Comments on: The Biggest Need? http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/ Wed, 19 Jun 2013 04:36:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4 By: In Class l Packers Lounge http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10015 In Class l Packers Lounge Mon, 10 May 2010 21:30:48 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10015 [...] understands our need at center. Unlike you guys.AKPC_IDS += “10998,”; var a2a_config = a2a_config || {}; [...] [...] understands our need at center. Unlike you guys.AKPC_IDS += “10998,”; var a2a_config = a2a_config || {}; [...]

]]> By: FITZCORE1252 http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10014 FITZCORE1252 Sat, 08 May 2010 21:17:09 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10014 But he's just being fed info on the fly in a situation like that. They're pumping it into his headpiece. It just seems to me that if it was that well known and there was much truth to it, somebody like Bedard or Vanderdouche would have written something after the fact, I guess not though. I'm done :-) But he’s just being fed info on the fly in a situation like that. They’re pumping it into his headpiece. It just seems to me that if it was that well known and there was much truth to it, somebody like Bedard or Vanderdouche would have written something after the fact, I guess not though.

I’m done :-)

]]> By: Alex http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10013 Alex Sat, 08 May 2010 20:49:16 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10013 Dude, Rich Eisen is good enough for me. Dude, Rich Eisen is good enough for me.

]]> By: FITZCORE1252 http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10012 FITZCORE1252 Sat, 08 May 2010 20:37:22 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10012 What chart are you looking at? Because the one I see - http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php - puts the 15th pick @ 1050 our #23 @ 760 for a deficit of 290 "OUR" 3rd is valued @ 155 leaving a deficit of 135 our 4th is valued @ 54 leaving a deficit of 81... and so on. And don't forget, teams wont trade unless they "come out ahead", so in most cases in order to move up, you're gonna give up more than what the chart says is an even trade. The only way we could've moved up (using exclusively this years draft) without using multiple picks was to give up our 1st and 2nd for a combined value of 1100. Which is probably about what kind of value any team would need to see to trade down. +50 that is. GBP 4 LIFE What chart are you looking at?

Because the one I see -

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php -

puts the 15th pick @ 1050
our #23 @ 760

for a deficit of 290

“OUR” 3rd is valued @ 155

leaving a deficit of 135

our 4th is valued @ 54

leaving a deficit of 81… and so on. And don’t forget, teams wont trade unless they “come out ahead”, so in most cases in order to move up, you’re gonna give up more than what the chart says is an even trade.

The only way we could’ve moved up (using exclusively this years draft) without using multiple picks was to give up our 1st and 2nd for a combined value of 1100. Which is probably about what kind of value any team would need to see to trade down. +50 that is.

GBP 4 LIFE

]]> By: FITZCORE1252 http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10011 FITZCORE1252 Sat, 08 May 2010 20:18:21 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10011 I see a lot of people talking about it, nothing more. All it takes is one person to get some bad intel in a setting like that and all the sudden it spreads like wildfire. I didn't see anything written by a credible source post-draft that corroborates any of that. I see a lot of people talking about it, nothing more. All it takes is one person to get some bad intel in a setting like that and all the sudden it spreads like wildfire. I didn’t see anything written by a credible source post-draft that corroborates any of that.

]]> By: Alex http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10010 Alex Sat, 08 May 2010 03:36:38 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10010 In addition, the value on the chart to swap picks at that position is a 3rd rounder. There is no multiple in that. I'll take what Nagler says in the first comment, first sentence, along with what I heard on draft day. In addition, the value on the chart to swap picks at that position is a 3rd rounder. There is no multiple in that.

I’ll take what Nagler says in the first comment, first sentence, along with what I heard on draft day.

]]> By: Alex http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10009 Alex Sat, 08 May 2010 03:04:35 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10009 It's also worth re-reading the live blog 8:18 forward is prime time. Rich Eisen even announced it, so did Nagler from Radio City. The rest of it is worth reading too. http://packerslounge.com/green-bay-packers-news/packers-nfl-draft-2010/ It’s also worth re-reading the live blog 8:18 forward is prime time. Rich Eisen even announced it, so did Nagler from Radio City. The rest of it is worth reading too.

http://packerslounge.com/green.....raft-2010/

]]> By: Alex http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10008 Alex Sat, 08 May 2010 02:57:47 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10008 It was said several times at pick 15 during the draft. I was watching the stream on NFL.com with Carriveau. Titans. It was said several times at pick 15 during the draft. I was watching the stream on NFL.com with Carriveau. Titans.

]]> By: FITZCORE1252 http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10007 FITZCORE1252 Sat, 08 May 2010 00:25:03 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10007 OT - http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Cushing-suspended-for-violating-NFL-steroid-policy.html I know there were rumbles about this when he was @ USC. Remember how Clay weighed 78 lbs(slight exaggeration) his Senior year of HS, and 4 years later was a 245 lb STUD? And couldn't get on the field 'till his Senior year @ SC when he literally "BURST" onto the seen? I know the 2 of them were tight, and the way CM3 seemed to turn 'BEASTLY' in such a short amount of time raised eyebrows, but this is America, and until somebody says they have a positive test result for him... he did it in the weight-room, the right way(fingers crossed). GBP 4 LIFE OT -

http://www.nationalfootballpos.....olicy.html

I know there were rumbles about this when he was @ USC. Remember how Clay weighed 78 lbs(slight exaggeration) his Senior year of HS, and 4 years later was a 245 lb STUD? And couldn’t get on the field ’till his Senior year @ SC when he literally “BURST” onto the seen?

I know the 2 of them were tight, and the way CM3 seemed to turn ‘BEASTLY’ in such a short amount of time raised eyebrows, but this is America, and until somebody says they have a positive test result for him… he did it in the weight-room, the right way(fingers crossed).

GBP 4 LIFE

]]> By: FITZCORE1252 http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10006 FITZCORE1252 Sat, 08 May 2010 00:08:24 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10006 Alex, unless Teddy ballgame was able to orchestrate one-helluva deal, we would have lost multiple draft picks, that's just a fact (unless he were to throw in a signed player instead). I can't think of one instance where a team moved up 7 spots in the 1st without giving up their 1st along with a later pick (or two)... can you? And I must have missed something, I know there were probing conversations about moving up, which many teams do and usually that's as far as it goes (due-diligence), but I didn't read anywhere that Ted was actively pursuing it. Not being a smart ass, but, do you have a link? I'd like to read it. GBP 4 LIFE Alex, unless Teddy ballgame was able to orchestrate one-helluva deal, we would have lost multiple draft picks, that’s just a fact (unless he were to throw in a signed player instead).

I can’t think of one instance where a team moved up 7 spots in the 1st without giving up their 1st along with a later pick (or two)… can you?

And I must have missed something, I know there were probing conversations about moving up, which many teams do and usually that’s as far as it goes (due-diligence), but I didn’t read anywhere that Ted was actively pursuing it. Not being a smart ass, but, do you have a link? I’d like to read it.

GBP 4 LIFE

]]> By: Alex http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10005 Alex Fri, 07 May 2010 12:41:50 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10005 I'd also like to know in your expert opinion who Ted was trying to move into the 16 spot for? It's well known he was trying. I’d also like to know in your expert opinion who Ted was trying to move into the 16 spot for? It’s well known he was trying.

]]> By: Alex http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10004 Alex Fri, 07 May 2010 12:35:57 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10004 Believe what you must. Your whole argument really hinges on an assumption that we would would have lost multiple picks trading up. Believe what you must. Your whole argument really hinges on an assumption that we would would have lost multiple picks trading up.

]]> By: Jason http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10003 Jason Fri, 07 May 2010 06:41:15 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10003 I grow tired of this. I tried logic, albeit snarky, and that didn't work. I tried to open your eyes beyond just Colledge and Wells, and that didn't work. You want hypothetical scenarios? Fine! We drafted Bulaga and... 1. We keep Colledge. Oh no, a former starter at LG being our back up at LG, but he's a jerk. Fact of the matter is that it is Thompson's job to put the best team on the field, and trading away draft picks, for someone who only builds through the draft, just for an "excuse" to get rid of a player he doesn't like is selfish and unacceptable. And depth for the interior can easily be found later in the draft, which is why so few interior lineman go in the first round. Move Spitz over to center, Colledge at left guard 2. Colledge is gone, Wells doesn't get injured, it's possible. Three picks was a rip off for a player who doesn't even have to start. 3. Colledge gone, Wells injured, your favorite. McCarthy says Lang is a natural LG, so move Spitz and plug in Lang, or Bulaga, or even Newhouse. I didn't say 3rd round or later players can't start, I said 3rd round+ LTs can't start at LT(be better if you had read what I said though). If you think Newhouse can play LG, then I guess we didn't need Pouncey anyway. 4. Colledge gone, Clifton injured. Your whole argument hinges on an offensive lineman getting injured, and you don't even assume the most injury prone lineman, Clifton. Pouncey doesn't address that need, and I'm not confident in Lang (his coaches don't even think he's a LT) or the best LT available at pick 86, or maybe later. Bulaga at LG is a lot less scary than any other LT possibilities. There you go, scenarios. Hypothetical scenarios showing that center isn't the biggest need or the scariest position on the team. Also, it seems like you missed it the first time, so please look at my previous post, and scenario 1 in this post, to see the negative effects of trading up, which you failed to answer. Again, let's not forget about DE and S; if we traded up for Pouncey, this post would probably be about one of those positions, or LT, being our biggest need, and I wouldn't argue. Now, for those 9 OLBs. Here's a number, 7. Well, 7.3ish if you include Obiozor. That is the combined NFL experience, in years, of those 9 OLBs. 5 of those belong to Poppinga, who couldn't beat out a rookie seventh round draft pick for playing time, 1 for Matthews and 1 for Jones. After them, nothing but undrafted rookie free agents, that you're not worried about, because Ted Thompson says it's not "dire." The following will be my final comment on this post: It is a quote from a Green Bay Press Gazette article from April 16th titled "Green Bay Packers GM Ted Thompson confident in offensive line" by Rob Demovsky. Actually the title is enough, but I'll keep going, '“I think I feel better (about the line) than you guys do,” Thompson told reporters during his annual predraft news conference." It continues, '“I have a lot of confidence in our guys,” Thompson said." "Confidence," to me, sounds much better than "not dire." So, here is Ted's assessment, to be taken seriously, by you. You use his not "dire" quote for OLB so something has to give. If you're right about OLB, you're wrong about Pouncey, because a confident man wouldn't blow 3 or more picks on a center, or vice versa. Bulaga was a pick for the future (you said it yourself in your article), not this season, so don't try to turn his first round pick around. I think I covered everything, so that's it, nothing else to be said. I bid you farewell, and thank you for making my first comment section argument a victorious one. I grow tired of this.
I tried logic, albeit snarky, and that didn’t work.
I tried to open your eyes beyond just Colledge and Wells, and that didn’t work.
You want hypothetical scenarios? Fine!
We drafted Bulaga and…
1. We keep Colledge. Oh no, a former starter at LG being our back up at LG, but he’s a jerk. Fact of the matter is that it is Thompson’s job to put the best team on the field, and trading away draft picks, for someone who only builds through the draft, just for an “excuse” to get rid of a player he doesn’t like is selfish and unacceptable. And depth for the interior can easily be found later in the draft, which is why so few interior lineman go in the first round. Move Spitz over to center, Colledge at left guard
2. Colledge is gone, Wells doesn’t get injured, it’s possible. Three picks was a rip off for a player who doesn’t even have to start.
3. Colledge gone, Wells injured, your favorite. McCarthy says Lang is a natural LG, so move Spitz and plug in Lang, or Bulaga, or even Newhouse. I didn’t say 3rd round or later players can’t start, I said 3rd round+ LTs can’t start at LT(be better if you had read what I said though). If you think Newhouse can play LG, then I guess we didn’t need Pouncey anyway.
4. Colledge gone, Clifton injured. Your whole argument hinges on an offensive lineman getting injured, and you don’t even assume the most injury prone lineman, Clifton. Pouncey doesn’t address that need, and I’m not confident in Lang (his coaches don’t even think he’s a LT) or the best LT available at pick 86, or maybe later. Bulaga at LG is a lot less scary than any other LT possibilities.

There you go, scenarios. Hypothetical scenarios showing that center isn’t the biggest need or the scariest position on the team. Also, it seems like you missed it the first time, so please look at my previous post, and scenario 1 in this post, to see the negative effects of trading up, which you failed to answer.
Again, let’s not forget about DE and S; if we traded up for Pouncey, this post would probably be about one of those positions, or LT, being our biggest need, and I wouldn’t argue.

Now, for those 9 OLBs. Here’s a number, 7. Well, 7.3ish if you include Obiozor. That is the combined NFL experience, in years, of those 9 OLBs. 5 of those belong to Poppinga, who couldn’t beat out a rookie seventh round draft pick for playing time, 1 for Matthews and 1 for Jones. After them, nothing but undrafted rookie free agents, that you’re not worried about, because Ted Thompson says it’s not “dire.”

The following will be my final comment on this post:
It is a quote from a Green Bay Press Gazette article from April 16th titled “Green Bay Packers GM Ted Thompson confident in offensive line” by Rob Demovsky. Actually the title is enough, but I’ll keep going, ‘“I think I feel better (about the line) than you guys do,” Thompson told reporters during his annual predraft news conference.” It continues, ‘“I have a lot of confidence in our guys,” Thompson said.”
“Confidence,” to me, sounds much better than “not dire.”
So, here is Ted’s assessment, to be taken seriously, by you. You use his not “dire” quote for OLB so something has to give. If you’re right about OLB, you’re wrong about Pouncey, because a confident man wouldn’t blow 3 or more picks on a center, or vice versa. Bulaga was a pick for the future (you said it yourself in your article), not this season, so don’t try to turn his first round pick around.
I think I covered everything, so that’s it, nothing else to be said.
I bid you farewell, and thank you for making my first comment section argument a victorious one.

]]> By: Alex http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10002 Alex Thu, 06 May 2010 12:37:03 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10002 Thirteen linebackers. Nine of them outside, for two positions. Eleven corners. Who says a third rounder cannot play this year. Brad Jones would totally disagree. You take Pouncey because you are pretty sure the Colledge is not going to be around, moving Spitz and leaving you with only DS to sub at center. Since by your theory Newhouse won't be able to ever start this year being such a low pick, that leaves us in a world of hurt with ONE injury. Ted has said, before signing any UFA's the OLB was fine. When you are Ted I'll take your assessment more seriously. Thirteen linebackers. Nine of them outside, for two positions. Eleven corners.

Who says a third rounder cannot play this year. Brad Jones would totally disagree. You take Pouncey because you are pretty sure the Colledge is not going to be around, moving Spitz and leaving you with only DS to sub at center. Since by your theory Newhouse won’t be able to ever start this year being such a low pick, that leaves us in a world of hurt with ONE injury.

Ted has said, before signing any UFA’s the OLB was fine. When you are Ted I’ll take your assessment more seriously.

]]> By: Jason http://cheeseheadtv.com/eat_more_cheese/the-biggest-need/#comment-10001 Jason Thu, 06 May 2010 03:10:41 +0000 http://packerslounge.com/?p=10781#comment-10001 I have a feeling you didn't account for the draft picks that would've been given up to trade up, namely their first, second, and at least fourth or fifth picks. The math does not work out for trading three picks for a dual role player, but also would've prevented us from getting "insurance" at multiple other positions. A third round or later LT is not ready to play this year, and would leave nobody behind Clifton again. Bigby is often injured and Jolly might be suspended, and we would've been left with nothing but low draft picks for "insurance" at other positions. Therefore, Pouncey's net insurance value has a negative effect on the team, because it takes insurance away from other positions, whereas Bulaga's net insurance value is higher because we didn't have to mortgage depth on defense, since he fell to us. Thompson obviously went for depth this year and you don't get that by trading picks away. I still don't see any reason from you for taking Pouncey other than that our centers might get injured. If you read the article, Alex, you will see that that is the only reason you give. First two paragraphs are introductions, third is hypothesis, everything else discusses injury possibilities. He's "phenomenal," you later say, just like almost every other top 20 pick. As far as OLB, one of the reasons you give for trading up in the first round is "insurance value," but you're ok with our insurance at another position being nothing but undrafted rookies? Expecting Obi or any of those other guys to step up this year is no crazier than expecting Evan Dietrich-Smith to step up this year. Great excuse, though. I totally believe that the only reason you want to stop arguing is over some off topic issue. I have a feeling you didn’t account for the draft picks that would’ve been given up to trade up, namely their first, second, and at least fourth or fifth picks. The math does not work out for trading three picks for a dual role player, but also would’ve prevented us from getting “insurance” at multiple other positions. A third round or later LT is not ready to play this year, and would leave nobody behind Clifton again. Bigby is often injured and Jolly might be suspended, and we would’ve been left with nothing but low draft picks for “insurance” at other positions. Therefore, Pouncey’s net insurance value has a negative effect on the team, because it takes insurance away from other positions, whereas Bulaga’s net insurance value is higher because we didn’t have to mortgage depth on defense, since he fell to us. Thompson obviously went for depth this year and you don’t get that by trading picks away.

I still don’t see any reason from you for taking Pouncey other than that our centers might get injured. If you read the article, Alex, you will see that that is the only reason you give. First two paragraphs are introductions, third is hypothesis, everything else discusses injury possibilities. He’s “phenomenal,” you later say, just like almost every other top 20 pick.

As far as OLB, one of the reasons you give for trading up in the first round is “insurance value,” but you’re ok with our insurance at another position being nothing but undrafted rookies? Expecting Obi or any of those other guys to step up this year is no crazier than expecting Evan Dietrich-Smith to step up this year.
Great excuse, though. I totally believe that the only reason you want to stop arguing is over some off topic issue.

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