Is Brett Favre in the top 5 QB's All-Time?

[packeraaron]

Okay, I'll bite.  At what point in his career was Elway the best QB in the league? 

He was Ben Rothlisberger for his entire career (i.e., that "other guy" who is very good but a click below the best).  Elway (much like Favre) benefitted from his longevity.

Favre on the other hand dominated---DOMINATED---the league for a good 3-5 year stretch. 

I don't think he was ever 'the best QB in the league' in any single year. So what? Does that disqualify his obvious talent? As someone stated above, arguments like this come down to the criteria of the individual debater. In my estimation, Elway has to be in the mix because of his amazing talent. In all his years of playing he was NEVER the turn over machine Favre was. And that's the thing - even when Favre was 'dominating' the league, he would still throw the stupidest, most ill-advised throws you could imagine. Not something I expect to see from one of the Top 5 greatest quarterbacks of all time.

[skcusenokcaP]

Um, no.

First of all, he's not even the greatest quarterback to ever play for the Packers. That would be Bart Starr.

Thats a joke right?    His season high for touchdowns was 16.  16!!!! was his best!!!!  Favres worst year he had 18 touchdowns.  Get real buddy.

Secondly, I am shocked that people in this thread seem to be completely discounting quarterbacks from previous eras. Corey's title clearly says "All-Time".

Johnny Unitas was the greatest quarterback to ever play the game. Period. The man called his own plays and was the greatest leader of men the NFL has ever seen. He was both precise and a gunslinger at the same time. And he made his mark long before the liberated passing rules that modern quarterbacks have enjoyed and padded their stats with since.

Another joke right?  The guy had 3 or 4 very good seasons.  Favre has had like 10 - 12 very good years.  Nobody is saying Unitas wasnt one of the best, but Brett Favre he aint.
 

On an All-Time list, Favre is in the Top Ten. Perhaps barely. But no freekin' way does he sniff the Top 5.

Not trying to put down guys from the past, but seriously man get a clue.

[skcusenokcaP]

Yeah, Manning sure choked against the Bears in the Super Bowl...

As for Elway - you guys have no idea what you're talking about. Go back and watch The Drive. It wasn't his fault his early Bronco teams couldn't stop anybody in the Super Bowls they played in. It's not easy to play quarterback, let alone well, when the defense knows you have to throw it.

The man was amazing.

Ahh, so Elway is great because of one drive ?  Or a few great comebacks?  I guess Frank Reich is #2 of all time then?  Look at these guys statistics from season to season.  Elway was nothing special till the end of his career.  The only guys who were consistently excellent from beginning of career to end are favre, Manning so far, Montana.

[skcusenokcaP]

I don't think he was ever 'the best QB in the league' in any single year. So what? Does that disqualify his obvious talent? As someone stated above, arguments like this come down to the criteria of the individual debater. In my estimation, Elway has to be in the mix because of his amazing talent. In all his years of playing he was NEVER the turn over machine Favre was. And that's the thing - even when Favre was 'dominating' the league, he would still throw the stupidest, most ill-advised throws you could imagine. Not something I expect to see from one of the Top 5 greatest quarterbacks of all time.

Elway's first Ten seasons........

158 touchdowns and 157 interceptions around 55% completion percentage

Favres first Ten seasons

287 touchdowns and 170 interceptions around 62% completion percantage.

Throw in Favres "amazing" factor and it's a landslide

[DonaldsDesignatedDriver]

"even when Favre was 'dominating' the league, he would still throw the stupidest, most ill-advised throws you could imagine. "

Here's another one of my pet peeves.  I think this is another Favre myth: He's always played that way (i.e. "gunslinger," "risk taker," etc.).  Favre would throw a stupid pass and the announcers say "oh he's always played that way" rather than admit that the Favre of the '00 way a much worse player than the MVP Favre.

He made lot's of bad decisions early in his career.  And Holmgren broke him down and made him a good QB.  Then Holmgren left and he reverted back to his old habits.  When Favre was in his prime, however, he was a very good decision maker.  Really.  I was at the preseason game at Camp Randall way back when, when it finally "clicked" for Favre and he actually decided to throw the ball out of bounds rather than into coverage.  It was the biggest applause all day.

You can say Elway wasn't a turnover machine, but the two players were comperable in that department.  Favre threw more INT's per attempt, but he threw less INT's per touch down.  On other statistical categories, Elway was insanely ho-hum.  He never threw for 30 TDs in a season, and only threw for 20 TDs in a season in 6 out of 16 seasons.

I do agree that GOAT is very subjective.  And the "must have dominated the league" criteria is just one of my requirements.  

[packercorey]

Thats a joke right?    His season high for touchdowns was 16.  16!!!! was his best!!!!  Favres worst year he had 18 touchdowns.  Get real buddy.

First of all they played 14 games instead of 16. They also happened to have some Hall OF Fame Running backs that liked to score on Lombardi "Packer Sweeps".
 
But here are the stats I am looking at:

They both have 16 seasons.

Starr:  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StarBa00.htm

Favre: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm

Favre is statistically better in almost every single category.

Except Championships and Post-Season Record (Where it counts)

Post-Season record: Favre - 12-10  Starr- 9-1

Championships: Favre - 1  Starr - 5

[packeraaron]

Thats a joke right?    His season high for touchdowns was 16.  16!!!! was his best!!!!  Favres worst year he had 18 touchdowns.  Get real buddy.

To quote Lombardi - Statistics are for losers. I'll take Championships, thank you very much.

And you couldn't be more wrong about Unitas, but ignorance is bliss...

[packercorey]

 And the "must have dominated the league" criteria is just one of my requirements.  

Bart Starr certainly did not "dominate the league" - he did have the highest passer rating in the NFL for 3 years,but he ranked in the middle statistically...but Lombardi never was a passer. I don't blame him. 3- should be 4 Hall of Famers on your O-Line and Jim Taylor. Y would you pass a lot? Just enough to keep em honest and keep Hornung happy..

[packeraaron]

Ahh, so Elway is great because of one drive ?  Or a few great comebacks?  I guess Frank Reich is #2 of all time then?  Look at these guys statistics from season to season.  Elway was nothing special till the end of his career.  The only guys who were consistently excellent from beginning of career to end are favre, Manning so far, Montana.

Does your brain just shut down if it has to process the fact that football existed before you were born?

[packeraaron]

"even when Favre was 'dominating' the league, he would still throw the stupidest, most ill-advised throws you could imagine. "

Here's another one of my pet peeves.  I think this is another Favre myth: He's always played that way (i.e. "gunslinger," "risk taker," etc.).  Favre would throw a stupid pass and the announcers say "oh he's always played that way" rather than admit that the Favre of the '00 way a much worse player than the MVP Favre.

I'm not saying he wasn't much better at the end of Holmgren's tenure. But he never lost the ability to mystify with some of his decision making.

[DonaldsDesignatedDriver]

First of all they played 14 games instead of 16. They also happened to have some Hall OF Fame Running backs that liked to score on Lombardi "Packer Sweeps".
 
But here are the stats I am looking at:

They both have 16 seasons.

Starr:  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StarBa00.htm

Favre: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm

Favre is statistically better in almost every single category.

Except Championships and Post-Season Record (Where it counts)

Post-Season record: Favre - 12-10  Starr- 9-1

Championships: Favre - 1  Starr - 5

Bart Starr to this day has the greatest post season QB rating in NFL history.  When the spotlight was hottest, Starr played out of this world.  On the other hand, when the spotlight was hottest, Favre wilted.  

[PPundit]

Bart Starr to this day has the greatest post season QB rating in NFL history.  When the spotlight was hottest, Starr played out of this world.  On the other hand, when the spotlight was hottest, Favre wilted.

QFT

Favre is not the best, or top 5. Star, Montana, Young, Aikman, and Brady, probably in that order.

How many Super Bowls did Aikman win and what were his numbers in them? I don't know from memory, but I know they were great.

When SF need a touchdown at the end of the game, Montana delivered, Favre did not.

Let me pose another question: do you think that but for the Mike Sherman Era, Favre could have been a top 5er and maybe even the GOAT?

I'm not sure, but it is an interesting question

[skcusenokcaP]

Bottom line is this guys..... We're all packer fans, some older and some younger.  No young packer fan is going to be convinced Starr was better and no long time fan who grew up with Starr as their guy is going to be convinced of Favre.  Thats alright.....Bottom line,  all these quarterbacks are very very good.  All of them, awesome.  Arguing over who was better is just stupid since we cant see how Favre would react on the Colts or Patriots offense.  We cant see Favre play with the supporting cast Starr had.  Maybe he would have as many championships.  Maybe not.  Who cares.  This isn't something we should fight about, not that we're even really fighting.

[astyak]

I don't' know if hes there or not, that is a hard list to pare down. There have been some great qbs. I think part of the measure has to be the streak. Look at what other teams go through with their QBs. That streak of always knowing that Favre would be there week in week out has to have some benefit.  Its not just longevity. Its being there week in week out not just being there year after year. I think the streak, the stats, the superbowl, the mvps put him in the elite and probably in the top five. Certainly in the modern era his is in the top five.

[packercorey]

  No young packer fan is going to be convinced Starr was better and no long time fan who grew up with Starr as their guy is going to be convinced of Favre. 

Dude...I know Im old at 32 but i never saw Starr play. Ever. My grandfather did. All I know is that  now that Favre is retired- i mean with the Jets it's going to be fun to have this argument

That said- Being a Packer fan I want to know even more about 1919 to now.