Adams: Packers 'got a steal' in rookie Savage
-- If running with the first-team defense wasn't enough of a telling sign already, the Green Bay Packers certainly have high hopes for their 21st overall pick.
Darnell Savage pieced together an impressive outing at the team's rookie minicamp and continued his ascension throughout the offseason program, giving him a good chance at a starting safety job -- as expected.
While praise from coaches is one thing, Savage has caught the attention of one of the Packers' most lethal skill position players in Davante Adams. It's Adams who consistently sees most of his practice reps against Savage and demonstrates the nuances of the wide receiver position; a common practice for Adams against any opposing defensive back, let alone a rookie.
Yet, this rookie has turned more than a few heads.
"He's going to be that guy - I can tell. We definitely got a steal," Adams said, according to Ryan Wood of PackersNews.com. The Packers wrapped up their second day of minicamp practices with Thursday's regularly scheduled third practice swapped out for a team-building activity.
The Packers have been reeling at the free safety position for as long as Nick Collins was once roaming the secondary. Several faces have come and gone, including Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, who may very well be the most notable. He was traded to the Washington Redskins at last year's trade deadline after spending the first four-and-a-half years of his career in Green Bay.
Like Savage, Clinton-Dix was selected No. 21 overall in 2014. He was the first of seven defensive backs the Packers would draft within the first two rounds of every draft between 2014 and 2018 with the exception of 2016.
After Clinton-Dix's tenure hit a wall, the Packers experimented with veteran cornerback Tramon Williams at free safety, and while he was serviceable, the 36-year-old is far from a long-term answer there.
It's why Savage may have the highest ceiling and biggest impact of any member of the Packers' draft class. The right fit at a centerfield safety position can completely change how a defense operates -- it also takes away the likelihood of a deep completion, which was an area in which the Packers' safeties struggled early in 2018.
"I know we got him early, but I still think that he could have gone earlier just based on what he's doing out there," Adams said.
The Packers will have a summer recess before returning for training camp in July where they'll be fitting into pads for the first time under the new regime.
__________________________
Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].
Comments (71)
Daren726
June 13, 2019 at 05:51 am
That’s awesome news coming from Adams. I know Tramon had great things to say earlier in camp as well. Of course we’ll see when pads go on, but it looks promising!.
TheVOR
June 15, 2019 at 08:09 am
Right? I mean.. We all know it's about Pad Level, and how will we know until they get the pads on... if his Pad level is worth.. sorry, I clearly have digressed. to a different coaching staff...
4thand1
June 13, 2019 at 06:00 am
The TC hype grows every day. A lot of good hype which is never a bad thing. The secondary needs a hit from the draft after Ha Ha left us not laughing.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
June 13, 2019 at 06:10 am
I hope Adam's is right but this stuff means little now. These players are taught to say the right thing particularly about their teammates.
jeremyjjbrown
June 13, 2019 at 08:17 am
It doesn't mean little. It means he's getting the mental side and the scheme and can cover. Pads off tells little about front 7 guys sure. But for CBs and recievers it can still tell plenty.
Packers2020
June 13, 2019 at 08:38 am
Remember Jackson last year in OTA's and Preseason. Hyped big time yest what happened in the regular season?
I would temper my enthusiasm.
Coldworld
June 13, 2019 at 12:35 pm
There is something in where the positive statement comes from and what it contains. When someone like Williams, Adams, Martinez or Bakhtiari goes out of their way to state that they are impressed with a player’s mentality or grasp of the system or angles then I give that some credence.
Those things don’t require pads to be genuine, are something that someone practicing against the player or next to that player would know, and are made by individuals that seldom speak in such subjects. It doesn’t mean the player has arrived, but it is good that veterans are seeing enough to encourage them enough to put it in record. That’s a little different to reporters and us getting excited from the sidelines or couches respectively.
jeremyjjbrown
June 13, 2019 at 02:09 pm
"Remember Jackson last year in OTA's and Preseason. "
Do I remember Adams calling Jackson a steal?
Nope.
fastmoving
June 13, 2019 at 01:37 pm
"These players are taught to say the right thing particularly about their teammates."
Yeah, sure that makes a lot of sense. After there group meeting they have a lesson in teammate raving. But they want you to think its just here opinion about someone.
Flatearth guys are smart as hell.
porupack
June 13, 2019 at 06:53 am
Nice one KnockSnot,
Seems all my grade school teachers are CHTV packer fans; the same teachers who always tell the class before Christmas, "class, settle down and stop being so excited". Every time someone posts a positive comment or positive assessments, or I guess "hype" seems to be the abhorred word in packer land; we're exhorted to be cynical.
Shouldn't CHTV just shut down until the first game score is posted for all the "prove-it- when-I-see- it" crowd?
Thanks Zach for posting positive team comments from teammates regarding Savage. But now I will be over-juiced with hype, and might be in for a let down if Savage doesn't reach all-pro by December. I can't take another let-down. Oh dear, calm me-self, quick, against the hype. What is that anesthetic line here; "its all just a paper upgrade:. Or the other one; "just underwear practice", and "wait till pads are on".
Funny this admonishment skit at every positive news during offseason. And to think that Adam's probably just gave a sound-byte because he had nothing else to do or say, or like KnockSnot says, he was taught to say the right thing. LOL
Demon
June 13, 2019 at 11:05 am
Poru. I just cant buy in too much on any of the offseason stuff. Honestly several of the fluff pieces even here on CHTV I dont even read, whats the point? Most of these players opinions about another player have been so overdone for years that they are hard to even read anymore.
Last year at this time a poster here at CHTV had the audacity to say that the Packs 3 rookie receivers reminded him of Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Sterling Sharpe. Really? The best 3 wideouts Ive ever seen play. YGBSM! Then goes on to tell me I didnt know what I was talking about when I suggested he curb his enthusiasm before they even took a preseason snap.
porupack
June 13, 2019 at 01:26 pm
Demon, I didn't downvote you, btw, and never do regardless how I might disagree with someone's opinion, reserving downvotes only for personal or provocative attacks.
Regarding that hype on WRs to Rice/Moss, Sharpe; I guess there's still time to 'wait and see'- lol.
Coldworld
June 13, 2019 at 12:47 pm
If you are in grade school, your cynicism is disturbing! If you are not, I think it might be worth applying a filter. What was said, by whom and under what circumstances, before either buying into it on a wholesale basis or dismissing it as manufactured PR. It’s probably in between, and the pads caveat is real. That said, certain things can show up while in shorts or the classroom.
porupack
June 13, 2019 at 01:17 pm
Yes. yes and yes. My only point is, that just because we express some positive vibes, optimism and excitement over some tidbit positive comment, doesn't mean we're runaway hype train, such that fellow posters feel they have to admonish the rest every time. Look, all of us are self-modulating. No one believes Savage is a steal, just because Adams said so. But, we can find it cool signs coming from OTAs; w/o getting admonished once again.
Its a crap shoot whether we got better than 31 other teams got better. All any fan can do is wait and see, and in the meantime, get heartened or braced by positive or negative assessments and developments. Thanks to CHTV for giving us a few things to fret and other things to take hope as we approach the first game. That's all. Hype, or whatever. I appreciate hearing from those who have the time and energy to extract some positive signs. If those positive bits help build anticipation and excitement; cool. If it doesn't pan out. Oh well.
IceBowl
June 13, 2019 at 04:31 pm
Coldworld,
you say ..... "That said, certain things can show up while in shorts or the classroom."
Are you sure?? Can the players actually learn something in shorts?? I was thinking all these days of OTA's and mini-camp were just social and team building activities. You mean they actually accomplish things, learn things?
You are going to shock many posters above. :-)
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
June 14, 2019 at 02:06 pm
Porky,
Too funny!
I dont have the time nor interest in a tit for tat discussion as it relates to your reply above other than once again say 'I hope Savage is the real deal but I do not put much value on those proclaiming a rookie is the real deal at this stage'.
I do agree there have been several positive comments about Savage up to this point and if they keep accumulating I will start hoping for stardom. However, until then I will wait till training camp and end of pre-season before getting my hope elevated.
I think about the DE/OLB rookie about 5 years ago (edit: Jayrone Elliott out of Toledo) who had 6 preseason sacks for the Packers as a rookie and was Pre-season MVP who unfortunately turned out to be a nothing burger. I was so excited about this guy and every year waited for him to break out. Very nice guy but after all the hype and hope contributed little. Very little! So little his name escapes me now. There is good reason I exercise caution when getting excited about rookies. It is based on history year after year when there is a camp darling who never evolves into the player everyone was expecting.
ROOKIES....PROVE YOURSELF!
Packer Dave
June 13, 2019 at 07:01 am
Tramon's comments on him really picking up the mental side of the position are really promising, and I don't think he meant those for hype.
It should make a huge difference to have someone with his wheels in the backfield.
RCPackerFan
June 13, 2019 at 07:05 am
I really am hoping Savage is the real deal. We have been lacking at safety for a while. We haven't had a safety with his speed since Collins left.
A few things should really help Savage. Having Amos next to him. Also having Williams in the same room will be a really big benefit. And Pettine should be a big help to him.
Last year we saw Alexander come in and perform really well as a rookie. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Savage comes in and performs even better.
Freezn
June 13, 2019 at 09:26 am
I believe our Safety combo of Savage and Amos will turn or secondary into more of a scary defensive secondary as we do have a lot of young talent back there
Cubbygold
June 13, 2019 at 10:18 am
How does Savage compare to Eddie Jackson in terms of style/measurables?
Just wondering if Jackson is elite on his own, or if Amos played a big role in his development. Or, is Amos solid because he had someone of Jackson's caliber next to him?
Hoping that GB is watching the exact same situation playing out. Great young FS to complement/learn from Amos.
Coldworld
June 13, 2019 at 12:53 pm
Jackson is a really good player in my view, but the key to the safety position is not only big plays but preventing them. Amos was the preventer. My goodness it has been a long time since we had one of those. I think his ability to be in the right place allowed Jackson to unleash his playmaking. I don’t think two freelancers works in practice, but that seems to be what the Bears are hoping for.
Just my take, but that was a really well balanced tandem as I saw it. If I am right, it can only help Savage develop. Fingers crossed.
jannesbjornson
June 13, 2019 at 07:09 pm
Dominating pass rush and Ed Donatelle running the defensive backfield
should answer most questions regarding Jackson. Pagano knows how to run a defense, so It should be a fun year in the Norris Division. Better be able to run the ball on these guys to get your play action going.
Demon
June 13, 2019 at 07:30 am
There may actually be something to Adams' comments. Adams generally doesnt say much of anything. Hopefully Savage's talent is so great Adams had to rave about him.
Packer_Fan
June 13, 2019 at 07:33 am
Wasn't Savage a three year starter? And not a one year wonder? It just seems to me that he has more experience and probably a bit more maturity which bodes well for the Pack. If I'm wrong tell me.
dobber
June 13, 2019 at 08:23 am
Started 37 games (played in 46) in his four-year career at Maryland.
umterps.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5856
JonathanSpader
June 13, 2019 at 08:33 am
"Savage led Delaware's Caravel Academy to a state title his senior year as a two-way player (1,298 rushing yards, 54 tackles). Maryland coaches got him on the field right away as a freshman, playing him in 10 games (12 tackles) and starting him in the season finale. Savage started 12 games the following year (59 tackles, 3.5 for loss, one interception, four pass breakups) and in 2017, as well. He was an honorable mention All-Big Ten selection as a junior (59 tackles), leading the Terrapins with eight pass breakups and tying for the team lead with three interceptions (returning one of those picks for a score). Savage was a playmaker again as a senior, earning second-team all-conference notice with four interceptions, two pass breakups, and 52 tackles (5.5 for loss)."
jannesbjornson
June 13, 2019 at 07:12 pm
2nd team, ALL- BIG TEN was an absolute joke. He dominated play.
murf7777
June 14, 2019 at 08:30 am
JAnnes, I agree and to put it into more perspective. The 4 First team BIG were rated as DB. So, 3 are CB’s and one safety Amani Hooker drafted in the 4th round. The other two drafted went in the 3rd and 5th round. The last one Levert Hill, CB stayed at MI for his senior yr.
MarkinMadison
June 13, 2019 at 08:25 am
Davante and Tramon didn't have to say anything at all if they didn't want to, or they could have thrown out any of a million lines to defuse the question. Veteran praise doesn't always lead to anything (e.g. Abberderis), but it is better than the alternative. Savage has good tape, good measurables, was a very physical player in college, and it sounds like the veterans think he is adapting to the next level mentally. And let's face it, he doesn't have to be a Pro Bowl caliber player, or even a DROY caliber player to provide an upgrade at the position. So let's relax and enjoy.
dobber
June 13, 2019 at 10:41 am
True. If they were asked directly: "What do you think of Savage's progress/play so far?" Not answering that question directly the way they did would lead the media to run in the other direction. I'd rather build him up than put him in the doghouse early on.
"And let's face it, he doesn't have to be a Pro Bowl caliber player, or even a DROY caliber player to provide an upgrade at the position. "
Absolutely. Given the issues the Packers have had at S and how that trickles down in the defense, I think the overall play of the defense will speak volumes as to how Amos and Savage have impacted the position.
Thegreatreynoldo
June 13, 2019 at 11:00 pm
Abbrederis didn't pan out due to injury, but I think the praise he got was justified.
I don't ascribe a lot of credence when a rookie receives praise, but it is always better to look good than to not look good. It depends on the source. I remember Campen saying that Linsley looked really good during his rookie training camp, which turned out to be justified. Campen didn't say much in general, so I deemed it at least interesting.
Coldworld
June 14, 2019 at 02:08 pm
I think it’s the detail of what is praised. If it’s instincts or natural fluidity that are noticed with specificity, these can show up in shorts. General comments about being a hard worker or just good mean little. One simply can’t judge in shorts and generalizations tend therefore to be mere fluff.
kevgk
June 13, 2019 at 09:01 am
I would not be surprised to see Savage play more slot corner and box safety snaps early and let Amos be the last line of defense in single high while Savage grows into the role.
I'm hoping Savage fits the super safety mold Minkah Fitzpatrick and Derwin James have been in their rookie years, even if they made little impact at free safety.
Let Savage be aggresive attacking the ball and blitzing knowing a veteran and sure tackler can stop broken coverages from being touchdowns.
Cubbygold
June 13, 2019 at 10:21 am
I read something along these lines a few weeks ago, that Savage's best role may be slot corner. I believe that article/comment (can't remember) was arguing that Tre Boston would be the perfect complement for that situation.
Coldworld
June 13, 2019 at 12:55 pm
There has to be a reason why Boston has not found a home. I’ve heard he wants a lot of money, but don’t know whether that’s mere rumor.
flackcatcher
June 13, 2019 at 01:24 pm
Most likely the dreaded trinity of serious injury, playing a devalued position, (which I think is utter BS in a league where the QB is king) and of course, the agent of doom. Frankly, I think Boston is another causality of the on going fight between owners and agents per NFL-NFLPA contract fight.
Cubbygold
June 13, 2019 at 01:28 pm
I wasn't aware there was a serious injury concern. He's been healthy and playing well the last three years.
flackcatcher
June 13, 2019 at 05:53 pm
Sorry, I should have been clear, the reasons were in context of his contract negotiations. It what management would usually bring up in contract sit downs. And I have not of any serious injury report on Boston. But like WR, the wear and tear on groin and calf catches up to DB sooner than later. Unless we fans see it, the teams try not to report it. The under reported effect of sports gambling in today's pro sports.
Thegreatreynoldo
June 13, 2019 at 11:06 pm
74.1 PFF grade and 24th ranking: there has to be some reason why Boston repeatedly remains relegated to afterthought status. Off the field, in the locker room, attitude, something. He earned $1M in incentives last year, so he got almost $2.5M instead of the $1.5M he was signed for.
Doug Niemczynski
June 14, 2019 at 01:11 pm
I agree old school. However, you want to packlage it. Yes,we could have maybe moved down and got Savage and added an additional pick. R. Gary better be real steal. And, why do I get 9 thumbs down? Really people? Savage has NOT PLAYED 1 NFL SNAP and he already is a steal? Wake up!!
Coldworld
June 14, 2019 at 02:20 pm
No pick this year has played a down. No opinion on this pick will be credible for a couple of years, maybe 3.
People are excited about his and Gary’s potential. Frankly, I think we need to give both a little time. Savage will likely start but like Alexander, there will be bad with the good as he learns.
There is nothing wrong with looking at a player and seeing possibilities. I think you are likely wrong about the move down, but I don’t care. Gute chose the best he thought he could get. That’s his job and we aren’t in line to replace him.
I can’t ask more than that he aggressive go after improving the team as best he can. Let’s give him and the picks time and see.
You are right we can’t know if individuals will be great at this point. We also have no basis for believing they won’t be. Other than Savage, they have hardly begun working the rookies into competition yet.
Freezn
June 13, 2019 at 09:31 am
I believe Savage is faster than Fitzpatrick or James and will be a more capable safety than either one. Our safeties will be thumper safties
JonathanSpader
June 13, 2019 at 01:23 pm
Darnell Savage Combine:
HEIGHT - 5' 11"
WEIGHT - 198 lbs
ARMS - 31"
HANDS - 9 1/8”
40 Yard Dash - 4.36 sec
Bench Press - 11 reps
Vertical Jump - 39.5 inches
Broad Jump - 126.0 inches
3 Cone Drill - 7.03 sec
20 Yd Shuttle - 4.14 sec
Derwin James Combine:
HEIGHT - 6' 3"
WEIGHT - 198 lbs
ARMS - 33"
HANDS - 9 1/2”
40-yard dash - 4.47 sec
10-yd split - 1.55 sec
20-yd split - 2.59 sec
20-ss3-cone - 4.34 sec
Vert jump - 40 inch
Broad - 11 ft
BP - 21 reps
jannesbjornson
June 13, 2019 at 07:18 pm
Savage is more Free safety, the other guys Strong in the box guys.
Doug Niemczynski
June 14, 2019 at 01:16 pm
Yeah Jeff Janis 6'3. 4.3 speed good hand, solid special teams player, fan favorite yadda,yadda. Couldn't run a route if we drew line's on the field for him to follow l.
Demon
June 13, 2019 at 10:33 am
I dont think any first round pick is a steal. Early draft picks are supposed to to be legitimate NFL players barring injury. It's when a GM starts to think they are smarter than anyone else that the true busts show up.
CalPacker
June 13, 2019 at 12:41 pm
No one knows what the future holds for Savage, but Adams' comment at least temporarily vindicates Gute, and, based stricly on Savage's tape at Maryland, I would not be at all surprised if the vindication holds up. I for one was ecstatic about the pick on draft day...
Leatherhead
June 13, 2019 at 05:14 pm
I think Aaron Rodgers was a steal. If the 2005 draft was done over, he’d be the first pick.
IceBowl
June 13, 2019 at 09:58 pm
Old School,
I believe at least 20 other teams believe the same.
IceBowl
June 13, 2019 at 09:57 pm
Demon,
You say ... "It's when a GM starts to think they are smarter than anyone else that the true busts show up."
So Mr. Demon, you sound like you are smarter than what we have. What is your process to select Pack draft picks? You sound like you have a better process than our GM.
Enlighten us Oh Wise One.
Demon
June 14, 2019 at 11:09 am
Ok Ice hole you Dash and old school are the same person right? There are hundres of exmples of where a gm reached for a player. Would you like me to give you examples of the great Ted Thompsons? Did Ted ever draft a player from the U of Podunk that nobody had ever heard of where you asked yourself WTF is that?
Go look for a fight somewhere else!
IceBowl
June 14, 2019 at 09:21 pm
Demon,
Sorry you have trouble reading/writing my name. No problem, many have issues.
My question was .... "So Mr. Demon, you sound like you are smarter than what we have. What is your process to select Pack draft picks? You sound like you have a better process than our GM."
I asked for your enlightened solution. You/anyone can easily criticize, as many do, but I asked for your solution. Are posts like yous smarter than our GM? Better ideas. Better picks.
Anyone can come back with an attack on me, here I am!!! You sounded like you had an intelligent solution but instead you attack.me. But your response shows you would rather attack than validate. LOL.
WTG, buddy!
Rossonero
June 13, 2019 at 12:22 pm
It's a high compliment from Adams and one worth paying attention to. Hope he's the real deal!
IceBowl
June 16, 2019 at 11:43 am
Rossonero ,
Adams is a pro. and uncoverable. Yeah. I think his opinion is a valid observation.
cheesehead1
June 13, 2019 at 12:28 pm
I love all the optimism about Savage, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves, the pads haven’t even come on yet. By all accounts he could be a stud safety, only time will tell.
WestCoastPackerBacker
June 13, 2019 at 04:42 pm
So you love the optimism? Fine, that's all this is.
porupack
June 13, 2019 at 08:30 pm
Harrah, harrah. Another classic admonishment; the "wait till the pads come on". Right up there with; "its all just upgrades on paper" and "they all look good in their underwear". "TC hype train" and "let's put on the brakes". "Let's not get ahead of ourselves":
Precious nuggets. I'm keeping tabs now.
fastmoving
June 13, 2019 at 01:48 pm
But its nothing wrong that we are happy he is off to a good start. Not more not less. And we all know what time of year it is, no need to get reminded all the time....
Ferrari Driver
June 13, 2019 at 06:05 pm
I sure hope so. If we got a steal in Savage, we got robbed in Josh Jones.
I hope Gary can be a terror for our defense and that would make for one terrific draft.
jgando12
June 13, 2019 at 06:30 pm
As a Cheesehead community it is always nice to read intelligent discussion. It’s normal to want our Pack to be better. And God knows, we have nowhere to go but up..particularly in the secondary. Heck, da Bears posted HaHa is better than Amos and we KNOW that’s a lie. The unfortunate side of discourse is that there are always fans who enjoy tempering enthusiasm any chance they get. So be it. Must be what constant lite beer and cold brats does to some folk. Go Pack!
stockholder
June 13, 2019 at 07:14 pm
Adams thought Moore would be too. It just might take longer then anyone plans. Big difference in a 4th round pick and first.
4thand1
June 13, 2019 at 09:26 pm
No reason to freak out, we got 2 first round picks. On paper and word from the players, things are looking good. We'll see soon enough.
IceBowl
June 13, 2019 at 10:05 pm
4thand1 ,
As you say, we got 2 early picks. Plus the rest. Yes it is nice the players speak well of each other too. It's the time of the season.
What we will see is that we have ARod, and a very capable compliment of players and coaches.
greengold
June 14, 2019 at 01:15 pm
There was no other player that I wanted the Packers to select in last draft than Darnell Savage. We did steal him from a number of teams just below the #21 pick we traded up to in order to get him.
You might forget, we have Milt Hendrikson as Director of Football ops. He knew Ravens wanted him, as did the Colts, Chargers, Seahawks. Ravens traded out of 22 immediately after we took Savage.
The Packers may have drafted 2 Pro Bowl players in Round 1 this year.
jannesbjornson
June 14, 2019 at 09:10 pm
Seattle would have selected him to fill for Thomas , but Schneider needed draft picks to fill the depth he lost with early retirements due to injury. He was the anti-Ted trading his top dog, Clark for a One pick from K.C. and using the fours to maneuver in the early rounds. If Gutekunst didn't pay the asking price the top-rated safeties would be off the board when Abram going to Gruden @ 27. Safety was an Absolute Need in this draft. Savage was being targeted by Belichick among others. Gary was projected from #6 to # 8 for Detroit.
IceBowl
June 14, 2019 at 08:24 pm
greengold,
If you are right, we will start by pounding it into our first weeks opponent.
Go Pack.
greengold
June 15, 2019 at 07:20 am
I can get behind all of that, IceBowl! I honestly believe he will be a very special player for us in GB for years. This is just the start of something very big. Give the kid 2-3 years in the system and look out. Darnell has it all. We will see things we haven't seen in GB in nearly a decade. A premiere pass rush coupled with great LB and DB play.
IceBowl
June 15, 2019 at 09:40 pm
greengold,
It sure looks bright and shiny now. They have quite a while to "polish" up the product.
But like you, I think "polish" they will do.
Doug Niemczynski
June 15, 2019 at 11:14 am
Tony Mandarich was a steal at #1
IceBowl
June 15, 2019 at 09:36 pm
Doug,
I have to say you and the media made a great pick.
PackfanNY
June 15, 2019 at 02:02 pm
Who really knows how it turns out. However, no denying the speed of Savage and Alexander is something we haven’t had on the field for a long time.