Ryan, Martinez Aren't An Afterthought

The Green Bay Packers have largely been consistent in how they operate in the time that general manager Ted Thompson and head coach Mike McCarthy have been in place.  One example is the inside linebacker position.  Many said that the Packers don't place a high value on the position and, two years in a row, they spent nearly the same pick on one in the fourth round.  2015 saw the addition of Jake Ryan at pick 129 and Thompson took Blake Martinez at pick 131 a year later.  

Two fourth round selection seemed to lend credence to the theory about the Packers and interior linebackers.  On the value chart, a fourth rounder isn't often expected to jump in from day one and be an immediate impact player.  Sometimes good fortune strikes (David Bakhtiari) and it works out.  Otherwise it takes time for most of the players in that category to blossom.

Both Ryan and Martinez are also special teams players which is often the expectation of later-round picks, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'm focusing on their defensive contributions.

In 2015, Ryan logged 260 snaps on defense in 14 games.  He didn't play significant snaps in a game until the eighth game and not regularly until week 13.  Ryan ended 2015 with 50 tackles, one fumble recovery and three tackles for loss.  In 2016, Ryan's snap count jumped to 559 in 14 games.  He contributed 82 tackles, three pass break up's (another three in the postseason) and eight tackles for loss.  Not a bad jump from year one to year two.

In his rookie season of 2016, Martinez played 438 snaps on defense in 13 games and logged 69 tackles, a sack, an interception, four pass break up's and three tackles for a loss.  Not a bad debut.

When Josh Jones was drafted in the second round of this year's draft, much was made about the role he and veteran safety Morgan Burnett would play in a linebacker role.  Kudos to the Packers for evolving and trying this newer concept to man the middle of the field.  The Packers play plenty of nickel and dime on defense so it's not often that Ryan and Martinez are on the field together anyway.  Some wondered if the addition of Jones was an indictment on Ryan and Martinez.

Given what we've already seen from Ryan and Martinez, I'd say the Packers have to be counting on them quite a bit in 2017 and beyond.  The addition of Jones likely was more of a case of a player the team loved being available in a spot that the team felt was of high value.  If Burnett and Jones are capable in the inside role and Ryan and Martinez continue their ascents, the Packers may become quite rich in the middle of their defense.

Inside linebacker was a position of much disdain for the Packers for the past four seasons until last season.  If it's going to continue to improve and help solidify the run defense and pass rush, Ryan and Martinez are going to need to be factors.  Amidst all of the hoopla of this new defensive look and possibility in Green Bay, Jake Ryan and Blake Martinez will likely have a lot to do with the story of the 2017 team.

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Jason is a freelance writer on staff since 2012 and also co-hosts Cheesehead TV Live, Pulse of the Pack and Pack A Day podcasts.  You can follow him on Twitter here

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Comments (49)

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NickPerry's picture

May 22, 2017 at 06:53 am

There was a piece on Packerswire.com where McCarthy spoke about Josh Jones being his 2017 "draft crush". Gutekunst told McCarthy about Jones in November and he became a favorite of McCarthy even before the combine. McCarthy already loved the kid because of the way he played football, the times and drills at the combine in spandex was just icing.

I have no doubt Jones is going to be an important piece of the Packers defense moving forward, but the way people are talking about what this kids role will be as a rookie is a little unreal. It almost seems as though Martinez and Ryan are going to be afterthoughts after first down and I don't think that will be the case at all. If the Packers are going to be a factor in January they'll need Martinez and Ryan to help them get there. I actually like the "Mix" the Packers have at ILB.

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Armand Antonio's picture

May 22, 2017 at 06:57 am

Let's not forget about Joe Thomas, I dont believe he has hit his ceiling either. I'm "ok" with the current ILBs.

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RCPackerFan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 07:30 am

I like Thomas. While he isn't perfect I think he deserves more credit then he gets.

His speed is definitely an asset to the defense. And his hitting ability is truly impressive. The only player on the team that I think hits harder is Brice. While the talk is centered around Ryan, Martinez, Burnett and Jones, I agree that Thomas shouldn't be overlooked either.

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dobber's picture

May 22, 2017 at 10:14 am

I think Thomas has come a long way in his couple years in GB. That's where he definitely deserves credit. I think he's about maxed out in terms of his ceiling, though, because he gets abused in the run game. Still, if the Packers decide to let him go, he'll catch on somewhere else.

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RCPackerFan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:58 pm

He could very well be maxed out, but I still think he has room for improvement. So I wouldn't say he is maxed out yet.

I could end up being wrong, but I don't see them letting him go. At the very least he helps them on special teams.

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gr7070's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:30 pm

Our ILB unit is far better than most think.

Ask the if the actual lBs are solid at worst. All three can cover route runners, which is what matters by far. Thomas and Martinez could be particularly good pass defenders this year.

And then we have a couple safeties that may play there.

I think the drafting of Jones has as much to do with the fact that Burnett may be leaving after this year and Dix the following as it does with anything else. This has also largely been overlooked in discussions post-draft. Ted routinely drafts one year ahead of need, wisely and understandably so.

"ILB" may actually be a unit of strength. I might even have more confidence in it than WRs.

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holmesmd's picture

May 23, 2017 at 07:01 am

HHCD isn't going anywhere. What are you talking about?! Why do you think the Packers would let a 1st round pick walk? The answer is they won't.

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jeremyjjbrown's picture

May 23, 2017 at 11:17 am

I would like to forget about seeing Thomas standing there flat footed while Matt Ryan ran past him into the endzone. But, I just can't wipe that one from my memory.

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RCPackerFan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 07:13 am

I think Ryan and Martinez will be their top 2 ILB's. They will likely play a lot of snaps in their new Base Defense which is essentially a run stopping Nickel.

When they go into the Passing situations or matching up with opposing offenses, I think Martinez will be the lone ILB or will be paired with Burnett or Jones.

Martinez has good speed for a traditional ILB and he could become our 3 down ILB. Ryan I think will mostly be a 2 down ILB.

Hopefully Martinez takes a similar year 2 jump that Ryan took, and hopefully Ryan takes another step. If they become better players our defense will be much improved.

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dobber's picture

May 22, 2017 at 07:36 am

Martinez certainly showed better in agility drills at the combine and at his pro day, but Ryan actually ran a little better (4.65 v. 4.71)...and he was still coming back from an ACL. But I agree with your sentiment that Martinez is probably the better ILB in coverage.

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RCPackerFan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 07:59 am

yeah, just watching them on the field Ryan appears more stiff then Martinez. Which allows Martinez to play faster.

I thought for a rookie Martinez did a good job in coverage last year. I think he could end up being a pretty good 3 down ILB with time to develop.

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gr7070's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:33 pm

PFF had Martinez the highest rated pass defense LB in the entire draft.

I was thrilled they were able to add that kind of LB with a middling draft pick.

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RCPackerFan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:50 pm

Do you know how PFF rated Martinez as a rookie?

He does seem to really know how to cover players. I am looking forward to seeing him in year 2.

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Turophile's picture

May 24, 2017 at 04:10 am

Jason Perone's article is much more to my taste than Dave Nicholson's unfortunate and (imo) incorrect 'Quantity Over Quality' piece (which I took issue with). I think Dave is behind the curve that the Packers are following.

After too long a period when ILB was rather underwhelming, the Packers are changing their MO. In fact, I think there are two stages to their evolution.

First (stage one) comes in an investment in Ryan, who has average athleticism but superb diagnostic skills. Next year, a similar investment was made in Martinez, again not especially gifted athletically, but again, a guy with a tremendous intuitive grasp of the position and with a college reputation as a high quality coverage type linebacker.

Second comes a shift in thinking, as the Packers begin to use Burnett as a sort of ILB. They like the idea and the results, so they shift gears from the super-instinctive, but average (for the NFL) athlete, and go and get another guy who can (should) do what Burnett does, only Josh Jones is considerably more athletic than Burnett, measuring 6'1", 220lb, with a 4.41 40 time.

It's a fascinating evolution at ILB, and great to see the Packers evolving under McCarthy and not in much danger of becoming outdated any time soon. The ILB position seems to be changing over time,. Going, but not quite gone yet, are the two big bruisers inside filling run gaps, as the smart defenses look instead for more instinctive guys (who know when to go where) and then great athletes (that give the Packers great coverage range). This is all a part of a defensive response to increasingly pass-oriented offenses.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 24, 2017 at 01:52 am

I agree with a lot of your post, Turophile. Ryan's instincts are impressive. I don't think Burnett has good instincts at all, which is why it took him some time to develop. Burnett was a very good athlete, and now has acquired veteran savvy.

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MarkinMadison's picture

May 22, 2017 at 07:15 am

There is no doubt that when CM3 flexed into the middle of the defense in 2014 that it was a shot in the arm to a position group lacking play makers. Ryan and Martinez were drafted since then. So it is fair to ask have they been able to bring enough juice to the position. I think the jury is still out.

Now factor in the evolution of the position. The Burnetts and the Deon Buchanons of the world eating up some snaps.

These guys can't take anything for granted.

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Handsback's picture

May 22, 2017 at 07:22 am

I get the feeling, hate that expression but only thing I can think of this morning, that people think Jones will be slotted into a ILB or OLB position. I don't think (my opinion) that's the case. He will be playing closer to the LOS allowing him to split blockers and either sack or get after the RB behind the LOS or latch on to possible pass catchers as they go over the middle. This will be a hybrid position. He won't play OLB and take on those blockers to hold the end. His job will be to penetrate and wreak havoc. Usually, not always, the LBs have an assigned area of responsibility to either hold ground or attack the ball carrier. The hybrid position will be part LB and part safety. In college these guys are used all the time, but rather new for the pros.

I could be all wet, but that's my thinking on Jones/Burnett going forward. It will be extremely important for guys like Ryan and Martinez to maintain their presence in the middle shutting down the run and also denying pass receivers’ free rein over the middle.

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MarkinMadison's picture

May 22, 2017 at 09:37 am

Yes but, if you are putting a hybrid on the field who are you taking off the field? I think usually one of your ILBs right?

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croatpackfan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 07:27 am

Nice overview. I agree with most of your conclusions. I think this season D will be much improved regarding last season, baring injuries...

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Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

May 22, 2017 at 08:11 am

I consider Jones a pure hybrid--his own position. I envision a lot of 3-3-1-4 type alignments, with Jones being the 1.

As for Ryan and Martinez, they'll both see solid snaps in various packages. Let's keep in mind the only LB on this team assured of major snaps (if healthy) is Perry--Matthews has to be on a snap count. That leaves Ryan, Martinez, Fackrell, and others rotating in.

Ryan and Martinez will play a big role. And I believe they'll keep improving enough to play that role well.

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Matt Gonzales's picture

May 22, 2017 at 09:02 am

Probably not a starter or even week 1 contributor, but don't forget about Aaron Taylor, who also looks like he can play the hybrid role. I like that the Packers took a similar position on D to their offense - lots of different looks you can get out of the same guys to address different matchups.

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Handsback's picture

May 22, 2017 at 10:27 am

Matt, you make made me remember that Green Bay wanted to do this with the big safety from Vanderbilt before he got hurt. Since then, they seemed to have had an eye on players that fit that mold. Brice from last year was probably groomed for that as well. Let's see if they implement it now they have a few players they can use including backups in case injuries hit.

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Thegreatreynoldo's picture

May 24, 2017 at 02:03 am

Richardson was the epitome of what we should not do. Yes I know he was tall, big, and fast, but he couldn't cover at Vanderbilt and he couldn't cover in the NFL. He was absolutely terrible and a poor fit for the evolving nature of the hybrid ILB.

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ThxJackVainisi's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:55 pm

I think Aaron Taylor is going to have trouble making the 53, even if Josh Jones doesn't count as one of the 4 safeties they usually keep. Ha Ha, Burnett, and Brice are locks so with one other spot perhaps available, he'll be battling Marwin Evans and Jermaine Whitehead for that spot. Taylor may be headed to the practice squad.

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Matt Gonzales's picture

May 22, 2017 at 02:18 pm

Could be very true. I think that could also depend on how much ILB they expect Jones to play in year 1.

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egbertsouse's picture

May 22, 2017 at 09:02 am

I understand what TT is doing with smaller ILBs and hybrid LB/Safeties. It makes sense because it is a passing league. My question is: What is Dom going to do when Zeke Elliot or Laveon Bell come to town? These "little" guys will get crushed, won't they?

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Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

May 22, 2017 at 09:19 am

Exactly my feelings as well, which is why we need to move away from the alignments with only 2 D-Linemen.

I think Dom was adapting to personnel. Last year's D-Line was either really young (Clark, Lowry, Ringo, Price) or unreliable (Guion, Pennel). This year, we have a much deeper and more reliable rotation.

Combine that with a more experienced LB core, and we shouldn't be too dependent on stopping the run with a Smurf collection.

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Matt Gonzales's picture

May 22, 2017 at 09:44 am

Another good reason for the hybrids - it will hopefully allow GB to play with a 3-player front more often with players that can adapt their role to the situation. It's a lot to ask these guys to diagnose and adjust on week 1 but I'd like to think the eventual goal is to get more pressure on the pocket from our DL, with ILBs that can either come up to the line or drop into coverage depending on the situation. Would definitely take some pressure off the OLB position.

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ThxJackVainisi's picture

May 22, 2017 at 01:05 pm

I see this comment a lot about having a three man DL instead of the 2-man front in the 2-4-5. But the 2-4-5 is really a four-man DL with the OLBs on, or very near the LOS. So the question is would you prefer an extra DL vs. the more athletic OLBs in a pass happy NFL?

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Andrew Lloyd Peth's picture

May 22, 2017 at 02:23 pm

I would DEFINITELY prefer a 3rd DL. No question about it. Using only 2 forces us to overcompensate against the run, moving extra bodies in the box and hemorrhaging big gains on the back end.

3 D-Linemen, please.

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gr7070's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:42 pm

In large part I'm not worried about it.

If a team wants to compete using their running game vs our passing game I'll happily do that all game, all season. Passing is far more efficient than running.

It's not like these guys are incapable of tackling a running back. Sure it's not their forte, but we want guys who defend the pass as their forte.

Funny thing is the two RBs you used as examples happen to provide a lot of value as receivers!

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snowdog's picture

May 22, 2017 at 10:41 am

The observation not yet noted,that might influence the number of snaps Martinez sees,is the"on field" moxie .

The coaches must have enough faith in his defensive calls to hand over the headset to "Quarterback" the defense,to a rookie !

I'm Justa-sayin.

That ones for you Wortjek (sp?)

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worztik's picture

May 22, 2017 at 11:09 am

Close enough Snowdog... I pretty much agree with everyone's comments today. I believe ILB will be a position of strength this year as compared to past years' players and performance! I really hope we're not putting unattainable expectations on JJ coming in as the savior of our D. I, also, feel that he will be a great addition but, if we set the expectations too high for any one player, we leave ourselves open to disappointment and negativity! I'm trying to curtail my obvious excitement for this years' Packers team and I only hope that whatever injuries that we suffer will be few and far between. Good health to ALL of the boys and GOD SPEED... just sayin'...

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gr7070's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:48 pm

Martinez had a headset helmet last year. I doubt he'll be giving that up.

While I think Jones and/or Burnett will spend some time playing ILB, I think far too much of this is being made. Especially with regard to drafting Jones.

We have solid or better ILBs. We have good safeties that will also be playing what has traditionally be an ILB role. The ILB will be going away as the years progress anyway. It will be similar, but far more pass oriented and much less rush.

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snowdog's picture

May 22, 2017 at 01:29 pm

I didn't notice who had the headset when he wasn't on the field

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Lphill's picture

May 22, 2017 at 11:32 am

Joe Thomas is more safety size than ILB , like Someone said earlier what's going to happen playing good running teams , Ryan is the biggest of the inside backers unless Clay is in the mix, so I guess against the run we will have to depend on the D line more , just no more 2 D lineman please Dom against the run .

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snowdog's picture

May 22, 2017 at 11:51 am

Anonymous . Too much clowning for a Monday ? Seriously , have a good Monday.

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PatrickGB's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:10 pm

Thomas lost weight before the season last year and became a better player. it showed. But he still was no match when forced to cover WR's. Having a Safety back there instead is a good idea. ILB's were called upon to blitz on a few plays and didn't get there in time. A safety could have been quicker. So I like the idea of hybrid players. My only concern is the run D. The lighter guys can get creamed!

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Finwiz's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:20 pm

That's the trade-off with hybrid LB's. Faster = better pass rush, and great on TE coverage, but lighter weight means blown out by tackles and guards, OR FB's on running plays. Packers have enough problems with rush coverage without complicating matters with 215-220 pound ILB's.

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snowdog's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:12 pm

Sorry for triple post. dang rookies

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JohnnyLogan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 12:51 pm

There's was a play against Atlanta where Julio Jones was being covered by Gunter. Championship game. Ten men at the line, aside from HaHa who was playing 20 yards deep. The middle of the field had no one there. No one. Not a safety, not a CB, not a LB. All at the line, and no one dropped back into coverage, leaving a plodding Gunter to cover one of the great receivers in the league one on one on a Texas plain. It naturally went for a TD. Purpose of this observation is my constant reminder that Dom Capers is part of this defense. Evaluating the players is fun and necessary, and I like our LB's and safeties, especially with the addition of Jones, but if Dom puts them in situations where they can't compete, than I don't care how good they are. He has to go before this defense makes a jump. I've said it every year on every forum and been ridiculed relentlessly. Every year I'm proven right. Tell me I'm wrong.

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Finwiz's picture

May 22, 2017 at 01:33 pm

A-FREAKING-MEN!!
You of course are NOT wrong.
But there are LOTS of examples of derelict schematic principles, I just don't have time or desire to note them on a game by game basis. Many plays where it's clearly obvious there's a flaw in the scheme, particularly the gaps in the zone where the underneath coverage drops it to the outside zone, and it doesn't happen seamlessly. (frequently)

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worztik's picture

May 22, 2017 at 03:23 pm

Fin... I can't help but wonder if it's a scheme thing or a lack of players executing what's required of them? I'm certainly not defending ol' Don here... just askin'...

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worztik's picture

May 22, 2017 at 03:25 pm

DOM... sounds like an Italian hit man!!!

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Finwiz's picture

May 22, 2017 at 04:05 pm

I hear you Worz, but these are relatively intelligent athletes, they all went to college. We see the same errors over, and over, same dropped coverages. So I can only conclude the system has flaws, or is too complicated, too convoluted for players to execute at game speed.

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Matt Gonzales's picture

May 22, 2017 at 04:14 pm

I'm sorry, but GBs defense is not the only one with busted plays. You can't cherry pick examples without comparing it against the league for blown coverages or assignments. Your last remark of game speed says a lot - the players have to diagnose a play by subtle movements and shifts and react immediately. Little to no margin for error. Not a Dom defender but a bigger picture is needed. How many times do those gambles work vs. not work? How many times is it read correctly? What is the broken coverage norm for abnormal defensive formations?

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JohnnyLogan's picture

May 22, 2017 at 11:15 pm

Don't need to cherry pick. Ask any Packer fan how confident he is we'll stop a 3rd and long. It's Pavlovian, we've seen the negative outcome so often that when we're in that situation there's an audible state-wide groan heard from Eagle River to Racine. Capers has had dozens of DB's and LB's. None outside of Woodson seem to have been able to make a stop when necessary. I'm only slightly exaggerating. I ask again, Matt, how confident are you going into the season with Capers when year after year we have the same fear going into the season and the same result at the end. We've set negative records that may never be broken. Kaepernick made us look like a high school defense. Stefon Diggs was a superstar against us and the Capers apologists we're calling Diggs the next Antonio Brown. He did nothing much after our game. And that was before all the injuries hit. It's time to get rid of the totally inept Capers who's been living off a reputation as a genius based on nothing that I've ever seen.

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NickPerry's picture

May 23, 2017 at 05:06 am

There seems to be a play like that every year in the Playoffs. It wasn't just last year JohnnyLogan.

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MITM's picture

May 25, 2017 at 07:32 am

If you watch Aaron Taylors highlights (which are promising) you'll for sure notice a little white dude, a LB #2 showing up in most of the highlights. #2 was a guy named Zack Ryan. Jake Ryans little brother. Small world.

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