The Green Bay Packers and Brian Gutekunst Are Both at a Crossroads Right Now
By GilMartin
It’s a very tough job being an NFL general manager. Sure, you make a lot of money if you do it well, but there is constant criticism and second guessing from both fans and the media and let’s face it, sometimes you need a little luck to make your best laid plans work out.
Green Bay Packers GM Brian Gutekunst is now at a crossroads in his career with the team. Since taking over for Ted Thompson in 2018, Gute has fired Mike McCarthy and hired Matt LaFleur as head coach. He retooled the team in free agency by signing Preston and Za’Darius Smith, Adrian Amos and Billy Turner back in 2019.
In the draft, he’s had his share of hits like Jaire Alexander and Rashan Gary and his share of misses such as Jace Sternberger and Amari Rodgers.
Gutekunst has also had to manage the ongoing Aaron Rodgers saga which has been an issue for the team pretty much since Gute became GM. Gutekunst drafted Jordan Love in 2020 which only made the team’s relationship with their star quarterback more complicated.
The Packers have been trending downward in recent seasons. They went to back-to-back NFC Championship Games in 2019 and 2020 and were the NFC’s top seed in 2020 and 2021. But the team was upset in their first playoff game in 2021 and then fell to 8-9 in 2022 and missed the playoffs altogether.
Now, Gutekunst (and Rodgers) must make a decision that will likely determine his future with the Packers. He can stick with Rodgers for one more season (and maybe two) and try to reverse the team’s downward trend of the last two years. The logic would be that Rodgers gives the Packers the best chance to win now in a wide-open NFC that lacks a dominant team on paper. His thumb is healed and he is ready to return to an elite level of play.
Gutekust would have to restructure Rodgers’ contract, something the quarterback said he was willing to do and then use that additional cap space to surround AR-12 with players that could help the team win now.
This would also require a certain recommitment from Rodgers. He would have to agree to attend all OTAs, not just the minimum number specified in his contract to receiver his workout bonus and put in more time with his receivers especially the younger ones like Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs.
That may also mean Gutekunst would have to trade Love who has sat on the bench behind Rodgers for three seasons and probably wouldn’t want to hinder his career by doing it for a fourth straight year.
If Gutekunst chooses this route and the Packers win a title or even go on another long playoff run, his job is secure. But if the team goes through another mediocre season, Gutekunst may not be the GM who goes through the inevitable rebuild once Rodgers retires and all the dead cap money that the team has been accumulating in trying to get Rodgers another Super Bowl title comes due.
If the Packers GM decides to trade Rodgers and the quarterback leads another team to the Super Bowl in 2023 or 2024 while Love struggles in Green Bay, again, Gutekunst’s job may be in jeopardy especially if the Packers don’t get a substantial return in any trade for Rodgers. Then Gutekunst will look like the man who misjudged Rodgers’ talent and temperament and rushed him out of town prematurely.
But if Love thrives and becomes the Packers third straight strong starting quarterback, Gutekunst could be set for a long run in Green Bay. The Packers would continue to be contenders as long as Love stays healthy and plays well and the Packers could build around their new franchise QB for the foreseeable future. Gutekunst will look smart for having drafted Love and for having sent Rodgers away and getting some assets for him while he still could.
Both the Packers franchise and its general manager sit at a crossroads right now. If Gutekunst’s ultimate decision on Rodgers works out for the team, Gutekunst will likely be the GM long term. If it blows up in his face, the Packers will have to rebuild and Gutekunst will likely not be the man at the helm when they do.
No pressure, Gute…Well, I guess it just comes with the job.
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Comments (142)
Packers2020
March 09, 2023 at 12:05 pm
Let's make sure we all know that Mark Murphy hired LeFluer, not Gute. Murphy fired McCarthy, not Gute.
The strings are being pulled by Murphy at least on the coaching side anyway. But I also think on the AR side as well.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Who hired Gutekunst? Who hired Murphy? Who hired them? etc. etc. etc.
I get the feeling that think the President shouldn't be involved in something that changes the face of the organization and involves many millions of dollars. Is that correct?
And that if there is a difference of opinion among LaFleur, Gutekunst, and Ball, that Murphy should just stay in his office and be quiet. Should he listen to them, even? Or should they just "work it out"? while he does important stuff with stadium improvements?
I like the division of power. I like the CEO as the mediator/arbitrator amongst the other parties. I like that he's a former NFL football player.
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 12:42 pm
The Harlen system was infinitely preferable to the Murphy system. The Board and outgoing President oversaw the hiring of his successor who was not involved in day to day football decisions unless there was a need to hire or solve top
Level performance problems. He then retreated and thus was not part of any such problems and apart from them.
That is what a President should be. That is why Chief Executives exist, or in football GMs with final football say and accountability but who have mechanisms to protect the organization above them. That President also nominated the board and thus ensures some separation between the ultimate oversight and the final football decision maker.
Murphy usurped that set of checks, balances and controls, becoming effectively omnipotent. That is not healthy in any organization ever except very very briefly in crises. Heck, this country has a constitution premised in exactly that principle that no person should be the sole repository of all power and separation of powers must be protected. Murphy is the king the founding fathers rejected. Please stop apologizing for that. It’s indefensible.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 01:36 pm
You must be a farmer, because you sure like silos.
dobber
March 09, 2023 at 03:12 pm
I can't tell you how many hours I spent filling and pitching out silos....
OrganLeroy
March 09, 2023 at 02:07 pm
You sir, are a moron!
croatpackfan
March 09, 2023 at 03:48 pm
I like that comment. It shows how little you know about Packers and their power structure. Still you are so brave to show everybody how low human being you are.
Thank you on that!
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 12:15 pm
Gil, from our perspective, there is a crossroad. From Gutekunst's perspective , he's simply continuing on his path. This QB switch was envisioned years ago, it was prepared for, and now at the next mile marker, we're going to pull over at the rest stop and change drivers.
I will say this: If the Packers , with LaFleur and Love, play well and win the division, it'll be a massive vindication for all parties involved and everybody will be happy, even the people who think the front office is full of clueless fools.
If Love struggles, you can dismiss a little as growing pains, but he shouldn't struggle in game after game. He's been prepared better than that. IF the Packers don't win....if we're 3rd in the division again....then I think LaFleur and Gutekunst should both be asked to explain that.
From my perspective, we're gassing up the car, getting some snacks and drinks, going to the can, stretching out....and then we're back on the road with a new driver. We're not at a crossroads, and we're not changing directions. A crossroad would be if we were changing HC or GM.
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 12:59 pm
I disagree. We are at a very significant juncture. An era defining change is coming, one that could have more impact than firing any official. We are on the cusp of moving from a generational talent at QB into the realm of unknown potential. That may yet lead to more junctions that sweep away the true GM, Gute, Ball and Murphy.
Like him or loathe him, Rodgers has not only been our best player for almost two decades, he is also a significant personality. He’s shaped this team heavily. Possibly fundamentally if some views are true, from coaches, to rosters to play design and execution. One can debate if he’s done so positively, negatively or neutrally over all, but nothing if the last decade looks close to the same without him.
Arguably he’s the real reason we have returned to competitiveness not any coach. Arguably he’s also now the reason that’s in the past. What’s not arguable is that he’s the center of everything, real and imagined. If his trade goes through, we will see if LaFleur is a positive or the hiring that condemned him to one ring with us. Hell, we will see if LaFleur is even a real head Coach. If he’s not, Murphy will be seen as the the naked emperor whose hubris wasted Rodgers and damaged the health of the organization to do so.
In pure football terms, we stand to move from hoping to stave off decline and cap penury to hoping to find gold in a new QB and soon to build around him. From holding the tide back to chasing the next big wave.
Hell yes, we are at a crossroads, however Love turns out.
LambeauPlain
March 09, 2023 at 01:19 pm
Definitely at a crossroads. Murphy gets his gold watch after the 2024 season and could be nudged out after this year if things go badly. A new Packers President is the very definition of a crossroads. And a lot can quickly change.
Will Barry Ball improve with arguably their best coach, Jerry Gray, wanting to leave the Packers, even after MLF asked him to return? Will MLF, as Acting Offensive Coordinator, improve his game with a new QB? Will Acting GM Murphy continue his "short term fix" installed in late 2017...now in its 5th year of management by committee with him making micromanaging Gutey, MLF and Ball?
Crossroads with potholes.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 02:51 pm
We're changing QBs. Teams change QBs all the time. Whatever he was for two decades, the 2023 version is being replaced.
If changing QBs, which you've been planning to do for years, is a crossroads, then what is changing a HC or a GM?
croatpackfan
March 09, 2023 at 04:35 pm
Coldworld, we can see that many teams changing their GMs (and which are in full responsibility of football operations) with no much media attantion to that. HC get some more media and fan attention, but QB changes goes mostly w/o much problems. Only 2 QBs in recent years brought high media involvement when they decide (or franchize) to change team. Brady did it.. but he won 7 SB and played in 10 SB all together. Brady make his decision more or less private (low media exposure) and pretty quick, so there was not much to write or talk about. Aaron Rodgers did this change very public and it lasted 5 seasons/years. Because Favre did same thing 15-18 years ago with his way of "should I stay or should I go" spectacle. That is why this change looks so "important". "History is repeating with Packers" everybody screams. After deal will happen I bet the narative through media will go in the direction will ACR go to Vikings after one year with Jets. Because it is what all kind of media would love to be. I do not believe in that outcome.
Maybe this season is year to early to let ACR go, but if you ask me what I believe, I believe it is 3 years to late. But, I understand their position before draft 2021. Jordan Love was not ready and they did not have QB who was good enough to play instead of ACR.
After I went through available sources to hear and see who is and what is projections for Jordan Love, I'm certain that he will be another high praised QB for Packers now when I hear and see all critics, opinions and praises. That Philly game confirmed what those with pro Jordan attitude was telling.
So, how Favre/ACR change was franchize altering event. Hindsight says there was no change in the overall result. 1 SB and few NFCCG. And almost locked place in play offs every year. Yeah there was one year missing play offs (in the year of change), better accuracy in throws, especially deep throws and less interceptions. What was that what was franchize altering in that change. Similar number of broken hopes and hearts. Nothing basically changed.
Explain me, please, what I'm missing. What kind of crossroad is that for Packers?
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 05:25 pm
Croat, my views on the need to move on from Rodgers have been stated often and for a long time along with my reasoning. However, the fact of change is no less significant if it is desired than unwanted. All the talk of Rodgers’ influence over things just further emphasizes the potential scale of change in the landscape.
That to me is a crossroads. A crossroads is where a choice is given effect, not necessarily the place where the decision is made or the reason for choosing the direction become clear. When Rodgers goes, things change. That’s the crossroads moment we we reach only when all parties sign off on his trade. Before that it’s just potential not yet realized.
13TimeChamps
March 09, 2023 at 01:05 pm
"This QB switch was envisioned years ago, it was prepared for, and now at the next mile marker, we're going to pull over at the rest stop and change drivers."
If this was the plan all along, why then extend Rodgers for 3 more years for $150,000,000 and destroy their cap in the process? Seems rather counter intuitive, wouldn't you think?
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 01:35 pm
I could actually give you a very good reason. Think hard. It might come to you.
13TimeChamps
March 09, 2023 at 01:44 pm
Let me guess...that Jordan Love wasn't "quite ready" last year? That explains extending a 39yo QB...with a not insignificant injury history (2 broken clavicles, broken thumb, numerous leg injuries, etc.) to a 3 year $150,000,000 contract?
If that's your "very good reason", I'll have to disagree. If you have a better one, let's hear it.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 02:36 pm
That’s not it.
13TimeChamps
March 09, 2023 at 05:24 pm
Darn it!! Now I'll spend a sleepless night wondering what it is. Maybe, if I do fall asleep, it'll come to me in a dream. Or not. Nobody said life was fair.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 05:37 pm
"We're not idiots!" -- Mark Murphy decreed it so... That's why.
Gutey would've traded him to Denver in a heartbeat, I have no doubt about that...
13TimeChamps
March 09, 2023 at 06:01 pm
Interesting. Thanks for the clarification Leathe....err BirdDog.
So, it's Murphy who's in charge of player acquisition, not Gute.
It's Murphy who nixed the Denver deal to keep Rodgers so Rodgers would remain through Murphy's retirement to keep GB relevant.
It's Murphy who signed Rodgers to that ridiculous contract.
If all this is true, why then did the all powerful Murphy "allow" Gute to draft Love in the 1st round, and languish on the bench for years, to have him replace Rodgers? Kind of seems like a waste of a high draft pick.
Curious minds.......
LambeauPlain
March 10, 2023 at 08:38 am
So either Murphy does everything regarding the football operation or he is not the Acting GM? There is middle ground.
Murphy is letting Gutey make personnel decisions...that is clear. Just as he is letting MLF call the plays and select his staff.
But it is also clear Murphy has injected himself into the GM responsibilities in ways Bob Harlan never would have dreamed and in ways Wolf nor TT would never allow.
However I too have a curious mind about Murphy's 5 year management by committee...why does Gutey put up with it? Perhaps he is taking the long view at the President's chair to be vacated in 2025?
dblbogey
March 09, 2023 at 01:43 pm
Considering Rodgers was getting old and coming off two down years, drafting a QB when we did made sense. Then, after 2 MVP years, it made sense to re-sign him. 20/20 hindsight is always perfect.
BruceC1960
March 09, 2023 at 04:00 pm
Couldn’t agree more. Coming off 2 injury filled and subpar seasons, Gute would have been negligent not having a plan B.
greengold
March 09, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Mark Murphy manipulated the situation into a complete turd.
Brian Gutekunst is doing his best to polish it into a pristine diamond.
Gutekunst has taken what he's been given and is making the most of it to the best of his abilities. His Personnel Staff is one of the most highly regarded in the NFL. As GM of the Green Bay Packers, he ought to have been given more.
If there happens to be any blame to assign, it should fall squarely upon Mark Murphy.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 12:27 pm
"""Mark Murphy manipulated the situation into a complete turd."""
You're going to have to explain this to me. I'm not seeing a turd. I'm seeing the Packers replace their starting QB with a guy who might be pretty good. We're going to get draft compensation. We may even get some salary cap concessions from Rodgers/Jets as part of the deal.
Yes, we could have received more in trade last year, or the year before, but it's 100% possible that the Braintrust didn't think Love was an improvement over Rodgers then, but they do now.
What blame? We're blaming people for WINS!!!!!. Trading Rodgers is a WIN. Clearing the way for Love is a WIN.
I will say this: If Love plays really well, then that's going to boost Gutekunst's standing within the organization, because he got him and prepared him. Murphy is approaching mandatory retirement, and Gutekunst just signed an extension a year ago.
If you'd like Gutekunst to have a bigger voice at 1265, then we're probably on the way to that. If the Packers win. If not, it'll be abunch of new people.
greengold
March 09, 2023 at 01:25 pm
I am all for Brian Gutekunst being made Head of Football Operations for the Green Bay Packers. 100%
Imagine for a second if we didn't have Woody Johnson and his aspirations to insert Aaron Rodgers as starting QB of his Jets, installing Nathaniel Hackett as OC, and clearing the cap deck to insert the best "plug & play" offensive players he can acquire to win it all now...
Where would we be?
Granted, this is not pie in the sky stuff from Johnson. He's riding a top 5 D with a great defensive minded HC, and he wants his proverbially losing Jets to rebound with this trade to win it all. Entirely possible, but, it's going to cost him resources, ones they are willing to spend years paying for.
If not for that, the window to trade AR was last year, while his value was highest, to get the biggest return. That was missed, and that was on Murphy.
We can agree to differ on Murphy. I don't like his MO. Others might be fine with it. Regardless, we're all left to wonder how differently things might have been had Murphy followed Harlan's lead, and let his people run the football side.
The article Gil wrote had much innuendo attached in how to assign blame should things go sideways. That's all I was addressing. We'll see.
We can thank Brian Gutekunst for doing his best to absorb the hits that came under difficult circumstances. A tough situation to maneuver, the AR-JL transition.
The Jets wanting AR air dropped into their offense, no matter the cost, is one helluva godsend given the situation the Packers found themselves in after the 2022 season. Might as well make the most of it.
LH, you & I are not far off in what we think this team is capable of doing. I seriously believe we can contend should this trade or these trades go through. We have holes to fill, and much has to go right, but, we'd have more ammo in April's draft, plus some FA dough to splash around for scheme specific additions.
I'd love to see GB v. NYJ in Super Bowl XLVIII in Las Vegas... and our Packers to win it all. With the right pieces added?
PackyCheese500
March 09, 2023 at 03:09 pm
I think a first this year and a conditional second or third in 2024 that depends on how well the Jets do in 2023 is a fair trade.
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 12:17 pm
Fire his Butt.
Come on Murphy.
He can't judge Talent.
He is replaceable.
Everyone is.
We need a change!
TT had a staff.
Gute is everything he would Fire!
jannesbjornson
March 09, 2023 at 12:27 pm
In Year Six, Ted won the SB for Packertown. This guy has set himself up for an extended stay via Jordan Love.
Remember, Love doesn't have to accept his 5th year deal. This kid is a smart guy. He may not want to endure the same whiffs from the personnel dept as Rodgers and the hillbilly before him.
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 01:04 pm
Actually, if the 5th year option is exercised by the team, he does.
jannesbjornson
March 09, 2023 at 04:05 pm
Sorry about that. Should clarify after his year five deal, he may chose to hear other offers. Just a notion , he has some options dealing with management and any, or all dysfunction that may arise via his coaches influencing his career.
dblbogey
March 09, 2023 at 01:47 pm
Nice facts. Except they aren't true. It's the Packers decision whether to extend the 5th year. If they do, Love has no choice but to stay.
T7Steve
March 09, 2023 at 01:55 pm
He doesn't have to sign it and can sit out a year to become a free agent.
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 02:23 pm
It would toll, so that wouldn’t work. He’d just have to play on that wage for a year if and when he ended his hold out.
Ferrari-Driver
March 09, 2023 at 02:43 pm
Hey Stock,
I think you don't really believe much of what you post and like to do it to get a response. Do you have your tongue in your cheek when you type?
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 03:14 pm
I write how I feel.
Not for Upvotes
Not for Downvotes
That is considered a response.
No tongue.
I do not like persuasive
thinking.
And Gutey is a Liar.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 03:53 pm
"I do not like persuasive thinking..."
That might be the truest thing you've ever typed...
Surprised you didn't type:
"I do not like thinking..."
; P
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 12:22 pm
Gil - I'm with Packers2020...
I don't think Gutey fired McCarthy or hired MaLF...
To me, Gutey seems like TT 2.0 - Gutey will look to FA when TT rarely would. Gutey seems to churn the bottom of the roster as good as any GM in the league.
Gutey's future is definitely tied to Jordan Love and well it should be. He drafted him and if he plays well and continues to develop, Gutey may well be a genius. He needs to continue to be the genius we need. His work is far from done and the most important decisions of his career are upcoming.
Go Gutey Go!
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 12:51 pm
No way.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 12:57 pm
You are so far from reality it scares me.
Maybe go back on your meds sh...
SMH
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 01:43 pm
In some people's world, Gutey = Devil, Murphy = Angel, Love = Demon, La Fleur = Imp and Rodgers = God.
jannesbjornson
March 09, 2023 at 04:02 pm
The Peasants always defend the Monarchy.
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 01:12 pm
Mark Murphy has clearly stated on the Packers website, that Gute does not have hiring or firing authority over coaches and that He, Murphy, was the person who fired McCarthy. Mark Murphy has also made it a matter of public record that he decided LaFleur was the one. He decided to stop the interview process and, further, that this is justified as any CEO bears the responsibility for that choice. He did state that neither Gute nor Ball objected to that decision to him when asked after the fact.
These statements are a matter of public record and still out there if one looks. I’ve quoted them verbatim before. I find it baffling people won’t see or can’t comprehend these fairly simple realities even now.
Hawkhunter
March 09, 2023 at 05:44 pm
If 'Gutey' doesn't get at least 2 number ones and Wilson (Love's back up) for Rodgers it's a fail. Packer fans better get used to losing if Rodgers leaves.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 05:56 pm
I could be way off, but I think we'll get 13 and 43 this year and at minimum a 2nd next year for AR12. If they were to trade Bakh too, that would certainly change things considerably.
I don't think we want Wilson and I don't think the Jets want him to go anywhere. I think they hope AR will help Wilson learn how to be a Pro. AR would certainly help him learn Hackett's (his) offense just by being in the same QB Room with him. Besides, AR already said he likes Wilson.
When AR does hang it up, if Wilson has learned what he needs to, he might be ready to take over the reins.
Oppy
March 09, 2023 at 07:46 pm
If the Packers don't move Rodgers at all costs in 2023, it's the biggest fail imaginable.
This is the time, financially, to cut bait. If the packers don't... They're fucked.
Packers may go through adjustment, but I have a feeling people will surprised at the amount of addition by subtraction this team could experience when they move on from Rodgers.
A whole lot of baggage weighing the team down.
JohnnyLogan
March 09, 2023 at 12:23 pm
After surprising 13-3 seasons LaFleur suddenly looked close to incompetent. Regardless of who was responsible for hiring him, Gute or Murphy, we are stuck with LaFleur and his equally incompetent DC. It's hard to believe that a team with a first-time starter in Love, young and still inexperienced receivers, a poor OL, no safeties, no pass rush, and this feeble coaching staff will save Gute's job. There is a decent amount of talent on the team but I have absolutely zero faith in the coaching. My only hope is that if we have another 8-9 season, the coaching staff isn't given a pass because it's Love's first year as a starter. If I was Gute, the minute LaFleur said he was keeping Barry I would have fired them both.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 12:33 pm
But, but, I'm not sure Gutey even has the power to fire MaLF or Barry?
Think that is Murphy's domain?
MaLF reports to Murphy.
Gutey reports to Murphy...
The Buck stops with Murphy.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 01:01 pm
That's a pretty bleak take on my team.
"..a poor OL.." Seriously? We're returning 5 starters. Two of them are consistently recognized as being above average guys.
..."feeble coaching staff"...."zero faith".......Noted. I think you're way, way wrong on this.
Fire everybody. Fire the only coach that ever started his career with three 13 win seasons because he retained a Defensive Coordinator who did as good of a job as half the teams in the league.
And then we should also fire Gute, because he's the one responsible for us having no pass rush and inexperienced receivers.
Sheeesh. Go root for the Lions. Seriously.
LambeauPlain
March 09, 2023 at 01:35 pm
"Defensive Coordinator who did as good of a job as half the teams in the league."
How many DC's who did worse than Barry last year also had 7 first rounders on their defense? The Packers were 32nd in the NFL playing his preferred cover 4 quarters defense. Gave up the MOST 15+ yard/play in the NFL when playing it.
But this stat is also eye popping: When Barry played Cover 2 (occasionally), the Packers gave up ZERO 15+ yard plays...#1 in the entire NFL. Jerry Gray kept pointing this out but Barry just ignored him.
Barry clearly does not know how to use his players talents...as he also displayed in Detroit and Washington as DC.
Just not a good DC...which is why Gray could not wait to get away from Barry Ball.
Lphill
March 09, 2023 at 01:54 pm
Barry should have been fired after the Eagles game, no question about it.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 02:55 pm
7 first rounders.
2 injured.
2 rookies, one rarely saw the field.
On the vast majority of snaps the Packers took on defense this year, we had 4 first rounders on the field: Alexander, Clark, Walker and Savage.
17th in points, two more than KC.
egbertsouse
March 09, 2023 at 04:16 pm
I know you like the current management structure. I bet you also like the circus, especially the part where all the clowns get out of that little car.
I say fire them all from Murphy on down and get a FO that never heard of Ted Thompson. Time to advance from 2010 and get into 2023.
BTW-I don't give a crap about 13-win regular seasons any more than I care about AR winning those stupid MVPs. That's participation trophy stuff. I want playoff wins and Super Bowl appearances. I want a FO that wants that too, instead of divisional crowns and sledding hills and 3-bedroom condos.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 05:04 pm
If I go to the Circus, I expect to see clowns. When I look at a 100 year old business that does over $500,000,000 a year and involves hundreds of people directly, my assumption is that it's not a circus, and there aren't any clowns.
You and I both want playoff wins. The first step towards that is actually making the playoffs, and winning your division gets you asked to the dance. From there, it's health, luck, an official's call or the bounce of the ball.
Do I like the current management structure? It's kind of new, isn't it? A few years? What is the greatest problem the new structure has created?
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 05:12 pm
"What is the greatest problem the new structure has created?"
Signing an aging QB to a future-killing contract and then trying to trade him a year later. Seriously, were you NOT paying attention to anything over the past year? SMH
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 05:33 pm
OK. You can stop shaking your head. So on the one hand, we've got winning seasons and division championships, and on the other, we have a contract which is "future-killing". But it's also a mistake to try to get rid of the contract by trading him? And this was all caused by the restructure? The decision to bring back the back-to-back MVP wouldn't have been made under the old structure?
Look, we're unhappy about all the money, among other things. Let's see how this all shakes out with compensation and then we can maybe have a different perspective on the contract. I actually admire the way the Packers have engineered this, I think it's a lot better than with Favre.
When the smoke has cleared, I think we're going to have a good, young QB and some draft compensation for the old one, and I also think there might be some financial considerations as well.
Hawkhunter
March 09, 2023 at 05:47 pm
Do you not understand what the market is for a Hof QB? Rodgers said he would restructure to help the team. Gute's in over his head
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 06:35 pm
"The market is what the buyer will bear".
---Famous old guy. Probably rich. fat. and pasty, and probably an undercover perv.
Let's look at the 16 AFC teams.
Not the Chiefs, nor the Bills, nor Cincinnati Probably not the Dolphins and Chargers. Not Denver anymore. Not Jacksonville.
The pool of buyers starts to dry up. Additionally, you have alternatives like Lamar Jackson, or Jimmy Garrapolo, or one of the rookies in the draft.
At the end of the day, it's not a bunch of teams willing to pay a lot of money and draft picks. It's a few. I hope more than one, but one is all we need.
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 01:09 pm
The Barry/Rodgers protection makes me think
Gutey and MLF are Done.
You and your staff can stay home!
He knows he's next.
The best thing for the packers.
Is get Gutey out of here.
Gutey will not Listen.
And when people don't listen.
Everyone Loses.
By keeping Barry.
He had nothing to lose.
The RE-Build is on.
MM hit the wall.
MLF will too.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 01:50 pm
Um, please read the comments above you, especially Coldworld's where he gives explicit quotes about Murphy's actions. To summarize:
1. Murphy, by his own admission, fired McCarthy.
2. Murphy, by his own admission, hired Scooter after only a single short interview.
3. Scooter's coaching staff reports first to him and then, indirectly, to Murphy. Gutekunst has absolutely no responsibilities that involve the actions of the coaching staff, including the staff's won/loss record.
4. Ba'al is responsible for negotiating player contracts which, because Ba'al reports directly to Murphy, are okayed by Murphy, not Gutekunst. Gutekunst has no responsibilities involving player contracts.
As usual, the target of your diatribe (as near as I can translate it into standard English) is misplaced. Here's how part of your Vogon SHOULD read:
"The best thing for the packers.
Is get Murphy out of here.
Murphy will not Listen.
And when people don't listen.
Everyone Loses."
greengold
March 09, 2023 at 03:43 pm
You left an F word out of that last bit, jurp.
;-)
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 09, 2023 at 01:54 pm
Wut
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:29 pm
After 6 games this year the Packers should have fired Barry. The only game the secondary stepped up was when the defensive back coach started yelling in the locker room during halftime. As for Lafleur our offensive genius, we look mighty feeble. Keep throwing the ball MLF. Even if your quarterback has one arm broken. Oh BTW, where was Love when Rodgers had one hand. I'm sure Rodgers demanded to not be taken out of several games. Let's block for Rodgers with 5 offensive linemen all with ACLs.
cdoemel
March 09, 2023 at 05:03 pm
You’re an idiot
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 05:13 pm
What a cogent argument! Such well-worded logic leaves me speechless!
splitpea1
March 09, 2023 at 12:25 pm
I think he can only be fairly evaluated once Rodgers leaves and we see the offensive team he has built around and including Love. As far as the defensive team he has built, it is somewhat obscured by the coaching of Barry. Special teams is still a question mark; you can't really say the attitude has changed about them if he refuses to bring in legitimate competition for Crosby or is unwilling to re-sign key contributors such as Nixon or Ford.
If things look rosy in a couple of years with Rodgers out of the way, then great; if not, send him packing along with MLF.
Packer_Fan
March 09, 2023 at 12:45 pm
There are only 5 days left before this whole thing is over. To think that all these scenarios are viable is very unlikely. The Packers are moving away from Rodgers. The Jets are moving toward Rodgers. Rodgers is moving towards the Jets. I don't think any of the three participants want to screw up this process. Rodgers will be traded. Exactly what the compensation is and the new contracts and if any players go with him, that is what people are working on.
marpag1
March 09, 2023 at 12:48 pm
What's that? A crossroads, you say?
Goodness, how informative!
LOL.
Alberta_Packer
March 09, 2023 at 01:02 pm
Not all crossroads ends well.
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 01:25 pm
It’s not the crossroads, but the choices one makes when one reaches it. The crossroads just provides the options.
Alberta_Packer
March 09, 2023 at 02:23 pm
And with the flow of good choices / decisions - "crossroads" could be avoided or minimized.
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 01:35 pm
Rumor- Rodgers just bought an
apartment in Manhattan.
Thank You - #12.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 02:12 pm
Don't tease!
But really, how on Earth could Rodgers have purchased an apartment in Manhattan while never leaving Malibu? That's not something where you make a call and say "Hi, Jim Bob? Get me something in a nice three-bedroom off Central Park, will you? Yeah, it has to have a gym and sauna. About 10000 square feet should do it. I need to close tomorrow. Right. Thanks"
Lphill
March 09, 2023 at 02:50 pm
I am right near central park I will keep a look out.
Burns37130
March 09, 2023 at 03:15 pm
Actually with his name and money that would be very possible. I know I'll be a Jets fan this year if that's true. Just like I was when Favre went there. Fortunately he's going to the AFC.
Bitternotsour
March 09, 2023 at 07:41 pm
Well. Actually you can do that. You can hire an agent who looks at properties for you, you can review the financials online, you can watch exhaustive video presentations, review the view, talk to members of the HOA board, and possibly even have one of your entourage check it out before you have your financial advisor move the money.
In NY you use a lawyer at closing, and you don't actually have to be present, so yes, he could easily have purchased an apartment.
When I sold my house in Brooklyn, I bought a house in Portland, sight unseen, based on photos on the internet and some knowledge of the neighborhoods. It's a semi-common practice actually.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:33 pm
Try buying an apartment with your Packers stock. Dumb and dumber.
LeotisHarris
March 09, 2023 at 01:41 pm
Gute has his rider by his side, and I don't believe he or the Packers are sinking down.
LambeauPlain
March 09, 2023 at 01:44 pm
Gil never mentioned the Acting GM, Mark Murphy, once in his article.
Gutey has far less football operational control than did TT or The Wolfman before him.
One day we will know, but my sense is Gutey wanted to move on from Rodgers last year when Hackett was probably begging him to take Denver's deal but Murphy nixed it. Likely he capitulated to MLF's whining to keep him and probably Ball who convinced him the cap hole could be "managed".
I also expect Gutey wanted Barry gone, but MLF again prevailed with Acting GM Murphy to give him a 3rd year of milquetoast defense.
Substitute "Murphy" for "Gutey" and the article makes sense.
Alberta_Packer
March 09, 2023 at 02:41 pm
It seems that Murphy is off-limits for the CHTV writers. I don't know if it is due to personal diffidence or internal decree - but Murphy seems to acquired the status of a sacred cow. Thankfully, there are commenters, such as yourself, to provide insightful and balanced journalism.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 05:15 pm
Good point - I haven't been paying enough attention but yes, it sure does seem like the writers here are refusing to tell the emperor that he really has no clothes. Really disappointing, but not, unfortunately, surprising. *sigh*
Paying for access with your balls is no way to go through life.
bsteinwagner30
March 09, 2023 at 01:56 pm
The entire front office should be judged on how the pending departure of AR goes. Understanding that GBP would not have gotten the same return from Denver that they gave Seattle but if the entire package probably would have been at the minimum two #1 picks compared to what is rumored of a second round this year and a conditional next year from the Jets. The rule of Sell High and Buy Low is not in their vocabulary. Not to mention the salary cap hell the GBP were put in for one year of disappointed performance. You had the greatest asset that you now turned into a liability.
bsteinwagner30
March 09, 2023 at 01:56 pm
The entire front office should be judged on how the pending departure of AR goes. Understanding that GBP would not have gotten the same return from Denver that they gave Seattle but if the entire package probably would have been at the minimum two #1 picks compared to what is rumored of a second round this year and a conditional next year from the Jets. The rule of Sell High and Buy Low is not in their vocabulary. Not to mention the salary cap hell the GBP were put in for one year of disappointed performance. You had the greatest asset that you now turned into a liability.
Lphill
March 09, 2023 at 01:57 pm
if Love takes over this year and does well enough to make a wild card but the Defense plays poorly and implodes , who do we point the finger at?
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 02:08 pm
Scooter, and by extension Murphy, because he reports directly to Murphy.
PackyCheese500
March 09, 2023 at 02:54 pm
MLF and Barry.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:39 pm
It will be Rodgers fault.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 02:07 pm
I think that all this talk about a crossroads is using the wrong metaphor - we're at a fork in the road, not a crossroads, because we have only two outcomes: Rodgers comes back, or Rodgers doesn't (trade or retirement). A crossroads implies that we have three options, not two.
Of course, the options we encounter with a fork in the road can lead to either excellence or misery. If we take the wrong fork, things could get pretty ugly, as you'll see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j-dbpcVSm0
And yes, I know that this is a different kind of fork, but the video represents the hyperbole that we'll see if the preferred fork isn't the one the team follows.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 04:20 pm
Downvotes on a Monty Python clip? Tough crowd.
PackyCheese500
March 09, 2023 at 02:51 pm
All I can say is that, whoever is behind these Rodgers trade talks, Gutey or Murphy, kudos to them! Not because I don't like Rodgers. I think it is just time for the Packers to start a new chapter. Maybe we all have been mis-judging Mark Murphy.
Also, how much compensation could we get in return? Some other league executives seem to think it may be pretty low.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:44 pm
We could trade Russ Ball to the Vikings. Then we would get 4 #1s for Rodgers. I'm still impressed how Russ held Rodgers feet to a fire and made him sign a three year 150 million contract. The NFL salary cap is a joke.
Alberta_Packer
March 09, 2023 at 08:20 pm
An up vote for the use of facetiousness and irony.
PatrickGB
March 09, 2023 at 02:52 pm
“When you come to a fork in the road, take it.” Yogi Berra.
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 03:22 pm
I never noticed how pointed
Guteys ears are. ( in that picture.)
Maybe somebody can post a picture
with his face turning red.
That way they match.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 04:22 pm
I KNEW you thought that Gutekunst was the Incarnation of Evil!
SMH.
You need better meds. Or fewer meds, to lessen those nasty side effects.
Seriously, my late father was on 22 meds when he died - a couple were to counteract the side effects of 3 meds that were used to counteract the side effects of other meds. It was ridiculous.
Cheeseheadinseattle
March 09, 2023 at 02:57 pm
I wish all the venom and finger pointing about the Aaron Rodgers situation was redirected towards Joe Barry and his overall miserable defense. Rest assured if AR had a top five defense, there would be more Lombardi trophies in Titletown. A plethora of draft picks were spent on good defensive athletes at the expense of AR and the offense. Keeping Joe Barry is inexplicable and inexcusable to me. After watching the Amari Rodgers fiasco, Green Bay management should wake up and admit Barry was a mistake. Keisean Nixon provided the spark to get Special Teams in a good place, and almost any DC would be an upgrade.
PackyCheese500
March 09, 2023 at 03:07 pm
Agreed. I would be surprised if MLF had a job in 2024 after keeping Barry and Mo Drayton when common sense said not to.
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 03:28 pm
I say the divide between
MLF and Gutey has never
been more obvious.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:06 pm
This entire front office and coaching staff is insufferable.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 04:13 pm
Responding to your Dad?
Seems fitting...
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 06:36 pm
Did somebody get SH wet?
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 08:29 pm
I would accuse sh of having two accounts but not sure he could swing it...
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 04:30 pm
The divide between GM and Head Coach was put in place by Murphy and it's by design - a feature, not a bug. For Pete's sake - how many times do we have to tell you that Gutekunst has NOTHING to do with MLF and his staff?
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:50 pm
Bring back Amari Rodgers. I think MLF played Amari to punish Guteyberger. Let's draft Mary Steamvirgin at tight end.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 06:21 pm
Who are you and where did you come from?
Thinking this is a sh alternate account...
SMH
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 08:30 pm
Can't be a sh sock puppet - this person writes in English. Of a sort.
Burns37130
March 09, 2023 at 03:09 pm
Trading Rodgers for less than 2 1st round draft picks would be a major mistake.
dobber
March 09, 2023 at 03:24 pm
The lower the buying price, the more you can infer about the number of suitors and about how intent management was on getting out from under that contract. If this trade goes through, I believe it to be the right move for the Packers and a year--and one fat nasty contract--too late.
Honestly, I think this would put the chip back on 12's shoulder and he'd have a shot at a very good 2023, but let's judge any trade looking back rather than looking forward.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 04:22 pm
Why Favre went for a conditional 3rd round pick...
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 05:57 pm
The speculation that interested me was when they started talking about financials and how this might be structured. We might end up working a deal that doesn't give much in terms of the draft, but gets us financial concessions instead.
Perhaps that 'fat, nasty contract' isn't the final verse in this song.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 03:56 pm
Oh boy! Another insightful article on Mr. RODGERS holding the fate of Green Bear in his back pocket. Salivate country bumpkins.
RCPackerFan
March 09, 2023 at 03:58 pm
Gutey is definitely sitting at the fork in the road. He can go left he can go right. The choice is his (maybe some others too). Regardless of which way he choses to go, it could mean a lot of current and future success, or it could mean the end of a great run of 30+ years, of a lot of playoff games, and being in contention.
There is a lot at stake for him and the Packers future.
The only thing I hope for is that whatever decision is made, it ends up being the right one. Because the wrong one could be really bad for a long time.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:02 pm
Yep. Put a fork in Gutey. He's definitely an overripe steak.
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 04:40 pm
*You have to be related to sh...
Son? Seems plausible...
CheesedDeadHead
March 09, 2023 at 05:02 pm
"Son? Seems plausible..."
Most likely as SH Demon Seed is probably taken so "spawny" is about right.
RCPackerFan
March 09, 2023 at 04:57 pm
What is overripe steak?
CheesedDeadHead
March 09, 2023 at 04:21 pm
Woody has lots of money so paying Rodgers contract isn't that big of a deal. It's in the $45M total in cap hits the next 2 years, but the roster bonus of ~$59M is the big kicker this year. Probably pocket change for Johnson. Consider the $ thrown to Daniel Jones and Carr, Rodgers is great value. You don't need another bidder. You need Woody Johnson to believe that Rodgers put's them into the ballpark of SB contenders. Here's where ESPN and Stephen A help us out. All Hackett needs to do is say how well Rodger's played after they drafted Love and how he'll respond after being walked to the town border and asked to leave and that's all the Jets management will need to know. Gutey will get the best deal he can and while not in the Wilson/Broncos range, will be closer to the best case scenario than these stupid 3rd/4th round crap. You don't trade a Unicorn for a bag of used footballs.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 04:35 pm
"You don't trade a Unicorn for a bag of used footballs."
You do if the unicorn has only three legs.
But seriously, Rodgers should go for at least one R1 pick. I suspect if there's a sticking point in the trade negotiations, it's that the Jets either want that R1 to be in 2024, not this year, or they don't want to offer an R1 at all. If we had other suitors, we could tell them to eff themselves, unfortunately, it looks like we don't. So - a bag of used footballs it is ! :)
CheesedDeadHead
March 09, 2023 at 04:50 pm
"You do if the unicorn has only three legs."
Let's not bring Danica or Olivia into the discussion... ;)
"But seriously, Rodgers should go for at least one R1 pick. I suspect if there's a sticking point in the trade negotiations, it's that the Jets either want that R1 to be in 2024, not this year, or they don't want to offer an R1 at all."
I think Woody looks at all the draft capital invested over the years in QBs that couldn't do crap and he's willing to give up enough to get Rodgers and keep other teams out of the bidding. The rest of the leadership will follow his direction. In Woody I trust.
Plus their fan base is pretty whipped into a frenzy. If they pass on Rodgers, go for another QB like Garrapaallloolllolloooallallo and he fails, the sharks won't be circling they will be ripping the boat apart.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 04:59 pm
Used footballs? The defensive line including Joe all pro should be wearing used jock straps to match their leader Joe Barry.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 06:07 pm
If the Packers don't want him back, and the only bidder offers a 7th round pick, then that's his value.
But.....if they'll give us a 7th rounder and assume $30 million or so of our debt to Rodgers, then that's different.
I do not know where he'll end up, but it's not going to be Green Bay. Worst case scenario, nobody wants to trade for him, the Packers don't want him back, he doesn't want to retire. In that case......I don't know what happens. The Packers would ultimately have to cut him. He's under contract, you don't want him around, you especially don't want him getting hurt, so you lock him out of facilities?
So, if he's cut.....I have no clue what that means money-wise for the team.
He's not going to be our starter
He's not going to be the backup.
Certainly, somebody wants ARod at a bargain. He's still a better QB than quite a few others.
Worst case scenario will not occur.
Leatherhead
March 09, 2023 at 04:44 pm
I just don't get it.
This should be a time of great rejoicing in the land, especially if you wanted another QB for the Packers next year. He's done. Now we're just negotiating how much compensation we'll get.
We should be happy, but it sure doesn't sound like we are.
CheesedDeadHead
March 09, 2023 at 04:59 pm
"I just don't get it."
Sometimes it's best to quit when you are ahead. ;)
I think there's a bit of PTSD going around. We've been in the will he won't he situation for several years and until it's done some will freak at any news that implies it might not happen. Plus stockholder seems to have plenty of time to spread insanity so it seems like there's a lot of gnashing of teeth when most are happy while the few that were dying on the Rodgers hill will die on that hill no matter what.
Spawny
March 09, 2023 at 05:09 pm
4th and goal from the Vikings 9 yard line. What will Lafleur do this time?
MLF "Hey Jordan, you stay in, drop back and punt."
JL "Yep coach, no problem."
JB "Here I come to save the day."
KC and JA "we think we should have been included in the Rodgers trade with Bahktiari."
DB "Hey Aaron, you got some of that special tea? The Packers are on tv."
AR "GUTEY stole my tea and golf cart when he left for his darkness retreat."
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 05:22 pm
"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."
It's harder for some folks than for others. You're one of the "some folks".
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 05:43 pm
"Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid." -- John Wayne
Certainly applies to several posters today...
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 05:33 pm
Packers get 1 5th rd comp pick
And 1 seventh
PackyCheese500
March 09, 2023 at 05:39 pm
Are you a Packers fan or not? I think it will be a first this year (that is what GB is asking for), and some sort of conditional pick in 2024 or beyond
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 05:53 pm
Was your baby a boy or a girl?
BirdDogUni
March 09, 2023 at 05:42 pm
I can't wait for this to play out now...
You've been so wrong so many times in the past, but I will be ecstatic when so many here rub your nose in your wrongness once again...
stockholder
March 09, 2023 at 05:46 pm
This has nothing to do with Rodgers.
But the Loss of MVS.
Get real Bird.
chill!
Coldworld
March 09, 2023 at 06:39 pm
Now how, pray, did MVS manage to make this happen and why?
Thus explanation should be quite educational.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 08:28 pm
Dammit! You broke the effing Bonkers Scale! AGAIN!
ko40489
March 09, 2023 at 07:18 pm
Gute will be around a while based on Murphy's history of dragging his feet on personnel decisions. Dom Capers, Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy were all kept around for too many years after their performance declined. Let's not forget that Gute created the Rodgers mess not only by the timing of drafting Jordan Love, but also in how he handled Rodgers in the process. If his strategy was to move on to Love, so be it--play that out and trade Rodgers. But instead, he compounds the problem by overreacting and giving Rodgers a huge new contract. Which created a problem with what to do with the 2 QB's. And it's also a problem if Gute finally does want to trade Rodgers. No way the team gets what they would have gotten prior to entering into that huge contract
He grossly miscalculated this situation. Just as he did with Davante Adams. Gute could have re-signed him the year before his contract expired, but didn't. They finally made an offer to make him one of the highest paid receivers in the league when his contract expired, but the damage had been done by then and Adams couldn't be salvaged. So we lost arguably the best receiver in football.
But there's no sign Gute will be held accountable. Murphy just extended his contract about a year ago.
NJMagic
March 09, 2023 at 07:22 pm
I have to say the stars are aligning for Gute.
Rodgers didn't have a great first year, and so presumably we will expect something similar for Love and not crucify the GM.
If they win 6 to 9 games, and look improving, That would be in line with what Rodgers did in his first year.
If he looks like the franchise quarterback, great. Everyone will be thrilled and expect the upswing like with AR on Year 2.
If he flames out, then they will have a high enough draft pick in a fantastic quarterback draft the following year.
Positioned well either way....
SinceLombardi
March 09, 2023 at 07:39 pm
It’s too muddled on who is really running the team. If Murphy hired MLF, then Gute gets a pass on the steady decline we are witnessing. If it was Gute that hired MLF, then I’ll assume he’s going to fire him after this season before MLF gets him fired.
jurp
March 09, 2023 at 08:26 pm
Murphy is on record saying that he hired Scooter. The coach hasn't reported to the GM since 2018.
Boneman
March 10, 2023 at 09:55 am
I'm really kind of tired to keep hearing that AR gives us the "best chance to win now". What proof is there for that? 2010? The Pack has done everything in their power to put Rodgers in the best position to win and in each of the past 3 seasons, with the game on the line and #12 with the ball, he has completely and utterly failed. Why does he give us the best chance to win? I don't get it. Time to see what Love can do, we know what we're going to get with 12.
Packerpasty
March 10, 2023 at 06:28 pm
haha..you funny.."the pack has done everything in their power to put Rodgers in the best position to win"...thats pure B.S....
BoHunter
March 10, 2023 at 12:01 pm
Everything happens in 3s, time to turn the page ❤️🔫💪🏿
It’s going to be a breath of fresh air to be excited about the team. It’s about time we had a leader and not a princess sitting on her throne talking down to the peasants LFG !!!
Cheers,
BoHunter
Packerpasty
March 10, 2023 at 06:29 pm
between podcasts and the same 15 or so people who post the same stuff over and over I predict this CHTV will be on hard times soon, perhaps a thing of the past in a year...how does this site even make any money?? Very few people like the podcasts for one thing..
BruceC1960
March 10, 2023 at 07:03 pm
Nobody forcing you to read it now. I appreciate their effort.