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Railbird Central Podcast: Senior Bowl Prospect Talk

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Railbird Central Podcast: Senior Bowl Prospect Talk

Episode 356

Once again, we're joined on the show by "Pigskin" Paul Guillemette of PigskinPaul.com checking in live from the site of the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala. to talk about potential Packers prospects. We touch on any number of players such as Auburn's Dee Ford, Minnesota's Ra'Shede Hageman and many more.

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Brian Carriveau is the author of "It's Just a Game: Big League Drama in Small Town America" and editor of Cheesehead TV's "Pro Football Draft Preview." To contact Brian, email carriveau@uwalumni.com.

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Fan friendly comments only: off Comments (57) This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.

RC Packer Fan's picture

Another great show Brian. It was great listening to Paul. I would like to hear him couple of more times leading up to the draft. Perhaps around the combine and then just before the draft.

cLowNEY42's picture

Been reading/hearing a lot about this Jordan Zumwalt character... so I went and checked out some of his highlight tapes.

While I understand that highlight tapes are just that... HIGHLIGHT tapes, I can honestly say that I have never wanted any college player to be a Packer more than I want Jordan Zumwalt to be a Packer.

He is exactly what this defense needs.
Fluid
Powerful
Relentless
Smart
Instinctive
Excited

Get.
This.
Guy.

I'm also starting to love Christian Jones.

RunAndHyde's picture

Cow ..Zumwalt sucks. He gets blown up and disappears 9 times outta ten. Christian Jones on the other hand..is badass.

RunAndHyde's picture

I'll take CPryor first round n Trent Murphy 2nd if he goes that late.

Stroh's picture

I like Pryor a lot too, but would like to see the Packers go ILB or DL in the 1st. Guys in the front 7... I know safety is a big concern too, but ILB (Mosley) and Tuitt/Hageman (34 DE) would be my first picks. Look for a bargain Safety in FA or in the 2nd.

cLowNEY42's picture

Would love to see them go up and get Mosley.
For some reason Tuitt scares me.
I think Hageman's talents would be wasted in this defense (sorta like D.Jones)

RunAndHyde's picture

I'm with ya Mosley is one of the most well rounded players in the draft. One of those guys you know you can rely on....a young London Fletcher haha.

Stroh's picture

You don't want a prototypical 34 DE? One that can hold the point of attack on run downs and rush the QB from DT. Imagine Hageman (or Tuitt) along w/ Datone (or Daniels) as DT rushing w/ Matthews and Perry (or Neal possibly) rushing outside. Hageman (or Tuitt) would make our pass rush very dangerous! DL talent is never wasted, just ask NYG they are always drafting DL. Look what they controlled Brady and limited Rodgers.

cLowNEY42's picture

I agree with the premiss. Just not sure Tuitt or Hageman are the real deals.

If they are... by all means, do it.

I just have a feeling that Hageman is one of those guys (like D. Jones) who just isn't as good a player as his physique would indicate.

Same with Tuitt.

Stroh's picture

There you go writing off guys w/o giving them a chance to develop. 34 OLB and most NFL DL take a couple years. Can't judge till yr 3 if they were good picks or not.

cLowNEY42's picture

I get that.
But the fact of the matter is that by the end of the year Boyd (another rookie) was taking his snaps.

Jones's snaps consistently decreased as the season went along... while a 5th rounder saw his workload increase over the same time period.

Not.
A.
Good.
Sign.

Just face it - Jones will end up being a nice rotational guy on the DL. The Packers need better.

While rookies do, in fact, take time to develop... studs at least show early flashes here and there. Jones was pretty much invisible.

I'm not upset with the pick, though. The thinking was right. Sometimes guys' games just don't translate to the next level (ie. Perry, Hawk, Raji, Franklin, etc.).

RunAndHyde's picture

Yeah I hear ya Stroh Bucannon or Reynolds seem to be pretty good all around players, but Pryor is a statement maker. He could be our version of BDawk. I want someone on our team to be feared Damnit!

RunAndHyde's picture

And have you seen Murphy? He's huge. 6'6. Bats balls ...flies around. I could see him being a steal in the draft if he falls outta the first rd.

cLowNEY42's picture

as an OLB?
not sure he's athletic enough.

Stroh's picture

Well he certainly isn't playing ILB at 6'6. Kinda tall for an OLB but not unprecedented. I have heard really good things about him in regards to movement ability in space, which would be surprising at his height. Not a big fan of him at #21, possibly in the 2nd but I doubt he falls to 50's where the Packers are. Likely a borderline 1st or top 2nd pick.

RunAndHyde's picture

He only plays at around 255 260.....he could possibly put on weight and play on the end....possibly.

Stroh's picture

I doubt he could put on enough to play DE for the Packers. Sure he could and would to play 43 DE. I think he's very well suited to play 34 OLB right now. I wouldn't mind getting him at #53 tho. CBS has him as 44th prospect, so maybe its possible, but probably unlikely. And if he does the Cards would take him right before we pick. They need a true 34 OLB in a big way.

cLowNEY42's picture

I don't think he's got enough quick-twitch. Sort of a big. lumbering, powerful, hard working type. No "pop" or explosion.

Classic college stud who's just not athletic enough to be a difference maker at the pro level. He'll be on a roster for 10 years but never do anything of consequence.

4thand1's picture

U talkin about Hawk?

4thand1's picture

This is not a draft for safeties. Pick one up in FA. A lot of teams ahead of the Packers need offensive help. Except the dam Bears. Hopefully the Pack gets a stud on D that can produce right away.

cLowNEY42's picture

"Pick one up in FA. "

Good one.

4thand1's picture

Ford is tearing up the senior bowl.

RunAndHyde's picture

If you guys are cool with another average safety liked #42 fine, but I'm not. I want a playmaker. I want another Nick Collins! Get Pryor ...he will change our secondary.

cLowNEY42's picture

I'm going to assume they get comp picks in the 4th and 7th.

1 S Pryor Louisville
2 OLB Ford Auburn
3 TE Fiedorowicz Iowa
4 ILB Zumwalt UCLA or ILB Jones FSU
4 S Loston LSU
5 QB Fales San Jose State
6 DT Coleman California
7 CB Colvin Oklahoma
7 WR Hoffman BYU or Washington Missouri

Let Flynn go. Tolzein/Fales for a full offseason will suffice.
Resign Quarless
Do not resign Lattimore (or cut Jones)
Resign Raji and put him at NT (or sign one in FA)
Let Pickett walk
Resign Shields (franchise if necessary)
Don't resign Neal... he played fairly well but just can't trust him (health). Someone out of Ford/Perry/Mulumba will step up and Ford will be cheaper than Neal.
Resign Kuhn
Don't resign J.Jones (hate to do it - hope no other team wants him)
They'll let Starks go but I would resign Starks and release Franklin.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

cLowney, I don't follow the draft, so I can't comment on your picks, but I do mostly agree with the rest with 1 or 2 questions. I'll probably get jumped on for this, but I'm admitting, I honestly don't know?
Why resign Kuhn @ 2-3 mill a year. I think he's a Good, Intelligent FB, but why is he so much more valuable than James Jones, who I think has a number of good years left. He's pretty much a Blocking FB, Right?? I like John Kuhn, but I think JJ is more valuable. Is it that hard to get a Good Heady blocking FB?, & if the cap matters, can't we get one that can block just as good, a lot cheaper? Again, I like John Kuhn.
Also, I pretty much agree with you on Starks. I don't think we should let him go either, I would keep him before Kuhn as well.
All you guy's, Don't jump all over me. I'm asking an honest question. What am I missing??

cLowNEY42's picture

I'm assuming Kuhn will cost WAY less than 2-3 mil.
I'm also assuming that Jones would cost WAY more than 2-3 mil.

Can't drop $ on Jones when Cobb and Nelson have to be resigned... along with the fact that Boykin can do JJ's job.

While I'm not a huge Kuhn fan, I do understand that he's a master at the essential/unglamorous things... pass pro, special teams, locker room leadership... coach on the field stuff... glue-guy stuff.

Teams need that. Plus he's a vet. The Packers need as much veteran leadership as they can get.

4thand1's picture

Who is this? Did you eat cow? A post that actually made some sense. Now if you will only eat arlo and crap him out in the middle of nowhere without a computer, everyone will be happy.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

4thand1, Not sure if I got padded on the back, or hit in the head with a hammer?? I'm 66, I could probably use a little of both.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

cLowNEY, Well I get what your saying, but if it's $$$, why not let Raji move on. He isn't that Great. There has to be some Big Bruiser out of College that can fill his spot?? I'm for keeping as many Good Players as we can. I'd be trying to get rid of the over paid ones. Raji can be replaced if necessary. He's no Reggie White. I'm probably going to get killed here, but I want to keep JJ & Starks. I guess I'd let Raji go to do it. I don't buy the team leadership stuff. We have a team leader. One should be enough. We have the wrong guy's in the locker room if they need pumping up at this level. If possible, I don't want to change our offense at all. I guess we have to resign Shields, but again, I don't think he's the answer. We probably can't replace him, but I think he's too small. Can't believe that Corners & safety's today, are that hard to come by?? JMO

4thand1's picture

LMAO, no Tom , I was referring to cow.

4thand1's picture

A lot of the really good athletes at that size and speed play wr, that's were the big $$$ is. Unless you're a Revis or Sherman type. D backs end d backs usually because they can't catch.

Stroh's picture

Agree keep Kuhn for 1 or 1.5M. Jones is redundant. He's barely our 3rd best WR. Obviously Nelson and Cobb in that order, then Jones but he's barely ahead of Boykin. Let Jones walk. I wouldn't even bother to try to re-sign him unless he doesn't get any offers and can get him for the Vets min... I honestly don't think he'll have much interest in FA. But I'm also not going to give him a couple million when Boykin can do what he does a lot cheaper either!

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

Well, I disagree with your assessment of James Jones. I think he is better than what you are stating. I don't know what the market would be for him, but I think he's easily worth the 1.5 mill, you would give to Kuhn, maybe
2. I would find a FB at vets min.
You know, IMO, at some point, some GB Packers deserve another year or 2. DD was 1. I think we could have made room for him. He was still as good as anyone going over the middle, & he wanted to play. Gilbert Brown, may have been another. He turned down 2 better contracts to stay in GB. We could have found room for him for 1 more year. James Jones is another one of those Packers. He's too Valuable to let go yet. IMO. I could come up with at least a couple of others, I would trade or let go before James Jones. I've seen enough football in my day. I think I can judge when a player is pretty well washed up. JJ is a long way from that. I think it will be a Mistake to let him go. JMO

Stroh's picture

Driver shouldn't and IMO wouldn't have been a Packer in his last year. I think he was only given another year becuz he won dancing and the Packers didn't want another PR disaster similar to Favre. So they gave him a honored the last year of contract instead of getting the PR nightmare. The Packers promptly sat his ass on the bench were he did nothing for the 2.5M he as paid.

Jones is only marginally better than Boykin and he would be much more expensive. Save the money and let Jones walk. If he's even close to being as good as you seem to think he is he'll get an offer or more in FA and the Packers won't bother matching. Boykin has really large terrific hands, and tests the same as Jones athletically and just needs to gain a little more experience. Very little to distinguish them other than Jones being more experienced. At his age 3?, he'll soon lose the marginal speed he does have.

Like I said, IMO he's redundant.

cLowNEY42's picture

LVT - you lost all credibility regarding your assessment of receiver talent as soon as you made your comment about Driver.

That dude was WAAAAAAYYYYYYYY past done.

4thand1's picture

Kuhn should stay, the block against Peppers won the NFCN. He know's the offense inside and out. JJ's 2 drops in the SF game were disturbing. Just like the SB run. Basically he has one really good year, last year.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

I'm not disagreeing with your take on Boykin. I know he is a Good player. I like John Kuhn, but you can't possibly think that he is more valuable to GB than Jones. Like I said, there are other players on GB that are less Valuable than JJ. You know who they are?? In the draft, there is the thinking by most teams, of taking the Best player available. Why don't we use that approach when letting players go?? I could easily find a way to keep JJ. IMO he is still in the upper 25% of our
players. I'd be looking at the bottom 75%. JMO

4thand1's picture

You see cow, your last post is out of line. Why do you go out of your way to piss people off. It would be more appropriate to say , I disagree, DD should have rode off into the sunset.

cLowNEY42's picture

Sorry.
I was sort of joking.

4thand1's picture

Hey Tom, its nice to have another old fart in here. I'm pushing 60 myself. I go on other sports blogs and they end talking about xbox and FF.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

4thand1, I'm 66, but I get guessed about 50, & I still feel 30. Well, maybe 40. I saw The Glory Day's. I saw Bart, Paul, Jim, of coarse Vince, Willie, Herb, & as I said the other day, Travis Williams, who was The Best Of All Time. The FIB has NOTHING on Travis. He could have put him in his back pocket. I'm not just saying that!! I try to bring him up when ever possible. He's all but been forgotten. He deserves much more credit, than he ever got. In fact, he's never mentioned. I went to the LA Championship game in Milw, I believe that was 1967 (I Think). It was Laughable. Every LA kickoff you may as well have said, was an on side kick. That's how much Travis Williams was feared. We've never had anything close to him since.

4thand1's picture

Guys like him are freaks of nature, they are a once in a lifetime thing. Can you imagine posting on a blog in the 60's or 70's? If someone told me I could access anything in the world from my living room 45 years ago, I would have thought they were f-ing crazy.

dickishness's picture

Who/what is the FIB? Devin Hester?

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

dickishness, Yeah, & I'm sorry I said it that way. I had just drank a bottle of Champagne. He didn't deserve it. Again, I'm sorry I said that. If you Goggle "Youtube" & type in "Travis Williams Green Bay Packers", the 1st item is Travis talking about his life, & the 2ond, (1967) has 2 short clips of him. The 1st at 1 minute shows him running around end for a TD, & the 2ond at 1:15 shows one of his kickoff returns for a TD. If you read some of the comments, someone refers to him as The Best Returner Of All Times. I was at that 1967 La Championship Game. That was the game before the Ice Bowl. I can't believe, we were 11 pt. underdogs at home in that game??? That was a comment somewhere. I wish there were more GB clips of him.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

cLowNEY, My credibility wasn't on the line with my statement on DD. He wasn't the worst player on the team. There wasn't a fork in him. With losing Jennings, & Cobbs & Finleys injurys, you don't think we could have used him in spots?? Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I think he could have played a bit more, certainly not at his best. I also like John Kuhn, but if it comes down to keeping Kuhn or Jones, on my team, I want JJ. I know Kuhn is a Good FB, but so was William Henderson. He was easily replaced. Probably all of you guys follow the players more than I do. I know it's a business, but I'D like to think, that at some point GB, can give a little back to certain players. That was my point on DD. He was in Great Shape. He could have sat another year. I Respectfully disagree with all of you who want to cut JJ lose. JMO

cLowNEY42's picture

I think we've discussed Kuhn more than enough.
I really could not care less whether or not he's on the team next year. Any arguments for or against him are valid.

As for Jones - I agree with you that he can still play. I'd love for him to be back. But it's business. Gotta spread $ over all position groups. Can't have too much $ put into the WR's... which is exactly what would happen if the Pack paid JJ market value and then went and extended Cobb and Nelson.

JJ's $ is needed elsewhere on the roster.

Oh - and Driver was just bad his last year with the Pack. He couldn't play anymore. The fact that The Packers didn't even considering contacting him after losing Jennings to FA and Jones and Cobb to injuries speaks volumes.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

cLowNEY, You're probably right on DD. I
couldn't understand why he wasn't used more his last year, although we really didn't need him. I guess I can't accept the premise that he was that bad. He looked to be in better shape than all the other receivers.
I disagree that JJ's $$$ is needed elsewhere. That money is elsewhere on the team, IMO. My post before this one, pretty much sums up my feelings on who to keep & who to let go. Am I right? I think so, but what difference does it make. TT & MM don't call me that often.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

cLowNEY, After reading your last comment, now I don't know where I stand?? Was I Right?? or Wrong??

4thand1's picture

Both. Its your opinion. He may have contributed. WTF he knows the offense and if he stayed in shape, why not? At one point the Pack had 1 starting receiver. Then Boykin stepped.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

4thand1, I know he made a Great Block that helped win the NFC North. Every FB in the league should be capable of making that block, or they should be playing some where else. The one Pass to JJ was catchable, but it was low. I can't remember the other one. With the QB situation the way it was this year, I can't blame JJ for a couple of missed catch's that weren't on the money. In all Honesty ARod was not his throwing best in that game. The final play was Great, but in Cobb's words, he pretty much said his career was on the line had he dropped it. Well, not exactly that, but you know what I mean. I would have caught that ball today yet. There is No Reason to lose JJ, Finley if healthy, or Starks. IMO HAWK, Kuhn, & Raji are Expendable along with a few others, & you won't have to worry about signing Cobb or Nelson, unless their both talking to GJ 3 nights a week, in which case, we won't sign them anyway. I'd say the same about JJ. I admit it, I'm a James Jones fan. I don't want to see him get away. I also don't want to see Starks get away, because I think he's close to being a Great running back. You guy's follow it more than I do. Maybe I don't know what the Hell I'm talking about. I just think I know a Good Player, & a Bad Player when I see one. JMO

4thand1's picture

The bottom line is we don't know what the Packers will do. I don't know the reason Raji went downhill. You'd think being a FA he would have made some big plays. That alone says something, let him go. Keep Starks if they can. Let JJ test the market again. He saw what happened to Jennings with no QB. He doesn't want to end apologizing to him for 5 minutes after a game. But I see TT going with younger guys and if they can land a safety with money saved, they should it. Then draft ILBers and a TE. Thanks to the rookie caps in the new CBA, you'll see a lot of teams going younger.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

4thand1, I don't disagree with anything you've said. My only question would be with the TE position. When does anyone find out what Finleys condition is?? Will we know before the draft if he's 100%??, or have we already cut him loose??

4thand1's picture

Finley has already stated that's he's 99.9% ready to play. He still hasn't been evaluated by GB drs. though. How effective will he be? I'm thinking footsteps and dropped passes. Hell, he could have died on the field.

LAS VEGAS-TOM's picture

4thand 1, Thanks for the help the other day. I respect everyone's opinions on this post, yes cLowNEY, yours too. I would hope everyone would respect mine, but if not, that's ok with me. I'm a Big Boy, I can handle it. Ok, here goes. Everyone knows my feelings on Hawk & Findley. I wanted to trade both last year, to try to keep GJ for 1 year. In hindsight, you can make a case for or against that. It wouldn't have made a difference as things turned out. IMO, at 30 GJ was our Best receiver. I'm sure I'll get flack on that. Findley hasn't proved to me yet, that he can catch a ball in traffic, but I've now changed my mind on him. If possible, I'd like to keep him, if he's 100% & given a clean bill of health. I think he's 26 or 27, & I'm willing to give him another year or 2, but not at $8 mill. Here's what I want to do. Someone tell me if this is possible? I would cut loose Raji, Kuhn, & Trade Hawk, if someone will take him. Tell me if that's enough $$$ to keep JJ, Starks, & Findley if healthy.
As far as the draft goes, I don't know any where's near what the rest of you know about players. What I think I know is this. I don't think we can draft an immediate Safety or Corner. The last one we got was Mckensie, & he was our 3rd corner pick that year. We lucked out on him. I would not trade up in the draft to get one. IMO, the only way to know what we're getting is to buy a Safety & Corner. According to what Stroh & others said about our cap money, there is enough there to get a safety & corner if any are available. The only way I would move up in the draft is for a DE, if one was there. He'd have to be better than Jamal Renoylds.
As far as Cobb & Nelson are concerned, some of you have called them elite. Not sure I would use that word, but I think they are both Great Receivers, & I would like to retain both if possible. If they both want $10 Mill a year, they can both leave. Don't get me wrong, I think Cobb & Jordy are 2 of our Best Players, but I also think WR'S are fairly easy to replace. Every team in the league has Great Receivers. Chicago has 2, Detroit has 2, one elite for sure, & Minn has at least 1. Up & down the league there are Great Receivers. You need an Arm to get them the ball. I think you would all agree that AR, Cobb, & Jordy compliment one another. That's usually how it works with Good Receivers. I would draft as many LB's, Big Bodies, DE's, & Safety's & Corners in that order. I think our corners are too small, & our safety's are no good. We will have to buy those positions. IMO, our Biggest search in the draft should be for LB's, especially one for the middle. I'd like another DE too. If I'm losing my mind, tell me. It's always best if you can catch something early.

4thand1's picture

The best way to lose your mind is to keep posting here. You made a lot of valid points. The one thing everyone agrees on is ILB and safety. Last year it was the running game and look how that turned out.

Al Dante's picture

The Pack can't fix everything in one draft and there is a hell of lot of sports writers I agree with that say, the Packers have a lot of needs.
I'm one of these people that think you fix one thing and fix it right, and if you can do two that's extra gravy.
I say you draft enough Safeties to come in and make a difference. Pass defense was horrid. Fix it.
We have enough running backs to let Kuhn go and or Franklin. Franklin needs to prove something in pre season or I say adios.

I don't see enough picks left to do anything about the pass rush, but possibly linebacking?
You won't get stellar linebackers in the late rounds but possibly so relief guys?

The TKstinator's picture

GB was tied for 8th in the league in sacks with 44. Who were they tied with? Seattle.

But I WILL agree that the pass rush SEEMED less than impressive much of the time.

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