Railbird Off the Mark

Brian Carriveau is one of the best Packer bloggers you will find anywhere on the Internet.

And he is very, very wrong about this.

I understand that Brian thinks the Packers made a mistake in cutting Tyrell Sutton. I don't happen to agree, but I get where he's coming from. But saying that drafting Quinn Johnson was a mistake is just absurd.

What Brian, and countless others, don't understand about the draft is that it should not be a panacea to what currently ails a football team, and teams that treat it as such usually end up treading water for years. The Johnson pick is not about 2009, though anything the Packers get from him this year is a bonus. No, it's for when Kuhn and Hall, set to be unrestricted free agents in 2010 and '11 respectively, are ready to walk. Rather than fretting over keeping them, the Packers will already have their replacement on the roster.

Another great recent example of this philosophy is the drafting of Jarius Wynn. With Johnny Jolly set to become a UFA after the season, Wynn will be ready to take his place, if his play warrants it - and the early returns look promising. Now, this doesn't mean the team will dismiss the notion of resigning Jolly outright. But it does give the team breathing room and the ability to affix what it thinks is a fair price tag to Jolly's services and not waver from it. If he wishes to re-sign on Packer-friendly terms, great. If not, see ya!

(BTW - if you didn't at the time or have forgotten about it, check out Bedard's excellent column - sorry, sub required - on this very subject from several months ago)

Fans like to live and die season by season with their teams. Every move, especially in this day and age, is scrutinized and blown up and magnified until each and every transaction is a catastrophe or the move that puts the team in the Super Bowl. But it's a, yes, mistake to fall into that trap and I feel like Brian has here. Maybe it's an emotional reaction to his strongly held belief that the Packers would absolutely positively be keeping four running backs that has been proven incorrect that has him lashing out a bit, but he would be wise to step back, look around the league at teams like the Colts and the Steelers and watch how they have built their teams into annual contenders.

It's by drafting and developing players much the way Thompson is.

 

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Comments (25)

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Ryeguy812's picture

September 10, 2009 at 12:34 pm

If memory serves me, critics were lambasting TT about drafting Jermichael Finley two years ago because he was a "project" and there were needs elsewhere and they already had a TE on the roster they just paid, etc etc. That decision looks pretty good right about now with Finley poised to breakout after spending his first year on the bench.
Its a "win now" league, but the teams that win now are the ones who planned ahead in previous years.

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Ron La Canne's picture

September 10, 2009 at 12:58 pm

I don't think the difference between Wynn and Sutton is much. The RB problem could be exasperated by Jacksons' ankle. If it goes from day-to-day to Week-to-Week GB will wish they had Sutton available. But, those are the risks! Lumpkin is still there on the Practice Squad and Hall could play RB in a pinch. If they can average 4 to 4.5 ypc the running will do its' job. Their main focus is to keep defenses honest and let the passing game open it up. They don't need to dominate. So, good blocking backs have a higher premium than good runners.

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Ruppert's picture

September 10, 2009 at 01:17 pm

I contend that they drafted Johnson for the same reason they made the O line adjustments they did--for the power running game. As the season goes on, I think you'll see Johnson getting quite a few reps on FB leads on inside runs. I'm dying to see him go flying into Venus and Serena Williams.

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Brian Carriveau's picture

September 10, 2009 at 01:24 pm

The draft is always a crapshoot. As such, when teams don't fill a need, an even bigger hole is created. Even though a guy like A.J. Hawk hasn't lived up to his No. 5 overall billing, at least he filled a need at linebacker.

Oh, and by the way, don't be fooled. I'm never wrong;)

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wgbeethree's picture

September 10, 2009 at 01:26 pm

Couldn't agree with you more here Aaron. So many times you here people say that a pick doesn't make sense because their team doesn't have a need at that position. Well most smart GMs aren't looking at the needs they have right now. Most rookies aren't going to immediately step in and fill those needs anyways. Most take at least a year or two to be able to adjust to the pro game and that is when they need to be filling a ''need''. Take the Jordy Nelson pick for example. Many people said we have plenty of good recievers and could have waited a few rounds and picked someone who could be a 4th reciever. Well TT wasn't looking for a 4th reciever for 2008 he was looking for someone who could step in for DD in 2010 or 11 and the offense wouldn't skip a beat. Justin Harrell was another pick like that. We didn't need D linemen in 2007 but boy did we ever in 2008. Now because of his injury problems it didn't quite work out the way he would have liked but he was trying to fill a need that would arise. Look at this years draft as well. Our two first round picks, a NT and an OLB. Now let's see...where do we have 30 year old players in the last year of their contracts? Yep! NT and OLB. If as a GM you are looking a couple years ahead at players who may retire or hit free agency you don't end up with a lot of glaring ''needs'' or overpaying to fill the ones that do arise because you already accounted for the situation and already have someone with a little experience set to fill it.

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PackersRS's picture

September 10, 2009 at 01:28 pm

Hey, Aaron, you should advertise the Clic for Cans more. It's back, and we'll win again: http://www.chunky.com/ClickForCansLanding.aspx

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Asshalo's picture

September 10, 2009 at 02:44 pm

Are FBs really that hot of commodities that you need to find their replacement three years in advance? Hell no. Why not just resign Hall and Kunn? Oh yeah, because Quinn Johnson is going to be the FB of all FBs. That's a big maybe, but who really cares? It's not worth keeping three FBs on the roster. The alternative to keeping a third FB could be Sutton, but it could be a lot of other things that make a lot more sense than a third FB (Anthony Smith anyone?).
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Maybe this post was an emotional reaction to a strongly held man crush on Quinn Johnson. "but he would be wise to step back, look around the league at teams like the Colts and the Steelers and watch how they have built their teams into annual contenders." This stretch made me laugh out loud. Really, Aaron, really? Contenders build their teams with three FBs? Brian may need to Sutt up about a certain RB but he's hit it right on with QJ.
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God, I can't wait for the season to start. We're really starved for stuff to complain about.

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PackerAaron's picture

September 10, 2009 at 02:53 pm

Asshalo, just because YOU, and indeed, other NFL teams, don't value FBs, doesn't mean McCarthy shares that view. In fact, I would say McCarthy uses FBs more creatively than any other coach I've seen. He uses them not only as battering rams, but as pass catchers, as tight ends, as special teams aces, etc. They are a valuable part of the team (hence, three of them are on the final roster) that Thompson and McCarthy value. You can dismiss it all you want, but it's pretty clear the team doesn't agree with your assessment.

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PackersRS's picture

September 10, 2009 at 03:00 pm

Let's face it. It came down to ST play. If it puts our ST play to a top 10, I say great move! If it improves our redzone percentage, I say great move! As raw as Quinn Johnson is, he's still a much better ST player than Sutton, and is a better blocker than the FBs we have.

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Ron La Canne's picture

September 10, 2009 at 03:11 pm

Jackson and Blackmon didn't practice today. They are both doubtful for Sunday! BJ did ilght practice work and is expected to play.
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Bret's slaming his old team again. This time it's the Jets. He is saying that he told Tannebaum(?) he was hurt and the Jets didn't report his injury. So now the Jets are going to fined by the league for violating League policy. Also, he's not sure he can play all 16 games this year. He's not 100%.

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VApackerfan's picture

September 10, 2009 at 04:02 pm

The bottom line is that FB's roles are much more simplistic than years past. Most teams do not draft FB's because they are easily accessible through FA. The timeline to "develop and build" a FB is much shorter too. That is why NFL teams have successfully converted college LB's to NFL FB's in a short time. Furthermore, the simple fact that there is no trade value for Kuhn and Hall shows that teams are not interested. To say we need to stock up on FB's before Kuhn and Hall's contracts expire is wrong. This applies to almost every other position in football except FB, punter, and kicker. I like Q. Johnson and I think he will be an asset, but you have to question the draft move, especially now that they have kept 3 FB's and have let an explosive runner go. Since we are all Packer fans, we know how frequent our RB's get injured and stay injured. Sure I know much of it comes down to special teams, but remember how horrible Jermichael Finley was in his block schemes? Now they are saying he's made tremendous strides.

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Donald's Designated Driver's picture

September 10, 2009 at 04:04 pm

"He uses them not only as battering rams, but as pass catchers, as tight ends, as special teams aces, etc."
---
And he is not afraid to dial up the -------- ----.

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Asshalo's picture

September 10, 2009 at 04:44 pm

I know the team doesn't agree. That's why I, VAPackerfan, and Carriveau criticize.
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MM definitely found creative ways to use the FBs last year but he wasn't necesarily effective, something you have been vocal about on multiple occassions. Many teams use their FBs for all the reasons above, but manage to do so with less than 3 on their roster. I doubt they kept three FBs for the reasons you say, so much as it was a ploy to get a trade for a waived player in Kunn. Now that that's failed (hopefully not just yet), he could be keeping 3 on the roster to front his failed attempt as a legitimate roster plan. An accusation like that is in the same ball-park as one that was brought up on CHNation not too long ago-- mgmt playing grant simply bc he got a big payday. It's like Oliver Stone's JFK, but with three FBs. I'm drafting up the script as we speak
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Ron La Canne, Favre saying he might not be able to play all 16 games, is just adding another log onto the fire of that team's collapse. If they're loosing and Favre is saying he's bruised, no one in that locker room is going to have any sympathy for him or Childress. Prediction: the team implodes, gets fourth in the division. Nearly every home game is blacked out (expect for GBs) and the team ends up moving to Mexico City or LA.

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Brian Carriveau's picture

September 10, 2009 at 05:15 pm

This blog post should have ended after the first sentence;)

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FAUJim's picture

September 10, 2009 at 05:50 pm

Awesome blog, great passion....I also like Jason Wilde's http://www.espnmadison.com/includes/blog/index.php?action=blog&blog_...

but I think you bring more passion, keep it up!

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Franklin Hillside's picture

September 10, 2009 at 06:36 pm

Lol, Brian. It's gotta feel good your opinions have spawned this much debate. Keep stirring the pot.

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Ron La Canne's picture

September 10, 2009 at 06:48 pm

Mexico City? LA? Same thing, they're both third world cities.

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aussiepacker's picture

September 10, 2009 at 07:25 pm

i think it is hard to use the term mistake just yet. lets wait to mid season and bring the topic back up then we should have a closer result.

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Mr. Optimistic's picture

September 10, 2009 at 07:52 pm

I sympathise with Brian. I don't think he's fallen into a mistake because Brian -- as far as i know -- is more or less an ordinary fan. His opinions have no more bearing on Packer moves than yours or mine or the butterfly flapping its wings in Madagascar. (Or am i wrong about that? Is Brian the eminence grise behind all those strange Packer player moves?)
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I'm not convinced at this point that Johnson is the missing piece of the puzzle or even the next halfway decent fullback. That remains to be seen. At the same time, i'm not worried that Sutton will be burning up the league in Carolina, either. Some people like Johnson. Others like Sutton. Still others like Lumpkin. Whatever the season has in store for the team, i somehow get the feeling that it's not going to hinge on 3rd string backs.

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Jersey Al's picture

September 10, 2009 at 08:17 pm

3 Fullback backfield = Tri-Pod formation?

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Oppy's picture

September 10, 2009 at 08:42 pm

two major areas of concern coming out of the '08 season:
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1) Special Teams play
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2) Short Yardage (3rd and short)
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What's the issue with keeping two PLAYERS who are excellent ST practitioners, and one other PLAYER who's a devastating run blocker?
It's practically a detail that all three are FBs. The reality is they are all football players with varying skill sets and they all have a great chance to improve parts of the program that proved to be critical areas of need last season.
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Lastly, speaking of the lack of FB trade value.. Some teams in the NFL only carry ONE fullback. One of those guys- god forbid- fractures his femur and suddenly the Packers have a pretty decent commodity in Hall or Kuhn.

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Boothie's picture

September 11, 2009 at 12:43 am

I hope that nobody is saying that Thompson is keeping 3 FBs on the roster cuz he doesn't want to admit errors... After all he DID cut Brohm after one year. I don't think Ted is really quaking in his boots worrying about what we fans think about him.

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Jayme's picture

September 11, 2009 at 10:49 am

PackersRS - Went to the Click for Cans website and found it to be quite hilarious that the Packers had 2,297 votes and the next closest team had only 585. Only two other teams even had more than 100 and the Raiders had only two clicks. Sad.

http://www.chunky.com/ClickForCansLanding.aspx

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Asshalo's picture

September 11, 2009 at 11:48 am

"I hope that nobody is saying that Thompson is keeping 3 FBs on the roster cuz he doesn’t want to admit errors."

GMs do it in many sports. It's the same reason Alfonso Soriano and Milton Bradley received playing time over reserve players that would have done far better. It's the same reason why Ryan Grant might have received too many carries last year (a little rumor that emerged on this blog).

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PackersRS's picture

September 11, 2009 at 12:38 pm

Jayme, last night, they were questioning if the Cowboys or the Steelers were America's team. GIVE ME A BREAK! Packer natior RULES! GO PACK GO! And let's keep voting, every day you can vote again!

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