Results of "The Packers Core Twelve" Survey

You voted, we deliver: the Packers' Untouchable Twelve that Ted Thompson should make his core group of players through 2016!

A few days ago, I proposed a little discussion about how Ted Thompson should look toward the future in, really, what is his "second season" of his tenure as general manager: now that the team has been built, how do you extend the life of that team before the law of averages takes it on its eventual decline?

Albert Breer provided the impetus: following the model of the Patriots or the Colts, the Packers should identify its core group of twelve players, then lock them down while allowing the positions around them to be addressed through the draft. But it brought up the question: who would the Packers' twelve core players be? I gave my stab at it, and some of the most thoughtful and astute conversation took place thereafter...enough to make me even reconsider some of my picks.

In the end, I left it to you, the CheeseheadTV rabid fanbase, to take a survey to decide who you thought the top 12 should be, and 270 didn't disappoint. Without any further ado, here are the CheeseheadTV's Untouchable Twelve, as selected by you, in order.

1) Aaron Rodgers (mentioned on 99.3% of surveys, #1 on my list)

Nothing to be too surprised about here, other than trying to figure out who did NOT include him on their list. I noticed one of the surveyor IP addresses was from Mississippi. Hmmmm...

2) Clay Matthews III (98.5%, #2 on my list)

Another no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned.

3) BJ Raji (94.4%, #3 on my list)

The Freezer actually generated a little discussion when Jersey Al Bracco, John Rehor, and I debated in on Cheesehead Radio last night.  While we all thought he should be on the list, Al and John debated whether he should rank this high on the list.  I think he's just fine there:  you can never have too many defensive linemen, and right now, we don't have enough...much less those that play at the level Raji brings.

4) Jordy Nelson (94.1%, #5 on my list)

If any player has established himself as a player for the long haul, its Nelson, who's had a career year.  Having him actually rank ahead of Greg Jennings, if even by the most Iowa-Caucusy of margins, is a testament to how far he's come.

5) Greg Jennings (93.3%, #8 on my list)

Jersey Al had a good point:  if Jennings had been hurt and out of the lineup the past few weeks before this survey was taken, chances are he might not be behind Nelson on the list.  Kind of our own Packer version of the stock market.

6) Bryan Bulaga (90.4%, #9 on my list)

You have to have a few guys to build an offensive line around, and Bulaga is one of them.  As Al said, it would be nice if we had a bookend to match.

6) Tramon Williams (90.4%, #7 on my list)

Tied with Bulaga, Tramon is going to have to be the anchor for the secondary if Woodson and Collins end their careers sooner rather than later.

8 ) Josh Sitton (81.9%, #4 on my list)

Hard not to include a guy to be around until 2016 when he's the only guy on the roster signed through 2016.  Little debate on whether an interior lineman would really be considered a core player, but at least you know one side of the line is solidified.

9) Desmond Bishop (75.9%, #6 on my list)

A little surprised to see Bish fall down the list (particularly with a quarter of fans not even including him on the list).  If you are going to run a 3-4 defense, you better have linebackers that come to play.

10) Randall Cobb (67.8%, #12 on my list)

Not surprised to see Cobb make it, though I think all of us have to wonder if a team would really keep three wide receivers as core players.  That said, Pat Lee just reminded us exactly how important Cobb is in the return game, and his contributions in the passing game is just going to get better.

11) Jermichael Finley (56.3%, not on my list)

A great back-and-forth between Rehor and Bracco on CHR Thursday night, as the titanic topic of what to do with Finley exploded between two very strong opinions.  Bracco asserted that you tag him because of his incredible talent, and doesn't believe he's going anywhere.  Rehor countered that he's overrated and isn't going to be worth the money he's going to get waved at him elsewhere.  But we all hedged on the need  to put him on the Core Player list. Personally, I think a guy who you're going to tag to keep around for one more year can't be viewed as a core player, and 43.7% of you agree with me.

12)  Morgan Burnett (43.7%, not on my list)

Another great debate on this one, mostly accompanied by the grumblings of not being able to put Nick Collins on the list due to his uncertain future struggling with a neck injury.  I can't see him as a core player when "communication errors" plagued him and Charlie Peprah all season long.  That said, safeties sometimes take a few seasons to really acclimate themselves to the awareness the position requires.  It took Collins a few years, so there's some reason to put him on the list based on potential alone.

A lot of players didn't make this particular list, including AJ Hawk, Sam Shields, Scott Wells, John Kuhn, Derek Sherrod, and of course, Tim Masthay.  This is something that can be debated all the more, but make no mistake:  there's room for some great discussion when it comes to the appraisal of the abilities of the players we follow obsessively.

Want to listen to the great discussion had by myself, Al, and John on Cheesehead Radio as we go through your votes?  Here you go! Thanks to all of you for taking the time to pick your Core 12 and make for some great discussion this week!

The full list:

Aaron Rodgers (2014) 99.3% 268
Clay Matthews (2013) 98.5% 266
BJ Raji (2013) 94.4% 255
Jordy Nelson (2014) 94.1% 254
Greg Jennings (2012) 93.3% 252
Bryan Bulaga (2014) 90.4% 244
Tramon Williams (2014) 90.4% 244
Josh Sitton (2016) 81.9% 221
Desmond Bishop (2014) 75.9% 205
Randall Cobb (2014) 67.8% 183
Jermichael Finley (2011) 56.3% 152
Morgan Burnett (2013) 43.7% 118
Scott Wells (2011) 38.5% 104
Sam Shields (2012) 33.3% 90
TJ Lang (2012) 25.6% 69
Nick Collins (2013) 24.1% 65
Tim Masthay (2012) 12.2% 33
Mason Crosby (2013) 11.5% 31
Derek Sherrod (2014*) 9.3% 25
John Kuhn (2011) 8.9% 24
James Starks (2013) 7.4% 20
Marshall Newhouse (2013) 7.0% 19
DJ Smith (2014) 5.2% 14
Charles Woodson (2014) 4.8% 13
Ryan Pickett (2013) 4.1% 11
James Jones (2013) 3.0% 8
AJ Hawk (2015) 2.2% 6
Mike Neal (2013) 1.9% 5
DJ Williams (2014) 1.9% 5
Another Player 1.5% 4
Tom Crabtree (2012) 1.1% 3
Alex Green (2014) 1.1% 3
Andrew Quarless (2013) 1.1% 3
Jarrett Bush (2011) 0.7% 2
Donald Driver (2012) 0.7% 2
Matt Flynn (2011) 0.7% 2
Rob Francois (2012) 0.7% 2
Ryan Grant (2011) 0.7% 2
Charlie Peprah (2012) 0.7% 2
Frank Zombo (2012) 0.7% 2
Chad Clifton (2012) 0.4% 1
Evan Dietrich-Smith (2012) 0.4% 1
Howard Green (2011) 0.4% 1
Davon House (2014) 0.4% 1
Pat Lee (2011) 0.4% 1
Brandon Saine (2013) 0.4% 1
Vic So'oto (not sure) 0.4% 1
Erik Walden (2011) 0.4% 1
Jarius Wynn (2012) 0.4% 1
Brett Goode (2012) 0.0% 0
Lawrence Guy (2014) 0.0% 0
Graham Harrell (2013) 0.0% 0
Brad Jones (2012) 0.0% 0
Ryan Taylor (2014) 0.0% 0
CJ Wilson (2013) 0.0% 0
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Comments (21)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
PackersRS's picture

January 06, 2012 at 09:34 pm

Interesting that of the top 12 guys voted, only Finley and Jennings aren't signed long term.

And I see a lot of Packers players browse through CHTV...

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Gregg Roberts's picture

January 06, 2012 at 09:38 pm

Less than 50% consensus on the #12 tells me that the core should not be 12 players big. There's too little likelihood that the 12th player is good enough to be locked up as a sacred 12.

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stevehj's picture

January 06, 2012 at 09:39 pm

Really interesting that determining the twelve core players are really was not that difficult or did not result in a lot of differing opinions. I am wondering if we could now take this a step further and determine how much the Pack can afford to pay these core players and not handcuff the team such that we can't keep enough good second tier players? Doesn't TT follow some guidelines like that and if a player wants more than the position warrants, it is likely they won't get signed?

Beyond that analysis, seems like Indianapolis had a situation where Manning was getting such an enormous amount, that Indy could not afford to pay for enough good players around him. And in contrast I thought Brady in New England agreed on some salary restructuring to help keep some critical players. You got to figure these kinds of challenges will confront the Pack in the near future.

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MarkinMadison's picture

January 06, 2012 at 09:54 pm

And I think, hope and pray that AR will follow the Brady model. Honestly, when you look at what Indy got out of the Manning era in terms of hardware, I kind of shuttered at the initial premise of the article - how do we emulate the Indy model. But it is what it is.

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packsmack25's picture

January 07, 2012 at 02:11 am

Manning=choker.
Rodgers=clutch.

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PackersRS's picture

January 07, 2012 at 09:45 am

Well, if you look at the first 7 years of that regime, and you compare to these last 5 years, it's different.

You'll notice a certain urgency these last 5 years, with moves all too familiar with what we've seen from Sherman, trying to maximize their chances of winning with Manning.

Polian definitely changed his model for Manning.

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IowaPacker's picture

January 06, 2012 at 09:47 pm

Bulaga's bookend is Iowa's O-Linemen Riley Rieff- check him out. Too bad the Pack didn't go after Karl Klug on defense, he's been a monster for the Titans. Kirk Ferentz may not be winning Big Ten championships, but he knows how to develop linemen on both sides of the ball.

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BrianD's picture

January 06, 2012 at 11:50 pm

It's funny how the 3rd ranked player may not even make the list next year. Raji was great in 2010-2011, especially in the playoffs (right about the time I got his jersey from my gf after saying he was one of my 3 favorite Packers). 2011-2012 is a different story. He's one of the worst defensive lineman in the league against the run, has 22 tackles on the year (tied for 492nd), has 3 sacks after 6.5 last year, and you know how the inside blitz never reaches the QB? Yeah, those are blockers that Raji is not taking up at the LoS. As much as I love the kid, Raji needs to have a bounceback year in 2012-2013 or a strong playoff run this year for me to even consider him a cornerstone of the GB 3-4 like I did a year ago.

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BrianD's picture

January 07, 2012 at 12:08 am

Also, from PFF's most undeserving pro bowl selections:

"B.J. Raji, NT, Green Bay Packers

PFF Rating: -15.6

PFF Conference Ranking: Last

Analysis: Raji started off the year hot but since then? Well he’s our lowest rated tackle in the NFC so that should tell you everything. He doesn’t get off blocks to make tackles, and rarely penetrates into the backfield with his play being bad enough to result in a reduction in playing time. Gone are those dominant displays and now you rarely notice that he’s on the field. That is what has become of Raji so his selection, more than any other, discredits the Pro Bowl. Sure Kevin Williams isn’t the player he once was, and sure Alan Branch doesn’t have a big reputation, but those guys are actually influencing games. Heck, we’ve criticized Ndamukong Suh before but at least he consistently generates pressure on the QB. Raji, in 2011, has done so little on so many snaps he shouldn’t even been in the conversation. A real fail on this front.

Key Fact: Has made 10 defensive stops all year. That’s less than a player like Isaac Sopoaga."

ugh

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ibleedgrnngold's picture

January 07, 2012 at 08:28 am

when its 3 on 5 with the other 2 out of the three doing next to nothing, its hard to win any battles, besides, 3-4 NT stats are gravy. his job is to occupy blockers to let the backers make the plays. we just got spoiled last year when he had some help and room to work

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PackersRS's picture

January 07, 2012 at 09:57 am

Well, yes, it did affect, but IMO not enough for this kind of performance.

Raji players terribly this year, no way around that. But he's 25 and has already been a key component of a SB win. One bad season, where he didn't have much help, shouldn't be enough to take him off the "core twelve" group.

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Anthony's picture

January 08, 2012 at 12:36 am

I understand that you want to defend Raji, but look at it this way: How many times has he made a big impact on any game this year? How about last year? Looks like a shadow of his former self out there, maybe because he's taken so many snaps. Maybe no Training camps really hurt him (since many big guys generally use that time to buff up again). Also, if you go to profootballfocus, you would know that their ratings are as "factual" as you can get in football. He's looked horrible this year.

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Idiot Fan's picture

January 08, 2012 at 10:35 pm

I love Raji, but he has definitely had a down year. I don't know enough to know if the switch back to end has made adifference or not. I think the pro bowl nod may have largely been due to last year.

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jeremy's picture

January 09, 2012 at 08:11 am

Raji needs to move back inside. His relative quickness and power are wasted on the edge against offensive tackles who's feet and hands are just as good or much better than his. Pickett is very, very stout, but not quick enough to be disruptive on the inside the way Raji can be.

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Bob's picture

January 07, 2012 at 08:31 am

Hard to argue with this list, but do you think the Packers could, maybe keep 14 players or 15. Yes, that would be perfect, no, that won't do. Alright 15 that's all I want for Christmas next year is 15. Wait, letting Santa off easy, not this year, let's go with 16, 17, 18. Yes that will do 18 would be a good start. To hell with the Patriots and Colts. The Pats last win in the playoffs was a long time ago and the Colts lost one of their 12 and are stinking up the joint. :)

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redlights's picture

January 07, 2012 at 09:30 am

I thought Bishop was more replacable after seeing Francois and Smith play. While the young'uns aren't there yet, I think they're the future.

Do the Raiders have any good players? They need draft picks, maybe we could do a deal.

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andrew harman's picture

January 08, 2012 at 11:33 pm

i think thats why hawk doesnt get many votes either.. also doesnt get a lot of love from fans. but with two solid young linebackers that both look like they will fill the spot well and may turn into improvements over the current starters. its hard to say bishop or hawk are key 12

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jeremy's picture

January 09, 2012 at 08:12 am

Hawk isn't going to bore the fans into loving him.

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DrewTheDraftGuru's picture

January 09, 2012 at 07:46 am

First, yes, the Raiders to have good players. They have Darren McFaden, Michael Bush, Heyward-Bey (who has played pretty well and has definitely outperformed Crabtree), Richard Seymour, Sebastian Janikowski, Shane Lechler, Aaron Curry (although how good he is, is debatable I guess), and Rolando McClain. They have a few really good players and a lot of pretty good players (unfortunately for them, two of their great players are K's and P's).

Hawk is the almost guy, so he's definitely replaceable. He almost covered a guy but is one step behind, he almost stopped the RB behind the first down marker but didn't, he almost got a sack but the QB threw the ball for a completion.

Bishop is a totally different story, though. He was leading the league in tackles for a while. I haven't checked recently so I don't know where he finished on the list. The more he plays the more passes defended he racks up as well. That's really the problem with our young guys. DJ Smith was pretty good, but he's no Bishop and Bishop is our best ILB. If Smith could play Hawk's LB position then he could probably win the spot, but he plays Bishop's spot. :/

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DrewTheDraftGuru's picture

January 09, 2012 at 07:36 am

I don't think Randall Cobb has shown enough to be deserving of being on this list. Sure, he's a good KR, but I don't find it so easy to ignore his fumbles. He's a WR that can go over the middle, but he hasn't shown he can be a real force as a WR yet. It's hard to see Cobb on the list when guys like Crosby, Masthay, Sherrod and Shields didn't make it. I'd take Burnett off the list as well, even though I like his potential.

Sherrod would have made my list with Shields over Cobb and Burnett had he not gotten injured, but with the injury I'll put Shields and Crosby on the list.

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packsmack25's picture

January 09, 2012 at 12:43 pm

Okay, I voted for HoGreen, Lee, and Walden on my sarcastic ballot. Who the hell voted for the other guys with 1 vote?

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