The Inevitable Problem With the Hidden Audible

Greg Easterbrook picks up on something in his latest Tuesday Morning Quarterback column that I've been wondering about all season, and that I know a few other commentators have pointed out as well. Citing Jenning's first touchdown, he writes:

As the Packers approached the line, Favre looked left to wide receiver Greg Jennings, saw Jennings had single press coverage, and nodded to him. The nod was a "hidden audible" -- Favre and Jennings were changing the play to a quick slant, but nobody else knew that. At the snap, the Green Bay offensive line fired out for the power rush they thought was happening; Favre threw a quick slant; Jennings strolled to the end zone. Sweet! Except Packers' guard Daryn Colledge was 5 yards downfield, run-blocking. Green Bay should have been flagged for ineligible man downfield.

I've been waiting for that flag all season. Here's hoping it keeps going unnoticed.

 

PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.

__________________________

0 points
 

Comments (10)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
Homme's picture

January 15, 2008 at 08:23 pm

My wife and I had the same conversation right after the play. I have never seen that called and Favre has done that audible for years. If it is a calledrun play, there is no way one of the guards is not going to be offsides.

0 points
0
0
astyak's picture

January 16, 2008 at 01:39 am

Glad to see someone else was paying attention too. Hope the zebras play blind for another couple weeks. Superbowl XXXI Rerun here we come!

0 points
0
0
PRC's picture

January 16, 2008 at 05:47 pm

Calling it that way wouldn't make sense to me unless the OL was downfield blocking a LB or something....

Its not like they sprinted off the line past the DL and were looking for other guys, They were all engaged with DL...What if they are pass blocking and blow their guy off the ball...do they get called then?

I saw a replay and I don't see how anyone could have been 5 yards down field either...it was a very quick throw.

0 points
0
0
PackerAaron's picture

January 16, 2008 at 06:01 pm

That's just the thing - that's exactly what happens on the first Jennings touchdown. The replay from behind the line of scrimmage clearly shows Colledge pushing a LB almost clear into the endzone as Jennings is diving across the goal line. I don't think it would ever get called, but it certainly could.

0 points
0
0
PRC's picture

January 16, 2008 at 06:23 pm

Ok here's a breakdown of the Play:
Line of Scrimmage is the 15 yard line.

On the snap of the ball Colledge and Wells double teamed the left DT before Colledge disengaged from that block the ball was already in the air, by the time Jennings caught the ball Colledge was hitting a LB at the second level 4 yards down field.

He and Wells were both past the LOS when the throw was made but both were engaged with the DT who they blew off the ball.

On the underhanded pass to Lee which I have seen pointed to as well no OL were across the LOS.

I think basically they probably aren't calling ineligible downfield on the other pass because when the pass was made the OL were engaged in active blocks with DL that started at the snap, not blocks as a result of running downfield or in the act of running down field when the throw was made.

They probably also treat it kind of like holding. It had 0 bearing on the outcome of the play so they just don't call it. Whereas if Jennings had been thrown too and was behind Colledge on the play and was getting blocks from him that would be a different story.

Thats my take.

0 points
0
0
PRC's picture

January 16, 2008 at 06:46 pm

Ok after some more searching I found a thread with some pretty good discussion about this on the Packer Rats forum:
http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?p=229226&sid=39c5fca226c...
They even have a nice picture of Favre in the process of throwing the ball while Colledge and Wells are blocking the DT
Not sure if this lets me embed it but if not copy and paste the link or go to packer rats to see.
[img]http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5678/jenningstdplayem3.jpg[/img]

By rule Colledge probably should have been flagged, you can push your guy off the ball but not beyond the neutral zone. However once the ball is out of the QBs hand you can go down field before its caught BUT if Colledge hit any player past the LOS and neutral zone while the ball is in the air technically it should have been called as pass interference or illegal contact.

The Chicago Trib has a column with Jerry Markbreit and here is his explanation of the rule as it applies to the NFL game:
The pro rule restricts linemen from advancing beyond the line of scrimmage until the ball leaves the passer's hand, whether or not the pass crosses the line of scrimmage.

0 points
0
0
PRC's picture

January 16, 2008 at 07:34 pm

In summary the ball is usually in the air so fast on these throws that the OL is almost never going to have pushed the DL beyond the neutral zone before the ball is out of Bretts hand.

Based on the rule it doesn't matter where they go after the ball is thrown its where they are WHEN the ball is thrown.

Like I said technically they could have called Colledge but it would have been VERY ticky tacky. He didn't release the DL and advance to the LB until after the ball was in the air and he didn't really engage the DL until after the ball was already in jennings hands...It was very bang, bang, bang....after the ball hits jennings hands he drives the LB back but thats completely legal.

0 points
0
0
PackerAaron's picture

January 16, 2008 at 08:03 pm

Commendable work PRC! Thanks very much.

0 points
0
0
PRC's picture

January 16, 2008 at 09:06 pm

Ok one more for you packeraaron...its probably going to be a little diffcult to read here so I'll put it in your forums as well...

Here is the official rule from the NFL rule book from 2006...I don't recall any changes for 2007 so I think this is completely accurate and based on the way I read the rule I think its fair to say that Colledge was legal in his execution UNLESS he contacted the LB before the pass was touched by Jennings. Then the call should have been PI but based on the rule he was NOT illegally down field when the pass was thrown based on the rule:

Section 2 Pass Interference/Ineligible Player Downfield
Article 1 Pass interference can only occur when there is a forward pass thrown from
behind the line of scrimmage. This applies regardless of whether the pass crosses the
line.
(a) The restriction for the offensive team begins with the snap.
(b) The restriction for the defensive team begins when the ball leaves the passer’s
hands.
Article 2 It is a foul when an ineligible offensive player (including a T-formation quarterback),
prior to a legal forward pass:
(a) advances beyond his line, after losing contact with an opponent at the line of
scrimmage;
(b) loses contact with an opponent downfield after the initial charge and then continues
to advance or move laterally; or
(c) moves downfield without contacting an opponent at the line of scrimmage.
The above restrictions end when the ball leaves the passer’s hand.
Note: The guideline for officials to use for an ineligible player(s) to be illegally downfield: the
offending player must be more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage prior to the
pass.
Penalty: Ineligible offensive player downfield: loss of 5 yards from previous spot.
Article 3 It is not a foul for an ineligible receiver downfield when ineligible receivers:
(a) block an opponent at the line of scrimmage drives him downfield, loses the block
and remains stationary;
(b) are forced behind their line;
(c) move laterally behind their line (before or after contact of their initial charge) provided
they do not advance beyond their line until the ball leaves the passer’s hands; or
(d) have legally crossed their line in blocking an opponent (eligible offensive player A1
may complete a pass between them and the offensive line).
Article 4 After the ball leaves the passer’s hand, ineligible forward pass receivers can
advance:
(a) from behind their line;
(b) from their own line; or
(c) from their initial charge position, provided they do not block or contact a defensive
player(s) until the ball is touched by a player of either team. Such prior blocking
and/or contact is forward pass interference.

0 points
0
0
cheese5's picture

January 17, 2008 at 09:05 pm

0 points
0
0