featured back and Williams is adequate. A good RB in the middle rounds would be very helpful if MLF wants to establish a running game.
Thegreatreynoldo
January 30, 2019 at 09:18 am
Even if GB is 100% confident that Jones can hold up all season, GB still needs to bring in a non-UDFA RB for this team.
Coldworld
January 30, 2019 at 09:23 am
Agree. The draft would be an excellent avenue to do so, as it long has been for RBs.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
January 30, 2019 at 07:58 am
Wondering if LF can incorporate Jones into offense to be more of a receiver coming out of backfield minimizing physical abuse and injury? Keeping him healthy for full season is important. Pick- up another stud RB to be more the runner with enough speed to get around corner for LF's offense. Williams is RB for between tackles.
The TKstinator
January 30, 2019 at 08:40 am
Is Jones a good receiver, or can he develop into one? To this point, I think he’s shown semi-shaky hands, but agree with his shifty change of direction ability, he could possibly be Kamara-ish.
And that would be zoppity!
Coldworld
January 30, 2019 at 09:25 am
Williams appears to me to be more natural as a receiver, but let’s face it, doesn’t appear that developing that aspect was a priority for either.
Handsback
January 30, 2019 at 08:11 am
Keeping Graham to me says the Packers don't have another good option. A healthy Graham and a TE scheme taking advantage of the middle of the field, is a good opportunity for the offense. If you don't take advantage of it, keeping Graham is a waste of money. Bell isn't coming to Green Bay unless it's to clean up his reputation, and sign a prove it deal. Listening to Janis interview....the fact he didn't stick with the Browns is telling enough.
Community Guy
January 30, 2019 at 08:22 am
Packer fan fatigue:
Packer fans are tired of trying to solve corner issues through the draft.. i feel that i cannot even suggest a corner prospect because Packer fans are just like: "we got King, we got Jackson..".
also, it is hard to suggest to Packer fans that the Packers sign another vet for TE because they feel that, post-Jermichael Finley, there have been too many failures at the position. i really liked Maxx Williams coming out of the University of Minnesota, and he is likely going to be available this off-season. rookie TEs typically take multiple years to develop, so..
The TKstinator
January 30, 2019 at 08:44 am
Can a guy like King, who has shown a terrible lack of durability, suddenly change and become durable? Has any previous player been able to do that? Or is it “once hurt, always hurt”?
Agree that when 20 has played, he’s looked good. IF he can stay on the field, I like our corner group.
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 09:57 am
Could it be that he can't take the constant beating of playing press coverage and not off or zone coverage (yes, that can lead to soft-tissue injuries in the legs, too)? I have this nagging feeling that we're going to see him battle injuries throughout his time in GB, allowed to test the market, then blossom somewhere where they don't press.
Leatherhead
January 30, 2019 at 11:19 am
Mike Flanagan comes to mind. John Anderson?
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 03:10 pm
Paul Molitor.
The TKstinator
January 30, 2019 at 03:54 pm
I was thinking Molly too! But can King play infield?
Thegreatreynoldo
January 30, 2019 at 09:29 am
Baltimore is very likely to release either Maxx Williams or Nick Boyle. Both can block, both even have some upside as receiving threats. Either should be fairly cheap - a couple of million AAV. Either would make a fine #3 TE who I wouldn't be ashamed to call a #2.
Maybe some of you folks who watch more non-Packer NFL games than I do know about some other young TEs who might hit FA. I haven't followed Jesse James and some of the others listed by Sportrac as FA TEs,
It certainly sounds difficult to give the "illusion of complexity" with Graham at TE. He's pretty one-dimensional.
MarkinMadison
January 30, 2019 at 09:04 am
The thing with the Patriots routes that Dustin broke down, you really have to have a RB who is going to consistently be able to beat one defender when catching the ball in the flat. I don't think I've seen that in Green Bay in recent years. My recollection could be faulty, but Jones and Williams both seemed more effective with short passes up the middle than shaking and baking out in the flat. I think the Packers need that scat-back type of guy.
Bedrock
January 30, 2019 at 09:09 am
It goes back to route concepts. Get the ball to a running back who doesn’t have to stop his direction...positive yards and opportunity for a lot of yards.
Thegreatreynoldo
January 30, 2019 at 09:30 am
AR has been slow to make the throw to backs and then off-target when he does.
JerseyAl
January 30, 2019 at 12:11 pm
100% correct on both counts.
The TKstinator
January 30, 2019 at 04:01 pm
Agreed! And it sure seems like an easy thing to be good at!
PeteK
January 30, 2019 at 09:21 am
I was very surprised that Graham dropped many of the high passes that took advantage of his height. Also, the videos remind me of The Packer O of a few years ago. In separate seasons Lacey caught 42 and Starks 43.
Coldworld
January 30, 2019 at 09:27 am
Fingertip passes and splint are a bad match. I really think he should have been subbed out of the game plan for several games.
Rebecca
January 30, 2019 at 09:42 am
Tall athletic dedicated with average hands way past prime and Rodgers only wants to throw sideline, deep, or end zone. Graham needs a huge year in 2019. No One Knows. We still need a tight end.
Leatherhead
January 30, 2019 at 10:13 am
How Huge? I mean, given that he had the 3rd most receptions of any Packer TE in the last 25 years...….does he have to set the franchise record?
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 11:16 am
Given that one of those 2 ahead of him was Richard Rodgers in the lost offensive year of 2015, and he managed to catch 8 TDs, I'm not sure receptions help his argument very much.
Leatherhead
January 30, 2019 at 11:28 am
Given that we won 10 games and came within one play of the Championship game, I don't think 2015 was a lost season.
The passing offense, minus our best receiver all season, was still average or better by most measures. I'm not sure how catching a lot of passes is a bad thing.
dobber
January 30, 2019 at 03:08 pm
Are you saying that 55 is a lot of passes, or are you qualifying it by saying that 55 is a lot of passes for a TE in MMs tenure in GB?
blacke00
January 30, 2019 at 09:47 am
So much of the Patriot's success has been scheme driven. So many of their "stars" (sans Brady) never seem to have the success that they had in Boston.
During the B/B era the defenses have been ok to good but never great. The formula revolves around a good QB, a stellar OL, a average to good running game (a product of the OL). And as mentioned attempts at throwing deep but settling for a short passing game with versatile RBs and slot receivers. it's not rocket science, they just perfected the scheme.
I have said this before, their OL makes their team go. Take that away and Brady would look very pedestrian.
Her's never been a scrambler and if he did he would have had a greater risk of injury and we all know where that leads.
Bedrock makes a great point in this regard.
Qoojo
January 30, 2019 at 11:03 am
Yep, any pressure on Brady, and that team folds. Secret of their success is keeping brady clean, and Brady is a very good QB. I wish the packers would follow suit and put more priority on OL. I guess they have, but the draft picks/coaching has been suspect.
bodei1newbie1
January 30, 2019 at 10:09 am
one thing i can agree with you is graham should let him go
2 bell i think the pack shouldn't pick him up
3 i think they should and i know people won't agree but they should try to sign lacy (only if he's at 225 ) or try to trade for mays let's think about that lol
Thegreatreynoldo
January 30, 2019 at 10:50 am
Graham is going to have the highest cap hit of any TE in the NFL (to go with the highest AAV). Last year Crosby had the highest cap hit of any kicker in the NFL (he's dropped to #2 in 2019 so far).
And the beat goes on.
stockholder
January 30, 2019 at 02:53 pm
Every year we want more. More veterans, better picks, better coaching. Good decisions. When you buy a car, you check the history. Kick the tires. Ask Questions. Make sure you can afford it. Etc. The packers tried to fill a need. A sore spot. After a year of changes we now are hurting. We got less then what we hoped for. Let's be honest. Did the packers get the best Te they could. Shouldn't they have done the same thing when you look for a new car. They did when they looked for a new coach. References, interviews, fit, History, etc. It's time management takes that same approach when signing players. They didn't want a coach to cover-up his faults. It was Skills, credentials, creditability, and mind set. Players get disabilities, regress, and live on reputation. Snow jobs can happen. Graham didn't Lose Face. He gets a second chance because of it. The packers are only seeing what they want to see. Their effort to sign the best players, should be like the hunt for a coach. Not emotional.