Post-Draft Packers Position Analysis: Defensive Line
They took the rap for poor run defense but was it really their fault?
By KenLass
Want to know how the Green Bay Packers defensive line fared against the run in 2019? Just look at the numbers.
No, wait. On second thought, don't. I did......and I'm still depressed.......and confused. Didn't this team go 13-3? Weren't they one win shy of the Super Bowl? How bad could it have been?
Apparently pretty doggone bad. Allow me to hit a few of the lowlights for you. According to regular season rankings compiled by Football Outsiders, overall the Packers defensive line ranked 31st out of 32 teams against the run in 2019. Opposing ball carriers gained an average of 4.87 yards per carry against them. Only four teams did worse.
Particularly bothersome was when opponents faced a third or fourth down with two yards or less to go.....the big boy downs. Opponents either picked up the first down or scored a touchdown 71% of the time on those downs, ranking the Packers 27th in those situations. On the same type of downs, the Packers stopped the opposition for no gain or for a loss just 13% of the time, ranking 31st. Only the three-win Detroit Lions were worse.
Given stats like that, how did this team manage to win 13 games and a playoff game? One reason is a much more respectable showing against the pass. The Packers ranked 12th in pass rush with a sack percentage of 7.5%. Green Bay was 15th in total sacks. Defensive linemen accounted for 7.5 of the team's 41 sacks, but deserve at least some credit for many of the others because of a steady push and flush up the middle.
Another reason is timely turnovers. In this area the players behind the D-line probably made them look a little better than they really were. The Packers generated 29 takeaways, but defensive linemen accounted for just 2 of the team's 12 recovered fumbles, just one of their 17 interceptions and just 12 of their 94 hits on the quarterback. The D-line made a mere 13 of the defense's 63 tackles for loss. Now, you can make the argument that the primary task of the D-line is to eat blockers to allow those next level guys to create the turnovers, but even by that standard those numbers are low.
It is clear this unit needs to be better, but any improvement won't come from the 2020 draft. Not a single D-lineman was taken. Green Bay did add one player off waivers and signed two free agents off the street. Let's take a look at the individual players.
KENNY CLARK 6'3", 314 lbs.
The 2016 first round draft choice is the unquestioned leader of the unit, showing steady improvement during each of his four years, culminating with his first Pro Bowl selection in 2019. Clark started all 16 games for the first time and set career highs for tackles, and tackles for loss, while equaling his career best in sacks with 6. Because of the Packers lack of depth at the position Clark played a whopping 869 snaps. That was 149 more than he had ever played in a season before. As a result his effectiveness appeared to wane at times late in games. Clark's current contract expires after the 2020 season and getting him extended is and should be a top priority before the season begins. If he were to hit free agency the Packers almost surely would be outbid.
DEAN LOWRY 6'6", 296 lbs.
Lowry is one of those try hard guys you love to like and pull for, but objectively you'd have to say his play declined in 2019. For the first time in his 4 years with the Pack, Lowry failed to register a sack and his totals went down in tackles for loss and quarterback hits. This despite starting in all 16 games. Last July the Packers resigned Lowry to a three year, $20 million contract, so he is likely to be back, and that's not a bad thing. Ideally he should be a second tier rotational guy, but unless there is more help on the way, it looks like the Northwestern product will be starting again in 2020.
TYLER LANCASTER 6'3", 313 lbs.
Signed as a UDFA out of Northwestern in 2018, Lancaster started five games over the nose his rookie season, then shifted to defensive end and started 10 games in 2019. He is a feel good story but his ceiling appears to be low. He has trouble shedding blocks and tends to get washed out against the run. Despite considerable playing time he just doesn't make a lot of plays. He was in on just 30 tackles, registered 1.5 sacks and two tackles for loss. He did force and recover his first fumble as a pro. He figures to have to battle for his starting job this fall and perhaps even his roster spot.
KINGSLEY KEKE 6'3", 288 lbs.
The Texas A&M product was considered a high value when the Packers selected him in the 5th round of the 2019 draft. As a rookie he was a rotational player, appearing in 14 games and playing just 96 snaps. He flashed a quick first move and some ability to muscle and swim through blockers. In contrast to Lancaster, Keke's ceiling seems to be higher and he is the candidate most likely to unseat one of the starters in 2020, barring any new additions. The Packers desperately need him to take the next step.
MONTRAVIOUS ADAMS 6'4", 304 lbs.
This is the mystery man. Adams was an absolute beast at Auburn and a star in the rugged Southeastern Conference. The Packers took him in the third round of the 2017 draft and fully expected him to start on their D-line for years. But his rookie year was marred by injury, and despite everything you'd want in terms of athleticism and physique, the light just has not come on. In 187 snaps (25 fewer than the previous year) he had no sacks, was in on just 11 tackles with zero tackles for loss or quarterback hits. His failure to develop is killing this unit. Adams is entering the final year of his rookie contract and this is likely his last chance.
WILLINGTON PREVILON 6'5, 287lbs.
Signed as a UDFA following the 2020 draft, Previlon started 18 games for Rutgers, including all 12 during his senior year. He was honorable mention All Big Ten in 2019 and was voted the team's Most Valuable Player. 4 sacks and 12 tackles for loss as a senior. Needs to put on some weight and develop a wider variety of moves, but hey, as thin as this group is, he has a decent shot to make the practice squad if not the game day roster.
GERALD WILLIS 6'4", 300 lbs.
Signed by the Baltimore Ravens as a UDFA in 2019. Cut after the preseason, signed to the Miami Dolphins practice squad. Acttivated in November, sustained a season-ending injury in December. Appeared in two games registering two tackles. Claimed off waivers by the Packers on April 21st. Had an impressive senior year at the University of Miami, being named second team all ACC. He led the nation's defensive tackles in TFL's with 18. Could be a pleasant surprise if healthy.
TREYVON HESTER 6'2", 304 lbs.
The latest attempt to bolster this group in a cost effective way came just days ago on May 1st with the signing of Hester, a four year veteran out of Toledo who will be trying to stick with his 4th team. Hester was drafted by the Raiders in the 7th round in 2017. He has appeared in 41 games with two starts during stints with the Raiders, Eagles and Redskins. He has 40 tackles, two sacks and one forced fumble and recovery.
SUMMARY:
There is the real sense that this unit is not yet complete. I will be surprised if Green Bay does not add an established veteran by season's start, whenever that may be. The fan favorite seems to be Damon "Snacks" Harrison, the massive eight year veteran who played in Detroit last year. But I can't help wondering why he has remained unsigned for this long. Makes me suspicious that Snacks is on the decline. Another option is 13 year veteran Brandon Mebane who played the last 4 years with the Chargers..
It should be pointed out that occasionally the Packers will walk Zadarious Smith up to start a play from a DL position and obviously that makes the unit far more viable. But Z-man makes his living rushing from the edge and so I won't consider him as part of this unit.
Overall this group needs help and should be considered one of the team's weaknesses. They desperately need Keke and one of the other newcomers to develop so the unit can build around Kenny Clark, who can't continue to play over 800 snaps. The Packers won 13 games and a playoff game relying on turnovers and sacks to compensate for a leaky run defense. I seriously doubt they can get away with that again in 2020.
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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
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Comments (59)
ShooterMcGee
May 03, 2020 at 06:37 pm
31st in the League and no free agents signed nor any drafted. I don't know how the problem is supposed to be fixed when no significant additions were made. Twice a year we will face Dalvin Cook, David Montgomery, and now D'Andre Swift. San Francisco showed the way to beat our defense and surely other teams will try to emulate them, especially our division foes. Bend but don't break is not a long term solution.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 06:49 pm
SF didn't reveal a hidden truth that the Packers had a bad run defense in game 18. It was well known before that point. It's just that 14 times a team tried to beat the Packers on the ground and failed.
The not-so-hidden truth was stated well by Pettine. It's easier to fly to Lombardi than run to one.
dobber
May 04, 2020 at 09:32 am
It's one thing to have a weakness...it's another thing for teams to have the ability to exploit it.
Leatherhead
May 04, 2020 at 04:17 pm
Yeah, but only SF was able to exploit the weakness for points. Philly, too, I guess. Pretty much everybody else couldn’t. Most of our opponents couldn’t get past 16.
There’s a reason for that. I’m sure the turnovers and the red zone performance helps skew things but I think you can give up a lot of rushing yards outside the red zone without it costing points..
jannesbjornson
May 04, 2020 at 06:20 pm
Well, they faced five -six rookie/ backup QBs and Mahomes was out for K.C. Adjust the curve for those stats.
Leatherhead
May 04, 2020 at 06:38 pm
I think pretty much every team in the league gets to play against rookies and backups. You have to play who shows up on your schedule. We did OK against Wilson in the playoffs. We did pretty good on the road against Prescott. Minnesota played against KC without Mahomes....what happened?
TheVOR
May 04, 2020 at 03:42 pm
Oh come on Dude! You know.... The, ... 2nd... 3rd-ish year jump of players that haven't demonstrated they should be in the NFL more less in a Packers uniform IS EXPECTED...
Think of it like this, we didn't draft a significant ILB in the last 2 drafts because this stuff just happens, we'll be fine? I mean, ... Oren Burks is really good or we wouldn't have drafted him in the 3rd round,... Um,... I mean forget that he's injured all the time, and doesn't have an NFL body, he's the guy we're looking at... I think... um... to make that dreaded 3rd year jump to legitimate NFL animal ILB starter!!!!
Same with Keke and Adams on that depth chart.. Dude,... You just have to "believe"...
It's kind of like Leprechauns and Rainbows, or Unicorns dude... You just have to believe there's a plan, and a JUMP coming... You know, the unicorn jumps over the rainbow, and skewers the Leprechaun who's guarding the pot of gold, and everything is good!!!
Look at these names man.. I Mean Keke, Adams, Burks??? We're good right??
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 06:40 pm
It's really weird that the Packers did practically nothing to fix the glaring weakness in defending the run at the same time they made a huge investment in the run offense. If it is worth using day 2 of the draft to help the run offense, isn't it important they can defend the run as well?
It would seem not so much. Not only has their DC said so directly, they backed that up with their choices in free agency and the draft. Of course, years of analytics backs up that passing defense is far more important. Which makes that less of a head-scratcher than what they did on offense.
I do like Keke's chances of improving. Maybe one of the long shots they signed will pan out.. And there is no reason they cannot add a rotational run stuffer later on. Those guys are not in high demand.
Roadrunner23
May 03, 2020 at 07:15 pm
Here’s the thing about the Packers investing in a bullish running back and a blocking H back instead of a D Lineman. D linemen take about 3 years to fully develop, running backs can contribute big year one.
As bad as the run defense was last season the 3 and out offense was just as bad sustaining drives. So.....
**if you play sound ball control offense pounding defenses with lightning (Jones) and thunder (Dillan) it keeps the defense fresh and more importantly off the field!
The Packers defense was gassed almost every game last season because they were on the field way too much.
Keep the fat boys on the d-line fresh and off the field awhile and watch how much they improve.
That is all...
dobber
May 03, 2020 at 07:59 pm
"The Packers defense was gassed almost every game last season because they were on the field way too much."
If you mean TOP, remember that the Packers were 6th best in the league in TOP.
But if you look at yards surrendered per drive, the Packers were markedly middle of the pack AND...as a team...they didn't play a lot of reserves up front. So it could just be total snaps played figuring into fatigue?
Coldworld
May 04, 2020 at 09:50 am
My recollection is that the D suffered from the schizophrenic offense. We would rack up points in some quarters and then have quarters where the D barely got off the field. Right or wrong, that’s not what a Pettine style of fast aggressive D is designed for. It also mean game stats have the effect of masking the problem as they average the good and bad spells.
Looking at it from May 2020, Pettine’s D and the apparently coming LaFleur offense seem a better fit conceptually. It could be that that is why LaFleur wanted to keep the Pettine approach.
jannesbjornson
May 04, 2020 at 12:07 pm
They don't have the talent to switch defensive schemes short-term. Pettine will have part of this season to straighten out the run fits. Or ?? A power running game is another chip to plug in the 3rd and shorts to way-lay the 3 and outs from the ineffective short passing game. Deguara will help here with his releases off the line or backfield. He and Dillon can probably run the wheel routes Jones saw and provide a bigger target for Rodgers as he just missed a few of these to Jones who just didn't have the reach to bring the ball in.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 08:04 pm
"**if you play sound ball control offense pounding defenses with lightning (Jones) and thunder (Dillan) it keeps the defense fresh and more importantly off the field!"
It also makes a pre-snap penalty or hold more easy to derail a drive.
"The Packers defense was gassed almost every game last season because they were on the field way too much."
The Packers were 6th in Time of Possession last season. For the first time in a long time, the defense was consistent in their ability to prevent handing over a late lead to the opposition.
dobber
May 03, 2020 at 08:25 pm
""**if you play sound ball control offense pounding defenses with lightning (Jones) and thunder (Dillan) it keeps the defense fresh and more importantly off the field!"
It also makes a pre-snap penalty or hold more easy to derail a drive."
To build on that...this is a style of football that is intolerant of mistakes of any kind. You point to penalties...big things like turnovers, less obvious things like mismanaging timeouts, etc. This team rode the razor's edge in 2019 and made out like bandits. Unless this really turns out to be a dominant run game, this kind of football embraces that narrow margin even moreso.
HankScorpio
May 03, 2020 at 11:09 pm
" ...this is a style of football that is intolerant of mistakes of any kind."
Great turn of a phrase. It really is that.
I want a team that can tolerate mistakes and still win.
Coldworld
May 04, 2020 at 08:42 am
Mistakes happen. Good teams overcome them. Moreover, they happen on both sides of the ball.
This argument is something of a canard in that the run first is anticipated to reduce the most costly ones.
I can’t help reading this type of lament and feeling it is really pining for the MM years. That wasn’t working any more. I think in part due to the roster blight of the late TT period and in part because everyone knew how it was going to run. Jones’s individual elusiveness somewhat obscured that but not totally.
LaFleur’s system is capable In other hands of being effective. Run first can result in high scoring and big plays, the assumption that we are going to grind the ball up the gut constantly misses the point.
dobber
May 04, 2020 at 10:29 am
I don't quite get the MM thing...that's quite a poke around these parts! ;)
This is where you can take the Mike Pettine philosophy and play it against the Packers: it's much harder to run your way to a SB than it is to pass your way to the SB. Run-first does not necessarily mean run-heavy. Even in 2019, the Packers were middle of the pack in run pct and ran the ball less than many of the MM teams between 2008 and 2016. So the question becomes, is the LaF's goal to be run-first or run-heavy?
While it's hard to poke at a team that won 13 games in 2019, their record in 1-score games (6-1) is ripe for regression. Sustaining drives is hard and the league is geared toward big plays and scoring 7s. There's a lot to like about effective run-action/play-action football, and this is probably the best way to open things up for a receiving group that feels shy on playmakers. But the heavier you go in the run game, the better you need to be in execution and the less forgiving game flow will be to errors on both sides of the ball. The more patient your offense needs to be. The games shorten. Possessions become more limited. Outcomes can pivot more on a single big play on either side of the ball for either team.
I love Badger football, but this isn't going to be Badger football north. The NFL has--by and large--left that behind. But the observations on style and game flow posited here are not new ones.
Coldworld
May 04, 2020 at 11:16 am
I think the difference here is that I don’t see the 49er model as a run to the Super Bowl beast. There is a difference between a ground and pound philosophy and what they do.
The objective Is to be able to establish a ground game inside and out and use that and other elements to open the pass. The pass too must be credible, but it is just as likely not to be a WR as recipient and shouldn’t be predictable by formation.
It has worked fairly well thus far with the 49ers despite being handicapped at QB limiting facets of the ideal. In addition they have of late been putting a lot of emphasis on improving at receiver to counter that. It is still not finished I suspect, but finding a really good QB is of course tough.
Rodgers could thrive under that regime. He would, in my view, make them a lot better and make their scheme more effective at the same time. If LaFleur’s vision and Gute’s talent appraisal and gathering come to get her, Rodgers could quickly make us better simply because if the delta at the key position outweighing that at others.
That is asking a lot of a draft and other acquisition options over this year and last, particularly given that the cupboard was bare and pipelines of talent empty. It’s also putting a lot of faith in LaFleur in terms of his vision and capability as a Head Coach.
The player mix is changing on both sides of the ball, but likely isn‘t complete. Can Rodgers power this with what we have? To be honest, I think that given the coach and where we were with the roster, thus offers a possibly more credible path IF he buys in and LaFleur us the real deal.
jannesbjornson
May 04, 2020 at 12:13 pm
LaFleur brings Motion back into the offense, not just the static reads and hoping for a 1:1 to work out. 40-45% run ratio is sufficient to establish play action and put pressure on the LBs, especially Mack, Barr and Bosa. Beat down on the Edge people all day and set up CBs to make the stop against the RBs.
Leatherhead
May 04, 2020 at 10:13 am
How does a pre-snap penalty derail a drive more than an incomplete pass or a sack?
If it’s second and six, and we take a procedure penalty, it’s second and eleven. If we throw an incompletion on second and six, it’s third and six. If we take a sack, it’s third and fourteen.
This kind of football is designed to not make big mistakes. Keep your opponent under 20. Win the turnover battle. If you do that, the little mistakes aren’t as costly.
If you drop back 34 times, you get sacked twice and hit some more. By percentage, you’ll complete 22. So that’s 22 positive plays and 12 negative plays, not counting interceptions or strip sacks. If you run it 34 times, you’re probably not going to have 12 negative plays.
You get about 10 real possessions in a game. How many negative plays does it take to kill a drive?
HankScorpio
May 04, 2020 at 10:09 pm
"How does a pre-snap penalty derail a drive more than an incomplete pass or a sack?"
It doesn't. That's why you need playmakers that can get open. Been saying that for about 2 years now. I'm almost as big of a broken record on that as you are the other way.
Leatherhead
May 04, 2020 at 11:16 pm
Running teams can be big scoring teams. SF scored 37 on us while throwing 10 passes.
HankScorpio
May 05, 2020 at 05:43 am
And this is why I generally avoid reading or responding to your comments.
Thanks for validating that choice.
Since'61
May 04, 2020 at 06:50 pm
Exactly Hank. The Packers average TOP was 30:21 minutes per game. The defense was gassed because they could not stop the run especially on 3rd and 4th and short yardage. That kept them on the field and pounded by even more running plays.
It’s not just a matter of the DL is also a matter of poor tackling in many plays. Thanks, Since ‘61
HankScorpio
May 04, 2020 at 10:12 pm
You're preaching to the choice about bad tackling.
CoachDino
May 05, 2020 at 12:46 am
Good point - The offense really hurt the defense as far as all the 3 and outs. Those guys were fatigued to a point at times. Kinda goes to the need for DL depth. Issue is the starters at the ends should be the rotational guys and not the starters.
Would love to see break out years for Burks, Jackson and Adams but I just don't see it. Injuries are a big part of the lack of development - I get that but all three of them just look lost or you just don't notice them.
There's so much as fans we don't know and I hear very little inside info on the status and development at practice of players. It's always a bit of a mystery so - crossin fingers that one of the three can contribute.
TarynsEyes
May 03, 2020 at 07:37 pm
"On the same type of downs, the Packers stopped the opposition for no gain or for a loss just 13% of the time, ranking 31st. Only the three-win Detroit Lions were worse."
And luckily, they were able to pull off, not one, but two FG walk=off wins against Detroit. Speaks volumes to how good this team wasn't and how lucky they were. No forgetting, IIRC, they NEVER had a lead in either game.
"The Packers won 13 games and a playoff game relying on turnovers and sacks to compensate for a leaky run defense. I seriously doubt they can get away with that again in 2020."
As do I, as do I.
"
Leatherhead
May 04, 2020 at 11:18 pm
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
canadapacker
May 03, 2020 at 09:45 pm
The biggest problem with the run defense was not the Dline. Martinez was a tackling maching 10 yards downfield. He seldom filled the hole and stuffed the run. The Dbacks missed a lot of tackles on the outside. If you cant tackle you cant defend the run or swing passes. I think that the second year players really need to step up and the fact that we let Martinez go is actually good - I wished that we kept Fackrell but he was to unpredictable but at least had some big plays and did what he needed as a situational player. I also think that the Dline will have a big year - Adams, Lowery, Clark and Keke - will rotate through big time. Pettine needs to coach up the interior middle of the D better and now that Martinez is not gobbling up all of those snaps it will help.
Guam
May 04, 2020 at 08:04 am
I am not a big Martinez fan and believe the NY Giants grossly overpaid for him. That said, I also don't believe he was our biggest run defense problem. In a 3-4 defense, the D-line is supposed to keep the linebackers clean so they can run to the ball carrier. Far too often, Martinez was fending off guards or the center to try to make tackles. The D-line failed in their responsibilities in too many games last year and Martinez was left in the unenviable position of trying to make tackles with a 300 pound O-lineman attached to him.
I am deeply concerned with our D-line and I expect to see many teams try to run the ball down the Packer's throats this season. Either Pettine is going to have to modify his strategy or we need to add a serious run stuffer before the season starts.
Lancaster should not be a starting DE and M. Adams was almost completely ineffective last year. The Packers need more than Keke to step up - they also need reinforcements.
Thegreatreynoldo
May 03, 2020 at 09:46 pm
Announcement: I am going to defend Gute!
I didn't like the defensive linemen in the 2020 draft after Derrick Brown and Kinlaw (and Chase Young and some edge guys which we don't need). Sorry, but I couldn't work up any interest in using pick 30 or 62 on Madabuike, Gallimore, Blacklock, Davison, or Taylor. I had some interest in Raekwon Davis and Epenesa, but felt they weren't good fits. I did have some interest in Leki Fotu at 94 even though he isn't really a two-gapping, reactive 3-4 NT, but would have taken Lucas Niang so I can't complain.
Handsback
May 03, 2020 at 09:52 pm
No excuse, but I read that Mt. Adams played through a pretty serious injury (happened in the 2nd game) this past season, where he should have gone on IR but continue playing. Of all the guys not named Clark...he's the only one with size and talent.
Two years of being injured, can he contribute or will he always be a walking injury. Besides...the Packers need more than what is listed even with Adams healthy.
canadapacker
May 03, 2020 at 10:10 pm
As I said Keke will step up in his second year and Lowery will return to form - should be a good rotation with Adams healthy. I agree we will not win the same number of games next season as this season - but think that we will win 10 games given the teams that we are scheduled - Carolina Atlanta Jacksonville Phillie at Lambeau as well as sweeping the Bears and Lions - there is 8 games there.
Guam
May 04, 2020 at 08:08 am
First I have heard that Adams was injured. Do you have a reference to the article or more details?
dobber
May 04, 2020 at 09:31 am
If you follow his snaps (remembering he was hurt in week 2), they're pretty consistent up 'til week 10...then he falls off to just a handfull per game, but maintained his ST snaps. Something else happened in the player rotation at that point to keep him off the field.
Coldworld
May 04, 2020 at 11:21 am
He had a shoulder injury early I believe, unless there was a recurrence, the timeline on that seems to be implausible. That said, there are some injuries that don’t prevent one doing certain things but do impact play at ones position. Skeptical, but if there is something tangible out there That could change.
Coldworld
May 04, 2020 at 11:29 am
Duplicate deleted
PatrickGB
May 04, 2020 at 12:17 pm
I did not know that he was injured. Yet I do know that he is not one of the “big guys” and that plus the injury made him a non factor in games where other teams ran on us. I am not a coach, and don’t know the ins and outs of NFL defense but it seems to me that a bigger fella should be in the game on early downs.
flackcatcher
May 04, 2020 at 04:00 pm
Told by AFC front office guy shoulder in ST and played with a quad in preseason. But not on injury report at all season. (Context was a conversation about how the military treats injury in training and combat vs sport teams the mental aspects etc.)
jeremyjjbrown
May 03, 2020 at 11:16 pm
I couldn't have been the only one surprised when the Packers gave Lowry all of that money.
He's from Northwestern so I know he's smart enough to be ashamed of how he played after getting a huge payday.
Leatherhead
May 04, 2020 at 10:25 am
Wow. Played in every game. 9th in tackles. Batted down 3 passes and intercepted one and altered many more. Played a lot of snaps on defense and special teams as does a lot of things to help the Smiths that you apparently didn’t notice.
This was a good signing by Gutekunst. Guys like Lowry help you win games in a lot of ways that don’t show up in the box score. We had. Top ten defense last year and he was part of the reason why.
Dzehren
May 03, 2020 at 11:21 pm
GB plays 2 down lineman on roughly 65% of the plays. Kinglsey Keke is an ascending player . Gary &Zadarious also play with a hand I the dirt. Draft and develop. .Willis and Hester bring addd competition. Wait until training camp.
jannesbjornson
May 04, 2020 at 12:29 pm
The free agent talent pool is down to bare bones. They have One solid guy on the D line, the rest are 50/50 players. Missed out on a fair priced group of big guys in March. Taylor is still onboard so may they try a players swap? Willis could be a wild card guy to show something or end up on the street again?
flackcatcher
May 04, 2020 at 08:23 pm
Packers, have as a matter of practice let second contract veterans their own play out their contract and not resign. Signing a third with this team under Ted and now Gute is unusual. Not unknown, but unusual. (I can only come up with a couple without searching online...)
NickPerry
May 04, 2020 at 04:57 am
How many times have we heard that Pettine is far more concerned with defending the pass over defending the run. Pettines favorite line...The passing game will get you beat a lot faster than the running game, you MUST be able to defend the pass in this league." Clearly what happened in the NFCCG can't continue, but Pettine isn't going to change now. This will be Pettines last year to get this defense to the Top 10.
Like TGR there weren't many impressive D-Linemen in this draft. Matter of fact it was said several times this was a terrible draft if a team needed D-Line help. I like Kingsley Keke quite a bit, a year 2 jump from him could help a lot. So can the addition of Kirksey and ANY jump from Burks, Summers, or Bolton. I like Summers but rarely hear his name mentioned when discussing the ILB position. A jump from Keke and any of the OLB could go a long way in improving this defense.
I'm one of those who is still hoping for a Snacks Harrison signing. Either Snacks or someone else who gets cut in the next few months. Gutes not done, not yet. It just remains to be seen WHO Gute will bring in. I'm also hoping for a Tyler Gabriel type signing or a Kenny Stills type trade. Both of those guys could come in a help.
PeteK
May 04, 2020 at 08:30 am
I would also like those players. Gabriel would be cheap and I know Snacks received a 12 mill guaranteed money so he might settle for an incentive based contract similar to Funchess'. However, at the least, we should be able to salvage at least a solid rotational player out of that heap.
jannesbjornson
May 04, 2020 at 12:33 pm
Gabriel is fragile, an IR candidate.
dobber
May 04, 2020 at 10:18 pm
He missed time last season, but played in all 16 games the two seasons prior.
Coldworld
May 04, 2020 at 09:39 am
Hester has been decent against the run. An upgrade as a run defender with some experience. Could fill a role. Willis was a high draft pick on talent who plummeted due to non football questions despite some believing he was passed them by his final year, he actually could bring some talent uplift if his head is on properly. Just got caught up in the numbers game.
Internally, if Adams was indeed injured, I’d possibly revise writing him off. Hard to play these positions if physically hindered. That said, first I have heard of it.
Keke came out with the knock that he needed to boost upper body strength. He had also lost 15 pounds for the draft. I hear he may be adding that back.
A true runstuffer puts up few sacks and often not that many tackles. Job is primarily to contain. My problem is that Lancaster was not good at that. If we sign anyone, that is the type, but if Hester/Keke/Adams can fill that role effectively, they theoretically have additional skills as well. Really depends on what the coaches believe of that group.
Typically run stopping specialists often get cut at the end of camp because of the limited anticipated snap count. If we need one, chances are Gute can claim on waiver. I’d prefer that: give the roster a chance to shed light on internal options.
Harrison is coming off an injury that is tough for a big man and maybe further hampered if rumors of his conditioning lapses have any validity. I would think he may be unsigned for a while under current circumstances. I’d certainly want to have him examined before I counted in him in my planning.
dobber
May 04, 2020 at 10:38 am
"Willis was a high draft pick on talent who plummeted due to non football questions despite some believing he was passed them by his final year, he actually could bring some talent uplift if his head is on properly. Just got caught up in the numbers game."
How often do good ascending young players on cheap contracts end up getting caught in a numbers game when the roster limit is 90? There's more going on in this case, and I suspect the "head" thing may still be an issue.
Coldworld
May 04, 2020 at 11:28 am
He wasn’t a first round type, perhaps day 2. That is part of it. He had some rough edges that needed to be worked on. It’s not that odd a scenario.
I did point out that the issue of contribution will rely on his head being screwed on right, but that if it is, he could increase the level of talent.
jannesbjornson
May 04, 2020 at 12:45 pm
Willis can look like Sapp or look like crap from one play to the next. I liked him at Miami. See if he can dial it in?
flackcatcher
May 04, 2020 at 04:27 pm
Here's the bad news. If Gute fires Pettine his next hire could be.... Dom Capers! (pause) Just kidding. Pettine's not going anywhere, not after his defense got the Packers to the NFC title game. I want big guys too. But Pettine wants BIG GUYS who are athletes. The most rare of all players for his scheme. Overall, last years roster was just thin across the board, and it cost them at the end. With the weird combo of the new CBA and convid-19 working, there are going to be a huge number of vets on the free agent market at cut rate prices. (Wonder how many wishes they had rejected the CBA now. Once again Aaron Rodgers was right...) And the one thing we all know about Gute, he loves a bargain...
Leatherhead
May 04, 2020 at 05:17 pm
We were 9th in scoring defense. Better, in some other key metrics, like takeaways and red zone performance.
For all the rushing yards we gave up, most teams didn’t turn them into points. SF and Philly did, but nobody else got more than 26 and half of our opponents couldn’t get past 16. The conclusion I’d draw is that you can give up a lot of yards outside your 20 and still be a good defense, especially if you are good against the pass.....which we are.
stockholder
May 04, 2020 at 08:39 am
Guteys assessment of the DL Sucks. The DL should have been addressed before the draft. There were so many affordable bargains! The draft had No answers. And Gutey had Love on target first. Gutey stuck it to Pettine! His defense Lost 3 Lbs. And we see Guteys answer through the waiver wire. If this doesn't say come get us, What does? If you think were going to stop the run, think again. Pettine's answer is Dbs. Lots of Zone defense coming. Bend but don't break. Like thats going to work this year. Expecting this secondary to tackle will get them hurt. They just can't make-up for the lack of good LBs. If Kingsley gets hurt, who will answer? And who really trusts the depth in the secondary. This Defense must over achieve again. Gutey Got it wrong. His trading hasn't brought us anything in return. His drafts only 3 starters. We've now lost more starters then he's brought in. The Depth is weak and Full of Holes. Its just not enough! And you all know it!
MarkinMadison
May 04, 2020 at 08:58 am
I have to agree with folks who were surprised Gute didn't sign a FA on the DL back in March. Even if you assume the Pettine will trot out two DL most of the time, this DL lacks anyone with a serious ability to eat up two blockers on run downs. Shouldn't there be at least one player over 320 lbs. that they can trot out on obvious run downs? Maybe they will use Gary on the line more this year, like he was used in Michigan, but I don't see him being the answer there either. Offenses built around the same principles that GB is currently planning will abuse this defense endlessly.
PatrickGB
May 04, 2020 at 12:08 pm
“There is the real sense that this unit is not yet complete. “ Ya think?
I have appreciated Pettine’s emphasis on stopping the pass. After all, didn’t it get us to the playoffs? Yet one solid run stopper could bring us further. And besides, I think that other teams have looked at what SF done to use and will try and replicate it.
flackcatcher
May 04, 2020 at 05:19 pm
Pettine defense is built to stop the new offensive mobile QB option pass/run scheme that Andy Reid used so well in last seasons Superbowl. The scheme's main weakness is twofold. One: You need bodies upfront. Without a good rotation, as we saw a teams DL burns out pretty fast and gets pushed off the LOS. Two: Lack of gap control. As Strol? pointed out without discipline a Pettine front 7 will overrun or more often get washed out leaving massive cut back lanes open. And we all know what happens after that. Pettine needs big athletic guys to work his scheme, not the big 330 pound guys. Yes Kenny Clarke. (Pay the man) But he is a rare talent. Hard to find, hard to draft. Both Gute and Pettine are gambling that a combo of healthy Adams athletic types in line with the hybrids (sounds like the title of a bad SF film) will be quick and stout enough to overwhelm the big OL in the gaps. Personally I want Harrison next to Clarke, could still happen but only if Harrison accepts that his value is not once what it was. But that's not who the Packers are looking for. Still, early days.
Qoojo
May 04, 2020 at 11:00 pm
I can't stop thinking of them as "Kenny Clark and the JAGs"