Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Rodgers-Free Zone
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
Rodgers-free - I'm doing you all a favor here - there will be no polluted thoughts in this article regarding one Aaron Charles Rodgers. We all know pretty much everything the Packers do over the next few months will completley depend on what Rodgers wants to do and I think we've kind of covered it enough for now, dontcha think?
Draft Season - There will be some draft profiles popping up on the site soon, so keep an eye out for those opportunities to enjoy more Rodgers-free content.
Whats in Storer? - I really like the Packers' hire of Byron Storer as assistant speciial teams coach. Storer coached under new special teams coordinator Rich Bisaccia the last four years with the Raiders. I like this hire not because I know anything about Storer, I just think it will help immensely that there will be another voice that already understands and can communicate what Bisaccia expects from his players.
Point of No Return - Speaking of special teams, a very underrated to-do for Bisaccia will be finding a real returner, especially for punts. One with sure hands that makes the right decisions would sure be nice. If he can gain a few yards from time to time, that would be nice, but not a strict requirement.
An Apple for Kupp - I have no idea how you decide to single-cover Cooper Kupp in the end zone with Eli Apple, of all people, as the Rams are going for the potential game-winning score. It's insanity.
Kupp vs. Adams
A few weeks ago, I sent out a tweet saying that despite how good Davante Adams is, in the game's biggest moments, I'd rather have Cooper Kupp. This was heresy to most Packers fans and I got plenty of pushback. That was totally understandable and expected, it's hard to have such polluted thoughts about your own team's star player. Early in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl, I reiterated the feelings of my oroginal tweet and this time there was less opposition. Thirty minutes later, Kupp was a Super Bowl champion and the Super Bowl MVP.
Kupp has the drive and the will to force good things to happen. You can double or triple team him and he'll still fight to somehow get open. There can be two defenders draped all over him, and Kupp will find a way to catch the ball. There will be three would-be tacklers waiting for him after the catch and Kupp will somehow make them miss. This is no knock against Adams. Watching him, you have a great appreciation for his grace, skills and overall talent. But does he fight through adversity like Kupp does? You just can't say he does. He's likely the most skilled WR in the league, but give me the guy that will plunder your soul no matter what you try to do to him. I'm curious how you all feel about this. Try not to let recency bias seep in and answer the poll with your honest feelings on this.
Cooper Kupp or Davante Adams - Who do you want for YOUR Super Bowl contending Team?
By JerseyAl
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (92)
Since'61
February 16, 2022 at 06:27 am
Great article Al as usual. I appreciate the Rodgers free zone.
I was thinking 2 things about Kupp.
First, wouldn’t it be great if Kupp or another WR like him was paired with Adams. Then the Packers would have legit #1&2 WRs.
Second, when the chips were down Stafford threw only to Kupp similar to what a GB QB does with Adams.
Bisaccia needs an LS and a punt returner as you correctly point out. Thanks, Since ‘61
Coldworld
February 16, 2022 at 08:20 am
Stafford throwing elsewhere throughout the game perhaps opened the door to facilitate his success throwing mostly to Kupp then. It’s quite possible that the coverage Al alluded to was in part because they hadn’t been able to settle into predetermined multiple coverage on Kupp as the 49ers had clearly felt comfortable doing by later in their game against us.
Since'61
February 16, 2022 at 09:11 am
There is no question the 49ers set up
their double coverage better than the Bengals. Adams was unstoppable in our regular season game with them.
I expected that the 49ers would be better prepared for Adams in the playoff game. I thought that our game plan for the playoff game would have included using Adams as a decoy to draw coverage away from our other receivers but MLF commented that the passing game plan was to go through Adams. If that’s true it should have been adjusted at halftime but obviously wasn’t. Maybe due to MVS being unavailable, we’ll never know.
One of the problems for the Bengals was that the Rams have better WRs behind Kupp who need to be accounted for, especially Jefferson. But Apple on Kupp is insanity as Al correctly pointed out. Thanks, Since ‘61
flackcatcher
February 16, 2022 at 01:48 pm
Apple on Kupp: Secondary injuries dictated that matchup. Give Stafford credit and the Rams setting up routes to pick off Apple in coverage. As you say '61, adjustments. Rodgers and the trust issue became a real problem in the latter half of the season, he and Adams were so good that Rodgers had no reason to look at any other WR. The lost of MVS crippled this offense in so many ways. Not only his ability to bust cover 2, but his blocking on the bubble screen and in general was sorely missed. And he was the only WR outside of Adams that Rodgers truly trusted. That is also on Lafleur for not opening up the route tree to comp for losing MVS. Sometimes it's not the player, but how the team uses them that determines who wins. (See Adams. See Kupp)
croatpackfan
February 16, 2022 at 10:40 am
Exactly, Coldworld. Cooper Kupp did not see one throw to him in the whole first half and almost whole 3rd Q. That is why Bengals put Apple on him. He looks like he is not threat to them, as game for more than 3/4th looks like Kupp was out of the game. And that is how you made game plan based on Cooper Kupp. You just wait for the moment he would be forgotten man on the field.
Packers1985
February 16, 2022 at 12:56 pm
Actually kupp did get a touchdown in very start of the 2nd qtr and also before that Most of the touches were either going to OBJ or Van Jefferson both of them were comparatively better than our wr 2.
Coldworld
February 16, 2022 at 02:15 pm
Yes to the first point, more skeptical on the second, since OBJ is most nearly compared to Cobb: great when available but fleeting. Van Jefferson is just OK.
BruceC1960
February 16, 2022 at 12:17 pm
Is there any truth to the “rumor” that when the Packers traded up in the 2020 draft, they were after Justin Jefferson? Since he was gone, they took Love. Justin Jefferson and Devante would have been interesting. I don’t recall the timing on when the trade up was done. Jefferson was taken a few picks before the Packers turn.
jannesbjornson
February 16, 2022 at 12:52 pm
Most mocks had Philly taking Jefferson. The trade up would cost too much. Targets could have been Aiyuk, who Gutedkunst scouted two years running or Reagor.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 06:58 am
There is no truth to the Packers trading up for Jefferson.
My take was that Jefferson was who the Packers wanted all along. Jefferson was my top choice but I knew with the Vikings having 2 selections just a few selections ahead of the Packers they would take him. The Vikings took Jefferson with their first of two first round selections. It was only after the Vikings second selection (OLB) that the Packers announced the trade up.
Jefferson and Jordan Love were my favorites in the spot the Packers were drafting. As soon as Jefferson was selected I told people at my draft party the Packers were taking Jordan Love. Once the Packers announced the trade I absolutely knew it was for Jordan and I could not contain my excitement. I believe Jordan Love is going to be a good QB. Nothing in the limited opportunities Love has had has changed my belief. I think the Packers know he is raw but his talent is obvious and his upside significant. I am excited about the future with Love at the helm. Guaranteed? No, but I feel good about Jordan.
Swisch
February 17, 2022 at 10:49 am
Good stuff, Knock.
I, too, am very hopeful about Jordan Love.
Minniman
February 16, 2022 at 01:32 pm
As the commentators said at the time, that SB TD was set up by the innumerable times that Kupp blocks on that play - this time though, he fakes it........and sneaks out into the open.
That is the quintessence of why I voted for Kupp over Adams. He blocks and harries like Lazard, then demonstrates footwork like Adams.
Nobody
February 16, 2022 at 05:07 pm
I will take Cooper Cupp over Davante Adams anyway of the week!!!
Nobody
February 16, 2022 at 05:12 pm
Cooper Kupp should have been voted league MVP not choke again A. Rodgers.
NickPerry
February 16, 2022 at 06:54 am
AWESOME!!! Thank you Al...
I didn't even hear about the hiring of Byron Storer, but like Al, I couldn't agree more that it's a good hire not to mention it's a SMART hire. What better way to convey your message than to hire a guy who's been part of Bisaccia's process on ST and what he expects. So far so good on the ST for 2022. Considering the Packers lost that game against the 49ers on TWO pretty basic plays (Lancaster let the inside guy run free on the FG, and the 49ers blocked the punt rushing just 6 IIRC) they need all the voices they can get.
Well, I'm assuming they know not to put Lancaster on the edge to block, or having a LS who weighs more than 225 pounds since I DO!
It's a tough call, Kupp or Adams. I love Davante Adams and I do think he's one of the absolute best in the NFL. But I also think he had/has a HUGE advantage to pad his stats. Rodgers for the most part ONLY throws to Adams, not just with the game on the line, but almost all other times too. For all the good I think Gute has done, he's TOTALLY blown the WR position the last few years.
That WR room is a damn mess right now. ESB MVS, Adams, Lazard are all possibly gone next year leaving who? Winfree and Rodgers???
UGH!!!!!!!
Since'61
February 16, 2022 at 07:15 am
Good post Nick! Agree on the Storer hire.
The WR room is a mess and could be empty if they all move on as you have correctly posted. Not to mention that if Tonyan can’t return due to injury and Lewis retires we’ll have a nearly empty TE room as well. Stay safe. Thanks, Since ‘61
mrtundra
February 16, 2022 at 07:52 am
We'll also take a step back at the LB position if both Campbell and Zadarious go, which is likely, if we keep our MVP.
Since'61
February 16, 2022 at 08:07 am
Excellent point Mrtundra. Thanks, Since ‘61
Thegreatreynoldo
February 16, 2022 at 07:53 am
Kupp got 31.8% of all targets in the LAR offense.
Adams got 29.65% of all targets in the GB offense.
Great receivers get tons of target. Stafford had Kupp-vision just like AR had Davante-vision, and with less cause as Stafford had Woods and then Beckham plus Van Jefferson to toss the ball to.
IDK if Stafford ignores other open receivers - maybe so.
Since'61
February 16, 2022 at 08:14 am
TGR I would not have expected Kupp to get a higher percentage of targets than Adams especially since the Rams have several excellent WRs. I appreciate the information.
Thanks, Since ‘61
Coldworld
February 16, 2022 at 08:44 am
Kupp was healthy throughout and appeared to be the one that Stafford was comfortable with starting the season. It would be Interesting to see how that evolved, but he was heavily targeted again after they lost Woods and while OBJ settled in right at the end of the season. They struggled with just Kupp and Van Jefferson
Johnblood27
February 16, 2022 at 10:19 am
numbers, numbers, numbers... statistics do not always tell the story.
Much like in regular season schedules it isn't always who you play, but when you play them that matters.
WR targets are like that, it isn't always how many you get, but when you get them that really matters. Predictable patterns can be stopped by observant defensive coaches with adequate plans.
Throwing to other receivers in varying downs and distances create opportunities for your #1 to be available. Diversity of play and target will create offensive successes if your playcaller has a plan and the QB will execute said plan.
jannesbjornson
February 16, 2022 at 12:54 pm
Within 2.8 seconds to release of the ball.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 16, 2022 at 03:54 pm
As noted in my comment below, on the 15 play (18 including penalties), 79 yard, game winning TD drive, Kupp gained 50 of those yards, including a 4th and one, and he touched the ball on 8 of the plays. Each touch resulted in a positive play. He was clutch and during crunch time, he saw a lot of targets.
IDK know if there was diversity of plays by down and distance compared to the rest of the game. I do know that Kupp touched the ball a lot during crunch time.
Tingham
February 16, 2022 at 01:09 pm
Not sure what the advanced stats say but it also appeared Stafford had a lot more time and a lot less pressure. I still say not having our All Pro LT for two consecutive playoff runs is the biggest contributor in not advancing.
Packers1985
February 16, 2022 at 01:17 pm
Secondly we had to shuffle our oline almost every other game because of injuries which kind of hurt the offense's rhythm.
Coldworld
February 16, 2022 at 01:46 pm
Well, we didn’t need to shuffle it for the playoff game. We just chose to. In retrospect, seemingly unwisely.
BirdDogUni
February 16, 2022 at 01:55 pm
You're too kind.
It was stupid to shuffle the OL for the Playoffs. I realize I don't know everything that was happening at the time, but Yosh should've been at LT if he was able to play.
Grandfathered
February 16, 2022 at 10:34 pm
I agree BDG. Unexplained as to why shake up the OL in the playoff. On a separate note, can I ask what breed of bird dog is in your photo?
BirdDogUni
February 16, 2022 at 10:42 pm
English Pointer Female - Sansa... She was a great dog. I miss her.
Grandfathered
February 16, 2022 at 11:28 pm
Looks alot like my German shorthaired Pointer, gone a year now. Missed her last grouse3 season. I'll look up your breed. I am Interested to know if they have scissor bite, webbed feet or come in a wirehaired version. Salut' to hunting buddies past!
MainePackFan
February 16, 2022 at 03:00 pm
Imagine that :)
Tundraboy
February 17, 2022 at 12:20 am
I think it varies, the SB was definitely situational and called for it. With Rodgers I think he has extreme tunnel vision, somewhat out of necessity without inconsistent WR play and availability this year. Adams is it to a fault.
Leatherhead
February 16, 2022 at 09:47 am
Lazard is a RFA and will almost certainly be back, along with Amari Rodgers.
BirdDogUni
February 16, 2022 at 02:53 pm
So, we need to draft a #1 WR with speed is what you're telling me. I totally agree, I just hope Gutey sees it and prioritizes it accordingly.
We also need another 6' 5" 220lbs WR who can catch and block.
We also need another TE, DL, ILBer, S, and OT... If Gutey has a good draft, we can take care of some of those needs.
Minniman
February 16, 2022 at 02:00 pm
What I'm about to say is related to the topic - as opposed to responding to your OP Nick, so don't read anything into it.
Last year at this time I heard Mo D come and and talk the talk - and the players promptly tripped the walk.
So I'm going to hold judgement on ST until I see the players:
1) Maintaining running lanes (and the gunner not over-running the catcher)
2) Kick teams defending the edge rush
3) Catchers showing good, sensible decision making
Having co-ordinators and assistants already familiar with each other (and their teams not a comedy of errors) does give me early confidence though.
EnemyTerritory
February 16, 2022 at 05:53 pm
Seems to me there is a philosophical change needed. The ST cannot be an afterthought but rather an integral part of the game plan. That means the offensive starters may need to pitch in. At least to fair catch at the worst
jannesbjornson
February 16, 2022 at 06:34 pm
Quite a few of those fellows will most likely not make the team going into the '22 Season. If the brain trust retains them, you have a solid point of skepticism.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 07:04 am
I think I can make the case the DL next year, as well as the OLB's (depending on the Smith Bros) likely are a bigger mess than the WR position. You likely can make the same case about TE.
I feel good that the Packers WR position will be adequately addressed. I do not feel as confident about some of the other positions unless Rodgers and Adam's are traded.
DougXX57
February 16, 2022 at 07:00 am
Adams is a great receiver and I want to say that right away.. How would he be with an average QB? Kupp is amazing and that is no secret. Can we keep both Rodgers and Adams? sure but getting back to how to fix this team. We need another very good receiver and I'm happy with the Special Team Hire and I am sure he will fix the problem. I still think we need a better D and keeping Campbell is a must. Why do other teams have a DL with an attitude and we just can't find one. Keep A-rod and Adams and find a way.
Oppy
February 16, 2022 at 12:45 pm
I've mentioned this a few times in recent weeks- Davante Adams was making plays all over the field while Hundley was the QB.
Deciding if player "x" is good or if player "B" makes player "x" look good is simple; stop looking at the result of plays and start focusing on isolating what the player does every down.
Adams is an elite WR regardless of who the QB is. He demonstrates completely unique agility and deception in his footwork during his get-off, shows precise route running, has a huge catch radius, and possesses a 40" vertical.
Oppy
February 16, 2022 at 12:46 pm
Oh, don't forget, great hands and demonstrates high football IQ. :)
BirdDogUni
February 16, 2022 at 03:31 pm
Don't forget the $30 million dollar a year price tag... ; )
I won't be surprised if Gutey re-signs DA, let's him walk, or tags him, or tags and trades him. Gutey has surprised me before, so nothing will surprise me this time.
I guess it all depends on what AR decides. I have no doubt Gutey has a good idea what he wants to do and how he's going to get it done, but he really can't do anything until AR makes his wishes known, even if Gutey knows what they are likely to be.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 07:20 am
Doug,
Love the positive outlook of "let's keep ARod and Adam's and find a way". Sounds too much like a hope and a prayer vs properly building a strong contender built for the long run.
Realistically, after reading everyone else's perspective combined with my own analysis regarding this offseason I absolutely do not see any chance for the Packers to be SB contenders in 2022 with or without the aforementioned players. The cap is too restrictive, key players aging and performance declining, and the Packer overall talent needs at multiple positions are significant.
packerbackerjim
February 16, 2022 at 07:39 am
A ST guy I would hope will be drafted is Marcus Jones from Houston. 2 KRs for TDs, 2 PRs for TDS. He is small and older than most draftees, but also could play CB, 5 INts, if attrition occurs. As for Kupp v Adams, a toss up.
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 07:49 am
Without mentioning any names, I recently came across a couple of books (which I haven't read) that may be important history lessons for the Packers moving forward.
The first, "Collision of Wills: Johnny Unitas, Don Shula, and the Rise of the NFL," is advertised as a story of a talented team of the 1960s that excelled in the regular season but came up short in the biggest of games in ways that were heartbreaking -- including losses to the Lombardi Packers.
The second, "Lombardi's Left Side," is by former Packer greats Herb Adderley and Dave Robinson apparently speaking to character as a key ingredient to the glory of the Lombardi Era. Part of that character was the teamwork of men black and white working together in genuine companionship with each other.
I'm most excited about reading the second of these books, but would like to get to the first one, too. They seem related in discerning how some teams excel over others that are comparable in talent.
Also, during this month celebrating black history, we can be proud of the Lombardi Packers of the turbulent 1960s as being a societal leader of racial integration. It's sports making a positive impact on an entire nation.
Coach Lombardi set a standard of excellence not only of performance but also of character -- with the result that the Packers are the only team in NFL history to win 3 championships in a row, and 5 in 7 years.
To tap into Packers past is to find triumph for the future, as well as a legendary status that comes with doing things the right way. Lombardi did cause a sense of fear in his players to strive for achievement; but what is much more, he created an atmosphere of real friendship and even an inspiring kind of true love.
Razer
February 16, 2022 at 08:15 am
Good information Swisch. Growing up in northern Canada, I wasn't aware of the dynamics that you highlight. I don't know how Lombardi could achieve greatness in small market Green Bay without forging a team out of all races and backgrounds. I was too young to understand character but I see it now as a foundation for my life.
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 10:30 am
I think one of Lombardi's great sayings is about getting back up after we've been knocked down.
It applies on the field and off.
We are frail and flawed and faulty, and we fall more or less over and over again, but we keep striving to be grow in character each and every day.
On a recent trip to Green Bay, my first since the 1970s, I stopped by St. Willebrord's, the church where Lombardi went to daily mass. I think he would actually serve at the altar. There's even a plaque commemorating this notable parishioner of the past.
Bart Starr joked that this was a man who needed to go to church; he also seemed dearly loved his head coach.
As best I understand the story: After Lombardi left the Packers, he visited Starr and his wife at their home in Green Bay. They gave heartfelt thanks to Lombardi as the source for so many of the blessings of their life. The coach misted up with emotion, and left without saying a word. That's the kind of relationship that makes a difference in winning the Ice Bowl.
Like so many of us, Lombardi was a sinful but sincere Catholic availing himself of the mercy of the God of love. He seemed to understand at some level that we find salvation in the realization that love overcomes a multitude of sins.
dobber
February 16, 2022 at 12:47 pm
"Growing up in northern Canada,"
Wait...is there a southern Canada? ;)
WMA
February 16, 2022 at 08:51 am
The Left Side is an excellent book.
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 10:42 am
I don't know if it's in the book, but Herb Adderley in retirement said something to the effect that he loved his father, but didn't think about him every day. He thought about Vince Lombardi every day. Wow!
Although Adderley won a Super Bowl with the Cowboys, he made it clear that he would always think of himself as a Packer.
There was something special about the companionship of that team of the 1960s that seems integral to their unmatched success in the NFL before and after and maybe ever. I actually tear up hearing the personal stories behind that legendary era.
I went to Lambeau Field about a week ago for the first time since my childhood in the 1970s. As awesome as is the gift shop, I was surprised and disappointed that there were very few Packers books.
I really wanted to buy, "The Left Side," which also wasn't available at the nearby Barnes & Noble. I mean, what the hell is going on out there as far as a lack of appreciation for the history of the Packers.
Anyway, I got some good loungewear and a Packers mug for my rambling comments at CHTV ;-).
wildbill
February 16, 2022 at 11:38 am
Lombardi also backed Aldridge who wanted to marry a white woman when that was very much taboo. The story is that Lombardi badly wanted the New York Giant head coaching job but was not considered because he was Italian. Maybe that opened his eyes to the other side of discrimination.
Since'61
February 16, 2022 at 02:54 pm
Swisch I’ve read both books. They are both good reads although I enjoyed Lombardi’s left side better. I would also recommend that you read “Unitas”. It’s an excellent bio of the legendary QB and provides good context for how he played the game and how different the NFL was in the especially in the mid/late fifties even when compared with the 60s.
Enjoy! Thanks, Since ‘61
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 04:26 pm
Thanks, Since'61. I appreciate the recommendations and am glad for your comment.
mrtundra
February 16, 2022 at 07:47 am
I really like Kupp. I feel he is the Rams version of Jordy Nelson. So, it's no wonder I like him!
Ferrari-Driver
February 16, 2022 at 07:43 pm
Jordy Nelson: A nice guy who finishes first.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 07:29 am
I think of many of the great WR's the Packers have had in recent years and they all are extremely quality men both on and off the field. We Packer fans have been blessed with players like Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, Adam's, Cobb, Lazard, and so on.
Fortunately not like TO, Stephen Diggs, Dez Bryant, Chad Johnson, DK Metcalf, OJB, and so forth. You get my point!
Razer
February 16, 2022 at 08:05 am
Not much to say these days but I did enjoy the Super Bowl. Having a solid D-Line stood out to me as the game progressed. Having a suspect O-Line doomed the Bengals. When OBJ went down I thought the Rams were toast but Cooper Kupp made up for the whole WR corps. Both Kupp and Davante Adams have good QBs throwing to them but the difference is a bit more basic. He's younger, faster and cheaper. At this point, a big contract for Adams would be the wrong move for a team facing rebuild.
Not to talk about Rodgers - but - the fear that Love doesn't have the tools to play at the NFL level may force Gutekunst's hand. If true, wasting that pick two+ years ago was the most costly mistake the team could have made.
Love the moves for special teams. We do need to get some more football players for this phase of the game.
Oppy
February 16, 2022 at 12:52 pm
If Jordan Love proves to lack the tools to be an NFL QB, I'm not sure that even makes his a wasted pick.
It's quite literally no coincidence that Rodgers has put together back-to-back MVP seasons after the drafting of Love. Rodgers was spiraling downwards and refusing to take criticism or coaching for many seasons- defiantly telling people there was nothing wrong with his mechanics and he had nothing to work on.. refusing to listen to his coaches and run the new offense as they instructed.
Rodgers was too big for his britches and all it took was the Packers to remind him he's getting old and if he doesn't want to be coached and put in the work, they can, will, and must plan for his replacement with a player who will.
Packers don't draft Love in the 1st and I don't think Rodgers ever stops side-arming throws off his back foot after holding the ball for 4+ seconds every snap.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 07:31 am
Oppy,
Well said and very true!
I have said the same thing many times.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 08:11 am
Oppy,
Well said and very true!
I have said the same thing many times.
Regarding Jordan Love leading up to the 2020 draft 'everyone said he had all the talent you need to be successful in the NFL." A few even compared him to Mahomes in terms of ability and ability to improvise and make a play. These same prognosticators said "he was raw and just needed time".
No more excuses and time should be required. Love has had two offseasons and two seasons to prepare. He has sat behind the leagues consecutive MVP QB two years in a row watching and learning. Jordan will now have his 3rd offseason and pre-season to prepare for the season. We shall see how good of a job MLF, Hackett, and Getsy have done as a QB coaches and offensive minds to prepare him.
No one has even brought this up...but would it be fascinating if Hackett/Denver actually tried trading for Jordan Love rather than Rodgers? Hackett has worked with Love for 2 years now and knows what type of player he is and his potential upside. Now wouldn't that shock the hell out of all of us making us wonder about what kind of talent and upside Love has? LOL!
EricinGB
February 16, 2022 at 08:22 am
Referencing Kupp's TD performance at the end of the Super bowl neglects to mention how many fails there were in attempting to score...only a fantom PI penalty and two more after that gave Kupp multiple chances to score. By all objective (non polluted) analysis, including Xnfl officials, Bengals should have won the game if officiated correctly. Krupp came up up short multiple times prior to scoring. How many downs did LA get inside the 10 yard line? was it 9? Wasn't LA awarded 1st and goal 3 times? Krupp is great, so is Adams...they are both special players. Give Adams a receiving TE and WR as good as LA had opposite Adams and then see what he does. Yes, LA had players good enough that FORCED Bengals to cover Krupp 1X1. While Adams gets double and triple teamed in GB. Polluted comparison indeed.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 16, 2022 at 09:43 am
1/10 LA 21: Pass to TE 9 yards
2/1 LAR 30: Inc. to TE
3/1 LAR 30: Run Akers no gain
4/1 LAR 30: Run CUPP 7 yards 1st down
1/10 LA 37: Inc to RB
2/10 LA 37: Pass to Kupp 8 yards
3/2 LAR 45: Pass to TE 8 yards 1st down
1/10 CN 49: Pass Aker 3 yards
2/7 CN 46: Pass to KUPP 22 fat yards big play 1st down
1/10 CN 24: Pass to KUPP 8 yards.
2/2 CN 16: Run Akers 8 yards
1/goal 8: Inc. to WR Jefferson
2/goal 8: Inc. to RB Henderson
3/goal 8: Inc to KUPP Holding First down
1/goal 4: Pass to KUPP Touchdown nullified Offsetting penalty
1/goal 4: Inc. to KUPP DPI on Apple
1/goal 1: QB sneak no gain
2/goal 1: Pass to KUPP Touchdown
What do I see:
15 plays (18 w penalties), 79 yards
Kupp gained 50 yards: 7 run, 4 penalty 39 pass
Kupp involved in 8 of the 18 plays.
Kupp is the guy in crunch time:
Runs it on 4th down at their own 30.
At goal line, he is involved in 4 of the 7 plays.
I see a positive play every time Kupp is involved in the play.
Kupp was the target on 7 of 14 pass plays on the go ahead TD drive.
50% targeted in crunch time. Ran it also so 8 times in total.
Kupp had a TD nullified by OT holding offset by V. Bell roughing.
Kupp drew two penalties inside the 8. So, yes, new downs.
Coldworld
February 16, 2022 at 10:23 am
The new downs were critical, of course. But I think the salient difference is the 50 percent usage rate of Kupp, including runs by him. That means sub 50 percent of passing targets even in that drive.
Contrast that with us and take out the run options we did not really try. Perhaps that is the reason one worked and drew the coverage that they hoped for, while the other did not. As Mark Twain said, “too much of a good thing is bad.”
Thegreatreynoldo
February 17, 2022 at 07:29 am
"That means sub 50 percent of passing targets even in that drive. "
I am not understanding. I see 14 pass plays and four runs.
Coldworld
February 16, 2022 at 08:50 am
I like the Storer hire because he looks like a classic candidate to replace RB and retain the culture and ideas RB is bringing if RB gets another opportunity for promotion. Change requires continuity and there is a much better chance one of the two can be retained to entrench it.
I voted Kupp on the grounds of youth primarily. I’d happily have either this year. I don’t think either are better than the other significantly, but Kupp may yet grow a little.
Stafford and Kupp put in hours in the off season building a rapport. Apart from Adams, who already has that with Rodgers, our receivers got almost no game time with Rodgers prior to the season. Is there a lesson there for both Rodgers and LaFleur? I think so.
I think it also extends to LaFleur’s handling of Love. Why put a young QB into games where he’s had no time to work with his catchers in preseason or even in the week leading up to the game? In Detroit he had practiced with the starters, but then didn’t play with them.
Lessons, but will anyone learn them? If Rodgers is back and truly wants to win, we should expect to see him take the initiative and put in time outside the team activities with his receivers. I would also look to see LaFleur ensure that both QBs get time with the starters and lead depth in preseason.
Finding it hard to get into the draft as I have almost no idea what shape our roster will have by then and how much in the way of resources for alternative recruitment. This too is in limbo, at least for me.
TXCHEESE
February 16, 2022 at 08:55 am
Kupp reminds me of a bigger Edelman, just gets open regardless, and is a selfless player who goes all out, regardless of whether the play is coming to him or not. That isn't a knock on DA, who I still think is a top 3 receiver for the past multiple seasons. Wasn't DA's fault the QB chose to throw to him exclusively in the divisional game.
As for the special teams, the irony of ironies, was Amari Rodgers was solid in the playoff game, after many of us were wringing our hands leading up to it, just knowing he would be the one muffing a punt or making a poor decision that would cost GB dearly.
jurp
February 16, 2022 at 09:09 am
I thought Am Rodgers was much better at returning punts late in the season. He caught everything he was supposed to and then immediately started upfield rather than dancing to try to make the gunner miss or moving cross-field to try to find a non-existent hole. Perhaps Bisaccia can make a true PR out of him.
HawkPacker
February 16, 2022 at 09:33 am
jurp, I would agree that amari looked much better in the final game. I didn't really notice either way in the few games preceding. hopefully he will grow.
Coldworld
February 16, 2022 at 09:33 am
I agree. I do think confidence is an issue with him. That said, I think we need to have true competition and I don’t think Rodgers is an obvious kick returner to compete with Hill.
x24
February 16, 2022 at 09:13 am
I need some more information in order to properly answer your poll. In your scenario- has Kupp had a few seasons with Rodgers to prove he can be trusted as a receiver?
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 04:32 pm
If that's a wry joke, it's pretty funny. I chuckled out loud.
After all, Kupp came out of obscure Eastern Washington, and wasn't drafted until the third round. Would Rodgers have looked his way on the field?
To me, it'll be fascinating to see if MVS and Lazard and Amari Rodgers, perhaps ESB and Taylor and Winfree, step up after Rodgers with increased opportunities.
In my youth decades ago, whether in the backyard or on the field (4th grade through 9th grade), I know how discouraging it is to run pass patterns without getting targets.
Even trying just as hard in any case, to touch the ball is a rush of fun and adrenaline that increases energy and alertness and confidence and enthusiasm. It's an elixir.
croatpackfan
February 16, 2022 at 11:06 am
Al, thanks for some rest of heated discussions.
Regarding Kupp vs Adams, I voted for Davante. For me, Davante is the best WR today in NFL (so practically in football). And I will always chose him over any other WR, despite he has not top speed, top elusiveness, top blocking ability, but he has the best hands in the world for catching the football. It is not hard to triple cover Davante or any other WR and to stop them by that. As I said Kupp had no targets in the 1st half of the SB. He was double covered. But what make difference between Davante and other WRs are "late hands" which makes him possible to catch unbelievable throws thrown to very, very tight windows and fool the defender, who can not see or feel when the ball is coming to the "basket".
Second amazing attribute Davante has is his quick legs which allows him to brake defenders ankles with just one move. And the last his football intelligence on the field.
People try to diminish his abilities claiming that his excellence is connected with AR. But we saw enough games w/o AR on the helm and Davante was the same. He was catching passes from Packers back ups and still got his stats filled. That is why I say Davante is my choice!
Looking forward to see some draft prospects evaluation and suggestion, can not wait. Also, it look like Packers finally decided to seriously look at ST, what is good.
Coldworld
February 17, 2022 at 11:04 am
I think, to be truthful, at a viable cost, any team would take either in a heartbeat. “Who cares, I will take either” is the phrase that comes to mind if this were a blank draft. The only difference to me is age and current cost. Both are elite. Their differences in strengths largely cancel. Both make their teams better and both seem to be plus individuals in the locker room.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 16, 2022 at 11:20 am
Remember Lofton and Jefferson?
There are only so many touches and these guys tend to be drama queens (OBJ, TO, etc).
It likely also helps Kupp to have some talented guys like OBJ around him.
I do not know whether either WR is better than the other. Both very good! Maybe the better question is Rodgers vs Stafford? When factoring in all considerations (on field & off field) including age I'd take Stafford.
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 02:51 pm
As I've written, perhaps Stafford is the tortoise and Rodgers the hare.
In the long run, it may be said that Stafford has won the fabled race through humble perseverance over arrogant overconfidence.
I'm still rooting for Rodgers, but now it's mostly for him to be humble and coachable and agreeable (and a decent haircut seems like a good way to show the change).
I like Rodgers. I'd be glad to drink Scotch with him. I'd encourage him tone down the melodrama, lay low, just be one of the guys, and to be the best version of himself.
If I was Aaron Rodgers, I'd probably get carried away with myself, too. I hope someone would be there to gently but firmly tell me to snap out of it and get real.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 02:57 pm
S,
Seems like family tried and failed, as well as many girlfriends.
LOL!
I agree with you though that if I had all of Rodgers talents, money, fame and success it would truly challenge me, and most of us on here to be humble and grounded. Guys like Jordy Nelson are rare in any ways. Jordan Love seems very grounded and humble. Time will see whether he can stay grounded and humble.
wildbill
February 16, 2022 at 11:43 am
Was it just me or did the Bengals do nothing to slow the Rams pass rush down? I don’t remember any screens or moving the pocket so the Rams just can’t keep attacking the same position. I know moving the pocket cuts your field and sometimes field position makes screens a bad option but geez Louis the Bengals didn’t have a backup plan for their line being man handled? And don’t even get me started on abandoning the run. Some views from behind Burrow looked like all wr routes were at least 10 yards long, really!?
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 04:21 pm
I wonder if the Packers could be more imaginative on offense along the lines that you suggest, wildbill.
It seemed as though I kept hearing in the preseason and during the regular season that maybe the Packers were keeping their offense vanilla to save things for the really big games -- but then it never did happen, or at least not very much.
At least the Bengals ran a trick play for a touchdown; the Packers rarely, if ever, try one.
On the first drive against the 49ers in the playoffs -- which resulted in the only touchdown for the Packers -- I think there was a jet sweep to Lazard for little to no gain. However, those plays do keep the defense honest, even if they don't break for long yardage.
I do miss a lot in my observations of game, but it seems the Packers were vanilla on offense just about the whole season. Vanilla is good and perhaps underrated, but some other flavors would be good to scoop out at times for a change of pace.
jannesbjornson
February 16, 2022 at 06:51 pm
They did figure out a draw play with Mixon worked by the fourth quarter. This seems to be a common issue with the new "genius " coaches who also waste field position going for a 4th and 1 in the very early first quarter.
Leatherhead
February 16, 2022 at 12:13 pm
The Rams offense is based on a QB to WR pitch and catch. Just like the Packers. It shouldn’t be a surprise since LaFleur and McVay are from the same branch of the tree.
I don’t see a “mess” when I look at our receiving corps for next year, but I do see some great opportunities to add some young talent . For example, we’re going to need a legit #1, so maybe we could get a guy in trade. If not, we’ve certainly found very good WRs on the second day of the draft…..Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Jones, Adams.
MVS will almost certainly get at least one offer that the Packers shouldn’t match, because he does force defenses to account for him. EQ hasn’t shown as much and he might be retainable. Amari and. Lazard will return.
So I would see the WR unit as New Guy, Lazard/EQ, and Amari as our top four WRs. That’s not a mess.
At TE, Lewis is under contract, as is Deguara. Lewis is my kind of TE, a guy who never is hurt, gets his man blocked, and catches a pass or two. Deguara lost his first year to injury but has shown flashes as a blocker, receiver, and runner. As it is right now, they’d be our top two TEs going into the season. Dafney & Co. fill out the unit. I’m not really counting on Tonyan at this point.
But there are at least 5 TEs that are legit Top 100 picks, and I strongly believe we’ll be adding one of them, Throw in Jones and Dillon (who get the ball over half the time), and that’s who we’ll be playing at the skill positions. It may be messy to some, but I see a lot of potential there.
Swisch
February 16, 2022 at 08:03 pm
I hope the Packers make a major effort to keep MVS, although it is possible that some team may make an outrageous offer to him that would make for a difficult decision.
It seems to me the guy is ready to step up as a star, but he's still somewhat of a question mark, including with injuries.
Thing is, Marquez is entering the prime of his career.
Here's hoping we find a way to keep him on the Packers like we did with Aaron Jones.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 03:00 pm
Agreed
stockholder
February 16, 2022 at 12:34 pm
Adams career stats. 669 REC 8,121 YDS 12.1 AVG 66 LNG 73TDs 8 seasons $30,752,746. Roster Bonus 10,218,750 And now he wants to make up for a career? @ 30,000,000.00 a year. (And he can't run under 4.5 anymore.) I'm looking forward to the rookies.
Qoojo
February 16, 2022 at 12:37 pm
I haven't studied the two WRs, but I am not sure how you judge intent or determination while watching tape unless you see the WR simply stop running as he sees more than one defender. Then the "makes the defenders miss" simply sounds like Kupp is shiftier and quicker in tight spaces. I think Adams simply makes it look easier because he is almost untouchable on his release.
It sounds like you prefer Stafford-Kupp because they were more clutch than Rodgers-Adams, and that might be coaching + QB.
Packers1985
February 16, 2022 at 01:10 pm
Even after 3 years of drafting under Gute we still have the same holes like we discuss every off season.
I.e, a Wr, a DL , a TE(except for last yr we had this question these last 3 yrs) and an ILB. I feel only cb group looks settled after these 3 years of drafting up a secondary in first round.
It seems like we had better FA's signings under Gute than the draft picks.
coolhand
February 16, 2022 at 03:58 pm
I don't agree. I think Gute and his team have drafted very well. We got Alexander, Jenkins, Gary, Dillon, Stokes, Slayton, and some other youngsters still to prove themselves.
Tundraboy
February 17, 2022 at 12:12 am
You're definitely right on Kupp. If we are completely honest with ourselves, and true to the Packers history, a heritage, defined by clutch playoff performances, you've got to see that for what it is.
Pack88
February 17, 2022 at 07:47 am
Most of the comments say what I intended but want to reinforce the Kupp has a better cast of catchers around him than Adams does. When Tonyan went down Adams was the lone significant receiving threat on the LOS. Games and circumstances matter and playing in LA and 72 degrees is not Lambeau -6 so impossible to compare the situations. Also highly concur with the 9 plays inside the 10. Officiating sucked, they let them play all game, gave them the most blatant OPI on Higgins and then finally started calling Apple grabbing folks! So, no I don't think Kupp is better than Adams but his running mates OBJ or (Woods) and Higbee are better than Lazard and Deguria. Also the discussion should not be about WR play but the loss of D-Bak probably cost 2 Superbowl visits!
HarryHodag
February 17, 2022 at 08:58 am
The first thing for Packers fans to realize is this team wasn't good enough to win it all. If both Adams and Rodgers return it begins to look like the Packers are doing the exact same thing hoping for another result. In some circles, that defines insanity.
There are 13 free agents besides Adams. Do you let them all go? A new deal for Rodgers and Adams' tag would be about $70 million a year. While you can manipulate the numbers, both of those players would take a too large cut of the pie to make this work. Oh, by the way, they need to make up $50 million salary cap dollars, too.
It's time for a rebuild, like it or not. For the sake of the future, not just now, both players should be dealt. They can be dealt for a cheaper QB and receiver along with picks. That's the future.
By trying to restructure, rework contracts, etc. the Packers are hog-tying themselves for many years to come.
Face it: the party is over and it's time to move forward.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 17, 2022 at 03:04 pm
And there can be a lot of fun as a fan watching team rebuild with young players.
barutanseijin
February 17, 2022 at 06:59 pm
Al, since you asked what our opinions are about Kupp vs Adams, here is mine:
I agree with your thoughts 100%. I have also thought that Adams is technically very good but gets shut down in big games too often to be considered the very best.