Packers Question of the Day: Takeaways From The Win
The Packers played in Cleveland for just the third time since 1995 on Sunday, and their results were the same as the previous two meetings: victory.
It took until overtime -- the first consecutive overtime wins for the Packers in franchise history, after beating the Buccaneers last week -- but they got the job done regardless.
They also made things interesting in the NFC, as Aaron Rodgers is expected to start next week against the Panthers.
What were your takeaways from the win?
__________________________
Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].
Comments (77)
egbertsouse
December 11, 2017 at 08:50 am
They will not make the playoffs.
Also, nothing is going to change at 1265 Lombardi Ave. A win or loss at Cleveland did not matter. They will play Rodgers whether they are in the playoff hunt or not. It’s what they do. Just think about the next game, nothing else. Ted and Mikey will get contract extensions. I’ve read that the extensions may already be in the works. (Blame espn.com, not me.)
HankScorpio
December 11, 2017 at 09:17 am
"It’s what they do. Just think about the next game, nothing else. "
This is perhaps one of the strangest criticisms I have ever seen of the Packers current regime. If anything, they look to the future too much. They are rarely blowing cap on signing big $$ FAs. They lean heavily on younger players meaning any ROI on player pick ups is likely a year or two away.
And really, why shouldn't they play Rodgers if he's cleared? Don't give me a medical reason because that's crap. If Drs that examined Rodgers clear him, it's foolish to think armchairs Drs that have not examined him know better.
dobber
December 11, 2017 at 09:07 am
I agree: if he's cleared to play, it means that physicians have determined that he's physically able and not at a significantly elevated risk of incurring damage to the existing injury by playing. As with just about any other player on the roster, if he's cleared by medical staff, he should play.
"It’s what they do. Just think about the next game, nothing else. "
Isn't this the mantra of professional sports in general? One game at a time...
I don't kid myself: if ARod goes out and gets pounded, reinjuring his collarbone and being done for the year, the wolves will be howling. But no one here was complaining when Aaron Jones, just 3 weeks removed from an MCL tear which could not possibly be completely healed, was running for a TD last week. Nobody seemed to care that Kevin King and Devon House were playing with only one arm. Everyone seemed to be relieved when Bakhtiari and Bulaga were trying to play on gimpy hamstrings or ankles earlier in the year, but suffering setbacks. In those cases, they were able, and they played. They were trying to be professionals and they wanted to be on the field. It's no different here, and the stakes are higher. You can't tell me that watching #12 on the sideline the last couple weeks it's not been killing him to be relegated to the role of spectator. If he's cleared he's going to all but demand to play...and he should.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 11, 2017 at 09:19 am
Well said. No one hacked my account. That post and the "Oliver" inspired one below it were all just little ole me.
egbertsouse
December 11, 2017 at 11:50 am
It wasn’t so much of a criticism as an observation in response to fans who think one game (or one bad season) is going to change Packer culture. They are predictable and consistent. And, it has worked for them, they are up to their eyeballs in cash. Nobody is getting fired and killing this golden goose. Why change how they operate when they are cleaning up.
dobber
December 11, 2017 at 12:40 pm
Every NFL team is up to its eyeballs in cash.
Thegreatreynoldo
December 12, 2017 at 02:41 am
You're just totally wrong. GB could fire every coach, the whole BOD, the water boys, and they still would be up to their eyeballs with cash. Firing folks won't kill the golden goose. The whole point is that the cash is almost totally divorced from the product on the field, and from the coaching staff.
fastmoving
December 11, 2017 at 12:01 pm
bert, nobody blames you for anything......how should we.....
Chuck Farley
December 11, 2017 at 12:41 pm
I agree and do not see anyone getting canned. Fact is if Rogers hadnt been hurt you can dam well bet Ted and Mike and Dom would in their pea brains be saying, were right in the thick of this division.
Fact, the Vikes are a rock solid team on offense, d and special teams and never beat themselves. Their GM scrapped an entir O line and replaced them without hesitation in one season and they may be super bowl bound.
Thus, one team made changes with picks and acquistions, not undrafteds and are elite.
The other is trying to develop guys on the cheap and how is that working. How mnay guys did we develop who left for mo money.
No the packers will fritter away Rogers career rather than make the changes needed to be competitive in their own division.
SpudRapids
December 11, 2017 at 08:56 am
McCarthy is a good coach... abysmal as Hundley has been at times, with injuries all around, only the Ravens and Lions game were out of reach with Hundley as a starter. They have been in every game and have found ways to win the last 2.
cuervo
December 11, 2017 at 09:20 am
Have to respectively strongly disagree. I will admit that for all of MM failings (and there are a lot of them), his teams don't quit on him. Other than that, he is an average or below average coach, and his record without Rodgers proves it...I believe now is 5-10-1.
While it's nice they won yesterday, part of me knows that if Rodgers comes back and they win a couple more games there will be zero change after this year. Regardless of how this season ends, it will not change my opinion that MM needs to be fired in order for actual change to occur. As long as he's here, SB's will continue to evade us.
SpudRapids
December 11, 2017 at 01:25 pm
Please see how you got eviscerated by Since 61 below...
Doug Niemczynski
December 11, 2017 at 07:19 pm
Any descent QB rips the packers defense to shreds
dobber
December 11, 2017 at 09:00 am
Takeaway: As bad as #7 and the defense have looked at times, they've somehow managed to stay afloat in a wide-open NFC. Take away the Vikings game, and Hundley was 3-4 as a starter. Prior to the season, we were talking about how the Packer backup just needed to keep the team afloat until #12 came back. Might've liked 4-3 better than 3-4, but they aren't completely out of it.
RCPackerFan
December 11, 2017 at 09:19 am
Hundley is a clutch QB. He plays his best on the road and in the 4th quarter. Just wish he played better between the first drive and the 4th quarter.
McCarthy has some cojones! All game long you could see he desperately wanted this game. His 4th down calls. Fake punt, to the failed conversion. His best moment came when he challenged the catch that hit the ground.
McCarthy I thought called a really good game, and in OT I was happy to see him staying aggressive and not try to settle for the long FG.
Most said before this game that it was going to be a tough game. They lost 4 games by 3 points. It took the Packers until OT to win, but its a win and that's all that matters. It was actually an exciting win in the end.
The rest of the season is now determined based on a scan. If Rodgers can come back, they have a chance at the playoffs. If he can't. I don't think they do. Its as simple as that.
EdsLaces
December 11, 2017 at 10:25 am
I'm with you RC. Mike called a killer game. That fake punt was amazing. I also thought we were going to settle for that field goal try. Proud of this team on many levels.
RCPackerFan
December 11, 2017 at 11:06 am
I never saw that fake punt coming. I was shocked. Actually Cleveland had it defended pretty well, but Whitehead made a great play.
That whole drive I kept saying don't just run the ball, don't be predictable. And they weren't. So many coaches tend to play it safe in that situation. I was happy he didn't.
I thought he did a great job.
Finwiz
December 11, 2017 at 11:35 am
Yup - that was a total surprise, and Cleveland actually defended it well.
Whitehead made a damn good play to get around the corner.
A punter in that situation would have been stopped.
zoellner25
December 11, 2017 at 09:21 am
Our defense is still mostly bad.
Our rookie RBs will be fun to watch the next 5 years.
Tundraboy
December 11, 2017 at 09:47 am
Takeaways? We're better than the Browns.
In all seriousness, I'd rather come back and win in dramatic fashion, then blow a lead with prevent D and scratch out a WIN, and they did that. Gathered some more experience that will help the young guys. Is Jones hurt or have a setback? Let the 2018 auditions continue.
OrganLeroy
December 11, 2017 at 03:26 pm
Jones still struggles with pass protection.
Coldworld
December 11, 2017 at 05:10 pm
He had 3 pass break ups including a key one at a he end of the fourth. Is he veteran savvy? No, but he is improving.
Tundraboy
December 12, 2017 at 08:38 am
Aaron Jones
TarynsEyes
December 11, 2017 at 09:54 am
If the defense against better QB's and offenses can refrain from looking/playing like this.......the hope that comes from Rodgers return may become more realistic.
http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cblXhZ2GGm
Bearmeat
December 11, 2017 at 10:02 am
My takeaways:
1. That game was frustrating as hell to watch in the 2/3rd quarter, but exciting as hell in the 1st and 4th. Regardless of facing a bad team - it was a team desperately wanting any win. Great comeback.
2. Our CBs and OLBs will kill this season. Again. Just like last year.
3. I'm still not sure I want ARod back, as I don't think GB can win out, and I seriously doubt they can win a road playoff game against a team with a good QB and a good defense. Even with ARod.
4. I don't think Capers will be fired if we make the playoffs. I have no hope that either TT or MM will be gone in 2018.
5. And yet, with all that... we have a chance. I am a Packer fan and I really tried to root for my team to lose yesterday because my head says that this team as its currently constructed has no shot at the Lombardi, and it won't while DC is the defensive coordinator. I couldn't do it. I was yelling at B Dubs like CRAZY in those last 2 drives.
6. And now, for the ridiculous playoff scenarios: Basically, we have to win out and hope that SEA loses vs. LAR or @ DAL in the next 2 weeks. They’re not losing vs AZ in week 17. If SEA wins out and, assuming no HUGE upsets of either of the NFCS WC teams, we’re out. Even if we win out.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/machine/_/results/400951694~1~400951696~...
RCPackerFan
December 11, 2017 at 10:22 am
1. I don't get Hundley. He just has no consistency during that stretch. But he has been clutch in the 4th quarter.
3. If Rodgers is cleared to play, which means the Doctors who scan him says he is healed and won't get injured on contact, then why not play him?
If they have a chance to make it don't you want to take that chance? I do. Sometimes the ball just needs to bounce your way. I know our defense is lacking, but it was lacking at the beginning of the year and we were 4-1 with Rodgers. Also our offense was in bad shape then too. Now we have a legit RB, and a good OL. Rodgers comes back the WR's improve a ton.
4. MM helped keep this team alive, when so many teams/players would have given up when Rodgers went out. You really want to give up on a coach that kept the team together when easily could have been lost?
Thompson only goes this year if they fear that Wolf signs with someone and they deemed him Thompsons successor.
I really think Capers will be gone.
6. Honestly, we need Carolina to lose 1 game, and Seattle to lose 1 game.
Carolina beating the Vikings didn't help. But we need them to lose to the Bucs or Falcons. We need Seattle to lose to the Rams or Cowboys. Or we need the Falcons to lose 2 games. They play at Bucs, at Saints, and Panthers.
IF Rodgers comes back, and they can win out, the remaining 3 weeks could be very, very exciting.
cuervo
December 11, 2017 at 10:36 am
"MM helped keep this team alive, when so many teams/players would have given up when Rodgers went out. You really want to give up on a coach that kept the team together when easily could have been lost?"
I give MM credit that his teams don't quit on him. To answer the other part of your question, yes.....give up on him. He has too many faults to get this team with Arod to the promised land.
RCPackerFan
December 11, 2017 at 10:54 am
Can I ask why you would give up on him? And what are his faults?
And if your dead set on getting rid of him, who do you want to replace him?
cuervo
December 11, 2017 at 11:07 am
Sure..... Shawn Slocum, Dom Capers, Winston Moss, Scott Tolzein, Brett Hundley,
In game decisons, inability to make in game adjustments. Offense game plan is stale and has been for years. When you realize that our offensive game plan is and has been, hike the ball to #12 and allow him to run around and make plays that nobody else in the league can make....why would you accept that? I think his talent evaluation of players is terrible and has been.
Part of being a good coach is recognizing when changes need to be made...loyalty or friendships be damned. He is unwilling or unable to make those decisions.
MM is an average head coach....I think we should strive for something better...don't you?
Who replaces him? I don't have any idea of available candidates, but when you see what a difference a coach like Philly's or the Rams, or Jacksonville's, or Atlanta's has made recently...why wouldn't you strive for the same? MM has been here long enough, had a good run, time for change or you can expect the same as we've had the last 6 years, which is fine but a SB won't be part of it.
Since'61
December 13, 2017 at 11:49 am
cuervo - how is MM a below average head coach when he has the 3rd highest winning percentage among currently active NFL coaches? In 2013 and now in 2017 he kept his team playing hard while not only losing his best player but with 10+ players on IR in those seasons. If anything MM has been a model of consistency and resiliency.
You claim his game plans are stale. Really? Then why is his offense usually ranked in the top 10 of the league in many offensive categories. BTW, back in the 60s commentators said that Lombardi's game plans were simple and we all know how that worked out. In fact, during the 1962 season the Packers defeated the Bears 49-0 and Bears coach/owner/founder/HOFer George Halas admitted that they knew every play the Packers were going to run and they still could not stop them. It's not just a matter of game plans and play calls it is a matter of execution.
You really think you know what the game plans should be when you have no idea what defense the opponent is going to play. When you haven't spent the previous week studying game film and compared with coaches who have 20-30 years of experience preparing for games.
Mike Holmgren told me when I congratulated him on calling a good game during the 1994 season "Amateurs focus on play calling, professionals focus on the execution." That statement by Coach Holmgren applies to you perfectly and your criticisms of MM.
MM is not perfect and he is not Holmgren or Lombardi but compared with his peers in this era of the NFL (which is becoming more of a joke with every week) he is a very good to excellent NFL coach. The fact that you have no idea of who you want to replace him tells all of us that you don't know what a good coach should be or what criteria you have for a good coach. Let's see if the Rams, Philly, Jags and Falcons head coaches are still in the league 11 seasons from now.
I would say when you have an idea of what you are watching come back and provide all of your suggestions and recommendations to GBs BOD and see how far you get. Until then, thanks for playing. Thanks, Since '61
Bearmeat
December 11, 2017 at 12:26 pm
....savage.... lol
Since'61
December 11, 2017 at 12:35 pm
Thanks Bearmeat. I'm happy to see that you've moved on from your recent snarkiness. Be well my CHTV friend. Since '61
SpudRapids
December 11, 2017 at 01:25 pm
Great post... I was going to type up the same kind of response above because I see eye to eye with you on McCarthy but you beat me to it
Since'61
December 11, 2017 at 01:26 pm
Thanks Spud. I probably was a little too strong but every post is the same with his criticisms of MM. Since '61
Finwiz
December 11, 2017 at 12:37 pm
Yeah, that's what they mean when they say, "you're getting beaten severely about the head and shoulders with a stick". The stick being proverbial.
Utter brutality.
Since'61
December 11, 2017 at 01:28 pm
Fin - "Utter Brutality" like a hit by Nitschke. Thanks, Since '61
HankScorpio
December 11, 2017 at 01:45 pm
"Mike Holmgren told me when I congratulated him on calling a good game during the 1994 season "Amatuers focus on play calling, professionals focus on the execution." "
Fantastic stuff, Since '61. Particularly this part.
Since'61
December 11, 2017 at 02:50 pm
Thanks Hank, appreciate your generous thoughts. Since '61
Thegreatreynoldo
December 12, 2017 at 05:47 am
The offense is going to be top 5 as long as AR is the QB. Does anyone think we couldn't let Edgar Bennett be a real OC, hire a defensive-minded head coach and not miss a beat on offense - as long as AR is our QB? I at least don't think there would be much if any drop off at this stage of AR's career. Earlier when AR was not so experienced, maybe so. I am open-minded about this since we've seen Atlanta's powerhouse offense splutter a bit after their OC left. But then again, Dan Quinn, the head coach, is a defensive-minded guy.
We've gone round the play-calling/execution argument now for years. Obviously, it is execution not plays or scheme: problem with the D therefore isn't Capers' scheme but with the players' inability to execute it. DBs if deserving of the name should be equally adept at playing zone or man and press; no DC should have to take into consideration his players' strengths when devising a game plan. AR isn't that well known for executing that offensive game plan - he's known for his ability to play outside the structure of the offense.
You should remember your words the next time you criticize Capers' scheme or judging how good of a DC Capers is when you yourself haven't spent the previous week studying game film and you yourself don't have 20 to 30 years of experience preparing for games. Your own words disqualify you from posting a word about Capers' scheme, whether it is stale or if his bend but don't break philosophy is wrong or outdated, or whether he is a less than average DC.
I believe you've called for Capers to be fired for the last few years (perhaps I'm mistaken - I'll take your word for it if you correct me on this point). I imagine had you gone to the BOD with that suggestion a year or two ago you would have gotten exactly as far as cuervo is likely to get with the current BOD about firing MM. Cuervo might have a better chance. It was kind of a pointless phrase for you to use but it did convey the heavy sarcasm you intended. Nor do I think in today's NFL that you can be successful if your opponent knows what play you're going to run. Woodson was special in part because of his recognition skills. Hyde showed with his playoff INT what happens when a defender realizes what is coming.
MM isn't just the coach of the offense, he is the head coach. Any head coach who thinks having Zook at ST coordinator and Capers as defensive coordinator is just Jim dandy has some mighty black marks against him in my book. Given the offensive talent that MM has been provided with, I'd say that MM has probably met the lowest expectations, and arguably has met most reasonable ones, but hasn't exceeded them. Sounds average to me.
Tundraboy
December 12, 2017 at 08:43 am
Finally a voice of reason. Particularly the last paragraph. Nice summary TGR
Since'61
December 13, 2017 at 05:09 pm
TGR - I have called for Capers to be fired over the years but not for the reasons that you have stated. I don't know enough about Capers schemes to know if they would be more effective with better players. What I do know is that the same issues on defense have remained for years. Specifically, lack of a sense of urgency, lack of consistent pass rush, poor tackling and a consistently middle of the field tell me at that something is wrong. Is it the players or the D.C, probably some of both. The issue is that something needs to change and we can't replace all of the players but we can find a new D.C. With a new approach.
Is MM responsible? Yes to some degree. But he is following a model established by Holmgren. Holmgren hired an older and more experienced Fritz Shurmur to be his DC so that Holmgren could focus on Favre and the offense. Obviously Shurmur was a better D.C. Than Capers and Holmgren IMO was a better HC than MM.
As I have said before, some of this is due to complacency by Packers management. I would fired D.C. After 2013. After all this time I believe that Capers is here for the duration of the current regime. Thanks , Since '61
cuervo
December 12, 2017 at 06:43 am
Since 61,
And you are now somehow the resident "expert" here? What's your background...you talked to Holmgren once.....wow..you're qualified.
You are allowed to have your opinion and I'm allowed to have mine. To answer your questions, it's pretty apparent that MM record is as good as as it has been because of 1 player...period. Without that 1 player he is 5-10-1. I'm sure that your "expert" opinion finds that acceptable..I don't.
Not that it matters, but I played (not alot) 4 years at a Div. 1 school and coached as a grad assistant for 2 years at the same school.....my guess is that I know more about football than you can ever hope to. But it's nice that you have an inflated opinion of your supposed expertise and dismiss anyone with a differnt opinion....a trait held by those with low self esteem....congrats!
Bearmeat
December 11, 2017 at 11:45 am
3. You raise good points, RC. But there's the thing - you and I fundamentally disagree about what constitutes a "good" season. With a QB like ARod, a "good" season is at the very least, a title game appearance. Making the playoffs is, frankly, expected. And we have had FAR too many defensive letdowns in the past 10 years for me to see anything but the same thing happening again this year. Along with a correspondingly lower draft pick each round. The evidence that our defense can at least manage to be average is NOT there dude. It's not. Our pass rush sucks. Our CB play sucks. Blame injuries if you want, but the evidence says clearly what it does.
4. The other part of the answer: No I don't think TT or MM will be gone. And I'm on the fence about whether or not I like that. I think 2015 was when TT should have retired. MM.... eh... yeah. I guess either way I can see points for. DC NEEDS TO GO. And yet, if we make the playoffs, I SERIOUSLY doubt he will be let go. That's not how TT and MM roll, dude.
6. No. We don't need CAR to lose 1 game - other than the game this week to us (obviously). IF we win out, we only need SEA to lose 1 of it's last 3 and we're in. We'd be the 6 seed. To get a higher seed than that, we'll need some really crazy stuff to happen.
My personal guess is that we'll end up 8-8 and miss the dance. Worst place to be IMO.
Tundraboy
December 12, 2017 at 08:49 am
8-8 Yuck. Maybe we will get lucky in the draft
OrganLeroy
December 11, 2017 at 03:32 pm
Thompson isn't going anywhere unless he wants to. People need to get off this bull about the front office being afraid to lose Elliott Wolf, just because Ron was his dad doesn't give him a V.I.P. ticket to the GM job. Murphy has already said' Ted can stay as long as he wants' and, 'when Ted does leave, it's not a given we'll promote someone from in house'. TED IS GOING NOWHERE!
Finwiz
December 11, 2017 at 10:49 am
I don't get how they can automatically project GB to 10-6 at this point.
That's making a LOT of assumptions about the last three games, particularly IF Rodgers plays, and if he does, how healthy will he really be.
It's still a team game, and although he's a great QB, 21 other guys need to do their jobs for this to come out right. That's a lot to ask of this team.
dobber
December 11, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Yeah, these last three are no cake walk, and I have serious doubts about this team's ability to win at Carolina even if #12, who will be rusty, does play. ARod won't be himself: he'll have to be careful about extending plays and taking hits. He'll have to be unloading the ball earlier on feeling pressure and throwing it away more. They'll have to run the ball more to protect him. It won't be the same #12-led offense we're used to seeing...
OrganLeroy
December 11, 2017 at 03:34 pm
Well, the smart thing would be a run heavy attack, but we all know MM will never do that. Plus, even if we lose, and I believe we will, Arod will still want to beat the Vikings @ Lambeau, then sit him @ Detroit.
Coldworld
December 11, 2017 at 05:22 pm
MM isn’t perfect. He has some irritating traits to be sure, on of which may be excessive loyalty to players and coaches certainly. Sometimes he gets away from things that are working too. That said, there is, and has never been, a perfect coach who has never called a clunker or just been out thought at times.
MM does adjust. The second half offense yesterday was a major shift from that of the first. He out coached Williams who some once rated a defensive genius. Overall, with Hundley starting, I think Hundley’s learning curve accounts for the Saints game, but you could argue that he outcoached his opponent in all but the Ravens game.
Allowing for the fact that he has, during that period, had a QB who was not going to win it on his own, I would say that that is a pretty darn good strike rate. Who on earth would you all want who can demonstrate a reason to believe that they would do better. You can’t give credit for winning 3 games with Hundley to the latter’s inherent gridiron magic surely?
Overall, we are lucky to have Mike.
TarynsEyes
December 11, 2017 at 10:20 am
Rodgers coming back will at least give me and others who re-watch games, the benefit of watching how the QB position should be played for at least 8 1/2 games of the 16. Though a playoff game may get added but not likely.
Art
December 11, 2017 at 11:06 am
How do we evaluate Hundley fairly? Performs well late in games when defenses are playing off our receivers and in a prevent mode, but has a difficult time during the game when defenses are covering tight and pressing our receivers. Has a hard time completing passes consistently that are longer than 10 yards down field. Note all the short passes around line of scrimmage and check down passes. The defenses allowing him to complete short and preventing big plays. Does that indicate he is a true NFL caliber QB or compares more to the basketball player that scores double digits in garbage time? Can't consistently win coming back every week. What I'm trying to decide is whether Hundley is really developing as a legitimate QB or a product of game circumstances and defensive strategy late in the game where defense allows alot of short gains thus inflating his stats.
Thought for another day. Did the fall of Aaron Rodgers to the Packers pick in Thompsons first draft elevate both TT and MM to a higher success status than their body of work really is. That is Rodgers has carried them to higher successes then their drafting and coaching actually earned.
dobber
December 11, 2017 at 12:50 pm
I was watching the Pitt/Baltimore game last night and Collinsworth was talking about Antonio Brown as MVP, and I found myself thinking, "if the Packers run the table and get to 10-6, how could there be any doubt as to which player in the league is most valuable to his team?" That's not the way the decision will be made, but when it comes down to it, it would be true.
OrganLeroy
December 11, 2017 at 03:39 pm
It's very clear that without Aaron there isn't enough talent, both sides of the ball, to win. Ted & MM have lived and continue to live off of Aaron's greatness, and more of the blame IMO goes to Ted and average to below average drafting, then Capers schemes are out dated and his defenses too complicated, and sadly, this teams lack of talent really shows when year after year, they are one of the most injured rosters in the NFL.
Coldworld
December 11, 2017 at 05:32 pm
A QB with a 3 something yard average pass length is a game manager at best. Yet Hundley is not that. Hundley overthinks things or gets befuddled by the pressure I believe. It is mental. It probably doesn’t show up in practice if so. He does well away from home and he does well on scripted drives and in no huddle (no think) environments. Otherwise, despite a good arm, he tends to wobble passes, lose accuracy or just turn into a deer in the headlights.
The question for me (and any QB needy team) is whether he will always be that or will more game experience settle him down. One answer screams career backup and the other suggests real
Potential. I hope some team reckons a decent draft pick is worth the risk that it is the former. Given some of the high drafted QBs in recent years, it might be.
Coldworld
December 11, 2017 at 05:32 pm
A QB with a 3 something yard average pass length is a game manager at best. Yet Hundley is not that. Hundley overthinks things or gets befuddled by the pressure I believe. It is mental. It probably doesn’t show up in practice if so. He does well away from home and he does well on scripted drives and in no huddle (no think) environments. Otherwise, despite a good arm, he tends to wobble passes, lose accuracy or just turn into a deer in the headlights.
The question for me (and any QB needy team) is whether he will always be that or will more game experience settle him down. One answer screams career backup and the other suggests real
Potential. I hope some team reckons a decent draft pick is worth the risk that it is the former. Given some of the high drafted QBs in recent years, it might be.
pacman
December 11, 2017 at 11:13 am
The only good pass play Hundley made was the back shoulder to Adams TD. Though he did find Williams wide open, the replay showed he hesitated . The rest were dump offs and short passes.
I'm just not going to get excited by beating bad teams in overtime.
So the takeaway is that Hundley might be kept even though he is not a good qb.
And the other takeaway is that our D is so injured and isn't good enough anyways to beat a good team when we can barely contain bad teams.
Lastly, it seems that Cleveland's coaching issues are worse than ours.
al bundy
December 11, 2017 at 12:16 pm
Packers did not give up. They took what Cleveland gave them on offense. Cleveland is a horrible team. They are worse than their record.
Dumb people make dumb mistakes and this team is full of them.
Shocked that with all the low first, second and third round picks over the past few years this is is NOT one QB away from greatness. They need a total rebuild.
Glad the pack won this would have been very embarassing, maybe even costing Capers a pay check.
fastmoving
December 11, 2017 at 12:23 pm
how can you be worse than 0:13????? actually they a lot better than that. one or two years from know, with a little bit of luck, they could be a playoff team......
Doug Niemczynski
December 11, 2017 at 07:46 pm
Clevelands offense was only scoring 14 pts per GAME !!!
The run det is 6th
Pass def 17th
Thst 0_13 teams defense is better than ours and most defenses.
Bure9620
December 11, 2017 at 12:16 pm
My takeaway from the game is that my plane ticket to Charlotte is not a total waste of $!!! As we are still technically alive.
I hope A rod is cleared. I think we could give Carolina a run.
fastmoving
December 11, 2017 at 12:19 pm
AR is back and he should. Even our docs are all for it. no greater risk than always for an QB. hold him out makes no sense at all. a lot of guys wait always for a tomorrow thats never coming.
if they win out they will be in. but in know that its far from a given they will.
I hope if the can beat CAR they will pick up some speed and thats all you looking for that time of the year.
the fire everyone stuff is just crazy and completly useless for this season.
DC will maybe retire and MM depends a lot how he gets along with AR. TT is not so bad and you can t be sure the next one is better.
stockholder
December 11, 2017 at 12:22 pm
This team does not believe in their own talent. That MM has become to close to his coaches to criticize them, or fire them. It's time Capers stops the train wreck. I saw no pass rush. The veterans were fat and lazy sunday. Double teams were obvious. And no one was stepping up. The doubting was obvious. Hundley shocked this team. He wanted to win. It showed. And others got on board. Sharper passes outside. More pocket awareness, I'm the leader. If we go back, the improvement is night and day. It's time Capers asks that of his safeties. They are the QBs of the defense. They can turn any game around. Dix, and Jones should be the starting safeties! It's time to put the speed in the backfield. And I would not stop there. Move Perry back and forth,(LDE), Daniels, Clarke, and Lowrey RDE, should be the line. Mathews, Martinez, and Biegel should be the LBs. The rookie Biegel is learning how to play. The coaching is over people. It's time the talent shows up.
Since'61
December 11, 2017 at 12:34 pm
My takeaway is that the Packers, even with the return of AR, need to play much better if they are to win their upcoming games against the Panthers and the Viqueens.
After having the chance to see my tape of the game MM called a really strong game. In fact if the OL and Hundley had executed more effectively the Packers could have ended that game by the 3rd quarter. They left a lot of yards on the field yesterday. On the positive side Jamaal Williams is looking better every week. He can be a solid steady back for the Packers.
In spite of that if AR returns the offense will be fine. It's the defense that still concerns me about this team. We need to generate a pass rush and we need to tackle better. At this point of the season we can't expect any help for the CB corp so someone needs to step up and play better or playing against the Panthers and Vikings WR corps is going to be ugly. Who's going to stop Thielan and Diggs when we play the Viqueens?
In any case, it was good to see the Packers never give up yesterday and maybe things will break the Packers way over the next 3 weeks. We can only control the games we play and hope for a bunch of help. Thanks, Since '61
CAG123
December 11, 2017 at 12:32 pm
I’m sorry but I’m not on the lets fire MM wagon this team doesn’t and hasn’t quit on him and that has to account for something Capers on the other hand needs to go the Packers defensively just aren’t getting the best out of their players and it’s why we see DBs thrive elsewhere because Capers isn’t playing to their strengths the fact that we have 3 CBs that are more suited for press man coverage yet we have them playing zone baffles me besides Randall, King and House don’t have the short area quickness to break on the ball in time. The Packers need a new scheme defensively no more gadgety packages now the Packers are in a tough spot because if Capers goes who takes his place? DC’s don’t necessarily leave to become DCs elsewhere unless they’ve had multiple head coaching failures or are old like Wade Phillips.
Doug Niemczynski
December 11, 2017 at 07:35 pm
I have never had a problem with his coaching. .maybe less than 5% of the time i question a play. However, for the life of me i can't figure out why he stays witg that dufus dom rotten crappers. He should have been gone 5_6 years ago.
Doug Niemczynski
December 11, 2017 at 07:41 pm
Go get adam zimmer lb coach for the vikings...he wants to be a Def. Coordinator. .i would give him a shot....we just cannot waste another year with dumb crappers! !!!!! Get rid ilof the BUM once and for all .....aren't we sick of saying the same madness every year. ..If MM keeps dom capers then we have no choice but ti fire Mike Mcarthy!!
Roadrunner23
December 11, 2017 at 12:43 pm
*McCarthy always seems to have his teams ready to compete especially when their backs are against the wall
*Capers Defensive schemes are way too predictable, his players don't seem to buy in, FIRE CAPERS!
*Davis showed up BIG as a return man, that should keep the doubters at bay for awhile, i've always liked this kid
*Hundley plays much better in no huddle, read option, simplified offensive scheme, kinda like college, go figure.
This is what us arm chair QB's have been saying all along. McCarthy is starting to figure that out, finally.
*Jamaal Williams is the real deal as an all around workhorse RB!
*Davante Adams is going to get PAID $$, so which WR is the odd man out?
*Fackrell, Mathews, Randall, Daniels, Martinez, Jones all had excellent games, some of the other Defenders not so much.
*Can the Packers please get a legit Tight End or two this off-season, please!
*Ahmad Brooks looks slow and washed up
*Two overtime wins in a row! Yes, the Packers live to fight another day!
dobber
December 11, 2017 at 01:07 pm
"*Ahmad Brooks looks slow and washed up"
This has been particularly disappointing for me. For someone who looked like a really solid, under-the-radar signing, and as someone who has been mostly healthy throughout his career, he's had trouble staying out of the training room and making an impact on the field. I'd hoped he'd give a thin OLB group some flexibility, but he's contributed next to nothing.
SpudRapids
December 11, 2017 at 01:33 pm
Packers are 7-2 this season when Ahmad Brooks plays
dobber
December 11, 2017 at 01:59 pm
Thanks, Spud. I didn't know that. I wonder what his PFF rating looks like?
Whatever the case, he only played 33 (about 2/3) of the defensive snaps yesterday even with Perry sitting. Fackrell played almost an equal number. It will help to get Perry back to make this OLB group a little more flexible, but I can't help but wonder what's up with Brooks.
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2017/12/11/16761534/pa...
stockholder
December 11, 2017 at 01:47 pm
Right! He was Slow this game. Biegel looked much better. So whats his problem? He was happy when they signed him, and was quicker off the snap.
Coldworld
December 11, 2017 at 05:38 pm
I believe Brooks was playing banged up due to the lack of Perry. Not sure what the Biegel love is based on. Defensively he hasn’t done much of anything yet. Fackrell has been making more impact. I am not saying Biegel won’t become an impact player, but right now Brooks has, when reasonably healthy, been the third best OLB by some way. That is, I think, what he was signed to be?
Doug Niemczynski
December 11, 2017 at 07:31 pm
Randall Cobb is earning 12 million dollars
Davantr is earning 1.7 million obviously this has to be flip flopped.
Roadrunner23
December 11, 2017 at 05:50 pm
Biegel like Abbrederus is a "try hard" blue collar Wisconsin kid, can't help but root for that. I hope he turns out to be the real deal but so far J.J. Watt looks like he would have been the better pick. But who knows? Three years from now Biegel could be "all dat and a bag o' chips" at least we all hope so.
Roadrunner23
December 11, 2017 at 05:59 pm
It's like when the Packers took A.J. Hawk at #5 in the first round i think it was and the Vikings took a Linebacker much later (can't think of his name). The Vikings guy turned out much better, we just never know until a few years down the road I guess. The knock on Watt was he had a bad knee or something, he looks pretty good now.
Doug Niemczynski
December 11, 2017 at 07:26 pm
In the packers defense:
I will say though that the Cleveland defense is 6th in the run and 17th in the pass.
There only problem is that Cleveland offense was only scoring 14 points per game..you are not going to win any games scoring that piddly amount of points.
Return of Josh Gordon was huge ..he is just like a julio jones.
Ustabeayooper
December 12, 2017 at 05:49 am
The Vikings took Chad Greenway after Hawk. Both players were in the league over 10 years. Fans don't realize that the evolution of the passing game over Hawks and Greenway's time put a premium on coverage of running backs. This was not Hawk's strength. That being said,his durability was a definite plus.He was a part of a SB team unlike Greenway. He was a good consistent player.