Packers Snap Counts Vs. Steelers - Week 10
Packers give up over 200 yards rushing again in another loss.
The Packers signed Innis Gaines to the 53-man roster. Jaire Alexander (shoulder) and Quay Walker (groin) were inactive due to injury. Caleb Jones, Samori Toure, and Brenton Cox were healthy scratches. The Packers did not elevate anyone from the practice squad. QB Sean Clifford and RG Sean Rhyan did not play.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Myers | 68 | 100 | 4-14% |
| Runyan | 68 | 100 | 4-14% |
| Walker | 68 | 100 | 4-14% |
| Jenkins | 68 | 100 | |
| Tom | 68 | 100 | |
| Nijman | 5-17% | ||
| Newman | 4-14% | ||
| Rhyan | DNP |
The run blocking was adequate. The Packers gained 116 yards on 24 carries, a 4.8-yard average, with a long of 40. The Packers pulled Runyan and Tom a couple of times. The first time Runyan missed his block, causing a traffic jam of large bodies that resulted in a tackle for loss. The second time Runyan obliterated OLB Alex Highsmith, Tom picked off LB Jack Robinson, and Musgrave and Walker combo-blocked DT Armon Watts to spring Dillon for a 40-yard gain. Otherwise, the Packers gained 76 yards on 23 carries, a 3.3-yard average. Most of the runs were hard-fought, tough yards.
The pass-blocking was pretty good. The Packers allowed 5 QB hits and 1 sack (by TJ Watt). Tom gave up the sack, but it really was a group responsibility. Love dropped back 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage. That's a deep drop, making it hard for an OT to push an OLB wide and past the QB. Myers loses almost immediately to Keeanu Benton while Jenkins loses quickly to Armon Watts despite getting help from Rasheed Walker. Both Benton and Watts push 7 yards deep right up the middle, leaving Love no where to step up when Watt loops around the arc.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Jones | 38 | 56 | |
| Dillon | 34 | 50 | 6-21% |
| Wilson | 3 | 4 |
Jones gained 35 yards on 13 carries (2.7-yards/carry) and added 4 receptions for 19 yards in a forgettable day. Jones had at least 1 drop and arguably 2. On the final drive to try to win the game inexplicably cut inside (for no gain!) instead of going out of bounds, forcing the Packers to hurry up and spike the ball. Apparently Jones has been talking about taking on the role of veteran leadership and holding players accountable, but this was a lamentable failure in both departments. The Packers elected to field one of the youngest teams, so some growing pains were inevitable. However, the veterans have been unreliable, either due to injury (Bakhtiari, Jones, Campbell, Gary, et al), or substandard play (Jenkins, Alexander, Savage, Clark). Dillon gained 70 yards on 9 carries (7.8-yard average) and added 1 reception for 11 yards. Dillon gained some tough yards. He had a drop. Wilson ran 3 routes but had no statistics.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Musgrave | 50 | 74 | 10-34% |
| Kraft | 31 | 51 | 16-55% |
| Deguara | 5 | 7 | 17-59% |
| Sims | 10-34% |
Musgrave caught 2 of 4 passes for 64 yards with a long of 36. He had a drop. The Packers have been featuring Musgrave all season, even when it meant just a 4 yard passes in the flat, but today he caught a 36 and a 28 yard pass down the seam for big plays. One has to note that if Love forces Musgrave to adjust to his pass, Musgrave is going to trip and fall to the ground. Still, the potential is evident and there appears to be some chemistry between Musgrave and Love. Musgrave ran 31 routes. Kraft caught 1 pass for 6 yards. Kraft ran 18 routes per PFF and was targeted twice.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Love | 68 | 100 | |
| Clifford | DNP |
Love completed 21 of 40 attempts (52.5%) for 289 yards (7.2 yards/attempt) with 2 TDs and 2 INTs. His passer rating was 71.8. He was sacked once and hit 5 times. Love added 11 yards on 2 scrambles. Love sometimes does his receivers no favors, and they arguably had 3 drops and a total of 6 passes that were catchable though contested. His deep touch was better. His pass to Doubs for a TD was gorgeous, and his TD pass to Reed was solid. He also fit a couple of balls into narrow windows. He did throw a couple of questionable passes, including 2 that he forced to Watson. The interceptions were perhaps poor decisions, but one was do or die on the last play of the game and the other was a deflection, though Watson was well-covered, so Love should have gone elsewhere or thrown it away.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Doubs | 56 | 82 | |
| Watson | 51 | 75 | |
| Reed | 35 | 51 | 2-7% |
| Wicks | 30 | 44 | |
| Heath | 3 | 4 | 6-21% |
Reed caught 5 of 5 targets for 84 yards and a touchdown. He ran 24 routes. Reed had a nice day, though he muffed a punt. Reed has a tendency to body catch, making fighting for the ball in the air more difficult. Wicks got more snaps and caught 3 of 4 targets for 51 yards on 20 routes. Wicks failed to come up with a touch catch on the sidelines. Doubs caught 3 of 5 targets for 31 yards and a beatiful toe-tapping TD on 35 routes. That is a lot of routes, though. Watson caught 2 of his whopping 7 targets for just 23 yards on 34 routes. The Packers clearly are trying to develop Watson into a number one receiver, but there is a long way to go. Heath ran 2 routes but had no targets, per Pro Football Focus.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Clark | 49 | 75 | |
| Slaton | 41 | 63 | 10-34% |
| Wyatt | 28 | 43 | 6-21% |
| Brooks | 14 | 22 | 9-31% |
| Wooden | 10 | 15 | 5-17% |
The Packers played 2.18 true defensive linemen per play on average. That just is not enough beef against a run-first team, and the quality of the beef is in question. The Packers prefer defensive linemen with juice over stoutness, and it shows. The Steelers rushed 36 times for 205 yards (!!), a 5.7-yard average. The Packers got 4 QB hits, all by LBs, and 2 tackles for loss, both by linebackers. I initially thought the Steelers got much of their running success running off left tackle, but a quick re-watch showed large running lanes to the left, middle and to the right. Arm tackles aren't going to suffice for the 242-pound Najee Harris.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Campbell | 65 | 6-21% | |
| McDuffie | 58 | 89 | 10-34% |
| Smith | 46 | 71 | |
| Gary | 44 | 68 | |
| Enagbare | 21 | 32 | 14-48% |
| Van Ness | 19 | 29 | 10-34% |
| Wilson | 24-83% | ||
| Welch | 18-62% |
It was a forgettable day for this group. There were plenty of missed tackles, including by Van Ness, Campbell, and McDuffie, who had 10 tackles (7 solo) and a QB hit. Campbell had just 3 tackles (1 solo) and a QB hit. Preston Smith had 4 tackles (3 solo) including a sack. Smith beat the LT soundly on another play and drew a holding penalty. Van Ness had 3 tackles (2 solo) including a tackle for loss. Gary had 3 tackles (1 solo) and 1 QB hit. Enagbare had no statistics.
There were plenty of missed tackles, failures to set the edge, failures to squeeze a gap, or get pressure. Pickett only threw the ball 23 times, enough to change the pace (compared to 36 runs), and Pittsburgh generally got the ball out pretty quickly. Campbell dropped a pass that could have been intercepted and returned a long way.
| Player | Snaps | % | STs |
| Owens | 65 | 100 | 11-38% |
| Valentine | 65 | 100 | 6-21% |
| Ballentine | 65 | 100 | 1-3% |
| Ford | 65 | 100 | |
| Nixon | 54 | 83 | 14-48% |
| Johnson, Jr | 6 | 9 | 6-21% |
| Leavitt | 19-66% | ||
| Rochell | 13-45% | ||
| Anderson | 12-41% | ||
| Gaines | 12-41% |
The Packers elected to play 4.92 defensive backs per play on average against the run-first Steelers. It could be that was a reaction to Jaire Alexander and Darnell Savage being injured and the trade of Rasul Douglas, but it could just be the normal game plan. Ford led the team with 10 tackles (7 solo) but he missed a couple. Owens had 8 tackles (7 solo) and a pass defensed. Ballentine had 6 tackles (3 solo) and 2 passes defensed. He held up well after he settled down. Nixon had 4 tackles (2 solo) and a pass defensed. He had a chance to end a drive that ended in a TD for Pittsburgh by intercepting a pass, but he could not get his feet inbounds though he caught the ball. Valentine had 2 tackles (1 solo) and a Pass Interference penalty on 3rd and 3 that gave Pittsburgh a first down on a drive that ended in a touchdown. Johnson had an assisted tackle.
SPECIAL TEAMS:
Whelan averaged 44.8 yards gross and 39.8 yard net punting. He also got a high snap down on an extra point that Carlson made. Carlson made 2 short field goals and 1 of 2 extra points when Deguara failed to block the outside guy on Pittsburgh. Nixon averaged 27.8 yards per kickoff return but included a 49 yarder. He also returned a punt 12 yards.
TE: 1.32
RB: 1.10
WR: 2.57
DL: 2.18
ILB: 1.89
OLB: 2.00
DB: 4.92
Statistics courtesy of NFLgsis
Photo courtesy of Phillip G. Pavely, USA Sports
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Comments (58)
Lphill
November 13, 2023 at 05:25 am
When is Lefluer going to confront Barry about his ridiculous 2 d lineman specialty? Never
Coldworld
November 13, 2023 at 08:05 am
Another game where elevating Ford seemed to make sense but never happened. Sometimes beef helps without needing to be a great player. Barry essentially lost this game where we did an enough on O to succeed. This is the Barry we saw I. The post season. It’s just not good enough and repeating.
I have no doubt that the players are better than he makes them. Retaining him was a Draytonesque move. That said, that was magnified by both Myers and Runyon early. To whiff that quickly and completely up the middle is not survivable. Continuity of issues, continuity of outcome. This coaching staff has to go. Even on a good day (a rare one) LaFleur the OC can’t compensate for LaFleur the HC.
I have always thought Deguara a player misused. However, we are still misusing him and he just isn’t good enough or reliable enough as used. It’s time to cut bait. Resign Austin Allen or play Sims. For what they use Deguara for on STs as well as O, either would be better and remove a crutch from LaFleur that’s always been faulty.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 05:43 am
I agree with most of that, pitchforks and torches at JB! The rare W doesn't change that. How do you think DeGuara should be used?
Thegreatreynoldo
November 13, 2023 at 05:35 am
I am not that concerned about Love's 2 INTs. One was the last play of the game. Better to throw it and hope for a PI or a deflection than to take a sack. Looking at it again, Love didn't have time as he got hit as he threw it so he did not have time to go through more progressions. The first INT was more of a concern as it was 2nd and 9 from the Pittsburgh 14 yard line. Better to put that ball outside at the corner of the end zone where only Watson has a chance at it, since GB can try again on 3rd down. I am happy with the gorgeous TD pass to Doubs and the well-thrown ball TD pass to Reed, both deep passes.
Kudos to LaFleur for going for it on 4th and 6 and to Love for making a nice completion.
I see the high snap was on the field goal to go up 19-17 in the 3rd quarter. Nice job, Whelan.
Ballentine tackled well and was okay in coverage after the initial series. I don't have much good to say about the front 7.
PackfanNY
November 13, 2023 at 06:35 am
Good point. Most people look at “stats” and lose context. The last play interception was because no one was open and he was being pressured. It’s not always the QB. The 1st interception should never have been thrown. Two defenders were all over that play. Of course that is a very quick decision play. I don’t love the play either but it still shouldn’t have been thrown. We simply refuse to work the middle of the field. Red Zone offense is still hit or miss.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 05:48 am
One major thing I want to see JL10 learn is to not try threading needles, especially from a mile away. His interceptions could be far worse because he keeps making this mistake. The int on his final play? Ok, that's an exception; very desperate situation, he had to try it.
T7Steve
November 13, 2023 at 07:02 am
Thanks, TGR.
Could you explain; " The Packers pulled Runyan and Tom a couple of times."?
They screwed you up with the snap counts then. They both show 100%. Who went in for these guys when they got pulled? How many plays did they sit? Inquiring minds want to know.
2.18 D-linemen? I guess if they aren't going to do anything, why have them in there?
Thegreatreynoldo
November 13, 2023 at 07:06 am
Not what I meant. GB didn't pull Runyan and Tom out of the lineup. I meant they were doing a running play and the RG and RT ran to the outside of the LT to throw a block. So there was not just a pulling guard as the lead blocker but a RG and a RT were the lead blockers. I should probably clarify the article but the wording eludes me.
T7Steve
November 13, 2023 at 07:12 am
Now I understand. Thanks!
How 'bout? "They ran the Packer sweep with Runyan and tom a couple times."
Thegreatreynoldo
November 13, 2023 at 07:32 am
I am not old enough to remember the Packer sweep. Might constitute good language.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 05:51 am
I never knew that's what "the Packers sweep" was, as many times as I've heard that beloved Lombardi quote.
bobped
November 13, 2023 at 07:06 pm
I believe he meant "pulled" as used in the context of play design - an offensive lineman leaving his usual spot to pick up another assignment on the other side of the field.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 05:52 am
I read it as simply running down the field, blocking the runner. Apparently you're right!
Coldworld
November 13, 2023 at 08:17 am
That, for me, was by far the most impressive performance by Love. Chicago was encouraging, but required little virtuosity, the impressive part was his mental processing albeit against a team then in total disarray. This was a performance where he looked like a pro QB.
Frankly, I’d rather have seen 3 interceptions if it meant we didn’t simply give up at the end of the first half. Going for it rather than conceding tamely is a very risky proposition in terms of stats, but equally rational as a team.
Some rather disturbing insights into the atmosphere around Watson from his family. Watson has not made a step technically it in terms of physicality since last year. I wonder if that’s why, coupled with LaFleur treating him as anointed. He needs to run better routes and fight. I’m not really referring the the interception yesterday, but to other plays primarily.
Watson has to want it and that starts by realizing that he’s MVS at the moment. If that’s enough for him, that’s all he will be and that’s a waste with his gifts. It’s in you Christian, not what is around you: be the best you can be or fade away.
Ballentine and Valentine played well, once they started playing more physically. Look Joe, that’s what they need to do to succeed (Stokes too), so why come out playing soft and getting them and us burned? Do you not learn?
Myers and Runyon were dreadful for 35 minutes. What does it take to try something, and what were they trying later that got corrected? Why does it not start out that way each week? Why must we travel the same paths till it kills us over and over on both O and D?
jannesbjornson
November 13, 2023 at 08:35 am
His route on the out and up, resulting in the first INT would have gotten a high school player benched. Very sloppy, it has to be carved. Love has to Learn the rear pylon is his target for Watson, but a poor choice in any scenario with the Safety lingering on top. A better ball and it is a TD. Watching Davante put on a route running show Sunday night was worth the ticket.
Tundraboy
November 13, 2023 at 03:13 pm
I agree. There was a moment where I saw we do have a QB to work with and build on which will enable us to concentrate on the rest of the offense in the draft. The defense is on hold until the coaching is dealt with. I can not imagine a world where Barry stays and the rest should be tossed aside as well but I won't hold my breath.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 05:57 am
"Conceding tamely," that's what this entire coaching staff brings to the table. It is NOT how to win a football game - at any level. They're an embarrassment to the league and should be removed by Goodell.
Duneslick
November 13, 2023 at 11:46 am
TD pass to Reed was just good enough. If you watch it it was underthrown and he had to turn around to catch it. Reed had beaten him and the defender never turned around
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 05:58 am
Just good enough for a TD is a mistake I can live with.
croatpackfan
November 16, 2023 at 11:04 am
If Love placed the throw under the yard further, Reed would not be able to catch it. Look again, Reed jumped in the air and catch the ball at the level of his belly. Defender was just inch short to touch the ball - perfectly thrown pass!
I understand that somof you are not satisfied with last few games Jordan Love play, but take in the consideration that he was constantly under the pressure of opposing D due to lousy OL play. I can understand that he already automatically expect at least one player in his face, and routes run by his receivers did not develop yet to the level that he can throw the ball. I also remember only one situation when he had ball for more than 5 seconds, looking down the field and nobody was open to throw to. He finally used check down as rushers were closing to him...
As it looks now, he will match win/lose record from FPQB starting era (+/-1 win), but when you take in the account that FPQB had better OL and better receiving corp to work with, I'm satisfied with his play. There is a lot to improve in his playing, but he is showing constant positive progression in his playing. You may know all things about football, but you need time to transfer that knowledge to the reflexes and automatism in performance. It is populary called "slowing the game for the person!".
I say that I'm dissapointed with Packers performance in most of the games they played this season (all loses and one win), as I hoped that MLF will prepare his team better. I did not expect much from D (it showed correctly up to date), and I doubt that ST will be at the same level as they was last season because, while some of the core players remained, there was to much young players with need to adjust their reaction to the speed of NFL. ST unit is, because of that, more suspectable as you have 2 groups of players - one plays at NFL level and other is still not at the same speed.
NickPerry
November 13, 2023 at 06:48 am
"The Packers played 2.18 true defensive linemen per play on average. That just is not enough beef against a run-first team, and the quality of the beef is in question."
And THIS is why I picked up Warren on my Fantasy Team and scored BIG points. Joe Barry never never fails me. EVERY game I just say WTF Joe? Every damn time. Is Wyatt hurt again or just non-existent? Brooks was really good last week. Why the hell did he play just 14 snaps?
"The Packers clearly are trying to develop Watson into a number one receiver, but there is a long way to go."
THIS is one of the big problems with the Packers. I get it, you gave up a 2nd round pick to move up and grab Watson so they WANT him to be the #1 WR. The problem is he'll NEVER be a #1 WR. Unless this dude is schemed wide open and the ball is delivered right into his hands, he ain't coming down with the ball. I was on the CHTV Watch Party off and on yesterday. I saw many comment he's MAYBE the Packers #4 WR right now. I like BOTH Wicks and Reed a lot more than Watson.
At the end of the day the Packers traded away a 2nd rounder to move up and grab Watson when George Pickens was probably going to be right there. But Gutey once again got infatuated with a RAS score. Fuck the ability to catch the ball and play the position. Lets take the kid from a small ass school who run the ball most of the time and take the guy who's amazing in spandex.
We may win the combine with our RAS scores, but lately, it's been ugly on the field. I just hope SOME of these guys are salvageable once MLG and Gutey are gone. If it's not after this year it will be next season for sure, once Murphy finally retires.
T7Steve
November 13, 2023 at 07:22 am
Nick, I feel your frustration, but let's give Watson and Love a couple of seasons together before we give up on him/them. I know! I always said the same about MVS too. You can't coach speed so if he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off for a couple seasons, we'll have to bear with it.
This post was written in LH's honor. Hope this site didn't run him off (but it probably did). What's the point of running off people with different opinions? If everyone thinks the same, where does that lead our conversations? Only thing left is to just learn football from guys like TGR.
Coldworld
November 13, 2023 at 08:24 am
I fear the Packers reality ran him off. He had such expectations.
T7Steve
November 13, 2023 at 09:47 am
Do you think we ran off GeenGold too? Didn't think that was possible either.
HawkPacker
November 13, 2023 at 10:33 am
No T7. I miss him and his positive outlook. Not sure what happened but am a bit worried why we don't see him here.
Coldworld
November 13, 2023 at 10:38 am
He’s come and gone before I think.
Guam
November 13, 2023 at 08:03 am
Spot on with both issues NP. I suspect Barry was trying to protect his two rookie CBs by playing lots of nickel, but after the first quarter where the Steelers ran the ball down his defense's throat, what have you got to lose by switching to three D-linemen? The inability of this team to make in-game adjustments on either side of the ball is frightening.
Watson is beginning to concern me. The deflected interception was almost a carbon copy of the end zone pick a couple of weeks ago. Love throws a jump ball, expecting his 6'5" 200+ pound WR to go get it and Watson does the fade away fall giving the defender unimpeded play on the ball. Watson is not going to be a #1 WR until he learns to compete for the ball. Note that I am not absolving Love on that throw - Watson was covered and Love probably should have gone elsewhere - but dammit, compete for the ball and at least don't allow the interception.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:08 am
Reed plays like he's bigger than Watson.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:08 am
Reed plays like he's bigger than Watson.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:04 am
Nick, I've been saying for a while that #11 should be considered our #1. Wicks is certainly making his case for moving up in the rotation. #9 caught his first two targets, and apparently that's all.
CTFB
Why no Toure?
RCPackerFan
November 13, 2023 at 07:01 am
"Musgrave 50, Kraft 31, Deguara 5"
Sometimes you watch games and it feels like you see something only to turn around and look at the snaps and whatnot and see something different. For example how many snaps a player gets. In this case it felt like i saw Kraft on the field a lot more. And I didn't recall seeing Deguara a lot. From the beginning of the year till now, Deguara's snap counts on offense has really dropped. He was averaging 20.5 snaps a game the first 6 games this year. The last 3 he has averaged 7.6. Krafts however has slowly increased. The first 4 games he has averaged 9.5 per game, The last 5 games he has averaged 27.4.
Kraft is trending upwards whereas Deguara is trending downwards.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 13, 2023 at 07:08 am
True about Kraft going up and Deguara decreasing. I take leave to doubt that it is because Kraft is improving. Just that Deguara doesn't bring enough to the table.
RCPackerFan
November 13, 2023 at 07:58 am
I don't know. Watching him blocking (I don't see every play), but I feel like he was blocking really well and has improved a ton. And is starting to see some action in the passing game as well.
dobber
November 13, 2023 at 11:29 am
Seems the Packers have plugged Kraft into the Marcedes Lewis role (about 43-ish% of snaps, but doesn't run a lot of routes). Musgrave is running Tonyan's snaps.
I'd argue that the Deguara snaps are being taken up by WR now.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 14, 2023 at 12:28 am
PFF isn't gospel, but they gave Kraft a 43.2 grade. "Kraft ran 18 routes but caught just one pass and earned below average blocking grades." [Per Packerswire.]
So, they are dinging him for his receiving- below average run grades could be an improvement.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:16 am
At the draft it was obvious that if you wanted contributions from our rookie TEs this year, the way to do it is split their duties rather than trying to get both of them to learn everything. Musgrave is obviously the better receiver, just no YAC. Kraft is obviously better with contact so have him block. Spreading them out into both duties is hurting their overall effectiveness.
T7Steve
November 13, 2023 at 07:09 am
Do you know how many times they played the pony with Dillan and Jones together?
Thegreatreynoldo
November 13, 2023 at 07:31 am
There were 75 snaps for running backs on 68 plays. Might have been some plays with no RBs on the field (or 3, theoretically) ), but assuming those didn't happen they probably ran the pony 7 times.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:11 am
I think Kraft can develop into a heckuva football player. Between him and #28's blocking they still don't make up for the loss of Big Dog, but they should be developed into serious pass pro.
Houndog
November 13, 2023 at 07:11 am
Good morning everyone, I've got nothing much to say.
I got here just in time to see that NickPerry beat me to the punch, damned near word-for-word.
Nothing will truly improve until Murphy is gone and Gutey follows him out the door. Until then they'll keep shoving 'their guys' down our throats, i.e., LaFleur, Barry, and Watson. WTF?
tobinrote
November 13, 2023 at 08:13 am
well, Love made two nice TD throws, but so many of the other ones asked the receiver to make a hard catch when a well thrown ball would have been easy. Then too did i not see that on the INT to Watson, he had a guy completely uncovered in the flat, and the same on the early throw into the endzone where a first down was for the asking. He is just not the long term answer. but the most aggravating thing, so that anyone can see, is going with two down linemen against a running team. it is so frustrating to watch such imbecility that i am inclined to shut off the tv. So Love has four years to learn the trade, and CJ Stroud just two months and we have maybe the league MVP in his rookie year.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:21 am
The talk of Stroud as MVP is hype. Rookie of the year? Sure, he's playing well. You're being premature on JL10. He does need to learn not to try to thread needles, especially from a mile away. That's coaching. Maybe he learned how to throw it away to avoid a sack in this game?
egbertsouse
November 13, 2023 at 09:23 am
The Packers need to stop demanding that Watson is the No. 1 WR and reduce his targets. He is a No. 3 at this point. Give Doubs, Wicks, and Reed more targets.
Love needs to stop forcing it to Watson and look for the open man. They all have to admit that Watson is a skinnier MVS and should only be targeted occasionally to stretch the defense.
dobber
November 13, 2023 at 11:12 am
At this stage, you're right. There's chemistry between Love/Reed/Doubs/Wicks/Musgrave. I don't see what Watson is being asked to do matching well with what Love does well at this point.
A lot of chaff being thrown Watson's way for not refining his craft. Reduce his snaps, make him work for it. They'll have to ask others (Reed, Musgrave) to try to threaten teams deep in the short term, but that's working better at the moment. Right now, Watson seems covered all the time.
Tundraboy
November 13, 2023 at 03:18 pm
I agree. And what crime did Toure commit to keep getting buried further? It's time to play people!.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:30 am
When picked, #9 was an obvious direct replacement for MVS. He stretches the opposing defense even without being targeted! #9 was immediately more versatile with route running, and a higher completion rate. An instant upgrade. Just target him when he's OPEN even if it's never, and that's their fastest defender taken out of the game, helping everyone else get open. Like nearly everyone else on this roster, he's regressed under this coaching.
The WR maybe isn't the first coach that needs to be shown the door, that honor goes to Butkus. Replacing the strength and conditioning staff at the same time couldn't hurt. After that it's a competition between the TE coach and Vrable with the WRs. Amazingly, they're all so bad as to be worse than JB, but he's fighting back for the honor of being #1 of who needs to be removed first. With this race to the bottom you expect me to believe they aren't competing for the highest draft pick?
Gutey is not a people person, which means he's not a GM. MLF might be ok as an OC, Stenovitch is not.
PeteK
November 13, 2023 at 09:32 am
IMO, it's not fair to compare a rarity like Stroud. Also, when you're not paying a high contract on a QB you can go out and sign veterans, as Houston did.
T7Steve
November 13, 2023 at 09:52 am
You mean, build a team around the QB? What a novel approach. I don't think we've used that approach since Lombardi.
I'd settle for just building a line on both sides of the ball. Of course, you'd also have to implement it on defense, for it to have any effect.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:45 am
Joe Barry's idea of an ideal defense is 8 DBs who stay 20 yards away from the ball, and 3 LBs who don't really pass rush. Just let the opposing offense run. The league is just too backwards to let him be himself. Injuries would go down. Bet!
dobber
November 13, 2023 at 11:15 am
At this stage, the Strouds are becoming less and less rare...they still aren't a dime-a-dozen, but young QBs who are competent from the start are not the needle in a haystack they once were.
They added some talent through FA (as you note) but I think DeMeco Ryans is starting to look like a good coach with a good staff.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:52 am
It's a shame that JJ Watt wasn't playing on a good team. I think Stroud is making the case that he's more than just "competent," but talk of him as MVP feels as premature as trying to make #9 a WR1. If Stroud wins a playoff game that still isn't enough to be MVP, but the hype train might roll that far this year?
dobber
November 13, 2023 at 11:37 am
The Steelers did the Packers a favor pretty much every time they threw the ball.
I think this game was more exciting than Denver or Vegas because the Packers started out a little faster, but on the whole, I'm trying to decide whether it was really better. Pittsburgh has a winning record, yes, and it feels like a better game, but we still see a lot of the same issues.
The Packers have had red zone issues since 2021 and Love is struggling there, too. My recollection is that he struggled on red zone drills in camp (this year and last).
I see three pretty demoralizing games coming (Chargers, at Det, Chiefs).
jont
November 13, 2023 at 04:32 pm
"I see three pretty demoralizing games coming (Chargers, at Det, Chiefs)."
Yep.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 06:56 am
Buckle down. We've seen many of the same mistakes, even in the rare win. The type of stuff that will add JL10 to the injured list if allowed to continue, and coaches sure as hell aren't doing anything to stop it. The calls to see Clifford take the field might get answered.
Thegreatreynoldo
November 14, 2023 at 12:34 am
Stop running Greengold off!
By pre-planning, I met Greengold at a practice this summer and went out for butter burgers after practice. [I warned him during practice that his optimism just might be misplaced.] Anyway, I learned enough about him that perhaps I can contact him to see if he is okay. I'll give it a go.
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 07:02 am
Thanks.
I've been hoping it's just that his optimism can't be continued during the present distress, and he's decided to focus on other things instead. He's missed!
At TC I was enjoying the individual talent and effort, wasn't sure if coaches were doing everything to develop all 90 as much as possible, and remained keenly aware that turning individual players into a team is a very different skill. And adjusting in game is different yet. I was beyond perturbed that they didn't seem to be figuring out their O line, and now their sheer incompetence is fully on display. Butkus should be overridden by both Steno and MLF. If he were simply shown the door and not replaced it would be an improvement.
bobped
November 13, 2023 at 07:31 pm
Hey guys, regarding the run defense, don't lose track of the salary cap situation. Going big-time deficit to ride Mr. Regular Season to the promised land left the Packers with the third-highest dead cap this year. Add Alexander and throw in part of all the other big salary guys like Clark obviously playing hurt vs. the Steelers and you are at a pretty big disadvantage.
Steelers started the season at $18M dead cap, Packers at $64M. Sure we have a lot of young talent and we can debate how they're performing and make some tweaks. But that's $46M+ of additional beef they could have. Pass the mashed potatoes, please
SicSemperTyrannis
November 14, 2023 at 07:07 am
You're opening the can of worms of what would have happened if Gutey had actually gone all in on winning a SB in 2020 instead of just talking about it. Drafting JL10 certainly brought them no closer during the Rogers era. I hated it then but this is now; what we have is a disaster but I think the talent assembled is not the primary deficit.