Maybe this will motivate the team to convert every 3rd down.

That Ted Thompson is a clever one.

Did he really want Moss? I mean really want him or was it just a call made to appease Favre/Cook for another year?

A couple of years ago we didn't have to worry about punting, those Favre interceptions were just him throwing punts, doing his part in the ongoing battle for field position.

Aaron, Some of your more general points are in this piece are arguably good, but Oil Derrick Frost is history, get over it.
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Fact is, I actually kind of like Kampinos for the following reasons: a strong enough leg, good directional punting, doesn't save his 55 yard kicks for when he's punting from the opponent's 45 yard line (ala Jon Ruyun) and most importantly, Kampinos seems to be pretty cool under pressure and that to me is what punting's all about.

what the hell does curmudgeon mean?

Leave it to McGinn to use the terminology, "demanded". I can see TT pounding on his desk & 'demanding' that Smith take GB's offer or else. ... That's an absolutely ridiculous assumption by McGinn. Smith even said the offer in GB was better.
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“The situation in Green Bay was better from a financial standpoint, but it made more sense to come here,” Smith said Friday in Washington.
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All GB wanted was a longer term committment from Smith. (2-3 years) Why rent a punter for one year & then start the search all over again next year.
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Aaron
You're being duped by the local-yokels in the media, again.

Aaron, was this information confirmed? Did anybody from either Moss's side or Smith's side confirm his deamenor? I'm not about to stick up for a stupid GM move or disposition in general, but isn't this a bit premature without definitive confirmation? I find it interesting that Bob McGinn can project the tone of a conversation that he wasn't even part of.

This, along with the Harrell pick, is the clear statement that TT is a mediocre/good GM. Not great. Great GMs need to be stubborn and stick with their guys, but TT overdoes it.
BUT saying he treats ST as an annoyance when he has just drafted a bunch of ST standouts is a bit misplaced IMO...

It's fun to sit back on the 'inter-tubes' sidelines and watch people cherry pick their examples in order to make their case. i.e. reference the Harrell pick but ignore the other outstanding picks in order to support the connclusion you start with (which is always considered bad in journalizm) that TT either is good or sucks. This is why nobody here has the temperment to actually ever be a GM, funny stuff....

I put the Ryan/Frost debacle on Stock, squarely. Just cant see Ted making a rash move at the last minute without someone vouching for Frost in a most emphatic way. And maybe releasing T White was retribution for that bad advice, why waste a roster spot on a great coverage guy when the punt is going 30 yards?

Bombad - that was my understanding throughout the whole punter mess: position coach is adamant that a better option was available and pleads his case to the coach and then GM. GM (as GM's should do) listen to their coaches upon hearing a compelling case/rationale. TT has the ultimate veto and can get part of the blame but this is all Stock.

thanks for the explanation aaron if you dont mind i think i might use that as my word of the week at work.

""CSS – Moss did an interview before the Super Bowl two years ago where he talked about it and how he was completely put off by Thompson and his talking down to Moss. ""
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Is this the same Randy Moss that stalks his QB on the sidelines when he feels neglected ??? Is this the same Randy Moss who 'moons' an entire stadium of fans ?? Is this the same Randy Moss who was fined $25,000 for squirting an NFL referee with a water bottle ?? Is this the same Randy Moss who bagged it in in Oakland ??
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You trust his interpretation of a conversation. I sure don't.

As you know Aaron, I'm no big Mc Ginn fan. I trust his sorcing as much as I'd trust Hannibal Lecter near my right arm. That said, the sorcing in this article is specific and can easily be confirmed. So, I have to give it credence.

Right now the Packers have two punters that are very ordinary. Neither has stepped up. Not even any OTA PR has been released by the Packers. That's worrisome. I'm begining to see the signing of another team's castoff before the first game again. Maybe one of them will show something. Let's hope.

Another part of the Mc Ginn article that concerns me is Mason Crosby. He points out that Crosby failed in two game winning field goal attempts last year. A point I was ridiculed for making at the time. His FG average in the lower 25% of the NFL and 6 KO's out of bounds, not good. And don't use the kicking out doors excuse. Seems to me Robby Gould of the Bears has a very good accuracy record.

This, combined with the O line, are the reasons I am a critic of TT. 31 wins and 33 losses is less than impressive. He and MM better deliver this year. TT may survive, MM won't.

Aaron, you didn't mention Harrell. Read the thread and you will see another comment did. Again, the silliness of it all amuses me. Look across the Packer Nation periodicles/articles and they are opinion pieces, often poorly sourced or simply implying their point of view. McGinn, Bedard, et al rarely source or even attempt to reference one. They view a situation, comment on it and move on to the next piece. Opinion pieces are like, well, you know....

"Woody – how many of those things happened in New England? Riiiiiggghhht… "
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Moot point.

Randy Moss has been muffled in NE to preserve his job in the NFL. ....But Randy Moss is still Randy Moss.... Please don't start talking the 'turning over a new leaf argument'. It would be as ridiculous as McGinn using the word 'demanded'.

On another note:

I was only going to stop by for a minute or two (last night) to just check out the 'live blog'. I got so wrapped up in the sparring, humour & pace that I couldn't leave. Very entertaining. Love the polls.

Pretty happy with Ted's guys at WR. More than happy, ecstatic. Moss on the team last year would have been disasterous, dont you all think?
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Let's not overrate this Hunter Smith guy. He ranked 13th or something. McGinn pointed out the history of Packers punter troubles, but not the fact that the Packers record over that span is the best in the league as well.

The back & forth is all good stuff (and some pretty good points by all), but the fact remains that punting is a concern. The early reads from camp make it even more so. I like Kapinos too but I don't know if I like him because of what he brings or if I like him because he replaced Frost.

"King of Almost getting people"

It's refreshing to hear someone say that. I got a lot of flack bringing up this thought earlier in the off-season.

"It’s fun to sit back on the ‘inter-tubes’ sidelines and watch people cherry pick their examples in order to make their case. i.e. reference the Harrell pick but ignore the other outstanding picks in order to support the connclusion you start with (which is always considered bad in journalizm) that TT either is good or sucks. This is why nobody here has the temperment to actually ever be a GM, funny stuff…."
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Right, but no one is saying they have what it takes to be a GM. We're not filling out a job application here-- merely judging the results from a distance. Fans obviously don't have the knowledge or information to be the ultimate decidor of a GM's performance. But that doesn't mean a fan can't spot trends in a GM's philosophy.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out Thompson's tenure was/is nothing special. Sure there is a certain uniqueness to his methods, but it always seems like the roster is in a constant state of rebuilding-- more so than what is healthy for success.

I would agree though, the Harrell example does not have much to do with the topic at hand. Maybe relying on Harrell last year for depth on the D line would be a more adequate critique for a related topic.

Crosby is 50%+ on 50+ yarders, which is all you can hope for. Boomers like Janikowski (although he is the strongest kicker by far, made only 80% himself last year) and Rackers don't have better percentages in that range. Gould never kicks from 50+. Adam Vinatieri made 80% last year, 82% for his career. Yes, Crosby needs to make all his 30-39 yard kicks and ideally all potential game-winners (well, ideally all his kicks always) but it's not a position of weakness for the Packers.

WE TALKIN' 'BOUT PRACTICE, as Iverson would say.

Aaron, Your points on TT re: Frost are well taken. TT has his faults; let's hope he has the capacity to learn from his mistakes as well as his successes. Certainly there are at least 31 other GMs who have material flaws as well. Also, I must point out that TT is a relative newcomer to the GM position and so presumably still has a lot to learn about the intricacies of being that guy.
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On another subject I'd like to comment about your assertion that a conversation with Ted angered Randy Moss during his exit from the Raiders. While that may well have been the case, I don't believe I saw that reported in the media; of course my memory could be failing me. However I do remember, and it was widely reported in the media, that Moss later disparaged his conversation with MM during which Moss claimed MM told him that DD would continue as the #1 WR, even if Moss were to join GB, and that team chemistry needed to assume primacy over individual concerns in GB, etc.

There are plenty of positions that need scrutinizing. So many young punters from the college ranks would be a place to look.If a veteran can do the job,get someone who's hungry and let them have a chance.BTW, never forget the Randy Moss charade after scoring a TD at Lambeau. I would never want the man on the frozen tundra.

Recap of what Moss said about the Packers:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/03/pack...

I always had the impression that the trade for Moss failed because TT wasn't willing to give up a 3rd rounder and Belichick outsmarted him on draft day. If I remember correctly I believe Moss was willing to cut his salary to play for the Packers (and Brett Favre) but TT couldn't work out the compensation to the Raiders. Even if the Packers were not his first choice it doesn't appear Moss was willing to nix a trade to Green Bay.

All GMs have their flaws, but the best ones have fewer than TT. The guys at the top (in Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and NE) do not make as many mistakes as the guys in the middle of the pack Then there is Matt Millen, who was in a class by himself. Did he get anything right ever?

You mention Moss being completely repulsed by Thompson's condescending attitude after a phone call..

But wasn't it stated by Moss that it was his conversations with Coach Mike McCarthy that turned his stomach? I could have sworn that Moss specifically said he talked with McCarthy, who basically told him they won't put up with a bad attitude, they have too many young, impressionable players for a distraction type player in the locker room, and the kiss of death: Just so you know, mr. Moss, You won't be the No. 1 receiver, Donald Driver is the number 1..

At least, that's My recollection of Moss' statement- McCarthy completely turned him off, NOT Thompson.

Anyone, confirmation?

...Just wanted to add: While however it was broached with Moss obviously turned him off to coming to Green Bay, I can't fault McCarthy for bringing up those issues. Obviously, Moss didn't like it, but they were legitamate concerns and should have been addressed- although perhaps more carefully.

Factman - check out the link I posted above. It doesn't say who Moss spoke with in the organization but it does appear Moss was turned off by some of things you mention.

Reminding a player that he is 1 of 53 seems like a prudent endeavor by any NFL team. I'm sure all players are initiated in one way or another to the 'team concept' way of obtaining success.
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The problems occur when teams approach the various prima-divas that exist in the NFL. These prima-divas have (for the most part) already placed themselves above the team. They feel disparaged when asked to place their needs in conjunction with the team.
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GB wisely avoided what could have been the 'Moss Debacle' & still have a top WR Corp. It's not as easy, however, when that prima-diva is still on your roster.

Hey,

this post is really crap. Charles Woodson was looked at in the same way as Moss and coming from the same team. Thompson saw him on film...put up big bucks with no demands....and the rest, they say, is history.

My God....a fricken' punter!....a WR ? (we have the best WRs in the league) and now we are gonna rap Ted on the Knuckles for Not supporting Special Teams????The guy was the special teams captain for Houston for 10 fricken' Years. My goodness, you are not going to quote Mcginn are you? The guy is the biggest schmo out there.

Good training camp show Aaron, this post is really a bait post, you are better than that!

Buckslayer - thanks I stand by every word and you couldn't be more wrong. Cheers.